/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7138351]

Why are public teachers allowed to be so shit? The ones I encountered had the intellect of people you'd find in a supermarket or a pro wrestling event. Just fat unimpressive adults with an inflated sense of self-importance and a certificate in the subject they purport to 'teach.' With a job that important, how could you allow yourself to phone it in? I get that every day can't be Stand and Deliver but god damn they're sleepwalking

[Anonymous No.7138359]

Pre-service teacher reporting in, this bugs me as well and hopefully at the very least I can give my classes the educations they deserve. If the whole thing makes me jaded and cynical with the system in general, I have plans to transfer into special education and teach severely autistic kids life skills.

[Anonymous No.7138363]

>>7138359
So you thought "What's even MORE worthless than being a regular teacher? Teaching retards!"

[Anonymous No.7138368]

>>7138351
looks like the chick from indy mogul, those were the days :'(

[Anonymous No.7138369]

>>7138359
As someone who has taught before, it's really just into the system because of teaching unions and tenure.

I taught at a large state public university in accounting (complete 100% turn around from the university I attended), and the students there didn't care because they weren't paying, were too lazy to actually take the time to do their own work.

One email summed it up best: "Do I need to memorize this formula for the exam? Because in the real world I wouldn't have to know it I could just google it".

Sadly, you'll eventually become burned out and jaded because only two students in a class of 30 actually want to be there, and are contributing to the course.

[Anonymous No.7138371]

>>7138359
"Why do you want to teach autistic children?"
>I have spent years of my life schooling autistic children on a Turkish bottle recycling listserv.

[Anonymous No.7138373]

>>7138369
>One email summed it up best: "Do I need to memorize this formula for the exam? Because in the real world I wouldn't have to know it I could just google it".
Sounds like you got fucking owned, dude.

[Anonymous No.7138400]

>>7138373

>Hey son!
>Yes boss?
>Do the math for me quick, the investors are waiting behind the door and I need these numbers now.
>Okay, sir.
>Wait, what, why the fuck are you fucking around with your phone? You have pen and paper right there.
>I have to google the formula first, sir.

Next week, anon started his new job at McDonald's.

[Anonymous No.7138405]

>>7138400
Better get down all possible formulas in high school then so he is immediately prepared for any and all jobs.

>I expect you to learn this formula within the week as a 15 year-old
>because you can't be trusted to learn it within a week of getting a paid job at 22

[Anonymous No.7138406]

>>7138400
>Implying you've never used google to look up a formula
>implying an accountant needs to know information about a formula that quickly.

[Anonymous No.7138421]

we need a new master

[Anonymous No.7138425]

>>7138400
Why is my father being such a dick?

[Anonymous No.7138442]

>>7138351
I don't know much about the US beyond the general impression that your society is completely fucked up in all sorts of important ways, but I'm guessing it's because they're not paid much.

[Anonymous No.7138446]

>>7138442
It's a little bit of that and a little bit of "who the fuck wants to work with children?" Also it's traditionally a job for women which should raise all sorts of red flags.

[Anonymous No.7138487]

>>7138405
>>7138406

Another issue I wasn't going to bring up since it's not technically related, is this idea that it's the schools job, not the employer to prepare you for work.

Which is absolutely insane, given the fact that most college educated graduates don't take any classes outside of their commerce school after freshman year.

The whole point of going to college is to learn how to think, not repeat information. Same thing applies to all depart,nets, but the management just has to keep passing and accepting more students to stay competitive.

The whole system, at least for the public schools, is broken. My children will be attending a liberal arts school and will never be in any public school system.

[Anonymous No.7138505]

>>7138487

> The whole point of going to college is to learn how to think, not repeat information.

