/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.23363760]

Edition of the Three Kingdoms

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>23337834

NOTE: replace ' dot ' with an actual dot to access the links below
>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

Feel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.

>Work in progress FAQ
https://rentry dot co/n8nrko
You are very welcome to suggest additions/changes/etc... especially for other classical languages

[Anonymous No.23363826]

How feasible would it be to attain reading fluency in Chinese (classical and modern) and Japanese? Decades of effort, I imagine?

[Anonymous No.23363831]

>>23363826
Both modern languages require obsession of the Western student but have been done before and will be done again. 3~5 years.

[Anonymous No.23363840]

>>23360719
recognizing the "true" root from various conjugated forms is really the big "art" so to speak of reaching a more appreciable fluency with Greek, so yeah, you have to be on the lookout bot for perfect-like reduplications like τι- e.g τιτρώσκω, the σκω suffix, nasals e.g κάμ-ν-ω, those with roots ending in velar but masked by e.g ττω like πράττω(πραγ-), ἀγγέλλω(ἀγγελ-) and some others

[Anonymous No.23363916]

>>23363826
You will never fully master every period and style of Classical Chinese. It's not quite to the point of being different languages, but know how intermediate to advanced intermediate students of Greek and Latin have to study an author's style for a time before understanding even a sentence? Classical Chinese will be like that forever.

[Anonymous No.23363936]

>>23363831
shouldn't the second one be noticeably faster to pick up after you've already learned one?

[Anonymous No.23363947]

>>23363826
Using the singular example of Matt vs Japan, he said it took years of consuming Japanese content daily, all day, as well as hours of anki reps, before he could read Japanese lit with some facility. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.23363961]

>>23363947
I'm over 2k words deep into Anki and still struggle to read children's books/speak in complete sentences.
just doing a bit of daily vocabulary isn't cutting it, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.23363965]

>>23363916
Yeah, makes sense. I remember reading that one essay by Mair (?) on classical Chinese, but I doubt it would be impossible to master the style of the greatest authors in the language.
>>23363947
Does he actually read literature or just consoom anime and manga? Learning to read Japanese fluently would mostly consist in just reading lots. It sounds pleasurable

[Anonymous No.23363977]

>>23363961
You are not only supposed to do anki. Anki is the supplement to input. Consume more than you rep. That is how the connections are formed and become automatic.
>>23363965
>Does he actually read literature or just consoom anime and manga?
He started with anime and manga (and easy news articles) and after a couple of years upgraded to proper lit, at which point he said he stopped doing anki because it became an inferior form of input at that level. He joked how he was adding all these cards of literary vocab that would only come up once a year in any other material and that he was beginning to mog native japs vocab wise because they dont read lit.

[Anonymous No.23363986]

>>23363977
if anyone has (or knows where to find) beginner level jp lit recs I'd be grateful to give them a shot.

[Anonymous No.23364021]

I have come again, bringing ruin. Turning hope to despair and victory into death.

[Anonymous No.23364036]

Japanese nibbas be like
>woah, that guy did anki for 5 years and can barely get through a book?
>I guess Japanese is just that difficult, I'd better start doing anki now!
>2 hours of flashcards later: AAAUGGHH IM GETTING SO MUCH INPOOT MY STATS ARE SO HIGH... time to go make off topic posts in a classic languages thread

[Anonymous No.23364322]

>>23364036
based /vt/heos dabbing on all the dekinaitachi

[Anonymous No.23364761]

>>23363739#
Sounds hilarious, please post it here

[Barkon No.23364767]

Awwwww. A faggot.

[Anonymous No.23365032]

>>23364036
Video game brain in action. Japanese learners are largely gamers who expect instant feedback and starve their brains of slow, prolonged nourishment. The same process is visible with Duolingo addicts and gen Z kids.

[Anonymous No.23365042]

>>23363826
it took me 3 years of relaxed study and 2 years of intensive study to get to conversational fluency + being able to read normal novels in Chinese
classical is not a big jump, you just need to learn some different grammar rules and vocabulary. and desu like the only way to get better at classical is just to read more and get a hang of the language, so it's not a very stressful task. also you don't have to practice output (speaking and writing)
anyway I think fluency is a goal you should only pursue with modern languages that you will output in. for classical languages, your goals should be different, as you will be 99% of the time only reading in them.

[Anonymous No.23365233]

How hard/different is old Japanese compared to modern Japanese?

[Anonymous No.23365366]

>>23365233
What makes Old Japanese hard is similar to what makes Old Any-Literary-Language hard: complex verbal and adjectival systems mostly gone from the modern language, a corpus of texts written in a different time and vastly different mentality, different orthography, and various periods with their own unique idioms and challenges.
If your Modern Japanese is good, you can overcome all of these difficulties with ease by starting with just barely pre-Meiji texts and working backwards bit by bit, just as we might work backwards through to Chaucer. You will probably not need more than a quick primer on the differences.

[Anonymous No.23365553]

>>23363739
Did they want to do anything about all the slavery?

[Anonymous No.23365560]

>>23365366
>If your Modern Japanese is good, you can overcome all of these difficulties with ease by starting with just barely pre-Meiji texts and working backwards bit by bit
Isn't part of the trouble that for a long time Japanese was significantly diglossic?

[Anonymous No.23365563]

>Latin skill is stalling at "reading Caesar with effort + a translation"
How do I get out of this rut? Just keep going?

[Anonymous No.23365576]

>>23365563
get Henle Latin 2nd Year from libgen which gives the historical/political context in English as well as glosses for idiomatic phrases. The latin of ceasar is somewhat simplified too but once you get used to the training wheels, the real thing becomes easier.

[Anonymous No.23365584]

>>23365563
I wouldn’t know. I’ve been stuck in the same rut for years.

[Anonymous No.23365629]

>>23365560
That diglossia significantly dissolved over time starting around the Meiji. That's why texts of that period are great for going backwards.

[Anonymous No.23365631]

>>23365629
But won't there be kind of a cliff around when the diglossia dropped off?

[Anonymous No.23365633]

>>23365563
Skills build and plateau. Yes, just keep going.

[Anonymous No.23365667]

>>23365631
Not as much as you might expect. Go read some Fukuzawa Yukichi. There was no total overnight switch to the vernacular: a classicizing but modern style remained for some time. The closest was the postwar adoption of modern kana orthography.

[Anonymous No.23365774]

>>23365667
Oh, I have no trouble with historical kana, I'm more concerned about the word forms themselves.

[Anonymous No.23365836]

>>23365774
A quick primer on verb endings should honestly be enough to read very late Classical Japanese, which uses largely similar vocabulary and syntax to the modern language.

[Anonymous No.23365852]

>>23365667
>>23365774
>>23365836
YOU WILL NEVER BE JAPANESE!

YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPT BY THE JAPANESE AS ONE OF THEIR OWN NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY!

YOU WILL ALWAYS BE A GAIJIN TO THEM!

DEAL WITH IT!

[Anonymous No.23365858]

>>23365852
Yes, this is true for most, though I happen to be a nip binational. There is definitely not shortage of more rewarding and more accepting civilizations in which to immerse oneself. But I support those who are already all-in learning Classical Japanese as well.

[Anonymous No.23365859]

>>23365836
Additional question, do you know any good places to find audio recordings of Japanese texts, especially older ones, aside from YouTube and 青空朗読?

[Anonymous No.23365869]

>>23365852
Yes, the Japanese are fairly racist still. I'm surprised there isn't more international pressure on them to at least outlaw outright racial discrimination as the western powers have done.

[Anonymous No.23365873]

>>23365859
Old CD shops and audiobook websites. For free, though? No. Sorry.

[Anonymous No.23365879]

>>23365873
I've gotten the impression that for some reason Japan just doesn't have a piracy culture like the west. Would you say that's true? If so, why?

[Anonymous No.23365880]

>>23365869
>Yes, the Japanese are fairly racist still
What happened to the west is a perfect example of why this is a good thing.

[Anonymous No.23365887]

>>23365880
Human beings are human beings. It is wrong to judge people on the basis of the color of their skin rather than the content of their character. Now fuck off back to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.23365893]

>>23365880
Agreed.

>>23365879
Race-baiter. You know why.

[Anonymous No.23365898]

>>23365869
>>23365880
You both misunderstand the nip mindset here. Pathetically timid, anxious of any piece not fitting the right place, acting like every day is the final exam of life and being graded by all those around them, preferring to hide from bothersome different behavior? Sure. Racist? They don't even understand the concept.

>>23365879
Yes, because anti-piracy laws are draconian and because the average nip hasn't the spine for it.

[Anonymous No.23365900]

>>23365893
I'm honestly asking.

[Anonymous No.23365938]

>>23365852
Yeah and I'm never gonna be a Roman citizen either but I still enrich my life and soul by learning Latin, shut the fuck up retards, fucking offtopic posters, maybe all of you guys would have a chance of acquiring Japanese if you spent more time READING Japanese texts instead of making these pathetic whiny posts that sound like they were written by a friendless JETcel on /r/japanlife after a girl ran away from him at a bar.
I love Japanese, I love the insightful posts here especially from our resident CC experts who know more about this shit than I ever will, but I don't bring it up because I have nothing insightful to say and it has nothing to do with CLASSICAL LANGUAGES. Go back to fucking /djt/ if you want this level of thread quality, you already have a dogshit thread, don't make this thread dogshit too.

[Anonymous No.23365956]

>>23365898
Piracy's illegal in the US too, it doesn't stop people from downloading movies.

[Anonymous No.23365961]

>>23365938
I might have mentioned in the past that I've started a policy of not using the Internet in English on Mondays and Fridays, in order to force myself to practice other languages.

[Anonymous No.23366467]

I am too dumb, it’s been like 6 years since I’ve started learning french and I can’t even read a single page of a classical book. Been 13 years since I started learning Japanese and I don’t know a single kanji. It’s over…

[Anonymous No.23366468]

>>23366467
What do you mean by classical book?

[Anonymous No.23366484]

>>23365938
Rome isn't a city. It's a spirit.

[Anonymous No.23366504]

>>23366484
>Publius Masturbatorix Mixtus, 200 AD

[Anonymous No.23366507]

>>23366467
If not trolling, you must be doing something wrong. Go ask in a different thread, because those aren't classical languages

[Anonymous No.23366545]

>>23365938
In all ways but the physical, CIVIS ROMANVS SVM

[Anonymous No.23366562]

>>23366545
You mean "in all ways especially physical" *flexes pecs*

[Anonymous No.23366651]

/clg/ - Japanese learning general

[Anonymous No.23366846]

>>23366651
be the change you want to see.

πιθοῦ γυναιξὶ, καίπερ οὐ στέργων ὅμως

confīde mulieribus, quum nōn amēs (vel ōderīs) tamen

trust women, although you nevertheless do not love (or, by litotes, hate) them

From Seven Against Thebes, Aeschylus, line 712

give me a second to find a chud quote to balance this simping

[Anonymous No.23366890]

>>23365956
The laws on piracy in japan are very strict, and enforced. In the US I have torrented whatever I wanted for years without a proxy/vpn/anything and never gotten even a letter. In Japan I wouldve been v& in a month and in jail

[Anonymous No.23366927]

What are you reading currently, /clg/?

I'm working through Seneca's epistles ad Lucuilium and actually enjoying it. They're short enough to get through one in a sitting, the language is straightforward enough that I don't have to lean too hard on a translation. The epistle format is extra comfy and I keep jotting down quotations I like. Made it through the first fifteen or so in the past few days.

[Anonymous No.23367136]

>>23366468
>>23366507
>classical french doesn’t exist
>classical japanese doesn’t exist
Morons

[Anonymous No.23367154]

>>23367136
>>classical french
so you mean Latin?

[Anonymous No.23367176]

>>23367154
Nta, but is the concept of a language having a classical period that hard to grasp?

[Anonymous No.23367283]

>>23367176
yeah it's pretty hard to grasp considering a language like French never had a "classical period" unless you're talking about Racine or Moliere lol

[Anonymous No.23367285]

>>23367283
>what is pantagruel and gargantua
read fucking literature, moron

[Anonymous No.23367304]

>>23367285
Rabelais is not classical

[Anonymous No.23367331]

>>23367304
yah that niggas pretty modern fr fr no cap brutha

[Anonymous No.23367340]

Currently getting my ass handed to me by Roma Aeterna. I just wanna begin reading real Latin godammit

[Anonymous No.23367391]

>>23367331
unironically yes.

[Anonymous No.23367644]

>>23367340
I was in the same predicament, and read Fabulae Syrae and Orberg's edition of De Bello Gallico prior to RA and I believe it helped me tremendously because it helped fill in some gaps and gave me more time to digest (relatively) harder material. It's a big jump from FR, so don't get yourself down. Be patient.

[Anonymous No.23367648]

>>23367340
Once you start reading the real Latin in Roma Aeterna you will kind of wish you could go back to the innocent state that you're in now

[Anonymous No.23367650]

Is ancient greek just a better language to philosophize in?

[Anonymous No.23367651]

>>23366927
Ab Urbe Condita. Finding it surprisingly more difficult than I imagined it to be, and I definitely don't like Livy's style as much as Cicero's was in In Catilinam.

[Anonymous No.23367654]

>>23367648
On one hand I sort of agree, but on the other it was extremely encouraging to be able to read what previously seemed impossible.

[Anonymous No.23367674]

>>23366927
I'm reading Eight Upanishads from Vedanta Press. The Vedic grammar and poor typesetting makes it quite difficult but the texts are short and beautiful.

[Anonymous No.23367702]

>>23367650
compared to english? yes.

[Anonymous No.23367706]

>>23365869
I'm genuinely going to take the time out of my day to call you a faggot here

[Anonymous No.23367711]

>>23365887
you say this as if this was ever the majority opinion on 4chan
"go back to /pol/" is a phrase that should be used exclusively towards retard stormfags that spout idiot talking points, not in response to even an oblique mention of any view that differs from reddit orthodoxy

[Anonymous No.23367939]

>>23367340
Then do so, you have the tools you need
>>23367644
>>23367648
>no, don't read authentic authors
>spend as much time as possible in textbooks and readers

[Anonymous No.23367946]

>>23365887
wtf I love niggers now

[Anonymous No.23368237]

ΜΙΣΩ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑΣ ΥΠΕΡΦΥΩΣ

[Anonymous No.23368758]

>>23366890
Does no one there know how to use a VPN? And is it really that feasible to enforce it?

[Anonymous No.23368873]

>>23367136
Would Old French and Old and Middle Japanese not fall under the scope of this thread? Middle Japanese even has the quality of having been in continuous use in writing after it was no longer a spoken vernacular.

[Anonymous No.23368882]

>>23368873
They would, but that poster was very clearly talking about modern languages.

[Anonymous No.23368883]

>>23367650
No, there's no such thing.
t. has a degree in linguistics

[Anonymous No.23368893]

>>23367711
Why should it matter how common a reprehensible opinion has historically been here, as if that makes it any less reprehensible?

[Anonymous No.23369028]

>only one paper back iliad
>the lines are broken

[Anonymous No.23369609]

>ῥωμαϊστὶ δὲ τὸ ἱστίον βῆλον ὀνομάζουσι
kinda interesting example as well as few others from Plutarch of the changing value of β by that time

more generally it's interesting to see how various Roman names are spelled, like Νομήτωρ for Numitor

[Anonymous No.23369660]

>>23368883
of course all languages are equal now i agree, now lets continue this conversation about ancient greek, western philosophy and linguistics in toki pona or tok pisin, your choice.

[Anonymous No.23369884]

Currently working on Biblical Hebrew, finishing up Hacket's Basic Introduction and it's a lot of fun. Got through Jonah over the course of a semester, any recs for a particular book to look at over the summer to stay in practice?

[Anonymous No.23369902]

>>23368758
There are plenty of means to deanonymize for a determined government, and it is plenty feasible. VPNs are only the first step in a rabbithole of privacy steps you need to take when the sentence can easily be jailtime, and one fuckup and you are done.

[Anonymous No.23369911]

>>23368893
>reprehensible
Meme word used to shame wrongthink, worthless in an anonymous setting. You need to go back

[Anonymous No.23370102]

Perpetually filtered retard anon here. I'm here to report some progress. It really is like Vegeta. You get raped, you come back, you get raped a little less. I'm going to run through all of Roma Aeterna for 16 hours straight.

[Anonymous No.23370172]

>>23369884
How hard is it to get up to the level that you could fake your way through the Torah? I mean like, how hard is it to get to the point that you can recognize nouns and verbs well enough to read it with a vocabulary gloss?

Or do I have to learn the verbal system before I can even read it to that degree?

[Anonymous No.23370207]

>>23370172
You'd need to get through the verbal system. Hebrew's a funky language, it's built off triconsonantal roots, which means that all words are built off three consonants which have a general meaning, and then are formalized into actual words through other consonants and vowels. For example, שׁפת is a root with a general idea of judging. You can make it a noun, שֹׁפֵת , meaning a judge, or more specifically, one who judges in a participial sense, or you can turn it into another noun, מִשְׁפַּת , which is a judgement or a commandment. You can also take that same root and make it into a verb, שָׁפַת , which is to judge, which can then be fucked around with to create different meanings. For instance, the aforementioned form, שָׁפַת , is the third person singular suffix form in the Qal stem, which is the simple stem that doesn't carry an additional meaning, and the suffix form is the general past tense. You could also, however, make it into a third person prefix singular in the Hiphil stem, יַשְׁפִית , with prefix giving a present/future/modal meaning and Hiphil giving a causative meaning, giving a sense of "he will be caused to judge" or something along those lines. Most of translation is first figuring out the root of a word, then looking at what permutations it's been subject to and trying to figure out what exactly it means. For nouns, it's a bit simpler because you need to more memorize words themselves, and the roots are moreso aids in understanding what the exact word means. Like you can either memorize that מִשְׁפַּת means judgement, or you can look at the triconsonental root of judgement and try to figure its meaning thence. Verbs are different, because you memorize the root, and then look at what it's undergone, which gives a more formulaic way of figuring the meaning.

All this is a long winded way of saying that you can't really fake your way too well through a text, not without a pretty solid understanding of the grammar. I very highly recommend Jo Ann Hacket's Basic Introduction to Biblical Hebrew, it's really well done and allows you to have that basic working grammar to get through a lot of texts, though you'll need vocab assistance for most real texts, but that's not a necessary acquisition when you're first learning. When you're starting, you'd want to stick with what you're doing in the textbook and get most of the way through the book before you start looking at actual texts.

