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/lit/ - Literature

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5450358 No.5450358 [Reply] [Original]

Would you recommend this philosophy to anybody? Also, what does
the bio-hazard sign on the Hagakure have to do with the book?

>> No.5450464

>>5450358
Bump

>> No.5450472

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because there's very little actually useful stuff in there, there's a lot of "you have to be ok with dying all the time" stuff in this, i.e., if you're not a sword fighter you don't really care.

>biohazard symbol
This cover is just a random Japanese mon.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Moji_mon_%28Japanese_crests%29

>> No.5450481

>>5450358

this philosophy has no application if u dont live in feudal times. it's not simply about dying but dying for your master

>> No.5450484

>>5450358
It's certainly not a philosophy compatible with modern living. That said, it does have some interesting points to say about concepts such as honour, self-reliance, willpower, adherence/loyalty.

>> No.5450496
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5450496

>>5450484
>philosophy compatible with modern living
Such as?

>> No.5450499

>>5450496

existentialism

>> No.5450506

>>5450496
taoism

>> No.5450513

>>5450506

epic troll

>> No.5450517

>>5450506
Isn't samurai philosophy a composite of a few philosophies?

>> No.5450520

>>5450517

im facepalming so hard right now

>> No.5450523
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5450523

>>5450358
I would recommend it to samurais who are dealing with threat of death on daily basis. No, actually it is very interesting book, especially the parts influenced by the buddhism:

"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one fully understands the present moment, there will be nothing else to do, and nothing else to pursue. Live being true to the single purpose of the moment. Everyone lets the present moment slip by, then looks for it as though he thought it were somewhere else."

Also there are some pretty innovative parts about morality given the date it was written:

"To hate injustice and stand on righteousness is a difficult thing. Furthermore, to think that being righteous is the best one can do and to do one's utmost to be righteous will, on the contrary, bring many mistakes. The Way is in a higher place than righteousness. This is very difficult to discover, but it is the highest wisdom. When seen from this standpoint, things like righteousness are rather shallow. If one does not understand this on his own, it cannot be known. There is a method of getting to this Way, however, even if one cannot discover it by himself. This is found in consultation with others. Even a person who has not attained this Way sees others from the side. It is like the saying from the game of go: "He who sees from the side has eight eyes." The saying, "Thought by thought we see our own mistakes," also means that the highest Way is in discussion with others."

>> No.5450534

The philosophy of immediacy is more something you develop naturally over time than take from some dead Japs book.

>> No.5450541
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5450541

>>5450534
Does the iron not need tempered? -my ass

>> No.5450550

>>5450534

wanker

>> No.5450552

>>5450534
>more pathos than logos

>> No.5450554

>>5450534

you should stop posting here

>> No.5450555

>>5450550
What is with you fucking brits? I tried to study abroad and I ended up getting a masters in hob-knocking

>> No.5450558

>>5450541
Does the butter not need churned? -my willy

>> No.5450561

>>5450555

go eat your cereal son

>> No.5450565

>>5450558
That is actually a good metaphor for the self, Namaste.

>> No.5450795

>>5450496
Egoism.

>> No.5450830
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5450830

>>5450795
>Egoism
I am think you may be trolling me.

>> No.5450845

>>5450358

This is the equivalent of the art of manliness or other retarded "we want to be man but we're stuck with the face of a child" things that are popular today.
It was written by a poet who barely fought against anyone and during an age where the stuff described in the book didn't actually happen.

>> No.5450862

>>5450845
He had no master to fight for, he died, who would he fight? " This is the equivalent of the art of manliness or other retarded " it isn't really full of male empowerment.

>> No.5450897

It comes in handy if you're trying to build a fascist regime.
Or any system based on strict hierarchy if you change a few things.

>> No.5451286

>>5450481
If you interpret master as an ideal or some life mission, it could work.

>> No.5451318

>>5451286
You act like people do not have masters anymore.

>> No.5451407

>>5451318
Only because they wish me to.

>> No.5451717

The original title is the "Book of Five Rings". That Biohazard sign is simply the five rings.

>> No.5451738

>>5451717
The Book of Five Rings is by Musashi Mishamoto.

>> No.5452020

I loved it to hell and yes I recommended it to a lot of people.

Its very traditionally manly and its a great influence for young men compared to the androgynising trash that would otherwise be shoved in their face.

" THERE WAS a certain retainer of Ikeda Shingen’s who started an argument with a man, grappled him to the ground, thrashed him soundly, and trampled on him until his companions ran up and pulled them apart. The elders conferred over this and said, «The man who was trampled should be punished.» Shingen heard this and said, «A fight is something that goes to the finish. A man who forgets the Way of the Samurai and does not use his sword will be forsaken by the gods and Buddhas. As an example to subsequent retainers, both men should be crucified.» The men who had pulled them apart were banished. "

The text is pretty based. Its not a jewel of philosophy but its entertaining and short. definately worth a read.

>> No.5452046

>>5450358
Reminder that the samurai were exploitative lazy shits and the only ones who lived the code were ronin because they refused to take part in large scale corruption.

>> No.5452766

>>5450358
"...the end is important in all things."

I loved that book. Got it after The Art of War.
Thanks for reminding me to dig them out after a long time OP.

>> No.5452832

It is said that what is called "the spirit of an ape' ' is seine- thing to which one cannot return. That this spirit gradually dissipates is due to the world's coming to an end. In the same way, a single year does not have just spring or summer. A single day, too, is the same.
For this reason, although one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. This is the mistake of people who are attached to past generations. They have no understanding of this point.
On the other hand, people who only know the disposition of the present day and dislike the ways of the past are too lax.

