/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6328035]

I'm diving strait into Marxism, and Neo-Marxism. I'm not at a university, so maybe you university cats have more details on who matters right now on the topics.

what are essential books/authors?

So far I've been thinking:

Capital - Marx
Marxism and Politics - R. Miliband
Poulantzas
Althusser
Godelier
EO-Wright, for class divisions in late-capitalism
Fredric Jameson - Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism
Lukacs
Harry Bravermen

Any essentials I'm leaving out?
I'd also like more suggestions related to unions.


Thanks guys.
(ps, im trying to avoid some of the more 'post-structuralist' types like foucault)

[Anonymous No.6328043]

for a political philosophy for the common man, there's an awful lot of long and tricky reading to do

[EvolaKid !vKJYJAzBlI No.6328044]

>>6328035
Don't bother
Reactionary writings are 1000% more /lit/ than petty leftist trash

[Anonymous No.6328047]

>>6328035
Adorno and Marcuse should definitely be on that list.
Also, Lenin.

[Anonymous No.6328054]

Depends on what you want from Marxism. I think (post-)Operaism sounds interesting. I would suggest reading up on the Situationist International as well.

[Anonymous No.6328064]

>>6328035
Guy Debord

[Anonymous No.6328066]

>>6328044
taking neizche at face value past high school? trying to extract serious political messages from lovecraft and lotr? but why

[Anonymous No.6328067]

>>6328044
>Twilight of the Idols

Such a reactionary list you've got there!

[Anonymous No.6328072]

>>6328054
I want to really get down the basics and ideas in detail, and the big debates down, and major strands. from there I'll probably head towards something like workerism or the specifics and tougher newer writers like Negri.

(i watched Hardt do a speech once how to make a revolution, shit was pretty weak :.( )

[Anonymous No.6328083]

>>6328035
>no Lenin

[Anonymous No.6328090]

>>6328083
>no Stalin ;-;

>no Mao :(

[Anonymous No.6328091]

>>6328043
>common man
>Marxism
Yes, I had a great conversation about Poulantzas' and Milibands theories of the capitalist state with the pizza delivery man yesterday. We just got started on Jameson's notion of postcolonial literature when his bourgeois parasite boss called him to another delivery.

[Anonymous No.6328134]

For a very clear explanation of the fundamentals of historical materialism, see GA Cohen's Defence of Marx's Theory of History, which is an attempt to develop Althusser's structural Marxism into something precise and defensible. EP Thompson's Making of the English Working Class is a good balance to Cohen's analytic approach. Both of these are available online.

But I'd get thru the three volumes of Capital first, then consider what to do.

"More suggestions related to unions" - depends on the unions you're interested in.

[Anonymous No.6328154]

btw, kind of a long shot here, but where would be the best place to study marxism in Canada?

maybe a sociology, or labour studies program?

>>6328134
thanks this sounds great

[Anonymous No.6328161]

>>6328134
>I'd get thru the three volumes of Capital first, then consider what to do.

Why does everyone on /lit/ assume everyone else in the world is NEET or autistic and has nothing better to do that work their way through several thousand pages of text?

OP, read "Why Read Marx Today" by J Wolff and "Why Marx Was Right" by T Eagleton. If these interest/inspire/convince you, go further. If not, never mind.

[Anonymous No.6328165]

Yeah, if you want to get the basics down just study Marx, Marx and more Marx (and Engels). Chronologically might be useful, to build up to Capital (which is his crowning achievement).