[Anonymous No.23370213]

>>23370207
Very informative, thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for. How long do you think it takes to get the basic Qal/Hiphil permutation knowledge, just enough to read Torah? I ask because I have a Torah that has all words annotated at the bottom of the page, at least for words that aren't highly common and easy to memorize beforehand. I am fine with basically cheating my way through the text by using these annotations for vocabulary. What I would really like is to have just the bare minimum verb-decoding ability to be able to tell what's (basically) going on in a sentence, what form the verb is in. If I have to rely on a dictionary for every single actual word meaning I don't care, beyond that.

Is the Qal/Hiphil/etc stuff at least highly regular, once you do learn it?

[Anonymous No.23370250]

>>23370213
So, to start, there are five main stems, Qal, Niphal, Hiphil, Piel, and Hitpael, with meanings of Future/Present/Modal, Passive, Causative, Intensive, and Reflexive. It should be remembered that they're not all exact and cleanly set out, and sometimes can have overlap, or certain words can only occur in a particular stem. I've been taking Hebrew in an academic setting, three times a week, and I've been at it for two semesters, with a fairly solid command of the basic stuff, able to get through Jonah with mostly just vocab and idiomatic help. Of course, "wild" Hebrew that you see in the actual Bible is gonna look weird, and will have irregular forms, but a lot of it is fairly regular. It's just that there are a lot of "regular exceptions" to words, stuff that deviates from the usual pattern, but does so in a predictable manner. For instance, verbs with an א will usually see some sort of vowel shift, and even verbs with a stative meaning will look different from other verbs. But those are largely predictable. At the same time, wild Hebrew has some just plain exceptional forms that you can't expect, things like pausal exceptions or syntactical variation. Those are times when you might have to hope that you can figure out the root, and guess from there. Here's an example of something that we had for review, where you have a real verbal form on the right, and the root on the left. Could I see what your Torah looks like? I've got a Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, which provides some annotation, but not really.

To get to the point of your question, it all depends on how much time you're willing to dedicate, but it takes a minute. Hebrew is a really rewarding language, but it's not the easiest thing in the world. Then again, is any language easy?

[Anonymous No.23370264]

>>23370213
>>23370250
And I suppose I didn't really answer the other question, most of the verbal forms are pretty regular. Assuming no weird exceptional stuff, you can pretty well be able to find out what the stem and root is from most verbal forms

[Anonymous No.23370288]

>>23370250
Ah shit, whoops, I also fucked up. Qal is your simple stem that means the most basic form of a word, like "to judge" or "to kill." Future or past tense comes from case, not stem. So prefix or suffix or jussive or imperative or what have you will exist within the stem, and provide those meanings within that framework of meaning

[Anonymous No.23370366]

>>23368883
What's a good book for getting a handle on all these grammatical parts of speech? I took AP classes and three years of college English and we never once went over any of it, yet every language book just talks about it as though its something everyone knows! I'm getting KERFLUFFLED MAN!

[Anonymous No.23370399]

>>23370366
part of that is that it got completely de-emphasized in English education, but honestly just read any introduction to a Latin textbook and you'll pick up on it.

[Anonymous No.23370445]

>>23370366
I'd second Latin as an intro. Most of the foundational linguists were philologists focused on Greek and Latin, and those languages function almost as prototypes

[Anonymous No.23370948]

>>23370399
>>23370445
I'll give it a shot. I may pick up something like Cambridge's A Student's Introduction to English Grammar also, but it's bound to be a tiresome slog.

[Anonymous No.23370985]

>>23368893
I'm not touching on that. What I was touching on is the fact that that anon (maybe you) was trying to make it seem as if it were an extraneous thing (>>>/pol/, i.e. a different place) whereas in fact it has always been site culture.
I also totally disagree with your milquetoast generic TV morality, but I'm not here to discuss that (that would be what /pol/ is for, and I don't use that, because I don't like to). However, what I would not want to see, and I do see quite often, is either literal or spiritual newfags with absolutely nothing of value to say implicitly or explicitly proselytize normalfag values AS IF they somehow belonged to the in-group here, i.e. as a sort of consensus-rigging. Now I get that that's the only context in which those values even exist at all (virtue signalling), and that you're totally habituated to being entirely surrounded by fellow inauthentic drones who hold your communal opinions, but I for one would like to hear what people (provided they're not retarded) have to say without some boring nerd shouting them down as if they own the place.

[Anonymous No.23371142]

>>23370207
OP here, should I add this book to the FAQ?

[Anonymous No.23371264]

>>23365887
>judge blacks on the content of their character
>find them despicable
now what

[Anonymous No.23371316]

Hello, I've just finished a first year greek course (final exam was yesterday), and am wondering where to go from here. we were using JACT but didn't finish it, only got to about chapter 13. Do i just try and read original texts with supports now, or should I go back over textbooks and completely finish one?

[Anonymous No.23371358]

>>23371316
both

[Anonymous No.23371369]

>>23371142
I think that if there's gonna be a section on Hebrew books, that's definitely the textbook to put in there. Hacket was the premier Hebraist at Harvard for a good while, and her book is universally acclaimed as one of the best introductions to Biblical Hebrew out there, whatsoever. I'd also recommend pic related as a very good dictionary, it's root based, but it contains, I think, every root and proposed root in the language, and oftentimes gives helpful information about where particular forms occur.

[Anonymous No.23371383]

>>23371142
I'd also recommend that, if anyone wants to get a full text of the Bible, they get the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. It's built primarily off the Masoretic manuscript, but it also incorporates other manuscripts when there are differences and footnotes where such differences occur, highlighting if it was likely a scribal error, a corruption, or something along those lines. They're coming out with a fifth edition soon, I wanna say it's bringing in Dead Sea Scrolls material to show difference, but don't quote me on that. In any event, I have the fourth edition, and it's still quite nice, and is gonna be more economical for people. Still, you don't really need the full text or the dictionary until you've gone a lot of the way through Hacket, she provides good exercises at the end of every chapter based on vocab which she has provided.

[Anonymous No.23371422]

μέλει γὰρ ἀνδρί, μὴ γυνὴ βουλευέτω,
τἄξωθεν· ἔνδον δ᾽ οὖσα μὴ βλάβην τίθει.
ἤκουσας ἢ οὐκ ἤκουσας, ἢ κωφῇ λέγω;

cūrae enim sunt virō, mulier ea nē cūrātō,
quae foris gerantur; domī vērō sēsē continēns damnī nihil inferat.
audistī an nōn audisti, an cum surdīs loquor?

What goes on outside of the home is the man's concern,
may no woman take part in this; but in the house is your place and not to cause trouble.
Have you heard me or not? or do I speak to the deaf?

[Anonymous No.23371432]

μέλει γὰρ ἀνδρί, μὴ γυνὴ βουλευέτω,
τἄξωθεν· ἔνδον δ᾽ οὖσα μὴ βλάβην τίθει.
ἤκουσας ἢ οὐκ ἤκουσας, ἢ κωφῇ λέγω;

cūrae enim sunt virō, mulier ea nē cūrātō,
quae foris gerantur; domī vērō sēsē continēns damnī nihil inferat.
audistī an nōn audisti, an cum surdā loquor?

What goes on outside of the home is the man's concern,
may no woman take part in this; but in the house is your place and not to cause trouble.
Have you heard me or not? or do I speak to the deaf?

[Anonymous No.23371441]

So I have to take a second language course for two semesters at my college for the liberal arts program. I'm 28 so I don't want to start learning something I don't already have a background in. If I intend to go on to law school is taking Latin a better choice over Greek?

studied both in high school. My heart says Greek as I'm a huge Hellenophile, but Latin seems much more practical for my goals

[Anonymous No.23371467]

>>23371441
Latin will help a tiny bit more but the difference is negligible. I say go with your heart.
You will learn all the Latin phrases necessary for law in law school.

[Anonymous No.23371484]

>>23371467
that's good to know! Have friends who are pursuing law and medicine and are ESL and it makes me physically cringe how they need to rote memorize everything to pass. Took one healthcare adjacent course this last semester and the nursing student in my study group literally jaw dropped when I showed her how you can just decode medical terminology from it's Greek roots. Cannot even imagine going into professional work without having a solid basis in Latin and Greek

[Anonymous No.23371535]

>>23370250
>>23370264
Thanks again fren, maybe I just have to bite the bullet with it then.

The annotated one I have isn't anything fancy, it's the Reader's Hebrew Bible. I was also considering just a plain interlinear with transliteration of the Hebrew (although I can read the characters, at least when they have biblical diacritics that is).

[Anonymous No.23371543]

>>23371484
Almost went into law here, you will have lots of small but perhaps iteratively/occasionally significant opportunities to look like a bigbrain around lawyers if you happen to know the actual Latin meanings of all those fancy terms

Lawyers always pronounce them with a retard accent and slightly skew what they mean, so you can be the guy in the room who (without looking like a knowitall douche) actually knows the stuff. But that's pretty minor and you can do that without really knowing latin

I think you should just learn the one you like better, and then learn both ultimately. Greek is pure rote memorization for the first 1-2 semesters though.

[Anonymous No.23371587]

>>23371543
my grampa taught me the basics of Koine in HS so I'm hoping I'll be able to test out ahead

[Anonymous No.23371617]

>>23371535
I think you might need to, even with vocab assistance, verbal forms tend to be so funky that you really are gonna want to know how the stems and cases work.
I'll confess a lack of familiarity with the Reader's Hebrew Bible, but I don't doubt that it's helpful. I would, however, not recommend an interlinear, even if it's just for transliteration, as really learning the language is gonna be dependent on putting it together yourself, and if you have a translation beside you, you'll be primed to cheat. And for transliteration, Hebrew transliteration is not an exact science, and often loses some of the meaning. For instance, I could tell you a word gets translated as diber, but you wouldn't know if that's supposed to be דִבֶּר, דִּבֵּר, דִבֱּר, דִיבֶּר, דִיבֵּר, דִיבֱּר , and while some of those don't exist as real forms, some of them do, and have different meanings. So I'd really most recommend just having the Hebrew text and maybe a dictionary beside you.