>> No.5453390

>>5451286

then why don't you just recommend the book of five rings? he makes the point pretty clear to anyone with little room for mistranslation

>> No.5453646

>>5452046
The author was a Rōnin

>> No.5453853

>>5451286
>If you interpret master as an ideal or some life mission
you mean, spooks.

>> No.5454286

>>5453853
What?

>> No.5454799

>>5453853
>you mean, spooks.
Are you saying you want to be black, or that black people are your master?

>> No.5454808

>Hagakure

Oh wow, a cool samurai book these guys must be Alpha as fuck

>a samurai should always wear his powdered rouge
>you should die for your retainer no matter what, be like a slave
>it's okay to fuck men, as long as you still marry a woman and have kids

LOL samurais were gay as fuck

>> No.5454837

>>5454808
This is quite funny because you just made fun of people who make unfounded hypothesis, when that is what you just did about this book.

>> No.5454842

>>5450520
Is it not?

>> No.5454847

>>5454837

the first two are in Hagakure explicitly.
the last hypothesis is from a different samurai book.

so he's right.

>> No.5454849
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5454849

>>5454808
>>5454837

"It is good to carry some powdered rouge in one’s sleeve. It may happen that when one is sobering up or waking from sleep, his complexion may be poor. At such a time it is good to take out and apply some powdered rouge." --- Yamamoto Tsunetomo from the Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai

>> No.5454855

>>5454847
Well I guess I have been thoroughly dunked, but hey whats wrong with aesthetic maintenance?

>> No.5455070

>>5450358
So does anybody know what the symbol is suppose to mean in the context?

>> No.5455085

>>5455070

It's got elements of a KAMON.

But it's not a real Kamon. It's just a biohazard sign

>The biohazard symbol was developed by the Dow Chemical Company in 1966 for their containment products.[1] According to Charles Baldwin,[1] an environmental-health engineer who contributed to its development: "We wanted something that was memorable but meaningless, so we could educate people as to what it means." In an article in Science in 1967, the symbol was presented as the new standard for all biological hazards ("biohazards"). The article explained that over 40 symbols were drawn up by Dow artists, and all of the symbols investigated had to meet a number of criteria: "(i) striking in form in order to draw immediate attention; (ii) unique and unambiguous, in order not to be confused with symbols used for other purposes; (iii) quickly recognizable and easily recalled; (iv) easily stenciled; (v) symmetrical, in order to appear identical from all angles of approach; and (vi) acceptable to groups of varying ethnic backgrounds." The chosen scored the best on nationwide testing for memorability.[4]

>> No.5455113
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5455113

>A certain person was brought to shame because he did not take revenge. The way of revenge lies in simply forcing one’s way into a place and being cut down. There is no shame in this. By thinking that you must complete the job you will run out of time. By considering things like how many men the enemy has, time piles up; in the end you will give up. No matter if the enemy has thousands of men, there is fulfillment in simply standing them off and being determined to cut them all down, starting from one end. You will finish the greater part of it.

>Concerning the night assault of Lord Asano’s ronin, the fact that they did not commit seppuku at the Sengakuji was an error, for there was a long delay between the time their lord was struck down and the time when they struck down the enemy.

>If Lord Kira had died of illness within that period, it would have been extremely regrettable. Because the men of the Kamigata area have a very clever sort of wisdom, they do well at praiseworthy acts but cannot do things indiscriminately, as was done in the Nagasaki fight.

>Although all things are not to be judged in this manner, I mention it in the investigation of the Way of the Samurai. When the time comes, there is no moment for reasoning. And if you have not done your inquiring beforehand, there is most often shame. Reading books and listening to people’s talk are for the purpose of prior resolution.

>Above all, the Way of the Samurai should be in being aware that you do not know what is going to happen next, and in querying every item day and night. Victory and defeat are matters of the temporary force of circumstances. The way of avoiding shame is different. It is simply in death.

>Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.

>still browsing /lit/

>> No.5455117

>>5455113

you realize hagakure was basically a way to brainwash japanese into becoming mindless soldiers for different lords?

it's akin to CIA brainwashing, except it's advertised as "self-help" lol

>> No.5455132

>>5455117
>He can't enjoy propaganda unless it's directed at him

>> No.5455161

>>5455113
I wonder if had Yamamoto's master not been against junshi would he have killed himself?

>> No.5457042

>>5455161
If he had, the dishonor wouldn't have left at death.

>> No.5457094
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5457094

>>5455132
>He needs to be affected by the propaganda to value it

>> No.5458928

>>5450358
Just sent out for it at Barns & Noble. Four day shipping wait for something being sent about 2 miles away.

>> No.5459197

This is my favourite book, almost like a bible to me

>> No.5459205

Can you show an example of anyone who conscious incorporates samurai-philosophy into their lives and isn't an autist? If so, they probably are dedicating to practicing at least one martial art. Are you?

>> No.5459248

>>5459205
Like, you want me to tell you all the people who have read this book, offhand? Well, a lot I assume, a bit of them I am sure plenty are like what you have described, sure.

>> No.5459253
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5459253

>>5459248

>> No.5459287

>>5459205
I might into sword play, but I don't think it matters.

>> No.5459836

>>5450358

8/10 get PDF online and read it. I did, I found it worth my time.

>As if with the nut and flower, the nut has become less than the flower...both those teaching and those learning are concerned with colouring and showing off their technique, trying to hasten the bloom of the flower.