/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4688260]

Is there any argument agains the Forms?

[« 零 » !Ry9.kM3RY. No.4688266]

ACCORDING TO PLATON, THE WORLD WIDE WEB CAUSES THE INTERNET.

[Anonymous No.4688277]

>>4688260
Nope it has since been scientifically proven 100% accurate by science

[Clerisy !!JAFrZ3sTBcQ No.4688279]

quine's 2 dogmas of empiricism

[Anonymous No.4688285]

>>4688260
>any argument against forms
The Good Cat Table

YOUR MOVE, CREEP.

[Anonymous No.4688317]

>>4688277
pls b troll
otherwise do some actual physics education other than interpreting wiki articles

[Anonymous No.4688321]

>>4688266
it does.

[« 零 » !Ry9.kM3RY. No.4688428]

>>4688321

YES, I KNOW.

THE VISION OF THE WORLD WIDE WEB IS WHAT IMPELLED THE CREATION OF A GLOBAL INTERCONNECTED NETWORK.

[Anonymous No.4688441]

>>4688260
Wouldn't any argument against forms be an argument for forms?

[Anonymous No.4688557]

>>4688260
I would argue that platonic forms don't deserve any special place in the hierarchy of being, if there is in fact such hierachy. Even if the form of table had all the common attributes between all tables, it still couldn't refer to all of them at the same time.

[Anonymous No.4691272]

Read Aristotle.

[Anonymous No.4691278]

>>4691272


aris philo D so big they call it the 'third man'.

[Anonymous No.4692823]

>>4688260

yes.

but they're all reconfigurations and pleas for reconfigurations.

[Anonymous No.4692852]

>>4688279
too bad that essay is wholly antiqued.

[Anonymous No.4692866]

Forms have no explanatory power and no empirical evidence. Apply Hitchens' razor.

[Anonymous No.4692890]

>>4692866
only uneducated retards appeal to empirical evidence when it comes to abstract objects.

>Hitchens' razor
is that even a thing?

[Anonymous No.4692894]

>>4692890
⇒doesn't know Hitchens' razor
⇒calls others uneducated

lol @ the irony

[Anonymous No.4692902]

Forms come from perceptions and thus don't exist in any meaningful sense.

For example, isn't it strange that your ideal form of the "perfect" horse just happens to be the averaging of all the positive features you traditionally associate with a horse? Why doesn't the ideal deviate from averages: a horse with wings, or with teeth as sharp as razors? You've, more or less, seen a number horses, come up with an idea for what their ideal should be, and asserted that the ideal came first.

In the same vein, if you accept that forms exist, it's strange how limited forms are in how they're revealed. What of newly discovered animals over history, like bacterium and the platypus: why were none of these forms revealed to us in any meaningful way until we had actually seen one? We would see much more of the reverse if forms were real: a form revealed to us without a mean of empirical interpretation until what it was revealing was shown to us objectively. But that doesn't really happen much, now, does it?

It seems clear from the above that forms follow from reality, not the reverse.

[Anonymous No.4692913]

>>4692894
So it's Occam's razor with more "I'm a prick, btw"

[Anonymous No.4692916]

The supporters of "forms" are probably the same retards who see nothing wrong with Java's shitty implementation of OOP.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4692919]

>>4692866
m8 you can't apply pop-philosophy to philosophy. Hitchen's razor is a meme m8.
If only Plato wasn't such an objectifying FOOL.

THATNESS, FUCKING THATNESS

[Anonymous No.4692922]

>>4692913
But that's wrong, you fucking retard. Why do I as a scientist need to explain philosophy to you, Mr self-proclaimed philosotard?

Occam's razor is a principle of parsimony.
Hitchens' razor is an application of modus tollens.

[Anonymous No.4692934]

>>4692919
I'm applying SCIENCE and LOGIC.

[Anonymous No.4692965]

Aristotle just said they were like just meaningless mumblings of a person humming to them self because they have nothing to do with the way we speak and appropriate (understand) the world. So much for Plato's forms.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4692966]

>>4692934
But the principles that science is founded on, the leaps that science takes in its inception, forego the capacity to evaluate abstract concepts. In one leap it crossed the bridge away from being able to comment on this, so it just yells from afar, but its noise makes no difference.

[Anonymous No.4692986]

>>4692966
Your post is devoid of content. Even cleverbot can say something more meaningful.

[Anonymous No.4693004]

>>4692986
So are you gonna prove there's no Thor or not?

[Anonymous No.4693011]

>>4692966

Why haven't you accepted the teaching of our lord and savior Aristotle?

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693018]

>>4692986
How many of these vague responses am I gonna get today from STEMtards.

Back in your box

[Anonymous No.4693021]

>>4692986

[Anonymous No.4693027]

>>4692986
Don't blame him that you can't read. He's saying science can only speak of what can be measured, so it must remain silent of abstract concepts. Unless the scientist want to practice philosophy he has to stick with interpreting data from what can be meassured.

[Anonymous No.4693031]

>>4693004

[Anonymous No.4693042]

>>4693027
And if you apply his razor to his sex life, the fact that he's never seen another man's jizz in his wife's twat is enough to prove to him that her and the pool boy are just joking about their affairs.

[Anonymous No.4693045]

>>4693031
Well I do believe in Odin. Stay ignorant and bigoted, universe dweeb

[Anonymous No.4693052]

>>4693018
It isn't my fault you are too unintelligent to understand science and logic.

[Anonymous No.4693060]

>>4693052
>you
>understanding logic
>implying logic and science can't exist independently of each other

[Anonymous No.4693061]

>>4693042
I can guess what you're trying to say but that analogy does not demonstrate it.

