Cynicism is for Cowards

[Anonymous No.5073875]

When did you grow out of cynicism/pessimism /lit/? When did you realize that life, and people, are pretty fucking great, and that thinking otherwise is a teenager's mentality?

"Laugh, and the world laughs with you;
Weep, and you weep alone;
For the sad old earth must borrow its mirth,
But has trouble enough of its own.
Sing, and the hills will answer;
Sigh, it is lost on the air;
The echoes bound to a joyful sound,
But shrink from voicing care."

[Anonymous No.5073880]

>>5073875
When will you realize you should go back to reddit plebeian scum.

[Anonymous No.5073881]

If some people didn't see the world as shitty as it is then how could it get any better?
You are probably some kind of "humanist" moron who can't see his own flaws.

[Anonymous No.5073883]

Late teens

[Anonymous No.5073884]

>>5073880
>plebeian

[Anonymous No.5073888]

>>5073875
retarded quotes that seem all encompassing and insightful because of their context are quickly becoming my biggest pet peeve

[Anonymous No.5073896]

>>5073881
See the world as shitty doesn't help you make it better. The only way you can identify and fix problems in yourself and elsewhere is to remain hopeful, otherwise you fall into the "what's the point" attitude. Cynicism never improved anything or anyone. It's simply a crutch people use to justify why they aren't happy/successful.

[Anonymous No.5073898]

>>5073884
>not knowing the root of pleb is plebeian

[Anonymous No.5073904]

>>5073896
You can be the change you want to see. The most important is to try to be the most objective as possible, and to keep an eye looking over your shoulder.

[Anonymous No.5073913]

>>5073875
Philosophy made me understand that the whole point of life is to be happy. So I started to appreciate, question and enjoy life because we really have like two minutes in this wonderful world. It's good life

[Anonymous No.5073927]

>>5073875
Serious answer: at 19 when my best friend killed himself and I realized my mindset and outlook have an lasting impact on not just myself but everyone around me as well

[Anonymous No.5073928]

>>5073904
>try to be the most objective as possible
agreed
>keep an eye looking over your shoulder
disagree. it took me a long to figure out that people act the way you expect them to, i.e., if you act suspicious of your SO, eventually they will internalize that and cheat, if you treat a black man as a criminal for long enough eventually they will get worn down and act that way. There is nothing anyone can take from you or do to you that is worth the trade of always keeping people at arm's length. I don't have my Bible handy but one of the most inspiring things to me is Jesus's bit about turning the other cheek, if someone demands your shirt offer him your cloak. Sure that bum will probably spend your dollar on booze, but that's on him, and you've still done something positive by trusting another human being, not because you bought them something they need.

[Anonymous No.5073941]

The problem with cynicism, the cheap modern kind, is that it presupposes things and leads to conclusions that aren't really true or mean very little and ultimately pacifies and restricts the people who practice said beliefs.

[Anonymous No.5073951]

>>5073928
Don't offer your trust, you fool. There is this saying here "promises only remain for those who listen to them".
My experience convinced me to consider people as cattle and to not expect anything from them, to be as independant as I could, but still, to be open for something good coming from others. I am still able to love some, but the one I am convinced that they deserve it. Overall, humanity is an amnesic joke. What has value to you also has for a MINORITY. 11 fools will always have the last word if there are only 10 philosophers on the other side.

[Anonymous No.5073962]

>>5073875
>When did you realize that life, and people, are pretty fucking great, and that thinking otherwise is a teenager's mentality?
I bet you are religious. If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit. And I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible. You gotta get together and tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe just to get through the goddamn day? What's that say about your reality?

[Anonymous No.5073966]

>>5073941
>presupposes
keep using that word

[Anonymous No.5073968]

>>5073951
>consider people as cattle
>have the last word

You get what you give. If you are stingy with your love and trust, people are going to act that way towards you.

It's not about not letting yourself get hurt, it's about having the sack to move on with love in your heart and probably get hurt again and again.

[Anonymous No.5073969]

http://www.egs.edu/faculty/slavoj-zizek/articles/cynicism-as-a-form-of-ideology/

http://www.egs.edu/faculty/slavoj-zizek/articles/why-cynics-are-wrong/

Zizek should be taken with a pinch of salt but still pretty interesting reads.

[Anonymous No.5073979]

>>5073962
What makes you think I am religious? I'm not really. I do read the Bible for nuggets such as those I quoted above, but I read more for those philosophical revelations more than because I believe its the truth.

Its what we do here and now that matters, to ourselves and each others.

I guess you're a fedora atheist. I'm sorry to hear that. In my experience rabid atheists usually don't love themselves and thus can't imagine anyone else loving them, either God or another person.

[Anonymous No.5073987]

>>5073979
>philosophical revelations
kek

[Anonymous No.5073988]

Here's another favorite of mine

Matthew 6:27
"And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?"

The surrounding context is good too but I'm too lazy to punch it up.

[Anonymous No.5073991]

>>5073951
You are a broken man. Life is a battle, and you lost.

[Anonymous No.5074002]

>>5073991
You're posting memes on 4chan. You're not exactly winning, either.

[Anonymous No.5074010]

>>5074002
>memes
>4chan

Really now? Sure is summer in here.

[Anonymous No.5074013]

>>5073875
But you are part of people and you are shit.
There, you just proved yourself wrong.

[Anonymous No.5074016]

>>5073991
How is that a failure to you? I am more independant and confident than I have ever been. I learnt a lot from these.

[Anonymous No.5074019]

>>5073875
>life, and people, are pretty fucking great
based on what?

[Anonymous No.5074030]

>>5074019
Based on the vast amount pleasurable things there are to enjoy. The feel of sunshine, taste of a good cup of coffee, watching the stray cats in my courtyard hunt, cracking jokes with strangers in the grocery store, the simple fact that we have eyes and brain that can process books we enjoy reading. Sorry to get all touchy-feely, but if people life is truly that bad then the only option is to destroy yourself.

[Anonymous No.5074034]

>>5074030
>2014
>still thinking simplistically in terms of "good" and "bad"

[Anonymous No.5074036]

I've spent a long time forcing myself to be positive and nice, and I'm begining to realize that people know that it's fake, and it's only making me unhappy. It's one thing to be an emotional wreck who can't see the good things in life, but if being a bit of a cynic is who you are, it's more enjoyable to be yourself.

[Anonymous No.5074048]

>>5073875
>When did you realize that life, and people, are pretty fucking great, and that thinking otherwise is a teenager's mentality?

You're disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. People like you are the worse.

[Anonymous No.5074055]

>>5074034
You're right, I fully admit that coffee quality is a totally subjective and unquantifiable thing.
>>5074036

[Anonymous No.5074067]

>>5074030
what about depressed people? Those things don't matter to them, life is generally not pleasurable for them. Are you saying life is only good for people with a certain brain structure?

[Anonymous No.5074071]

>>5074067
Well he said in the op that if you're ever sad you're a teenager so there you have it.

[Anonymous No.5074095]

>>5074067
Life IS only worth living if you're happy.

[Anonymous No.5074121]

This is something a faggot would write frequenting reddit or its shitty extensions for libtards like Cracked or something

[Anonymous No.5074141]

The world made me miserable so how should I give a fuck about it? I mean I still I enrich my life and shit, but it will always be for me first.

>inb4 objectivist

Fuck that, I still help people, but only to prove my morality to myself, something this selfish world isn't

[Anonymous No.5074208]

>>5074095
i guess that's a reason to be pessimistic

[Anonymous No.5074266]

>>5074030
A brain and eyes that enable us to witness that humans turn everything into shit.

[Anonymous No.5074473]

my IQ would have to lower for that to happen. don't you realize most great authors have been at least somewhat cynical?

[Anonymous No.5074493]

>2014
>still thinking that life is whether shit or great

youre not so far from that teenage mind op.

[Anonymous No.5074516]

>>5073927
He killed himself because you were too pessimistic?

[Anonymous No.5074531]

>misusing the word cynicism

[Anonymous No.5074534]

>>5073927
Also, how did that change your outlook? If anything that should have reinforced your pessimistic viewpoint, as yet more evidence of the vast amount of pain and suffering inn the world

[Anonymous No.5074594]

>>5073928
There's an excellent quote from Nietzsche that I can't find at the moment about being disgusted by paranoid nitwits who constantly look over their shoulders and around every corner.

>>5073875
I just came to the conclusion that living a life of constant fear and/or anger is pointless. Why spend my days making other people miserable and being alone, when I can put on a smile (even if I'm sad) and make others happy? After doing shrooms, I cannot stand by this more. Happiness is the ultimate feeling.

[Anonymous No.5074602]

>>5074594
do you find that you think less than before? there's a lot of things to be upset about.

[Anonymous No.5074618]

>>5074602
Cynicism and pessimism are not agents of change and never have been. On the contrary, they are excuses that allow people to be inactive and lazy. Same thing goes for "thinking". If you limit your mentality to believing humans are selfish and life is miserable and pointless then you've already closed a door to any other line of thought that conflicts or opposes that, which is probably the majority of interesting ideas.

[Anonymous No.5074620]

>>5073875
All value judgements are arbitrary, but I do try to make the enjoyable ones.

[Anonymous No.5074623]

>>5074620
>All value judgements are arbitrary
top kek

[Anonymous No.5074624]

I replaced cynicism with the realisation that cumming inside a Prime Teen Pussy is all there is to life

[Anonymous No.5074628]

>>5073875
>quoting Patton
>to make a philosophical point

Haha kill yourself

[Anonymous No.5074641]

>>5074594
>when I can put on a smile (even if I'm sad) and make others happy?
Why would you?

[Anonymous No.5074643]

>>5074602
Not at all. And why should it be true?

Why does one have to be angry at all the things that are wrong instead of understanding them objectively, without unnecessary and rash emotion, and working to correct them?

Why be cynical when you can be rational?

[Anonymous No.5074649]

>>5074618
yeah, sorry, my train of thought got a bit derailed from cynicism and pessimism and landed at absurdism.

As for the part where you were saying that
>If you limit your mentality to believing humans are selfish and life is miserable and pointless then you've already closed a door to any other line of thought that conflicts or opposes that[...]
I don't think pointlessness (in the sense that there is no moral or metaphysical meaning of the universe and humans) implies being miserable or finding any action futile. But I guess this thread isn't about that.

[Anonymous No.5074650]

>>5074641
Happiness is contagious. :)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97848789

[AnelCrest !m9jxTLhLcw No.5074657]

>>5073875
You don't even know what the term cynicism means, you filthy mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.5074707]

>>5073875
At about 18.

It's cancerous, really.

[Anonymous No.5074715]

>>5074707
But why?

[Anonymous No.5074724]

I was cynical for about a school year.
It was shit.

[Anonymous No.5074731]

>>5073875

What a stupidly childish thing to say.

Absolute cynicism and absolute optimism are equally incorrect, with the sole exception that the former might be considered slightly more accurate. Because an absolutely perfect world and an absolutely imperfect world are both impossible, but the latter is slightly closer to the truth.

Ultimately both are pointless. There is in truth, only facts. The glass is not half empty, nor is it half full. It contains a specific amount of liquid that can be measured.

Other than that, who the hell quotes Patton? The man knew one thing and one thing very well - War. He was a blood knight who practically gloried in distruction, not a philosopher. And i would be genuinely surprised if those around the man who was actually nicknamed 'Ol Blood & Guts' considered him optimistic.

>>5073979

While the person who you are replying to was pretty childish, this is an even worse response.

The bible is nothing more than the scrawling of long dead tribes, and does not deserve remembrance. There are better and more relevant sources of wisdom not based in extinct societies with entirely different moral views than us - who would view the modern world and its ethics with absolute horror.

I like the bit where it orders followers to shave their pubic hair. it always amuses me.

The whole fedora thing is the most childish of all the things youve said though. Its the ultimate in ad hominem fallacies. 'I cannot actually think of an argument, so im going to imply you wear a stupid hat kek kek kek.'

You disgust me.

[Anonymous No.5074750]

>>5074731

[Anonymous No.5074761]

Using Patton as an argument against cynicism

"You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."

Try harder.

[Anonymous No.5074801]

Talking with cynical people isn't anything great. Talking with super positive and new-age bullshit quoting people isn't anything great either. You need to find balance. Look at the universe - everything is in balance. Even our destruction of environment is in balance with everything else - problem is we don't know all the variables and so we assume things are going downhill but it is all just perfect.

Let's say you get cancer. Now that's some shitty luck you think to yourself. But what if you did not get cancer? You don't know. Be glad for your cancer. That's right.

[Anonymous No.5074903]

Cynicism/pessimism and optimism are not two sides to the same coin. Optimism is the natural state for humans, and the reason why anyone does anything. You don't have to have a shit-eating grin all day, but if you truly feel that life is pain and that people are inherently selfish then you have no right doing anything besides killing yourself. To go to work, to enjoy a conversation with anyone, or to enjoy any kind of art is to be optimistic and see the value in at least one thing in your life.

You can believe that life and people are mostly good with a few smatterings of evil, pain and selfishness because then you can still get out of bed and go through your day, dragging the bad things around until they wear away to nothing, or until you become strong enough not to notice them.

If you believe the world is mostly bad with a smattering of good you are saying the good doesn't make up for the bad, and that there is no point in anything, that you should just sit back and remain passive until any good you do see is swallowed in your cynicism.

A body in motion stays in motion; a body at rest stays at rest. Optimism is hope, and hope is action, which becomes progress. Cynicism is futility, and futility begets inaction.

Optimistic people who see the good things in life build cities, invent new things, and having loving families (all of which in turn make life more pleasurable. Cynical people simply become more and more cynical as they age, until they become cranky old misers.

And I'm sure Patton was an optomist. The damn guy led us to victory over the Nazi's. If he had been all "boo fuckin hoo, war is hell, war is man's just exercising his natural state of savagery, life is futile, politics are futile, Nazi's, Commies, Japs, and FDR are all just self-serving pigs like myself and all other humans" guess fuckin what? We'd all be speaking German now.

[Anonymous No.5074908]

>>5074903
>inb4 history fag goes off about Patton or how the USSR would have defeated the Nazi's without us

[Anonymous No.5074935]

>>5074903
nice post. You should be proud of this post.

seriously

[Anonymous No.5074940]

>>5073875
When I realized that happiness is an internal state, and can be controlled. World gets pretty dandy when you realize the stoics were right.

[Anonymous No.5074977]

cynicism allows one to laugh at life's trivialities.

[Anonymous No.5074978]

>>5074903

>actively condemning people whose art you consume everyday

there's a reason every great author has killed themselves or been incredibly introverted

[Anonymous No.5075001]

>>5074903
I do not think it wise to assume that humans are naturally good. Do you not still lock the doors to your house? Do not still look both ways before crossing the street?

Expecting anything from the world, be it good or evil, is foolish, for change is the one constant on this earth.

All humans desire the good, and act on it. Yet their notions of good may be as different as night and day.

The world might be good, but it will not always be good to you. One should have all the hope of an optimist yet take all the precautions of a pessimist.

