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/lit/ - Literature

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6773812 No.6773812 [Reply] [Original]

>people are still debating whether or not God created evil/allows evil to occur

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

Do Christians/Jews just like to ignore this passage, the entire Book of Job, and many other instances where God intentionally is a dick?

>> No.6773814

>>>/x/

>> No.6773827

The term "evil" here literally means "adversity". "Evil" back in the King James times had a much broader meaning.

>> No.6773837

>>6773827
To describe to the kind of evil you're thinking of, the King James Bible uses "wickedness" and "inequity".

>> No.6773839

>>6773827
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

(NIV)

I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe,
I am the Lord, who do all these things.

(RSV)

The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

(NASB)

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

(Geneva Bible)

Shut up retard.

>> No.6773849

>>6773812
They're debating whether God directly creates light and darkness, or creates darkness as a product of only creating light in limited areas.

>> No.6773853

>>6773839
This is the word
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7451.htm

God bless you, brother.

>> No.6773872

>>6773853
from the very page you posted
>10 ethically bad, evil, wicked:
>a. in General, אם טוב ואם רע Ecclesiastes 12:14 whether good or bad.
>b. of persons...
>c. of thoughts...
>d. deeds, actions

Hell, most of the citations of the word on that page are explicitly under one of the "ethical evil" definitions

>> No.6773877

>>6773872
The word changes connotation when in adjective, if you care to read from the top

>adjective bad, evil (distinction from noun

>> No.6773882

Ver. 7. Create evil, &c. The evils of afflictions and punishments, but not the evil of sin. (Challoner) --- I afflict and comfort my people.

http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id1265.html

>> No.6773888

Very different from these words

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7562.html
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5771.htm

Stubbing your toe can be "evil" in the sense used here, but it can't be the other two.

>> No.6773904

>I'm a dick to you people, but you should still worship me
>cucktians actually accept this

>> No.6773906

It may have come from translation of the Vulgate, because in Latin malus is used both for evil and bad.

>> No.6773909

>>6773904
>is will to be tortured to death and go to hell out of love for us
>dick

>> No.6773915
File: 324 KB, 444x522, 1296403397509.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6773915

>no one actually debates this

>> No.6773920

>>6773909

Yes, for the fuck ups he caused

So your god isn't just an asshole, he's an incredibly stupid asshole as well

>> No.6773927

>>6773812
I bet this thread will be filled with well informed opinions of thoughtful and intelligent anons of all creeds and spiritualities.

>> No.6773928

>>6773920
Except that the Bible is clear that men have free-will and that the primary cause of man's affliction is his own will.

>> No.6773930

>>6773920
God did nothing wrong.

>> No.6773931

>>6773928

And who gave them that free will again? Knowing in advance what would happen?

>> No.6773947

>>6773931
Are you suggesting we shouldn't have free will because we are irresponsible with it? You might have a case, but the same case could be used for antinatalism.

>> No.6773959

>>6773947

No, I'm suggesting that if I were to breed a species of pitbulls, I knowingly made them as aggressive as possible, I keep one of them in my bedroom and it bites me, I shouldn't blame the pitbull

>> No.6773963

>>6773947
he doesnt really have a case, for us to be intelligent at all, we must have a free will.

The idea of intelligence without will is as stupid as a trilateral without angles

That said, i think Auguspepe could be made better, ill work on it

>> No.6773967

>>6773959
God didn't make us as sinful as possible.

Humans are made in the image of God, pitbulls aren't. The law doesn't hold animals to the same account it holds people, if it puts an animal down it's not because the animal "knew better"

>> No.6773977

>>6773967
>God didn't make us as sinful as possible.

If I look around the world today, it really seems like he did. He certainly didn't give his best shot at creating a noble human race

>> No.6773979

>>6773967
If you give someone natural curiosity and trust in authority but don't give them the ability to know right from wrong, and they do something wrong because they don't know any better yet (because you locked that part of their brain behind eating a forbidden fruit), it's kind of your own fault.

Don't put the snake there, or don't put the tree there, or don't make pre-fall humans so ignorant of what a sin is.

