/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.6320013]

How do I contribute?

I feel like I have been leeching all my life. I read a lot, play vidya, watch youtube, and go hiking. All this time I have not been contributing anything to any community I belong to. Even in conversations I just listen and give appropriate responses. I feel like a leecher. I mostly lurk even on 4chan. How do I contribute anything to the world? It's not like anything wrong with it but it is a very boring life.

[Anonymous No.6320032]

>>6320013
>vidya
there's your problem, and I think the fact that you're on this board rather than /adv/ asking that question means you're in the right direction.
Don't post. For a long while. Absorb.
Start reading obsessively

[Anonymous No.6320037]

>>6320013
How old are you?

I feel like a leecher to. I was waiting to finish college to get a job, but considering how bad I'm doing I probably going to look for jobs at the end of the semester.

[Anonymous No.6320041]

>>6320032
>Start reading obsessively
and reading non-fiction

[Anonymous No.6320056]

If you believe there's nothing wrong with it then you shouldn't feel like a leech. If you do, you are only harming yourself.

You are free to contribute in a variety of ways. Socio-economically, by paying taxes; academically, by producing scientific (broadly construed) work and thus advancing the field of your specialty; helping people (yourself included) by means of philanthropy/altruism.

>it is a very boring life
What if the act and process of contribution itself is boring? Will you change your mind about the value of contribution?

[Anonymous No.6320058]

you're contributing to the decline in quality of posts on /lit/

[Anonymous No.6320076]

>>6320032
What is wrong with vidya?
The problem is absorbing. I have been doing nothing but absorbing. I want to switch to the contributing side and I lack the motivation to do so.

[Anonymous No.6320083]

>>6320037
Are you me?

[Anonymous No.6320097]

Technically you don't have to contribute anything other than the amount you need to live. If you want to create content, though, pick something out and get to work. The only way you will ever contribute something meaningful to any medium is if you spend a very significant amount of your time devoted to it, which means you would have to start now and actually keep at it. If I were in your shoes, I would stop playing videogames and instead use that time to practice writing fiction, or poetry. It is up to you, though.

[Anonymous No.6320112]

>>6320056
I think there is no moral obligations for me to contribute but I just feel like I am not exercising my will enough and thus not living in life that is worth living. So I feel like a leech rather than a human.

I agree there might not be an actual value behind contributing something. But I think an active life of creating/destroying something is more appealing than passive absorbing life.

[Anonymous No.6320114]

>>6320076
>I want to switch to the contributing side and I lack the motivation to do so.
Wanting implies motivation, lack of motivation implies lack of will; this is a contradiction in terms and fundamentally an irrational behavior. Or you're just poor at articulating your thoughts and desires.

Go for a walk and make up your mind. Then, act.

[Anonymous No.6320126]

>>6320076
Well, the motivation has to come from yourself, not from some vietnamese child trading site. What are you interests? Do you have any? Are you a STEMfag or Humanities fag? Would you rather work at an industry or an office? Do you like building stuff? There is plenty of things you could do, the important thing is know what you want to do.

[Anonymous No.6320155]

The problem is in yourself.
This feeling of discontentment leads either to apathy & grouchiness or to grand ambition, both of which are self-serving.
Acquire contentment and gratitude and love and compassion for others will flow naturally.
Treating your neighbour right is a better achievement than going on some grand mission to fix the world, which is really only pride and self-delusion.

[Anonymous No.6320160]

>>6320126
The important thing is not "knowing what to do". That is mysticism, fortune-telling, star gazing.
The important thing is being content with what you are doing.

[Anonymous No.6320177]

>>6320076
You are deluded. You think that this desire to "contribute" is selfless. It isn't. It's your pride telling you that you aren't good enough and have to achieve more. This feeling of inadequacy has nothing to do with love of others and has everything to do with self-love.

[Anonymous No.6320181]

>>6320160
How the hell is knowing yourself mysticism? By knowing what to do I mean figuring out what you are really interested in and pursuing it.

You will never be content with what you are doing if you have no interest in it.

[Anonymous No.6320191]

>>6320112
>But I think an active life of creating/destroying something is more appealing than passive absorbing life.

It isn't. The only thing that the ambitious achieve is self-mutilation.

[Anonymous No.6320210]

>>6320112
Not exercising your will, by itself, does not mean you are a leech. Unless by 'leech' you mean 'taking advantage of one's impoverished will by means of gratification of sorts'.

>I agree there might not be an actual value behind contributing something. But I think an active life of creating/destroying something is more appealing than passive absorbing life.
What I meant was: what if something that initially appeared as a worthwhile way of living turned out not to be a worthwhile way of living because of how boring you found it later on, upon its actual execution and process? I.e. you just as easily may adopt to your new way of living just as you once adapted to your current way of living. Years later, driven by yet another phase of boredom, you might be craving for something else entirely, once again.

[Anonymous No.6320217]

>>6320181
Because this idea of a true self that has a mystical attachment to this one thing is mysticism. People aren't born with an interest in anything, they gain it by enchantment.
The goal isn't to "find what you are interested in" (which really means hypnotiszing yourself into loving something). The goal is to be completely disinterested and fulfil your work dispassionately.
If you go down the route of "finding what you are interested in" you will become a Beethoven manic-depressive whose happiness depends upon his situation in relation to his obsession.
If you go down the correct route of dispassionately you could be a CEO or a janitor and fulfil your role with the same contentment.
This is why you see people in high positions who are miserable and people in low ones who are sad: the miserable ones are ambitious and are always thinking "this isn't what I'm interested in, my passion lies elsewhere!"
It's stupidity and childishness to follow passion.

[Anonymous No.6320258]

>>6320217
I am not saying that persons have a mystical attachment to anything, I am not sure where you are taking this from. People have affinities to different thing and there is nothing mystical about it. Some people are into sports, other are into art, movies, science, mathematics, engineering, the list goes on and on.

If you have no passion to what you are doing then you will eventually ask your self: "Why am I doing this?" Like it or not, humans are passionate beings, they invest their feelings into their life. If they find no fulfillment in their life then they will feel miserable, for a good part of them this "fulfillment" comes from things that they enjoy doing.

You can't be completely disinterested in something you are doing 8 hours a day. You say that disinterest will avoid you feeling misery, but it will also stop you from feeling joy.

[Anonymous No.6320268]

>>6320114
No, his post makes sense, you just have to read it as "I want to have contributed but I lack motivation to actually contribute"

[Anonymous No.6320272]

>>6320217
Interesting perspective. What has lead you to this conclusion?

[Anonymous No.6320285]

>>6320076
> What is wrong with vidya?

It's a waste of fucking time you stupid fucking twat. READ. READ READ READ. Shut the fuck up, turn off your computer and read and only turn it back on when you feel you've worked hard enough to warrant a rest. Jesus christ "what wrong with vidja". You've been behind a screen so long you don't even know you're looking at one. Never play videogames again and become a better, happier and more thoughtful person (and a lot more fun to be around).

[Anonymous No.6320290]

>>6320285
>It's a waste of fucking time you stupid fucking twat
just like reading fiction
both are mere entertainment

[Anonymous No.6320293]

>>6320290
>just like reading fiction

Everyone,
This is this what League of Legends will do to you. Not a joke.

[Anonymous No.6320298]

>>6320293
>>6320290
I am still confused as to what the fuck you guys mean by fiction? Some of you say it involves every single novel, others say that it just involves novels like Harry Potter, Hunger games, Game of Thrones etc.

[Anonymous No.6320299]

>>6320217
>If you go down the route of "finding what you are interested in" you will become a Beethoven manic-depressive whose happiness depends upon his situation in relation to his obsession.
>If you go down the correct route of dispassionately you could be a CEO or a janitor and fulfil your role with the same contentment.
So you're basically saying that if I allow myself to be passionate I'll be Beethoven, and if I restrain myself from passion I'll become a janitor?