[Anonymous No.4693065]

>>4693042
>implying he wouldn't enjoy cuckolding

[Anonymous No.4693069]

>>4693061
Do you have any evidence that I'm masturbating right now?

[Anonymous No.4693078]

>>4693065
Cuckolding is the act of banging the other dude's woman, the guy whose wife it is is the cuckolded.

[Anonymous No.4693083]

>>4693027
How fucking dumb are you? Did you fail all your science classes? Science is all about abstract concepts. The goal of science is to explain observations. This is done by designing abstract models in order to gain testable predictions. Sorry for bursting your bubble, philosotard, but quantum physics is much more abstract than your shallow kindergarten tier "muh forms" garbage.

[Anonymous No.4693093]

>>4693060
I know more about logic than you.

[Anonymous No.4693095]

>>4693069
Fuck you, you piece of shit. I bet I have had stronger orgasms than you can ever imagine. Just absolutely amazing cums, with tremendous bursts of pleasurable feeling. I am glad that delicious pleasure is reserved for those of us who have the balls to do what we want to do, with none for scared pussies like you. You have to settle for your tiny little "ah" dribble of cum, when I am fucking spunking buckets in ecstasy like a real man. You're a tiny dicked shrimp and your dick has never felt like mine. Big, hard, and rippling with deadly joy.

[Anonymous No.4693101]

>>4693069
No but I probably wouldn't make a claim about it one way or the other. My choices are "yes" and "no" and even if I guessed right it would be chance, not because I actually knew.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693110]

>>4693083
Science, even abstract and theoretical physics rests on materialist and physicalist notions about the universe. It requires the notions that 1) the universe has rules and 2) that humans are able to perceive them. So please don't believe in the 'objectivity' of science if you aren't able to make a leap of faith to get to the position to 'explain observations.'

This is completely different from the abstractions in Plato's thought, or theological thought for example.

It's ok tho - you know best wiki-scholar.

[Anonymous No.4693112]

>>4693069
Until observed, you are in superposition. According to quantum mechanics there's a 50% chance of catching you masturbating.

[Anonymous No.4693120]

>>4693110
Are you denying reality? Are you suffering from a disorder of the psychotic spectrum? What the fuck is wrong with you to deny the laws of nature?

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693126]

>>4693112
This is not what the quantum superposition means.

[Anonymous No.4693130]

>>4693126
Explain what it means.

[Anonymous No.4693133]

ITT: a demonstration on how to fall for the bait of the degenerate /sci/ troll.

[Anonymous No.4693139]

>>4693093
Probly not, you're probly some reddit dipshit whose knowledge of logic includes what you learned about the "strawman argument" on wikipedia while sticking a dildo up your ass and licking a picture of Richard Dawkins

>>4693101
Same goes for gods, the multiverse, reincarnation, Schrodinger's cat, etc. in my opinion
But, I also have a strong belief in willpower. I think if one person said that cat was dead, and another said it was alive, a guy with a strong will and belief would be able make the universe give him the outcome he wanted.
ATMAN = BRAHMAN and all that

[Anonymous No.4693140]

>>4693126
Do you even Schrodinger's cat? The cat is dead and alive at the same time, dude.

See here for a rather technical explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1YzFLy44ZM

[Anonymous No.4693146]

>>4693120
Do you have any proof this isn't just a dream, man?

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693147]

>>4693120
You seem to have missed the point. I'm questioning that there are even laws of nature, and if there are then I'm questioning our ability to perceive them. To begin scientific thinking you have to by pass those questions, which therefore means that science rests on ASSUMPTION. Whether or not that assumption works (to the degree that it is now) is not enough to prove the assumption correct. I respect and acknowledge science as a field with limits, and a field that is bound up in capitalist ideology.

It's ok mate, if you can't follow me email [e-mail] and I'll answer all your questions.

[Anonymous No.4693155]

>>4693139
⇒ad hominem
lel, learn some formal logic

⇒in my opinion
Science doesn't give a shit about your opinion. Science is about facts, not opinions.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693161]

>>4693139
Interesting concept on willpower deciding the way in which the wave function collapses into one observable universe. Which Hindu scripture are you getting that from. I'm genuinely interested, please elaborate.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693170]

>>4693155
>Science is about facts, not opinions.


I hate the term but this just screams r/atheism in every sense. What a shallow understanding of science and philosophy.

Go to bed m8

[Anonymous No.4693180]

>>4693021

>Argues that the concept of forms is not beautiful
>Seeks beauty in real life
>Rejects the empirical or making an actionable opinion and admits his ignorance

Cleverbot confirmed for Zen Buddhist.

[Anonymous No.4693181]

>>4693146
Yes, I do. But your puny mind wouldn't understand.

>>4693147
I ain't gonna give you my email. What you posted is insane and retarded. If you deny the laws of nature, you are delusional. Get psychiatric treatment.

[Anonymous No.4693188]

>>4693161
Do you seriously consider ancient hindu mysticism to be a reliable source on quantum physics? Fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.4693196]

>>4693147

>philosopfag: "We can't know anything so therefore why try?"
>"Science: Let's assume we can and see what follows."

I wonder which one eventually led to the creation of the personal computer, allowing for you to share your faulty opinions?

[Anonymous No.4693205]

>>4693170
In fact r/atheism would be a better place for you than for me. It is a place where uneducated dropouts like you can post contentless verbal diarrhea all day long to make themselves feel pseudo-intellectual. I prefer the intellectualism of science and logic instead. Something YOU will never understand.

[Anonymous No.4693208]

>>4693161

It's time to stop posting.

[Anonymous No.4693211]

>>4693147
The scientific method works irregardless of your creationist tier shit flinging. Deal with it, philosotard.