Still, Hebrew is a great language, I love it to death and I'd recommend it to anybody with a passing interest. Again, start with Hacket's basic intro, and work through at least the majority of that first. And don't be discouraged if it feels like you're taking a while to get to real sentences, you need to have an understanding of the basics to get anywhere

[Anonymous No.23372557]

>>23371369
>>23371383
added the main book and dictionary in the online resources section

[Anonymous No.23373172]

>>23370102
BENE
SCRIBITO OMNES DECLINATIONES IDENTIDEM DECEM PER HORAS, AGE

[Anonymous No.23373192]

how are latin-only fags not the untouchables of /clg/?
I swear, if I have to read another "joke" about LLPSI or the bald man...

[Anonymous No.23373207]

Learning Classical Dothraki

[Anonymous No.23373258]

My goal to start is to read Poetics in Greek since it's short and I'm already very familiar with it. Is the Reading Greek series good? Reddit says so but I don't trust them. Also, what's a realistic time-frame to accomplish this from zero? I am too retarded for the captcha so keep that in mind

[Anonymous No.23373382]

>>23373258
Reading Greek is a good advanced-level reader after Athenaze or Logos, but realistically you can probably struggle through Poetics skipping the JACT text after one of those.

[Anonymous No.23373395]

>>23373192
Latin is unique in the West in that it's the only classical language people (a majority even) will study without a specific interest in its literature
I'm glad something like that exists but there is a difference in quality of post. I wish we had interesting discussion of Latin authors more often, because I am fond of their sharp style. There really isn't much else like it.

[Anonymous No.23373407]

>>23373395
part of that is that it's the only one taught in schools.

[Anonymous No.23373418]

>>23373395
Then who're your favorite Latin authors? Personally, I'm a big fan of Virgil when I want something serious, Propertius when I want something more emotional, and Plautus when I want a good laugh. I think that the Aeneid is probably the greatest thing ever written, and that probably makes Virgil the best poet of all time, but Propertius might be a personal favorite, because it can be easier to relate to. Virgil can certainly be relatable at times, but while he certainly makes you feel the emotion, it's not always as visceral as Propertius' emotionality, much of the time Virgil feels like he's trying to paint a picture which you derive meaning from, whereas Propertius is very purposefully putting the reader in his own shoes and forcing you to feel his emotions.

[Anonymous No.23373429]

>>23373418
NTA but the more Plautus I read, the more I love reading his plays.

[Anonymous No.23373480]

>>23373429
I read Miles Gloriousus a while back, and I just couldn't stop laughing. I should work on another one of his soon, I might see about that this summer

[Anonymous No.23373545]

>>23373480
I've recently read the Poenulus, and it's a riot.

[Anonymous No.23373550]

>>23373407
It's not the only one taught in schools but it's certainly the default. Personally I blame the British boarding school tradition, wherein Latin grammar was traditionally the most important subject, with Latin literature very far behind if present at all.

>>23373418
I read Greek and Chinese for poetry and Latin for the historians. The biting Roman wit, I think, strengthens history where I find it to cheapen anything in verse. I adore Ovid and Propertius as human poets, but the Greek and Chinese traditions are divine.

[Anonymous No.23373728]

>>23371264
Quit larping, that's what. You don't even know 20 black people. Quit clowning. Quit off-topic posting.

[Anonymous No.23373732]

>>23370985
No one cares, old fag. Stfu.

[Anonymous No.23373774]

>>23373550
I'll confess to never having looked at Chinese poetry, and Greek works only in translation. I keep wanting to try my hand at some Greek, but this or that comes up, and I find it's more practicable to work on maintaining languages which I already know than to start work on entirely new ones. Still, the translations of Greek works have certainly been enjoyable, I've read some Theocritus, Mimnermus, and others, with those two probably being my favorite. Idyll 2 in particular was quite enjoyable, and I really felt for Simaetha

[Anonymous No.23373947]

>>23373418
Juvenal
Cicero
Catullus
Ovid

[Anonymous No.23373963]

>>23373728
I grew up in the East Bay in a bad (black) neighborhood. Went to high school there, went to community college there, went to uni in SF. My interactions with blacks, and there have been thousands, are overwhelmingly negative.
>off-topic posting
Like you did to start this? Funny how it is off topic when you disagree.
I hope, and I mean this from the depths of my soul, that you, your family, friends and loved ones all have to live in black neighborhoods.

[Anonymous No.23373997]

>>23373963
talk about a language and stop being a nigger.

[Anonymous No.23374016]

>>23373997
You first
>>23373947 is me
If you care so much about off-topic posting then stop making off topic posts

[Anonymous No.23374023]

It's really hard to translate when you're drunk.

[Anonymous No.23374647]

>>23373732
>some boring nerd shouting them down as if they own the place

[Anonymous No.23375235]

It's the weekend. What are you reading?
My goal is to finish my annotation of the wedding of Nala and Damayanti either today or tomorrow. I have the spare time right now and won't again for a very long time.

[Anonymous No.23375361]

>>23375235
Just rocking through a little of the Aeneid to keep in practice. Might crack open the ol Bible tomorrow and take a look at Samuel if I'm feeling up to it, but probably gonna focus on Latin this weekend

[Anonymous No.23375457]

Can anyone recommend a decent Latin dictionary, preferably with etymologies? My shitty Collins-Gem isn't really doing it for me anymore and I don't want to have to get on Wiktionary whenever I need to look up a word

[Anonymous No.23375462]

>>23375457
https://philolog.us/

[Anonymous No.23375522]

>>23373947
Man, I haven't read any Cicero since high school. I should take a look at one of his speeches sometime

[Anonymous No.23375732]

>>23369660
Toki Pona is a conlang, it's not germane to the discussion, which is about natural human languages. (Though I've observed it to be remarkably flexible for its small size, bu not equal to natural languages.) But Tok Pisin? Sure, if I spoke it natively or otherwise fluently at a high level I'd be happy to continue the discussion in it. It's not a pidgin anymore, it's a creole.

[Anonymous No.23375742]

>>23369911
Some variant of the golden rule shows up in pretty much every religion and ethical system in the world. Would you like to be hated and discriminated against on the basis of your race?

[Anonymous No.23375758]

>>23370366
Honestly, something like Schoolhouse Rock or other primary school materials wouldn't be a bad start for getting an idea of English's parts of speech- obviously there are some simplifications for children, but as far as I can tell they tend to give more or less a decent idea. That said, input is generally more important than explicit understanding of grammatical rules; at most, the latter can help speed up the ability to make use of the former.
>>23370445
On the other hand, some linguists today have criticized the analytical categories used for languages as too influenced by Latin, and by European languages in general, though if you're actually trying to learn Latin then there's nothing wrong with Latin-influenced grammatical categories obviously.

[Anonymous No.23375775]

>>23370985
As I said, the golden rule- and would YOU like to be hated and discriminated against for your race?- isn't just the morality of "normal" people in my specific culture, it shows up in some form in pretty much every religious and ethical system.
>>23371264
Individuals are individuals, not representatives of their race. If more of the black people you happen to have met are bad or annoying people, then that's your experience, but it's not fair to hate other black people you've never met and know nothing about the character of based on it, as if people's character was determined by their race. (That's not to say there's no possibility that the genetics of different populations could have any impact whatsoever on the brain, which is after all built entirely by genes, but that if there is it's on the order of broad statistical trends in tweaked variables on the same basic mind design- complex adaptations within a sexually-reproducing species must necessarily be universal.)

[Anonymous No.23375787]

>>23371484
You can also expressly learn Latin and Greek roots as used in English technical terminology without actually knowing Latin and Greek as ful languages. That said, the unanalyzability of English's technical terminology to the average speaker is one of the better arguments for Anglish, it seems to me.

[Anonymous No.23375908]

>>23375758
>On the other hand
Maybe a fair point, but my prior experience with Latin makes my learning other languages an easier endeavor, because I feel that basic grammatical ideas are explained with some clarity in Latin, as opposed to other languages. For instance, I better understand what a construct chain does, creates a genitive relationship, because I know what a genitive case is. If I didn't understand a genitive case from Latin, then I'd just go "a construct chain means 'of,'" which isn't necessarily wrong, but also doesn't really explain what it grammatically does. Of course, at the same time, some people will be better served in other ways, but I find that an understanding of Latin makes understanding other languages better because the terms used to describe languages were created by people who initially liked Latin in a lot of cases. And maybe you could argue that that's not a good thing, per se, but it's a little late now to change it.

Also Latin is the best language ever

[Anonymous No.23375919]

>>23375908
>but my prior experience with Latin makes my learning other languages an easier endeavor
I would ask which particular languages? For Indo-European languages (and languages significantly influenced by them, like Hungarian) Latin grammar categories are mostly at least not a terrible fit, but for anything more exotic it kind of falls apart.

