/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6365621]

Why is Middle Age considered a dark period when so many elements prove the opposite?

[Anonymous No.6365630]

Because it's dark compared to the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.6365639]

>>6365630
How? It seems like it is considered dark because it is less known/studied.

[Anonymous No.6365655]

>>6365639
It was the term used by scholars of the Renaissance to describe the earlier culture they were seeking to advance up and overcome. The values of the Renaissance have influenced latter thought so the term stuck. No legit historian would use the term "Dark Ages", though, nor would any legit historian claim that pre-Renaissance Europe was an age of total ignorance, and certainly no one would claim this was the case for the Muslim world or China in that period.

[Anonymous No.6365659]

>>6365621
>when so many elements prove the opposite?
>religion
>shit art
>witch hunts

[Anonymous No.6365660]

>>6365621

Because faggot revisionist historians have been trying to subvert the blatant importance of Catholic thought and advancement in world history, much of it occurring during the Middle Ages.

[Anonymous No.6365664]

>>6365659
>religion
>retarded

[Anonymous No.6365667]

[Anonymous No.6365674]

>>6365659
Witch hunts were a feature of the early modern period.

[Anonymous No.6365675]

>>6365660
THIS

[Anonymous No.6365677]

>>6365667
Wtf is this reductionnist shit?

[Anonymous No.6365680]

Because it's during the Renaissance that paintings actually started to look real, music became interesting, literature became complex, and philosophy became reasonable

[Anonymous No.6365699]

>>6365680
>literature became complex
What about Dante, Boccace or Virgil?

>philosophy became reasonable
But Middle Age theologians studied the Greeks who are pretty reasonable.

>music became interesting
Arguments? For some people, music stopped being interesting at these times.

>paintings actually started to look real
Just because perspective was theorized didn't make pictures look real, and just because a painting looks real doesn't make it a good painting.

[Anonymous No.6365718]

The Dark ages did suck. Idiots get mad when other idiots blame the Dark Ages on the church when the church was actually responsible for recivilizing most of Europe after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, and their response is to deny that this period of time was in any way Dark at all.

[Anonymous No.6365721]

>>6365699
>For some people, music stopped being interesting at these times.
For some people in [insert favourite third-world grounds], music stops being interesting once it goes beyond a repetitive two-tracks beat.

[Anonymous No.6365736]

>>6365699
>But Middle Age theologians studied the Greeks who are pretty reasonable.

No, theologians picked and choose from the Greeks whatever supported their preconceived conclusions. That's not studying anything, that's cherry picking

[Anonymous No.6365747]

>>6365659
Witch hunts were a thing during renesance and early enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.6365757]

>>6365621
the middle ages? it was considered the dark period because hereticism was rampant throughout the christian communities and walled societies and therefore god punished man with a near-blindness, an insensitivity, to light, that of god and physic all the same. man literally saw darkness in everything and was unable to even see the grace of god. angels for the most part abandoned man and the state of mankind was in a disastrous downslide. a man named martin luther went about his own form of christianity, even worshipping his own god, something the few remaining christians assailed him for, but this personal god of his became so powerful that martin luther single-handedly restored the light of the world and thereafter brought about a successful reformation of christianity. of course the only records we have of this are to be doubted as much as anything else in regards to christianity, so modern scholars and scientists alike have adopted the alternative view that the various pests accompanying man in these clustered living environs only harboured highly transmissible infectious agents capable of bringing about the previously described blindess. whatever the case, there is a period of strange and bewildering events from roughly 1370-1590 that are undeniably the workings of heretical witch cults of (what would now be) northern france. hope this helps, i can offer some further reading if you find an interest.

[Anonymous No.6365761]

>>6365677
It's totally true. Read up on history.

[Anonymous No.6365764]

>>6365736
Please, state your source for this

[Anonymous No.6365765]

>>6365757

>this is what Christians actually believe

[Anonymous No.6365768]

>>6365621
It went against the uniformity of the Renaissance. I am not saying one is better than the other, but if you look at, for example,decorating in the Middle Ages it is a bunch of weird ass, pretty idiosyncratic stuff, entirely impractical in most occasions. The Renaissance changed this, reigned it in a bit and considered itself more "enlightened" as a result.

[Anonymous No.6365772]

>>6365677
The book was published in the UK in 2009 by Icon Books Ltd. (ISBN 978-1848310704) and is included in the short list for the Royal Society Prize for Science Books in 2010. The US edition was published in 2011 by Regnery Press under the title The Genesis of Science: How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution. In 2011 the book was shortlisted for the Dingle Prize of the British Society for the History of Science.[3]

[Anonymous No.6365773]

>>6365765
got a problem?

[Anonymous No.6365775]

>>6365772
It's a pleb's abridged version of this far superior work with added overtones of apologism.

[Anonymous No.6365777]

>>6365764

My source? What are you talking about? This is simply my opinion. Religious thinkers like Aquinas start from with the claim that his conclusion is true no matter what, and when something cannot be resolved (like for instance how he knows that the unmoved mover is a god, his god and how you check any of his claims), he goes back to revelation and faith, which isn't an argument for anything

[Anonymous No.6365781]

Anyone who doubts that the European Middle Ages was an age of stagnation should read the song of Roland and compare it to the Divine comedy or the Aenid.
The Middle Ages are called "dark" because they were dark compared to the Roman period or the Rennaissance.

[Anonymous No.6365795]

>>6365777
Ah, so you base your knowledge on your ignorance then. Thank you for your valuable input.

[Anonymous No.6365797]

>>6365680
>literature became complex

Dante's Divine Comedy & La Vita Nuova, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, The Tain, Prose & Poetic Edda, Exter Book, Icelandic Sagas (Volsungasaga, Njal's, Laxdaela, etc.), Song of Roland, Nibelungenlied, Chretien de Troyes' Arthurian Romances, Tale of the Campaign of Igor, Beowulf, Sir Gawain...

>philosophy became reasonable

Augustine, Boethius, Anselm, Maimonides, William of Ockham, Aquinas, Duns Scotus...


I am almost certain you haven't read any one of those things and are one of those idiot students who believe shit like Shakespeare and Milton are the best and greatest of all time because muh canon!

[Anonymous No.6365799]

>>6365777
>my source? check this, bitch!

[Anonymous No.6365800]

Because very little trading of products or knowledge or anything was done; people lived inside small self-sustaining communities.

[Anonymous No.6365804]

>>6365781
I hope you're trolling, because the Comedy is a work of the Middle Ages, my friend.

[Anonymous No.6365805]

>>6365800
Where?

Vikings traded extensively, so did Byzantines and old greek states. As well as in the Holy Roman Empire.