[Anonymous No.5075040]

>>5073928
>it took me a long to figure out that people act the way you expect them to, i.e., if you act suspicious of your SO, eventually they will internalize that and cheat, if you treat a black man as a criminal for long enough eventually they will get worn down and act that way
Yeah, about that. It's wrong. All of it, completely off base.

[Anonymous No.5075046]

>>5073896
>Cynicism never improved anything or anyone.

Source ? Cynicism is a legit philosophical school.

>It's simply a crutch people use to justify why they aren't happy/successful.

Someone hasn't heard of Diogenes. People like him have voluntarily shed whatever "success" they could had for philosophical reasons.

[Anonymous No.5075051]

>>5074978
depression=/=pessimism
introversion=/=pessimism

This is why people can't stand your 4chan strain of pessimism. You fellows can't seem to break free from binary thought. The world (and personality) is much more complex than you seem to realize.

[Anonymous No.5075075]

>>5074095
That's an idiotic statement. Unhappy people can have very intense and interesting experiences, and pursue a lot of valuable goals. You're also assuming that people can be said "happy" in general, without care for the details.

I suggest you step your intellectual game up a notch and start thinking more precisely.

[Anonymous No.5075094]

>>5074643
this. I used to get really angry at the way the world was. Living in a society polluted with fast food, reality tv, corrupt media and government etc. pissed me off and I spent a lot of energy being angry at the world for being the way it is. I still think those things are wrong and awful, but I also find them kind of funny. Like, this is where thousands of years of evolution have led up to. It's fucking absurd. I do what I can to counter these things, but I don't waste my energy being mad anymore

[Anonymous No.5075110]

>implying I ever did

[Anonymous No.5075112]

>>5075051

what is depression if not a disappointment with the world? you don't necessarily have to hate people to be depressed but you're still going to be cynical about life in general.

even if they aren't synonymous, depressed people still show the traits that the person I quoted despises (inactivity and hopelessness), so my point stands

[Anonymous No.5075162]

>>5074624
real

[Anonymous No.5075179]

>>5075112
You don't sound like you have a firm understanding of what actual clinical depression is. Depression isn't sadness, disappointment, anger, or pessimism, it's a state of dysphoria where people are incapable of experiencing satisfaction or joy, or often any emotions at all, and is the result of chemical imbalances in the brain.

[Anonymous No.5075218]

>>5074903
>Optimism is the natural state for humans

That is backed up by evidence, to some extent
>and the reason why anyone does anything

That's leaping to conclusion. You're forgetting the importance of habit, the fact that we are able to perform plenty of tasks without thinking about wether they're worth the effort, and the fact that we evolved for surviving hardship, which means our muscles and nervous system have ways to cope with stress and pain without assuming an optimistic point of view (although chemical-induced optimism is one of those ways).

>but if you truly feel that life is pain and that people are inherently selfish then you have no right doing anything besides killing yourself

Not necessarily. A lot of Christianity is grounded on this idea. It didn't prevent it from being a motivator for action. Selfishness in itself doesn't say anything about what we should (and very little about what we are).

>If you believe the world is mostly bad with a smattering of good you are saying the good doesn't make up for the bad, and that there is no point in anything, [that] you should just sit back and remain passive until any good you do see is swallowed in your cynicism.


Your reasoning is a bit too schematic here (I'm assuming the word between brackets is a typo, else the sentence doesn't make much sense). It's not a "good outweight the bad" argument, particularly when it comes to ethics, where there can be a justification for evil and where evil can be seen as a call to action. And "good outweights the bad" doesn't mean that there is no point in anything. You can find value in bad things, and strive among them (or even for them). If life were about having it sweet most of the time there would be little need for ethics and even less for comfort.

>A body in motion stays in motion; a body at rest stays at rest.

That's inaccurate, plus the implication that being at rest>being in motion is debatable, all the more so than those are relative notions.

> Optimism is hope, and hope is action, which becomes progress.

That's a core tenet of contemporary morality, but it isn't in itself more valuable than older moralities, which were often pessimistic (although not cynical) an didn't think of progress as a good thing. Yet the people living by those moralities did a lot. You could argue than the modern scientized world of today has done more, but I'm not sure than science rests on the optimistic assumption that you should seek progress. It's more about people doing what they like, and then equating progress in their field with absolute progress.

>Optimistic people who see the good things in life build cities, invent new things, and having loving families

So do pessimistic peoples (more often than not). I know that pessimism is not cynism, but your argument seems to have derived from the topic and be concerned with pessisim (in that particular part of your post). A Cynic can very well see the good in life (Diogenes, for one, certainly did).

[Anonymous No.5075258]

>>5073875
>either pessimism or optimism

>not the clear, smooth neutrality of realistic nihilism

[Anonymous No.5075319]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCEC52WOB4

[Anonymous No.5075346]

>>5075179
>You don't sound like you have a firm understanding of what actual clinical depression is

i've been diagnosed with it, so I think I do.

calling it a chemical imbalance is an easy way to rationalize someone's not being satisfied with the world. if you can't fathom something then simply diagnose it.

[Anonymous No.5075364]

>>5075346
People get diagnoses with cancer, that doesn't mean they understand it, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.5075371]

>>5075364
*diagnosed

[Anonymous No.5077030]

>>5073875

OP, just posting by to say you're good. This is exactly what I believe too.

>posting Patton
>10/10 post

Source of that poem?

[Anonymous No.5077032]

>>5073881

Fact: people who "see the world as shitty" aren't the ones who do anything to make it better. Saying it's shitty is generally their reason not to even try.

People who see good in the world strive to make it even better because it's worth it.

People who see only the bad prefer to give up entirely and become selfish.

[Anonymous No.5077047]

THE FACT THAT WE ARE ABLE TO FEEL SAD MEANS THE WORLD IS INHERENTLY SAD

PESSIMISM/CYNICISM IS SIMPLY THE REACTION TO SADNESS

[Anonymous No.5077054]

>>5077047
The fact we can feel gassy means the world is inherently flatulent

[Anonymous No.5077056]

>>5077047

No, pessimism and cynicism are choices you make, like a faggot, when you give up on trying.

My reaction to sadness is manning the fuck up and giving everything a good try. My reaction to sadness is an encouraging smile.

I work with young people, and when you grow up, you realise that they look towards you to see if we're OK or not. That's when you act strong because they need you.

Stop being a puny faggot.

[Anonymous No.5077069]

>>5077054
OH INDEED
>>5077056
YOU MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING PESSIMISM AND CYNICISM IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE
OPTIMISM IS JUST AS FAULTED AS PESSIMISM

GIVING EVERYTHING A GOOD TRY DOES NOT ENTAIL A REACTION TO SADNESS

AN ENCOURAGING SMILE CAN BE PERFORMED BY A CYNIST OR A PESSIMIST

THE SOONER YOUNG PEOPLE REALISE OLDER PEOPLE ARE JUST AS SAD AS THEM THE BETTER - THAT IS WHEN TRUE LIVING BEGINS

[Anonymous No.5077070]

>>5073969
Slavoj gets it.

[Anonymous No.5077071]

when I was around 21. seriously faggots listen to op, life is good

[Anonymous No.5077073]

>>5077071
>life is good
FOR YOU

[Anonymous No.5077081]

>>5077069

>YOU MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING PESSIMISM AND CYNICISM IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE
OPTIMISM IS JUST AS FAULTED AS PESSIMISM

Faulted, you mean subjective, and that's the point. It's a choice. Nobody's trying to be a realist because that does nothing. Everyone's a realist, but then you have to choose whether this is good or bad.

>THE SOONER YOUNG PEOPLE REALISE OLDER PEOPLE ARE JUST AS SAD AS THEM THE BETTER - THAT IS WHEN TRUE LIVING BEGINS

Sad people don't live long. Truly sad people kill themselves. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you stop capsing our asses away.

[Anonymous No.5077085]

>tfw too patrician to subscribe to the pessimist/optimist false dichotomy.

[Anonymous No.5077086]

>>5077081
IF BY CHOICE DO YOU MEAN SUPPRESSING YOUR SADNESS AND NEVER GIVING YOURSELF THE CHANCE TO FEEL IT?

EVERYONE IS SAD

[Anonymous No.5077090]

>>5077086
>he listens to REI.

[Anonymous No.5077095]

>>5077081
>Sad people don't live long. Truly sad people kill themselves.
This is false, suicide is not some kind of logical conclusion to sadness.

[Anonymous No.5077097]

>>5077090
WHO

[Anonymous No.5077103]

>>5077097
>U-uh I-I'll pretend not to know who he is, th-that'll show him.
Use lower case more often; consummate faggot.

[Anonymous No.5077105]

>>5077103
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

[Anonymous No.5077108]

>>5077105
You are writing in all upper case like the tripfag REI. Stop it.

[Anonymous No.5077113]

>>5077108
WELL I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE TRIPFAG REI

I CANNOT STOP BECAUSE MY KEYBOARD IS BROKEN - THAT IS THE REASON I AM IN CAPS-LOCK

[Anonymous No.5077117]

>>5077113
S-sorry ;_;

[Anonymous No.5077120]

>>5077117
ALL FORGIVEN

hehe

[Anonymous No.5077127]

>>5077120
It seems that my standing has been lowered a tad. I feel that I may never recover from such trickery.

[Anonymous No.5077136]

>>5077127
YOU SHANT

[Anonymous No.5077141]

>>5073875
The fact you think cynicism is synonymous with pessimism is fairly worry OP.

Can you tell us how you grew out of cynicism as opposed to pessimism?

[Anonymous No.5077280]

>>5077085
This.

>arguing over arbitrary value judgements regarding the whole wide everything (without anything to compare it with, making the whole ordeal even more absurd)

Shirach D'yazar

[Anonymous No.5077365]

I'm thankful that /lit/ recommended me some stoicism a while ago. Everything else probably comes down to changing my bad habits, getting some more exercise and maybe meditating for at least 10 minutes a day.

Unfortunately, one of my bad habits is going on 4chan, so I'll eventually have to stop coming here and leave you people with faggots like OP.

[Anonymous No.5077389]

>>5073896
Absolute amen. Not often you see people who express this sort of stuff honestly on 4chan

.>>5073875

Late teens. After that I genuinely became happier the more mature I became.