[Anonymous No.4693223]

>>4693196
>I wonder which one eventually led to the creation of the personal computer
CS uses logic, logic comes from philosophy.
Checkmate scientists!
philosophers: 1
scientists: 0

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693230]

>>4693188
Schrodinger built his entire worldview on vedantic scripture and he was the pioneering scientist behind quantum physics.
I suppose stemfags completely ignore history when it comes to their subject, which is a shame, because they would see it is an endless procession of failure.

Read Schrodinger's 'My view of the world.' Dear lord this thread...

>>4693181
>If you deny the laws of nature, you are delusional.

Isn't the process of science to completely examine their very existence. As I said, I do not deny them, I just know that science relies on the assumption that they exist. Stop projecting the hegemonic grasp that science has over you.

[Anonymous No.4693232]

>>4693223
Logic is a field of math. Ever since it has been formalized by mathematicians in the 19th century, all research in logic is done by people who studied math. Philosophers can't into logic. Within a philosophy curriculum, the (already massively dumbed down [and I mean dumbed down on below CS level]) logic class is the class most philosophy students fail hard.

[Anonymous No.4693240]

>>4693161
It's not Hindu scripture, mane. It's me scripture.
Multiverse theory, semi-free will, but I do advocate science and even scientism, to a degree.
I have a strong belief in belief, and knowledge. The id.
I wasn't prepared to explain my beliefs today because I've only just gotten back into talking about this shit after spending the past 3 months hanging out with wiggers and getting drunk.

Basically, I'm somewhat deistic. I see the universe as a god, but not as the God. It exists, some people worship it.
I also see gods as just people, animals and beings who inhabit other universes. Just like people, animals and beings in this universe, you can impose your will over them if you know what you're doing.

Apply this to our universe, treat our universe as just another animal, and I feel you can bend and break its will to your liking, as long as you know what you're doing.
See those dudes who walk across the hot coals and don't get burned, and the buddhist monks who sit naked and wet at the top of mountains in winter and don't get cold, the placebo affect. All that jazz.
I'll be around /lit/ for a few more days and when I'm feeling more able to explain myself I'll do a better job, I'm still fighting my urge to call women "thots".

[Anonymous No.4693250]

>>4693232
>Ever since it has been formalized by mathematicians in the 19th century

It was a highly philosophical endeavor spearheaded by logicians in both philosophy and math departments.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693252]

>>4693211
Works as a method of measurement. Wow, that's great.
Science is a measuring stick that fuels the capitalist system making us miserable.

>>4693205
You do know what intellectualism means right?

[Anonymous No.4693254]

>>4693232
Factually wrong on every aspect, I'm afraid.

[Anonymous No.4693255]

>>4693232
>Ever since it has been formalized by mathematicians in the 19th century
But it was other way around. Frege tried to ground math in logic, not ground logic in math.

Do you even Principia Mathematica?

[Anonymous No.4693264]

>>4693230
⇒Schrodinger built his entire world view
So fucking what? Einstein was a theist, Newton was a virgin, Feynman had a low IQ and Dirac was an autist. The truth of science doesn't give a shit about the mental illness of the people who were the first to discover it. Science is about facts and not about worshipping people. Go back to watching shitty youtube videos. You have no education at all.

⇒science relies on the assumption that they exist
An observation is not an assumption, you humungous dimwit.

[Anonymous No.4693275]

>>4693264
I think what he meant by assumption was that science observes something and assumes in persists over time, making it a law.

I dunno, not trying to defend either side in this argument, just trying to clarify where I think the issue comes from.

[Anonymous No.4693276]

>>4693250
Every contemporary logician is a mathematician.

>>4693254
⇒denial
Cry harder.

>>4693255
Frege was a mathematician, dumbass. If you want to brag about your wikipedia knowledge, at least get it right.

[Anonymous No.4693277]

>>4693264
Have you even finished high school, mate?

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693281]

>>4693264

You're a poser here mate.

''The withdrawal of philosophy into a "professional" shell of its own has had disastrous consequences. The younger generation of physicists, the Feynmans, the Schwingers, etc., may be very bright; they may be more intelligent than their predecessors, than Bohr, Einstein, Schrödinger, Boltzmann, Mach and so on. But they are uncivilized savages, they lack in philosophical depth – and this is the fault of the very same idea of professionalism which you are now defending.''

[Anonymous No.4693287]

>>4693275
The issue comes from fedora boy refusing to listen to anything that's not what he thinks constitutes science and logic.

[Anonymous No.4693288]

>>4693196
global scepticism is not widely accepted in philosophy so idk what ur talking about but w/e it's lit and nobody knows shit about philosophy here

[Anonymous No.4693291]

>>4693252
Intellectualism is the exact thing you have been attacking throughout this thread with your infantile shit flinging. You are an anti-intellectual of the worst kind.

[Anonymous No.4693303]

>>4693276
>Every contemporary logician is a mathematician.
>Frege was a mathematician, dumbass
Oh the sweet ignorance.

In other news: /lit/ still continues on chewing the bait.

[Anonymous No.4693307]

>>4693281
lel i posted that quote in a similar thread yesterday to which you replied

get your own quotes loser

[Anonymous No.4693310]

>>4693276
I don't see how maintaining that Frege was a mathematician helps your argument and hurts the others. Can you clarify? Does making him a mathematician preclude him from philosophical discourse (>hurr durr scientists dont do philosopfaggotry)? You just straight up ignored the three posts saying you confused whether logic grounds math or vice versa. Can you give an actual argument?

[Anonymous No.4693311]

>>4693140


no, do *YOU* even schrodingers cat? the point of the thought experiment is not a proof, the paradox *is* the point. to say that a cat is simultaneously dead and alive is incoherent, hence, a different interpretation/explanation of qm is necessary.

[Anonymous No.4693313]

>>4693291
I think you meant to quote the guy using "⇒" in his posts, he's the anti-intellectual, not this kant fellow

[Anonymous No.4693315]

>>4693264
>126
>low IQ

[Anonymous No.4693320]

>>4693275
Science doesn't need to assume anything. Science can observe and measure.

>>4693277
I have an MSc degree. Stop projecting, simpleton.

>>4693281
⇒quoting Feyerabend
Why don't you quote Ken Ham? At least creationists try to make arguments (even though fallacious and wrong) instead of plainly insulting science and scientists.

[Anonymous No.4693326]

>>4693311
>a different interpretation/explanation of qm is necessary.
Not necessary, wanted. Wanted by Irwin Schrodinger, who was very insecure about the irrationality of reality.
We still haven't "moved past" the Copenhagen interpretation, m8. I don't think we will.

[Anonymous No.4693328]

>>4693320
>I have an MSc degree. Stop projecting, simpleton.
*tips fedora*

let me guess, computer science?

[Anonymous No.4693329]

>>4693320
Where on the autism spectrum do you lie?

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693331]

>>4693307
aha, it's a great quote. It's perfect for STEMfags and naive humanities students.

[Anonymous No.4693333]

>>4693303
Are you brain damaged? Serious question. You could look up Frege on wikipedia and the first sentence tells you he was a mathematician. You could look up any contemporay logician on google and see that he studied math. Why do you deny facts? What disorder are you suffering from?

[Anonymous No.4693337]

>>4693331
Oi cunt I respect you now. Willpower guy here, do you think I'm a naive humanities student?
pls validate me :--)

[Anonymous No.4693342]

>>4693333
He may very well be a filthy NT, m8

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693345]

>>4693333
Nice Quads but why is your only defense over your naive notions of science and philosophy to call everyone else 'brain-damaged.'

You clearly haven't been involved in studying these topics very long, please sit back for a while and watch the discussion improve.

[Anonymous No.4693348]

>>4693333
Pic related. Can you read the first sentence? Take a look at my post.>>4693310
I just want a cogent argument from you. All you do is call people names.

[Anonymous No.4693350]

>>4693310
Logic is a field of math and not philosophy. Research in logic requires a background in math.

>>4693313
I am that person (not a "guy" btw) and I know exactly who I'm quoting. Denial of scientific facts is the epitome of anti-intellctualism.

>>4693315
In the academic context 126 is a retard score. The average in STEM is above 140 and in theoretical physics even higher.

[Anonymous No.4693352]

The problem with forms is that they are effortless and far too numerous, thus malefic.

The argument was put more eloquently by some French dude, but that is the essence.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693353]

>>4693337
I think your concept is interesting, but its not really grounded in anything, and I think it can be taken further.

Endorsing scientism is stupid though.

[Anonymous No.4693354]

>>4693348
Fuck! I forgot to attach my image. Let your name-calling commence!

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693360]

>>4693350
>Denial of scientific facts is the epitome of anti-intellctualism


Can someone screencap this for future use in threads like this.

[Anonymous No.4693363]

>>4693350
Show me one example in this thread of anybody denying scientific facts.
And if you're "not a guy", it makes sense to me that you're such a closed minded retard. I wonder which dude's cock it is you're after that said all this shit before you did.

[Anonymous No.4693364]

>>4693328
No, I'm not a retard.

>>4693329
I took the official autism test on /b/ once and turned out to be normal. No surprise. Stop projecting your insecurities into me.

>>4693342
NT? What's that supposed to mean? Nitwitted twat?

[Anonymous No.4693365]

>>4693288

Of course it's not. I hoped that a fellow litizen would've recognized that philosopfag applies to the argument and the way it's delivered, not as a blanket attack but w/e.

[Anonymous No.4693369]

>>4693364
>official autism test on /b/
I'm supposed to take that seriously?

[Anonymous No.4693376]

>>4693350
>In the academic context 126 is a retard score. The average in STEM is above 140 and in theoretical physics even higher.
Really? I read somewhere that STEM was in the 120's, literature in the low 130's, and people above that aren't numerous enough to get good statistics out of. Is that just undergrad, and you're talking about post-grad, or something?

[Anonymous No.4693378]

>>4693345
⇒faggot who denies science and logic
⇒calls others uneducated
What are you doing to my sides?

>>4693348
>>4693354
Great job. You found the wikipedia. Now read it, moron.

[Anonymous No.4693373]

>>4693364
>Actually telling someone "I'm not autistic"

Oh fuckin' wow!

[Anonymous No.4693387]

>>4693350
>In the academic context 126 is a retard score. The average in STEM is above 140 and in theoretical physics even higher.
but that's not even true
http://www.statisticbrain.com/iq-estimates-by-intended-college-major/

[Anonymous No.4693398]

>>4693353
> its not really grounded in anything, and I think it can be taken further.
Well, I sort of have taken it further, but I've forgotten little details like which particular schools of thought each thing comes from, which philosopher said what, and which studies agree with my philosophy, but that's why I'm here on the computer again, I want to be able to find those things again without people IRL seeing I'm weak.
>Endorsing scientism is stupid though.
I only said I sort of do, but do explain why you think so. I feel the best we can do for humanity is get ourselves a decent understanding of humans as animals, and work to make society as open for humans to act in their animalistic ways as possible.
That's the one way I consider myself close to Marx thinking-wise. Eliminate ideology, true human liberation and all that.

In my opinion, the Ego and Super-Ego are the ideology, the Id is the human, and the thing I wish to free. Finding just what the Id is through scientific and historical observation of the nature of humans and other great apes is just a method I wish to use to help get me there.

[Anonymous No.4693400]

>>4693350
>Logic is a field of math and not philosophy. Research in logic requires a background in math.
That's not true, all philosophy majors have logic classes

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693401]

>>4693378
When have I denied that these things are successful methods of measuring the materialist conception of the universe. Science is wonderful at doing that. However, Science is bundled up in capitalist ideology and politics. It is impossible to be purely scientific because of history, science is akin to capitalism and they are intrinsically entwined. In that sense, the measurement that it is doing (and I am against deifying measurement of any king really, but to bring the argument to a level you can understand..) perpetuates these so-called 'facts' - grounded in assumptions- that have a political agenda.

Science is an amoral, politically motivated practice of measurement and accumulation, or at least, due to history, that is how it now exists. You cannot think science without thinking capitalism. They are impossible to separate.

Anyway, I know I'm falling for bait at this stage because you've offered legit nothing new these last couple of posts apart from some, quite frankly, boring name calling.

Anyway, you lost this argument a long time ago.

[Anonymous No.4693403]

>>4693363
⇒Show me one example
Read these posts and laugh: >>4693147 >>4693230 >>4693252 This idiot actually believes science is a capitalist conspiracy and doesn't really exist.

>>4693369
Google the Baron-Cohen test. It's the only officially accepted autism test and it was linked on /b/ some time ago.

>>4693373
What's wrong with answering questions truthfully? Do you expect me to apologize for not sharing your communicational deficit?

>>4693376
I'm talking about Europe, not 'murica. In 'murica I guess you're considered above average if you know how to spell your own name.

[Anonymous No.4693411]

>>4693387
See >>4693403

>>4693400
The logic classes for philosophy students are dumbed down even harder than for CS students, yet they are still failing them.

[Anonymous No.4693416]

>>4693400
I wouldn't bother, mate. This poster shits up these threads and I've argued with her a million times. No matter what she's given to the contrary she won't move from any false position she may have.
>>4693403
>Baron-Cohen test
Fo sho. Forgive me for making a knee-jerk reaction. When seeing "autism test" and "/b/" in the same post one can only make certain assumptions much like science :^)

[Anonymous No.4693419]

>>4693083
Sorry for late response.

>This is done by designing abstract models in order to gain testable predictions.

Exactly, look how stupid you are, you've just made my point.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693427]

>>4693398
That's fair enough as a method of inquiry.

If you're interested in science as a method of inquiry look towards Ray Brassier, and the sort of quasi-school of speculative realism. I've not done much with it yet, but it's pretty diametrically opposed to my belief systems.

I think you should ground this will thing in both physics and hindu thought, with pepperings of schopenhauer - it could be a really interesting concept.

Ego and Super-Ego as ideological structures makes sense to an extent (you're missing the developmental stages of psychoanalytic theory, seduction theory and laplanche's revision (look towards his 'general theory of seduction' and his concept of 'enigmatic signifiers')

Where you're second concept falls apart is that psychoanalysis (id, ego, superego being freud's second topography) is not a science (even though it tried..) and it treats the brain as a THINKING SUBJECT rather than that psychological approach (read: scientific) of treating it like an object. You cannot treat it like an object if you want to get to the root of human subjectivity. Hopefully that was food for thought

[Anonymous No.4693424]

>>4693401
⇒is losing the argument
⇒goes full retard and tries to derail into /pol/ shit flinging

Science has nothing to do with politics or capitalism. You are an uneducated fucktard. You have been called out for your ignorance repeatedly. Get over it and stop embarrassing yourself further. Your tears are entertaining though.

[Anonymous No.4693429]

>>4693424
>someone doesn't work or do actual science at a university and has never done research

How is funding allocated again?

[Anonymous No.4693432]

>>4693419
You didn't even have a point to begin with. Your post makes no sense whatsoever. Science uses abstraction. It isn't my fault you are too dumb to understand this.

[Anonymous No.4693434]

>>4693403
Indeed, but he never denied and individual scientific facts. He never said he disbelieved gravity in the context of our universe, but only that he questions the existence of our universe, just as any person does when they've gotten high and hung out with hippies too much.

But as I said, you are a woman, and therefore predisposed to closed-mindedness and stupidity. But that's okay, you may still be pretty cute.

[Anonymous No.4693435]

>>4693424
>Science has nothing to do with politics or capitalism
Debatable. The space race was politically motivated. Also, depending on a nation's current needs can provide government funding to certain scientific projects and the like. I dunno, I don't fully agree with him on the capitalism spook being present in science but it does have some influence.

[Anonymous No.4693441]

>OP raises legitimate question

>One legitimate answer in entire thread immediately ignored
>>4692902
>sci/phil shitpost derail ensues

This is why we can't have nice things, lit.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693442]

>>4693424
Do you understand history? Why has scientific thought been pushed towards weaponry instead of sustainable living? Why has it been pushed towards iPads instead of poverty?

It's not a conspiracy, it's well acknowledged. Science is a structure of power and you've done nothing to rebuke my assertions.

[Anonymous No.4693443]

>>4693432
The key is abstract concepts that can't be tested. Your notion of abstract is models that predict observable reality. Science must remain silent on stuff that can't be measured. Again that's my whole point. Learn to read.

[Anonymous No.4693446]

>>4693429
The allocation of funding doesn't affect the truth of science. Why are you distracting from the topic of discussion by going off on a tangent? Next you're gonna talk about how the cleanliness of toilets affects science because scientists need to take a shit once in a while. You're grasping at straws.

[Anonymous No.4693450]

>>4693441
Welcome to every philosophy thread on /lit/ for the past couple months. Maybe if the shit-posters actually read both science and philosophy we could have an actual discussion.

