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/lit/ - Literature

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9575647 No.9575647 [Reply] [Original]

Where exactly with the Greeks should I start?
Which books are the most useful foundation?

>> No.9575652

what do you mean books?

>> No.9575833

>>9575652
It's really not a hard question to understand sorry if my phrasing wasnt correct

>> No.9575839

you should start by defining what exactly it is that you are starting

>> No.9575847

>>9575839
As a young guy, I really just want to have a solid foundation from which to read books in the future

>> No.9575871

>>9575847
are the greeks a solid foundation?
what foundation did the greeks have?
who did the greeks start with? did the greeks start with the greeks?

what are you starting?

>> No.9575880

Plato's Republic
All of Aristophanes
Oidipus, Antigone
All of Homer
The lyrical poets, especially Sappho.
Should be a good start.

>> No.9575883

>>9575880
>Sappho

Woman detected.

>> No.9575885

>>9575880
Oh, and i forgot the Oresteia

>> No.9575888

>>9575883
Nah, nice try though. She was undoubtedly one of their greatest lyrical poets.
And that's from like, what, 3 whole poems we have of her?

>> No.9575893

>>9575888
>she

>> No.9575894

>>9575880
>>9575883
How can you guys remember these Greek names? They all sound so similar. I mean, Sappho doesn't even sound like a feminine name

>> No.9575895

>>9575893
I was considering going this angle too

>> No.9575907

>>9575652
>>9575839
>>9575871
whywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhy

why do they let toddlers on this board

>> No.9575910

>>9575894
It does kind of sound feminine, maybe not in english.
And i only named three names in my original post, and they sound nothing alike.
But i get what you're saying, it gets tricky remembering the difference between Aeschylus, Archilochus and Aristophanes

>> No.9575914

>>9575907
can you tell me what it is that we are "starting" when we "start" with the greeks?

>> No.9575915

>>9575914
Oh easy, this: >>9575880

>> No.9575917

>>9575910
Well, duh, that's because you don't speak the language. To someone who doesn't speak one word of English it's gonna be pretty hard telling Jane, Jenny and Jean apart too.

>> No.9575927

>>9575915
plato and aristophanes are way different from the other jank on the list, though!
i'm beginning to suspect that "start with the greeks" is just a silly meme that people regurgitate!

>> No.9575929

>>9575917
No, you're misunderstanding me. The way we say Sappho where i am from does sound feminine, so it's difficult for me to not have an association when i pronounce it in englisg, even when the difference is slight.

>> No.9575933

>>9575927
What do you mean different?
What kind of idiot wouldn't read Homer or Sofokles when starting with the greeks?

>> No.9575935
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9575935

>> No.9575938
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9575938

>> No.9575941

>>9575935
>>9575938
What do the colours of the lines mean?

>> No.9575945

>>9575933
what kind of idiot "starts" something without being able to articulate exactly what it is that he is starting?
when we "start" with the greeks, what is our endgame?

>> No.9575954

>>9575945
To get a foundation.

>> No.9575962

>>9575954
a foundation for what? foundations exist to be built upon, not just for their own sakes. what are you building??

>> No.9575966

>>9575962
An understanding of literature.
The same reason you would want to read the bible.

>> No.9575969

>>9575941
If you had started with the Greeks you would know the symbolism behind those colors you fucking fool

>> No.9575970

>Start with Iliad and Odyssey. You don't need to read Mythology, but instead just look up a god when you see their name, and eventually you'll know them.
>Hesiod (he's short)
>Read A Brief History of Ancient Greece her if you'd like. Again, not necessary.
>Read the Greek Tragedians. Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides.
Then...
>Aristophanes
>Herodotus
>Thucydides
>Plato (Complete Works, anon. Do not start with the Republic, and do not end with the Republic. Re-read him and re-read him)
>Aristotle (De Organan if you're dedicated, and then ethics, poetics, physics and metaphysics as required)

After that you should go back to the beginning and re-read, and then read some of the essays mentioned in these charts, and then read the fill-ins if you'd like (Sappho, Pre-socratics).


http://sonic.net/~rteeter/grtbloom.html#demo

>> No.9575973

>>9575966
>the bible
ah, there it is. i made you say it, tee hee :p

>> No.9575975

>>9575973
Gosh darn!

>> No.9575979

>>9575975
troled fuckin HARDD

>> No.9576022

Jesus christ I have never seen someone simultaneously asking about the Greeks while being so completely unprepared for reading the Greeks

What an embarrassing thread

>> No.9576049

>>9576022
>Be me
>Want to start reading lit the right way
>Discover I'm unprepared to build a foundation

Should I start with goodnight moon instead?

>> No.9576051

>>9575647
there is no useful foundation

>> No.9576053

>>9576049
Lurk a few greek threads before you start reading any Greeks. Within literally a week of (almost) daily threads you should know which writers matter, why they matter, and in (vaguely) what order you should read them.