[Anonymous No.5077401]

>>5073875
>he doesn't know what cynicism is

[Anonymous No.5077406]

>>5073875
That's a pretty cynical view of cynicism...

This reminds me of my high school English teacher who liked to talk about how shitty and insincere cynical people are

[Anonymous No.5077407]

>>5077401
a bum is not necessary a cynic

[Anonymous No.5077429]

>>5077407
Correct.

[Anonymous No.5077443]

My bum is on the cynic

[Anonymous No.5077615]

>>5077401
>Implying they aren't his bitches.

[Reginald hap the twice great t(...) No.5077640]

My aren't we all so happy campers, ey. I once sung 'happiness is physical, it's all i know'. It's still considered the greatest line in the history of time, seriously it is. They misunderstand my misunderstanding, please kill me noggin before i destroy the sheer fabric of all. Ok, ok, noone thinks it's a great line or song. But i do, it gives me wood. No i lie, it is eternal and immaculate, yess my precious. Psychology and theories is le wanq, yes? Xxx bram brammidilia

[Anonymous No.5077647]

>>5077401
>that pic

Nothing changes.

[Anonymous No.5077712]

>>5077647
But every city Diogenes ended up liked him

[Anonymous No.5077754]

>>5073875
Real talk

and bitches here will spout their overcomplicated philosophy bullshit they read somewhere
but it doesn't change the fact that people who know how to be happy/content and keep striving will always generally do better than cynical, angry, mopy faggots who think they're the only people in history who have noticed all the shit in the world

weak little shits
I avoid them like the plague

[Anonymous No.5077831]

>>5077754
>overcomplicated philosophy bullshit
top kek
>but it doesn't change the fact that people who know how to be happy/content and keep striving will always generally do better than cynical, angry, mopy faggots
"do better" by the standards inherent to their naive world view, yes. that's like saying a boxer does better than a monk because the monk isn't even winning shiny belts.

[Anonymous No.5077838]

>>5077831
Happiness is the only measure of success.

[Anonymous No.5077848]

>>5077838
the thing most people consider happiness is a house built on sand that will be taken away from them long before they die, if they ever achieve it at all. it's a temporary anomaly based on delusion that doesn't cover the costs. pessimists know what's up so they set up a life that doesn't aim to achieve happiness but just minimise suffering.

[Anonymous No.5077855]

>>5077848
That is the saddest, most ignorant post I've ever read here.

Sorry you're unhappy but seriously, go for a hike or something.

[Anonymous No.5077858]

>>5077085
This.

[Anonymous No.5079320]

>>5077855

>Thinking that Buddhism is the saddest most ignorant religion

>dismissing the Epicurean and Cynicism schools of philosophy with a wave of your hand.

>Still having the gall to call others ignorant

[Anonymous No.5079333]

>>5077855
please explain how it is ignorant.

[Anonymous No.5079355]

>>5075075
>Unhappy people can have very intense and interesting experiences blah blah blah
And they won't give a shit because they feel miserable. Was it seriously so hard to understand?

[Anonymous No.5079365]

>>5079355
>thinks only cute puppy cuddly experiences can be worthwhile

You have no right to talk down to people, silly.

[Anonymous No.5079366]

>>5073875
>When did you grow out of cynicism/pessimism /lit/?
I grew out of cynicism when I realized that none of the things that I wanted would make me happy. I don't think happiness is something that just happens, I think it's a harvest.

[Anonymous No.5079372]

>>5079366
you stopped being cynical by being disillusioned? are you sure it works this way?

[Anonymous No.5079374]

>>5079365
There is literally no way you picked that up from my post. Not even if you were clinically retarded. Maybe if you can't read, but then how would you be able to reply?

[Anonymous No.5079380]

>>5079355
Actually they will give a shit. You seem to believe that not thoroughly happy=utterly depressed. That's retarded.
>>5079372
>tfw you get out of cynicism by becoming blasé

Actually it's not a feeling.

[Anonymous No.5079384]

>>5079372
Are you using it in the pejorative sense?

[Anonymous No.5079400]

>>5079380
>You seem to believe that not thoroughly happy=utterly depressed
>>5074067
>what about depressed people?
How does 4chan work?

[Anonymous No.5079403]

>>5079374
You're literally saying unhappy people can't have experiences they care about. That's silly as heck.

[Anonymous No.5079412]

>>5079400
It doesn't. This website was supposed to be an humanitarian utopia.

[Anonymous No.5081316]

you have to aknowledge that there is a problem before you can begin to try and see a way to solve it, putting your head in a whole and refusing to see that all is not well is how you stagnate, realizing and accepting that the world is a shitty place (for the most part) is the first step towards making it better, after that its learning about the root causes of the problems and seeking solutions to them, not the symptoms mind you, but the root causes, and you have to be willing to separate your own ego from the process, just because you identify with a certain system, dogma or practice doesn´t mean that a propose to change said system, dogma or practice is a direct attack against you, be objective, fight all those knee jerk reactions that will tell you to refuse the propositions immediatel, without even considering.
I love my country, and it is because I love it so much that I will never stop critizicing it, because it can never be perfect, there will always be room for improvement, and we should always be prepared to change things when it is shown that there is a better way to do things.

[Anonymous No.5081331]

>>5081316
I like how you started. Proposing that the world is shit, and that accepting it is the sane thing to do. In the end, however, it ended just being another pinko apology. Solving the root causes of the problem? We would need to change the human brain itself for acieving that.

[Anonymous No.5081344]

>>5081331
>We would need to change the human brain itself for acieving that.
We've been working on that for thousands of years and getting better at it all the time.

[Anonymous No.5081360]

>>5081344
Indeed. However, it will not be through traditional philosophy or religion that the next violent change will come. The new society to come will derive from neuroscience/Biology.

[Anonymous No.5081368]

>>5081360
I get the nagging feeling that it will be accomplished not by giving new abilities to the brain, but by removing thngs that are considered unnecessary or harmful. People, in their struggle to surpass humanity, will turn themselves into monsters without even realizing it.

[Anonymous No.5081451]

>>5081360
Yes, probably. Could be disastrous, but at least we live in interesting times.

[Anonymous No.5081524]

>>5081331
>>5081344
>>5081360
>>5081368
>>5081451
the myth that the world is a shitty place because it is filled with shitty people who are shitty by nature is nothing more than a misleading trick to keep people placated, think for a moment, who is benefited the most because of the spread of this myth? the status quo, if the people believe that the social issues that plague us today are caused by ¨bad¨ indivuduals instead of a fudamentally flawed system then they will just want to punish those individuals, instead of questioning the system.
There is no human nature, only human behaviour, which is shaped both by genetics as well as copied from others, the environment interacts with the genes, turning some of them on or off, on everything, from our digestive system to our neurological system, saying that all people are the same then is ludicrous, there are countless variations of environment which have a great influence on us and therefore our behaviour, if you lived 2000 years ago in Rome you´d think it was human nature to love and copulate with men, and only see women as a necessary tool to procreate, everybody around thought so as well.
If you take a chinese baby to France and have him be raised by french surrogates, around other french people, he will grown up to talk and behave like any other Frenchman, and would be appaled by some of the behaviour that many chinese people exibit which he would consider absolutely normal had he been raised there instead.
there is no need for abstract brain manipulation to change the many negative traits that are so undesirable, just a better environment and competent caregivers, good education and nutrition, and the lack of violence which is a trademark of our society.

[Anonymous No.5081581]

I think some people naturally have more melancholic temperaments (and I'm NOT talking about the four humors when I say that) than others and are just more prone to cynicism.
I can't say I'm one of those people. I'm usually feeling pretty good about things.

You might find it interesting to read Chapters IV,V,VI,and VII (about "healthy-mindedness" and "the sick soul") in William James' "The Varieties of Religious Experience." He kind of talks about that there.
People are all different and you can't expect everyone to see the world in the same way, whether that's through a cheerful rosy lens or a dark grimy one with a pedophiles cum stains all over it

[Anonymous No.5081591]

>>5081524
>not realising that existence itself is inherently flawed and inescapable

[Anonymous No.5081606]

>>5081591
>taking Schopenhauer's whiny bullshit seriously

[Anonymous No.5081627]

>>5077030
solitude by ella wheller wilcox

[Anonymous No.5081646]

>>5077855
>it makes me feel bad so it is wrong

[Anonymous No.5081682]

>>5081524
No. I don't think so.
To start, the world per se isn't a shitty place. However, the logical figures that we create as human beings have reached this conclusion many times. This conclusion isn't the fruit of manipulation, as you paint it. To placate people isn't necessary to make them sad, on the contrary. Do you know why a socialist revolution was never a thing on the Western world? The bettering of the living conditions of the working class. Also, do you seriously believe that there has been this state-of-the-art manipulation of thought since the times of Dyogenes?
Secondly, educating everybody to have a flawless society is an utopia. The best example I can think is the Soviet Union. True, it was a better society than the actual Russian, but it wasn't flawless. Changing every flaw in the human mind is far more complex than nutrition, education, education. It's the best we may have at the moment, but it isn't the way to go. It's stagnation. Not everybody shares the same traits, each one makes the world what he wants it to be. And before you present the argument of Japan, seriously, do you believe a society with the highest suicide rates in the world and a laughable birthrate is a paradise on Earth?

[Anonymous No.5081819]

>>5077389
People don't even express this stuff in real life. But that's okay because I'll take control and get my position

[Anonymous No.5081836]

>>5073875
I don't think life is worth anything, but I still enjoy being alive and most people in the world have it worse than me. I don't see optimism or pessimism as describing my general outlook on life, I can only use that to describe how I see specific things developing.

I do however maintain that non-existence has never hurt anyone, and therefore I subscribe to anti-natalism.

[Anonymous No.5081848]

>>5073896
"what's the point" attitudes directly improve your own life because you don't waste time and effort worrying about other people's business and just carve out a little niche for yourself to hide from the perpetual shitstorms of life.

[Anonymous No.5081872]

>>5081524
So, what you are saying is that it is not human nature to make the world a shitty place, but that humans have chosen time and time again to do it, when they could have behaved differently? I think so as well.