I dunno, occasionally there is an insightful post but is it all worth it? Nope.

>>4693446
What the actual fuck? No funding means certain scientific projects are unavailable meaning the truth you love so much is not pursued in a meaningful way.

[Anonymous No.4693453]

>>4693446
>The allocation of funding doesn't affect the truth of science.

What? You don't see any restraint on what 'truth' might be pursued in this? I can't imagine how it is to see the world like you do.

[Anonymous No.4693459]

>>4693434
⇒he questions the existence of our universe
And this is where he reached maximum retardation. It's unhealthy to go full retard, even if you do it for the purpose of being deep and edgy.

>>4693435
⇒The space race
Are you confusing science with engineering? Fucking pop sci retard.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693460]

>>4693443
The person you are responding too simply cannot fathom that science isn't 100% objective reality and truth. He has admirable faith I'll give him that, but no ability to even let go of his beliefs to allows for devil's advocate. A true shitposter of the highest regard - and I've been a phi shitposter for a while now.

[Anonymous No.4693464]

>>4693442
⇒Do you understand history?
Yes, I do. Better than you.

⇒Why has scientific thought been pushed towards weaponry instead of sustainable living?
Who the fuck cares about sustainable living?

⇒Why has it been pushed towards iPads instead of poverty?
You're just mad because you can't afford an iPad. Cry harder, poorfag. This has nothing to do with science btw.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693467]

>>4693459
>Are you confusing science with engineering? Fucking pop sci retard.
What is your definition of science. If landing men on the MOON doesn't qualify as science I would love to know what science has done for us?

I'm having the best time imagining this massive HAES, Fat Acceptance Tumblr-core nu-atheist chemistry student in a community college questioning the worthlessness of her degree.

Please post more it's so entertaining. You only communicate in memes!

Can you please, please for the love of god, respond with an actual TANGIBLE response, proof and rebuke for any of my posts?

[Anonymous No.4693470]

>>4693443
"Abstract concepts that can't be tested" are meaningless. If you want to talk about invisible and non-interacting bullshit without basis in reality, then you're simply insane.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693472]

>>4693464
credibility...waning....

[Anonymous No.4693473]

>>4693459
>The Space Race sparked increases in spending on education and pure research
>the race to space led quickly to a push by legislators and educators for greater emphasis on mathematics and the physical sciences in American schools
Sounds like a bit more than just engineering kiddo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Race

[Anonymous No.4693478]

>>4693464
Now you are just being ridiculous. Stop being a coward and stop trying to win.

[Anonymous No.4693484]

>>4693450
>>4693453
Funding is not a problem of science but of econmics and politics. Science doesn't become less true just because it doesn't receive funding.

[Anonymous No.4693491]

>>4693470
Like the number "1"?

[Anonymous No.4693499]

>>4693467
Landing a man on the moon was a silly propaganda gimmick, nothing more. If you think this is what science means, then you are definitely not qualified to use the word "science". Have you ever taken a science class? Can you even name and explain one scientific law? I really feel like talking to a mentally handicapped child.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693500]

>>4693484
It's not about the truth of science, it is about the fact that historically, science has been on a politically motivated trajectory and its agenda has been bent to suit the capitalist one - in that case then the two are bound up due to socio-economic relations and science inhabits the same space. There is no pure science separate from politics and capitalism because it is a FORCE weilded by capitalism, to OBJECTIFY the world.

[Anonymous No.4693501]

>>4693427
I think I will look into some of the names mentioned, but I fear I'll just run into concepts I'm familiar with said with different combinations of words. Either way, I'll be able to look a bit smarter and that's partially important.

And I understand id and ego aren't exactly scientific, but to me the seem to coincide with something much more semi-scientific.
I think I'm not alone in saying the ego is (positive) reinforcement, the super-ego is punishment/negative reinforcement. The Id is human nature unaffected by these things.

The most important thing to me is to look at the apes. We know their nature very well, I think, and I've seen they're nearly identical to humans in all of their behaviours. All they lack is symbolic interaction, but even that can be taught to them, and humans with it still act just the same as they do.

It is also my opinion that this relates directly to politics, and to what Schopenhauer felt is the dual nature of man. The Orangutans, Gorillas and Chimps act one way, and the Bonobos act another. The patriarchy/right-wing etc. is the Chimps and gorillas, the matriarchy/left-wing is the bonobos, or at least wants to be. In my opinion the bonobo lifestyle is so universally unattractive that the left as it is now can only lead us toward an orangutan-like existence.

Do you see where I'm getting with this?

[Anonymous No.4693509]

>>4693472
⇒ad hominem
⇒no argument

>>4693478
I'm not "trying to win". I already won with my first post. Now I'm just explaining why you are wrong and retarded.

>>4693491
Is math another thing you don't understand?

[Anonymous No.4693505]

>>4693484
But that's not what anyone is saying.
>Phenomenon X is observable in theory
>We cannot observe phenomenon X at moment because we need more funding
>Government: "Fuck that."
>Scientists: "But muh truth!"
This specific truth of phenomenon X is then unknown due to politics. No one is saying it isn't truth, just that we won't know it's true.

You silly, dawg.

[Anonymous No.4693507]

>>4693484
You are dodging the question. Have you ever tried to get funding? Where you have to declare how your research makes profit possible? It's hopelessly intertwined, stop with your cheap cop-outs.

[Anonymous No.4693510]

>>4693459
Prove you're not dreaming, cunt.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693512]

>>4693501
you seem bright enough and who am I to critique your ideas, but my email is [e-mail] - we can have a proper decent chat about these things and recommend each other stuff rather than wading through the shit in this thread.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693516]

>>4693509
Ok now respond to this comment>>4693467

Unless you're the propaganda person in which I answered you already lol

[Anonymous No.4693520]

>>4693509
>⇒ad hominem
>⇒no argument
Funny, that applies to literally every one of your posts.

