Wolfe Thread

File: 133 KB, 600x600, 1429977728442.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Wolfe Thread Anonymous Tue Apr 28 06:51:01 2015 No.6466583 [Reply] [Original]

http://grrm.livejournal.com/424135.html

>The NEW YORKER has run a major profile of Gene Wolfe. Good reading, for the Wolfe fans out there... and an intriguing introduction to one of the field's greatest writers, for those who have yet to sample his work.

I have a newfound respect for the Gurm after he paid his dues to the wolfemeister.

Also Gene thread I guess. I just finished reading The 5th head of Cerberus and damn, that last sentence chilled the blood in my veins. Next up : Peace.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 07:41:18 2015 No.6466675 My copy of Sword and Citadel came in the other day Stoked to have TBOTNs in physical as I re-read. Next stop is Long Sun.

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 07:45:27 2015 No.6466680

>>6466675

OP here. I have yet to read Long Sun, but I know it's...well...long.

Also, I noticed that science fiction and fantasy writers all seem to love Wolfe and all have nothing but the highest praise for him.

Le Guin, Swanwick, now even GRRM, you name it. He seems to be a writer's writer.

I wonder why that is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 07:46:09 2015 No.6466681 File: 11 KB, 184x232, wolfe2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Third for real Wolfe

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 08:09:09 2015 No.6466728 >>6466583 Grrm here seems like a nice guy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 08:17:46 2015 No.6466744 >>6466681 What a mememaiater

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 08:20:21 2015 No.6466751 >>6466583 What is your favorite novella in 5HoC?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 08:35:54 2015 No.6466798 >>6466751 The first one. >someday they'll want us.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 08:48:07 2015 No.6466822 >>6466798 I liked the second one more because it manages to capture a mentally of primitive people like nothing else I've ever encountered.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:38:26 2015 No.6466934 >>6466680 >He seems to be a writer's writer. Correction: an SF&F writer's writer. No one notable from outside of the sci-fi circlejerk has ever praised him as far as I know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:39:45 2015 No.6466935 File: 20 KB, 340x326, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6466681 Do you even Wolfe?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:40:00 2015 No.6466937 >>6466934 You make it sound as if any literary community isn't a circle-jerk

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:41:11 2015 No.6466939 >>6466934 Are you one of those who divide things into genre and literary fiction?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:47:06 2015 No.6466950 >>6466939 I don't put overmuch stock into the distinction but I believe it exists, sure. I mean the naming of the distinction is an act of reification in itself, no?

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:51:00 2015 No.6466955

>>6466950
>I mean the naming of the distinction is an act of reification in itself, no?

Yes but just because it exists in some people's minds doesn't automatically mean it's a valid or even useful categorization.

I for one think there are only good books and bad books.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 09:55:39 2015 No.6466962 >>6466955 Can't 'good-bad' and 'genre-literary' function concurrently as X and Y axes? The point remains that Wolfe's notable admirers conspicuously all belong to the Sf&f genre.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 11:23:14 2015 No.6467142 >>6466681 They're actually related

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 11:25:38 2015 No.6467150 File: 124 KB, 640x640, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6466934 >consigning sf to a ghetto

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 11:28:42 2015 No.6467157 >>6467150 >not appreciating Confucian wisdom of assigning literature into categories of content

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 11:29:19 2015 No.6467160 Wolfe doesn't win Hugos because its a popular award Whatever everyone reads and likes wins. Not everyone reads Wolfe so fewer nominate and fewer vote. Which shows how far into the minority the rightwing coterie are.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 11:33:03 2015 No.6467168 File: 223 KB, 640x1136, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6467157 >genre/literature designate content

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 11:42:41 2015 No.6467188
File: 47 KB, 402x402, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Though Latro keeps forgetting what they have gone through together, their friendship builds. “The heart remembers,” Latro says, “even when no trace of face or voice remains.” This man comes running up to him, “shouting, his arms in the air,” and though Latro does “not know where we met or why I love him (though no doubt those things are written somewhere on this scroll),” he can’t stop smiling. “Without thinking at all about what I should do,” he tells us, “I embraced him as a brother.”

You'll never have a friend like this

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 12:12:21 2015 No.6467293

>>6466583

That Wolfe Pepe...my sides

I also just finished reading 5HoC. It is extremely based. The variation on literary styles and techniques utilized throughout the three stories is a testament to Geney Boy's skill as a writer. Most writers would give anything to be able to write as diversely and with such precision.

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 12:50:56 2015 No.6467427

>>6466962
>Can't 'good-bad' and 'genre-literary' function concurrently as X and Y axes?

The undeniable existence of good genre and bad literary directly contradicts this.

>The point remains that Wolfe's notable admirers conspicuously all belong to the Sf&f genre.

I'll give you this much.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 12:53:26 2015 No.6467437 >>6466962 >The point remains that Wolfe's notable admirers conspicuously all belong to the Sf&f genre. So what's your point?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 13:00:20 2015 No.6467450 File: 34 KB, 368x368, 1429390248109.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw I asked GRRM about Wolfe on his blog and he fucking answered He literally does not have anything better to do with his time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 13:00:59 2015 No.6467452 >>6467450 >He literally does not have anything better to do with his time. Except, you know, finish writing his fucking books.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 13:01:33 2015 No.6467453 >>6467450 What did you ask and how did GRRM respond?

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 13:04:00 2015 No.6467457

>>6467453

>Q : I was wondering if Wolfe's books were an inspiration for your own work, especially considering you both started out roughly in the same period despite Mr. Wolfe being a generation older. I saw, or thought I saw, something of Wolfe in your early SF work of the 70s and 80s, but feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

> A : Gene and I were both members of the Windy City Writers Workshop that I founded in Chicago in the 70s. We were mostly young punks, except for Gene and Algis Budrys. I learned a vast amount from them both.

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 13:12:17 2015 No.6467474

>>6467457

I listened to some podcast a while ago which interviewed Wolfe. He mentioned this club and how he presented The Feast of Saint Katherine (the short story which eventually became TBotNS) to the group. Wolfe recounts how they all didn't like it. They thought it was "too Rococo" or Baroque for their tastes (to paraphrase). The group consisted of GURRM and some other no names whose names don't really matter anymore. It goes to show you how Wolfe is on another level than most of his SF/F peers.