>> No.9576083
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9576083

>>9576053
Or I could just ask and get a couple good charts instead of waiting a few weeks

>> No.9576091

>>9576083
The two charts are posted in literally every greek thread

>> No.9576095
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9576095

>>9576091
Including this Greek thread
I don't see the problem

>> No.9576139

>>9575969
But the colours contradict each other. I've read some of these and I still don't don't understand what the colours mean.

>> No.9576306
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9576306

>>9575938
>Iliad
>Preferred Translation: Pope

>> No.9576364

>>9575935
>>9575938
these need an update

>> No.9576367

the order is iliad, odyssey, then the aeniad?

>> No.9576375

>>9576306
What's wrong with Pope? Fagles is good but Pope has been used for hundreds of years

>> No.9576380

>>9576367
Yes, but the Aeneid is not Greek.

>> No.9576413

>>9576380
yeah i looked it up, Virgil is Roman master race. I just want to build on my pre-requisite reading for the Divine Comedy.

>> No.9576443

>>9576380
Which translation of the Aeneid is the best? Is the Dryden translation good? It's the only one I have.

>> No.9576541

>>9576364
They really don't. They firmly represent the core of all Greek lit, and frankly most people on lit won't get through those lists, let alone go beyond them.

>> No.9576705

>>9576375
USE FITZGERALD
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.9576716

>>9575647
1) go on craigslist
2)find a Greek man
3)get him to orate the Iliad and the Odyssea to you in a toga as the Gods intended
It is the only way.

>> No.9576719

If I just want to understand Greek philosophy, can I just watch the movies for Iliad/Odyssey to get the general idea? I'm not sure how reading those will help understand Plato and Aristotle more, especially since I won't be reading ancient Greek and will miss the musical aspect of the poems.

>> No.9576723

>>9576716
>implying modern Greeks can read Homer

>>9576719
Jesus, Homer can be read in like 4 days. Just fucking read him.

>> No.9576733

>>9576723
>Jesus, Homer can be read in like 4 days. Just fucking read him.

1000 pages is not something all of us can read quickly, especially when it's boring (I tried reading the Odyssey many years ago). Unfortunately I have a job.

>> No.9576734

>>9576723
>implying modern Greeks can read Homer
Most modern Greeks I have talked to, including my family members, say they can.

>Just fucking read him
But he has a point, he will be missing the important parts of the poem if he reads a translation. If he doensn't want to then there is no point in forcing himself.

>> No.9576737

>>9576733
It's poetry. It's not 1000 pages of Tolstoy with text covering the whole page. You can literally read it at double your normal rate for novels, if not faster.

>> No.9576740

>>9576734
Most modern English speakers can't read fucking Shakespeare; I don't believe those fucking Greeks for a second.

>he will be missing the important parts of the poem if he reads a translation
kys

>> No.9576750

>>9576740
>Most modern English speakers can't read fucking Shakespeare
This is an exaggeration. You can read Shakespeare after a bit of puzzling out and patience. Same with Middle English.

>I don't believe those fucking Greeks for a second
Why not? If they sit down and puzzle it out then what fucking reason do they have to lie to you?

>kys
But he said his main concern was that he won't get the musical tone of the text, so here the translation meme makes sense. If he justs needs the materials to understand Athenian philosophy, why would he need to read the Illiad?

>> No.9576755

>>9576750
>If he justs needs the materials to understand Athenian philosophy, why would he need to read the Illiad?

This. I don't get the meme that reading the Odyssey somehow prepares you for understanding Apology in any way. It's literally just an autism fueled progression chart.

>> No.9576815

>>9576723
Audiobooks for the Iliad are about 14 hours, and the Odyssey is 11, it's not that much because it's poetry.
By comparison a book like Infinite Meme, which is about 1000 large and print filled pages is nearly 70 hours in audio.
It's also easy to read, it flows well and is straightforward.

>> No.9576821

oops.
>>9576733
Meant this
>>9576815
for you, also it isn't boring shit lord, they are two of the greatest adventures ever told.

>> No.9577545

>>9575969
if i had started with the greeks i wouldn't need this guide in the first place

>> No.9577568

>>9575647
what is this even an illustration of

do people just get bored and draw their buddies from the local norwegian fish market as ape people riding polar bear people

who is this outsider artist and why do they keep doing it

>> No.9577574

>>9575880
I wish more people read Aristophanes on this board. It'd be nice to discuss him sometime.

>> No.9578524

>>9577574
>>I wish more people read on this board
ftfy.

>> No.9578611

>>9578524
>read a few pages of book
>pause to check if new responses to /lit/ thread
>start browsing the catalog
>check email
>read 5 more pages
>repeat

Help

>> No.9578618

>>9578611
turn pc off
throw phone away from arms length

>> No.9578620

>>9577568
it is from a book about the future and that's the only thing I remember about it

>> No.9578700

>>9575927
>!

No! It would just be so, like, mean!
Can't be true

>> No.9578717

>>9578700
>!
;p

>> No.9579228

>>9578618
more like arms length + 1 inch (including stretchiness)

>> No.9579235

>>9579228
valid point i must admit