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/lit/ - Literature

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3880498 No.3880498 [Reply] [Original]

Did Hitler believe he was Nietzsche's Übermensch?

And how influenced was he by Nietzsche in general?

>> No.3880504

nietsche's dumbass sister was the one that ruined everything

>> No.3880503

>>3880498
Probably not. If he was at all familiar with the concept of the ubermensch he would know that it's an unobtainable ideal, not an actual type of person.

>> No.3880511

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch#The_.C3.9Cbermensch_and_the_Nazis

>> No.3880556

>>3880504
/thread

>> No.3881599

>>3880498
No, he wasn't. In fact, the Nazis feared Nietzsche's philosophy. Goebbels wrote that Nietzsche should not used for education reasons since it would turn the youth rebellous.

Also, they closed down the Nietzsche club where Thomas Mann was among them.

No, Hitler didn't. It was just his dumb sister trying to integrate Nietzsche's works into Nazism

>> No.3881608

>>3881599

fucking women, they ruin everything

>> No.3882586

Nietzsche was pretty outspokenly against nationalism and a lot of his stuff (namely stuff in genealogy of morals) can be applied to emancipatory left movements

>> No.3882603

He had Nietzsche on his bookcase but never read it

>> No.3884763

>>3882586
This.
Also, Nietzsche gave up his German nationality out of protest gainst nationalism. That alone is proof he cannot be associated with fascism

>> No.3885713

So is 'My Sister and I' real?

>> No.3885724

>>3882586
>Nietzsche was pretty outspokenly against nationalism and a lot of his stuff (namely stuff in genealogy of morals) can be applied to emancipatory left movements
He was against nationalism because he was a Europeanist. Yes, you could integrate his ideas into 'left movements' because at times he was a vague rambler, but obviously the modern left fits into his slave morality category.

>> No.3886798

>>3885724
>obviously the modern left fits into his slave morality category

/pol/ pls go

>> No.3886851

>>3882586
Nietzsche would probably have been more outspoken against the right than the left
some applications do apply I suppose
Nietzsche was effectively an individualist anarchist, this is pretty diametrically opposed to fascism
Hitler may have believed this, yes
Nietzsche would have probably tried to assassinate him had he been living,
He (Nietzsche) came out against Nationalism (specifically German Nationalism) and Anti-Semitism on numerous occasions
In short >>3880498
yes. mais,
Nietzsche's original idea I think was more based in a self-help sort of manner
As in "I" am the one who is capable of transumting the values, therefore I should because "I" am capable
the "I" is universal_
Nietzsche also came out Against racialism
so, basically what I am stating is that
maybe Hitler thought so
although,
there is nothing of which I can conceive
that Nietzsche would have hated more
than Nazis

>> No.3886856

>>3886851
wow youre a fucking idiot

>> No.3886869

>>3886856
but I'm not.
(perhaps there were unconscious statements)
I took a class on Spinoza which claimed so
-although i'm not sure exactly why nietzsche was even metioned-
Consciously he was opposed.
This is undeniable

>> No.3886871

>>3886856
I mean he broke with Wagner because of his german nationalism and antisemitism,
you can not deny this.

It exists there in history.

>> No.3886909
File: 56 KB, 445x441, 1_stern.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3886909

Nazi philosophers:
-people you can have-
...
...
...
...
...
not even Heidegger
...
the list actually just doesn't go on.

>> No.3886914

>identified as Polish rather than German
>Actively rejected Germanism
>railed against antisemitism
>was against most forms of collectivism from socialism to nationalism
>fell out with Wagner in part because of his batshit racial and nationalist ideas

Plus, he would likely have found fascism and its derivatives as far too nihilistic.

And >>3880504 is all else that really needs to be said.

So, in short, they could only have a passing understanding of what an Ubermensch constitutes, because any closer inspection would have revealed that Nietzsche would have been no ally to the party.

I think the Nazis did likewise with Weininger; taking the good parts of his ideology, but omitting the fact that he was a Jew.

>> No.3886924

>>3886914
>Weininger
>good parts

>> No.3886926

>>3886924

Good for the Nazis, I meant.
Or, if you want to be super PC, "compatible parts"

>> No.3886933

>>3886914

this. pick up any writing of his and he will diss krauts super hard

>> No.3886946

>>3886909
i'm afraid whoever made that is severely disabled and possibly clinically retarded

>> No.3886966

>>3886933
maybe its because
Krauts at the time
relationship to
Jews at the time...
but
I'm no rocket scientist

>> No.3886976

>>3886946
false.
please stop ruining literature and philosophy for everybody

>> No.3887001
File: 40 KB, 460x500, ohlookitsthisthreadagain.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3887001

Expecting to get a different answer this evening from the ones earlier this week?