It was actually a pretty decent podcast. I'll try and dig it up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 13:56:47 2015 No.6467598 >>6466935 a stone, a leaf, an unfound door; a stone, a leaf, a door. And of all the forgotten faces. thank you based thomas

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 14:00:16 2015 No.6467608 >>6467474 Please do. Source on Wolfe is so scarce.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 14:36:38 2015 No.6467715 >>6467474 pls anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 14:50:19 2015 No.6467767 >>6467715 Have patience. I'm at work right now and will look for it in a bit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 15:34:30 2015 No.6467939 File: 167 KB, 1056x1072, 1430249286697.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Where do I go after TBOTNS?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 15:35:52 2015 No.6467952 >>6467939 fifth head of cerberus or book of the long sun

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 15:41:48 2015 No.6467999 >>6467939 >>6467952 Also The Wizard Knight

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 15:46:14 2015 No.6468020 >>6467939 >>6467952 >>6467999 also the death of doctor island and other stories and other stories

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 16:45:00 2015 No.6468306 >>6467939 Read it again, it becomes a different book

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 17:06:53 2015 No.6468383 >>6468306 Good advice

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 17:06:57 2015 No.6468384

>>6467939

Objectively, Peace is his best stand alone work and it may be his best work period. It's also the work which has the most 'mainstream' appeal.

Peace, 5HoC, and Latro series are all based as hell.

His short story collections are always great too. Seven American Nights, The Last Thrilling Wonder Story, The Her as Wefwolf, The Doctor Death Stories, The HORARS of War, and The Detective of Dreams are personal favorites.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 17:23:53 2015 No.6468436 New Based Marc Armini video up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYPIoyvmsMY SJW's and feminist critics BTFO

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 17:29:49 2015 No.6468455 >>6468436 >new >2 or so months old Anon don't make me hard just to tell me you are actually a trap

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 17:34:59 2015 No.6468476 >>6468436 you got my really excited there for a moment

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:07:12 2015 No.6468623 >>6468436 How spoiler-heavy is this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:11:16 2015 No.6468643 >>6467293 Look at book of the long sun, hundreds of characters and all with their own distinct style of speech You know who is talking without he said this he said that Only other writer like that I can think of is dickens.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:13:01 2015 No.6468649 >>6468623 Even if you knew everything it wouldn't mean much for enjoying it. And as far as I remember 3/10 on the spoiler scale.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:13:49 2015 No.6468655 >>6468436 5th head is about colonialism

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:15:22 2015 No.6468662 >>6468643 It's great in his writing, but many authors do this, Dosto for one. >>6468655 Not just, but mostly.

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:15:34 2015 No.6468663

>>6466962
>The point remains that Wolfe's notable admirers conspicuously all belong to the Sf&f genre.

Because most haven't even heard of him, not a lot of SF readers read him because its too literate but nobody in "literature" reads him because of debased snobbery

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:19:42 2015 No.6468688 >>6468436 >SJW's and feminist critics BTFO Pls, stop.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:21:26 2015 No.6468695 >>6468623 very.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 18:46:35 2015 No.6468785 >>6467188 >being friends with a black man Wolfe is cucked

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 19:13:18 2015 No.6468892 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-uo6nZ_qo >she couldn't understand it

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 21:50:51 2015 No.6469568 >>6468892 I can get her position, but yea it was probably way too early for her to jump into BOTNS. Wolfe's style is dense as fuck but nothing he says is just flowery window-dressing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 22:17:53 2015 No.6469637 >>6467452 >better

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:21:27 2015 No.6469814 >>6466583 "Someday they'll want us." Sooooooooo creepy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:28:03 2015 No.6469836 >>6469814 You've already said that three times, OP

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:28:14 2015 No.6469837 File: 25 KB, 300x213, classroom.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6467457 The two extreme ends of the nerd spectrum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:37:41 2015 No.6469861 >>6468643 Wolfe is, eh, laborious, hey? Scoped of eh, characterization, no? Many people in Viron, hey?

Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:38:50 2015 No.6469866

>>6469836
I'm not the OP...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:42:02 2015 No.6469875 >>6469866 You might as well adopt a trip. Your posting style is noticeable enough on its on, but at least then I can filter you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 28 23:50:29 2015 No.6469887 >>6467450 Heh, I don't grudge him a thing anymore. I enjoyed ASOIAF books while I read them and then they pass from memory for the most part. I'll be happy if he writes another but I'm not invested enough to be mad either.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 00:06:47 2015 No.6469926 >>6469875 I'm not the OP.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 00:16:59 2015 No.6469956 File: 44 KB, 577x290, 645234443.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6466583 Its funny to think Gurm was once known only for his Science Fiction.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 00:21:34 2015 No.6469968

>>6466583
Of course GRRM fucking respects Wolfe. GRRM and Wolfe have both been major figures in the field and in fandom for about the same length of time. they've almost certainly known each other for like 40 years, and they were (I would argue) pretty well comparable in terms of what they were trying to do in F&SF when they both started.

Of course things have changed over time, and I wouldn't compare GRRM to Wolfe in writing quality. But learn the history of the field, son.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 00:23:26 2015 No.6469977

GRRM's point about Wolfe and the Hugos is fantastic, by the way - because if the Puppies had a shred of goddamn integrity, Wolfe is exactly the writer they'd be championing. He's an undeniable grandmaster of the field, he's politically and culturally conservative, and he's unrewarded.

but they don't give a shit, because he's not a doctrinaire conservative or neoreactionary, and because he doesn't fit into Brad Torgensen's nostalgic bullshit space opera model of science fiction.

Piss to the lot of them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 00:25:35 2015 No.6469982 Anyway, other than that, I guess I can look forward to my mother texting me some time in the next couple of days asking me if I've ever heard of this Gene Wolfe fellow. Which should be fun.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 00:44:56 2015 No.6470033 File: 20 KB, 494x574, Genewolfe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6469982 give her the G

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 03:27:29 2015 No.6470429 >>6470033 Wolfe is now finally a real meme

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 03:28:47 2015 No.6470431 >>6469982 >telling your mother about misogynist writers

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 03:43:52 2015 No.6470475 >>6470431 Wolfe isn't a misogynist, not by any stretch of the word or the imagination.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 03:56:25 2015 No.6470504

I've got an elderly aunt that has been reading just about everyting and reviewed books for a living. She told me once that she simply didn't get the greatness of Thomas Mann. I got Magic Mountain and at the annual February book sale a few years ago and Reflections of an Unpolitical Man last year. And the other day I got Buddenbrooks.