>> No.6773987

>>6773979
>Don't put the snake there, or don't put the tree there
if the tree wasnt there, then there wouldnt have been a choice, and if there isnt a choice, then there isnt a will

>or don't make pre-fall humans so ignorant of what a sin is.
A sin is turning away from God, they knew that eating the fruit was against God, but they did it anyway
(I mean this in a purely allegorical sense, I dont believe in a literal genesis account)

>> No.6773995

>>6773987
>A sin is turning away from God, they knew that eating the fruit was against God, but they did it anyway

And God could stop this, but choose not to, making him ultimately responsible

>> No.6773996

>>6773987
>they knew that eating the fruit was against God,
They don't know that being with God us Good and being against God is Evil because at that point they didn't have the knowledge of Good and Evil.

>> No.6774013

>>6773995
>And God could stop this
if he had stopped it, then there wouldnt have been any free will, you big doofus

>but choose not to, making him ultimately responsible
that's a big fucking jump right there

>> No.6774020

>>6774013
>if he had stopped it, then there wouldnt have been any free will, you big doofus

And no one would be burning in hell, thus saving us from eternal suffering

>that's a big fucking jump right there

Not really, since he has the ability to stop evil. If you have the ability to stop evil, but choose not to, you're responsible for it. It's as simple as that

>> No.6774022

>>6773996
>They don't know that being with God us Good and being against God is Evil
of course they do, theyre intelligent, thats what being intelligent means, realizing what's good for us

>> No.6774023

Good and evil are matters of perspective. The coyote's good is the rabbit's evil.

>> No.6774031

>>6774020
>And no one would be burning in hell, thus saving us from eternal suffering
the eternal suffering comes from us choosing what is not good, that's why you suffer

>> No.6774032

>>6774022
If they already have knowledge of Good and Evil, why have a tree that gives them that knowledge in the first place? That tree doesn't need to exist if they already have it.

>> No.6774039

>>6774020
>If you have the ability to stop evil, but choose not to, you're responsible for it
if he had stopped this evil, then our will wouldnt have been free, if he's responsible for our will being free. then good

>>6774032
the tree didnt fucking exist, it's a story

>> No.6774046

>>6774039
>the tree didnt fucking exist, it's a story
What is your method of separating what actually happened and what "doesn't fucking exist"?

>> No.6774059

>>6773827
"Satan" literally means adversary, though. Adversaries make adversity. Satan is God's other half.

>> No.6774060

>>6774046
>What is your method of separating what actually happened and what "doesn't fucking exist"?
history, ever heard of it?

>> No.6774067

>projecting your imperfect morality onto a perfect being

>> No.6774069

>>6773812
>God created evil/allows evil
Augustine surely didn't. He claimed that some things would be perceived as evil by humans, because of their inability to see the big context, but that everything is ultimately good, because God created it.

>> No.6774081

>>6774059
>Satan is God's other half
I want the Gnostics to leave

>> No.6774082

>>6774067
>meming

>> No.6774100

>>6774069
That bigger can't see the quote in op? Did he ignore it? Did he ignore the bible because it was too tetard and illogical?

>> No.6774119

>>6774100
>the bible was written in english
did you ignore this thread?
:^)

>> No.6774126

>>6774119
Formans lucem et creans tenebras faciens pacem et creans malum: ego Dominus faciens omnia haec.

>> No.6774133

>>6774119
What he said:
>>6774126

>> No.6774153

>>6774126
>it was written in latin guyz!

>> No.6774162

>>6773849
Either he is not as powerful as they say (because he only creates light in limited areas) or he is not as good as they say (because he allows darkness to exist)

Same with the other concepts.

>> No.6774178

>>6774162
See, here the objection would be that God only creates light in areas where the residents can handle it. Being in the dark is miserable, but if residents of the dark had light shone on them they would be in agony.

It's a clever way of redefining "good" and "evil" to make sin the culprit and removing responsibility from God. If people spend centuries arguing a text you can get all sorts of esoteric explanations.

>> No.6774241

>>6774039
"You are guilty of metaphorical fruit eating I, God, punish both of you with 5 lashings of my metaphorical sockpuppet snake. Now live happily for eternity in my silly garden of truth bearing trees. The end."

There, I am literally better than God.

>> No.6774260

>>6773959
>No, I'm suggesting that if I were to breed a species of pitbulls, I knowingly made them as aggressive as possible, I keep one of them in my bedroom and it bites me, I shouldn't blame the pitbull

God didn't make us sinful or inclined to sin. St. Thomas even says that prior to the fall man had "all knowledge" and "all virtue".