[Anonymous No.6328166]

>>6328154
http://www.ryerson.ca/socialjustice/about/index.html

[Anonymous No.6328170]

The truth is that these "people to read" lists will not work for this particular project because not only you'll find a total lack of cohesion between the names that end up on your list (unless you end up with a very limited tradition) but you'll also be conditioned into thinking that these people are some high priests of marxism and everything they said about a given theme is a consensus among them, and the themes that lay beyond their field of speciality (say, modern economics, for those you've listed) is not an issue marxists are particularly concerned about

You should probably read the very very basics and then start looking online for marxist writings about a particular theme that you're interested in. There are online study lists like that everywhere, not to mention editions containing only selected works on a certain topic (e.g. "Pre-Capitalist Economic Formations" and "The Classical Marxist Critiques of Religion", both of which I'm reading right now)

And don't avoid reading the Leninists just because you don't want to end up one of them

[Anonymous No.6328182]

>>6328166
what am I even looking at here? I always get the sense that 'social justice' has completely dropped marxism, and instead is into identity politics, social democracy, and middleclass stuff, and liberalism, no?

>>6328170
okay thanks I'll keep that in mind.

[Anonymous No.6328187]

>>6328161
If someone is "diving strait into Marxism", it is almost essential, and they are gonna be diving into several thousand pages of various texts anyway. The time put in will be more than worth the while, especially compared to using Terry Eagleton as a foundation.

Capital is not a difficult read and it repays the attention its given. Thousands of pages of text begin with a single word, 同志.

[Anonymous No.6328227]

>>6328182
>middleclass stuff
You do realize that the overwhelming majority of Marxists in North America are well educated middle class people, don't you? If that's too middle class for you, you could always go enroll at Duke's literature department with Jameson's acolytes.

[Anonymous No.6328232]

>>6328044
>Revolt Against the Modern World and Men Among the Ruins on the list but not Ride the Tiger

It's like you actually read Evola and are not just some posturing "ironpill" edgelord.

[Anonymous No.6328242]

>>6328227
Most Western Marxists are very privileged people. If only there was a Marxist manual about overcoming hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.6328262]

Is Althusser's plan for reading Das Kapital ok?
http://www.generation-online.org/p/fpalthusser11.htm

[Anonymous No.6328265]

>>6328262
No. Althusser was a complete hack who massively distorted Marx's philosophical development due to his tendentious anti-humanist agenda.

[Anonymous No.6328267]

>>6328227
that sounds really cool.
I've also heared Eric Olin Wright runs a pretty cool thing at Wisconsin, get to chill at his house and stuff or go for marxist picnics.

[Anonymous No.6328272]

how do you guys feel about the Reading Capital with David Harvey youtube thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBazR59SZXk

[Anonymous No.6328289]

>>6328242
That is not the same as saying that most of those who engage in class struggle are very privileged. And historical materialism is at heart just the theory of class struggle: "theory is dependent on practice, is the foundation of practice, and is in the service of practice."

As for modern Marxism from a non-Western modern perspective, Li Minqi's The Rise of China and the Demise of the Capitalist World Economy is a fun read, and builds on Marx with word-system ideas from Wallerstein.

[Anonymous No.6328294]

>>6328035
Where is part 2?

[Anonymous No.6328301]

>>6328262
read the Cohen book mentioned above instead, or David Harvey's lectures. if you're going back far enough to Althusser to help you understand Capital, you'd be better reading Dunayevskaya's "Outline of Marx's Capital"

[Anonymous No.6328307]

>>6328232
What if never actually read Evola but still Evolapost because it's funny?

man Evola is a weird word when you read it too many times

[Anonymous No.6328311]

>>6328072

Negri is pretty weak, theoretically speaking.

[Anonymous No.6328321]

>>6328242
Nothing hypocritical there, dumbfuck. Middleclass people are proletarians too. And maybe this says something about the future, how marx said that the poeple would become more educated and then rise up and establish socialism. This could be evidence of that, and how when/if education becomes more accessible to the average man, the establishment of socialism will be on its way.

[Anonymous No.6328376]

>>6328321
>>6328321
The development of the productive forces is more than simply a matter of education.