I haven't read any of them yet, only browsed in them. And the novels are as bad as she said.
Incredibly tedious and self-conscious narration. Well, I gotta force myself trought them some day...

Reflections, on the other hand, are crystal clear. This is what I think and why and why and why.

Now, do you think that my aunt will enjoy some Wolfe?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 03:59:46 2015 No.6470515 >>6468663 authors like crowley have gotten praise from "literary" critics and writers despite being labeled as sci fi or fantasy

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:01:52 2015 No.6470521 >>6470475 Can't you Wolfe fans see through basic bait?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:03:57 2015 No.6470528 >>6470504 If she liked Proust and Joyce and she wanted to see their books fuck she will.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:07:06 2015 No.6470538 >>6470528 I will probably finish the first half of the trilogy this evening, so I can lend it to her. :3

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:14:03 2015 No.6470553 File: 133 KB, 1200x798, samuel-delany-3[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Will Black Science Fiction Guy ever be a meme?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:22:46 2015 No.6470570 >>6470553 We are discussing good authors here. This is the tread for maymay authors: >>6470447

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:31:27 2015 No.6470592 >>6469977 Hugos are a popular award things and authors everyone knows and likes and reads win Wolfe is complex and difficult, which means fewer people read him, which means fewer nominate him, which means fewer vote for him

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:34:58 2015 No.6470602 >>6468384 Gene Wolfe is probably my favourite short story writer.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:35:54 2015 No.6470603 >>6470553 Why is it fashionable for spec fiction authors to grow out beards?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:42:02 2015 No.6470607 >>6470603 Because they like Dostoevsky?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:56:47 2015 No.6470630 >>6470603 its more of a fat old man thing

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 04:56:55 2015 No.6470631 He's got a high meme potentiality quotient.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:06:51 2015 No.6470652 >>6470553 He's got a high meme potentiality quotient.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:24:09 2015 No.6470694 >tfw no exultant gf

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:27:41 2015 No.6470706 File: 13 KB, 360x235, IMG_295535713033496.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6470694 >tfw no any kind of gf who isn't an ugly bitch

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:30:34 2015 No.6470716 File: 74 KB, 400x400, thread-derailed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6470706

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:31:17 2015 No.6470718 >>6470694 >tfw no Agia

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:31:56 2015 No.6470719 >>6470694 Humanlets, will they ever learn?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:32:24 2015 No.6470722 >>6470718 What does an exultant really look like? Is there any good drawings of them? Tall and eyes wide apart and...then?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:37:57 2015 No.6470734 >>6470722 I'm guessing just fashion model tier, taller than most and angular.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:39:11 2015 No.6470739 >>6470722 Wolfe has around 20 fan arts/covers of the New Sun and none include exultants. I just imagine them as really tall and elegant.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 05:44:32 2015 No.6470750

>>6470734
>>6470739
Speaking in relative terms. How much taller than Severian is Techla? And how tall is Severian? He's supposed to be tall. What is considered tall? 180 cm?

>tfw no 190 cm gf that is like a huge dog that doesn't grasp how tall she really is and tries to cuddle in your lap

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:00:41 2015 No.6470776 >>6470750 Severian is probably around 190 cm because of his exultant genes and Thecla 200-210 cm. I think, that is how I imagined them anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:03:25 2015 No.6470781 >>6470750 It sounded like she was at least head and shoulders taller than Sev, and I'm guessing he's around 5"10-6ft

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:16:15 2015 No.6470802 Is Urth of the New Sun required to bring closure to the series or am I just retarded? I really didn't start putting together all the pieces until the end of book 4. I don't think it would be enough to end the series on. Not without rereading.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:17:44 2015 No.6470804 >>6467160 >Whatever everyone reads and likes wins. This is demonstrably false. You can buy (literally) a Hugo award for something like $2000. In the past decade or so a small clique of toxic individuals have been doing just that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:18:33 2015 No.6470806 >>6470802 You can make do with the first four if you have to, but I highly recommend reading Urth as well. It answers a lot of questions and closes some plot threads that were left hanging. It all comes full circle.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:20:15 2015 No.6470811 >>6468384 >it may be his best work period Certainly not. 'Most accessible', yes. 'Best' -- no.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:22:27 2015 No.6470815 >>6470802 Urth is like the author writing the guidebook in the form of a novel. Some boring sections, some adventure sections, some cool ones. I'd say read it.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:22:35 2015 No.6470816

>>6466962
>The point remains that Wolfe's notable admirers conspicuously all belong to the Sf&f genre.
He unironically believes in the Christian God. Being an atheist and nihilist is a hard requirement for being a 'literary writer', and the gatekeepers of 'serious literature' are very strict on enforcing this rule.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:24:11 2015 No.6470819 >>6470816 >le persecuted Christian-American meme Don't you people still have to put a hand to the bloody thing for all official oaths and shit, don't be ridiculous

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:28:21 2015 No.6470823

>>6469977
>he's not a doctrinaire conservative or neoreactionary
Yes he is, and much more so than any of the Puppies.
>he doesn't fit into Brad Torgensen's nostalgic bullshit space opera model of science fiction
And this is the point where you realize that when the Puppies weren't lying when they made claims that their outrage isn't about political partisanship.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:28:32 2015 No.6470824

>>6470819
not that guy but

>be me, German, both grandpas big Nazis
>get married in Guam (American territory)
>have to swear solemnly that the stuff in my paperwork is correct
>woman tells me to raise my right hand
>oh god this feels natural and right

and that's how america awakened the nazi in me. a were-nazi, so to speak

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:28:39 2015 No.6470825 >>6470816 Well this is true, I already linked an article on Wolfe where a senior editor talks about that. She stated that he is too religious, difficult and strange and if he came in today with the book of the New Sun he wouldn't be published at all.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:31:32 2015 No.6470832

>>6470825

So the opinion of one single editor out of thousands is assumed to be the actual state of the industry because it fits your narrative. Gotcha.

