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/sci/ - Science & Math


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File: 335 KB, 2048x1536, cns.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10422332 No.10422332 [Reply] [Original]

this is your true form.

the rest is just attachments

>> No.10422348

Your beautiful

>> No.10422353

While I agree with your point that your body is just like your "car" you control it and use it to go to destinations but not really a part of you. I think you are even too conservative.

I would go one step further and say that you also aren't your nerves or even your neurons but the information encoded within the neurons and nerves. If you could somehow extract those and run it on any other substance or hardware it would still be you.

So what you've shown is just 1 layer deeper but still not the condensed "true form" of what is you. This is like showing an AI the server he is running on and telling him he is that hardware.

>> No.10422355

>>10422332
how painfully reductionist
read a book and shut up nigger

>> No.10422378

>>10422353
And what is that information? Your memories?

>> No.10422381

>>10422332
>CNS
>No pns

>> No.10422385

>>10422332
SO ANDROSS, YOU'VE SHOWN YOUR TRUE FORM

>> No.10422459

>>10422332
But where is the soul?

>> No.10422469
File: 648 KB, 1000x1000, a496a63d01e47c97316ce4b5578da3cb.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10422469

>>10422385
>tfw no wolf bf
Come on He Jiankui, what are you waiting for?

>> No.10422470

without those "attachments" you would not survive therefore they are also part of you

>> No.10422472

>>10422459
just look inside of your heart bro :)

>> No.10422475

>>10422459
Soul is in the connections of your mind.

>> No.10422483
File: 785 KB, 1200x838, 1528025015748.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10422483

>>10422472
>>10422475

>> No.10422499

>>10422332
To be fair, this is also just an attachment for pathways

>> No.10422524

>>10422332
Actually the brain is just an attachment for you genitalia. Everything else is useless without them.

>> No.10422527

>>10422332
There is no rest, I can't build muscle

>> No.10422530

I remember when I saw this in person and had the same realization. Legitimately had a depersonalization experience.

>> No.10422535

>>10422378
your "programming" which is encoded within your neurons and the connection between them. It includes memory of course.

>> No.10422536

>>10422535
What is exactly that programming? Your personality/mindset? The way you interpret reality?

>> No.10422544

>>10422536
All of that combined. If you used hardcore hallucinogenic drugs like DMT you'd find out that the way you interpret reality and your personality/mindset are all just constructs that you can easily change by changing how your brain works. So it's encoded into your brain as well and could technically be deciphered and "run" on any other thing capable of doing so.

>> No.10422553

>>10422353
That will not be you. It will be your copy in another body.

>> No.10422559

>>10422469
>worshiping and serving the creature more than the creator
Enjoy hell.

>> No.10422561

>>10422353
Just the opposite. Not only are you not reducible to pure information, you aren't reducible to only neurons. Your being extends out into your body and the physical world in a way that cannot be disentangled.

>> No.10422562

>>10422553
Depends on how you switch.

If you bump your head against something you lose between 10,000-1,000,000 neurons. Yet you still consider yourself the same person.

If you connect your brain to a computer while staying conscious and awake and slowly and gradually scan 1 neuron and simulate it within the computer while the digital neuron replaces the biological one in function. You could slowly replace your neurons one by one while they are replacing the biological functions one by one.

After a while you'll be 50% biological 50% digital but you won't notice because you were conscious during the entire transfer period and the digital neurons still communicate and react the exact same way to the biological neurons so you don't even notice the transition.

After a while you'll be 100% digital but you never noticed a transition between when you started with 1 neuron being destroyed and immediately simulated to 100% of your brain being digital.

The break of consciousness is what makes the copy different from you. If you do it gradually while maintaining conscious and staying connected you actually transfer your actual consciousness towards the digital medium.

>> No.10422578

>>10422562
I have to think that people who talk like this haven't given the question any serious thought, because it becomes clear so quickly that you're misunderstanding things.

Imagine there's an ongoing rainstorm. I take my super computer and start simulating rain drops one at a time, removing the corresponding raindrops as I do so. By the end, would you say that the rainstorm had moved into the computer? Or would you say I had recorded the storm and destroyed it?

Would anyone claim that a weather simulation really is a hurricane? Why do they claim this about humans?

>> No.10422588

>>10422578
First you need to realize that your consciousness is an illusion anyway. So you only have to consider that the continuity of it is what makes you consider it to be yourself. Every time you change the makeup of your brain such as bumping your head or going to sleep you technically wake up as someone else that just convinces itself it is you due to its memories.

If you copy yourself to a digital version and see that digital version you'd probably consider it a copy since there is a break from your experience and the digital experience. However if you never notice a break of consciousness and slowly become digital over time due to your neurons being replaced one by one while they are still running and communicating with each other you will never notice a difference and in fact "feel" like you've never even changed it'd be just like you reading this post for 1 minute and when you started reading your brain was a certain way and after you finished reading this your brain has changed and weakened some neural connections. Doesn't mean you are different because you never noticed a break in consciousness. Same from going biological to digital. If it happens gradually and while you are awake you won't notice any breaks and consider it yourself by the end of it. I.E. the (You) reading this right now would be digital.

>> No.10422595

Nope, I actually have an immortal soul you NPC cuck.

>> No.10422599

>>10422588
>consciousness is an illusion
Is there a more retarded idea than this? Consciousness obviously exists, to define it as an illusion still defines it as consciousness. If you have the illusion of being self aware you're still self aware. It's like saying somebody on drugs isn't seeing things because they are illusions. It's true the illusions are not physical manifestations, but he IS seeing things. Consciousness is the same way.

>> No.10422601

>>10422588
Every time you bump your head you're technically someone else, what nonsense meaning of self do you have where that's true? And yet you think I'm the one whose perception of self is mistaken.

You seem very confident that neurons could be replaced with digital components. I'm not questioning that you could simulate a neuron, but a simulation of a neuron isn't a neuron. Again, no one would think that a cluster of computers simulating a rainstorm is actually a rainstorm. Neurons aren't digital themselves, there should be no confusion here.

The fantasy you're describing is a confused sci fi story. It's like saying "you would continuously turn into a wooden chair, but you would *feel* the same the entire time." It's completely meaningless.

>> No.10422612

>>10422601
You don't have to simulate a neuron you could go even a couple of steps further and simulate the individual proteines that make up the neurons. Or the individual atoms and their interactions of the neurons.

You could simulate it as deeply as possible until it fits your definition of "real neuron" I didn't post a timeframe just that it could be done on a technical level.

>> No.10422615

nope, glands play a very big role in neurochemical processes.

you cant hook this up to a computer and get a human sorry.

>> No.10422616

>>10422470
none of us survive bro

>> No.10422632

>>10422553
>>10422561
>>10422578
>>10422595
>>10422599
>>10422601
Think of it like this. Please tell me where you think the cut-off point is where you stop to be "you"
>You lose an arm in an accident and get a prosthetic
>You lose your hearing because of an explosion near you and need a device connected to your brain to hear again
>You burn your entire body and your brain and nervous system gets extracted from your burned body and gets translated into a machine body
>You damage the small part of your brain that regulates your hearing and replace it with a digital chip that processes sounds and sends it to your prefrontal cortex to evaluate it like the old piece of brain did
>The pieces of your brain that are responsible for motor functions such as regulating hormones, muscle memory and regulating your physical body in any way gets removed because you have a completely mechanical body now and a chip replaces that function and is connected to your prefrontal cortex instead
>The part of your brain that regulates vision, smell, touch, taste and all other sensory imput all get removed and replaced by chips that regulate them in the mechanical body and send it to your prefrontal cortex.
>The parts of your prefrontal cortex that regulates emotions and memories get replaced by digital regulators and memory modules

Now all pieces of your body have been replaced that had singular purposes. Does that mean that the absolute small pea-sized piece of your prefrontal cortex that is the only brain matter remaining after all the other basic functions of your brain that had nothing to do with your thinking/conscious process were removed is "you" or your consciousness?