> forces students to memorize useless formulas that they can google in seconds

[Anonymous No.7138527]

>>7138371
that meme is old your fired

[Anonymous No.7138572]

>>7138505

I get your teen angst but you have to know your shit before you can think about your shit.
So he shouldn't learn the formula but be able to set up the formula
Not op btw

[Anonymous No.7138576]

>>7138505
Memorisation is a thinking skill. School is testing you on that skill. If you fail the test you have demonstrated that you are shiftless, the actual content is often unimportant.

[Anonymous No.7138577]

>>7138351
who is this semen demon

[Anonymous No.7138579]

>>7138359
Well you'll have had plenty of practice

[Anonymous No.7138587]

>>7138505, see >>7138572

He's completely right. Just because you are able to get the answer from google doesn't mean it's always the right answer.

Think of how many new discoveries were made by people having to go through the process, and actually thinking about how to solve a problem or address something that needs changing?

This is a huge problem in the business and STEM world. These people have never read classics, can't talk about anything besides numbers, and can't think abstractly about the effects of decisions.

Explain to me how someone having exposure to Virgil's works and calculus will be better able to function better than someone who can only plug equations into google and enter them into a spread sheet. If you say the second, then why even bother with education or even training?

[Anonymous No.7138606]

>>7138351
>2015
>still taking shots at people who enjoy pro wrestling

[Anonymous No.7138620]

>>7138400
A tablet/phone would be the better choice as you'd be able to bring up the right information assuming Son knows what the fuck is going on.

[Anonymous No.7138697]

>>7138587
But the student supposedly said:
>Do I need to memorize this formula for the exam? Because in the real world I wouldn't have to know it I could just google it

"It" meaning the formula, not the answer. He's not asking permission to just plug all exam questions into Google. He's asking why he can't have a simple reference sheet visible when doing math.

[Anonymous No.7138699]

>>7138351
>be in 7th grade
>first time in public school
>teacher makes me read books like Esperanza Rising that I read 3 years ago
Luckily I transferred to a different public school and got a much better teacher

[Anonymous No.7138703]

>>7138697
Writing down the formula and being allowed to use it as a reference, again defeats the point of actually learning the formula, not memorizing what needs to plugged in where.

Anyone can memorize things, but to be able to approach a problem from different perspectives, and examine things that could impact or bias your ability to come to a right answer, but not necessarily the correct answer.

It's a myopic way of approaching education. Essentially university for the most part has become 4 years of training and partying for those in business and stem, and 4 years of useless degrees in the softer science because companies will not hire them.

There have been people I have worked with who could not use the proper form of "their" and "there" in professional emails. Universities are not putting out well-rounded, educated individuals into society anymore.

[Anonymous No.7138719]

Papa Spookbuster had some interesting input on education: http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/max-stirner-the-false-principle-of-our-education

Also stupid question that doesn't deserve a thread. Have the goals of our education systems largely shifted from education to competition? It seems like a reasonable explanation for what >>7138703 says about university educated adults not being "well-rounded [or] educated".

[Anonymous No.7138729]

>>7138719
I'll definitely be giving this a read.

Schools want to put out competitive students who are qualified for jobs in the market, so that they can show the parents the $30,000 (or more given where and scholarships etc) they spent on their child's marketing degree was worth it.

And the fact that students start interning sometimes as early as the summer of their freshman year, they need to get into as many business courses as they can from the start to even get that interview.

Not once in any interview in college did someone ask me about my English course on Romantic Era poetry or the Sociology course on Native American Religion.

If their students aren't getting jobs, they aren't getting money. Simple as that.

[Anonymous No.7138730]

>>7138703
>Writing down the formula … defeats the point of actually learning the formula, not memorizing what needs to plugged in where.
How many students actually understand how to derive the formulae, rather than just memorize what formulae they need to plug in and where? If understanding of the formulae is what’s required, then, sure, having a reference sheet defeats that purpose. But aren’t they just asked to memorize the formulae, even if they do not understand from where they come? In that case a reference sheet would just reduce the rote memorization required of the students, and so they would focus their efforts on applying the formulae rather than memorizing them.