Taking on the task of restructuring production relations involves a particular estimate of the risk involved, which is why it is those who have (or feel they have) little to lose who engage in praxis (workers and students). Nevermind the middle class, even a worker in a developed nation might feel that they have too much to lose - 'better the devil you know.' Look at the labour history of Australia for example, a great book on which (and relevant to OPs query) is Humphrey McQueen's A New Britannia, which details how class cooperation and the endorsement of compulsory arbitration between labourers and employers were used to support the White Australia policy.

[Anonymous No.6328399]

>>>/r/

[Anonymous No.6328611]

>>6328044
>reactionary
>reading

[Anonymous No.6328636]

LLCO's 'Monkey Smashes Heaven' + Magazines
MIM's Magazines
RAIM's Magazines
Jason Unruhe's Videos

[Anonymous No.6328643]

>>6328035
Half your list is postmodernist shit that doesn't really have anything to do with marxism.

[Anonymous No.6328679]

>>6328165
Engels really can't be stressed enough.

History of the Family Private Property and the State, Socialism; Utopian and Scientific, Tactics of Social Democracy, and if you really want it clear; Anti-Duhring.

Engels branches out Marxist theory. His strategic considerations are essential to understanding the later developments in both Orthodox Marxism and Marxism-Leninism.

[Anonymous No.6328710]

>>6328611
Carlyle is for Marxists to study the embryo of the fascist mindset.

If you have actually read a book by Carlyle, you fail Carlyle's criteria for that primal vitality, and it's too late for you.

[Anonymous No.6328721]

>>6328643
like who?

[Anonymous No.6328744]

Regarding OP's picture: It's really a shame how the discourse of identity politics/postmodernism/postmarxism, or whatever you want to call it, have pretty much ruined the socialist movement. We should focus on crushing capitalism and making sure the workers of the world can unite in international socialism and not getting caught up in trigger warnings, thin privilege, intersectionality etc. etc.

These types of ideas stem from Malcom X, the social justice revolution at American universities and eventually the discourse of poststructuralism. Fuck you guys for letting capitalism win and for letting the corporations enslave us all. Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.6328752]

>>6328744

>fuck you people for fucking what i wanted to do

[Anonymous No.6328757]

>>6328643
>postmodernist shit that doesn't really have anything to do with marxism
I bet you believe that everything after Lenin doesn't really have anything to do with marxism

[Anonymous No.6328759]

>>6328744
Good shitpost. I almost legitimately responded.

[Anonymous No.6328760]

>>6328744
The most basic laws of economics and human nature are as certain as gravity.

You and other delusional leftists are literally fighting against reality itself, that is why Capitalism will always win.

[Anonymous No.6328779]

>>6328744
Capitalism won in the West first of all due to the success of the Factory Acts (UK civil service) and the ironic success of the early labour movement in forcing concessions from capital. Secondly, the collapse of the manufacturing base (Detroit and Wales for example, neither of which can be blamed on Malcolm X) followed by post-90s outsourcing has moved all the uppity proletariat overseas.

It is material factors which have changed the nature of discourse, not vice-versa.

[Anonymous No.6328785]

>>6328744
yeah, fuck the trannies, they aren't even proper workers haha!

idiot

[Anonymous No.6328790]

>>6328760
>human nature
quality meme friendo!

[Anonymous No.6328800]

>>6328779
Capitalism was also imposed by militar force in latin america from the 60's to well into the 90's in some cases. America couldn't let it's backyard get messy with all that socialism and vague fascism boiling up in the 50's.

[Anonymous No.6328808]

>>6328785
w-well, i guess we aren't
unless you count sexual workers

[Anonymous No.6328831]

>>6328808
It just feels like "anti-individualism" oftenly comes from closet-reactionaries, especially on a place like 4chan. Sorry

[Anonymous No.6328845]

>>6328800
For sure, and nevermind the backyard, look at state dealings with the CIO in the US and later in the UK with striking miners. Thatcher said "There is no such thing as society", these ideologies don't spring from nowhere.

[Anonymous No.6328854]

>>6328831
Why are you saying your sorry? you should be sorry for answering the obvious bate about malcom x, a violent revolucionary, being the root of sjws

[Anonymous No.6328858]

>>6328785
yeah, fuck the privileged white cis male workers, they aren't even queer haha!

[Anonymous No.6328865]

>>6328858
they just aren't trying hard enough, don't be mean.

[Anonymous No.6328884]

>>6328760
So gravity is historically contingent?

[Anonymous No.6328891]

>>6328884
accepting the big bang theory, all the laws of physics are historically contingent

[Anonymous No.6328908]

>>6328035
Try killing yourself first

[Anonymous No.6328917]

>>6328035
Start off reading articles on marxit websites.

Wheather they're reading is correct or not, you'll get a real flavour of how marxism has been interpreted over the years.

[Anonymous No.6329010]

>>6328744
>It's really a shame...
Nah.

[Anonymous No.6329055]

>>6328757
No, there are numerous works trying to formalize marxist economics, and there are numerous works trying to extend marxist thought to new phenomenons. Postmodernism does neither.

>>6328744
This.

[Anonymous No.6329099]

>>6328757
Yup, fedora tippers are leftists. Also they're feminists, they're clean-shaven, they're strongly in favor of organized religion, and they wear baseball caps exclusively.

[Anonymous No.6329282]

>>6328043
Start with the Manifesto

[Anonymous No.6329309]

>>6328242
http://bluelabyrinths.com/2015/03/03/the-champagne-socialist-fallacy-2/

You might want to give that a read.

>>6328744

Yeah but if more women become CEOs we'll have gender equality, right? We just need more women politicians in congress and the senate instead of actually changing the structure of the system. I mean, having a black man as President clearly ended racism, right?

[Anonymous No.6329766]

>>6329282
No. Not at all. Theses on Feuerbach, Critique of Gotha, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, Wages Price and Profit.

[Anonymous No.6329986]

thanks everyone this has been really helpful

[Anonymous No.6330112]

>>6328182
>I always get the sense
congrats on letting 4chan warp your sense of reality

[Anonymous No.6330212]

>>6328035
>Capital - Marx
>Poulantzas
>Althusser
>Lukacs
I approve.

[Anonymous No.6330316]

>>6330212
Stop shit posting structuralism. History has a subject, created by its own actions.

[Anonymous No.6330336]

>>6330316
r u a humanist marxist tho? 0.0

[Anonymous No.6330410]

>>6330336
There is no absolute category of human, just like there is no "final instance" of determination.

Althusser just smuggled his humanism into the final instance. Meanwhile deleting the proletariat.

[Anonymous No.6330448]

>>6330336
What's the anti-humanist affective state in making value judgements regarding Capitalism? The humanists can always look to alienation and the dignity of man (however misguided such notions may be). But what does the anti-humanist marxist fight for? An unconcerned historical process of material accumulation and distribution?

[ΟΥΤΙΣ No.6330464]

>>6330336
Lukacs was, at least until he repented his heresy. He was the spearhead of the humanist Marxism Althusser attacked.

[ΟΥΤΙΣ No.6330474]

>>6330336
Lukacs was, at least until he recanted his heresy. He was the spearhead of the humanist Marxism Althusser attacked.

[Anonymous No.6331589]

>>6330410
>>6330448
>>6330474
so you need humanist marxism to have praxis? otherwise it is just some science to look at things?

i want there to be a 'useful' marxism without any humanism, or a better humanism than 'species-being' stuff. altho to be fair marx's 'species-being' is a lot less essentiallst than I first thought it would be after reading more.

[Anonymous No.6331703]

>>6328744
Deal with it commie faggot

[Anonymous No.6332186]

wish I could afford/get accepted into this
:.(
but never will

http://literature.duke.edu/programs/marxism-society

[Anonymous No.6332220]

>>6328047

This.

Adorno and Marcuse are a must-read if you want to have a relevant Marxist conceptual toolbox.

[Anonymous No.6332232]

>ctrl+f
>hoxa
>0

For shame, /lit/

[Anonymous No.6332241]

>>6332232
k, it's actually 'hoxha', but it doesn't change anything; still 0

[Anonymous No.6332537]

>>6328760
Every time someone mentions "human nature" in an argument, you essentially forfeit. It's rhetorically equivalent to saying "because god said so."

[Anonymous No.6333031]

>>6328047
>>6332220
If you're a bourgeois who sees the movement as an instrument of their self-actualisation, sure. If you're blind to the actual culture of the class, sure. If you view Marxism as a movement of ideology towards totality, rather than a mixed and uneven influence on a real material movement of workers, sure.

Piss that time up against the wall.

[Anonymous No.6334349]

>>6328744
While Feminism and other struggles are important, I sort of agree with you on some level.

While Brocialists piss me off (Socialist MRA's) it's really becoming obvious that the left is being caught in a quagmire of identity politics instead of focusing on the fight against Capital. While I have problem with identity politics and do try to call out racism and sexism as I see it, it does annoy me that even now most Socialists are getting caught up in this and are calling anybody who focuses on class conscioussness, revolution theory and labour as "brocialists".

I've hung out on plenty of boards that would be classified as "SJW" by 4channers and there is a strong strain of liberalism there, not Socialism. Identity politics people don't care about the overthrow of Capital, they care about getting themselves into places of class privilege.

While I do believe there is a strong class nature in racism and sexism, most people don't give a single fuck about that either.

As I have said on Socialist boards before, there is probably 50,000 liberal feminists in the world for every socialist, why should us Socialists focus on Feminist causes instead of class ones?

[Anonymous No.6334588]

>>6334349
yeah why would I care if a dress that is XXXL costs more than a normal size when me and all my friends, mostly female, were laid off of our retail positions, full of emotional labour, and have to all go back out to sell our labour and the estranging world of jobsearch

lgbtq+/female workers were horrifically left out of the labour movements of the past, and should be brought in as equal proletariats, but we shouldn't care if our CEO is trans, we don't want a ceo at all.

[Anonymous No.6334998]

>>6328744
>implying someone's identity should take a backseat to the revolution
>not embracing someone's identity as apart of the revolution

[Anonymous No.6335002]

>>6334998
>apart
Yeah, that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

>implying someone's identity should take a backseat to the revolution
Nazifurs are not my comrades.

[Anonymous No.6335005]

>>6335002
>*a part

satisfied?

[Anonymous No.6335007]

>>6334349
>brocialists
>MRA's
>SJW

look, you seem like you're passionate about politics. ever think you've been led down an endless path of bullshit? b/c talking about politics in this way will never help anyone. not women, not the oppressed classes, etc.

[Anonymous No.6335016]

>>6335005
Not really. I have no solidarity with bourgeois shits. Nor with anti-queers.

Constructing proletarian subjectivity involves destroying bourgeois identities as they embody ideology.

[Anonymous No.6335019]

>maybe you university cats have more details on who matters right now

This board lionizes DFW and Tao Lin. It thinks Midnight in Paris is a good movie.

[G 0 D B L E ß !zR/LhJxu0Q No.6335030]

>mfw people privileged enough to shitpost on 4chan think they're proper revolutionaries
>mfw I couldn't care less about identity politics or class-interests at any level

[Anonymous No.6335033]

>>6335016
What are you even getting at? If anything, you're the bourgeois shit for throwing around academic jargon that doesn't even convey a coherent point.

[Anonymous No.6335062]

>>6334349
You know what's really fucking infuriating about that? Is that the identity/privilege politics people in the Left, who mostly belong to minorities or are women, always act like *we* who study capitalism, theory and labor organization but happen to be white men are some kind of outsiders who have to prove our "worth" to them.

There's this underlying assumption that if a guy is a self-proclaimed Leftist but he's privileged he should be expected to prove he's not "like the rest" by a strict observance of whatever bullshit rules they've just come up with and a constant weird quasi-Maoist self-criticism.

And in turn, the majority of these people are completely ignorant on everything that belongs to the left-wing tradition before the raise of intersectionality. And when I say completely, I mean *completely* - they have this irritating habit of never reading anything but just assuming they know what it says. And I spoke with older black and feminist activists who said exactly the same thing.

Yet somehow they expect to join and be able to dictate the rules just because they have a pussy card. And that desperate embracing of identity at the expense of everything else really seems to be causing it's harm now that I look at young left-wing movements and I have more chances of encountering something said by Beyonce, John Oliver or the Dalai Lama quote than Marx, Connolly or Kautsky.

[Anonymous No.6335121]

>>6335033
Take your identity politics and shove them up your fucking arsehole love. Would you like it any plainer? You are believing the lie of the bourgeois individual, and trying to live it. Go fuck yourself and your little maiden circle jerk. Poofters and dykes have been burning letter boxes and getting arrested for years, for the right to put things in places—and do you know what? All of the identities produced by being ground down and shat upon by above are shit identities that must be abandoned. Like you. In a ditch. Shot through the back of your pretentious little head.

[Anonymous No.6335124]

>>6335062
I tend to just ask people like you describe "who do you read?" if they start getting uppity about 'muh intersectionality, why does that white man get to argue with me??!!!"

and as you say they literally read no one, and they usually back off a bit.

[Anonymous No.6335127]

>>6328035
When we studied marx in my sociology class we put it within the context of another book as well:

Property and Prophets by E. K. Hunt and followed up with The Marx-Engels Reader.

[Anonymous No.6335128]

>>6335121
Are you a fascist?

[Anonymous No.6335131]

>>6335062
>women using the pussy card to get what they want
>women using whinging to get what they want

Its the same everywhere. That doesn't mean all women are like that, nor that their opinions cannot be valid. Just that these tools are the privileged weapons of women and are often used in place of education and self empowerment.

[Anonymous No.6335141]

>>6335124
>>6335124
If I did that I'd get a huge sermon about how not everyone had the opportunity for education or has the time to read. One thing I noticed is that they always draw from other people's experience to justify their behavior, so if I asked a wealthy middle class feminist who she reads she wouldn't address it as an individual, she'd say my attitude is "problematic" because "you know there are single black mothers out there who didn't even get to finish high school who don't have the time or background to read your precious theorists, right?"

If it seems like I'm exaggerating then trust me, it's a national barrier. I'd invite you to ask any reasonable south american leftist if he's not struggling with similar tendencies.

[Anonymous No.6335142]

>>6335062
>leftists complaining that modern leftists are discarding their great traditions

deliciously ironic

[Anonymous No.6335160]

>>6335142
>>6335142
>casting leftists as the destroyers of morality

Only one group in our culture remains at the defense of Western traditions and genuine morality, and it's the left.

[Anonymous No.6335174]

>>6335128
No, mate, not at all.

Go read James and Dalla Costa. Come back after you've had a think about why you're posting unlettered shit on /lit/. Or you could fucking learn from concrete experience.

[Anonymous No.6335181]

>>6335142
I'm struggling to see why. It's not like the nominal end game and goals have changed. These people remain prose-only anti-capitalists, pro-equality, pro-liberty people, our objectives largely remain the same, they just have the worst possible set of theoretical tools, organizational skills and personalities possible for the task. There's a difference between this and the vapid conservatism of "but this is how we've done for ages!" not to mention that if that rings as irony for you, you probably see parallels between your traditionalist struggles and pretty much everything that is open to change at any moment.

[Anonymous No.6335185]

>>6335160
and let me guess, you have a long, highly theoretical and esoteric definition of what the "genuine" left is

[Anonymous No.6335202]

>>6335185
No, it's pretty arbitrary. Which one is more palatable to you?