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1094.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1095.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1096.htm

Man's inclination towards sin is a result of the original sin of Adam. In other words, all of the affliction of man was caused principally by that first sin.

>> No.6774284

>>6774241
>living happily when the balance between our animality and our rationality is broken by sin
shiggy diggy

>> No.6774295

>>6773977
again, you're forgetting the entire doctrine of the Fall which is what the second thing the Bible deals with in Genesis after creation.

Adam and Eve in paradise were in a profoundly different state than we are in now. They had better control over their passions.

>> No.6774306
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6774306

I always gathered that the Abrahamic religions paid lip service to god but never considered god that nice of a guy in actuality. He's a supreme asshole psychopath and you grovel at his feet for whatever scraps of mercy and fortune he throws you, but you shouldn't expect anything.

He's not admirable, he's just the most powerful, and you suck his dick so he might spare you--and for no other reason than that.

>> No.6774349

>>6774306
you should read the writings of the saints

>> No.6774355

>>6774069
do you not realize how horrific of an idea this is?

>> No.6774363

>>6774349
don't throw pearls to pigs

>> No.6774366

>>6774306
>I always gathered that the Abrahamic religions paid lip service to god but never considered god that nice of a guy in actuality
The late Abrahamic religions are really Neoplatonist, worshiping a singular idealized philosopher's God who explained the order of the Greek cultural landscape. But their texts are based on a capacious desert protector God who explained why being a Hebrew was such a dangerous life. Theology is the act of fitting the jealous psychopath God peg into a benevolent philosopher God shaped hole.

>> No.6774395

>>6774349
This is the equivalent of telling somebody to read Marx. Say something or shut the fuck up.

>> No.6774408

>>6774366

But the New Testament God is already a Greek Philosophical God. The New Testament was written in Greek originally, and concepts like separable human souls came from Platonism rather than the Old Testament. Christianity was basically a few Jews going Greek, getting rejected by 99% of the other Jews, and then spreading it to other Greek and Roman people, who liked it because so much of their culture was involved in it from the beginning,

>> No.6774417

>>6774408
>The New Testament was written in Greek originally
Matthew was written in Hebrew

>> No.6774447

>>6774417

Source ? I've never heard that before.

>> No.6774463
File: 191 KB, 638x900, jesus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6774463

>>6774306
>>6774366
l o fucking l

>> No.6774472

>>6774447
http://www.churchinhistory.org/s3-gospels/clem-trad/contents-clem-trad.htm

Chapt. 14

>> No.6774514

2 Kings.

God gave Gehazi and all of Gehazi's unborn descendants for all time leprosy.
So he literally punished innocent people with a debilitating illness.

So God literally committed evil against innocents.

>> No.6774528

>>6774514
verse 27 if I recall correctly

>> No.6774626

>>6774514

Well punishing the guy's posterity is an extension on the punishment of him, his descendants are a part of him. It isn't much different from how we all have to suffer because of Adam and Eve, we carry on something of them with us that is deserving of it.

>> No.6774656

>>6774408
>But the New Testament God is already a Greek Philosophical God.
Yeah, that was part of the pounding process. Jesus saying that what comes out of a man's mouth defiles him instead of what goes in, for example, in contrast to Old Testament law. In the PT there were instances of Yahweh demanding actual piety rather than just adherence to law, but those were the exception rather than the rule, and got elaborated upon by the NT writers.

>> No.6774688

>mfw christcucks are just Neo Jews
>mfw Muzzies are just Neo Jews
>70% of the world's population is Jewish

>> No.6775272
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6775272

just dropping this here

>> No.6775305

>>6773839
>2015
>not using the patrician Catholic New American Bible

>> No.6775364

Why are you Christposting in the first place? Reactionary politics on the board have already moved back to atheism, your time is up, wait a few months and it'll come back.

>> No.6775379

>>6775364
This. Get the fuck out already, stop lingering.

>> No.6775404

>>6775364
The Gospel must always be spread, until Christ comes again in glory.

>> No.6775423

>>6775404
Or until posting fedora pictures is a bannable offense, whatever comes first