I suppose your point is that asking them to memorize formulae is the same as asking them to understand them, and that if they have a reference sheet of some kind they won’t understand them. But I disagree: I don’t think most of the students understand the formulae in either case, and if they can’t have reference sheets they’ll just learn the formulae off by heart, which is not very important in any other context than that of exams – sure, if they end up with a job in which they would use some formulae very frequently, it’d be better if they could remember them without googling them, but wouldn’t you agree that they’d learn them off by heart then, when it would actually benefit them?

[Anonymous No.7138731]

I almost decided to get involved with this company before I realised I would make a terrible teacher because I don't really have any enthusiasm.

What they do is send fresh-out-of-University postgraduates to schools in rough areas after running them through a short boot-camp. If you do well, you get to continue being a teacher. If not, you find another career.

Something about using low-income area schools as a training ground doesn't sit well with me. This is the modern state of British education.

[Anonymous No.7138740]

>>7138731
They have something like that in the US. They incentivize teaching in low-income areas by offering some student loan forgiveness (up to $17,500) if you do five years of teaching in the hood.

[Anonymous No.7138752]

>>7138730
I do agree, that is how I would personally prefer it to work. Unfortunately, the exams I would have to administer would be 50 multiple choice questions with normally 2 written problems.

In an ideal system you wouldn't have classes off 300 students, and you'd be able to facilitate a discussion of what is going on with the formula, what role it plays in the larger picture of what we're focusing on etc.

But again, it's just being able to recall information to be able to make the best decision out of 4 choices. A completely unrealistic and useless measure of someones intelligence. Being able to talk through a problem is much more beneficial to a student's education than just being failed.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I didn't sleep much but really like talking about how messed up our system is and why I was driven away from it.

[Anonymous No.7138760]

>>7138731
>What they do is send fresh-out-of-University postgraduates to schools in rough area

I don't live in burgerland but my high school used to do that,it had tons of new teachers who used to leave all the time, but the area wasn't particularly shitty. It was low-income but it wasn't a full on ghetto.

[Anonymous No.7138763]

>>7138351
>people you'd find in a supermarket
Wtf? What does this even mean

[Anonymous No.7138764]

>>7138760
Nobody wants to teach black students ("low-income" is basically code for black). Read Christopher Jackson's essay.

[Anonymous No.7138767]

>>7138763

class warfare

[Anonymous No.7138791]

Because:
a) the State doesn't care about education
b) low wages
c) most people are philistines

[Anonymous No.7138792]

>>7138763
>he acquires his own groceries

[Anonymous No.7138804]

>>7138791
>the State doesn't care about education
Do you really believe this? My country's education system might not be perfect but I like to think they're trying and any problems are due to less than optimal adaptions to relatively new pressures faced by educators such as way too many students and 90% of people expecting to end up in university.

[Anonymous No.7138805]

if maybe the hordes of creative smart young people that don't have the x factor to be truly great in cinema, art, music or whatever came to grips with reality, stopped being so egotistical and invested less time aimlessly wasting time on the internet, they could become teachers and give children the gift of open mindedness, creativity and maybe the inspiration for learning.

[Anonymous No.7138808]

>>6447794

[Anonymous No.7138811]

>>7138791
>c) most people are philistines

this is the actual answer tbh

[Anonymous No.7138812]

Off topic

[Anonymous No.7138816]

>>7138805
But people don't want to learn because most are ,and will continue to be, worthless plebeians. The children that actually want to learn will seek it out on their own at some point.

[Anonymous No.7138819]

>>7138808
Okay then smart guy, /lit/ how was your school's literature related stuff? Did you gain an appreciation for literature in school? Did you study good stuff?

I personally feel like I was let down by the system and I only got into good stuff through independent searching at home. Picking up Lord of the Rings when I was about 10 probably got me on the right track. Has anybody studied Shakespeare in school and actually been interested in the course? I hated looking at Shakespeare in school but then I saw Kenneth Branagh's four hour movie adaption of Hamlet and thought it was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen. What's up with that?