[Anonymous No.6320300]

>>6320298
And that uncertainty is exactly why stupid reductionist attitudes like this LoL-fuckface are stupid.

[Anonymous No.6320307]

>>6320299
I found it funny too that he tried to put Beethoven in a negative light.

[Anonymous No.6320315]

>>6320272
I've heard arguments from both sides. Almost all the wise men of the ages are on the side of dispassionately, detachment, simple living, being content with small things. Ecclesiastes opens with the statement that all is vanity, and ends by saying that you should keep the commandments of God in simplicity and not worry about anything else. There was a great Roman empire who said before he died, "I've been everything, nothing is worth it."

The philosophers of ambition are people like the mythical Faust who sells his soul to acquire secret wisdom. In the end, the ambitious who seek to accomplish their "great work" or "Magnus opus" only end up ruining themselves, yet they have no compunction about ruining others if they can achieve their imaginary greatness for a moment.

[Anonymous No.6320319]

>>6320285
this sounds like great advice if you hate yourself

[Anonymous No.6320320]

>>6320300
That didn't quite answer my question.

[Anonymous No.6320323]

>>6320307
Beethoven is a typical Faust figure. The tortured genius. Like Hamlet, who think it's his job to set the world right and only ends up driving himself and those close to him mad.

[Anonymous No.6320327]

>>6320293

>>6320285
>mfw just finished a 25/6/17 dota 2 match

[ ] better person
[ ] happier person
[ ] thoughtful person
[ ] fun to be around

thank god i'm a neet and i don't give a shit

[Anonymous No.6320331]

>>6320315
So, you are saying that we shouldn't seek our "Magnus Opus" and just hope that we stumble against it by chance? You are saying that humans shouldn't strive for greatness and live in mere simplicity. To each their own I guess, that is something I would never admit.

[Anonymous No.6320332]

>>6320285

>he doesn't think video games can be art

sure, they're much lower in maximum potential than a book (at the moment--who knows what future tech will transform it into), but they still have their artistic merit (particularly some unique to their form)

>never play videogames again

replace "videogames" with any art form or media and you'll see how retarded you are


hell, I would argue that in 200 or so years, video games will probably eclipse books in terms of artistic merit

[Anonymous No.6320333]

>>6320327
>dota 2
>[ ] happier person
Yep, nothing out of the ordinary here

[Anonymous No.6320343]

>>6320323
And now look at what he accomplished. He is one of the greatest musician to ever grace this planet, he is at the very top. If greatness is what he was trying to attain, then he was successful.

[Anonymous No.6320350]

maybe start slower with not contributing anything to society but just be productive. doesnt mean to do something good or beautiful, drawing all out inside a little frame is being productive as well, though the result may be shit. and the best way to start things like that imo is to not give a shit if it will look like shit. otherwise i guess you could join some kind of organization, idk, maybe something in politics, maybe at the university, whatever, they are happy and encouraging for doing something, though its mostly unpaid shitty work like giving flyers for some event of theirs. but slowly you get into it and think about "which event could i create?". or write a fucking essay about how you feel about art or your life or something

[Anonymous No.6320359]

>>6320285
why video games specifically? what about tabletop and card games? what do you think a video game is? You're probably just old.

[Anonymous No.6320368]

>>6320332
>>6320285

> What is wrong with reading?

It's a waste of fucking time you stupid fucking twat. PLAY. PLAY. PLAY. PLAY. Shut the fuck up, turn on your computer and play video games and only turn it back off when you feel you've played hard enough to warrant a rest. Jesus christ "what wrong with reading". You've been behind a book so long you don't even know you're looking at one. Never read books again and become a better, happier and more thoughtful person (and a lot more fun to be around).

[Anonymous No.6320414]

>>6320041
This.

It is the best way to broaden one's horizon.

Not to say fiction can't do it...

[Anonymous No.6320428]

>>6320083
idk, tell me about you
share your pains with me

[Anonymous No.6320459]

>>6320319
>>6320320
>>6320327
>>6320332
>>6320359
>>6320368

Look. I didn't say videogames can't be art, and yes I was being very hyperbolic, but here's a fact: the online gaming world is largely a waste of time to participate in. Why add more screen-watching to your day? Don't you find it fucking addictive and lonely? Don't you ever feel empty watching the time go by, getting attached to stupid, meaningless aspects of games? I'm 25 years old. I'm not saying I'm superhuman and spend my time hyper efficiently, but stimming on a game night after night seems repulsive to me now. You should be working and exercising and reading and writing and doing intellectually stimulating shit. Gaming is not productive.
>inb4 "yes/ sorry Dad"
You can live however you want, I don't care about any of you. Just think about how you spend your time because these years are formative and they fly by.

[Anonymous No.6320477]

>>6320459
>I don't care about any of you.

Okay anon...

I agree with you otherwise. Screen time is one of the most destructive habits of the modern world. It erodes people's social sanity... I think so many problems in the USA stem from television and other forms of screen time.

It is depersonalizing.

Read E Unibus Pluram by DFW (peace be upon him)

[Anonymous No.6320478]

[–]Reginault 8 points 6 months ago
What if I'm blandly apathetic and happy?

[–]MJOLNIRdragoon 8 points 6 months ago
Then you have life figured out.

[Anonymous No.6320479]

>>6320323
Besides what the other poster said about Beethoven, Hamlet didn't turn out so bad in the end either. He finally seized the initiative and did the heroic thing, and was memorialized by Fortinbras as a great man.

[Anonymous No.6320492]

>>6320459
idk, pretty much the only socializing I do is talking to people in online games. if i didn't i would be really alone. But people usually have other interests as well as gaming.

[Anonymous No.6320504]

>>6320459
I'm still saying it sounds like great advice if you hate yourself

can't live life like you're studying for an exam, reading and exercising and maaaybe working and doing intellectually stimulating shit are all great but it gotta come natural, motivating yourself by wishing to be "a good person" and then doing obligatory good person stuff and throwing all the things you like in the trash and running away from your past self is probably a bad idea

it's probably better to be a successful big-dicked billionaire philosopher bodybuilder than some loser playing video games, but at the same time it's probably better to be some loser playing video games than some moderately successful limp-dicked middle class intellectual who runs on the weekends and is deathly afraid of turning back into a loser playing video games

t. loser playing video games

[Anonymous No.6320524]

>>6320013
The question is how can somebody contribute to our society is a big question and in the end it all depend on what you feel.

[Anonymous No.6320529]

>>6320076
Try contributing to good causes, like free software.

[Anonymous No.6320530]

>>6320504
As far as mental happiness goes, that's wrong, at least for most people.

Happiness is tied quite strongly with levels of physical activity and social adaptivity. It may not be true for you, but most people do not feel happy with a completely sedative lifestyle. Studies bear this out on a personal level (people are more depressed the more screen time they have) and it seems to hold true on a societal level (depression levels keep rising along with screen time).

[Anonymous No.6320567]

>>6320504
THAT'S great advice if you hate yourself. You're a loser right now, but maybe if you cultivate some fucking faith you might surprise yourself. You're not giving yourself enough credit.

[Anonymous No.6320568]

>>6320459
Who says I dont exercise? Regularly, I work out for 2 hours, I read on a daily basis, and soon I will be dealing with the last of my major. That doesn't mean that I will stop doing things that I enjoy, like watching films, playing video games (although I don't play daily), going out with friends, fucking girls, attending to the theater for some classical music presentation given the chance. If there is something that I want to stop doing is wasting so much time on the internet, and by that I mean wasting my time on this website. It has been 4 years already with this one.

[Anonymous No.6320569]

>>6320492
Sounds weak to me. And it sounds like you're generally unhappy and haven't managed to man up and think about all the shit you don't want to think about, ever.

[Anonymous No.6320573]

>>6320568
Sounds like you're doing fine, asshole. Maybe if you cut out the videogames you'd be doing finer.

[Anonymous No.6320577]

>>6320530
Eh, you got me with physical exercise, but you don't have to be a friendless fucker to be a loser playing video games, nor did i imply that.
>>6320567
Whenever I say loser, imagine big fat quote marks around the word.

[Anonymous No.6320599]

>>6320504
Are you joking?

[Anonymous No.6320619]

There's nothing wrong with playing video games. But playing video games extensively? Thats when it becomes a problem. I have an alarm set for one hour on the weekdays and two on the weekends. As soon as that alarm goes off, I stop playing. I think video games are perfectly fine in moderation. They're fun as hell.

OP have you tried any volunteering?

[Anonymous No.6320634]

>>6320599
Why would I be? You think doing things out of fear instead of because they interest you is a good thing? You think you will be anything but a mediocre phony by working to be a "good person"?

[Anonymous No.6320638]

>>6320573
Perhaps some day I will be able to move past this place and drop video games all together. I don't enjoy em that much anymore, but the thing is that there is nothing wrong with enjoying em as long as it is not stopping you from enjoying the rest of your god damn life.

[Anonymous No.6320728]

>>6320459
>stimming on a game night after night seems repulsive to me now. You should be working and exercising and reading and writing and doing intellectually stimulating shit. Gaming is not productive.

Agree wholeheartedly. Also 25. I quit video games a few months ago, and I've never felt smarter. I can't say I'm happier, but I feel less... empty. I don't hate on gaming, but playing is just too time-consuming. My time is better spent and more fulfilling reading books and information, watching lectures and films, and going to workshops or meetups. That's just me, though.

I remember reading a post a few days ago that made me laugh - "playing video games is the intellectual equivalent to picking your nose"

[Anonymous No.6320745]

>>6320492
>if i didn't i would be really alone
Try meetup.com or something. Meeting people is easier than you think - it just takes a little initiative.

[Anonymous No.6320751]

>>6320217
Then do neither,
Set yourself a realistic, achievable and definite goal. (I'll use music as an example since you mentioned Beethoven)

Don't be devoted to passion and set a goal like "I will revolutionise the world of music and bring it to its cultural peak"
Be devoted to passion and set a goal like
"I will record an album, each and every track I am happy with upon completion."

Then set yourself another, achievable task ad infinitum.

As long as you continue to set tasks is cool dog

[Anonymous No.6320759]

>>6320619
great idea with the alarm. I like your style. Some people, however, lack the willpower to subdue their desires. I was one of them, so I had to quit altogether. Just me, though.

[Anonymous No.6320763]

>>6320634

You may not know this through no fault of your own but when you start exercising and doing "good person" things on a regular things they become enjoyable.

When you designate a goal for your personal development that you actually care about reaching, undertaking the tasks that get you closer to that goal become enjoyable and fulfilling.

nigga we're creatures of habit.

[Anonymous No.6320764]

>>6320577
>Whenever I say loser, imagine big fat quote marks around the word.

Oh yeah? Whenever I hear some idiot trying to backpedal and articulate the oh-so-precise manner in which he's a loser, it makes me think he's actually a fucking loser. Put quote marks around that if you want, fatty. See if the bell don't a-ring truer. Enjoy your gaming.

[Anonymous No.6320798]

>>6320577
I don't mean playing video games makes you friendless, I do mean to imply that screen time is typically associated with a literal feeling of alienation. For example, we are socially interacting right now, but it is in a very abstracted and asocial manner. So while two distinct very whole human beings are behind each of these posts, we have about as much empathy for each other as we do for our fellow drivers when on the road (not very much).

This is not because either of us are soulless monsters, but because the social interaction that screen time acts as a surrogate for is not wholly replaced by the surrogate. It lacks emotional weight.

This is why the internet is full of trolling and absolute dickery. It's the same reason we indict fellow drivers as incompetent piece-of-shit ass holes.

[Anonymous No.6320805]

>>6320332
>hell, I would argue that in 200 or so years, video games will probably eclipse books in terms of artistic merit
hell, I would argue you're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.6320820]

>>6320013
Stop caring, live for shitposting, shitposting is the way to nirvana, don't listen to anyone else here. The harder you try at anything, the more likely you are to fail, and the more emotionally invested you are, the harder it'll feel. Stop thinking, stop feeling, keep shitposting.

[Anonymous No.6320832]

>>6320798
It amazes me that people don't actually give this kind of framework any attention in their daily lives.

[Anonymous No.6320841]

This thread has nicely derailed into r9k, fit, and v.

[Anonymous No.6320844]

>>6320763
Agreed. Take, for example, eating healthy. Once you start eating nutritious, well-rounded and even-portioned meals, you start to appreciate cuisine more. Gluttony becomes a thing of the past, cheap crap becomes less appealing (even revolting, in some cases), and you start to really appreciate a well-cooked meal.

My example may or may not fit entirely, but I thought I'd share all the same.

[Anonymous No.6320858]

>>6320332
Stop trying to convince people that video games are, or could be, art or artistic. Nobody cares. Do it for yourself. If you think that video games are art, great. You likely have an audience amongst your peers, so go and talk with them about games and how great they are, and people here will talk about their own interests (which unfortunately involves way more shit-talking than praise, but the assholes are always the loudest). Ignore the nay-sayers and move on.

[Anonymous No.6320880]

>>6320798
I think video games can give you a positive social experience online and offline. You can have a lot of fun playing and talking with other people. Ive met a couple of people through playing video games offline and they're all cool, perfectly functioning dudes.

[Anonymous No.6320925]

>>6320880
Me too, don't get me wrong. I've had many great experiences online. But there *is* something different. I feel like I've had the whole gamut of online relationships and real-life relationships. Romantic and friendly internet relationships are of a wholly different nature than their real-life counterparts. That does not mean they aren't satisfying, but you cannot sustain yourself on that social interaction alone. And the more and more you rely on it, the more you deprive yourself.

[Anonymous No.6320934]

The idea that working and being part of the economy somehow doesn't make you a leech is incredibly short sighted. Consumerism is literally being a leech and it's what modern society is built on.

[Anonymous No.6320994]

>>6320934
You mean modern Western society

[Anonymous No.6321028]

>>6320994
It's been what society has always been based on.

[Anonymous No.6321222]

>>6320459
what if i watch shakespeare on screen

[Anonymous No.6321951]

>>6320056
>What if the act and process of contribution itself is boring? Will you change your mind about the value of contribution?

I'll probably kill myself then. There is no point trying to prolong the stay anymore.

[Anonymous No.6321957]

>>6320013
STIRNER
T
I
R
N
E
R

[Anonymous No.6321959]

ALL THESE SPOOKS.

[Anonymous No.6322007]

>>6320177
Yeah, I've also thought about this. It's as if you feel so worthless or leech in OP's terms that you ought to prove yourself to the world. It's like some talented people say, they couldn't care less about success since their aptitude is so natural to them, while others who aren't particularly talented dishes out more work to prove themselves. They have more desire to prove themselves and do more work.

Anyway, I've been feeling this feel the longest time now over the course of years.

Since this thread has gotten replies a bit, I'll venture to ask. What is life for you /lit/? Currently the answer I've found introspecting is creation. Life is all about creation, giving life and passing your genes, creating new solutions to problems, and lastly maintaining. Creation and maintenance. Once you've been born you have to do all the menial tasks to keep your body, teeth, eyes and so on in shape. Create relationships and maintain the bonds. Same for software, buildings, so on and forth.

This has been giving me the biggest feels for the longest time now so I hope to receive some advice on this. Thank you OP for providing this platform. I was about to take a break from /lit/ too.. glad I saw this thread. This is why I can not quit /lit/.

[Anonymous No.6322022]

>>6320114
In contrast to OP, I have motivation. Just very insecure and full of self-doubt. Nonetheless, I'm not so sure I will be good at anything. And I don't want to fuck around side-stepping on my chosen path. I'm only concerned about the forward-thinking approach.

[Anonymous No.6322054]

>>6322022
This makes me wanna call it quits on life of course. Unless I'll do well on my chosen endeavor I feel like I'll never be fulfilled and thus feel pointless to go on.

Fwiw, I tried shrooms not long ago with a positive or neutral mindstate and all I got from it was me spouting 'life is so pointless' with a bittersweet grin, which isn't anything new. I already said that several times when sober. You're my only hope /it/. Please, shed some light on me. Otherwise, I'll probably join the 27 Club.

I don't usually worry about thread life, but since this has stayed a while so far I hope the mods will continue let it be. This is really the most important thing for me. Ever. ;_;

[Anonymous No.6322066]

>>6320459

I'd enjoy games more if they respected my time. It's problematic when gamers find their massive time sinks something of a non-issue. A 15-hour RPG is considered too short. One hundred hours spent playing a MOBA is considered nothing. Shameful yet proud boasts of hundreds of hours sunk in to WoW. Etcetera.

[Anonymous No.6322114]

>>6320798
>>6320477
Listen to what this anon says. Why do you think moot quit at 26? He's spent all his life in front of the screen, he actually wants to go full innawoods cause he finally realized it himself. We're all getting older. It's why I'm also been trying to quit /lit/ too, I'm so addicted to it to the point that it consumes all my time, but this type of discussions makes me want to come back all the time.

Don't even mention that recent studies have shown that people with more television time has less brain density. This should speak for itself.

About the vidya games topic, there is no absolutely harm to play. Like with anything it's all about moderation. If you find that it's not the case and you can't juggle it... Well, consider your situation. Games have it pros and cons. It can enhance your reaction time, can keep your brain active, but it also has cons as well which you must naturally acknowledge.

Same with 4chan. We get to discuss like this, expand our knowledge and worldview, but it also comes with cons. Cons that should be close to home since you're an anon yourself.

[Anonymous No.6322132]

>>6320332
>video games as art

The more I contemplate this, the more I think it isn't and true - and won't happen.

Video games have already been commodified to such a level that they're never going to be like literature, or even film. When anything even approaching noteworthy "art" are indie games too small to have any reasonable impact on defining the medium, and the juggernauts of the business are repetitive and homogenous, art and innovation aren't going to flourish.

I think that for video games to become "art", they'd have to stop being "fun" - at least as perceived by the current demographic which they cater to. Video games are, relatively speaking, easy and accessible. They don't challenge you, if you dig into them you won't be intellectually rewarded tenfold like you are in Shakespeare or Lynch, or any other examples good literature and film.

I'd like video games to be artistic, but I when I talk about it I can only start imagining how much they'd have to change to get there. And I think essentially they'd have to change so much that they'd have to stop being video games as we know them.

Even then I'm not sure if there really is any potential there, or if it can be extracted out, but video games are too much in the grip of industry, money, popular tendencies, and habit for us to ever find out.

I mean, honestly, I see a lot of people comparing literature to video games, in that literature was the "popular form of entertainment" during its period (as in, pre-vidya). But what has dominated literature throughout history? You had the Bible; you had the Matters of Rome, Britain, and France;, you had Dante, Petrach, and Boccacio; you had Cervantes; you had Shakespeare, Spenser, Keats; Dickens, Poe, Wilde, Whitman; Descartes, Spinoza, Kant; Kafka, Eliot, Joyce.

What video game even touches any of these? And these are examples of literature which were popular, which dominated the popular consciousness? When you like at which games are at the top of the gaming industry, how can you expect video games to replace or equal literature in terms of "art"? In comparison they say very, very little - even highly touted indie games.

Even film has had Welles, Brakhage, Lumet, Wexler, Anger, Lynch, Kubrick, Scorsese. Film itself is a fairly recently invented art form, but it surpasses video games in artistic merit.

A lot of people will dislike me for saying it, and honestly I'd be glad if I had to eat my words, but video games, at least in terms of what is "art", appear more as a sideshow. I don't think a new art form should try to be like literature, and I think film has achieved its own unique mode of expression.

But as for video games, I don't think the capacity is there. Even if it is, there are already too many restrictions for it to become artistically respectable. I don't think video games were ever meant to be "art" - just games.

tl;dr: vidya won't eclipse literature, nor even film

[Anonymous No.6322133]

>>6322132
>it isn't and true

*it isn't true

[Anonymous No.6322143]

>>6322132
ugh, excuse all the spelling mistakes, not to mention the overly long post.

But yeah, as far as my opinion goes, I think the clue's in the name: video *game*.

[Anonymous No.6322343]

>>6322132
Well, if you replace video games with music in your post you get roughly the same effect. I mean, classical music is just a bunch of pleasing noise, there's hardly any "intellectual content", at least in the style of books and movies. I think the video game similarly is a unique art form, it's just that its non-video game elements like cutscenes can get you fooled into thinking it's like a movie or book.

Or does music challenge you intellectually? I don't know.

Main problem with the video game is how dependent on budget it is though. Books and music can be scribbled on toilet paper, painting requires some oil paint, movies require a camera and some guys to stand in front of the screen, while with video games any garage-tier results usually are only admirable in a cutesy way. I think video games real comparison, funding-wise, is with architecture, but great architecture usually isn't funded via getting as many people as possible to chip in with sixty bucks. Democracy is the problem here, even when we're talking about the standards of a regular enthusiast, not to mention any form of art snob. We'll see what the future holds though. Games are young, and unlike film they're more dissimilar to existing art forms.

[Anonymous No.6322406]

>>6320013

I feel this 100%. I've consumed tons of stuff, especially books and retro vidya, but I've been more recently making an effort to contribute worthwhile stuff to the world.

there's lots of things to do, and the best thing for you to contribute isn't necessarily what gets the most recognition.

personally I find that all my studies have broadened my mind and given me a pool of resources to draw from when being creative. on the shoulders of giants, etc.

[Anonymous No.6322463]

>>6322343
> Main problem with the video game is how dependant on budget it is though.

I disagree.

I don't play games much anymore, but I did a lot in highschool and middle school. My favorite games had pretty low budgets, or non-existent ones. While of course, having money can open up more opportunities, I think, at the end of the day, Design > Budget.

[Anonymous No.6322480]

>>6322463
>>6322343
Forgot to mention, but
> Or does music challenge you intellectually?

Some music definitely does. Spend a while on /mu/. You'll be confronted soon enough (once you get past all the memers, that is).

>>6322132
> What video game even touches any of these?
You're holding the medium to an unfair standard. How long has cinema been around? How long has literature been around?
Now compare, how long have video games been around?
With literature, you can pick and choose from centuries of time, but video games haven't even seen a full one yet. They're still young. As the medium develops, we will inevitably see something with objective artistic merit.

[Anonymous No.6322485]

Why is every post about vidya now.

Can we get back on topic? It seems no one likes to discuss shit except vidya.

[Anonymous No.6322545]

>>6322132
Games already aren't fun. Game snobs describe dark souls the way lit snobs describe Heidegger or Joyce: It's challenging and fucks with your expectations.

[Anonymous No.6323929]

Where is everyone gone to when you need them the most?

>>6322007
>>6322022
>>6322054

[Anonymous No.6324636]

OP back here. As some of anons suggested, I took a walk and forced myself to do something, not necessarily contributing, let alone good or bad. I did some volunteering and wrote an essay on Chaucer. It is nice seeing your impact on the world, the real world. It is not easy to force yourself to do something. But having people to motivate you (hopefully all the time) is definitely helpful to boost will power.

>tfw /lit/ talks about vidya more/better/deeper than /v/

As much as video games are side topic, I think it is important to conceptual about screen time (pros and cons of it). Especially for us people on 4chan. I used to think that experience from screen is as good as real life exp. Now that I got older, I think getting exp from is too easy. There is something flavourful about struggle in life.

[Anonymous No.6324735]

>>6320013
Make OC

[Anonymous No.6324746]

>>6324735
Saved.

[Anonymous No.6324768]

>>6324746
It's my first effort, glad you like it