[Anonymous No.23375967]

>>23375919
Hebrew is the main other one which I've been looking at. I've also dabbled in Italian and Welsh, and I really want to get started on Greek, but I'm lazy

[Anonymous No.23376361]

>>23375235
been kinda busy in the last two-three days and didn't read much, hope I'll have some time to keep going through Plutarch

[Anonymous No.23376663]

>>23375457
https://latin-dict.github.io/

[Anonymous No.23376744]

>>23367176
I would call 1400s late middle French, Classical French then. The correct term is Old French for it’s beginning of when the French was spoken. It would be like if I called Old Norse Classical Scandinavian, or Primitive/Archaic Irish Classical Gaelic.

[Anonymous No.23376801]

>>23371617
ḏiybĕr, ḏiybēr, ḏiyber, ḏibĕr, dibēr, ḏiber
I don't think these forms really exist by the way. The complexities behind the articulation of "shva" is what's more troublesome.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1696.htm

[Anonymous No.23376836]

>Old Norse, Coptic, Gothic, OCS?
>No, thank you!

>Japanese, from the early 1800s.
>why, yes this is acceptable on/to post on /clg/!

[Anonymous No.23376855]

>>23376836
If anyone ever argued against Old Norse, Coptic, Gothic, and OCS on /clg/, they were wrong too.
It benefits us to adopt a broad definition of classical language. Seeing as Latin will likely always be the most popular language here and the same discussions about it seem to repeat quite a bit, a broad definition keeps discussion here novel for all of us.

[Anonymous No.23376860]

>>23376836
Latin, Ancient Greek, and Classical Chinese from the early 1800s is still allowed here

[Anonymous No.23376892]

>>23376855
>benefits us to adopt a broad definition of classical language

Utterly incorrect. I stopped seriously posting here when those jokers brought up Esperanto and called Arabic classical.

[Anonymous No.23376900]

>>23376892
Esperanto should absolutely be excluded. We all know why without getting into semantics.
Classical Arabic is not only classical, but one of the five great languages of the world in that oft-cited Sapir quote. It's sad to me in fact that we don't really see any arabicposting here.

[Anonymous No.23376908]

>>23376855
I was just shitposting to be frank. I got bitched out threads months back for talking about old Celtic languages like Archaic Irish and Dark Age Welsh. Seeing people not do the same to pre-Meiji Japanese made me want to call it out a bit, because of there being actual interesting and true languages from Antiquity, like Sanskrit, and the Medieval era, like Norse; and the fact they didn’t say anything out of being crypto-weebs. I do like how this place has lobbed Sanskrit with the Greek and Latin. And has accepted more religious languages like Ancient Persian, Aramaic, Quranic Arabic, Biblical Hebrew and Pali. I still see and comprehend why Greek and of course Latin would be the big two though, as they are the most influential languages of Humanity and culture, and are similar. Apologies for the blog post.

[Anonymous No.23376914]

>>23376900
What are the five great languages and what is the Sapir quote?

[Anonymous No.23376915]

>>23376900
>Classical Arabic is not only classical

Not even close. For one,it emerges in the medieval and not the classical,and for two there's nothing good written in it originally. The Quran is obviously d tier at best.

[Anonymous No.23376943]

>>23376914
This gets posted here constantly.

>>23376915
Obviously not classical in terms of a "classical era," but that would effectively restrict us to Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, and Vedic Sanskrit forever. I believe this thread is more interesting as a classical philology thread more broadly, especially since those languages will naturally be most prominent anyway.
>there's nothing good written in it originally
Matter of opinion. Plenty of people fail to see the beauty in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew too.

[Anonymous No.23376971]

>>23376900
>It's sad to me in fact that we don't really see any arabicposting here.
I've been getting into Semitic languages moreso lately, but I feel that my energies would be sooner directed towards something like Babylonian or Egyptian than to Arabic. It's a gorgeous language to be sure, just not my particular field of focus

[Anonymous No.23376972]

>>23375457
Liddell-Scott

[Anonymous No.23376974]

>>23375732
>>23375742
Not classical languages
fuck off troon

[Anonymous No.23376977]

>>23375775
Not classical languages
Go back wherever you came from, go dilate

[Anonymous No.23376979]

>>23376972
Maybe you didn't hear about it, you been away a long time, they didn't tell you, I'm just regular sized Scott now.

[Anonymous No.23376980]

>>23376971
For sure study what you want to study. "oh but there's an opening on /clg/" is a terrible reason to pick up a language.
If anything I ought to build on my Arabic: I have fairly conversational Egyptian Arabic because of a former roommate. It's just not been on my list of priorities. I adore the sound of the language but have no feeling of closeness with its tradition.

[Anonymous No.23376989]

>another argument about what constitutes a classical language
Don't you all have some studying to do?

[Anonymous No.23377014]

>>23376989
>Welcome to medieval languages general
>Where we study proto Indo European and Han chinese

[Anonymous No.23377032]

>>23377014
Incoherent post. Go back to reading.

[Anonymous No.23377137]

>>23376943
Hebrew is a medieval reconstruction of Aramaic. Aramaic is the classical language, then Syriac. And there's no opinion about Arabic being irrelevant. Look at the outputs: nearly everything important written in the Muslim world is in some dialect of Persian. Over the last few decades the amount of publishing in print of the entire Arabic world is rivalled by the Dutch alone. There are no technical or mathematical contributions provided by them. Their golden age myth is based on Persians copy/pasting Greek manuscripts. Totally useless.

[Anonymous No.23377153]

>>23377137
Biblical Hebrew antedates Aramaic

[Anonymous No.23377157]

Don't reply to the schizo

[Anonymous No.23377163]

>>23377153
It actually does not. "Biblical" Hebrew doesn't appear until the Masoretes. Supposed that you think the Dead Sea Scrolls are real, and there's all evidence that they are not, then the first OT was still written in Koine Greek. Not even older classical or Homeric, but Koine. The Masoretic texts come from the 9th century and that's the language of actual Hebrew.

The problem is that Israeli historians insist that Phoenician, Canaanite, Assyrian, and even Egyptian at times all magically are Hebrew but then aren't when discussed by secular historians. No, Phoenician is not Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.23377168]

Do not reply to the schizo.

[Anonymous No.23377176]

>>23377168
Here's your first temple bro

[Anonymous No.23377186]

>>23377163
What about the Siloam inscription? Coinage? Paleo-Hebrew?

[Anonymous No.23377188]

>>23377186
Do not reply to the schizo

[Anonymous No.23377189]

>>23377186

[Anonymous No.23377191]

Most of the forgeries were outed as forgeries nearly two centuries ago or thereabout

[Anonymous No.23377192]

>>23377189
Source?

[Anonymous No.23377193]

>>23377163
we reconstruct phoenician based on Hebrew. Have you talked to an actual philologist? Most of the West Semitic languages are pretty similar.

[Anonymous No.23377194]

>>23377186
>Paleo-Hebrew?
I repeat: Phoenician is not Hebrew. Arameans introduced an Assyrian dialect into the region. That's Aramaic. Hebrews as a people do not exist until the Maccabean period.

[Anonymous No.23377201]

>>23377193
>we reconstruct phoenician based on Hebrew.
The other way around. The Phoenician inscriptions are the oldest by far. Hebrew doesn't show up until the medieval period, and it's a clear attempt to recapture the size of the earlier Aramaic language. Phoenician artifacts actually predate those largely defined as Canaanite. David probably did not exist either as the region was being colonized by three foreign cultures in the middle of a cultural collapse period making a golden age impossible.

[Anonymous No.23377206]

>>23377201
Read some actual scholarship you actual faggot.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/528483
This is about Punic but the point remains.

[Anonymous No.23377209]

>>23377206
>This is about Punic
How many times do you have to be told Hebrew is not Phoenician?

[Anonymous No.23377211]

>>23377209
Phoenician is canaanite. They are just the Northern dialects.

[Anonymous No.23377215]

>>23377211
Extremely debatable. The Phoenicians are likely the Europeans who invaded as the Sea Peoples. Their religion reflects European religion.

[Anonymous No.23377216]

>>23377209
I will now ask: what makes Hebrew distinct for you form other languages with similarly damaged corpora? Why are other languages to be considered blips that came and went leaving dim echoes, while we are to assume Hebrew was totally constructed in the medieval period, a linguistic event without parallel if true?

[Anonymous No.23377219]

Are you stupid? Don't reply to the schizo. None of you should need to be told this.

[Anonymous No.23377226]

>>23377216
>a linguistic event without parallel if true?

WTF are you talking about? This happens all the time. France is a top-down deviation based on a newly formalized conscious attempt at their version of late Latin trends. The difference is that westerners are honest about their historical precedent and others feel the need to LARP. And it wasn't constructed, it was reconstructed from Aramaic. Hebrew fits inside of Aramaic like a small rectangle fits into a larger square.

[Anonymous No.23377231]

>Being part of a language family invalidates a language's status as a language
Do not reply to the schizo.

[Anonymous No.23377232]

>>23377226
What other languages are recent fictitious historical constructions? Is English included?

[Anonymous No.23377236]

>>23377231
Calling Aramaic Hebrew is like calling Latin French based on a text that purports an ancient powerful French empire in modern France and Occitania. The history of the mighty French chosen by the great g-d Napol must be told.

>>23377232
English is an example of how languages get reiterated in a new form. The thing is, the English know that they emerged in the 11th century, breaking from a greater Germanic substrate. The Israelis are trying to pass of Phoenicians, Canaanites, and Assyrians as if they were Hebrews when there is no good evidence of Hebrews at all and enormous evidence against them existing. It's actual cultural appropriation. There's actually no room for an Israel or a Judah to exist when they purport. Therefore, the correct language is Aramean, spread by the Arameans who departed from Assyria.

