/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6749633]

What is consciousness contingent upon?

[Anonymous No.6749642]

Nothing because consciousness is a bottom up phenomenon

[Anonymous No.6749644]

An object and a subject

[Anonymous No.6749658]

>>6749633
n-n-no ur the p-zombie

[Anonymous No.6749720]

Desire to experience.

First there is only one, or nothing or infinite, which are much the same thing. This is when you are yet to be born, when you are after death, and because it is just one and nothing and infinite, you can say this is when you go between lives, between days, between moments. The years of life that you've spent blinking.

Then there is two, that differentiate subject and object, background and foreground, a sun to shine a light and cast a shadow. Difference. Your consciousness is one of the sides of the split. This consciousness asks itself why things went that way and it will project an answer and this projection is precisely the truth. So for example, you can say that it separated itself out of loneliness in an act of desire to experience the other. And then when this encouter with the other occurs, it doesn't need to be that way anymore and it goes back to zero, one, infinite, to the without difference and so without purpose. We fight to get hit, we love to be loved, we give up to die. When we are born, when we wake up, when we learn, when we go, when we exercise our consciousness on anything, that is absolutely contingent to a necessary relationship created by a desire to experience this difference.

[Anonymous No.6749725]

>>6749633
>What is consciousness contingent upon?

Awareness of Boners.

[Anonymous No.6750314]

your mom

[Anonymous No.6752823]

bump

[Anonymous No.6752832]

im not just going to hand you over novel prize winning work

[Anonymous No.6752888]

the process of perceiving the conceptual abstraction of atomic beings through one-dimensional objects electronically Amen Amen Amen

>tfw no gf wearing lace underwear for me
life is suffering

[Anonymous No.6752894]

>>6749720
Hippie nonsense

Read. the. fucking. Bible

[Anonymous No.6752917]

>>6752894
>2015
>Bible
pathetic

[Anonymous No.6752933]

>>6752917
>preaching degenerate feelgood satanic bullshit
>pathetic
What the hell happened to Christendom. We need to go back

[Anonymous No.6752934]

>>6752917
seriously this. I was reading an article on the bible over on therationalwiki the other day and it said there is a part of the bible in which a man, Jonah, lives in a fish's belly for 3 days. Only a child or a moron would put their faith in a book this ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.6753004]

>>6752894
>>6752933
>>6752934
Christfags, can Christian scripture reveal to me how consciousness arises?

It's because God did it, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.6753021]

>>6753004
define consciousness

[Anonymous No.6753049]

its a byproduct of language

[Anonymous No.6753050]

>>6753021
The mind's awareness of the mind and of things other than the mind.

I'm not an academic, which is why I'm asking /lit/ so this definition is by no means comprehensive or even broadly accurate.

[Anonymous No.6753061]

>>6753049
Doesn't consciousness proceed language?

Like, Helen Keller had human feelings before having human words, yeah?

[Anonymous No.6753063]

>>6753049
possibly, though it also seems to be dependent on episodic memory

[Anonymous No.6753070]

>>6753004
Are you implying God isn't necessarily conscious?

[Anonymous No.6753076]

>>6753061
Yeah but was she conscious?
And what is language?

[Anonymous No.6753087]

>>6753070
I don't think I am, no. I'm asking where in Christian scripture I can learn about the nature of consciousness and the origin of human consciousness.

I wouldn't have this question if one guy didn't suggest reading the bible.

>>6753076
>Yeah but was she conscious?
I think so?
>And what is language?
Man, fucked if I know.

[Anonymous No.6753143]

Y'all at least have some recommended reading on this stuff?

>inb4 the Bible again

[Anonymous No.6753160]

>>6749633
physical organs

[Anonymous No.6753221]

>>6749633
please go take a strong enough dose of pic related to kick you in the ass so far as to not come around here asking stupid questions anymore.