>inb4 tu quoque

[Anonymous No.4693521]

>>4693509
>Is math another thing you don't understand?

It fulfills all your criteria for insane beliefs

[Anonymous No.4693526]

>>4693500
⇒lunatic conspiracy theories
>>>/x/ >>>/pol/

>>4693505
>>4693507
And how do you believe this invalidates the scientific method? Learn to read. You completely missed the topic of discussion.

>>4693510
⇒hurr durr is reality really real?
⇒am I being profound yet?
Grow up. Nobody cares about your kindergarten pseudo-intellectualism.

[Anonymous No.4693535]

>>4693516
See >>4693499

>>4693520
⇒projecting

>>4693521
No, it doesn't. Math is a tool for science.

[Anonymous No.4693536]

>>4693526
>And how do you believe this invalidates the scientific method? Learn to read. You completely missed the topic of discussion.

No, you did because of your impaired reading ability. Are you dyslexic?

[Anonymous No.4693545]

>>4693526
No one is saying it invalidates the scientific method! Where are you getting this? We are saying that government funding can prevent the application of the scientific method. I don't know how I can make this any simpler for you to understand. You're on a literature board and you claim to be scientifically minded so I assume you can read with some measurable ability and that you have some ability to critically think but every response you've made regarding funding has completely missed the point.
>>4693535
How is that projecting? You called someone out for ad hominem and in the same post you called someone a retard. Do you know what ad hominem means? Do you know what projecting means?

[Anonymous No.4693546]

>>4693535
>No, it doesn't. Math is a tool for science.

This makes 1's observable how?

I can also draw a picture of Odin and claim he's real.

[Anonymous No.4693547]

>>4693536
⇒can't into the English language
⇒calls others dyslexic

my lels are in orbit

[Anonymous No.4693556]

>>4693547
You've stated verbatim that science and politics doesn't influence each other and called it bullshit. This is contrary to observable fact.

[Anonymous No.4693559]

>>4693545
Read this thread again and realize how stupid you are. You completely missed the point and you're arguing a straw man.

>>4693546
Never go full retard.

[Anonymous No.4693563]

>>4693559
>Never go full retard

NOU

[Anonymous No.4693564]

>>4693556
⇒verbatim
nope

I said the validity of the scientific method has nothing to do with politics. If you don't understand this, you might want to go back to elementary school.

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693575]

Guys, this thread is finished. Crazy Arrow Girl has literally said NOTHING of merit. Let's rejoice in a small victory for critical thinking and not a defeat for science, but hopefully a rethinking of its position within the world.

[Anonymous No.4693579]

>>4693564
No you didn't. You should know that if you don't write it explicitly, it doesn't matter what you "really meant". You sound like you're still stuck in elementary school.

[Anonymous No.4693581]

>>4693559
What point did I miss?
You: "Science has nothing to do with politics or capitalism"
Other posters: "How is funding allocated again?" "...a nation's current needs can provide government funding to certain scientific projects..."
You: "The allocation of funding doesn't affect the truth of science." "Funding is not a problem of science but of econmics and politics. Science doesn't become less true just because it doesn't receive funding."
Other posters: >>4693505 >>4693507

Explain the missed point.

[Anonymous No.4693586]

>>4693575
Thanks for a good discussion while it lasted.

[Anonymous No.4693589]

>>4693526
>⇒hurr durr is reality really real?
>⇒am I being profound yet?
I'm not trying to be profound, I'm asking you to use your scientific method to prove you aren't a figment of my imagination and that I'm not a drunk bum on acid in the 1970's walking through New York City masturbating right now.

[Anonymous No.4693596]

>>4693575
>Crazy Arrow Girl
What? Why is she called that?

[Anonymous No.4693600]

>>4693596
Because she's crazy, a girl, and uses arrows

[Anonymous No.4693602]

>>4693575
I like you. Finally a tripfag with something to contribute

[Anonymous No.4693609]

>>4693600
Oh. I thought the arrow thing was referring to something else.

[Anonymous No.4693622]

>>4693596
She's one of my favorite pastimes on /lit/
I hope she's hot I like to think that she is. Hot women are usually a crazy combination of self-important, stupid and bitchy.

[Anonymous No.4693623]

>>4693609
Well then I guess you thought wrong then, 609
Maybe if you weren't some dipshit 609 downs syndrome retard you would've made better rap music

[Anonymous No.4693627]

>>4693623
Curse my faulty genetics!

[Anonymous No.4693628]

>>4693622
*women are stupid and bitchy.
You said a lot of unnecessary words there, m8

[Anonymous No.4693634]

>>4693575
⇒you
⇒having said anything of merit

No serious philosopher denies or questions the existence of the universe. You are not a philosopher, not even a pop philosopher or a philosophy fan. You're just an underaged dipshit talking out of his ass.

[Anonymous No.4693639]

>>4693579
Your lack of reading comprehension isn't my problem.

>>4693581
Read the whole thread. Why did you even enter the discussion without knowing the context?

[Anonymous No.4693640]

>>4693634
Damn, now we are getting personal. Do you have a mail bby? :3

[Anonymous No.4693643]

>>4693627
>your yfw face when you made this post in this thread ITTT thread thread face

[Anonymous No.4693647]

>>4693639
Platos forms? You haven't discussed them at all.

[Anonymous No.4693649]

>>4693634
post ur tits

[Anonymous No.4693650]

>>4693589
You talk like a 5 year old. It's time for you to grow up.