>> No.3887877

>>3886966
Nietzsche was good friends with a bunch of Jews. He even pleaded for integration of the Jews and to banish anti-semites from Germany. Prussian officers wedded to Jewish banker daughters was Nietzsche's idea to solve the Jewish question.

>> No.3887894

>>3886909
Edith Stein was killed by Nazis, if that counts

>> No.3887994

They employed it for their propaganda machine.
Being a nationalist feels much better if you believe you're the master race.
One of their goals was to breed the Übermensch by selecting and training outstanding children of the "aryan race".

It isn't know if the higher ups actually believed in it or not.

Nietzsche himself wasn't a nationalist.
Quite the contrary, recon.

>> No.3888002

>>3885713
>no known german version
gee, I wonder ...

>> No.3888015

>>3886798
>/pol/ pls go
Sorry, but your inter-forum squabbles have nothing to do with it.

The modern left even glorifies the handicapped.

>> No.3888020

>>3887877
pig disgusting.

>> No.3888028

>>3888015
I've never understood this. Why the fuck should some retarded cripple be glorified? They deserve nothing short of euthanization.

>> No.3888062

>>3888028
will you euthanize yourself voluntarily when it becomes mandatory to euthanize crippled retards, or will you make a fuss?

>> No.3888066

>>3888020
>not wanting to bed a busty Jewess

Non-Aryan detected.

>> No.3888068

Nietzschean existentialism/philosophy in general acknowledges that positing values that are made by others, as your own, is a fundamentally inauthentic way to exist. It's all about positing your own values onto the world by proceeding through Nietzsche's 3 stages "Camel-Lion-Child", in order to confirm one's existence and gain an authentic will to power. Hitler was probably influenced by Nietzsche tho. Doubt he interpreted Nietzsche's stuff in-and-of-itself tbh prolly just interpreted it in a self-serving bias sort of way.

>> No.3888116

>>3880503
so you stopped before even trying?
This is why you never will be an ubermensch

>> No.3888136

>>3888015
/pol/ awaits you, stormfag

>> No.3888140

>>3888116
Just because it's unobtainable doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Do you even Nietzsche?

>> No.3888174

>>3888136
>/pol/ awaits you, stormfag
Why would I be interested in their Germanism?

>> No.3888180

>>3886871
Nationalism and antisemitism really have nothing to do with aristocracy, Greek ideals, etc. Never mind what on earth Nietzsche has to do with anarchism.

>> No.3888188
File: 102 KB, 500x360, tumblr_mael99rbFN1qcu0j0o1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3888188

Look Nietzsche belongs with the Individualist Anarchists, (they're one our whiskers-observer status-in the coalition)
point de caption, pin it down

>> No.3888247

>>3885724
>Europeanist
He wasn't even in favor of German unification (he hated Bismarck for it) much less a Continental union.

>> No.3888251

OP. read Mein Kampf ..(the politically neutral translation)

>> No.3888305

Can someone explain the concept of Will of Power to me? I think I always get it wrong because Nietzsche seems to be never really clear about what it is.
(Reading Nietzsche sometimes feels like beeing shouted at.)

>> No.3888338

>>3888247
>He wasn't even in favor of German unification (he hated Bismarck for it) much less a Continental union.
I'm not talking about European Unionism, which is against European culture anyway, but the idea that European culture supersedes that of any particular nation.

>> No.3888349

>>3888305
It's a move on from Schopenhauer's will to live. Nietzsche seems to feel that man did not just have a will to live, but an ambition to create and expand using the force life bestows in him. Probably Nietzsche's best explanation is a combination from Beyond Good and Evil and The Will to Power respectively:

>a living and not a dying body... will have to be an incarnate will to power, it will strive to grow, spread, seize, become predominant - not from any morality or immorality but because it is living and because life simply is will to power... 'Exploitation'... belongs to the essence of what lives, as a basic organic function; it is a consequence of the will to power, which is after all the will to life.

>My idea is that every specific body strives to become master over all space and to extend its force (--its will to power:) and to thrust back all that resists its extension. But it continually encounters similar efforts on the part of other bodies and ends by coming to an arrangement ("union") with those of them that are sufficiently related to it: thus they then conspire together for power. And the process goes on--

>> No.3888367

Nietzsche was like a proto nazi

>> No.3888377

>>3888349

>quoting from The Will to Power

her sister wrote that book bro

>> No.3888407

I always wonder if Nietzsches philosophy is really as selfish as it seems. Is it?

>> No.3888417

>>3888407
Stirner was a nice guy to his woman

>> No.3888438 [DELETED] 

>>3888338
That's also bullshit, Nietzsche clearly identified different sets of values ("table of excellencies") for different peoples:

"Always shalt thou be the foremost and prominent above others: no one shall thy jealous soul love, except a friend"—that made the soul of a Greek thrill: thereby went he his way to greatness.