[Anonymous No.6753231]

>>6749633
Hormones and nothing else. Stop thinking that consciousness is special. You are running on what can be modeled as machine code. No amount of "me me me" will change that. It's your biochemistry acting up.

btw try to interview a 100% turboautist, then you will understand what I'm trying to say here.

[Anonymous No.6753238]

>>6753231
when are you available for an interview?

[Anonymous No.6753247]

>>6753221
Druggies are this stupid.

[Anonymous No.6753257]

>>6753247
ok shrooms. whatever. the point is to understand the question. here you go:

"what is the pattern "ABABABABAB..." contingent upon?"

answer: the letters being in order "ABABABABAB..."

great, this is just a fucking revolutionary discovery if i've ever seen one...

where are you possibly going to end up with a question like OP's?

[The cats No.6753260]

>>6749633
An apparatus, physical or otherwise. I don't know how the human brain precisely works, but I would go as far to say that our consciousness depends verily on is physical setup being what it is.

[Anonymous No.6753266]

>>6753231
no i disagree. what is the advantage of an organism that is conscious from an evolutionary perspective?

[The cats No.6753270]

>>6753221
I'm all for keeping the most open of minds, but you haven't really contributed anything valuable to the discussion, surely nothing the great Albert Hofmann would approve of

[The cats No.6753272]

>>6753260
>>6753270

You're not me.

[Anonymous No.6753273]

>>6752894

[Anonymous No.6753281]

>>6753270
i contributed
>>6753257
and >>6753266

i'm seeking answers like anyone, but the question, needs defining to start. OP assumes we agree with what consciousness is. I really assume its just a fish for replies, as all the anon's clammer to insert their own definitons and understandings without agreeing upon the terms of the fucking discussion. and look, just that has happened

[Anonymous No.6753306]

>>6753281
OP here, didn't mean for this to happen. I was only "fishing for replies" so far as I might get a half-reasonable answer. Oh well.

[Anonymous No.6753320]

>>6753306
ok. well would say consciousness is like a light? is it on or off? is something EITHER conscious or its not?

[Anonymous No.6753322]

>>6749633
Thanks for posting this picture, there was precum just from looking at it.

[Anonymous No.6753324]

>>6753320
I would say that something either is or isn't conscious, yes. Though I would refrain from the light analogy, it somehow befuddles the point.
>>6753322
You're welcome m8, just a random pic I pulled off /s/ to make the thread appealing

[Anonymous No.6753327]

You won't ask the question you really want to ask, because you are either foolishly afraid of the answer or are afraid that the answer will be people calling you a fool.

You don't want answers, so just go drown yourself sedatives like you truly desire.

[Anonymous No.6753331]

>>6753324
ok, so if that is what you claim (about either/or), could you choose the simplest living organism that you would claim to be conscious?

[Anonymous No.6753339]

>>6753331
because surely we're in agreement that consciousness arises out of life. i can't think of a non-living object you'd agree was conscious

[Anonymous No.6753344]

>>6753327
>
Can you tell me what it is that I really want to ask? Because I can't for the life of me figure it out.
>>6753331
I'm not precisely certain, but let's say a rat
>>6753339
I think we can agree, yes

[Anonymous No.6753351]

>>6753344
Ok, a rat. now, i'm assuming you aren't a rat, so in that case, what gives you the impression that the rat is the lowest form of conscious containing life? if you were to prove this to me, where would you begin? what is your evidence?

[Anonymous No.6753358]

>>6753351
I very, very seriously don't know.

I take your point that I should try and define consciousness before trying to figure out where it might come from if it exists at all.

[Anonymous No.6753361]

>>6753266
You have no idea how evolution works.

It's not like any trait has some abstract concept of being "beneficial"

It's a result of random mutations in brain chemistry that ended up with concioussness as a byproduct that proved to be beneficial to the species.

I'd also like to mention that I'm
>>6753322
and I'm not even a virgin that just is very specific to my tastes

[Anonymous No.6753368]

>>6753358
yes, i feel the origins of consciousness, if you believe they can be understood, are important

[Anonymous No.6753374]

>>6753344
Do you believe that "consciousness" is the driving force behind actions?

[Anonymous No.6753379]

>>6753361
ok, so the question is, how could consciousness be described as being beneficial? what does it ALLOW us to do that we couldn't before?

[Anonymous No.6753387]

>>6753374
not that guy but I would say it is insofar as it allows us to direct our behavior to an intended result. if we can predict the consequences of our actions, it would make sense we could tailor our actions to then "choose" the consequences (results). we are constantly gambling with our time to acquire what we feel is needed

[Anonymous No.6753390]

>>6753361
I also found it dubious at best, which is why I didn't reply.
>>6753374
Not necessarily, more like an awareness than anything else.

I was reading an article posted here earlier today about how split-brain patients would create post-hoc explainations for actions they were essentially prompted to do without them being aware.
>>6753379
Like he said, it doesn't necessarily allow us anything, but if consciousness indeed came about by evolutionary means then it didn't develop out of some benefit but at random and has stuck around.

[Anonymous No.6753395]

>>6753379
It's not "counciousness" that's beneficial, it's the concoction of brain chemistry required to produce a species as intelligent as us that's beneficial. In other words, intelligence is beneficial for our species, and conciousness is a byproduct of generations of more intelligent offspring.

[Anonymous No.6753398]

>>6753390
So do you deny recognizing the causality link between consciousness and every conscious action you take; you're saying that consciousness is not the cause of those actions?

[Anonymous No.6753408]

>>6753390
what exactly would you say allowed us to make it to the top of the evolutionary ladder? what distinguishes us as the "most advanced" species?

[Anonymous No.6753417]

>>6753398
Yes, I think so. I'm by no means an authority on the subject.

What the article I was reading would suggest is that there are extra-conscious impulses which drive action and that then in turn drives conscious thought.
>>6753408
There is no "top" or "most advanced" in evolution, life works towards reproduction solely.

What distinguishes humans in particular is our level of intelligence, which has served us very, very well in reproduction and survival into the future.

[Anonymous No.6753422]

>>6753221
>>6753257
I thought Terence McKenna was dead, but he's preaching his pseudoscience here in /lit/! I guess DMT really does have spiritual powers!

[Anonymous No.6753426]

>>6753221
I want to try something like this. All my friends do is smoke pot. Where does someone find something like that?

[Anonymous No.6753427]

>>6753395
i don't know why you keep using the term brain "chemistry". i feel like things are much more hard-wired than that. anyway, the point i was trying to get to with the rat example was that I wouldn't say a rat is conscious, because I believe we could make a pretty good robotic rat. its actions can be understood in a purely cost/reward sense. its my assumption that consciousness initially arose because it was a byproduct of awareness that was necessary to affect the environment. so for example:
if a group of apes was hunting, it would be beneficial to "know" if a fellow hunter "knew" he was in a good range to say kill an animal. group hunting is more effective. so it was sort of extending your "consciousness" to others in the group so it allowed you to make better decisions. so in the example, if you could see that the other hunter was oblivious, you would take the shot and maybe make the kill, but otherwise you woudnt' because your distance from the prey was greater, so the risk of scaring it away with a bad shot was as well. so consciouness, self-consciousness was simply turning that awareness inward, "do I know that there is a predator behind me", you could then see yourself as "the other" as opposed to being entirely invested in the sense data at hand, like a rat is

[Anonymous No.6753458]

It's not contingent on anything. Human perception is keen enough to see the force of time itself acting upon things.

[Anonymous No.6753602]

[The cats No.6753619]

>>6753422
Quiet, you're being neither funny nor clever, and you're adding nothing new. This post is proof that shitposts are like the heads of a hydra; every one breeds two new ones, just as shitty.

[toggafaerauoynehtsdrawkcabsiht(...) No.6753660]

>>6753602
u must be a jap