[Anonymous No.4693653]

>>4693639
I was in the thread before you. There are several topics going on at once. I addressed one of them.
Also, >>4693647


>>4693643
Pic related.

[Anonymous No.4693654]

>>4693650
You talk like a cunt. It's time for you to post yours (your cunt)

[GymmanuelKant !NCCaLTlz1w No.4693667]

>>4693586
>>4693602
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.4693682]

>>4693650
I would love to have you walking around my apartment naked screaming about how much of a pseudo-intellectual I am, having just finished masturbating, I think it's my fetish.

[Anonymous No.4693698]

>>4693667


that cigarello looks like a drooping half-chub

[Anonymous No.4693700]

>>4693647
Plato's forms are a very primitive concept. They have no deeper meaning and there is no point in mystifying or romanticizing them. A particular horse is not the same as the word "horse"? A horse is a special case of an animal? Whoa Plato dude, your systematic hierarchy is blowing my mind (<--- this was sarcasm, just saying in case you aspies didn't notice). All we can learn from reading about Plato's forms is that the ancient greeks were conceptually on the mental level of a toddler and their abstract reasoning skills were massively underdeveloped compared to ours (or at least to that of a normally developed contemporary person; some people ITT might in fact be cognitively impaired).

[Anonymous No.4693701]

>>4693649
Some people are paying to see my tits. I ain't gonna post them for free. /lit/ is SFW btw.

[Anonymous No.4693708]

>>4693700
Your ass is a primitive concept but that ain't gonna stop me ANALyzing the meaning of it to find the truth hidden within (that's me bangin ur ass in case your assburgers didn't notice what I put over there (like i put my penis over there in ur butt) btw the truth within is me jizzing in there lol)

[Anonymous No.4693712]

>>4693701
dumb thot think her ass a classy hoe but diss bitch is BASIC AS FUCK DOE

[Anonymous No.4693716]

>>4693708
>>4693712
A fitting end to this thread if I do say so.

[Anonymous No.4693731]

>>4693716
let's see what u can fit in ur end bb ;P

[Anonymous No.4693750]

>>4693701
Are they? How much?

[Anonymous No.4693764]

Y'all niggas are postin' in a troll thread.

Let it die.

[Anonymous No.4693775]

>>4693700
It's a damn good attempt at a first try at a grand theory of everything that didn't really involve gods and was dependent only on rationality. You sound like someone who would sincerely scream at kids for being ignorant about quantum mechanics. You're fucking retarded if you place no value on the history of human ideas.

[Anonymous No.4693796]

>>4693764
my willy's willying in a willy den (ur moms ass in case u downies don't sunder sand
don't hit on me btw silly boys u cudn't afford me LOL)

o and im not bangin ur mom rite now
because this was said with no evidence, we can dismiss it and assume i am bangin her rite now #fuckedbyabully #RipPaulWalker #notbuyingit

[Anonymous No.4693886]

has it been posted yet

[Anonymous No.4693889]

>>4693750
To be honest, in my time working as a fetish model alongside my studies it never occurred to me that someone "only" wanted to see my tits. And before you ask: No, I'm not gonna give you my contact details on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.4693923]

>>4693442
What science as a methodological tool is used for is determined by political factors. The guy you're arguing with simply sees science as "the methodological tool" and you see science as the tool & the use of it. You are both right insofar as you have different definitions of science. How this has not jumped to your face at the first moment is beyond me.

Chopan please come out and slap these fools.

[Anonymous No.4693939]

>>4693889
How can I give you money if you don't tell me how to reach you? For a genius of SCIENCE and LOGIC you sure aren't a good businesswoman :\

[Anonymous No.4693945]

>>4693889
No one cares whore.

[Anonymous No.4693957]

>>4693775
⇒grand theory of everything
That phrase doesn't mean what you think it means.

⇒scream at kids for being ignorant about quantum mechanics
They shouldn't talk about things they don't understand. If they talk ignorantly, of course I will correct them.

⇒place no value on the history of human ideas
Where did I say they are of no value? There's a difference in calmly and rationally acknowledging the history of western thought versus childishly romanticizing the primitive and outdated ideas of ancient greek philosophers and treating them as if they were the ultimate truth, the answer to everything and the disproof of science. I honestly don't understand what combination of pseudo-intellectualism and lack of education it takes to do the latter, but some posters in this ITT proved that it is possible to be that willfully ignorant.

[Anonymous No.4693974]

>>4693957
link ur backpage ad you autistic fucking prostitute

[Anonymous No.4694023]

>>4693957
>greek philosophers and treating them as if they were the ultimate truth, the answer to everything and the disproof of science.
>disproof of science.

Lel you're bad at reading comprehension. It's only the theistfags who does this. Critiquing science isn't disproving it. The philosopher of science only critiques with the aim of honing the blade of science. The ethics and morals guys just warns about moralizing science in a way where science steps out of its bounds, into the "mysterious" and the subjective where it doesn't belong. And the heideggerans are worried about the ecological impact of scientific development on our home, while not denying the wonders and possibilities of science. Relax hun.

[Clerisy !!JAFrZ3sTBcQ No.4694494]

>>4692852
lol good 1

[Anonymous No.4696894]

You're all try to argue metaphysics versus science. Forms are a concept, not hard science, and don't stand up under empirical scrutiny. However, that does not make them invalid. Forms are concerned with ideals created from human abstractions. They are two entirely different concepts that really can't be compared. Forms are concerned with perception, but not physical perception. Rather they are concerned with our perception of our own ability to think.

[Anonymous No.4696935]

>>4696894
>its not hard science, and don't stand up under empirical scrutiny. However, that does not make them invalid
FUCKING THIS
This is what scientificist and STEMfags need to know