[Anonymous No.6335204]

>>6335185
and let me guess, your definition excludes the working class as it actually is?

[Anonymous No.6335224]

Since we're on the subject, anyone else mad over how liberals today expect you not to engage on a fight against big business and their practices, but to accept whatever social harm it causes?

Like, the fat-shaming thing bothers because mass obesity is pretty much a recent phenomenon linked to the ascension of fast food, the food industry's total lack of concern with the health of its consumers and government's constant disregard for health and safety regulations. And there's also a market angle with a McDonalds replacing every decent joint and nasty shit replacing anything healthy on the places we shop. Instead of addressing that, we've decided that we should be tolerant and accept fat people.

And art & culture, which used to be cause célèbre of the western left, is now something that you have to be careful not to be "elitist" about. It's weird.

[Anonymous No.6335242]

>>6335224
>Like, the fat-shaming thing bothers because mass obesity is pretty much a recent phenomenon linked to the ascension of fast food, the food industry's total lack of concern with the health of its consumers and government's constant disregard for health and safety regulations. And there's also a market angle with a McDonalds replacing every decent joint and nasty shit replacing anything healthy on the places we shop. Instead of addressing that, we've decided that we should be tolerant and accept fat people.

I guess you don't understand what a high protein high fat diet means to someone raised working class. Reread Orwell on the toilet paper and the bread until you get it (Road to Wigan).

You also do realise that a hell of a lot of the left's celebration of culture was a celebration of pop culture 10 years out of date. Trots in the 1990s wearing denim jackets. Coms in the 1950s putting on music halls.

[Anonymous No.6335245]

>>6335224
>liberals today expect you not to engage on a fight against big business and their practices, but to accept whatever social harm it causes?

I'm liberal and fat people are disgusting wastes. I'm not sure what your post is about except some sissy little whine about how people you automatically think are liberal are doing things you don't like.

[Anonymous No.6335258]

>>6335242
>I guess you don't understand what a high protein high fat diet means to someone raised working class. Reread Orwell on the toilet paper and the bread until you get it (Road to Wigan).

Gee do tell me more about that, if I know anything about the modern left is that this all is going to be depicted as "empowering" for them somehow

[Anonymous No.6335267]

>>6335245
>I'm not sure what your post is about except some sissy little whine about how people you automatically think are liberal are doing things you don't like.

I've noticed before that liberals on /lit/ cannot read the term "liberals" without immediately getting their defenses up, without wondering for a second if maybe that person is - wrap your head around this - a liberal himself engaging in some kind of self-criticism about modern liberal platforms.

[Anonymous No.6335270]

>>6335267
It's just not smart, regardless.

[Anonymous No.6335280]

>>6335270
As opposed to what? Seriously, it's a left-wing cause we're talking about and if I decided to downplay this by instead writing some general statement like "anyone else mad over how PEOPLE today..." some conservative would call me out on it.

You have some weird pet peeves

[Anonymous No.6335283]

>>6335258
>I don't read.

Fuck right off this board, go get a copy of Road to Wigan Pier, and shut your shit shute until you've read one of the seminal works of petits-bourgeois misunderstanding working class culture.

[Anonymous No.6335290]

>>6335181
I guess we are both just operating under facile ideas of what the other side amounts to. I was thinking under the caricature of leftism as subversion of what was previously upheld for subversion's sake- "fuck you, dad!" while you clearly caricaturize conservatism as upholding for upholding's sake- "but this is how we've always done." Of course, our respective sides are the torchbearers of timeless values; the other side is psychologically ill.

It doesn't really even matter if we then precede to contrast and argue for the merits of our particular timeless values. I will go on associating liberalism with idiot SJWs and you will go on associating conservatism with your hypocrite grandpa. Just another day in this dystopic postmodern fuckmachine, where we're all the stars of our own personal mind-movies.

[Anonymous No.6335291]

>>6335290
Or maybe you two cunts could fuck off and read something before returning to your vomit to lap up your own inadequacies.

[Anonymous No.6335299]

>>6335291
absolutely killer burn

[Anonymous No.6335319]

>>6335290
sorry anon I usually have more respect for others' views than that, but your little potshot back there really annoyed me for some reason

[Anonymous No.6335329]

>mfw this thread
The only 'marxist' worth reading is Zizek.
Xiaoping for life.

Fuck Lukács (and Trotsky).

[Anonymous No.6335333]

>>6335319
maybe its because you inherently realize that modern liberalism has a deeper problem than theoretical tools and less-than-congenial personalities, and you have a thirst for transcendent truths that only carefully maintained hierarchical cultural institutions can provide :)

[Anonymous No.6335622]

well yeah, fat-pride is like consumerist-pride.

tfw fat yuppie women in my city hold speeches at bars and clubs basically saying it is okay they are fat and we have to accept it, meanwhile yuppie men come cheer them on, meanwhile the working classes around the world keep slaving away at their sewing machines.

[Anonymous No.6335635]

are there some marxists that think the world is too terrible and we should instead walk away from it and be separate. (sort of like the buddhists or amish or quakers) but with no religion?

[Anonymous No.6336957]

Max Weber, The Protestant Ethic

[Anonymous No.6336966]

>>6328785

>a minute group of heavily medicated, confused depressives is the new revolutionary agent!

[Anonymous No.6337210]

>>6328044
>>6328307
>>6328232
>muh dadaism
>muh "spiritual" racism
>muh co-opting of Guénon
>muh drugs
>muh 1337 SS guard
>muh life as an idle rich
>muh chacra
>muh inspiration to terrorists
>muh abolishment of industry
>muh hand-made wheel chair

>natural power of kings
KEK! Nice ex post rationalization.

[Anonymous No.6337221]

>>6328267
>go for marxist picnics
A Marxist picnic is the forced collectivization of a farm, shooting the kulak owner and raping his wife, daughters, and cattle. With the possible exception of the cattle rape, I doubt very much whether there is much of this going on in Wisconsin.

[Anonymous No.6337227]

>>6335635
No. There is no "outside" to capitalism.

[Anonymous No.6339158]

humanism? now tho? it can't be possible.

[Anonymous No.6340369]

>>6332537
Alright, then stop eating. Because human nature is just a social structure.
Are you telling me it is not in a human's nature to expect to be able to enjoy what he himself has collected? Is just a social structure to believe that sharing everything you yourself has collected with someone you don't know who hasn't done his job is unfair?
I hate leftist communists. I really do.

[Anonymous No.6340375]

>>6340369
>I hate leftist communists. I really do.

When someone actually type arguments such as "stop eating if you think there's no human nature" their hatred is entirely welcome. We're glad not to have you on our team.

[Anonymous No.6340415]

>>6339158
baudrillard is such a bitch ass edgelord

[Anonymous No.6340431]

>>6340369
Give up anon, you can't save all of them. Rather focus on what's important, having a job so you can support the lives and welfare program for leftists.

It's the only reason I smile when I pay my taxes. Enjoying the irony of leftists surviving on my capitalist incomes.

[Anonymous No.6341220]

then there's these communists, picture from today, reminds me of the godard film La Chinois. What do you think of them? I think thought out to stop :s

a war of mavouevre is not possible to day, and that kind of violence is wrong.

[Anonymous No.6341223]

>>6341220
*they ought to stop

[Anonymous No.6341247]

>>6341220
why? I really wish all the violence that falls on innocent people could fall, at least, in equal level on the elites, if not entirely. They're taking the war from the city streets to the offices, best thing for everyone involved.

[Anonymous No.6341293]

>>6341220
>>6341223
>>6341247
You don't make threats.

[Anonymous No.6343049]

>>6341293
what do you do?

[Anonymous No.6343346]

>>6343049
Think dialectically and work it out.