"To have fidelity, and for the sake of fidelity to risk honour and blood, even in evil and dangerous courses" (Germans)

"To honour father and mother, and from the root of the soul to do their will"—this table of surmounting hung another people over them, and became powerful and permanent thereby. (Jews)

The one and one goals for a thousand and one peoples. There's not an inkling that suggests he considered Europe to be THE people or that they held a same table of values.

As far as his opinions on culture (European or otherwise) you should try reading chapter 36 of TSZ before infusing him with what appear to be your own views.

>> No.3888449

>>3888338
That's also bullshit, Nietzsche clearly identified different sets of values ("table of excellencies") for different peoples:

>"Always shalt thou be the foremost and prominent above others: no one shall thy jealous soul love, except a friend"—that made the soul of a Greek thrill: thereby went he his way to greatness.

>"To have fidelity, and for the sake of fidelity to risk honour and blood, even in evil and dangerous courses" (Germans)

>"To honour father and mother, and from the root of the soul to do their will"—this table of surmounting hung another people over them, and became powerful and permanent thereby. (Jews)

The thousand and one goals for a thousand and one peoples. There's not an inkling that suggests he considered Europe to be THE people or that they held a same table of values.

As far as his opinions on culture (European or otherwise) you should try reading chapter 36 of TSZ before infusing him with what appear to be your own views.

>> No.3888469

>>3888407
It's neither selfish nor universal, those are two points many people seem to project onto it. It's incredibly exclusive, and while it's not utilitarian it does look benefits/values for humanity in general and how it relates to the individual.

>> No.3888502

>>3888449
>The thousand and one goals for a thousand and one peoples. There's not an inkling that suggests he considered Europe to be THE people or that they held a same table of values.
A Pan-European culture is emergent rather than actualized. German culture is long established. Only recently has the East been attempted to be integrated.

Anyways, why is Nietzsche so boring?

>> No.3888508

>>3888502
>German culture is long established.
That is quite the funny joke you have there.

>> No.3888523

>>3888469
But his philosophy seems to be so unworldly, what benefits could that bring to the people?
Is it really worth it to adapt his thinking?

>> No.3888534
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3888534

>>3888508
"Cut it out, guys, you're making Nazism look ridiculous."

>> No.3888541

>>3888534
>Aryans were making pots while Rome was conquering the world
>Latin is an Indoeuropean language
Pick 1

>> No.3888552

>>3888377
>hasn't read the nachlass

It consists of things he wrote, she just cherry picked and arranged them to her liking and made some adjustments.But the ideas are Freddy's.

>> No.3888557

>>3888523
>Is it really worth it to adapt his thinking?
Me no understanding your English there m8
>But his philosophy seems to be so unworldly, what benefits could that bring to the people?
I'd call him obtuse and sometimes abstract, but his ideas are pretty easy to ground in reality most of the time. We can know what passive and active nihilism looks like without much trouble and it's pretty easy talk about culture in relation to ideas like a last man for example. So I wouldn't call him "unworldly", but rather the opposite. He is after all looking at how we can become very much worldly, whether it being "awake" like the Greeks or not being life denying like Judeo-Christian values.

The benefits are having a decent quality of life, that is a life that one can consider to be worth living.

>> No.3888592

>>3888552
look, the will to power is a statement about how things function, it is not a recommendation, even Heidegger thought so,

Some interpreters also upheld a biological interpretation of the Wille zur Macht, making it equivalent with some kind of social Darwinism. For example the concept was appropriated by some Nazis such as Alfred Bäumler, who may have drawn influence from it or used it to justify their expansive quest for power and world domination.
This reading was criticized by Martin Heidegger in his 1930s courses on Nietzsche—suggesting that raw physical or political power was not what Nietzsche had in mind. This is reflected in the following passage from Nietzsche's notebooks:
I have found strength where one does not look for it: in simple, mild, and pleasant people, without the least desire to rule—and, conversely, the desire to rule has often appeared to me a sign of inward weakness: they fear their own slave soul and shroud it in a royal cloak (in the end, they still become the slaves of their followers, their fame, etc.) The powerful natures dominate, it is a necessity, they need not lift one finger. Even if, during their lifetime, they bury themselves in a garden house![25]

I wonder if Nietzsche read Tolstoy?

>> No.3888600
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3888600

>>3888534
>using Cracked as a source
Really? Though Seanbaby is pretty funny

>> No.3888608

Can someone eli5 the concept of übermensch to me? I've heard so many conflicting things, something about the reasoning for helping a homeless man? Help me understand.

>> No.3888611

>>3888508
The actual joke is, that you're american and laugh about it.

>> No.3888692
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3888692

>>3888136
>le stormfag xD
>>3888534
>Cracked

>> No.3888696

>>3888611
>you're american
News to me.

>> No.3888784

>>3888407
>selfish

go wipe your neighbor's asshole