There is no objective place where "you" ends. Everyone will have another answer. My religious grandmother believes people that lose their arm have incomplete souls for example because she is Jehovas Witness. Most people consider only their brains to be themselves but people can function after a lobotomy as well.

>> No.10422654

>>10422332
you could say the same about consciousness and the body being its attachment.. it depends what level of analysis you want to sink to. the real question is whether or not consciousness is local to the brain..?

>> No.10422656

>>10422332
>the rest is just attachments
Right, blood is a gimmick

>> No.10422680

>>10422654
>the real question is whether or not consciousness is local to the brain..
it is faggot stop
back to /x/

>> No.10422691

>>10422680
I don't think he means it in an /x/ way but more like "wether consciousness can exist outside of a biological brain such as emulated on computer hardware"

>> No.10422716

>>10422632
>You lose an arm in an accident
right there

>> No.10422727
File: 678 KB, 1200x758, singularity pepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10422727

>>10422562
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WKqO16mkGE

>> No.10422730
File: 32 KB, 636x773, NPC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10422730

>>10422588
Found the P-zombie

>> No.10422738

tss, how limited. You are not even only your body, you are your entire fate and position in the universe.

>> No.10422769

>>10422738
>fate
We don't know if the universe is deterministic in nature.

>> No.10422773

>>10422332
You're missing all the nerves in your gut

>> No.10422791

>>10422773
Also the hormones in your blood that go through the blood-brain barrier and influence thoughts.

However the central nervous system is still what is essentially "you".

>> No.10422816

>>10422544
Have you tried DMT?

>> No.10422920

>>10422632
Ship of theseus fag spotted

>> No.10423026

>>10422348
fpbp

>> No.10423061

>>10422691
It can only if that computer hardware is exactly like the neurons in the brain, but we all know that would be impossible for years to come. Just the fact that the only advanced technology comparable to the brain is a computer goes to show you how far behind we are. How biology managed to evolve such complexity is insane especially with how energy efficient it is.

>> No.10423073

>>10422562
>>10422601
Is this true what the fuck? Bumping your head can't be that impacting can it?

>> No.10423294

>>10423061
The brain is a piece of shit of machine. It can go to shit with little things and never come back to normal leaving the person all his life tormented with weird mental disorders that doesn't allow you to live a normal life. Also, once your mindset is formed with the influences that you get during your childhood and adolescence that is who you are for the rest of your life whether you like it or not.

>> No.10423340

>>10422332
That is one way to go, and soon you will find that you uave reduced yourself to nothing, or you could go the other way, realize that you are not only all your body, but your surrounding are a part of you as well because they affect your thinking and behavior. At the end of that path you find that you are everything, and everything is you.

>> No.10423354

>>10423340
>You are a product of your environment.

How are you so wise?

>> No.10423355

>>10422562
Yeah, but at what pace should you replace neurons ? One at a time ? 1000000 at a time ? What tells you you're replacing neurons to fast ? Don't tell me you'll notice it, because by definition, the brain is replaced by an exact replica of itself, so you would act the exact same whether you are actually replaced or not.
So, if replacing your brain one neuron at a time or all at once results in the exact same thing, why should we actually bother with such a complicated procedure ?

>> No.10423450

I think this looks cool as fuck

>> No.10423633

>>10422332
How many years before someone can cut a person like this and put them in vat of nutrition solution allowing them to continue to live?

>the answer will shock you

>> No.10423825

>>10422588
the self is always in a state of flux, it is the witness which is unchanging.

>> No.10423862

>>10422544
Cringe

>> No.10423875

>>10422524
Yes but the genitalia aren't you. You're an attachment meant for the furthering of the genitalia's goals.

>> No.10423880

>>10422588
>Consciousness is an illusion
Stopped right there

>> No.10423900
File: 165 KB, 2640x2200, so.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10423900

>>10422332
So? The other stuff is still useful. Why does it matter?