[Anonymous No.23377260]

>>23377226
What is your stance on Sanskrit? There are Vedic texts obviously from a different period of the language with significantly different grammar and significantly irregular forms from which Classical Sanskrit could be derived but not vice-versa, but the oldest physical texts are newer than the oldest Classical inscriptions, which are themselves newer than Prakrit inscriptions. Does uneven preservation of physical texts, even when the language itself being preserved was clearly not a vernacular, always imply "LARPing"? Or only in this case?

[Anonymous No.23377261]

>>23377236
So who are the people calling themselves Jews, and what is to be done with them?

[Anonymous No.23377282]

>>23377260
I do not know enough about Sanskrit to say one way or the other.

>>23377261
They are neo-rabbinicalists. The last Jews broke off into two sects: The racialists like the Pharisees (which means "separatist") were destroyed with the last Sanhedrin in the 5th century AD (the other sect of Jews are the Christians). The rabbinicalists pick up in the 9th century AD with the Masoretic school, which attempted to form a culture based on the first five books of the OT and go from there. The neo-rabbinicalists are what exist today. They're what happened when the rabbinics realized there's no consistency in their belief system after a millennium of far-flung local rabbis making up their own nonsense (abrogating previous religious laws).

>What is to be done with them

Corrected whenever they post their anti-historical narratives in /lit/ and /his/.

[Anonymous No.23377298]

>>23377282
You know a lot about this topic. Where did you learn all this? Any reading recs?

[Anonymous No.23377338]

>>23377298
There's too much to list. Starting with the classic authors was the way for me. I always found it strange that the Greeks don't rave about the super powers of Israel and Judah when they should have. The only real answer is that they didn't exist. It isn't until after the Maccabean revolt that we see anything solid.

[Anonymous No.23377367]

>>23377338
So then the Septuagint is the original and the names are all Aramaic? And any distinctive features are just small aramaic variants?

[Anonymous No.23377882]

>>23375775
Now, you should realize, if you haven't yet, that the caveat you add in parentheses about racial differences, which is factually unobjectionable, would have you slandered and cast out in normal circles. I personally was not advocating for "hating random people (on account of this or that, be it race or whatever else)", but recognizing the reality of race, which is, again, quite unobjectionable, will get you grouped in with those types 99/100 times anyway. It goes similarly when one acknowledges macro-scale societal or cultural benefits to homogeneity (which are also quite unobjectionable), such as that anon might have meant when he implied Japan's racism might not be a bad thing -- implying, thereby, that said racism might have positive societal consequences in contrast to the current swathe of problems the west suffers.
Criticism of racism in the narrow definition, such as you rightly offer, suffers from the fact that it is practically never separated or even honestly truly separable from "racism" in the broad definition, which, like it or not, includes the simple acknowledgement of a number of (taboo) facts.

>inb4 off topic
yeah whatever bro ban me

[Anonymous No.23377886]

>>23375787
NTA but I agree completely on your last point. The same thought has occurred to me before. There's a very stark contrast of versatility between the structures of languages using mostly their own inherent vocabulary (German, or basically any ancient language) and, especially, English.

[Anonymous No.23378338]

kek it's not good old /clg/ without a periodic schizo meltdown

[Anonymous No.23378427]

>>23376892
No one here has claimed Esperanto is a classical language, except maybe as a joke.

[Anonymous No.23378433]

>>23376915
"Classical" has other meanings besides the ~millennium centered on the birth of Christ. Is classical music from the time of the Roman Empire? I don't hear you bitching about that.

[Anonymous No.23378446]

>>23376915
>it emerges in the medieval
Not true, Old Arabic is attested as far back as the -8th century, and even non-old Arabic is attested as early as 328.

[Anonymous No.23378510]

>>23378427
Esperantists are incredibly deluded, I wouldn't be surprised if one of them ever claimed that the writings of Zamenhof constitute the corpus of "classical Esperanto".

[Anonymous No.23378513]

>>23378446
>-8th century

[Anonymous No.23378525]

>>23378513
What should I call it? "BCE" and "CE" are trying to secularwash something with Christian origins and pretend it's neutral when it isn't, but "BC" and "AD" are not only acknowledging it's based on the (estimated, now known to be probably wrong) date of the birth of Jesus, but calling him "Christ" and "Lord", which I as a non-believer don't especially want to do.

[Anonymous No.23378539]

>>23378525
you're using dates in the gregorian calendar which is also inherently religious
I would stop worrying and use bce/ce which is the standard in academia, the calendar issue is blown out of proportion

[Anonymous No.23378549]

>>23378539
How about we just use BCE/CE but say it stands for before christian epoch/christian epoch? (Or in line with the thread theme we could count in years AUC.)

[Anonymous No.23378835]

Motion to ban all non-white languages from the thread

[Anonymous No.23378856]

>>23378835
Good luck getting /pol/tards to agree on who's white.

[Anonymous No.23378859]

This thread has become pure cancer since I left. "Oppose racism" this and that, people seriously defending putting allah akbar on the same level as latin, way more. It's gotten derailed and everyone knows it. You can make your own thread for mutt conlangs. Return this thread to being latin and greek and white languages only. Not white = not classical.

[Anonymous No.23378863]

>>23378856
Nice try khazar

[Anonymous No.23378869]

>>23378863
Okay but you do realize that they don't in fact agree?

[Anonymous No.23378900]

>>23378869
It's obvious which languages are classics to the white european races. Basically no muslim chink or pajeet shit mixing with Cicero. It's ugly.

[Anonymous No.23378903]

>>23378900
If you want to have a thread for just European classical languages, go start your own. This thread is for all classical languages.

[Anonymous No.23378909]

don't reply to the schizo, he has to chimp out every now and then

[Anonymous No.23378922]

>>23378903
I take offense to calling other languages classical, and I know I'm not the only one who's left because of it. We want this thread back, and you can make your own "non-western" thread if you really want (good luck getting anyone interested)

[Anonymous No.23378927]

>>23378856
Ethiopia

[Anonymous No.23378929]

Classics = what you study for a degree in Classical Philology in the UK, Commonwealth, or respectable schools in the US. There is no self-respecting program that accepts Chinese or classical Haitian Creole or whatever. There is Sinology and there are Caribbean Studies and other Grievance Studies, and you are welcome to make your own thread for those, but stop misappropriating things.

[Anonymous No.23378931]

>>23378922
The usage is well-established. "Classical Chinese", for instance, is attested from the early 20th century.

[Anonymous No.23378938]

>>23378931
Good luck fulfilling your language requirement for a decent classics degree with that. At best you will have a lovely party trick. I am not saying you are not free to discuss this elsewhere but give us our thread back, this has become tiresome

[Anonymous No.23378942]

>>23378938
this thread has always been and will always be about all classical languages in a broad sense, you can stop coping and throwing feces in my thread now and feel free to go back to /his/

[Anonymous No.23378943]

>>23378938
No one is stopping you from discussing Latin and Greek.

[Anonymous No.23378954]

>>23378942
>>23378943
This same argument would bring us to being Esperanto and HRT general in no time. Just because the presence of irrelevant material doesn't prevent us from discussing classical languages, that doesn't mean we should tolerate it.

[Anonymous No.23378960]

>>23378929
In Germany we call the program for Sanskrit Classical Indology. Pretending that Sanskrit and Classical Chinese are not classical languages is retarded and your "white" identity politics are tiring. You are dishonest and you know it, go to hell.

[Anonymous No.23378976]

>>23378960
>Classical Indology
As distinct from Classical Philology, for which you need Latin and Greek. Nobody is stopping you from founding your "Classical Indology" thread.

[Anonymous No.23378987]

>>23378976
Dude, this thread is literally Edition of the Three Kingdoms.

[Anonymous No.23378988]

>>23378976
Sanskrit is still a classical language and this general is called clg. You're the one who should leave, maybe start your own general.

[Anonymous No.23378995]

>>23378988
Go to a bookstore. The Latin and Greek books are in the Classics section, and the Indian and Chinese books are in the World section. Mix the two and you will get angry customers, or no customers. The same is happening in this thread.

[Anonymous No.23379001]

>>23378995
Words have different meanings in different contexts.

[Anonymous No.23379004]

>>23378995
you aren't even trying, this thread has been going absolutely smoothly and without troubles before you started using your feces as projectile weapons, fuck off

[Anonymous No.23379006]

>>23379001
>Usage Categories:
>1. Academic, Commercial, Colloquial
>2. 4chan.org/lit

[Anonymous No.23379041]

>>23379006
The Edward Sapir quote is from decades ago.

[Anonymous No.23379076]

>>23379041
Not him but how is that relevant? Also he was grossly exaggerating Arabic's influence. Chinese is probably underrated though. They had epics through every age going back to the classical and their technical as well as consumer outputs are decent overall.

[Anonymous No.23379154]

>>23379041
You aren't addressing my point. There is a definition of "classics" that everyone understands, and there is an arcane clg-jargon definition that you are trying to promote. Over time this will kill the thread. When is the last time we took in a new Latin learner, the original goal of these threads?

[Anonymous No.23379247]

>>23379076
>Also he was grossly exaggerating Arabic's influence.
Was he? You find extensive Arabic loans in a wide swath of languages.
>>23379154
The definition in question is not unique to /clg/, and the thread seems to be thriving just fine.

