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/lit/ - Literature


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File: 21 KB, 393x480, CPSnow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6007057 No.6007057 [Reply] [Original]

>A good many times I have been present at gatherings of people who, by the standards of the traditional culture, are thought highly educated and who have with considerable gusto been expressing their incredulity at the illiteracy of scientists. Once or twice I have been provoked and have asked the company how many of them could describe the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The response was cold: it was also negative. Yet I was asking something which is the scientific equivalent of: Have you read a work of Shakespeare’s?

>I now believe that if I had asked an even simpler question — such as, What do you mean by mass, or acceleration, which is the scientific equivalent of saying, Can you read? — not more than one in ten of the highly educated would have felt that I was speaking the same language. So the great edifice of modern physics goes up, and the majority of the cleverest people in the western world have about as much insight into it as their neolithic ancestors would have had.

-C P Snow, author of "The Two cultures".

>> No.6007097

>STEM
>human

>> No.6007106

>>6007057

>muh feelings when people smarter than me elect not to encourage my reductive hobbyist worldview

>> No.6007114

>>6007097
>>6007106
>2015
>still proudly ignorant of science

>> No.6007207

>>6007057
i dont give a fuck about autistic mathematicians.

>> No.6007214

>>6007057
Heck I am trained in STEM, I work in STEM, all my career credentials are in STEM.

I read pleb genre books for fun (including science fiction). Are you saying I should never come to /lit/?

>> No.6007215

>>6007114
>muh intellect
*tips fedora*

>>/sci/
/r9k/

>> No.6007219

>>6007214
>reading for fun

>> No.6007266

Same thing could be said about any subject.

>> No.6007283

>>6007266
This.
I'm confused as to what he's trying to say since he obviously knows the same applies in reverse in his example.

>> No.6007287

>>6007283
Oops.
I meant to say "I'm confused as to what his point is"

>> No.6007299

>>6007283
i doubt he would have said it if he hadn't read shakespeare though

>> No.6007303

>>6007283
>>6007207
>>6007214

Why do you assume STEM people can't enjoy literature? The reverse does not apply, plenty of scientists have an understanding of Literature, but most literature types are unwilling to maintain even the most basic grasp of the sciences.

>> No.6007324

This is the intellectual equivalent of "My dad could beat up your dad,"

>> No.6007329

>>6007324
no it's not.

>> No.6007352

>>6007303
STEM people can't into philosophy let alone continental philosophy (which is the only one that counts)

>> No.6007374

>>6007303
Because when you've gone too far into literature you realize how pointless STEM is.

>> No.6007416

>>6007329
Yes it is.

>My field of study is more important!
>No, MY field of study is more important!
>Your field doesn't know anything about my field
>Yeah, well your field doesn't know anything about MY field.

Like it's some kind of startling fucking revelation that most people who have dedicated their lives and careers to a specific intellectual pursuit don't have a wide berth of knowledge about another, completely unrelated one. What exactly does flinging shit from from these two little camps like you owe something to the fucking concept of books or science really accomplish?

>> No.6007431

>>6007303
Because they literally admit on this board that they only read escapist trash and get super butthurt that it's dogshit

>> No.6007432

>>6007416
>What exactly does flinging shit from from these two little camps like you owe something to the fucking concept of books or science really accomplish?

It's a self-suck. Feels good to self-suck, bro. Try it and see.

>> No.6007439

>>6007374
i had the opposite experience. my english BA has 100% soured me on literature, philosophy, art, the humanities, etc. Before you ask I went to a highly ranked school, graduated with honors, and got entry into excellent second entry professional programs, so it's not like I did anything wrong or that I am bitter about not having $ opportunities as a result of doing humanities.

>> No.6007440 [DELETED] 

That is kind of sad that people don't have at least some grasp of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Especially because it actually has significant philosophical implications.

>> No.6007457

>>6007057
That is kind of sad that these 'educated' people don't have at least some grasp of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Especially because it actually has significant philosophical implications.

>> No.6007467

>>6007439
And yet here you are posting on /lit/

>> No.6007471

>>6007457

Such as?

>> No.6007474

>>6007467
just procrastinating PAL. I don't even read books anymore if they aren't full of numbers

>> No.6007485

i've read snow, tried the chemistry, physics, and math paths and none worked out because i didn't really care that much, and saw that the people around me didn't care about what i cared about. after these experiences, i didn't feel as though i had to press myself into a spiritual death to intellectually validate myself, nor did i have to intellectually validate myself if i had anything like authentic self-respect. i have not "ignored stem" because i've been stem for much of my life, nor am i ignorant of scientific topics insofar as they have an impact on the things i care about

>> No.6007508

>>6007485
You still sound bitter towards STEM. Funny how this usually comes from failure. People find the lit lifestyle comforting as it gives the appearance of intelligence, but no objective measure to hold themselves against.

>> No.6007519

>>6007471
That all action(and by extension, life) will eventually cease due to the heat death of the universe and there's literally nothing we can do to stop it.

>> No.6007521

>>6007416
The point is, you would consider someone who has never read Shakespeare uneducated, but not if they did not know the laws of thermodynamics.
Why not require both?

>> No.6007533
File: 49 KB, 674x459, 12.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6007533

>>6007519
>that
>significant philosophical implications

>> No.6007534

>>6007508
>You still sound bitter towards STEM.
not really. engaging with the material allowed me to find out what i really wanted to do in life.

>Funny how this usually comes from failure.
please keep your negative projection away from me, thank you

>no objective measure to hold themselves against.
why would i need an objective measure of my own intelligence? i don't consider myself a failure, have close friends who i consider my family, and enjoy what i do every day. that is as objective a measure of my own intelligence as i need

>> No.6007537

>>6007519

That's not necessarily true, if we see the universe as something other than a closed set of possible entropic states

>> No.6007951

>>6007057
Arts promote personal growth and emotional awareness, and provide shared points of reference for communication about universal problems. Everybody benefits from that, and every intelligent person should be expected to be literate in them.

Science is a technical field and has no relevance to ordinary people who don't live in a lab. How is having knowledge of a trvial scientific principle you'll never have a need to know anything like having a working understanding of such a source of wisdom as Hamlet?

>> No.6007958
File: 36 KB, 250x378, bert.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6007958

Daily reminder that if you want to be a philosopher you need a maths degree.

>> No.6007969

>>6007958
Bertrand Russell wasn't a philosopher, he was an autistic prick who destroyed the greatest source of philosophical wisdom in the Britain he lived in (the British school of idealism, represented by Bradley, Green, Bosanquet, McTaggart, Oakeshott) with his massive autism.

>> No.6007978

>>6007969

>Bradley, Green, Bosanquet, McTaggart, Oakeshott

Literally who: the school of thought

>> No.6007987

>>6007519
physical laws are subject to change
this is why buddhism is #1

>> No.6007992
File: 24 KB, 320x240, 1396970386642.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6007992

>>6007969
>waah maths is too hard
>philosophy is about baseless opinions and conjecture!!!

>> No.6008022

>>6007992
I guarantee you've never read or studied a serious work of idealist philosophy.

>> No.6008025

>>6008022
That's because I only study real philosophy.

>> No.6008031

>>6007057

He backpedalled later. :]

>> No.6008263

>theoretical physics
lmao kid lmao

>> No.6009143

>People still think that can make art and literature in this tranny culture called West.

>People doesn't realize that we are just in the last stage of our culture, the pragmatic and imperialist one.

STEM and Business is the big daddy because it's what makes the world work

>> No.6009166

>>6007431

2 or 3 shitposters does not mean we are all autistic faggots whit pleb tier taste.

>> No.6009178
File: 33 KB, 356x374, 1416511908282.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6009178

>autistic faggots whit pleb tier taste

>> No.6010034

English and math double-major here, I've never even heard of CP Snow before this but he sounds chill and I agree with him.

>> No.6010057

>>6007439
Funny, I had a similar experience in STEM. Graduated with a degree in chemistry, was all about science during and briefly after. For a time I was thinking of pursuing a PhD and making it a career, but then I realized how burnt out I was. Writing lab report after lab report, seminars, all the bullshit that comes with it (I shouldn't say bullshit, it's just rigorous science, but I digress). In any case, sometimes after four years of constant exposure to a craft, you need a break, sometimes permanently. For me, at least, I know I'll be back to enjoying science at some point in the future. But now, literature has my full attention.

>> No.6010058

>hurrr STEM master race, 300k
>hurr autistic robots, try reading hide-a-Gir
STEM-Hum wars are the shittiest thing ever.

>> No.6011384

>>6007537
the universe could just suffer heat death, and then the weak gravity over trillions of years, or even longer, eventually pulls all the basic particles of the universe back together into a new cosmic egg, starting over again

>> No.6011411

>>6007303
>The reverse does not apply
Prove it.

Why do you assume "literature types" can't like science?

>> No.6011425

i like physics and i dont make fun of stem fags at parties so im just gonna leave this thread

>> No.6011484

>>6007057
I was a math major in college and enjoy literature. False dichotomy is false.

Also, read some math books guys they are amazing in a way I haven't found anywhere else.

>> No.6011488
File: 11 KB, 300x300, STEM graduate about to cash in that 500k.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6011488

I've always thought it was kind of laughable that STEMs thought their subjects were harder. Half their modules are literally just memorizing words for multiple choice exams. I work as a proofreader and I often get dissertations and the STEM ones are usually laughably bad. I tend to cut 50% of their work and probably only 20% for humanity papers. I get the feeling a lot of difficulty in the sciences is just because none of them can write simple English.

>> No.6011489

>>6011484
Can you give some recs? I've read a few on symbolic logic and history of math, but that's not really the same, I guess.

>> No.6011507

>>6011489
It depends on what you're interested in and how hard you're willing to go. Reading math is hard.

Principles of Mathematical Analysis by Rudin was the book we used for beginning analysis, which was an awesome series.

Topology by munkries

Check out an intro to algebra (not the sixth grade stuff), or calculus based probability/statistics. Whatever sounds interesting.

Easiest way to start off though depending on your interest/experience would be an intro calc or linear algebra book.

>> No.6011556

Some people just find their strength lies in language and some in math.

All these adolescent pissing contests from either side mean a whole lot of nothing.

>> No.6011633

>like programming
>like reading
>do both

>> No.6011659
File: 2.90 MB, 1386x1240, muh books.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6011659

>being willfully ignorant
>not being a part of the STEM master race
top pleb

>> No.6011666
File: 324 KB, 1804x716, exam problem.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
6011666

>>6011488
>multiple choice exams
that doesn't happen. pic related, an example of a problem on a STEM exam

>> No.6011677

>>6011484
>some math books
now that's what I call autism

>>
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