>> No.10423905

>>10422459
pineal gland

>> No.10423920

>>10422578

Not that guy but take this idea a step further to help explain. Make 1000 copies.

When do the "yous" diverge from the original you? There will be 1001 entities based off of "you" at some point in time which can't possibly live the same life. Each individual becomes a permutation of the original and the original is no more or less the same person he was than the other 1000.

Now give half of the copies amnesia, or some other memory loss. What happens to self identity? It will only exist in the minds of the people that knew them.

We are just memories.

>> No.10423927
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10423927

>>10422588
Consciousness is the least illusory thought
>falling for scientism
The universe if made out of thoughts, the mental universe gives way to the physical
It's all Mathematical meaning and form

>> No.10423933
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10423933

>>10423905
More accurately your pineal gland uses DMT's piezoluminescent properties to translate between the electrical signals used by your physical body and the virtual photon flux that makes up your astral body.

>> No.10423940

I can't build muscle. I look like the op

>> No.10424004

>>10422332
But if neurons always grow, how does this work?

>> No.10424095

>>10422562
What if instead of replacing each neuron with blips and bloops you do this same process but replace them with actual neurons that are biologically identical copies grown in culture or something? Are you the pile of neurons that exists inside of the skull, the pile of neurons in the biohazard bag, or both? Are you 100% sure that this process never results in a break of consciousness? Are people who have their corpus callosum split two people inside of one skull?

>> No.10424097

Ogosh

>> No.10424098

>>10422348
Kek

>> No.10424100

Kek

>> No.10424105

>>10423073
Why do you think boxers and soccer players that bounce balls using their heads usually have permanent brain damage? Bumping your head kills countless neurons.
>>10422816
Of course.

>> No.10424132

>>10422332
i would say we are all built around our gut

>> No.10424244

>>10424105
Can you tell your experience? Hod did it change your mind?

>> No.10424325

>>10422353
In principle yes, but your self might be inextricably linked to your body. Human brains don't distinguish between hardware and software. It's all in the wiring.

>> No.10424332

>>10424132
is gut more important than brain?

>> No.10424349

>>10423875
yes, isn't that annoying?
I mean you kinda are you DNA but you're also like 90% life experience.

Also I think it's interesting how the brain tries to figure out ways to preserve itself (like with head transplants) but leaves the genitalia behind.

In theory you can still "reproduce", just not in the classical way.

>> No.10424351

>>10424332
No, but the gut has neurons. As do the heart, genitalia, etc. Even if you buy OP's reasoning, it's not even the whole nervous system in that exhibit case.

>> No.10424521

>>10422332
If only you knew how bad things really are

>> No.10424907

>>10423633
Can probably be done already but it’s fucking cruelty to even attempt

>> No.10424919
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10424919

>>10422332
Yes
But that isn't even my final form

>> No.10425159

>>10422332
You're not even a bio undergrad are you

>> No.10425181

>>10424351
People live with artificial heart or without genitalia and they are not any less of a person at all. You do not necessarily need a peripheral nervous system, central nervous system is where the consciousness is located.

>> No.10425189

Dualist morons shitting up this thread
>It's okay if you "have" a fat body, that's not the real you
also
>>10422483
What does this mean

>> No.10425224

>>10422727
>Asks questions and stages theories only to either call them stupid with no explanation or to nonsensically meander around saying completely unbacked statements like "we're all in heaven and hell at the same time"

Wow, what a fucking debunk. I would call this a waste of 20 minutes, but I'm certain this shirtless pedant would tell me that time isn't real or some such horseshit. The next time I ever want to see the unfortunate face of this weebish, take-the-whatever-pill, armchair philosopher babyman is on the news after he goes on his inevitable shooting spree turned suicide.

>> No.10425312

>>10424351
The fuck? They have neurons as in the nervous system or something else? What do the neurons at those places do as opposed to the ones we know and use?

>> No.10425686

>>10422332
if it were alive that'd be the most painful experience imaginable

>> No.10425692

>>10425686
Pain is just a chemical in the brain.

>> No.10425744

If you were a consciousness in a computer an AI could inflict perfect and absolute torture to you and could make the experience last for subjective eternity haha

>> No.10425750

>>10425744
And nobody would notice haha

>> No.10425759

>>10422353
>If you could somehow extract those and run it on any other substance or hardware it would still be you.
Utter nonsense; it's not the information, it's the process itself.

If someone stored your connectome in perfect resolution up to the moment of your death and then perfectly reconstructed or simulated your brain but a moment later it wouldn't be you.
It'd be a person fundamentally identical to you from an outside perspective; no one else could tell the difference, and the reconstructed you might not even realize it.

But you're dead. Your subjective experience, your continuity, is ended. There's no jump to that other brain, it's a whole new consciousness, a whole new mind. Game Over.

>> No.10425765

>>10425744
Imagine that this actually happens in a self contained virtual space, it makes sure absolutely nobody notices and after one year of torture the AI stops and gives you and ITSELF a complete memory wipe, deleting all evidence of this happening. Did the torture happened at all?

>> No.10425771

>>10422332
missing the genome and microbiome and environment itself, very low iq post
>>10422535
nothing is encoded in neurons

>> No.10425777

>>10425759
there is no difference
image you are a simple form of life and all your cells are divided to create two new entities:
which of them is you?
the percieved continuity is a lie and information is all that matters

>> No.10425779

>>10422588
>First you need to realize that your consciousness is an illusion anyway.
that's the only thing you know exists because it is you. chances are that reality as you know it is a illusion

>> No.10425781

>>10422727
report that stupid fuck shilling his retarded videos here

>> No.10425785

>>10424907
reminds me of that guy who tried to kill himself, they brought him back and now is vegetable for the rest of his life.

>> No.10425968

>>10425777
Are you denying that subjective experience does not exist? Because it obviously fucking does.

Thought experiment; someone copies you down to the quark instantaneously with no effect to you; your clone is completely identical to you in every way. Are you both you and your clone?
Obviously fucking not; you're looking out from your own eyes at something that is indistinguishable from you but is still distinct.

>>10425777
>which of them is you?
Neither; I'm dead. They just perceive themselves to be me.

>> No.10426642

>>10425785
Source? I'm interested.

>> No.10426672

>>10425759
What makes you think there actually is a continuity ? How can you be so sure you're the same person as you from 1 day ago, or even 1 second ago ? You said yourself you might not even realize you changed

>> No.10426684

>>10425968
No we are getting into Ship of Theseus territory. Imagine that instead of creating a copy, someone replaces your neurons or neural functions gradually with artificial ones. Continuity of experience is kept intact and there is only one entity all throughout the process. Would that be subjectively you? Surely it would.

>> No.10426695

>>10426642
no idea. was some newspaper article posted on 4chan

>> No.10427422
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10427422

>>10425759

>game over

Actually cringed.

>> No.10427428

>all these pseudo intellectuals thinking they’ve got the nature of conciousness all figured out

Cataysmically big yikes. Sometimes you just have to say: I don’t know.

>> No.10427443

>>10427428
>I have it figured out more!

>> No.10427447

>We're meat mecha

mite b cool

>> No.10427456

>>10427428
But we do know. It’s ions.

>> No.10427710

>>10427428

>Anon literally states “I don’t know”

>Absolutely based feral retard misinterprets anon despite explicit text.

>> No.10427713

>>10427456

>Humans actually knowing anything

>> No.10427731

The difference between a Chad and a non-Chad (incel) is just a few mm of neuron

>> No.10427734

>>10422332

Not true, you are implying all emotions and ideas are purely from your nervous system, when even something as trivial as gut bacteria influence our thinking.

"Brain Structure and Response to Emotional Stimuli as Related to Gut Microbial Profiles in Healthy Women."