[Anonymous No.23379276]

>>23379247
Watch this space. /clg/ will die within a couple of months as orientalist troon esperantist circlejerkers drive away authentic interest in classical languages such as Greek and Latin.

[Anonymous No.23379293]

>>23378954
For as long as I've been a regular, /clg/ has tolerated discussion of any dead or extinct language with a significant corpus. Chagatay and Old Norse are in the rentry, Old French and Old English are sometimes discussed, whereas Esperanto is only ever mentioned to make fun of the so-called "Esperanto tranny", whom I never actually encountered. I think you're greatly overstating the risks of allowing Sanskrit and Chinese discussion here.

[Anonymous No.23379311]

>>23379293
Oh, I'm still here, I've just chilled out a bit. (Though I'd prefer "Esperanto anonette" if you must give me any sort of nickname.)

[Anonymous No.23379340]

Coward
>>23378868
>>23379130

[Anonymous No.23379346]

>>23379076
>Also he was grossly exaggerating Arabic's influence.
Big disagree, Arabic has been massively influential in most northern African languages, most Turkic languages, Indonesian/Muslim SEA languages, other African languages like Swahili, Urdu and Farsi, even Spanish
The Persian, the Malay, and the Turk (in Sapir's time, since then they have engaged in chuddy language purification) all cannot construct a sentence without resorting to Arabic

[Anonymous No.23379379]

>>23379311
I'll just call you Esperanto anon because sex is irrelevant in an online anonymous space about classical languages. Also, while I disagree with most of his post, I do agree that Esperanto discussion belongs on >>>/int/lang , not here.

[Anonymous No.23379384]

>>23379379
I never denied that. I don't think Esperanto discussion belongs here either. The only time I've brought it up in the past few threads was because someone else started it by making false statements about it.

[Anonymous No.23379611]

>>23378900
>>23378903
Best to just make it an Indo-European language thread.

[Anonymous No.23379692]

>>23379611
Indology is not classics.

[Anonymous No.23379723]

>>23379384
>I don't think Esperanto discussion belongs here either
Why not?

[Anonymous No.23379820]

this thread is clearly toast and I'll wait for then next one, but you fucking faggots have taken up more space arguing about what belongs in the thread than the chinese and indian posters take up. So shut your fucking mouths before I gouge out your eyes with a rusty spoon.

[Anonymous No.23379889]

>>23379820
I shitposted about it when the thread was younger, but that probably facilitated the off-topic discussion. Forgive my sins, Anon.

[Anonymous No.23379894]

>>23379692
I meant just A Indo-European thread in general would be better, cause the only really learnable and classic languages of Europe itself are Greek and Latin (just like here) along with tossing Classical of Indo-European would be just tossing Sanskrist (just like here now also) and maybe Hittite.

[Anonymous No.23379900]

>>23379723
It’s not older than 1800s and has no natural or authentic use in daily life or literature, as a constructed language of highly simply constuction and little faculty and intuition.

[Anonymous No.23379975]

>>23378525
>which I as a non-believer don't especially want to do
You must be brought to tears every time you have to say Wednesday or July
fucking insufferable faggot

[Anonymous No.23379976]

>>23378859
agreed
but it's too late, infestation is already set in

[Anonymous No.23379979]

>>23378903
kek that's how this general started years ago
either disingenuous or just stupid

[Anonymous No.23379998]

>>/lit/thread/15555429
>>/lit/thread/16529726
>>/lit/thread/19281510
>muh /clg/ was always diverse and inclusive

[Anonymous No.23380032]

>>23379998
anon, sanskrit is in one of those and in another there's classical chinese. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

[Anonymous No.23380171]

>>23379900
French is constructed too though. The academie' literally sat down, made the rules, and started pushing it as a replacement to Latin in the 15th century.

[Anonymous No.23380223]

>>23380171
By that logic most written languages are constructed. The difference is not the existence of the rules, but the rules existing as a prescribed version of a natural language, not one produced.

[Anonymous No.23380254]

>>23380223
>but the rules existing as a prescribed version of a natural language, not one produced.

This is precisely the problem in France, only three centuries before Esperanto. That means Esperanto is only ever three centuries away from becoming French in status.

[Anonymous No.23380257]

>>23375457
>My shitty Collins-Gem isn't really doing it for me anymore

I love Collins. It provides nuggets like this.

[Anonymous No.23380260]

>>23380254
Except French was spoken before construction and that construction was based on speech before and older written forms, which Esperanto was not. Which makes French authenic and natural, which Esperanto was not.

[Anonymous No.23380271]

>>23380257
What makes Collins so good? The French, German and Russian ones I have are so good compared to Oxford.

[Anonymous No.23380348]

>>23380032
read the thread titles, invasive insect
>is in one of those
Esperanto is in these threads, is it /clg/?

[Anonymous No.23380350]

>>23380254
Esperantist delusion at its finest

[Anonymous No.23380355]

>>23378539
>bce/ce which is the standard in academia

[Anonymous No.23380681]

>>23380171
Do Esperantists actually believe that the Academie invented the French language from top to bottom?
A French text from the 14th century was posted two threads ago, with orthography only marginally different from Modern French. What do you make of this?

[Anonymous No.23380722]

Between Old French and Hebrew, which is more epicsauce?

[Anonymous No.23381003]

Are the esperantists in the room with us right now?

[Anonymous No.23381040]

So, if I learn Ancient Greek and Koine Greek, will I be able to converse with modern Greeks, functionally, or is it like Old English to modern English?

[Anonymous No.23381061]

>>23381040
modern Greek is remarkably close all things considered i.e how long it has been, learning ancient allows me to partly understand things like wiki articles but only to a limited extent, and spoken modern Greek would make the biggest difference due to the phonology
there's a video of baldman attempting to have a conversation with a modern greek speaker

[Anonymous No.23381086]

>>23380350
I don't know Esperanto I'm just asking

>>23380260
>Which makes French authenic and natural, which Esperanto was not.

Evidence? Reading letters it looks like Latin was near universal until the 15th century.

[Anonymous No.23381088]

>>23378938
It's funny to see all you retards argue about what you should "allow" or "tolerate" here as if you had any way whatsoever about it. I could start posting about fucking chickens and there'd be absolutely nothing you can do to stop me.

[Anonymous No.23381106]

>>23381086
>Evidence? Reading letters it looks like Latin was near universal until the 15th century.
Jesus Christ you are so fucking stupid dude. Literally read anything. You've anti-educated yourself to the point where a peasant's intuitive understanding of linguistics is ten times better than yours. You should be too ashamed to post on the internet.

[Anonymous No.23381109]

>>23379998
One out of the three OPs you posted explicitly mentions Sanskrit. You didn't even bother to check what you cherry-picked.

[Anonymous No.23381122]

>>23381106
All I did was ask for evidence

[Anonymous No.23381227]

>>23381122
On the off-chance you're worth more than two words: The reason Latin was ubiquitous was because it was the learned western European lingua franca and only the learned wrote books (nevertheless, there are old French books going back way before the date you give); the conspicuousness of Latin in the medieval period does not rule out the existence of countless vernaculars (in fact, it requires it), which could be proven, for example, by looking at the dozens of non-standard French and French-adjacent dialects that existed and to some extent still exist today. Language change is not a conspiracy; there's absolutely zero chance Latin somehow existed unchanged for 1500 years until some guys decided to tweak it and that's how we ended up with a whole spectrum of Romance languages and dialects comprising dozens and dozens of separate tongues each with their own quirks -- in two words, open wikipedia.

[Anonymous No.23381318]

>>23381109
cherry-picked? Those are the earliest I could find.
I have no issue with Sanskrit, not sure why you think that is a gotcha.
Notice what isn't in the OP of the earliest threads - Chinese, Arabic, Old X, etc.
But whatever, enjoy your trash heap general

[Anonymous No.23381412]

>>23381318
You weren't the guy talking about banning non-white languages pajeet this and that?
There's no-one actually posting about Arabic except to mention that there's no-one posting about Arabic or to mention that Arabic is a classical language (which no one is posting about). I don't see the problem. Latin (spoken by a bunch of north Africans like st. Augustine, btw! and Lucian was Syrian!) still makes up like 50% of the thread. Excepting shitposts, that is.
I don't care either way, anyway.

[Anonymous No.23381458]

Why not make this thread limited to latin and greek. No chinese ebonics.

[Anonymous No.23381460]

>>23381412
Implying that berbers are brown is crazy !

[Anonymous No.23381500]

>>23381458
Why should we? My background is in Latin and Greek, and outside of a few posts about Old French every couple months when people happen to ask about it, these are literally all I discuss, and I've never felt hindered by Sanskrit, Chinese or Hebrew discussion.
I genuinely don't understand what your problem is. Is it Eurocentric autism about what constitutes a classical language—we coined the word, so Orientalists don't get to apply it to languages outside of Europe with similar influence in their respective regions? I just don't get it. You've derailed this thread from Latin and Greek discussion far more than the anons discussing Chinese poetry ever could.

[Anonymous No.23381526]

>Tunc scito esse te omnibus cupiditatibus solutuim cum eo perveneris, ut nihil deum roges, nisi quod rogare possis palam.

>Know that thou art freed from all desires when thou hast reached such a point that thou prayest to God for nothing except what thou canst pray for openly.

Whenever I start to feel like I get stoicism, Seneca drops some weird bullshit that makes no sense to me.

[Anonymous No.23381531]

>>23381500
All I'm saying is that we need separate threads. It's not that deep. I want a place where I only find latin and greek, this thread was like this before pajeets invasion.

[Anonymous No.23381547]

>>23381531
>we need separate threads
Why? Like I said, I don't feel hindered by Sanskrit or Chinese discussion at all.
>I want a place where I only find latin and greek
This general is about classical languages, not Latin and Greek only. The first thread here >>23379998 mentions Sanskrit in the OP.

[Anonymous No.23381581]

>>23381531
we don't, already tried, have fun bumping your zombie thread from page 10 every few hours and ending up like /lang/ on /int/
this thread has never been healthier aside from pathetic clowns like you shitting it up who probably don't even know a single classical language and at best dabble in it only to posture as "le classical western man"

[Anonymous No.23381596]

>>23381460
Arabic probably shouldn't be a problem then lmao

>>23381458
>why not less variegated content?
No.
Really, this thread already goes in circles, and people mostly have nothing interesting to say. Why on earth would you want to make the circles smaller? I've only read completely retarded plebeian opinions why thusfar. Do you even know either of those languages?

>>23381531
Are there two of you? The other one I just spoke to seems to include Sanskrit in his "based and redpilled" category and you seem not to. I honestly can't imagine this idea appeals to anyone but low internet-caste /pol/ posters who think no-one but white people ever created worthwhile culture while simultaneously refusing to consume any of it.

[Anonymous No.23381600]

classical chinese challenge: passage describing Korea from 明史.
easier:
朝鮮,箕子所封國也。漢以前曰朝鮮。始為燕人衛滿所據,漢武帝平之,置真番、臨屯、樂浪、玄菟四郡。漢末,有扶餘人高氏據其地,改國號曰高麗,又曰高句麗,居平壤,即樂浪也。已,為唐所破,東徙。後唐時,王建代高氏,兼併新羅、百濟地,徙居松岳,曰東京,而以平壤為西京。其國北鄰契丹,西則女直,南曰日本,元至元中,西京內屬,置東寧路總管府,盡慈嶺為界。
harder:
明興,王高麗者王顓。太祖即位之元年遣使賜璽書。二年送還其國流人。顓表賀,貢方物,且請封。帝遣符璽郎偰斯齎詔及金印誥文封顓為高麗國王,賜曆及錦綺。其秋,顓遣總部尚書成惟得、千牛衛大將軍金甲兩上表謝,并賀天壽節,因請祭服制度,帝命工部製賜之。惟得等辭歸,帝從容問:「王居國何為?城郭修乎?兵甲利乎?宮室壯乎?」頓首言:「東海波臣,惟知崇信釋氏,他未遑也。」遂以書諭之曰:「古者王公設險,未嘗去兵。民以食為天,而國必有出政令之所。今有人民而無城郭,人將何依?武備不修,則威弛;地不耕,則民艱於食;且有居室,無廳事,無以示尊嚴。此數者朕甚不取。夫國之大事,在祀與戎。茍闕斯二者,而徒事佛求福,梁武之事,可為明鑒。王國北接
契丹、女直,而南接倭,備禦之道,王其念之。」因賜之《六經》、《四書》、《通監》。自是貢獻數至,元旦及聖節皆遣使朝賀,歲以為常。

[Anonymous No.23381802]

>>23380348
Sanskrit is in the first thread's description.

[Anonymous No.23381865]

>>23363760
>haven't studied any greek in a year and a half and forgot much of it
What can I do to get back into it?

[Anonymous No.23381910]

>>23381865
read through athenaze and reading greek

[Anonymous No.23381916]

>>23381865
mmh, depending on your level rereading something familiar would probably be a good thing to do, lexicon will always be the most unforgiving part, otherwise you're gonna have to pick up some book to review grammar too

[Anonymous No.23382344]

>>23381061
Interesting. I'd like to see that.

[Anonymous No.23382384]

>>23380257
Yeah that's one of the only good parts about it, and it also gives Latin versions of personal names. The actual entries aren't anything special, not to mention that some of them were cut off or something during printing. It gets the job done, but it's not the best.

[Anonymous No.23382450]

>>23382344
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvfs5aCIy0g

[Anonymous No.23382488]

>>23382450
Dude...this is awesome. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.23382499]

>check up on /clg/
>its getting raided again and as always, the retards eat the bait right up

[Anonymous No.23382510]

>>23382499
periodic chimpouts(mostly by the same guy it seems or very few ones) are like the tide on /clg/, they come and go

[Anonymous No.23382532]

>>23363760
I know that this thread is kinda offtopic, but I wanna fucking kill Punics. Just smash their heads with hammer then smash their altars with my hammer. Then salt their land so nothing can grow again and they believe their superstitous malevolent dieties have lost their favor. No matter how many of their subpar children they have to cut open to try to appease their made up, fake bull-demon.

[Anonymous No.23382569]

>>23382532
Rome slowly died when there weren't more Punics to kill after PWIII

[Anonymous No.23382863]

>>23381458
The other languages can't survive on their own. Every time this thread has split theirs has died.
Much like the influx of third world leeches into first world countries the parasites of /clg/ have found their host. Latin/Greek threads would be just fine without them; they cannot survive without Latin/Greek. Note how simultaneous with their invasion came the usual canards
>racism bad
>/clg/ is for everyone
>/clg/ was always diverse
>it's better this way
>if you don't like it go somewhere else
straight out of (((some))) playbook
Note also that something similar is happening at the university level with Classics departments tripping over themselves and bending over backwards to prove they are as DEI approved as the rest of the Humanities

[Anonymous No.23382864]

>>23381802
Chinese is not

[Anonymous No.23382997]

>>23381227
>nevertheless, there are old French books going back way before the date you give

Perhaps but I cannot think of any.

>the conspicuousness of Latin in the medieval period does not rule out the existence of countless vernaculars (in fact, it requires it

This is not an intelligent thing to say.

>Language change is not a conspiracy; there's absolutely zero chance Latin somehow existed unchanged for 1500 years until some guys decided to tweak it

The Latin of the 16th century AD is coherent with the 2nd BC. You have not produced evidence.

[Anonymous No.23383003]

>>23381600
>Ching Chong bing bong
Was I close?

[Anonymous No.23383020]

alright guys I'm coming and I'm bringing my spoon. Prepare to become τυφλοὶ μαλακοί

[Anonymous No.23383129]

>>23382863
You are appealing to emotion. It's a fact that the earliest instance of /clg/ linked ITT mentioned Sanskrit.

[Anonymous No.23383170]

Anyway, I think no serious Latinist or Hellenist would have such a complete disregard for culture as to react this way to a Chinese text: >>23383003
I get that this is 4chan and you're probably learning these languages for superficial reasons, but please stop acting like baboons. You're making the rest of us look bad.

[Anonymous No.23383270]

>>23383129
Why do you keep bringing that up like it's some kind of gotcha? Every Classicist since the mid-1800's knows the importance of Sanskrit. I have never said anything about Sanskrit.
The fact remains a Sanskrit thread would not survive on its own. Neither would Classical Chinese or anything else. Latin/Greek would and did.
Feel free to prove me wrong by making a Sanskrit or Classical Chinese thread. You won't because it is doomed to failure.

[Anonymous No.23383283]

>>23383170
>you don't loooove chinese stuff?
>well you must hate Rome

lmfao get over yourself

[Anonymous No.23383299]

>>23383283
Impressive reading comprehension

[Anonymous No.23383306]

>>23383270
>Feel free to prove me wrong by making a Sanskrit or Classical Chinese thread. You won't because it is doomed to failure
Why would I, a Latinist/Hellenist, do that? Can't wrap your head around the fact that your little crusade is making some of us wince?

[Anonymous No.23383329]

>>23383306
kek now who's appealing to emotion?
Latin/Greek threads can survive by themselves
Other language threads cannot
Thank you for admitting to this fact

[Anonymous No.23383334]

>>23383329
I never cared to argue otherwise. It's a non sequitur to claim that because a Sanskrit general wouldn't survive by itself, Sanskrit doesn't belong on /clg/.

[Anonymous No.23383336]

>>23383329
>Latin/Greek threads can survive by themselves
Then start one on your own?

[Anonymous No.23383352]

>>23383299
Okay fine I was acting like a baboon. But really, who expects a classical Chinese inscription to be translated here? The challenge is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.23383377]

>>23383352
Kek you're alright anon.
>who expects a classical Chinese inscription to be translated here?
I mean, there are a few CC learners here.

[Anonymous No.23383519]

You guys do know that this guy isn't learning any languages, right?

I'm pretty sure he's the same shitposter a long while back that would come in every thread and say languages were a waste of time. Right after people started ignoring him, the llpsi/wheelock arguments became a daily occurrence and eventually reached an unbearable crescendo to the point that a lot of people just completely abandoned /clg/. Now that people finally stopped taking his bald man b8 he has transitioned to gatekeeping and arguing with the only person that would reply to him (the Esperanto troon) over the classical nature of oriental languages, eventually drawing in more challengers from the rest of the thread. It's not a coincidence that he wants to break up /clg/ into 3 or 4 different threads. He's just a shitposter trying to derail and kill this thread. Stop giving him (you)s.

[Anonymous No.23383591]

I still don't understand why you guys won't tolerate separate threads. That way it would be easier to navigate, and I would not have to keep up with faggots adding a new language to the thread every now and then.

[Anonymous No.23383672]

>>23383591
we tried that once and it didn't work. these things come and go in cycles. no need to destroy the whole general because of a few posters.

[Anonymous No.23383931]

NEW
>>23383930
>>23383930
>>23383930