>their outrage isn't about political partisanship.

Yeah it's all about the quality of the work, that's why they put Kevin J fucking Anderson on their slate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:32:00 2015 No.6470833 >>6470823 Wolfe is as hardcore Catholic as it gets and if you consider Catholicism to be reactionary he is leading the charge.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:33:05 2015 No.6470836 >>6470832 A veteran editor who has been leading in the business for decades, yes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:34:05 2015 No.6470838 >>6470819 I didn't say Christians are persecuted, you mongoloid tard. I said that 'literature lit' is a tiny circlejerk, and being a Christian automatically disqualifies you from any action in that circle.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:34:44 2015 No.6470842 >>6470832 Also faggot I don't know almost anything about this sad puppies thing and don't recognize any of the authors and don't care about a shitty popular award ran by plebian nerds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:35:16 2015 No.6470846 >>6470833 Not just that. Read 'Home Fires' (great novel), there's a fair bit about politics in there.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:36:02 2015 No.6470850 >>6470838 I'm from a small European country and this is true. But there is a strong Catholic circlejerk here so it equates itself.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:36:22 2015 No.6470851

>>6470836

That same reasoning holds true for a lot of other things though. I suspect Melville or even Dostoyevski would have trouble getting published today, let alone achieve mainstream success. Literary trends change over time, big surprise there.

>>6470838

Dosto and Tolstoy were both Christians and everyone who isn't retarded considers them as literary as it gets.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:36:32 2015 No.6470852

>>6470832
>Yeah it's all about the quality of the work, that's why they put Kevin J fucking Anderson on their slate.
No, it's not about the 'quality' of the work. It's about removing the gatekeepers and turning the award into a normal popularity contest without the hidden agenda that has poisoned it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:37:08 2015 No.6470854 >>6470846 I will certainly get to it one day. But I still have more influential Wolfe novels ahead of me right now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:38:33 2015 No.6470858 >>6470838 ... considering the ability to read beyond the line that you people exhibit, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:38:40 2015 No.6470859

>>6470851
>Dosto and Tolstoy were both Christians and everyone who isn't retarded considers them as literary as it gets.
a) Tolstoy wasn't Christian.
b) They were Russian, things worked (and work) completely different in Russia.
c) This was before modernism, when 'literature' became synonymous with 'nihilism'.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:39:09 2015 No.6470863

>>6470851
>That same reasoning holds true for a lot of other things though. I suspect Melville or even Dostoyevski would have trouble getting published today, let alone achieve mainstream success. Literary trends change over time, big surprise there.
I don't doubt that. I just gave an interesting bit of information.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:40:18 2015 No.6470864 >>6470858 How the fuck does one 'exhibit' a 'line', you tard?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:40:26 2015 No.6470865 >>6470859 Tolstoy was a Christian for a larger part of his life. He went heretic later in his life. Correct me if am wrong.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:43:05 2015 No.6470872

>>6470852

There are no gatekeepers and there is no "hidden agenda", just a butthurt second rate writer who has decided to crash the Hugos with no survivors out of spite for not being good enough to win one, and he's succeeding.

They used to be voted by knowledgeable people, but the Puppies brought in the pleb hordes so now whatever is most popular will win regardless of quality, be it a Star Wars novel or fucking Eragon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:43:11 2015 No.6470873 >>6470864 make it 'within' the line...

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:45:18 2015 No.6470881 >>6470872 Lol good enough to win a popularity award fucking kill me big guy

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:46:13 2015 No.6470883 >>6470592 He is also a religious and conservative Catholic

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:48:44 2015 No.6470892

>>6470872
>There are no gatekeepers and there is no "hidden agenda"
Reality has proved you wrong. If there is no 'hidden agenda', then why the fuck are you so buttblasted?
>out of spite for not being good enough to win one
You can buy a Hugo for $2000. If he really wanted one that bad, he'd have scrounged up a couple grand instead. No, the tipping point was shenanigans like when the gatekeepers decided to proactively award three Hugos to shit writing like Anne Lecke's despite her not even finishing the damn books yet.
>now whatever is most popular will win
The Hugo awards were always a popularity contest. The award that's supposed to be given out by 'knowledgeable' 'experts' is the Nebula.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:52:27 2015 No.6470899

>>6470892

>Reality has proved you wrong.

>If there is no 'hidden agenda', then why the fuck are you so buttblasted?

I'm not. You argue like you're on /pol/, but you're not.

Feel free to tell me when reality has "proved me wrong" aka which writers did not deserve the award in the recent past. Is Anne Lecke all you've got?

Although I doubt you will find one as bad as Kevin "Ultraspice" Anderson, who according to the Puppies is deserving of the field's highest award for raping Dune in the ass without lube.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:53:42 2015 No.6470902

>>6470892
>Reality has proved you wrong. If there is no 'hidden agenda', then why the fuck are you so buttblasted?
I'm not that other guy, there's 0 connection between these two sentences, and what reality are you referring to?

>gatekeepers decided to proactively award three Hugos to shit writing like Anne Lecke'
Wikipedia says she got only one?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:54:01 2015 No.6470903 >>6470816 >Being an atheist and nihilist is a hard requirement for being a 'literary writer', and the gatekeepers of 'serious literature' are very strict on enforcing this rule. Who is Dostoyevski, TS Eliot, William Blake, etc fucking imbecile.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 06:56:58 2015 No.6470913 >>6470903 TS Eliot? I thought that was some sort of military code?

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:01:18 2015 No.6470921

The literary establishment doesn't shun Wolfe because he's a Christian, Conservative or whatever.

They shun him because he writes genre fiction. It doesn't matter to them how good it is. Le Guin is a woman and a feminist, and just as good as Wolfe, and yet she doesn't get any more recognition from them because of it.

As far as I know Harold "muh canon" Bloom pretends like they don't even exist.

>>6470913

>not knowing who T.S Eliot was

Are you for real?

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:04:45 2015 No.6470927

>>6470921
>As far as I know Harold "muh canon" Bloom pretends like they don't even exist.