[Anonymous No.6365820]

>>6365795

No, I base it on things I don't think are very consistent in religious arguments. Of course, you, probably being a Catholic drone, don't accept anything that isn't approved by the Pope, like heliocentrism, or stopping pedophiles

[Anonymous No.6365825]

>>6365820
Nice meme

[Anonymous No.6365835]

>>6365820
I'll do you a favor sport, stop posting now before fedora pictures will destroy the rest of this thread.

[Anonymous No.6365839]

>>6365699
>>6365736
>Didn't provide citations to support why Middle Age theologians who studied the Greeks who are pretty reasonable.

>Asks for citations for a post that said otherwise

kek, what is the point of citations in both your posts anyway? They are both literally opinions

[Anonymous No.6365842]

>>6365820
No need to resort to petty polemic, Anon.
That being said, I am not a Christian either and my knowledge of their thought is rather limited I'm afraid, but it's always a good idea to read about things you disagree with.

[Anonymous No.6365844]

>>6365835
Different guy but how is that any kind of threat?

[Anonymous No.6365867]

>>6365680
The Renaissance was a period of stagnation for philosophy, this is well known. They jerked off too much over ancient literature and rhetoric but didn't really have original ideas.

[Anonymous No.6365888]

The suppression of the Greek philosophical schools marked the end of the Classical era, and the selective study of theology and philosophy from that era that could be supported by scripture and its readings marked the middle ages.

The middle ages was not a scientific dark age because science had yet to emerge. It needed the correct assumptions about the universe to do so. The middle ages was a philosophical dark age that prevented that.

[Anonymous No.6365894]

>>6365888
The assumptions that started western science are thoroughly christian tho

[Anonymous No.6365908]

>>6365894
Going from god does this to god set this in motion is a retreat from christian, religious, or a theistic explanation.

[Anonymous No.6365929]

>>6365908
I'm not really sure what you're saying but God of the gaps was already totally rekt in the 13th century.


Read the scholastics, dude. You'll see how fucking based these guys were in logic and sound argumentation, and how they set the foundations for all of modern thought.

[Anonymous No.6365954]

>>6365773
Saved.

[Anonymous No.6365977]

>>6365929
>I'm not really sure what you're saying but God of the gaps was already totally rekt in the 13th century.

Elaborate please

[Anonymous No.6365981]

>>6365888
For fucks sake, it was conquering of Alexandra, Antioch, Egypt and Constantinople that marked the end of the classical era.

[Anonymous No.6365990]

>>6365747
>>6365674
>>6365664
Don't feed the bait

[Anonymous No.6365996]

"The Dark Ages" is a term created by Renaissance Italians referring to the Middle Ages. They called it as such because they believed that nothing good came from the time and so the true Golden Era was the time of the Romans. Of course anybody with half a brain would know this isn't true and anybody with a decent understanding of European history would know that the "Dark Ages" was quite an amazing period for intellectual works, literature and art.

[Anonymous No.6366007]

>>6365621
>Why is Middle Age considered a dark period when so many elements prove the opposite?
Define your terms first.

The 'Dark Ages' as referenced by real historians usually refers to the period from around 400 A.D. to around 900 A.D.

This was, indeed, a 'dark' age -- very little art, technology or any complex thinking happened during this time. The reason for this was a massive influx of hordes (literally) of dindu nuffin immigrants swamping what used to be the 'civilized' world. (On the upside, personal freedom was high during this time, the ancient dependence on large-scale slavery was mostly abolished.)

When plebs like the idiots commenting ITT reference 'the Middle Ages' what they really mean is 'before penicillin was invented', which is too retarded to even bother replying to.

[Anonymous No.6366042]

>>6365797
All of that literature sans Dante and Chaucer is extremely simple and uncultured, comparable to monophonic chant. Shakespeare and Milton are leagues more complex and interesting than any Saga

[Anonymous No.6366054]

>>6366042
Kill yourself, man

[Anonymous No.6366064]

>>6366042
>implying Dante isn't just a carbon copy on the indo-european tales and sagas of the after-life

[Anonymous No.6366067]

I learn so much in these threads. Thanks /lit/, you guys are the best.

[Anonymous No.6366068]

>>6366054
>>6366064
are you retarded

[Anonymous No.6366086]

>>6366068
Apparently you are, or you just haven't read the Laxdaela Saga or the Volsungasaga.

[Anonymous No.6366106]

>>6366086
plain prose about clan wars is not the same as extended metaphors, theology, and metaphysical rants in verse, sorry

[Anonymous No.6366162]

>>6365929
The catholic church literally lost math proofs of one of their best mathematicians.

Inept.

Scholastic methods were clearly inadequate to either produce science or its foundations.

[Anonymous No.6366179]

>read philosophy textbook
>1,000 year gap between the 400s-1400s
They were probably busy obeying the orders of their Monastic Superiors in all things

[Anonymous No.6366223]

>>6366179

No, anon, that's the sekrit illuminati jews censoring everything. In reality, the Dark Ages was like the Jetsons, only the sun was still revolving around the earth, as God intended it. Then the Jewluminati used jew magic to turn the two around, but luckily brave Catholic internet warriors in here still know the Truth and will, when Jesus returns to earth, come out of their mom's basements and usher in the new Catholic dawn

[Anonymous No.6366251]

>>6366179
Yo, protip: 'philosophy' is just sophisms for losers that can't into religion.

You've had 600 years to philosophize, and what did you end up with as a pinnacle of 'philosophy'? Fucking "syphilis faec" Nietzsche and fucking "bugchaser" Foucault.

[Anonymous No.6366365]

>>6365621
It's due to many of the trends of the time period (reaching it's lowest around 800-900) of general depopulation, deurbanization, decreased large scale trade, decreased size of life, and a decrease in the necessity of currency in trade.

Of course, there are significant source problems from much of Europe at the time, but generally it's viewed as a period of regression for society as a whole.

[Anonymous No.6366390]

>>6365621
Because of protestant propaganda.

http://amzn.com/1596981555

[Anonymous No.6366397]

>>6365677
pleb

[Anonymous No.6366479]

>>6366086
I suggest reading into Chinese hell scrolls as well.

[Anonymous No.6366510]

>>6365660
please. erryone slobknobs Augustine's crispy angst and Aquinas' autism, don't play victim, there are no Lions.

[Anonymous No.6367853]

How much did the scholastics actually innovate and how much of it was Aristotle?

[Anonymous No.6367901]

>>6365805
since the Mediterranean was no longer controlled by a single entity piracy and privateering increased something like 200% between 430 and 530 AD this was also true on land since the collapse of the proffessional army in europe (which had been an institution since the Marian reforms of 100 BC)where armies would now derive their pay from whatever they found in the lands they occupied.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367904]

>>6365621

I don't know?

Maybe it had something to do with all the disease and death?

[Anonymous No.6367908]

>>6367904

[Anonymous No.6367910]

>>6367904
Thank God for the filter plugin.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367920]

>>6367908
>>6367910

People who would have an excuse for Chlorosis before, don't have one now.

Consider that and get some iron and vitamins, instead of caring about a time where you threw shit out your window

[Anonymous No.6367923]

>>6367920
Not until you stop shitting up this board.

[Anonymous No.6367926]

>>6367920

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367928]

>>6367923

Get Rheumatism

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367932]

>>6367926

Get Sloes

[Anonymous No.6367934]

>>6367928
>>6367932
>yfw

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367936]

>>6367934

Did you know while Europe was in the dark ages, the rest of the world was doing pretty swell?

Wonder why they call it the Dark Ages?

[Anonymous No.6367941]

>>6367936
>>6365667

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367949]

>>6367941

European history is an uninteresting sister of East Asian history.

[Anonymous No.6367955]

Because the political authority of the current ruling classes is based on the dismantling of medieval power structures such as feudal nobility, Church and guilds.

See: Dissolution of the Monasteries, Revolt in the Vendee, Carlist Wars.

[Anonymous No.6367959]

>>6367949
>Oy vey European history is very terrible and boring goyim!

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367972]

>>6367955

States are states. I don't see how one in the past can be any better than one in the present. They all are shit, but Feudalism is certainly shit.

>>6367959

No, I mean European history is mind numbingly boring. Chinese History especially is far more interesting, and involves some of the same elements.

I suppose you could call me a jew because I'd rather befriend ten than speak to some greasy British nationalist crying about the loss of the most disgusting shit filled Island of Europe.

[Anonymous No.6367977]

>>6366042
That's your opinion man, certainly Medieval literature is more influential than Renaissance literature. Who cares about Orlando Furioso nowadays.

PS: Shakespeare and Milton are not Renaissance. I notice that people nowadays extend the notion of Renaissance to pretend it wasn't a pretty sterile age in anything outside visual arts. Originally, the Renaissance was 15th century Italy and only that, but once people realize that this period was quite dry in literature and philosophy they extended it to the 14th century to include Dante and to the 16th (and even 17th!!) centuries to include Montaigne and Shakespeare.

>philosophy became reasonable

Yes, because mystic hacks such as Pico della Mirandola, Paracelsus and Marsilio Ficino were more reasonable than Robert Grossetest, Roger Bacon and William of Ockham.

[Anonymous No.6367989]

>>6367972

[Anonymous No.6367994]

>>6366042
Are you insane? Most Shakespeare and Milton are just English copies of old shit. But I doubt you've actually read any Early-High medieval literature and are just talking out of your ass.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6367996]

>>6367989

Here I'll help you.

[Anonymous No.6368001]

>>6367996

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368012]

>>6368001

You know what's even worse? Even the Jews have a more interesting history than Europe. So do the Muslims. So does Africa. So do the Native Americans. It was only until Europe became self conscious of its own uselessness that it became interesting.

Point to any place on the map and read its history and began to realize how boring you really are and why you should feel any sort of pride that you worship and island of inbred fucking shamans who's only example of megalithic work was fucking Stone Henge and other assorted rocks.

[Anonymous No.6368020]

>>6368012
Yes, we know you hate us.

[Anonymous No.6368022]

>>6367994
That's not the point shitbird, the poetry's the thing

[Anonymous No.6368024]

>>6365797
But Augustine and Boethius were from antiquity...

[Anonymous No.6368032]

>>6365888
>The suppression of the Greek philosophical schools marked the end of the Classical era
Goddamn this is silly.

[Anonymous No.6368037]

>>6368022
And nobody gives a fuck about how "complex" the poetry is except autistic philologists. A sane person would read the Song of Roland or the Prose Edda over half of Shakespeare's plays any day of the week.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368045]

>>6368020

Should I start listing down the beautiful monuments of England and Scotland and Ireland that weren't fucking rotting castles at this point? Not Roman ruins?

While the Egyptians were building fucking temples and Pyramids and their own mythology the Slavs couldn't even fucking pass down history aside from oral tradition and you were fucking Shamans were standing Rocks on their sides for calenders.

But that's Stone Henge. Other examples are just rocks you carved to put on top of fucking Rocks. Were it not for the Romans there wouldn't be an England. You'd be in the same position as the fucking Native Americans.

If we're going to take your nationalist shit seriously in any way, maybe it's because the people of Britain are so mind numbingly incompetent everyone naturally takes advantage of them because they're the penultimate useful idiot.

Had Africa not existed, the first place anyone would go for slave labor would have probably been the British Isles.

[Anonymous No.6368046]

>>6367959
Don't fool yourself, Christianity has been the biggest poison of Judaic morality ever hoisted on a European. Only now are we ridding ourselves of the Jew.

Also Nietzsche didn't have syphilis, that's been disproven for decades.

[Anonymous No.6368075]

>>6368045
Why do you hate the goyim so much? What did the poor goy ever do you?

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368091]

>>6368075

If you were smart you'd realize Jewish people can't say God.

But anyways, I hate all the goyim of the land because...? I don't know, you seem pretty knowledgeable on everyone and everything. Why don't you explain to me why I hate the goys.

[Anonymous No.6368097]

>>6368091
Probably has something to do with your genetics.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368104]

>>6368097

And can you explaint he mutation that occurred several generations down my unholy genealogy that lead me to manipulate the world to become Marxist lesbian degenerates bent on world domination?

Elaborate. Let's talk mythology.

[Anonymous No.6368107]

>>6368045
Loloollol your a special Kind of idiot.
Btw I fucked ur mum
ps lol

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368111]

>>6368107

An example of the unmatched British Mind

[Anonymous No.6368113]

>>6368104
Have you read Chaucer?

[Anonymous No.6368133]

>>6368111
whats the point of using a trip?


Ash Checkem

[Anonymous No.6368139]

>>6368133
>>6368133
Good double.

[Anonymous No.6368169]

>>6365736
>Cherry-picking
>implying early Middle Age thinkers had the luxury of "cherry-picking" when so many first sources were lost


Why don't you simply refrain from posting if you really don't know what you are talking about ?

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368171]

>>6368113

No I haven't to be honest. I'm mostly educated in Eastern European/Russian literature, Mediterranean literature, British literature past in the 19th and 20th century. Even African literature. I was shitting out a lot of hyperbole, I'm sorry about that. I've no doubt that there were talented people throughout Britain.

But the amount of obvious nationalist worship of anything Anglo is preposterous because there are plenty of other examples throughout the world and throughout time that irritate me to hell how arrogant it is.

And it's obvious which threads are nationalist filled and which aren't. It's irritating not because I have some vendetta against nationalists, though you are annoying fucks, it's because there's literature throughout the world and focusing only on a certain region for nationalist reasons is shit.

It's also obvious like other parts of the internet you want to steer discussion away from other cultures because of the bullshit idea discussing them is culutral marxist invasive multicultural shit, and it's mind blowing because history has always been focused on Anglo literature, and now you ahve access to any part of the world in literature, and it's the same shit. And you really want to keep it that way.

It's irritating as fuck, which is why, I despise Nationalists creeping in on literature.

If you want to have your political opinions on literature itself, fine be my guest, have your reactionary views on how we're all separate beings bent on taking advantage of pristine Europe, but when there's active effort to suppress the discussion of other world literature it becomes agenda.

[Anonymous No.6368174]

>>6368171
>No I haven't to be honest

Then you have no business being ITT.

[Anonymous No.6368188]

>>6368174
>he hasn't read a tangential author that I have read
>i won't listen to him
>quality discussion

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368191]

>>6368174

For all the talent you claim you have you still people still couldn't come up with food to save your life besides bread

[Anonymous No.6368197]

>>6368188
>Chaucer
>tangential

>>6368191
Quit being a putz.

[Anonymous No.6368202]

>>6368169
What caused all those first sources to be lost?

[Anonymous No.6368212]

>>6368202
Roving bands of barbarians sacking the shit out of the Roman Empire (which was already collapsing by itself during the Crisis of the Third Century).

[Anonymous No.6368216]

>>6368202

war. horde invasions burning valuable libraries.

[Anonymous No.6368234]

>>6368212
>>6368216

How did they manage to sack the libraries of Constantinople? Wouldnt a huge amount of sources exist there?

[Anonymous No.6368237]

Let's get some things out of the way especially conserning some revisionism concerning authors such as >>6365667

Scholasticism IS NOT Aristotelianism.

Augustine IS NOT Plato

William of Ockam DID NOT invent universals or nominalism.

Yet the Christian who has long had profound ignorance over philosophical matters wonders why a philosopher would call the middle-ages a stump in the history of thought.

The reason why they were the dark ages was because the Classical Age i.e. the idea that we can judge the world around us through REASON and not faith, and to evaluate it with reagards to the human standarts of measure, disappeared and died. The Christian theology unstead perpetuated a vicious cycle of irrational philosophical specultism that would take up untill Kant's Critique of Pure Reason to be done away with.

To cut a long story short:


Greek Thought ≠ Christian Theology

[Anonymous No.6368241]

>>6365888

Except the Medievals were the most rigorous we had until the 20th century. Everyone was bloody awful at logic from the second half of the 14th century on until Frege. Leibniz was one of the few early modern Philosophers who even could do proper logic and that's because he studied the Scholastics.

John Buridan and Ockham both had already started setting the stage for modern thought in the 14th century, with their empiricism, denial that faith and reason could be reconciled, and most serious historians notice that even Galileo's works were often derived from late Meideval sources, which he advanced upon. There was no sudden scientific explosion where we suddenly abandoned Aristoteleanism and started moving towards mechanistic Philosophy, it was an extremely gradual shift and the 15th and 16th centuries were periods of Philosophical stagnation if we compare those periods to all the groundwork that was being laid before that in the 13th and 14th century.

>>6367977
Good man. People need to actually study the period before they talk shit.

>>6365894

This, so much of the mechanistic Philosophy that would become modern science came from pious Christians rejecting the Pagan Philosophy of Aristotle and finding new solutions to old problems. The Condemnation of 1277 was particularly important for the shift we get towards modern Philosophy that we get a bit of in Duns Scotus, and to a greater degree in Ockham. One issue had by these new Philosophers was intermediary metaphysical entities that did causal and explantory work, since God was omnipotent and he ought not to need any intermediaries,God ought to have been able to do everything with the simplest means possible, so guys like Boyle started positing that all there was( at least that we could know about and was worth thinking about) was fundamental atoms moving according to a very small set of laws determined by God. Ockham's Razor demands that we always posit the simplest solution to solve a problem ( we still use this in science) as one God who does everything is a far less bloated explanation than tons of metaphysical entities.

To this day we still follow the assumption of the uniformity of nature( in that nature can be fully unified into a set of axioms) and natural "laws" ( which we still mostly treat as ultimately contingent because God could have made them/ they could have been otherwise- as opposed to the metaphysical necessity we get of natural behavior forming laws we get with some dispositional accounts of "laws", which is unpopular and Aristotelean) because we originally posited a divine created who ordered the world. From this very minimal base God was supposed to have been able to cause all the diverse phenomena in the world. Scientific discovery was about gaining a greater understanding of how God worked. Science is philosophically rooted in Christian and often Protetsant revolt against Aristotle in the late Middle Ages and "Catholic Paganism".

[Anonymous No.6368242]

>>6368234

The Western monks would never have been given access to that library.

[Anonymous No.6368245]

>>6367853

It was all Aristotle.

They tied some inexplicable christian bullshit with Aristotles unmoved mover.

[Anonymous No.6368246]

>>6368234
Constantinople was sacked later, in 1204 and 1453.

Actually, one of the traditional interpretations of the Renaissance is that it was kickstarted by fleeing Byzantine scholars who went to Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_scholars_in_the_Renaissance

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368251]

>>6368197

Aside from historical material, and I do agree it is all fascinating, it has no potential use outside of that. For the longest time Britain was all well and good, but the British Empire occured and much of the world went to shit, as it was already going to shit.

You have places with rich amounts of history that are totally ignored, and you then have nationalists talking about how beautiful and full of history Britain is, automatically, on top of the bias I just was speaking of.

What this ends in, is a perpetual associating of literature with Anglo, when that is not accurate.

Not even other parts of Europe come to mind when you speak of the Dark Ages, yet they were in a much darker place being brutalized by Barbarians post the fall of Rome.

Why do you think I shouldn't be in this thread, when I haven't read Chauncer, when you've hardly even read any kind of Bulgarian literature, let alone know the existence of societies like Kievan Rus'.

Which is the problem with nationalist bias, again.

Also, while I agree Shepard's Pie is great, you stole Tea right from the hands of East Asia, and you're responsible for shit like Buckling when you invaded the world for spices. At the very least when you take over the planet for spice, you could use it.

[Anonymous No.6368261]

>>6368251

Holy shit you take a long time to say nothing. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.6368262]

>>6368242
Why would that be the case? Likewise why were the sources lost in the East as well?

>>6368246
But that is the issue though these sackings occurred well after the dark ages. Which doesn't add up to the claims in the earlier posts.

[Anonymous No.6368278]

>>6368261

[Anonymous No.6368279]

>>6368262

To be honest the Eastern and Western rites had limited contact post Rome until later into the Middle Ages. When they did reconnect they realised that they had vastly different interpretations of Christianity and things were strained.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368283]

>>6368261

I doubt you've even heard of the Preslav Literary School.

>>6368278

"Anyone who writes anything extended is a lying jew you should not relate to in fear they are deceiving you the same way they deceive lesbians and the blacks"

[Anonymous No.6368285]

>>6368262
First, Constantinople was founded only in the 4th century, in the century before, Gothic invasions had ravishes much of the Greek lands so many sources were already lost. Not counting things like the destruction of the Academy in Athens during Sulla's siege, or the multiples burnings of Alexandria, or the sack of Antioch by Shapur I etc... I'm sure you want to say "the Christians burned all the books" but there is no evidence for that, while there is plenty of evidence of cities that housed many books being destroyed even before Christianity became influential.

And second, the "Dark Ages" as a relevant historiographical period refers only to Western Europe. In the Byzantine Empire many of the cultural, and even infrastructure of the Roman period continued. So while in the West everyone forgot how to build a decent aqueduct in Constantinople they were still built.

But you will say, there was a decline in Greek science during the Christian period. Yes, there was, but this decline also predates Christianity. Most cultural booms just burn out after a time, it has happened with everyone...

[Anonymous No.6368286]

>>6368283

[Anonymous No.6368297]

>>6368237

You should actually study the period before you make comments about it.

Peter Abelard invented Nominalism actually, and no one ever claimed that Ockham invented Universals.

Aquinas believed that both Faith and Reason were from God that they ultimately would never contradict each other due to their own nature, if one could not reconcile them that was their own fault and hence some things did have to be taken on faith due to human weakness.

Now he did admit that we had to speak of God's properties as only analogous to our properties, and yet Scotus on the other hand came in and posited the Univocity of God: that because we always must start with creatures to lead us to understanding of God, that the terms we use for creatures and God are one and the same, he denied any sort of divine illumination was required, and was quite convinced that we could support the faith on fully rational grounds, he even made a work to justify the immaculate conception rationally.

It was also required by the schools that you have a strong understanding of logic if you even wanted to get into Theology, something that died out by the Renaissance and lead to allot of sketchy and poorly reasoned Philosophy until the late 19th century, where the Medeivals were incredibly rigorous and systematic thinkers. Go actually read Duns Scotus some time, his work is miles ahead of anything until Frege other than maybe Leibniz.

[Anonymous No.6368300]

>>6368285
>this decline also predates Christianity

Pic related. Compare the 500BC to 200BC period with the period following 100AD. There was already a decline before Christianity and actually Greek mathematics got a small revival under the Christian Empire.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368302]

>>6368286

[Anonymous No.6368305]

>>6368285

This. The monks went to great lengths in preserving Roman documents. In fact much of what the Renaissance was left of Roman documents were actually Christian reprints done by Frankish or British monks commissioned by a few very interested monarchs.

The Italians didn't know this and actually believed they were from the time.

[Anonymous No.6368307]

>>6368216
Ancient Greek and Latin literature was originally written on papyrus scrolls, which had a shelf life of about 300 years or so (Scribes and Scholars, pg. 34). As such, when copies were not made of a particular manuscript, it would gradually deteriorate over time until eventually being lost. Classicists now estimate that approximately 95-99% of all literature produced in antiquity was lost in this way [3].

There was, however, a major exception to this trend: Christian texts, and particularly those of the New Testament. After the fall of the Roman Empire, church monks took over the process of transmitting and preserving ancient texts. Not surprisingly, these monks had a greater interest in preserving Christian texts over Pagan ones. Accordingly Reynolds and Wilson (Scribes and Scholars, pg. 34) explain: “There can be be little doubt that one of the major reasons for the loss of classical texts is that most Christians were not interested in reading them"

[Anonymous No.6368311]

>>6368302

[Anonymous No.6368312]

>>6368285
Why do you insist on putting words into my mouth?

>First, Constantinople was founded only in the 4th century, in the century before, Gothic invasions had ravishes much of the Greek lands so many sources were already lost. Not counting things like the destruction of the Academy in Athens during Sulla's siege, or the multiples burnings of Alexandria, or the sack of Antioch by Shapur I etc... I'm sure you want to say "the Christians burned all the books" but there is no evidence for that, while there is plenty of evidence of cities that housed many books being destroyed even before Christianity became influential.

If this implies that most of the sources were lost before the dark ages then how were these sources able to be rediscovered later on?


>Yes, there was, but this decline also predates Christianity. Most cultural booms just burn out after a time, it has happened with everyone...

Why must this be the case

[Anonymous No.6368315]

>>6368234
The Byzantine Empire wasn't damaged to the same extent as the Western Roman Empire, actually there was much more continuity between late Antiquity and the Middle Age in that part of the world. The term Dark Ages, if Dark Ages there were (probably around 600-900 AD as others have noted) mostly applies to the Western part of Europe (Western means west of Italy here, Italy included).

It's rather amusing to note that most of what we call the Renaissance in painting and sculpture happened precisely in those countries that were damaged by barbarians invasions, in Byzantine territory art stayed comparably more conservative longer.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368320]

>>6368311

One last thing, do you really believe that there is a global Jewish conspiracy? I'm curious.

[Anonymous No.6368323]

>>6368307

It conveniently leaves out the burning of countless cities. OK.

[Anonymous No.6368330]

>>6368312
>how were these sources able to be rediscovered later on

Pretty much luck.

[Anonymous No.6368331]

>>6368320
Obviously.

[Anonymous No.6368338]

>>6368320
Jews are everywhere in the world and are very ethnocentric and nepotistic. They tend to climb easily to positions of power and stay there. Also, their culture and worldview is the same everywhere they settle, just as the way they relate and think of the people that surround them.

If there isn't a conspiracy, maybe it's just that there is something in Jewish culture that makes them act, naturally, in a conspiratorial way.

[Anonymous No.6368346]

>>6368338
Good post.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368360]

>>6368331
>>6368338
>>6368346

So you find yourselves threatened by other Nationalists capable of the same drives as you, when you're known to take advantage of situations anyways.

Interesting. So you've found a flaw with Nationalism.

[Anonymous No.6368361]

>>6368305
Don't forget the Irish.

You realize that the whole notion of "Christianity caused the dark ages" is bullshit when you see how Ireland, which was never part of the Roman Empire and was pretty much a barbarian shithole until Christianization managed to become in a few decades a major centre of Greco-Roman civilization of the Dark Ages.

When the Carolingians decided to restore classical education with the trivium they got their teachers in Ireland. Guys like Dicuil, Vergilius of Salzburg, Dungal of Bobbio, Johannes Scotus Eriugena etc

Many sources must have been preserved in Irish monasteries. But of course the Vikings burned everything so whatever.

[Anonymous No.6368368]

>>6368361

>Don't forget the Irish

I actually know very little about the Irish during this time. That's really interesting.

[Anonymous No.6368374]

>>6367853

Abelard invented the De Dicto, De Re, distinction.

Al-Ghazali said everything Hume would say about causation far earlier than he would, and brought back atomism with new arguments for it.

Ockham set the stage for modern science with his empiricism, Ockham's Razor and division of faith from reason.

Aquinas mostly took Aristotle's side but he disagreed with Aristotle on several key points. For example, Aristotle believed that the universe logically was required to have existed for an infinite ammount of time, Aquinas allong with Maimonides were the first to make really strong arguments for the possibility of the universe not going back infinitely in time.

Duns Scotus for the first time posited a whole new ontology that broke from Aristotelean naturalism and instead was based on God's Will. He also developed the concept of Haecceity, which is still important in metaphysics to this day.

Like all good philosophers they built on their predecessors because they took them seriously, overcoming them in many cases.

[Anonymous No.6368378]

>>6368312
>If this implies that most of the sources were lost before the dark ages then how were these sources able to be rediscovered later on?

Read the others post itt. Most of the "rediscovered" texts were only lost in Western Europe, but were still passed down in Constantinople. There weren't enough contacts between scholars on both sides of Europe at the time (it's like travelling was so easy) so the existence of some texts preserved on one side was ignored by the other side.

[Anonymous No.6368381]

>>6368360
Except here's the thing: goy nationalists are willing to be openly confrontational with their enemies. Kikes rely on trickery and deception to achieve their ends which is certainly their prerogative (and makes sense considering their average physical inferiority). However, they shouldn't be surprised when the other races do not trust them.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368407]

>>6368381

Not at all. Jewish Nationalists and White Nationalists operate usually on the same level, except White Nationalists tend to lack any kind of morality and are usually more-so manipulative.

The biggest example you have of White Nationalist control is 20th century Facism. Of course, even more so, with Hispanic Nationalism. The coups that took out South American Marxists countries were replaced by reactionaries you know, brutal people, doesn't need to be said.

You're just finding flaws within Nationalism itself, you just actively target Jewish Nationalism and paint it all across Jews themselves, because Judaism has a Nationalistic subtext in regards to Israel.

There's really no difference. White Nationalists operate mostly in the underground, and if there were more documented history behind it in the underground of the 20th and 21st century, you'd clearly find much more overlap between your idea of the scheming evil jewish puppet master and the various gangs of White Nationalism.

You could point out the Klu Klux Klan, that doesn't need to be said. You also have gangs like the Hell's Angels, you have all sorts of shit.

You really need to see the error of your ways, because if you actively engage in communities like that, you're going to be taken advantage of just as much as you fear you really are. You're being sold on a premise that sounds plausible enough where you can naturally connect dots that were never there.

[Anonymous No.6368420]

>>6365655

the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. The Dark Ages absolutely happened but they did not last as long nor were they as devastating as previously thought. The gradual collapse of the Western Roman Empire was followed by massive urban decay and subsequent decline in crafts, a decline in literacy, and a huge decrease in number of minted coins (likely meaning economic trauma).

[Anonymous No.6368591]

>The Dark Ages
>Not a progressive era

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance

[Anonymous No.6368786]

>>6368407
Here's my honest opinion of Jewish people; they're an entire race of idiot savants. Jews are obviously very intelligent but they are completely autistic when it comes to dealing with other races. Things like banking and accounting are perfect examples of how the Jewish brain works; they require impressive computational analysis but are relatively useless skills from a "practical" perspective. Of course, banking and accounting have become ingrained components of our society (coincidence?) so we need Jews around to maintain the massive economy that we have created.

However, it is good to constantly remind Jews that there will be consequences if they do not keep their autism in check because as smart as Jews are, they suck at fighting and need other races to do it for them. It's good to have the Jews on your side because they're so smart but you have to remind them who's boss so they don't let their innate sneakiness lead them to do something that they'll later regret; like killing Jesus Christ for example. Once you understand the Jew's innate autism you no longer hate them, you pity them because you realize that they really can't help themselves for being Jews, they're born with it. Once you understand that a Jew will always be a Jew, you learn to accept it and plan around it and make use of their talents.

God bless.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6368797]

>>6368786

Well, that's your honest opinion.

[Anonymous No.6368813]

>>6368285
>the Christians burned all the books

More like the Christians took over and broke Greek thought. Murder of Hypatia broke the Library of Alexandria more than any fires.

[Anonymous No.6368817]

>>6368786
>wat is marketing
>wat is advertising
>wat is screenwriting
>wat is stand-up comedy
>wat is business

You obviously haven't met many upper-middle class urban dwelling jews. And yes, they exist, they're actually the Jews /pol thinks all Jews are like (not that /pol has any real expertise on Jews).

I'm half-jewish, I have met over a thousand jews in my life, from a billionaire's son to a third-rate clerk. There are more marketing/pr/advertising/communication wunderkid wannabes among the upcoming generation than would-be mathematicians or engineers.

[Anonymous No.6368825]

>>6368797
I like you. You make me feel things. . .

I'm praying for you.

>>6368817
My friend, I grew up exactly around those families.

[Anonymous No.6368831]

>>6368813
>propagating silly Enlightenment myths
>suscribing to simple-minded idealism
>2015

Hypatia was never that important and her murder was more part of a political power-play than a religioud matter anyway. People in the eighteenth century jerked over this story because it appeared to examplify their ideas on religion, and because they figured sexy youthful Hypatia crushed at the height of her beauty and intelligence (she was actually over fifty when she died).

Speaking of "persecutions", how come nobody ever brings up Emperor Julian's edict against christian teaching in grammar schools ?

You need to pick up your readings more considerately, and to read them more critically.

[Anonymous No.6368846]

>>6368825
Then how can you claim they suck at interacting with others races and aren't fit for practical purposes ? Those families are the ultimate practical philistines (along with WASP business-class families, of course).

[Anonymous No.6368859]

>>6368813
>Murder of Hypatia broke the Library of Alexandria more than any fires

No modern historian thinks this.

[Anonymous No.6368885]

>>6368786
>>6368407
>>6368381
>>6368360
>>6368346
>>6368331
>>6368320
>>/pol/

stop baiting and stop biting the bait, this is a literature board, let's discuss history and literature.

[Anonymous No.6368899]

>>6368846
You're ultimately correct but I wasn't attempting to present a nuanced argument. I was expressing how the Jewish "otherness" fells to us goyim. We know what you guys say about us. Listen man, I'm obsessed with the Psalter and let me tell you that if those psalms aren't interpreted to apply to all races of mankind (rather than just the so-called "chosen") then it would produce a race of psychopaths who feel like they have divine right to rule everyone else; these people are called kikes.

[Anonymous No.6368901]

>>6368831
It still doesn't change that the fact that her death led to a lot of pagan intellectuals to fled the city, sure the library was already in decline, but after her death it might as well be dead. She was murdered brutally, showing how far the status of a librarian has fallen in the face of religious fervor

And the political power play is between a bishop sent by the Church to convert Alexandria between a Roman governor (who was christian) holding on to harmony between the religious groups. It is disingenuous to simply call it 'political'. The bishop by the way became a saint.

Besides the main point bothering me is often people claimed Christianity preserved Greek thought, but they had a hand too in its decline.

[Anonymous No.6368903]

>>6368885
We are.

[Anonymous No.6368931]

>>6368903
No, you are not, you are shitposting conspiracy theory (we have /pol/ for this) and the other guy is swallowing your bait.
Shitposters from /pol/ doesn't even read books, they come here to quote copypastas and obstruct rational thinking.

[Anonymous No.6368939]

>>6368931
What you dismiss as a "conspiracy theory" has a historical basis.

[Anonymous No.6368940]

What is anon's opinion on this guy?

[Anonymous No.6368947]

>>6368939
According to History Channel, ufology also have.
But I will just ignore your baits.

[Anonymous No.6368950]

>>6368947
According to Holy Scripture.

[Anonymous No.6368959]

>>6368947
>>6368950
pls respond.

[Anonymous No.6368998]

>>6368940
>>6368591
Bump

[Anonymous No.6369027]

>>6368899
Jewish "otherness" is a myth propagated by antisemits and alimented by jews who feel comforted in a sense of exceptionality by it. Ultimately the jews, as we understand them, is but one of the many European-Middle-Eastern tribes that have shaped the history of the West over the past 5000 years. They're like the various kinds of Italians, the Goths, the Saxons or the Franks, just smaller an easier to single out. I had a conversation with my Jewish uncle today, he told me: "As long as you believe in God and follow the seven most important commands that nearly everyone follows (no stealing, murdering, etc..) you should be fine, not everybody needs to be a Jew".

[Anonymous No.6369040]

>>6365621
>the fall of the Roman Empire
>vikings
>the plague kills 2/3s of Europe
>the crusades
>no advancements in medicine, mathematics, philosophy, or printing until the Enlightenment
take your pick

[Anonymous No.6369057]

>>6365667
nice meme bruh xD

[Anonymous No.6369074]

>>6369040
>fall of the roman empire
Apparently 476 AD encompassed 1,000 years of human history

>vikings
only affected barren wastelands anyway, had very little overall impact on Europe at large

>the plague
see two points above

>the crusades
nothing wrong with this unless you're a 16 year old bleeding heart

>no advancements in medicine, mathematics, philosophy, or printing until the Enlightenment
shit, why did i just waste my time responding to bait?

[Anonymous No.6369103]

>one quick glance at this shit
/pol/: the thread

[Anonymous No.6369111]

>>6369103
it's not pol that's the problem, it's the tripfagging redditors who bait them

[Anonymous No.6369123]

>>6366223
underrated post

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6369125]

>>6369111

No I'm pretty sure it's the white nationalists that are the problem. But what do I know?

[Anonymous No.6369135]

>>6369074
>Apparently 476 AD encompassed 1,000 years of human history
When Rome fell Europe thought the world was literally coming to an end and it could happen tomorrow. When general consensus was that Ancient Rome was so advanced they were practically on the same level of Atlantis and that sort of society was unobtainable, yeah, the fall of Rome was sort of a big deal that lasted a long fucking time.

>only affected barren wastelands anyway
or the entirety of the UK. They were a big enough problem that the Romans sent soldiers across the known world to fight them.

>see two points above
yeah the death of 2/3s of Europe wasn't that big a deal, right? Society just picked itself right back up.

>nothing wrong with the crusades
yeah, the Pope rallying Europe to slaughter every man, woman, and child in Jerusalem and every city near it wasn't a big deal.

>why did i just waste my time responding to bait?
Ditto.

[Anonymous No.6369148]

>>6369135
Good to see you attended high school history class and know the essential 5 Reasons to prove that the Middle Ages were Dark.

[Anonymous No.6369176]

>>6369148
Good to see that you... didn't, apparently.

No, seriously, tell me how amazing Thomas Aquinas' proof for the existence of angels was revolutionary and totally comparable to invention of the number zero.

[Anonymous No.6369221]

>>6369125
Not much!

[Anonymous No.6369238]

>>6369074
>nothing wrong with this unless you're a 16 year old bleeding heart

The Crusades were just an excuse to put the surplus male population to work to prevent social instability. Take all those hungry mouths and march them out of the country to go get killed by some foreigners and if they happen to survive and bring back some treasure, just send them out again.

[Anonymous No.6369241]

>>6369238

[Anonymous No.6369252]

>>6369176

>>6368374

At least read the Philosophers of that time period before you dismiss them. Also printing had it's advancement right at the end of the Middle Ages/Reformation era with the Gutenberg Press, that was a ways away from the enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.6369255]

>>6365820
>this is what christians actually believe

[Anonymous No.6369284]

>>6369241
There's nothing really wrong with that by the standards of the time. Nothing else you could really do with all those people. Just saying that's one of the biggest reasons for it, moreso than any real desire to claim land in the Middle East. If every last Crusader had just died and never returned home the Crusades would still have been a success.

[Anonymous No.6369295]

>>6369284

[Anonymous No.6369369]

>>6368237
>the idea that we can judge the world around us through REASON and not faith, and to evaluate it with reagards to the human standarts of measure, disappeared and died

...what the fuck? where are you getting this from?

[Anonymous No.6369409]

>>6369369

He never actually read Philosophy from that period, he probably got that off of reddit.

[Anonymous No.6369529]

middle ages was absolute shit tier in literature.

[Anonymous No.6370007]

>>6368241
People always bring up Ockham as a great medieval thinker in countering the Dark Ages idea, which makes it worthwhile to note that he himself was charged with heresy and had to take refuge with the Holy Roman Emperor after condemning the pope's views on poverty. Some people seem at risk of swinging the pendulum too far back in correcting misconceptions, it's indisputable that the Church did suppress views it found unpalatable.

[Anonymous No.6370030]

>>6365680

>Music became interesting in the renaissance

Really? It continued to engorge in itself and encroached into the inescapable abyss of equal temperament and disregard for fundamental laws of sound.

If anything, we owe rennaisance the present decadence of music.

[Anonymous No.6370344]

>>6368037
Hey. Shakespeare's plays have their faults but they're legitimately pretty great. I mean he's no god, but neither is Marlowe or Kyd or the Tragedians or any playwright.

[Anonymous No.6370721]

>>6368012
>Africa has more interesting history than Yurop
This shitposting.

[Anonymous No.6370729]

>>6365680
>Because it's during the Renaissance

That was only because all interesting Renaissance musicicians were black.

[Anonymous No.6370751]

>>6370729
Kek

>>6370030
Actually it became very detailed using polyphony to extraordinary heights and some techniques not used again until the 19th because of their complexity (the avant-garde found use for them).


>>6368037
Holy shit, no they wouldn't, Shakespeare and any other baroque/renaissance era writer is endlessly more entertaining and beautiful than medieval literature; med. literature may have great stories, I for one loved Njal's Saga, but you shouldn't let your agenda to promote the dark ages affect your common sense. Shakespeare has been loved since the days he lived, performed widely and with love for his poetic language and his psychological insight. If you actually think the Song of Roland is better than Hamlet, it's not my fault you're an uncultured retard who can't see the difference between plot and plot with artistic sensibilities.

[Anonymous No.6372611]

>>6370007

Yes, John Buridan was forced to burn his works, all we have is a few fragments( for Philosophical reasons too, since he was devout, part of it was that the Medeival just thought that skepticism in the Cartesian sense was lunacy and harmful). But still my claim is against the people who think that the Philosophers in the Middle Ages were no good, because they were fantastic and the Church's rule IMO seems to have done more good than harm intellectually, considering how fantastic most of these thinkers were, maybe it was just the side effect of monastic discipline working its way into study habits and logical rigor, rather than the content the church was pushing. One benefit to the system was that when Philosophers could say that it was acceptable to accept something on faith, you could simply point out that a church doctrine did not comply to reason when it did'nt, because that was'nt a problem. Rationalists are often willing to adopt bad arguments to support their views because they don't want to admit that they hold them on faith, there is a degree of Philosophical honesty which is preserved better when you don't think that everything you believe needs to be grounded on reason or else it is wrong.

[Anonymous No.6372627]

>>6365621
when they say dark they mean because of all the poop everywhere, I mean fucking all medieval writers and painters talk about is literal poop

[Anonymous No.6372648]

>>6365761
XD

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372677]

[Anonymous No.6372708]

>>6365667
>"the period from 1000 to 1500 AD actually saw the most impressive flowering of scientific inquiry and discovery since the time of the ancient Greeks, far eclipsing the Roman and Hellenic Eras in every respect."

That last part sounds like bullshit, and wasn't the Hellenic period more notable for scientific inquiry and discovery than the classical Greek period, and wasn't the Roman period the most notable out of any of them for the practical application of this knowledge?

[Anonymous No.6372725]

>>6372677

[Anonymous No.6372726]

>>6372627
That's not poo, that's the stigmata. The woman is clearly praying.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372731]

>>6372725
http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/

[Anonymous No.6372733]

>>6372725
With poos you lose

[Anonymous No.6372745]

>>6372731

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372753]

>>6372745

Why are you automatically assuming that bitter Dark Enlightenment nobodies with too much time on their hands constantly joking about the fucking Jews means the same as defending the state of Israel?

[Anonymous No.6372763]

>>6372753
Your kvetching is too delicious.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372769]

>>6372763

If there’s anybody here who remotely fits within the category of “degenerate” its yourself. I suggest you find the nearest active volcano and jump into it or maybe drown yourself in a toilet unless your tinfoil hat /pol/ shit made you think that’s a way for the jewish illuminati to control your beautiful and sacrosanct bodily fluids.

[Anonymous No.6372774]

>>6372769
I love you.

[SYK FUK RUKUS No.6372799]

>>6372769

Sounds awfully like something Foucault would have written. That being said, filtered.

[Anonymous No.6372823]

>>6365954

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372827]

>>6372799

If you get redpilled by someone who got redpilled by moldbug is there a special term for that? the bug guy is now your grandpill or something?

[Anonymous No.6372837]

>>6372827
>>6372769
I just wanted to say you're the first trip in a lot of time I don't wanna kill, and you're actively making this board better.

Today I saw butterfly recommend Kropotkin to someone, and I guess that's your "fault".

Thanks.

[SYK FUK RUKUS No.6372846]

>>6372827

I don't really know who the fuck moldburg is and I am only vaguely familliar with red-pill meme. I recommend wasting less time on such nonsense.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372847]

>>6372846

There is an entire untapped history you've missed out on

[Anonymous No.6372854]

>>6372827

Another insufferable tripfag, kill yourself already plox

[Anonymous No.6372855]

>>6372846
It's worth looking into, as long as you follow it up with Grover Furr and Anti-Revisionism. Together they're liberating.

[Foucault !!8WvUZxvX53M No.6372858]

>>6372854

>plox
plox

[Anonymous No.6372874]

>>6368940
A communist Jew writing about the Middle Ages? Nothing good can come from there.

[Anonymous No.6372879]

>>6370751
The Song of Roland is better than Orlando Furioso, though.

[Anonymous No.6373956]

To the people in this thread familiar with aquinas what are your thoughts on his position of believing in natural law?

[Anonymous No.6373993]

this thread is the epitome of modern /lit/

>Christian shitposting
>One or two serious posters are used as proxies for debate between ebek memers
>/pol/acks arrive
>tripfags arrive
>discussion devolves into memes
>serious discussion of medieval lit dies out

[Anonymous No.6375661]

>>6365621
black plague
islamic and barbaric invasions

[Anonymous No.6376347]

>>6366251
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH PLEASE DIE

[Anonymous No.6376365]

We live in a secular society. Secularists don't like the idea of a church ruling the world, so they will naturally describe the middle ages, which was dominated by the Catholic Church, as dark. Further, it is actually correct that Europe became less influential globally, and that society became less technologically advanced during the middle ages in terms of urban planning and infrastructure. There were technological advances in small scale production, but most large scale engineering projects fell into disrepair, as evidenced by the fact that many of the Aqueducts were destroyed and that even today we don't know many of the Roman techniques for building things.

[Anonymous No.6376385]

>>6366179
I was going to call your textbook shit for not mentioning St. Thomas Aquinas but then when I couldn't find a painting of him from before 1400 I realized you have a point.