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/lit/ - Literature


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7501388 No.7501388 [Reply] [Original]

Does language shape the way we think or does the way we think shape language

>> No.7501396

language doesn't shape shit, but it does lead to shitty things like the way german philosophers are always on about "becoming" which just sounds gay in english, also failed uprisings like france 1968 or germany 1922 being called "revolutions" is stupid, in english a revolution is only a revolution if it's permanent, otherwise it's just a failed uprising

>> No.7501409

>language shape the way we think
this one

>> No.7501482

>>7501388
Language shapes the way we think. Our thoughts are bound to the symbols and words we know(most of us).

>> No.7501485

Neither and both.

>> No.7501493

>>7501482
language changes to match the way we think, otherwise we wouldn't have words like shitposting etc. linguists already reached consensus on this ages ago but yall on some pleb so naturally u didnt hear abt it

>> No.7501496

>>7501493
What is 'the way we think'?

>> No.7501497

>>7501388
It shapes the way we think.

That's why there is a comparatively small amount of literature in the Eastern Hemnisphere.

>> No.7501507
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7501507

זה גאוני אחי..
מיינדפאק רציני
תחת מפחיד

>> No.7501513

>>7501493
What you are saying is wrong, but I don't feel like providing sources or anything, so feel free to assume that you are right.

>> No.7501533

>>7501496
Not him, but I'd say the key word is cultural focus. When a thing plays an important role in a culture, it'll start dividing that thing into different categories based on secondary, tertiary, etc. properties, and over a few generations the distinguations will become ingrained in the language. A good example would be schadenfreude, which is feeling pleasure from watching someone elses pain, or how eskimo languages have seperate words for different kinds of snow. You would be able to make the same distinctions in another language simply by using more words, but it's not something people are brought up to think, so it may not come easily to them. Different cultures, and consequently different languages favor different thoughts, but I'd argue that within any reasonably developed language any idea is expressible, and any thought thinkable.

>> No.7501549
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7501549

>>7501485
Underrated post.

>> No.7501552

>>7501513
stay pleb, wronglord

>> No.7501568

>>7501549
The distinction here isn't between order/chaos but two different ideas of order.

>> No.7502336

>>7501485
this

>> No.7502345

>>7501388

Кaждый язык являeтcя oтpaжeниeм тoгo, чтo вaжнo люядм, гoвopящим нa нeм.

>> No.7502390

>>7501549
>chaos
no that is just autism/STEM

>> No.7502561

>>7501568
>>7502390
>they don't understand entropy
laughinggirls.png

>> No.7502670

The two affect one another.

Any undergraduate linguist will tell you that

>> No.7502678

>>7502670
Example:

Russians being able to distinguish between colors of blue more quickly than Americans due to having more words for varying shades of blue. This is an example of language shaping thought.

The Eskimos have like 90 words for different types of snow. They needed these words to distinguish their surroundings. This is an example of thought changing language.

Every single person in this thread is a fucking pleb.

Merry Christmas plebs.

>> No.7502694

>>7502678
2/10

>> No.7502698

>>7501493

The word shitposting is a stroke of the genius penis, just like the creation of any new wordings. A new wording leaves the regular thought patterns behind that govern regular, hemmed-in thought.

>> No.7502702

>>7502678
>The Eskimos have like 90 words for different types of snow. They needed these words to distinguish their surroundings. This is an example of thought changing language.

Myth perpetuated by inuit morphology, they have just as many words for "snow" as most of us are used to.

Also, I dont know what you mean by "distinguishing between different shades of blue". As a speaker of Russian I dont see them as shades, cиний and гoлyбoй are just separate from one another. Can English speakers identify red, orange, and yellow faster than Hopi speakers because words for all these colors exist in English? I doubt it but I'll look at any research you're aware of

>> No.7502704

>>7502694
Not b8 m8

Blue color:
http://pnas.org/content/104/19/7780.full

Snow:
https://www.princeton.edu/~browning/snow.html

Why do I even come here anymore

>> No.7502708

>>7502702
See
>>7502704

Goddamn motherfucking plebs shitting up my /lit/. On Christmas, no less.

>> No.7502713

>>7501493
>language changes to match the way we think, otherwise we wouldn't have words like shitposting etc

Wrong. We call it shit posting because we identify the word shit with feces, something "shitty".

We're so controlled by language that we couldn't even think of a new word, we just stitched two existing words together ass to mouth like the human centipede

>> No.7502718

>>7502704

>lexeme
>calls it a word
>calls me a pleb

I hope things get better for you

>> No.7502719

Language creates reality. Asians cannot see the color yellow because their language lacks a word for yellow. It literally does not exist for them. Christians live in an alternate universe where God is real and watches you masturbate.

>> No.7502725
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7502725

>>7502719

>> No.7502726

>>7502702
Even if those examples aren't true, can't you just plug in any other real example and his point is correct?