I take "what is talking out of your ass for $100" please

Bloom wrote an *entire fucking book* about Le Guin

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ursula-k-le-guin-harold-bloom/1000288553?ean=9780877546597

Here's an essay on The Left Hand Of Darkness: http://books.google.de/books/about/Ursula_K_Le_Guin_s_the_left_hand_of_dark.html?id=aq0OAQAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:09:11 2015 No.6470938 I stand corrected then. My bad. I'm not a Bloom expert, that's why I added >as far as I know Still, we're pretty far from widespread recognition from the literary world, which Wolfe more than deserves.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:20:53 2015 No.6470957 File: 623 KB, 1260x633, gene_referance_sheet_by_obloquycondemed-d4lq2cf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6466583 >be me >want to see how people imagine BOTNS >go to deviantart >type in gene wolfe >I only find furries

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:45:47 2015 No.6470997 >>6470921 Of course I know who T.S Eliot is, never mind.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:47:07 2015 No.6471002 >>6470957 Why does it look like Solid Snake crossed with a fox?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:50:47 2015 No.6471007 >>6471002 I have no fucking idea. The question is why do furries exist in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 07:53:17 2015 No.6471014 >>6471007 Furries are philosophically useful in that they disprove Leibniz : their very existence proves this is not the best of all possible worlds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 08:02:39 2015 No.6471035 >>6471014 I see your point. I can never look at leibnitz in the same way

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 08:03:03 2015 No.6471036 >>6471007 Because as we advance as a species towards a future of accessibility, there will always be those seeking the highest form of escapism from the easiest life they've ever had to live.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 08:50:18 2015 No.6471134

>>6470899
>Is Anne Lecke all you've got?
No. Another one is John Scalzi.
>Although I doubt you will find one as bad
It's not that Leckie is a bad writer that is the problem. The problem is that they gave her an award solely for being one of the 'Good Guys' who publish the 'Proper Goodthought'. The worst kinds of in-group cliquishness compounded with censorship and ideological dictate.
>Wikipedia says she got only one?
She's supposed to get the 2015 and 2016 ones too. (Despite the fact that the awards haven't happened yet and even the novels themselves aren't published yet.)

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 08:57:25 2015 No.6471143

>>6470921
>and just as good as Wolfe
Are you high on that $2-dolla crack again?
>The literary establishment doesn't shun Wolfe because he's a Christian, Conservative or whatever.
Yes, it does. His views are too hardcore for the literary establishment, simple as that.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 08:57:40 2015 No.6471144

>>6471134

>Proper Goodthought

Babby's first 1984 strawman. How cute.

>She's supposed to get the 2015 and 2016 ones too.

According to who? Unsubstianted claims of muh SJW conspiracy by the King of Sore Losers Correia?

Look man, the Hugos aren't perfect. Scalzi and Lecke may lack what it takes to win one, I'm sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean they got pushed, especially since the voting system is open to anyone who purchased a supporting membership while you're making it sound like only a small minority decides who wins.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:01:36 2015 No.6471150

>>6471144
>you're making it sound like only a small minority decides who wins
>the voting system is open to anyone who purchased a supporting membership
The wires in your brain short-circuited, bro. Yes, it's open to anyone, which is why a small clique of insane tumler-tier internet warriors purchased enough memberships to turn it into a cliquish soapbox.

Why are you complaining that normal people caught on and decided to purchase memberships too?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:03:55 2015 No.6471153 >>6470927 lol btfo

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:05:44 2015 No.6471154 >>6471150 >normal people Yo people who care about this shit aren't "normal people" Just a heads-up

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:06:51 2015 No.6471156

>>6471150

I think you're making not one but two sweeping and incorrect generalizations.

First off, the "insane tumblr-tier internet warriors" are just people who attend Worldcon and have done so for the past 60 years. The Hugo is, simply put, their award. They created it.

Secondly, you're calling Vox Day's supporters "normal people" like he isn't just as insane as a tumblr warrior but on the other side. Can't you see the bias here?

>The enemies are demons, but my side is just common sense!

And again, this is either political or about the quality of the work. But if you put Kevin Anderson on the slate, I will assume it's not the latter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:10:32 2015 No.6471164 >>6471156 >They created it. I don't see many of them being over 80 years old... If nothing else I'm enjoying how this nonsense makes every person involved sound like an idiot

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:12:08 2015 No.6471167 >>6471164 Alright, how would you fix it then?

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 09:56:28 2015 No.6471227

>>6471150
There's no real evidence that's the case, bro.

Writers you don't like won some shit. Maybe some writers you think were bad won some shit. There's no conspiracy there, though. That's just people liking shit you don't.

Ridiculous goddamn conspiracy theories up in here.

>>6471156
This is on point.

Re: Wolfe and the Hugos - I don't think Wolfe's lack of awards is in any way a result of his politics. I think it's the result of him being a really difficult writer who doesn't do a lot of populist stuff, or accessible stuff, or classically sfnal stuff. And also partly a result of the way that the New Sun books were published - I have to think it didn't help that the BotNS was published piece-by-piece, so that instead of BotNS, you just had Claw being eligible.

Re: the literary establishment, the fact that Wolfe's a genre writer is absolutely the primary reason he's not accepted by it. I don't think most of your cultural gatekeepers have heard of Wolfe to deny him entry. It might be that they would also dismiss him for being too Catholic, but it's not what's happened so far.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 10:00:22 2015 No.6471237 Also, can we take a moment to note how good The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories is, as a collection

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 10:23:31 2015 No.6471304 >>6471237 We can note that The Best of Gene Wolfe is even better because it is 450 pages of amazing compared to less pages of IODD

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 12:36:10 2015 No.6471737 >>6470833 >>6470846 >>6470823 >>6469977 Doesn't matter. Wolfe isn't a fag. The puppies are fags. The day GRRM turns out to be a fag, the puppies will vote for his LJ posts.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:20:38 2015 No.6471899 >>6471737 I was just pointing out that Catholicism isn't the most popular thing amongst plebians who vote Hugo atm

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:21:55 2015 No.6471908 >>6471899 However, catholicism is the most pleb version of christianity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:22:42 2015 No.6471909 >>6471908 Nice bait

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:23:23 2015 No.6471911 >>6471909 No, it has the most followers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:24:36 2015 No.6471918 >>6471911 But that doesn't make it plebian. It means lots of plebians are Catholic, not that Catholicism is plebian.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:27:33 2015 No.6471933 >>6471918 But that doesn't mean Catholicism isn't plebeian, and is a rather good argument for Catholicism being plebeian, though less of one than the fact of Catholicism being plebeian.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:30:54 2015 No.6471944