[Anonymous No.7138878]

>>7138819
>Okay then smart guy
>school's literature related stuff?
>study good stuff
>good stuff
>What's up with that?

Go back to reddit. You're on a literature related book, and you have no appreciation for Shakespeare, but enjoyed the movie.

You are a plebeian, in the absolute definition of the term.

[Anonymous No.7138884]

>>7138816
>>7138816
Complete bullshit, it only takes influencers at an early age to get children interested. I can trace the reason for my interests through my parents and grandparents. None of them worked in creative fields, they were all working class, but certain personality traits, interests etc. prevailed and were passed down and sparked inquisitiveness in different areas. A small example would be how my grandfather was really into jazz, a creative pursuit. He never played an instrument, he just liked it and he showed the value of it to my father, who became really interested in music and developed really eclectic taste, which he then passed onto me. I happen to make music now, play multiple instruments etc. It's not always a one generation turn around, where again you get fulfil your massive ego and be hero good will hunting master

[Anonymous No.7138888]

>>7138884
i hope you can understand this cause i wrote it terribly, you get the point.

[Anonymous No.7138899]

>>7138369
>tfw studying for CPA exam
>tfw didn't get a junior internship
Am I doomed? I'm a senior now but with no accounting experience only retail. Am I screwed for real for real?

[Anonymous No.7138915]

>>7138442
Not quite the opposite but it's in the opposites vein. Teachers Unions in the USA have a stranglehold where it's almost impossible to fire a teacher unless they commit a felony. This leads to teachers who get very comfortable and lazy.

And no, our society is generally not fucked up and I could just about guarantee it's better than your country. Stop getting your info from liberal as fuck news sites and /polint/ memes.

[Anonymous No.7138919]

>>7138351
Sounds like a complex, bro

[Anonymous No.7138931]

>>7138899
Nah you'll be fine. As long as you have work experience, and can handle yourself in an interview you'll be fine.

Just network, go to all the recruiting events, and be social. The majority of people in this industry are either super introverted, semi-extroverted, or can barely speak English.

All the major big 4 firms are looking to basically double in the next couple years, so you should be good if you pick assurance as your service line.

As far as the CPA goes, it fucking sucks. You do get a $5k bonus if you pass it within your first year, and the firm pays for the whole process.

[Anonymous No.7138953]

>>7138804
I do, but I understand your point. You probably live in a high developed country. In most countries the education budget is the first thing they cut in time of crises/debts

[Anonymous No.7138977]

>>7138351
Yeah I was thinking about this last night. My entire public school career every single English teacher I got was some failed something else. Senior year it was a singer who coulden't make it, Junior year was some dude who worked in factory for 30 years then became a teacher because he was bored (Great guy, but I think he had the reading level of a 12 year old), no matter what, they were never a person with a special skillset. Just people who read in their spare time and made a career out of it because they didn't have any other drive.

Then I tested out of taking any literature classes in college, which is a shame because those actually seem half decent.

[Anonymous No.7138982]

>>7138442
Its really not fucked up people just like to complain because 80% of everyone here is from the US and then the other 20% of impressionable young Euros take the opportunity to feel superior.

[Anonymous No.7139008]

>>7138878
Not the guy you're responding to, but I had a similar experience. Shakespeare is meant to be played.

Forcing teenagers who can barely read aloud (in fucking high school AP Lit) to take turns with each scene is an abysmal way to get kids interested in Shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.7139020]

>>7138953
>in a high developed country
more like the highest

[Anonymous No.7139037]

>>7139020
noice. shoutout to knausgard

[Anonymous No.7139121]

>>7138351

theyre just teachers. there are millions of them and they're not superheros. you shouldn't expect so much out of them as society doesn't place much value on them anyway; cliche but athletes get paid more etc... chill the fuck out and stop being so pretentious OP