If you're trying to get the number 10 and you add 4+7=10, you came to that conclusion incorrectly, but the conclusion is correct.

>> No.7502727

>>7502718
Oh wow. I was just trying to make a point of how thought changes language before your autism levels went wild.

Clearly, their different perceptions of and experiences with snow affects how their words are constructed, as evidenced by the study. While, okay, they may not have 'like 90 words' for snow, I was exaggerating to make a point. I thought that was obvious. Does the broad concept still allude you, or should I go into detail on how *thought* affects *language*?

>> No.7502760

>>7502727
>before your autism levels went wild.
Whoa dawg

>Clearly, their different perceptions of and experiences with snow affects how their words are constructed, as evidenced by the study
Not arguing that

All I ever said was the 90 words for snow thing is a common myth. If you were just "exaggerating" then okay, but in my opinion knowing why that statement is false is important to the understanding of how inuit and other languages are shaped by their environments. I speak three languages so I think I get your broad concept my man

>> No.7502761

>>7502727
I get it. Don't worry about him, just make love to me

>> No.7502770

>>7502719
sounds like heaven if you're an exhibitionist

also
>linguistic relativity
>2015
i know you're all illiterate retards who believe in jebus, but c'mon

>> No.7502772

>>7502760
>>7502761
Nope, it's too late. Now I'm going to have to trace your IPs, track you down, and forcefeed you both snow until your gums bleed. I won't stop until you can both recite every single word for snow in every language and, even then, after you've done what I've asked, I still won't let you go.

You picked a losing fight this Christmas. I do not envy your lives.

>> No.7502776

>>7502772
Please track me down too

I need help to break out of prison and if snow is the price I will pay in blood

>> No.7502777

>>7502772

I want an inuktitut translation of the "what the fuck did you just say about me" pasta so badly right now

>> No.7502786

>>7502777
>>7502777

Ubah dasinia?

Tuk tuk yuuso jua, leima US NAVY yooshu explosiv ey Al Quada

>> No.7502796

>>7501388
I remember learning in psych that when given a fill in the blank something along the lines of I am ___ english speaker write shit like 'I am smart' 'I am handsome' while mandarin speakers put 'I am a father' and more group oriented shit. They also tested this with dual speakers and found they still put individual shit when they wrote in english and group shit in mandarin.

>> No.7502846

the way we speak and write shapes how we think but how we think also shapes the words we use

>> No.7502878

now for a thought experiment

what kind of effect do you think a hieroglyphic pictographic based language - like the ancient egyptian script - has on the mind of a human being? pictures varying in color, style and size to convey ideas and subtle nuance? yesssss. this is a language that programs the mind a certain way, as do the asian languages affect the oriental mind

think about it

>> No.7502880

>>7502708
>>7502704
reductionism is strong within the pleb. good posts lads.

>> No.7502882

>>7502878
>now for a thought experiment
thought
experiment

thanks for this post, mr free thinker.

>> No.7502889
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7502889

>> No.7502891

>>7502882
read r.a. schwaller de lubicz's book on symbolic language and the innate intelligence it facilitates. it's incredible. you can find it free as a pdf just google "symbolism" and the author's name

>> No.7502907

L E O N A R D L AW L O R
Derrida and Husserl, The Basic Problem of Phenomenology

>> No.7502909

2016
still not being a structuralist

>> No.7502910

>>7502891
he seems to remain rationalist, in speaking of laws of the universe.

>> No.7502936

Both. It's obvious.

>> No.7502939

>>7501388
Yes.

>> No.7502947

>>7501388
Language is what we think, not what we think in.

>> No.7503000

>>7501388
No, we all have the same capacity to forming and understanding concepts.

>> No.7503023

>>7502889


It'd be stupid to think that language doesn't affect how we think AT ALL but the particularist view on language overstates the problems of language divergence. You could teach people how to build a computer in ancient greek. It'd just take a bit longer because you'd have to construct all the new terms you need out of the words you're allowed to use.

>> No.7503033

>>7318344

>> No.7503037

/lit/ demonstrating once again it knows nothing about linguistics.

>> No.7503038

>>7503000
say this to my mum

>> No.7503041

>>7502878
>the oriental mind
i'm kek

>> No.7503045

>>7502947
we don't think language
it's like a method of transport
i can drive a car but I am not a car anon
the car affects what routes I take and how fast and shit but I am at the wheel

>> No.7503049

>>7503038
It's never too late man, I began talking about Hegel and Heidegger to my parents. Old people like that.

>> No.7503077

>>7503037
As someone who has taken linguistics courses in Englisch studies and German studies I can tell ya that linguists can't seem to agree on what linguistics is either. They won't tell you that though.

>> No.7504397
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7504397

>>7503037
And of course you do.

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