>>6471933
It isn't necessarily a good argument. It's in certain cases a pointer. But it can be wrong, for example everyone in Russia was reading Dostoevsky and Tolstoy when they were alive, they were the Russian 50 shades of the time. Obviously better, but that's beside the point.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:57:05 2015 No.6472045 >>6470802 >Not without rereading. I think thats the point. I reread Shadow before starting Claw, and I picked up much more with the foreknowledge.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 13:58:07 2015 No.6472051 >>6471918 Check the correlation between catholicism and illiteracy vs protestantism and literacy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:08:49 2015 No.6472078 >>6472051 Are you telling me that South America is Catholic?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:28:46 2015 No.6472151 >>6472078 Well, yes. The swedes was literate before the french. And the french before the spaniards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:30:06 2015 No.6472157 >>6472051 I don't know the details, but is this because of Protestants translating the bible into their local languages?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:33:44 2015 No.6472171 >>6469977 >if the Puppies had a shred of goddamn integrity, Wolfe is exactly the writer they'd be championing He didn't have any books eligible this year you spaz

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:35:47 2015 No.6472185 >>6472171 >The land Across was published on November 26, 2013 Damn, you're right.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:51:57 2015 No.6472246 >>6470842 >>6471918 >>6471899 it's plebeian, you faggot

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 14:58:15 2015 No.6472277
File: 1.67 MB, 800x1024, John_Calvin_by_Holbein.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6472157
Yes, because of the protestant "Sola scriptura" (by scripture alone). It's not the priests interpretations and elaborations that are the most important, but the Bible itself.

Also, check'em!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 15:18:21 2015 No.6472389 >>6471304 How much of his short fiction does it compile? If I wanted to read Wolfe 's entire body of short stories, what else would I need?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 15:20:13 2015 No.6472399 >>6472389 There are only two editions of his short stories this being the larger one. So I guess just that one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 15:21:54 2015 No.6472410 >>6472389 He himself said he had to cut some he would've wanted to include. No collection is exhaustive.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 18:06:46 2015 No.6473122 >>6472410 Exactly, so what other collection would comprise of the cut stuff? >>6472399 Does it include stuff like Fifth Head of Cerberus?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 18:17:56 2015 No.6473169 File: 776 KB, 667x649, 1349806395424.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 18:40:43 2015 No.6473265
File: 2.67 MB, 256x234, 1429920148346.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6472399

But that's not true. . .

The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories (1980)
Storeys from the Old Hotel (1988) [winner of the World Fantasy Award for best collection]
Castle of Days (1995)
Strange Travelers (2001)
Endangered Species (2004)
Innocents Aboard (2005)
Starwater Strains (2006)

-wikipedia

From experience there are some stories that are shared between collections but there are way more than two volumes of short stories.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 19:29:29 2015 No.6473431 >>6466583 The edgamster gets some recognition, good, best teen writer around.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 22:13:34 2015 No.6474254 >>6473431 >edgamster

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 22:58:36 2015 No.6474424 >>6473265 Please don't post gore. I'm fucking trying to eat here!

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:29:52 2015 No.6474568 >>6474424 go back to /b/, faggot

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:34:35 2015 No.6474586 >>6474568 This is the only board I read. Please don't fill it full of gross gore like that. I almost vomited. At least there is another posts now I can scroll down and not see it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:35:49 2015 No.6474593 >>6474586 Gross I can still see the bottom of it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:38:09 2015 No.6474603 >>6474586 >This is the only board I read. it's certainly not if you're posting such puerile, /b/tier bullshit

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:45:00 2015 No.6474628 >>6470927 Lol btfo embarrassing

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:45:17 2015 No.6474629

>>6470883
thats got nothing to do with it.
He is Catholic, he's never said much about politics.
His work is championed by the likes of Ursula K. Le Guin and Kim Stanley Robinson - both of them are leftists/anarchists. So if there is an agenda how does that fit into it?

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:48:51 2015 No.6474638

question: I'm a penultimate pleb reader. grew up on tolkein, favorite author I've read as an adult is Vonnegut. I'm super intrigued by Wolfe but I feel like I'm not at a literary reading level to even enjoy his work.
What's a "medium" level sci-fi or fantasy novel I should read that isn't a /lit/tier master piece but would serve as a warm up to Wolfe's writing style?? like a BotNS jr, if that makes any sense

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:48:54 2015 No.6474639 >>6470927 fucking rekt.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:50:27 2015 No.6474644

>>6470852
>>6470892
>Reality has proved you wrong.
the reality is that SF has been writing about gender and race and politics for decades
the reality is that most SF writers are liberal/left or libertarian and so are their readers
The reality is that the hugos are a popular award, what is popular wins.
The last 3 best novel winners have been a space opera, a star trek homage, and a fantasy mary sue. Popular works.
>then why the fuck are you so buttblasted
>if you disagree with me then that proves I'm right
right
>decided to proactively award three Hugos to shit writing like Anne Lecke's despite her not even finishing the damn books yet.
Its a popular award, Leckes nomination this year has sold 94,000 units and the other four nominatinees have each sold between 1,000-3,000 units
Now as a popular award who might be the most likely the win?
>not even finished
you cant nominate a book not out
if you mean a work in an ongoing series, a series still being made, has been nominated well that happens all the time - you even get the 2nd or 3rd book in a series winning when the prior haven't
Not a conspiracy just popularity.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:51:06 2015 No.6474649

>>6474629
he says he's conservative here http://www.nationalreview.com/media/between-covers/gene-wolfe-best-gene-wolfe

I think it's cool that he and Le Guin admire each other's writing because they're both SF giants and extremely good writers, despite being at near opposite ends of the political spectrum. Wolfe's tastes are catholic in the lowercase-c sense as well

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:53:45 2015 No.6474658

>>6470825
> She stated that he is too religious, difficult and strange and if he came in today with the book of the New Sun he wouldn't be published at all.
Because the market has shrunk.
Because there isn't a market for short stories like there once was where you could spend several years developing your craft and building an audience. Wolfe had been writing short stories for about 8 years before he wrote Fifth Head of Cerberus.
Some writers like R.A. Lafferty and James Tiptree and Harlan Ellison solely wrote short stories.
Much of the midlist field that Wolfe occupies has been eaten up by the licensed tie-in novels. Star Trek, Star Wars, rpg and wargame and videogame novels.
NOT EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:54:47 2015 No.6474662 >>6470816 there is a snobbery against SF by the literary establishment, but it is not any sort of liberal/left/"SJW" agenda you're deluded

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:55:49 2015 No.6474668 >>6471134 >No. Another one is John Scalzi. Star Trek is popular with a large fanbase along comes a book that is a loving homage to star trek what might the response be?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:56:31 2015 No.6474671 >>6474603 Saying a disgusting looking woman looks disgusting is "/b/tier bullshit"? Lol, I even said it in a fun clever sort of way.

Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:57:10 2015 No.6474673

>>6471134
>The problem is that they gave her an award solely for being one of the 'Good Guys' who publish the 'Proper Goodthought'. The worst kinds of in-group cliquishness compounded with censorship and ideological dictate.
You have no evidence except that you do not like her and you do not like her gender
So you concoct this wild fantasy that relies entirely on the lack of evidence
>She's supposed to get the 2015 and 2016 ones too. (Despite the fact that the awards haven't happened yet and even the novels themselves aren't published yet.)
She is nominated
Look at the sales figure for her nomination and the others
And speak to a doctor about these delusions of persecution

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:57:27 2015 No.6474675 >>6466935 Favorite author. Did anybody else have to read him for highschool?

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:58:14 2015 No.6474676 File: 36 KB, 292x234, John_C_Wright.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6471150 you've got it backwards newfriend :^) the clique is rightwing nutbars pushing hackwork by fools like this euphoric gentleman

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 29 23:59:28 2015 No.6474681 >>6470927 Bloom likes one SF book that proves everything wrong, we can all go home the debates over

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:01:43 2015 No.6474685 >>6471150 >>6471134 you have no evidence, only mad ranting

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:04:45 2015 No.6474694

>>6474649
>he says he's conservative here
When an 80+ year old man says he is conservative what does that mean?
What fox news and talk radio and the rightwing noise machine says it means?
Or what it means when the 80+ year old man was young?
A single soundbite on a noise machine site provides us with no clues or insights.
>Wolfe's tastes are catholic in the lowercase-c sense as well
projecting, just like you project what you think his politics are

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:06:24 2015 No.6474702 >>6474671 why do her looks matter? why start a rebuttal against something someone has said or done with their physical appearance?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:07:27 2015 No.6474705 File: 184 KB, 512x384, milhouse through the looking glass.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6474676 >he's actually tipping the fedora

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:07:33 2015 No.6474706 >>6474694 no idea why my post made you so mad but I'm sorry I guess

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:09:29 2015 No.6474715 >>6474706 >someone who disagrees with me is mad this is the worst part of the rightwing identity politics no disagreement, no questioning

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:09:59 2015 No.6474718 >>6474702 I'm not rebutting anything. I just don't want to look at gross things, especially when I'm eating, Just please don't post gore.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:11:00 2015 No.6474726 >>6474715 >rightwing identity politics Ehhhhhh, that's not a thing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:12:22 2015 No.6474731 >>6474715 I'm a leftist dude, my politics are much closer to Le Guin's than to Wolfe's. I have no idea why you accused me of projecting when I don't even agree with Wolfe. ease up my dude

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:12:25 2015 No.6474732 >>6474726 >thats not a thing you perceive a conspiracy because people/works containing ideas you dont like have won a science fiction award

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:14:55 2015 No.6474741 >>6474732 I don't support the Puppies. Who are you mixing me up with?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:15:25 2015 No.6474745 I read TIODD just the other day, and maybe I'm in the minority, but The Hero as a Werewolf was my favorite story.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:15:30 2015 No.6474746 >>6474638 can anyone be kind enough to respond to me? i know there's enough anons ITT that one should have something helpful to respond with. sorry to beg like a fag but you're heated conversation has blown straight by my intrusion

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:17:31 2015 No.6474757 I read TIODD just the other day, and maybe I'm in the minority, but The Hero as Werwolf was my favorite story.

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:18:27 2015 No.6474762

>>6474741
rightwing identity politics are what drives this

They're insular and completely cut off from broader society
Inundated with the mantra of the rightwing noise machine
They perceive themselves to be right and proper and in the majority
They accept that there is a cultural battle with der liberals fighting tooth and nail to subsume america
They see works containing concepts they don't like and works written by women and minorities selling better and being nominated and even winning
And from their perspective of being right and being in the majority and everyone sharing their views and values there can be only one conclusions: a liberal agenda to overtake SF

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:18:49 2015 No.6474765

>>6474746
>>6474638
try Wolfe's The Fifth Head of Cerberus, it's easier to read than Book of the New Sun, it's only 250 pages, and I like it better. Probably worth reading twice, too.

If you're looking for something non-Wolfe and even more junior, maybe try Le Guin's Earthsea or The Dispossessed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:19:03 2015 No.6474767 >>6474638 >penultimate just read like 5th head of cerberus or whatever. you should be fine. read it twice

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:19:58 2015 No.6474770 >>6474765 thanks, that was actually helpful

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:20:26 2015 No.6474773 >>6474746 short story collections Fifth head of Cerberus Soldier of the Mist/Soldier of Arete/Soldier of Sidon The Wizard Knight Pirate Freedom

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:20:28 2015 No.6474774

>>6474746
Well, I don't have any specific recommendations, except to read good, challenging things generally. The things that make Wolfe challenging aren't really specific to SF&F; just getting better at reading in general is going to help.

A few things that come to mind... Try reading earlier Wolfe stuff, like The Fifth Head of Cerberus. Try reading non-SF stuff - something like Conrad's Heart of Darkness is fantastic (and also immediately relevant to Fifth Head), or Virginia Woolf, or the short story collection "The Dubliners" by James Joyce. And then within SF, I'd recommend trying to get your hands on some of the stuff from the New Wave movement of science fiction, which immediately proceeded Wolfe and is similar in a lot of ways - for instance the short fiction of Harlan Ellison which is quite good.

Hope this helps. Feel free to shoot some questions, or be more specific on what interests you about Wolfe / SF&F / literature generally if you want more tailored recs.

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:22:05 2015 No.6474781

There is a book by Wolfe that gives some insight into his Catholicism, but since Mr I Know What Wolfe Belives (Its What I Believe Too!) hasn't mentioned it I must assume he hasn't read it and is making things up much to nobodies surprise
protip: its old fashioned Catholicism nothing to do with modern merika

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:23:15 2015 No.6474784 >>6474746 I echo reading short story collections. There's hits and duds, but they never overstay their welcome and all the details from start to finish are fresh in your mind.

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:24:06 2015 No.6474789

>>6474746
Sorry man, I've been trying to think of an answer for you for some time now. Dune, that's good, mix of sci fi and phiolosophy. Snow Crash and the Diamond Age. Most everything by Vernor Vinge. And the first two Hyperion books (the only ones I've read so far). I read most of that before I read New Sun. Though I was but a child when I read Dune and am really meaning reread it and read the rest soon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:25:23 2015 No.6474794 >>6474762 No... Its the rejection of identity politics. The Puppies in this context are left wing, not right wing. Identifying with a group automatically makes one a leftist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:26:46 2015 No.6474803 File: 34 KB, 500x363, drill.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6474794 >yfw you say things like this mate give it up there is no liberal/left/'SJW' agenda, and the puppies are rightwing crackpots

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:27:53 2015 No.6474809 >>6474794 Shut up, you fucking child.

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:29:42 2015 No.6474815

>>6474765
>>6474767
>>6474773
>>6474784
>>6474789
you guys are really cool, thanks.
And I guess my interest is just what I've read about the world in general and the unreliable narrator sort of thing. It seems intriguing to me, being able to get lost in that world through that character. Plus obviously the insane popularity here and the exorbitant praise he gets must mean it's actually worthwhile

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:30:54 2015 No.6474821 >>6474815 also to prepare the way for reading Book of the New Sun try reading Umberto Ecos The Name of the Rose

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:31:11 2015 No.6474823

>>6474803
Of course there is an "liberal/left/'SJW'" agenda... just like there is a Republican agenda, or a whatever they are called in Europe agenda. Also, why do you people keep pretending SJW isn't a thing? I could find you thousands of people that are SJWs and will tell you why you're wrong.

>>6474809
I'm sorry that your prefect little religion isn't everything you hoped it would be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:32:11 2015 No.6474829 >>6474815 Lolita is the best unreliable narrator novel besides New Sun. And its sexy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:32:49 2015 No.6474834 >>6474821 there it is! another book on my backlog I already have in my dropbox. I'll get to reading that, then cerberus, then i should be set. >>6474829 and I'll read that too... this is gonna be a good summer

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:33:08 2015 No.6474835

>>6474823
Of course there's a liberal agenda, but the Sad/Rabid Puppies aren't liberals or leftists, except by your fucking retarded conspiratorial definition where everyone who does a bad thing or disagrees with you immediately becomes a leftist

you're a fucking idiot

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:34:04 2015 No.6474842 >>6474829 idk lolita isn't really very sexy tbh there's just not that much there

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:36:23 2015 No.6474853

>>6474835
Those that have a group mentality, work together and self sacrifice for others, are by default leftist. That's why leftist means. The Puppies goal is to exult their group above others.

Communists are leftist, Republicans, every church and every religion. The left is the idea that the group is more important than the individual.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:36:31 2015 No.6474854 >>6466728 Wait, did you actually let /lit/ convince you he was some boogeyman plotting the downfall of literature by writing genre fiction?

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:37:45 2015 No.6474858 >>6474842 ehhhhh, enough for me to work with.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:43:36 2015 No.6474884 File: 94 KB, 625x937, 3c2c5444b0b856d91529687a66b781eebbe1cfa3ff5e767b5298461c089a43e5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Can we please return to discussing Wolfe and not bullshit retards hijacking the Hugos? For the topic pls see >>6474868

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:47:44 2015 No.6474901 >>6474884 Sorry. That was just the topic of the GRRM post.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:52:43 2015 No.6474925 >>6474901 GRRM was talking about why Wolfe doesn't win a popular award which is pretty obvious - Wolfe isn't popular

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 00:53:34 2015 No.6474929 >>6474925 Yet.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 01:06:19 2015 No.6474978 File: 65 KB, 195x200, 1425969138559.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6474424 >>6474586 >>6474593 >>6474671 lmao how autistic are you to get that triggered by a simple gif you are what's wrong with 4chan

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 01:07:53 2015 No.6474984 >>6474978 Triggered? I was making a joke and kept running with it...

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 03:17:35 2015 No.6475308 >>6473122 It does. >>6473265 The problem is finding them

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 03:36:47 2015 No.6475358 >>6475308 All of them can be found on amazon. I just got an 80's edition of The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories in the mail just today!

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 03:48:24 2015 No.6475386 >>6475358 I'm too poor for 20 $ shipping :(

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 03:54:04 2015 No.6475410 >>6475386 With shipping it was like 8 bucks. Go out and get a job you dirty hippy. To be fair, I've gotten most of my Wolfe books for cents at thrift stores. But that costs me biking around.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 03:56:25 2015 No.6475422 >>6475386 Literally 10 seconds of Google is all it takes to get everything Wolfe has ever written on your ereader.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 03:58:24 2015 No.6475431 >>6475410 Depends where you are mate.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 04:04:55 2015 No.6475447 >>6475431 Where are you...

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 04:54:01 2015 No.6475524 >>6475447 Shit parts of Europe

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 04:59:43 2015 No.6475537 >>6471014 Leibniz also said that bare logical necessity and extreme constraints, all forms of retardness will be actuated.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 14:13:12 2015 No.6477141 >>6471014 >implying furries are bad Face it! Severian would love a threesome with Techla and SexyFur.

Anonymous Thu Apr 30 15:34:23 2015 No.6477361

>>6474673

How can you be nominated for a book that you've yet to finish? What if the 2016 book winds up being crap? She's still nominated for the award? Sounds like a fucking joke honestly, and no I don't keep up with or care about the Hugos or any book award for that matter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Apr 30 17:33:51 2015 No.6477722 >>6477141 stop saying techla

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature