What is the deal with the Frankfurt School and cultural Marxism? It's been on my mind lately but I don't know where to start researching about it. Is it all just a right wing conspiracy meme?

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Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:22:28 2015 No.6318293 [DELETED]

What is the deal with the Frankfurt School and cultural Marxism? It's been on my mind lately but I don't know where to start researching about it. Is it all just a right wing conspiracy meme?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:24:33 2015 No.6318298 Well there's no Wikipedia article for it so obviously there's no conspiracy.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:27:48 2015 No.6318302

>>6318293
Read Traditional Theory and Critical Theory by Horkheimer. Or really any other introductory work. In another thread, some anon suggested Adorno's lectures on Freedom and History, so maybe check those out. I'm not sure if they're available in english though.

If you won't do that, at least fuck off back to /pol/. Here at /lit/, we usually read authors before passing judgment on them.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:33:19 2015 No.6318310

>>6318298
Huh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cultural_Marxism&redirect=no

>Redirect: Frankfurt School#Conspiracy theory

Hmmmm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cultural_Marxism&action=history

>Black Kite moved page Cultural marxism to Cultural Marxism without leaving a redirect

Interesting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_marxism

>This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

Well I guess that settles it. No conspiracy here.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:36:45 2015 No.6318315

>>6318310
Well maybe the main problem with the conspiracy theory is that those who believe in it are pre-emptively disqualified by the fact that literally none of them has ever even touched a book from any Frankfurt School author. Reading is probably a conspiracy, too.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:37:30 2015 No.6318316

>>6318310
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cultural_Marxism

Huh. Looks like the first three archives for the discussion page have been mysteriously lost.

And the only thread about the deletion has a big sticker on it saying:

>The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I wonder how that all played out? Very strange...

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:45:36 2015 No.6318321

>>6318315
Yes I'm sure that any careful study of the source material would reveal that these men were upstanding patriots whose only desire was to better the European race, strengthen the foundations of Western Civilization, and defend Christianity, all the while carrying the rational process of detached academic investigation closer toward its apotheosis.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:52:27 2015 No.6318329 >>6318321 jesus, spooks on spooks on spooks. holy fucking shit.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:00:47 2015 No.6318339
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>>6318329
There's only one Ghost here, and the Holy Spirit's proper form of address isn't "spook." And I'd appreciate it if you didn't take the Lord's name in vain, you godless apostate.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:03:50 2015 No.6318342 http://www.morveninstituteoffreedom.com/FrankfurtSchool.pdf Good reading on the Frankfurt School

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:04:47 2015 No.6318345

>>6318316
In my personal experience (a decade with on the forums), the Wikipedia community is largely liberal with a few tolerable conservatives. There was probably a disagreement between the two and the whole argument was purged to prevent forum flame wars.
Discussion trees being closed/locked/hidden is pretty common practice for whenever it's difficult to form and publish an objective perspective on an article.
>>6318342
I'll give it a go, thanks.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:32:37 2015 No.6318372 >>6318293 It's a /pol/ meme, look up what you want here. http://plato.stanford.edu/ it has both a summary and further readings.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:38:58 2015 No.6318376 >>6318302 not even that, just have some critical reasoning.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:42:19 2015 No.6318379

Some of these writings,due to the heavy bond with hardcore marxism,are quite dated but the more speculative books are still very stimulating and enlighting. In particular, Adorno and Horkemeier joint effort, dialectics of enlightment, and Horkeneimer's eclipse of reason.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:43:51 2015 No.6318382 File: 25 KB, 582x382, fascism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This about sums up Adorno

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:57:03 2015 No.6318395 File: 2.53 MB, 368x349, 1402174046481.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318382 lold

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 06:30:11 2015 No.6318439 Something something Jewish conspiracy something something /pol/ something

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 06:47:59 2015 No.6318463 Someone posted this here a couple of days ago, might as well post it again, am currently reading it still http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_frankfurt.html

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 06:48:29 2015 No.6318465

>>6318293

Well, there's no Cultural Marxist conspiracy corrupting the youth, but there are Critical Theory marxist academics that make literature centred around Theory. I honestly think that people are deluding themselves if they really believe books whose philosophy that have no practical application and only exist to entertain bored college students and a way for academics to get money have such a deep impact within politics.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:04:09 2015 No.6318486 Adorno is the only Frankfurt school guy worth listening to. The rest of it is just pseudointellectualism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:06:49 2015 No.6318490 >>6318486 What about Benjamin?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:10:15 2015 No.6318496

>>6318342

pp. 299-300

Adorno left Germany in 1934: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/adorno/
A year after Hitler's rise to power.

And do you have more solid proof on that Goebbels thing? Considering Nazi practice on state & party bureaucracy it's entirely unlikely. It also makes an outright conspirator of Adorno, who (presumably at least) dedicated his life work to fighting Nazism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:12:26 2015 No.6318500 >>6318293 "cultural marxism" is a right-wing meme, yes. it means fuck-all and is just a /pol/tard's equivalent of RRREEEEEE.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:18:31 2015 No.6318509 >>6318500 This. Nobody who starts putting stars of David on the faces of people deserves to be listened. Period.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:22:16 2015 No.6318516 >>6318486 >The rest of it is just pseudointellectualism. That's rich, coming from someone who posts on 4chan.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:25:47 2015 No.6318521

>>6318321
There really is only one way to find this out, read them. But you won't do that, because you avoid everthing that might challenge your views, and accuse people who attempt to do so of conspiring to kill you.

The Frankfurt School didn't view western civilization as a fixed set of stuff that needs to be preserved, but rather as something that evolves through constant self-critique. They weren't trying to destroy it, but to save it from itself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:26:39 2015 No.6318523 >>6318496 Oh and there's this refreshing insight: "Theodore Adorno can be properly called, the father of Rock-’n-Roll music", p 300. https://youtu.be/Xd7Fhaji8ow?t=52s Check your sources anon.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:30:50 2015 No.6318529

>>6318486
Horkheimer and Benjamin are pretty based, too. Marcuse is where things start getting fishy, even though he still has some valuable insights. Habermas, on the other hand, is one watered-down, toothless cunt. Still like seeing him wreck pomo frenchies, tho.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:34:42 2015 No.6318535
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>>6318523
>Theodore Adorno can be properly called, the father of Rock-’n-Roll music
Is that entire text an elaborate ruse? No one who knows anything at all about Adorno could possibly believe that.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:43:54 2015 No.6318545

>>6318521
>There really is only one way to find this out, read them. But you won't do that, because you avoid everthing that might challenge your views, and accuse people who attempt to do so of conspiring to kill you.
I took three years of an English degree before I switched to a real discipline. I've read more than my fill of critical theory, thank you, even if a good chunk of it was secondhand.Why would I waste even more precious seconds of my life reading that meaningless bullshit? It being propaganda straight from the depths of Hell is secondary. Now here's something interesting. I'm a voracious reader and a fan of video games, comic books, television, and cinema. I'm also a neoreactionary Christian anarchist. Do you honestly think that I can go even a single day without encountering several works that "challenge" my views? Don't assume that someone is ignorant simply because they disagree with you. That in itself is fairly ignorant, wouldn't you say? But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

>The Frankfurt School didn't view western civilization as a fixed set of stuff that needs to be preserved, but rather as something that evolves through constant self-critique. They weren't trying to destroy it, but to save it from itself.
If that was their mission they not only failed but they failed in the most catastrophic manner possible.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:45:26 2015 No.6318548 >>6318509 Yes, stupid goyim. Pay no attention to the Chosen behind the curtain. You wouldn't want to be an anti-Semite, would you?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:51:25 2015 No.6318567

>>6318545
>all that uninteresting biographic nonsense
Yeah great, you still haven't read anything by any Frankfurt School author, so you're simply not entitled to having an opinion on them, as that opinion would be unfounded.
>If that was their mission they not only failed but they failed in the most catastrophic manner possible
As a matter of fact, they seem to have no impact whatsoever. Then again, no western nation has engaged in genocidal activities since WWII, so maybe they did achieve something.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:55:07 2015 No.6318573

>>6318567
Exactly how much National Socialist literature have you read? Mein Kampft? The Myth of the 20th Century? The Poison Mushroom? I'd love to hear your opinions on National Socialism. And if you haven't read any of the original sources I'm afraid you can please walk away from this discussion. You don't even need to pull your head out of your own unwashed asshole to do so. :)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 07:56:05 2015 No.6318575 >>6318548 reported. /lit/ can never be too xenophobic.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:02:58 2015 No.6318583

>>6318573
I have read more of Mein Kampf than I could recommend to anyone. That being said, NS does not really have a theoretical foundation in the conventional sense, so knowledge of its historical practices is much more valuable than reading its literary manifestations.
With the Frankfurt School, the situation is exactly reversed, as it does not even feature a practical program, but consists entirely in ivory-tower academics writing theoretical books.

So, your analogy sucks, and so do you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:07:00 2015 No.6318588 >>6318583 So in other words you've barely read a fraction of the National Socialist corpus and thus you have no right to an opinion on National Socialism. Okay. Just what I suspected. Consider yourself thoroughly disregarded, hypocrite.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:09:32 2015 No.6318595 >>6318588 Are you saying it is illegitimate to judge an ideology by its practices?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:10:56 2015 No.6318598 >>6318595 All I'm saying is that I don't need to see shit. I can smell it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:17:21 2015 No.6318610 >>6318567 > no western nation has engaged in genocidal activities since WWII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:17:46 2015 No.6318613

>>6318598
So, you reject the Frankfurt School because you vaguely associate it with things you dislike
I reject National Socialism because of the actions commited by the NS regime.
Your rejection is based on ignorance, mine is based on knowledge. You are the hypocrite.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:20:59 2015 No.6318618

>>6318610
Right, the western nations wanted to exterminate the iraqi people.
I mean, you could have brought up the british reaction to the kenyan insurrection in the 50s and maybe I would have conceded, or at least qualified my point. But that shit? Fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:22:42 2015 No.6318623 >>6318618 >i-it wasn't on purpose, we killed millions and fucked up millions of more lives on accident

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:26:10 2015 No.6318630 >>6318623 >sanctions against souvereign nations are murder Does that mean the BDS movement is trying to exterminate the jews?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:26:25 2015 No.6318632

>>6318613
lol whatever makes you feel better about rejecting an ideology you don't understand because you haven't read anything in its corpus, hypocrite. Oh, and you might want to google the genetic fallacy. You're committing it right now. National Socialism has never really been tried, in Germany or in any state. Hitler was a moderate in the NSDAP and the real theoretical basis of the movement was guys like Rosenberg and Strasser. Unlike you, I've studied Nazism in depth, but that's not why I reject it. I knew it was shit from the beginning, for the same reasons I reject Marxism. That's not because Marxists make Nazis look like amateurs in the filed of butchering innocent people, but because Marxism is an illogical system. And you know what? I've read extensively on Marxism and most of its variants. And guess what? The Frankfurt School is a form of Marxis theory. Go figure. I wouldn't live in a house made on sand. Why would I waste my time with just another a branch of insanity? I already know how these systems tick. Hell, I've already said that I've read enough critical theory as practiced by followers of the Frankfurt School to know it's bunk. Reading the original sources would simply accomplish nothing. Fuck off.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:26:43 2015 No.6318634

>>6318618
I've seen this exact same argument several times, one time it was even on the leaked 4chan janitor log. You people always regurgitate the same concise anecdotes and arguments and I always wonder where do you get them from

>it fucked up western civilization but at least there wasn't another holocaust

The funny thing is there never was any extermination

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:33:23 2015 No.6318643

>>6318632
>NS has never been tried
>Hitler wasn't a real nazi guise
10/10
Ok is there a theoreticl work that dogmaticlly defines what a nazi must do and believe, like Marx/Engels did for marxism? Didn't think so. NS is almost defined by its lack of a clear theoretical line.
>Marxism is an illogical system.
Ah, we're getting there, for the first time you say something that resembles an argument, and while your retard credentials can't be overlooked, I'd still like to hear why you think that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:34:38 2015 No.6318648 >>6318342 >http://www.morveninstituteoffreedom.com/FrankfurtSchool.pdf is this paranoid's words? 4 pages in, seems like a nationalist rumble

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:36:23 2015 No.6318649 >>6318634 What anecdote, the Mau-Mau rebellion? Got that from different sources, mostly history books. Also, it's not an anecdote, it's -almost- a genocide. What are you even on about?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:41:40 2015 No.6318657 >>6318649 That argument you used. >Political correctness / cultural Marxism prevents another holocaust

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:45:12 2015 No.6318663

>>6318657
That wasn't my argument at all you retard, I said the Frankfurt School has had almost no effect on anything. That part about genocides was lnly half-serious, as, yes, Adorno et al placed high value on genocide prevention, but no, I dln't actually believe they had enough influence to prevent them. Furthermore, political correctness has fuck all to do with the Frankfurt School.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:45:35 2015 No.6318665

>>6318643
>NS has never been tried
>Hitler wasn't a real nazi guise
I'm just using the same arguments I've seen dozens of times from Marxists trying to distance their worldview from the actions of Marxists. A system of thought is distinct from the actions of the people who try to implement (or claim to be trying to implement) that system of thought into reality. It's fallacious to conflate the two.

>Ok is there a theoreticl work that dogmaticlly defines what a nazi must do and believe, like Marx/Engels did for marxism?
There's several. I already listed two of the main ones. The Myth of the 20th Century is pretty much what you're looking for with the exception of its take on religion. Combine that with Mein Kampf and you're good to go. There's a few other documents from that time that are more or less theoretical. Since the end of the war there's been dozens of very thoroughly theoretical Nazi manifestos. Imperium is probably the go-to there.

>Ah, we're getting there, for the first time you say something that resembles an argument, and while your retard credentials can't be overlooked, I'd still like to hear why you think that.
Now you're just being a big poopie head. I don't like you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:50:53 2015 No.6318671 File: 80 KB, 612x513, jack_laugher_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318588 >National Socialist corpus The Poison Mushroom is a friggin' kiddie book friend.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:51:36 2015 No.6318674 >>6318671 That was a joke and I'm glad someone got it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:53:04 2015 No.6318679

>>6318665
So if nazism= Rosenberg+Hitler, you simply cannlt use that analogy to marxism. Lenin was already very unorthodox, and Stalin ann Mao moved even furthe from the original ideas lined out by Marx and Engels, so saying that no orthodox marxist organisation has ever had the chance to implement any policies is literally true. That however, doesn't mean we can't criticize the orthodox program, as this fact still tells you something about its practicability.
>Now you're just being a big poopie head. I don't like you
Nah you just don't like thinking. Which brings me back to my original point, you don't belong here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:54:13 2015 No.6318682 >>6318663 >Furthermore, political correctness has fuck all to do with the Frankfurt School. Not that guy, but why does everyone tie it to political correctness then? There must be some connection

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:54:20 2015 No.6318683 >>6318293 A retarded right wing conspiracy theory that doesn't even make basic sense in any sort of Marxist thought or analysis.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:54:58 2015 No.6318687 >>6318674 Oh, neat.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:58:00 2015 No.6318697

>>6318293
If you are actually interested, Google
>Cultural Marxism, Cultural Conservatism and the Frankfurt School: Making Sense of Nonsense

I can't post the link here because of the fucking filter.

Essentially Cultural Marxism is a right wing conspiracy theory about "muh reactionary feels" based on absurd misunderstandings of Marxist theory, basic philosophy and what even the Frankfurt school was.

It's literally the amalgamation of conspiratard stupid in one grand load of widely repeated bullshit by useful right wing idiots.

Oh, also it originated from Nazi propaganda.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:58:11 2015 No.6318698

>>6318683
I saw an argument about this, and they tried to shut the argument down by saying that this was an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. Right wing people are usually pro-Israel, so I found your post kinda funny.

And behind "anti-semitic conspiracy theories" are usually jews trying to hide something. This doesn't look suspicious at all
>>6318310
>>6318316

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:58:26 2015 No.6318700 >>6318682 There really, honestly isn't. The opposite really. >Marcuse losing his shit over "the negro owns a Cadillac"

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 08:58:47 2015 No.6318703

>>6318682
I have no idea, actually. Maybe because they wrote one thing or another on how societal power relations express themselves in everyday behaviour? Or how education should work as immunisation against demagogues, by teaching kids critical thinking?
Doesn't really make sense, my best guess is that the right can't live without a red scare, and they're pretty desperate since the soviet union fell.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:04:32 2015 No.6318719 >>6318682 LaRouchies are crazy.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:04:53 2015 No.6318722

>>6318679
>So if nazism= Rosenberg+Hitler, you simply cannlt use that analogy to marxism. Lenin was already very unorthodox, and Stalin ann Mao moved even furthe from the original ideas lined out by Marx and Engels, so saying that no orthodox marxist organisation has ever had the chance to implement any policies is literally true.
No true Scotsman. Anyway, like I said before, Hitler dismissed the Myth of the 20th Century and purged the radical wing of his party. There are plenty of Nazis who saw the move as a betrayal of the real movement, mostly Strasserists. If you want a pre-Night of the Long Knives "orthodox Nazism" it's probably Strasserism, which survived the war but has never been tried. Mein Kampf was published about ten years before the Night of the Long Knives so don't bother with that move.

>Nah you just don't like thinking. Which brings me back to my original point, you don't belong here.
I'd tell you to shove your point up your ass but your head's in the way.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:08:16 2015 No.6318731 >>6318698 >conspiratards try to shit up wikipedia >their plans get foiled by effective administration and quality control >see? this is proof of the conspiracy!

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:11:52 2015 No.6318746

>>6318682
Literally nothing.

You are reading into a right wing conspiracy theory that doesn't even have a basic understanding of Marx.
Expecting rational philosophical debate from ultra-reactionary, anti-intellectual conservatives is like expecting a pig to fly, they will literally just make up a narrative based on words that they don't even understand and then run with it.

I mean, look at all the fucking crying on /pol/ about "Muh Post-modernism" when not a single one of them know even what Post-modernism or even modernism is, or "muh feminism" when none of them have a grip even on the very most simple basics of sociological or feminist theory.

You have fucking Thunderf00t, Sargon of Akkad, Jordan Owen, The Amazng Athiest etc etc who spout the absolutely most fucking stupid, inane, moronic bullshit that can easily be debunked with even the most basic understanding of the the topic they are often ranting about (feminism, anthropology, history, sociology) and yet they have millions of subscribers between them. I mean, for fuck sake, none of these people even know what Patriarchy is and just rely on that stupid "DUUUR HEMAN WOMAN HATERS CLUB" fucking bullshit strawman.

The amount of fucking pretentious anti-intellectual fedora tipping stupid the right wing spout on the internet is not even funny, just tiring that I have to constantly correct people on the fucking basic dictionary definitions of words over and over and over and over again.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:13:29 2015 No.6318751 >>6318731 Not really. A butflustered self proclaimed marxist edited the Cultural Marxism article for months, until he renamed it to a conspiracy theory and finally removed it >kikepedia >quality control huehuehue

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:14:04 2015 No.6318759 >>6318746 Maybe it's you who misunderstands them?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:14:56 2015 No.6318765 File: 29 KB, 265x265, 1383572233792.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318746 >mad he can't get an audience >thinks patriarchy is a real thing >he takes his feminism very seriosly

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:15:02 2015 No.6318766

>>6318722
>No true scotsman
>says the guy who tries to tell me that Hitler wasn't a real nazi
Lenin made some significant modification to the original marxist doctrine, are you denying that? How could you, you don't even know what you're talking about.

>Hitler dismissed the Myth of the 20th Century and purged the radical wing of his party
Rosenberg was with the party til the end, that's why he was tried at Nuremberg.
>Strasserism
Ok and what makes strasserism more orthodox than Hitler? Orthodox in regard to what, actually?
Also, they did try, it just got them killed :3

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:16:36 2015 No.6318773 >>6318746 What's your point exactly? Neither of the youtubers you mentioned even pretends he's an academic critic or whatever on feminism studies, mostly they laugh at crazy shit feminist do on the internet

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:16:49 2015 No.6318777 >>6318751 As a marxist, he probably knew more about the subject matter than those trying to sell Pat Buchanan's pipe dreams as fact, just sayin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:18:59 2015 No.6318789 >>6318777 or a wikipedia shill was trying to burry something when it was actually talked about https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=cultural%20marxism

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:20:01 2015 No.6318795 >>6318789 hahaha, it even has damage control from the Guadian when it reached peak

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:20:11 2015 No.6318796

>>6318765
>mad he can't get an audience

I'm never going to put myself on Youtube.

>thinks patriarchy is a real thing

It is, if you don't think patriarchy is real, then you are an anti-intellectual fucking moron who is being contrary to the fucking entire fields of anthropology and sociology for the sake of it.

Sorry, I'm going to accept PhD's in the fields of history, anthropology and sociology have to say over reactionary morons on the internet.

>he takes his feminism very seriously

Not as serious as the fucking idiots here on 4chan and on Reddit who devote their times listening to anti-intellectual morons on Youtube, then go on twitter and /pol/ to cry about "THE FEMINAZIS" then go harass innocent women for having the gaul to have an opinion not even realizing they are being manipulated by right wing political pundits like Briebart, The American Enterprise Insitute or the MRA movement.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:21:25 2015 No.6318799 >>6318789 Or again, it's a stupid fucking conspiracy theory that literally makes no sense.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:21:29 2015 No.6318800 >>6318789 Maybe the fact that it was being talked about brought it to attention, maybe this fact led to the creation of the article in the first place. Did that article cite anything besides right-wing websites btw?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:23:26 2015 No.6318805

>>6318777
Gotta love when Conservatives start name dropping Gramsci when it's clear they don't even know who the fuck he is.

or how according to "CULTURAL MARXISM" Diamat is problem-reaction-solution.

How can you fuck up such a simple concept as Diamat? I mean jesus fucking christ, I could teach a 6 year old it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:23:56 2015 No.6318808 >>6318796 Is this satire? I've seen this level of brainwashing, but only on tumblr

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:24:44 2015 No.6318813

>>6318722
>If you want a pre-Night of the Long Knives "orthodox Nazism" it's probably Strasserism

That's wishful thinking imo, Strasserism being the more coherent and socially responsible.

What makes an Authentic Nazi? The thing is, there was no pre-Hitlerean Nazism in any real sense - Nazism was always embedded in the Party, the Scmidtean "Movement/Dynamic Political Element", that Hitler brought to prominence. This Party was also guided, almost since its inception, by the Fuhrerprinzip, particularly in its human guise, Hitler again.

To support Strasser or a Rohm, I think, you had to be a genuine schism-monger - at least from the avereage NSDAP activist's point of view. They had their constitutents, and had their influence on the NSDAP by being close to the core and by belonging to important affiliated organizations (SA being the obvious example): but they weren't the majority, and didn't owe their influence to sheer mass support.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:24:59 2015 No.6318814

>>6318766
>says the guy who tries to tell me that Hitler wasn't a real nazi
I'm literally playing devil's advocate here. Are you so wrapped up in your own bullshit that you can't see even that?

>Rosenberg was with the party til the end, that's why he was tried at Nuremberg.

Hitler said this about his book:
>I must insist that Rosenberg's The Myth of the Twentieth Century is not to be regarded as an expression of the official doctrine of the party.

He didn't like Rosenberg's religious views. He never went after the man himself.

>Ok and what makes strasserism more orthodox than Hitler? Orthodox in regard to what, actually?
The Strassers represented the spirit of the original SA, with a focus more on eliminating capitalism and creating a classless society, which was a cornerstone of Nazi ideology. Hitler recognized the value that capitalists could have to his rearmament efforts and the capitalists had done him some favours, so Hitler sided with the party moderates and purged the radicals to stop any efforts toward a "second revolution." I thought you said you were aware of Nazi history? Guess not.

>Also, they did try, it just got them killed :3
The Strasserist system was never implemented. Nazism never really faced off against German capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:25:25 2015 No.6318817 >>6318800 No, the article existed well before. When the term gained popularity, a wiki admin edited it for months then they closed it. Don't know wikipedia procedure exactly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:25:40 2015 No.6318819 >>6318796 Well then give us a working definition of the patriarchy with some evidence for its existence so that we may understand what you understand so clearly and vividly.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:28:06 2015 No.6318827

Do I have to post this in every thread? There is no "cultural Marxism" as such. The term is a misnomer created by uneducated Americans to fuel a half-baked conspiracy theory so they can believe they're all self-reliant individuals responsible for their own actions while conveniently having a scapegoat - the Jews - to blame for their own mediocrity or failure, all the while being too stupid to realize the contradictions in believing this.

>https://english.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/Horkheimer%20and%20Adorno_Culture%20Industry.pdf

At least read this or shut up. When will people realize that Adorno and Horkheimer ARE the "red pill"?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:29:34 2015 No.6318836 >>6318799 Well I've read those conspiracies and arguments...and people who are into marxism, like some people in this thread behave in exactly the same way those conspiracies describe. It's a strange coincidence

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:30:36 2015 No.6318840 >>6318827 So is it right wing conspiracy or anti-semitic conspiracy, because they are mutually exclusive

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:31:59 2015 No.6318843

>>6318819
Are you fucking serious dude? I honestly can't tell if you are this stupid or if you are just trolling

>Working definition.

"Patriarchy is a social system in which: males hold primary power; males predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property; and, in the domain of the family, fathers or father-figures hold authority over women and children."

>some evidence for its existence

Literally the entirety of fucking society? Are you serious?

Again, Patriarchy is not a controversial subject in any academic field. If you seriously don't believe patriarchy exists, then you mayswell start arguing against the existence of gravity or evolution.
What gives you the right to think you are so much smarter than essentially every single historian, sociologist and anthropologist on the globe for essentially the past 100 years?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:32:20 2015 No.6318844

>>6318814
>I'm literally playing devil's advocate here. Are you so wrapped up in your own bullshit that you can't see even that?
This is a nice take on the eternal classic, I was only pretending to be retarded.
Playing the devil's advocate only makes sense if you can make your case, and don't have to admit your own insincerity halfway through.
>He didn't like Rosenberg's religious views. He never went after the man himself.
In other wordsm NS ksn't characterized by a commitment to any particular religious view.
>muh original SA
And again, what makes the position of the original SA more important or more orthodox than the position of the Führer? Nothing.
>Nazism never really faced off against German capitalism.
You should be able to notice a pattern there. All fascist movemens (in the broad sense of the word) have been extremely pragmatic, and avoided formulating clear principles of policy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:35:06 2015 No.6318850 >>6318817 Interesting. So the popularity of the term brought the article to attention, and led to its deletion, just like you'd delete an article on reptilians being real that cites David Icke as a source. Normal fucking procedure.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:35:50 2015 No.6318854 >>6318850 nothing to see here

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:36:58 2015 No.6318858 >>6318854 Exactly.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:37:48 2015 No.6318862 I finally got what this thread reminds me off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms45EzMR0f8

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:39:16 2015 No.6318869

>>6318840
It's a dumb people conspiracy. I don't know about the political leanings of whoever created it, but I know anecdotally from people I've met who believe it that they also vote for the same people (Republican in America, or Conservatives in Canada) who are pro-Israel.

It's possible for people to hold contradictory or even nonsensical opinions, and that's one of the big problems in North America nowadays, especially because the internet.

It's easy to believe a stupid infographic, like the ones always posted on /pol/, instead of actually doing research into these things to figure it out for yourself.

We also live in a society that churns out mass media at an alarming rate through YouTube, the cinema, the radio, television, and so much more that turns people into docile consumers (just like Adorno & Horkheimer warned us about!) and further contributes to the anti-intellectual culture of North America, where people are even afraid of universities now because they "indoctrinate" people.

What a surprise! North Americans are lazy AND stupid! Must be the Jews, right?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:42:56 2015 No.6318883

>>6318840
>right wing and antisemitic are mutually exclusive
Are you literally retarded? Antisemitism can be found all across the political spectrum. On the left, it usually takes the form of anti-zionism or rants about jewish bankers, on the right it tends to blame the jews for socialism and cultural degeneracy. Wrap your mind around that, or die trying.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:43:04 2015 No.6318885

>>6318844
>This is a nice take on the eternal classic, I was only pretending to be retarded. Playing the devil's advocate only makes sense if you can make your case, and don't have to admit your own insincerity halfway through.
You're an idiot whose tiny intellect feels threatened by a pinch of Socratic irony.

>In other wordsm NS ksn't characterized by a commitment to any particular religious view.
That depends on how you want to define "particular."

>And again, what makes the position of the original SA more important or more orthodox than the position of the Führer? Nothing.
The original position of the Fuhrer was the position of the original SA. Maybe you should finish reading Mein Kampf or even just listen to some of his speeches if you can't muster up the enormous physical energy such a herculean task would require of you? Maybe I'm starting to see your point about the importance of reading the original sources after all.

>You should be able to notice a pattern there. All fascist movemens (in the broad sense of the word) have been extremely pragmatic, and avoided formulating clear principles of policy.
Doctrinal flexibility is a policy in itself as stated in Mein Kampf, but Nazism had a pretty solid theory laid out clearly. Maybe Hitler would have taken on the German capitalists if the Axis had won the war? Who knows. The USSR allied with the Western capitalists so if you're expecting any ideology to be free of pragmatism I think you're expecting too much. The defenders of an ideology can pretty much always point to this. The world of ideas and the world of actions are different. You can't judge an idea-system just on the actions of its adherents. You need to understand the system as an idea first. Deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:45:25 2015 No.6318894 >>6318883 Most of the people/media who wrote articles or made videos about cultural marxism are also big supporters of Israel is what I'm saying

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:51:37 2015 No.6318908

But what exactly is the conspiracy theory. As I understand the Frankfurt School was created by Marxist intellectuals to examine why the social revolution didn't take hold in the west as it did in Russia. So they decided that the culture was too ingrained into people and the culture was controlled and created by the ruling class right? So they fused Freudianism and Marxism and some other fields in order to attack the culture? Is this the conspiracy theory?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:52:28 2015 No.6318910 File: 153 KB, 600x563, 1421357170096.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] clearly it's a conspiracy

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:53:51 2015 No.6318915 >>6318908 FUCK OFF BACK TO /POL/ YOU ANTISEMITE!

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 09:59:28 2015 No.6318928 File: 94 KB, 1350x653, fuck off poltard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] every fucking day

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:01:10 2015 No.6318934

>>6318894
>Most of the people/media who wrote articles or made videos about cultural marxism are also big supporters of Israel is what I'm saying
A look a /pol/ on an average day would convince you otherwise. Classical, hardcore antisemites hate leftist jews and zioist jews with equal passion.
That being said, yeah, it's weird how the pro-zionist christian right will latch onto classical anti-semitic theories of evil leftist jewish infiltrators.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:05:55 2015 No.6318950

>>6318908
I found this interview of Marcuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pzfy2izu44

And the host says exactly what I said. And Marcuse doesn't bother to correct him, so I guess it can't be far from the truth. And according to the interview he was very influential. So what's the laughable conspiracy theory here?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:09:56 2015 No.6318959

>>6318934
Not usually in the business of defending pat buchanan, but he was pretty consistently critical of the republicans jumping into bed with the israeli right. The christian zionists and the paleocons are both creepy, but tend to run in different circles.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:12:38 2015 No.6318966

>>6318885
>You're an idiot whose tiny intellect feels threatened by a pinch of Socratic irony
Ironic, even socratically ironic retardation is still retardation.
>That depends on how you want to define "particular."
Well, if "anything that isn't too jewish and makes us strong will do" is a particular religious view, I retract my statement.
>The original position of the Fuhrer was the position of the original SA
Hitler never was a strasserite. And if Mein Kampf had been a dogmatically strasserite work, wouldn't it have been a dangerous idea to force every household to own a copy, after having eliminated the strasserite faction?
>Nazism had a pretty solid theory laid out clearly.
Volksgemeinschaft, Führer, Antisemitismus. That's literally all there is to NS 'theory'. There is no ideal system of NS, or of any branch of fascism. Deal with that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:15:02 2015 No.6318973 File: 24 KB, 359x415, B4Kl2vECYAA-2FE[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6318950 Why are all the SJW anti-capitalist or openly Marxist? Is it just a coincidence?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:15:43 2015 No.6318975 >>6318959 So there you have it, a right-winger who is also a classical antisemite, hating both zionist and leftist jews.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:19:42 2015 No.6318985 >>6318973 It's because the basis of modern feminism is post-modern and Marxist critical theory

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:20:25 2015 No.6318987 >>6318975 So there you have it, a poster's statements made irrelevant with a simple ad-hominem

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:21:19 2015 No.6318989 >>6318302 >we usually read authors before passing judgment on them. well meme'd my man

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:22:01 2015 No.6318990 >>6318973 social justice come from marxism, same thing with women being oppressed, thats marxism too. did you know aristocratic women are oppressed by all their wealth and power and should abandon it all for marxism?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:23:00 2015 No.6318991 >>6318973 It's trendy, they are like the Che shirt people.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:23:12 2015 No.6318992 >>6318950 He doesn't actually say that they wanted to attack or subvert culture, just that they examined it from a marxist perspective. No one ever denied that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:24:38 2015 No.6318994 >>6318987 Where's the ad hominem in that, are you denying that Buchanan is antisemitic?

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:24:43 2015 No.6318995

>>6318293
It's all about critical theory, which is the school of thought that seeks to critique and change society and culture via critical thought. Traditional theory on the other hand attempts solely to explain and understand.

However, critical theory isn't what most people are talking about when they say cultural marxism. They're generally referring to postmodernism, which is critical theory taken to absurdity of the total denial of the concepts of free will, objective truth, and objective morality.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:30:08 2015 No.6319006

>>6318995
It's denial of those things insofar as we can even deal with and use them to make statements about reality. Free will explains far less than societal structures, and truth is something that is, if real, completely unattainable by human subjects. Striving for objective morality is dangerous insofar as it opens us up to tyrannical rule - we might be better fractioning off and determining our own moralities as self governing, disparate collectives and individuals.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:30:11 2015 No.6319007

>>6318995
It might be worth pointing out that these absurd turns contemporary 'critical theory' (it hardly deserves that name anymore) has take stem largely from its integration with heideggerian concepts and those of french Heideggerboos. Which is pretty weird considering how much the original Frankfurters hated that guy.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:30:54 2015 No.6319011 Let's just say that Christ didn't call the Jews the Sons of Satan without of reason.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:38:32 2015 No.6319023 File: 37 KB, 460x276, Albrecht-Durers-engraving-007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6319011 >De Profundis

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:39:20 2015 No.6319027

The Jews are surprisingly evil. It's like they are a separate species from the rest of mankind.
I don't know what image you have the Jews, but I guarantee you that they are worse than what you think they are. Gentiles don't know how evil Jews can be, because they are naive and it would never enter into their minds that someone could be so evil.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:41:11 2015 No.6319031 >>6319027 Also, bear in mind that the Jews of today are on the side of the men that killed the prophets, not on the side of the prophets themselves.

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:43:51 2015 No.6319037

>>6319006
>Free will explains far less than societal structures
Free will matters as much to human interaction with social structures as the social structures themselves, limited by only how much you are willing to exercise it.
>Striving for objective morality is dangerous insofar as it opens us up to tyrannical rule
And subjective morality is dangerous insofar as it opens us up to the degradation of the social bonds by which society functions. You employ critical thought to prevent tyranny, not to find a way to rationalize everything as tyranny.
>and truth is something that is, if real, completely unattainable by human subjects
Many things are unattainable, but that isn't a reason to assume that it isn't real or not attempt to reach it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:51:31 2015 No.6319060 File: 2.96 MB, 4622x3683, Red Pill.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:55:06 2015 No.6319072

>>6319037
By expanding analysis from free will to outside forces we expand our ability to make judgments about actions performed with free will - it's a way of rolling back the innumerable and dealing with it with our limited human consciousness.
I don't know how a subjective morality opens us up to the degradation of social bonds by which society functions - can you step me through that thought?
I wasn't saying that we shouldn't strive to truth, just that there might be a single objective truth which is unattainable, and so we can only work to perceive innumerable individual, fragmented truths.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 10:57:46 2015 No.6319079 >>6319060 they "created" the positivist crisis?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 26 11:25:05 2015 No.6319155 For anyone with any interest in how the Frankfurt School has any application to literary studies may be interested in watching this Yale lecture: https://youtu.be/FFpGf7aPXNA?list=PLD00D35CBC75941BD

Anonymous Thu Mar 26 11:34:00 2015 No.6319182

>>6319072
>By expanding analysis from free will to outside forces we expand our ability to make judgments about actions performed with free will - it's a way of rolling back the innumerable and dealing with it with our limited human consciousness.

I agree, but that isn't postmodern theory. Postmodern theory disregards the role of an individuals almost completely in favor of external factors.

>I don't know how a subjective morality opens us up to the degradation of social bonds by which society functions - can you step me through that thought?

An objective moral standard is one aligned with what best reduces unnecessary harm and what positively benefits the conscious beings affected by it. A relative moral standard assumes that because an objective moral standard cannot be universally true, that it is universally untrue. It's, in essence, a collectivist vs individualist viewpoint conflict, where the collective view attempts to better society for all individuals, whereas the individualist view attempts to have each individual attempt to better society for themselves. Under subjective morality, they view the first scenario as unattainable. This creates a social conflict as groupings of differing subjective moralities clash.

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/lit/ - Literature