>mfw I realized that it's possible to do what you think is right, and mostpeople just don't give a damn because they don't have any reason to, because they don't give a damn about doing the right thing because they don't value their own sense of morality above the advantages that breaking with them promise
>mfw they just go looking for excuses to justify their behavior to themselves, eventhough they know that they don't believe what they are doing is right
>mfw it keeps happening

[Anonymous No.5081927]

>>5073875
>When did you realize that life, and people, are pretty fucking great, and that thinking otherwise is a teenager's mentality?
mfw I am a teenager
mfw I stopped being cynical at age 10.

[Anonymous No.5081933]

>>5081872
>yfw your notion of right is arbitrary

[Anonymous No.5081938]

>>5081927
>poor kid doesn't now about post-education cynicism 2.0

[Anonymous No.5081957]

Cynicism and optimism both have their place. Everything is good in moderation. A healthy balance of both creates a more reasonable outlook than simply diving face-first into one.

[Anonymous No.5081970]

>>5081933
>mfw you're missing the point entirely

Of course there are problems that can come with living according to ones beliefs as well. My point is that most people do have beliefs that would benefit society and make the world a less shitty place if they lived by them, and that apathy and hypocrisy, cynical bystanders and opportunists are far bigger factors in making the world what it is than people who do what they believe is right.

[Anonymous No.5082124]

>>5081957
This boring answer is it. In warfare, optimism swings the sword and cynicism stays the sword. In moments of self-defence, optimism is needed. In moments of starting a needless conflict, cynicism is needed.

Optimism pushes you into actions believing something good will come out of it. But not all actions have positive results.

[Anonymous No.5082145]

>>5081970
>it might be arbitrary but it makes the world objectively better
I think you missed my point instead.

[Anonymous No.5082220]

>>5082145
I'm not talking about a world that's objectively better, idiot. i'm talking about a world that would be agreed upon, by the majority of people, to be a better one.

[Anonymous No.5082227]

>this whole thread
Jesus, /lit/ is filled with edgy teens. OP pay no attention to these fags.

[Anonymous No.5082914]

>>5082227
edgy edgy fuck you

[Anonymous No.5083984]

>>5082914
you niggas cant handle the truth. Cynics lose this round.

[Anonymous No.5084175]

>>5073969
>Days before the election, Noam Chomsky told progressives that they should vote for Obama, but without illusions. I fully share Chomsky’s doubts about the real consequences of Obama’s victory: From a pragmatic-realistic perspective, it is quite possible that Obama will just do some minor face-lifting improvements, turning out to be “Bush with a human face.” He will pursue the same basic politics in a more attractive mode and thus effectively even strengthen U.S. hegemony, which has been severely damaged by the catastrophe of the Bush years.
Haha wow Slavoj totally called that because that is literally exactly what is happening this article might be worth reading aft-

>There is nonetheless something deeply wrong with this reaction
ok

>All the skepticism displayed behind closed doors even by many worried progressives (what if, in the privacy of the voting booth, publicly disavowed racism reemerges?) was proven wrong.
err

>But regardless of whether we succeed or fail, Obama’s victory will remain a sign of hope in our otherwise dark times, a sign that the last word does not belong to “realist” cynics, be they from the Left or the Right.

No. The Hope (tm) and jubilation cannot be considered "a sign of hope in dark times' when they only served to rally the left around Obama as he, as was clear to the cynic in 2008 and evidently to Zizek as well, continued Bush's most horrid practices and normalized a decade of decay of the rule of law.

[Anonymous No.5084204]

>>5074707
>>5074724

you people talk about cynicism as if it was a fad or a phase you went through like dying your hair and wearing black clothes.

it's fine if you don't have any experience with overwhelming cynicism-- you don't have to contribute your two cents to every. single. thread.

[Anonymous No.5084279]

> cynical view of society

> optimistic view of humanity

Checkmate atheists

[Anonymous No.5084283]

>Cynicism
>Pessimism
>Liberalism
what other words can we add to the list of terms retards don't know the meaning of but still insist on using incorrectly every chance they get

[Feminister !!F9QVQ82MjmE No.5084288]

>>5084283
Feminism

[Anonymous No.5084297]

>>5084283
>Pluralism
>Dualism
>Individualism
>Reductionism
>Patriotism
>Jingoism
>Nihilism
>Chrism
>Schism
>Prism

[Anonymous No.5084719]

>>5082220
Everything is subjective, even when we try our hardest to be objective, what you believe is right, is wrong to someone else and they will fight you over it. But there is always compromise, so maybe your "utopian" world isn't as impossible as I thought.

[Anonymous No.5084753]

>>5084283
>>5084297

Communism
Fascism
Marxism
edgy

[Anonymous No.5084760]

>>5084283
Colloquial usage isn't incorrect, it's just casual.

[Anonymous No.5084850]

I say for myself that i'm a realist (not that i know what that's supposed to mean). Being either optimist or pessimist seems childish, and so do most extremes in life.
How can i say i'm an optimist there is an endless amount of bullshit going on in the world?
How can i say i'm a pessimist when i live in my parent's nice house in the suburbs, smoke weed and make music all day?

[Anonymous No.5084856]

>>5084850
I'd like to add that i think everyone (including me) should accept that we are very ignorant of our world and should never be content with our (amount of) knowledge of it.