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7457059 No.7457059 [Reply] [Original]

How do Stirners' "spooks" differ from Zizek's "pure ideology"?

>> No.7457062

They include a wider range of things, but the concept is very simillar.

>> No.7457777

Ideology in the Marxist sense is opposed to class consciousness, it's a fake form of consciousness. Spooks don't have such antithesis afaik.

>> No.7458505
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7458505

>>7457777
cheers blud. have a jco macro.

>> No.7458509

>>7457777
so to zizek marxism isn't an ideology?

>> No.7459100
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7459100

>tfw Zizek would get BTFO in a debate with Stirner

>> No.7459126

>>7458509
No, to him it would be a tool to critique ideology.

>> No.7459152

>>7458509
Marxism is not an ideology, it's a tool. You don't fight in the name of marxism, you are not building something on marxism, you just use it as a tool for critically thinking and acting the world.

>> No.7459154

>>7458509
there is a distinction between what he means by ideology and what you mean:

"an ideology" vs "ideology"

if you were talking about the same thing 'an ideology' would be nonsensical, it's just ideology. it's not just 'to zizek' either.

>> No.7459162

>>7458509
Ideology is the unknown knowns.

>> No.7459168

>>7458509
Ideology in the sense Zizek employs isn't the same as the popular use of the term, i.e. a political philosophy. It's the conjunctive tissue between the individual and the material world that surrounds him, and the institutions that govern it. It's how your socialization in a society shapes your worldview in order to prepare you for that society.

>> No.7459174

>>7459126
>>7459152
>>7459154
>>7459162
>>7459168

how fucking sad is it that it we dumbasses made 5 posts in a row and we still haven't given him a decent definition of Ideology

>> No.7459178
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7459178

Marxs whole theory of ideology and his epistemology is obviously a response to Stirner more so than Feuerbach

>> No.7459191

It's time for you guys to read Althusser.

You will find a wider notion than just a critique of Marxism, but a theory about science in general. Science in general is an epistemological break with what is assumed in ideology. At the same time, ideology is the material of science. Science seeks to make sense of the confused mess of what is taken for granted.

>> No.7459197

Spooks are in the conscious, Zizek's ideology is the unconscious.

>> No.7459202

>>7457777
Zizek's understanding of ideology is different from Marx's. His first big work, The Sublime Object of ideology, was all about contesting Marx's idea of ideology.

>> No.7459224

>>7459174
it´s the difference between ideology and marxism what they tried to post.
not a definition of ideology.

>> No.7459232

>>7459202
how can you get rid off from ideology in zizek view?

>> No.7459245

>>7459232
>how can you get rid off from ideology in zizek view?

you put on the glasses from They Live

or you read a bunch of marx and hegel

>> No.7459254

>>7459245
he don´t say nothing about that putting on the glasses can be the beginning of a new ideology?, or something…

>> No.7459261

A spook is a concept that cannot be dissolved when it leaves contact with the ego.

Morality existing on its own, and not just in you for example is a "spook"

the term spook is interchangeable with "wheel in the head" as in something that appears to have a life or motion of its own, but its just in your head.


Ideology is a pattern of thought that is usually systematic and geared towards a certain kind of thinking.

people who are indoctrinated with ideology are undoubtedly spooked,
however, its very easy to use or participate in an ideology without thinking that its value exists beyond you.
I hope that makes things more clear.

>> No.7459281

>>7459261
>its very easy to use or participate in an ideology without thinking that its value exists beyond you.
tell me one

>> No.7459294

>>7459254
not rly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVwKjGbz60k

>> No.7459298

Holy fuck. Not one of you understands Zizek. I thought you guys were patricians...

>> No.7459304

>>7459174
not that sad desu feels good living in the free world

>> No.7459319

>>7459281

A female egoist who argues for feminism only because she knows it will benefit her and not out of any moral reasoning.

Any special interest which does the same

anyone using marxism, deconstruction, etc for the purpose of critiquing something.

people who are religious because they like the idea of having a religious partner who genuinely believes, or wants to be part of a religious community.

Someone who uses capitalist ideology in their job, or political life because they know its the most effective in the current epoch.

Literally almost anything can be used or participated in, I could go on.

>> No.7459324

>>7459232
you can't "get rid of" ideology in zizek's view. for him ideology comprises, among other things, the necessary structure behind social reality as such. so there really is no ideology-free reality, save this lacanian notion of some obscene void or some such.

however, "pure ideology" in zizek's use of the term simply means ideology which is understood to be non-ideological, to be the unquestionable or "objective" brute facts of reality. the most obvious example might be something like the politics of sam harris, which are understood by him and his disciples to be simply the product of impartial "facts and logic." of course, to step beyond this all you have to do is realize the ways in which such views are in fact ideological. but there is no reality "behind" the ideology to be glimpsed, as there is in the standard marxian definition of the term where ideology is understood as a false consciousness which obscures actual reality.

>> No.7459325

>>7459298
Enlighten us then, friend.

>> No.7459348

>>7459324
he recognize he can get confronted with "pure ideology" in himself or he is totally aware and admit that he is totally ideological and don´t care about it?.

>> No.7459371

>>7459319
you can use the ideas of the ideologies. not the ideology itself. you can´t use he ideologies without her (usually narrow) precepts. in fact when you add your egoist thinking in the ideology x you are creating a new one. although a slightly different one

>> No.7459424
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7459424

To understand Zizek's use of the term ideology I'd recommend some Althusser, particularly his "Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses".