/clg/ - Classical Languages General

[Anonymous No.23103191]

Arthurian edition

>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·
>>23073016

NOTE: replace ' dot ' with an actual dot to access the links below
>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·
https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw

>Mέγα τὸ ANE
https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg

Feel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.

>Work in progress FAQ
https://rentry dot co/n8nrko
You are very welcome to suggest additions/changes/etc... especially for other classical languages

[Anonymous No.23103200]

https://youtu.be/Qco3PAXy6w4

[Anonymous No.23103205]

>>23103182
I feel the mergers are potentially problematic because of merged grammatical forms. Didn't the collapse of the subjunctive in spoken Greek follow pretty closely with the collapse of vowel length?

[Anonymous No.23103323]

>>23103205
That's true, and words like ναῦν present issues, not to mention ἡμεῖς and ὑμεῖς. There really is no perfect solution. That said, I think precluding the possibility of spoken comprehension between schools is a greater cost than what you mentioned. In French, for example, there are plenty of subjunctive forms that aren't pronounced differently, and the subjunctive is still quite healthy in that language.

[Anonymous No.23103336]

>>23103323
Is it really precluded? People around the world speak English in various thick accents and manage to talk to each other. For that matter, people in the Middle Ages and Renaissance used various regional pronunciations of Latin and apparently still mostly managed to speak it.

[Anonymous No.23103342]

>>23103323
I say this in a detached, speculative way, of course. Ideally students of Greek should be at least passingly familiar with both pronunciation schemes, the way students of Latin all have a idea of what the major pronunciation schemes sound like, or indeed English literature students can pick up Chaucerian declamation. That's my ideal solution. The real world solution is for universities to shutter their classics departments.

[Anonymous No.23103347]

>>23103336
When we're talking about first- and second-year Greek students and not reasonably fluent anglophones or Renaissance scholars: yes.

[Anonymous No.23103400]

>>23103041
>>23103182
>This is the best argument for Reuchlin/modern Greek pronunciation, btw. As it stands every school has its own mutually unintelligible Creole pronunciation that professors expect first years to replicate. Teach modern pronunciation first—if the first years can handle anything confusing about Greek they can also handle iotacism—then teach reconstructed on top of that when they get to Homer.

This is the best argument for reconstructed/Attic pronunciation, btw. As it stands every school has its own mutually unintelligible Creole pronunciation that professors expect first years to replicate. Teach reconstructed pronunciation first—if the first years can handle anything confusing about Greek they can also handle aspirated stops—then teach modern on top of that when they get to Homer.

(compare to how everyone learns Latin with reconstructed pronunciation nowadays)

[Anonymous No.23103449]

>>23103336
>For that matter, people in the Middle Ages and Renaissance used various regional pronunciations of Latin and apparently still mostly managed to speak it.

They managed to understand each other's writing, but not speech. Everyone was sure that they were speaking Latin the one and only correct way, until they were invited to a foreign university and discovered that nobody understood them and they couldn't understand anybody. This is exactly what inspired people in the Renaissance to study what the "correct" pronunciation must have ben in the classical times.

[Anonymous No.23103657]

>>23103400
You know very well that's not equivalent.

[Anonymous No.23103708]

>>23103449
They had some difficulty occasionally, but as far as I know it was generally possible for them to converse, aside from highly divergent pronunciations like the English one.

[Anonymous No.23103748]

tonight i'm listening to some peter pringle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6adj7Xoo9Us

[Anonymous No.23103790]

>>23103748
Wish he would do a proper album, download-only for all I care.

[Anonymous No.23103855]

>>23103748
>tfw I have an old turtleshell lying in my yard and getting intrusive thoughts about making a chelys with it

[Anonymous No.23104878]

how do i filter
>chinks
>pajeets
>pronunciation faggots

[Anonymous No.23104910]

>>23104878
Give the ethernet cable a good pull.
Toss the phone in the toilet (pajeets wont find it there)
Fill your ears with wax so the Siren Song of accuracy can reach you no more

[Anonymous No.23105231]

>>23104878
4chanx word filter
add a couple terms and they magically go away
this works well with individual posters too

[Anonymous No.23105309]

>>23103191
TRANSLATION CHALLENGE:
Tacitus' Histories 1:3
Into English or your target language

[Anonymous No.23105390]

>>23105309
It was nevertheless an age not so sterile of virtues to not produce some good examples: mothers accompanying fleeing sons, wives following exiled spouses: bold neighbors/relatives, present sons-in-law, tenacious faith of the servants even in face of punishments; the harshest struggles of famous men tolerated with courage and with conclusions such as the famed deaths of ancient men. and beyond varied events in the human sphere, prodigious sightings in the sky and earth, warnings from thunderbolts and presages of future things, some good, some bad, some clear some obscure; neither had there been another time with more atrocious calamities for Roman people or better signs to declare that what was dear to the gods wasn't out safety, but vengeance
I almost had more trouble putting this into decent english, good challenge though. off to bed now. valete.

[Anonymous No.23105588]

>>23101453
It's literally what Ranieri who almost certainly has more meaningful knowledge than you might on the matter appears to agree with, and likley referencing from the article on the voiceless alveolar trill describes the sound in one of his videos using Icelandic hrafn ("raven") as the example.

https://youtu.be/5Q3eXyzGZcg?t=1009

So now it can thereby be plausibly established that Wikipedia is a reasonably faithful source of reference.

[Anonymous No.23105723]

This has been the best Hebrew lesson series yet with the continual instant alternation between close-ups and wide shots and being multilingual in two of the world's most ubiquitous languages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qej5t4q4HGo&list=PLiTMsGs6r4zRDTg3vPN8iTusF6QEky4l0&index=3

[Anonymous No.23105760]

>>23103191
Bros, I've got a problem. I was doing a Latin oral examination and was asked to read out and then translate some prose. So I get to the word dominatus and the prof asks what it means. I said "born at home" and he looked at me as if I am some type of vermin. Did I do something wrong here? It may be a literal translation but it's valid.

[Anonymous No.23105787]

>>23105723
I literally lol'ed while watching this. This is so Indian and so terrible.

[Anonymous No.23105792]

>>23105760
No, it's not a literal translation or in any way valid. Go check a dictionary. Your professor was dumbfounded by your ingenious stupidity.

[Anonymous No.23105797]

>>23103041
Oh, I didn't realise that's what you meant by scheme. I think we're attempting reconstructed Attic classical Greek.

[Anonymous No.23105800]

>>23105760
At least you didn't say birth home

[Anonymous No.23106160]

>>23105760
HAH good one

[Anonymous No.23106888]

>>23105588
>Youtuber as a source

[Anonymous No.23106902]

>>23106888
he mostly just reports what experts on the subject write, it's not really stuff he comes up with

[Anonymous No.23106920]

>>23106902
>likley referencing from the article
>he mostly just reports what experts on the subject write
So to be clear, you have done little to no research yourself and instead parrot his words verbatim because you assume he has distilled the "experts" for you? Sound way to get advice
>>23105588
>Baldman probably references a wiki article
>therefore wiki is reasonably faithful
kek
have you tried going into the Wiki references and reading the source material yourself? Of course not, better to trust a weirdo on Youtube. Why read Allen's book, published in the late 60's, when you can take the word of a huckster on the internet at face value?

[Anonymous No.23107003]

I don't know what you two are arguing about but saying "it must be true because ranieri says so" is peak cringe

[Anonymous No.23107017]

>>23107003
Divus esse videtur stultis hoc and alibi quam huic, quia non actualiter linguam sciant

[Anonymous No.23107026]

>>23107003
the usual crabs in a bucket mentality: they don't actually have specific linguistic or philological arguments against what the guy says, they are just angry some guy is successful on youtube

[Anonymous No.23107063]

>>23106920
But it still sounds like you'd rather come in here and have others distill information for you than put up any charitable contribution of your own toward that end, seeing as you have not offered any challenges or alternatives to the claims of the aforementioned sources nor offered any input from any sources of your own preference.

[Anonymous No.23107070]

>>23107017
Atrocious Latin.
> hoc and alibi quam huic,
What are you even trying to say?
> actualiter
Come on, man.
> sciant
Why subjunctive?

[Anonymous No.23107083]

>>23107017
>actualiter

[Anonymous No.23107094]

>>23107026
>they're just jealous
are you 8?

[Anonymous No.23107107]

>>23107094
you should ask those getting so uppity about some youtuber presenting perfectly average and mild opinions about the subject while acting as experts and as if he were presenting fringe or esoteric interpretations of the evidence

[Anonymous No.23107126]

>>23107017
>hoc and alibi
>and
cinaede

[Anonymous No.23107445]

>>23107126
And I’m whiter than you, Titus

[Anonymous No.23107598]

Everyone not using the modern Greek pronunciation can suck my cock. Thanks for reading.

[Anonymous No.23107618]

>>23107598
Reuchlin for prose, Erasmus for poetry

[Anonymous No.23107838]

Chinese must be the most retarded language in the world. Squiggles for letters that must have been invented by a deaf man. You could read all the best books ever written in the time it takes to learn to write "My name is Chingchong" in Chinese.

[Anonymous No.23107945]

>>23107838
>read all the best books
>but not the Tao Te Ching in the original language
Does not compute

[Anonymous No.23108047]

>>23107945
Ching Chong Bing is not a book, let alone among the best books.

[Anonymous No.23108384]

trabem meam estote, sodales...!

[Anonymous No.23108389]

Tie-breaking round for /lit/'s favorite children's books. Vote here:

https://forms.gle/QuSzQ6KgfGSex9uq7

Related thread: >>23108191

[Anonymous No.23108391]

>>23107838
>You could read all the best books ever written in the time it takes to learn to write "My name is Chingchong" in Chinese.

[Anonymous No.23108551]

>>23107063
>sources
I mentioned an actual source in my post moron. Go read it.

[Anonymous No.23108564]

>>23107107
I'm getting 'uppity' about you using Youtube and wikipedia as sources. How illiterate are you? Do you actually read?

[Anonymous No.23108661]

>>23107017
>this is who tells you to 'latine dicere'

[Anonymous No.23108667]

"In Imperiō Rōmānō magnus est numerus provinciārum"

is this gramatically correct?

[Anonymous No.23108672]

>>23108667
No

[Anonymous No.23108687]

>>23108667
yeah it is, ignore the local village clown, he doesn't have anything better to do

[Anonymous No.23109153]

ἐρρέτω 'νὴρ βοιωτίζων, μήτις οἱ νόον προσεχέτω

[Anonymous No.23109278]

>>23108047
Genuinely what definition of "book" are you using here

[Anonymous No.23109300]

>>23109278
A book has words, not meaningless picture glyphs.

[Anonymous No.23109406]

>>23109300
To the Chinese, what you're writing right now are meaningless glyphs.

[Anonymous No.23109463]

heri caput γυμναζόμενος meum μάλα vehementer ἔκοψα
arbitror finem esse mihi τῷ litterarum ἐπιτηδεύματι

[Anonymous No.23110492]

I'd like to learn Greek, but it scares me off so badly. I have a Greek grammar book from my university classes and it fucking throws whole-page conjugation tables at me from page 20 and it looks like it's only getting worse later on. I've been learning French using only grammar books too, but it looked far more approachable.
Is there a zoomer friendly book with a more gentle approach?

[Anonymous No.23110506]

>>23110492
check the FAQ
I'd suggest Athenaze, you won't meet the future tense or non indicative moods until the second book

[Anonymous No.23110525]

>>23110506
wait for real? LLPSI covers pretty much all the essentials in FR, what's the point of stretching it out this much?

[Anonymous No.23110527]

>>23110492
Italian Athenaze and Logos: Lingua Graeca.

[Anonymous No.23110534]

>>23110525
n.b I should've mentioned I'm talking about the Italian version; I think it's the great amount of reading material, if it were all in one book it would be quite a heavy one, the purpose is to cement your basics with lots of reading of the most basic sentence types i.e no hypothetic constructions, tenses other than basic present and past, etc....
but the whole course consisting of the two books will cover more or less everything you need and by the second book you are already reading increasingly less and less abridged ancient passages

[Anonymous No.23110543]

>>23110525
Familia Romana is working with the advantage of a fuckload of cognates, and is also not enough material in and of itself.
I would say that both volumes of Italian Athenaze is worth more than reading Familia Romana alone, but less than FR + supplements.

[Anonymous No.23110576]

>>23108384
numquid vis?

[Anonymous No.23110770]

Olim mihi lingua latina fuit difficillima. Cum enim multum cotidie studuissem, tamen textus latinos intellegere nullo modo poteram; spem huius linguae discendae omnino deposuissem, nisi virum quendam invenissem mirabilem...
De caelo helicopterus descendit magno cum strepitu. Aperta parva ianua, vir ille mirabilis exiit et subridens me aspexit. Caput eius calvus sicut luna plena, oculi felini sicut stellae lucebant. Me appropinquans sic locutus est:
"Noli timere, o parve discipule: hodie linguam disces Latinam, equidem viam monstrabo. Modo mercedem solve in Patreon.com meo ut Ranieri-Methodo© uti possis"
Quod cum fecissem, statim a spiritu Ciceronis possessus sum latineque loqui quam pulcherrime coepi. Gratias tibi, magister Luci! Utinam caput tuum calvum luceat in aeternum!

[Anonymous No.23110790]

Olim mihi lingua latina fuit difficillima. Cum enim multum cotidie studuissem, tamen textus latinos intellegere nullo modo poteram; spem huius linguae discendae omnino deposuissem, nisi virum quendam invenissem mirabilem...
De caelo helicopterus descendit magno cum strepitu. Aperta parva ianua, vir ille mirabilis exiit et subridens me aspexit. Caput eius calvum sicut luna plena, oculi felini sicut stellae lucebant. Me appropinquans sic locutus est:
"Noli timere, o parve discipule: hodie linguam disces Latinam, equidem viam monstrabo. Modo mercedem solve in Patreon.com meo ut Ranieri-Methodo© uti possis"
Quod cum fecissem, statim a spiritu Ciceronis possessus sum latineque loqui quam pulcherrime coepi. Gratias tibi, magister Luci! Utinam caput tuum calvum luceat in aeternum!

[Anonymous No.23110957]

>>23110790
pax eicum

[Anonymous No.23110989]

>>23110957
*eocum

[Anonymous No.23111226]

>>23110790

[Anonymous No.23111555]

>>23110790
>Me appropinquans
*Mihi
Ignosce mihi, LVCI, quia peccavi. Domine, non sum dignus, ut linguam Latinam me doceas. Sed tantum dic verbum, et Ranieri-Dawling© methodo studebo.

[Anonymous No.23111923]

>>23108551
>source amounts mostly to the same things the sources for which a challenge is being attempted with it say
Morons like these should fuck off with their unproductive bitching and go read it then dilate.

[Anonymous No.23112020]

How long can I get away with saying I know Spanish if I just know latin

[Anonymous No.23112399]

>>23112020
You can't desu

[Anonymous No.23112462]

>>23110506
never tried italian athenaze but that sounds like absolute garbage.

>>23110492
its not that bad, after a couple of weeks of anki (and you SHOULD be using anki for any language learning...) on conjugations, the conjugation tables become more or less easy, and then the hard part is just remembering the irregular words (which are mostly common words anyway) and different stem parts for some of the worlds where they can be unpredictably different.

[Anonymous No.23112496]

Are there any good English translations of the Illiad or should I learn Greek?

[Anonymous No.23112553]

>>23112496
Pope and Chapman.

[Anonymous No.23112642]

>>23112553
Grātiās tibi agō. Sorry, I only know elementary Latin.

[Anonymous No.23112685]

>>23112462
>never tried italian athenaze but that sounds like absolute garbage.
On the contrary the pacing is as merciful as can be for Greek, and it provides very good elementary reading material.

[Anonymous No.23112779]

>>23112496
Lattimore as well

[Anonymous No.23112781]

>>23111923
Youtube and wiki will never be sources
You will never be a woman
This is /lit/, try reading a book once in a while

[Anonymous No.23112843]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with wiki as a source for anything as lowbrow as a 4chan internet argument

[Anonymous No.23112881]

>>23112779
Thank you.
>>23112843
You use wikipedia to find sources not understand something. And even then, the sources could be wrong.

[Anonymous No.23113067]

>>23112881
I use Wikipedia as a way to read bite-sized non-fiction in my target languages. Shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.23113518]

>>23113067
Sounds like you'll forever be a pseud.

[Anonymous No.23114029]

>>23113518
I'll forever be blessed with the fruits of my efforts, more like.

[Anonymous No.23114045]

>..., in enodandis autem nominibus quod miserandum sit laboratis: "Saturnus quia se saturat annis, Mavors quia magna vertit, Minerva quia minuit aut quia minatur, Venus quia venit ad omnia, Ceres a gerendo". quam periculosa consuetudo. in multis enim nominibus haerebitis: quid Veiovi facies quid Volcano? quamquam, quoniam Neptunum a nando appellatum putas, nullum erit nomen quod non possis una littera explicare unde ductum sit; in quo quidem magis tu mihi natare visus es quam ipse Neptunus.

[Anonymous No.23114076]

>>23103191
Why is everybody learning Latin, literally the most uninteresting classical language?

[Anonymous No.23114092]

>>23114076
Being in the minority doesn't make you more interesting

[Anonymous No.23114102]

>>23114092
There's literally nothing interesting written in Latin. Tf you gonna read, medieval witch-hunting manuals? Compare that to Greek, where you have ~2k years of philosophy, poetry, drama, religion...

[Anonymous No.23114126]

Eheu, reversus est.

[Anonymous No.23114138]

>>23114076
well we're mostly westerners, but there's few Sinanons, Hebrewanons around even few Sanskritists lately
Latinposters have the usual power of making the thread nasty and scare away other posters for a while with their bullshit though

[Anonymous No.23114187]

>>23114045
Quisnam hoc scripsit?

[Anonymous No.23114193]

>>23114187
In tertio Ciceronis libro de natura deorum quodam Cotta loquente

[Anonymous No.23114232]

>>23114193
Te amo! Putabam me agnoscere scribendi modum suavem Ciceronis.

[Anonymous No.23114380]

>>23114102
>medieval witch-hunting manuals
That's sounds way more interesting than how Latin texts actually are (usually soldiers walking around and building forts)

[Anonymous No.23114393]

>>23114380
> actually
Malleus Maleficarum. Have fun.

[Anonymous No.23114928]

>>23112496
Try reading and comparing multiple translations. That will get you closer to understanding it than any single translation.

[Anonymous No.23114940]

>>23112496
Pharr

[Anonymous No.23115008]

>>23114138
>Sin-anons
>He-brewanons
>Hyposanscritists
>Late-inists
Damn tardy hypocritical drunkard sinners. Repent!

[Anonymous No.23115071]

>>23115008
>Hell-en-ists

[Anonymous No.23115144]

>>23112496
Learn Greek
>>23114940 this.

[Anonymous No.23115195]

τί χαλεποτερον Πλούταρχος ἐγράψε ἢ Ξενοφών καί Πλάτων; ἀναγιγνωσκω τά βίβλια Ξενοφώντος ὥσπερ Ἀγγλικην καί τά Πλατωνος ὥσπερ Γαλλικην ἀλλά ὅταν ἀνοίγω τινα Πλούταρχου ἀναγιγνωσκω αὐτόν ὥσπερ ἄν ἀνέῳγον τήν Βαγαυαδ Γιτα

[Anonymous No.23115199]

>>23114076
>you have to learn [gay bath-house language] / [bug language] / [street shitter language] umm because...YOU JUST DO OKAY

[Anonymous No.23115223]

WE SHOULD ONLY WRITE LATIN AND GREEK IN CAPS. IT'S HOW PLATO AND CAESAR WROTE. LOWERCASE GREEK = ALEXANDRIAN JEW/ARMENIOID BYZANTINE GREEK SECOND LANGUAGE HERESY
LOWERCASE LATIN = XTIAN GERMANOID LSL/PLEB HERESY

[Anonymous No.23115272]

>>23115223
WHYDOYOUHAVESPACESFAGGOT

[Anonymous No.23115276]

>>23115223
ITAFORTASSE
NOSSCRIBIMV
SVTHICDVHHH

[Anonymous No.23115311]

>>23115195
οὐκ οἶδα 'γώ, οὔπω τῷ Πλουτάρχῳ ἀντεβόλησα
ἀλλ' ὡς ἐπὶ πόλυ ἠγοῦνται οἱ πολλοὶ τὰ τοῦ Ξενοφῶντος ἠδε τοῦ Πλατῶνος ἀτραχῆ τὸ ἀναγνῶναι γεγραμμένα ὥστ' εἰπεῖν ἐξὸν Πολύταρχον ἢ καὶ Θουκυδίδην ἴσως γεγραφέναι βουλομένους ὡς ἐδύναντο μάλιστα ἠλιβατοῦν τὴν πατρῴαν γλῶσσαν

[Anonymous No.23115359]

>>23115223
ἔρρ' Ἄιδόσδε

[Anonymous No.23115443]

>>23115311
>ἠλιβατοῦν
τί δέ; οὐ ἔχω εὑρεῖν οὔτε ἐν LSJ οὔτε ἐν τἆλλοις

[Anonymous No.23115446]

TRANSLATION CHALLENGE:
EASY:
>There was a king of the Albans.
>The Kingdom was left by the king to Numitor.
>The daughter of Numitor was Silva.
MEDIUM
>The wolf would have ran up at the crying of the little ones.
>The mother was imprisoned and the children were thrown into the Tiber.
>Remus, captured by the robbers, was led to the king.
HARD
>Numitor would have attentively observed the face of the young man had he been present at the time.
>By no means is the disposition of Remus servile, and he shall act accordingly.
>For the protection of the city, Romulus made some walls, which Remus in derision leaped over.

[Anonymous No.23115469]

>>23115443
αὐτὸς τόδε τὸ ῥῆμ' ἔτευξα ἐκ ἠλιβατέω < ἠλίβατος· ἐβουλόμην τινὰ φράσιν εὑρεῖν σημαίνουσαν τό ἐς ἀστέρας ἀναφέρειν τι

[Anonymous No.23115472]

>>23115446
ΗΝΠΟΤΕΤΙΣΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣΤΩΝΑΛΒΩΝ
ΗΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΑΕΛΕΙΦΘΗΥΠΟΤΟΥΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣΝΥΜΙΤΟΡΩ
ΟΝΟΜΑΤΗΘΥΓΑΤΕΡΙΝΥΜΙΤΟΡΟΥΗΝΣΙΛΥΑ

[Anonymous No.23115479]

>>23115469
οἶδα, κάλλιστος

[Anonymous No.23115501]

Frens who went to university for classics, was it worth it? I am in dubio whether or not to pursue a degree in classics or law. I am very sceptical of the professorship despite the university's high standing

[Anonymous No.23115521]

>>23115501
>I am very sceptical of the professorship
why

[Anonymous No.23115528]

>>23115446
ΡΗΜΥΣΥΠΟΤΩΝΛΗΣΤΩΝΕΑΛΩΤΩΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΗΓΕΤΟ

[Anonymous No.23115534]

>>23115446
>Erat rex Albanorum.
>Regium a rege Numitori lectum est.
>Filia Numitoris Silva erat.
>Lupa, puerulis vagientes, succurrisset.
>Mater in vincula coniecta est, et liberi in Tiberim coniecti sunt.
>Remus a latronibus captus ad regem ductus est.
>Numitor magna cum cura vultum iuvenis contemplatus esset si tum esset praesens.
>Nequaquam ingenium Remi servile est, et ita a quo agitur.
>Romulus praesidio urbis muros condidit, quos Remus deridens transiluit.

[Anonymous No.23115540]

>>23115446
>有阿爾巴之王
>王以國讓努米托
>努米托之女曰西爾瓦

[Anonymous No.23115546]

>>23115446
ΗΜΗΤΗΡΕΔΕΘΗΚΑΙΤΑΤΕΚΝΑΕΒΑΛΛΕΤΟΕΙΣΗΤΙΒΗΡ

[Anonymous No.23115552]

>>23115521
The male professors are feminine and the women masculine. The same is true for the student cohort.

[Anonymous No.23115585]

>>23115552
How does that suggest any reflection on their professorship?

[Anonymous No.23115587]

>>23115446
Rex erat Albanis.
Regnum Numitori remissum.
Numitoris filia Silva.

Cucurrisset lupus ad parvulorum vagitus.
Mater in vincula, pueri in Tiberim coniecti.
Remus a latronibus captus ad regem adductust.

Si adfuisset iuvenis vultum perspexisset Numitor summa diligentia.
Remus haud servus natu digne se geret.
Moenia urbis defendendae causa a Romulo munita Remulus ludibrio transilit.

[Anonymous No.23115599]

>>23115585
The male professors are weak of body, thus of mind also. The female professors literally trooned out.
I am certain they know their grammar and can teach me that well, but anything regarding philosophy, material culture, etc, I doubt.

[Anonymous No.23115635]

>>23115501
Only peripherally aware because I am doing a course in a classical language on the side, but the kind of people attracted to classics are worthwhile if a bit childish. The material itself will likely bore you if you are dedicated to it on your own clock.
On the other hand law is utterly soulless, arbitrary and life consuming so if presented with those options it isn't even a choice

[Anonymous No.23115640]

>>23115599
You have more to learn from different perspectives than from affirming your own over and over. Though it does get grating eventually.

[Anonymous No.23115685]

>>23115640
I love hearing quality opinions, it's just that those of ill body and mind lack them. These women are pseudo-men and the men are girl-ish.
>>23115635
Soulless? I am quite interested in the philosophical aspects of law and enjoy reading immensely. You are right tho, the classics are more soulful.

[Anonymous No.23115709]

>>23115635
This is true. Why are most of the people into classics redditor manchildren types, childless women, or troons?

[Anonymous No.23115738]

>>23115709
Still some very nice people (I am a not-southern euro so the default is death glares, I am easily impressed) who genuinely care about books (rare among students in the first place) and with a declared intent to study good books.
Classics are definitely not the worst bridgehead into institutional studies, and while that is not the metric anyone is going to publicly go for it is still a good counterbalance to whatever you get up to alone

[Anonymous No.23115777]

>>23115738
In America only boomer professors are still smart and moderately based. Most younger professors and especially classics students are literal Tumblr faggots.

[Anonymous No.23115794]

>>23115777
Definitely the same here, old professors are made of something else, and very rarely the wrong stuff. I would disagree that tumblrfaggots who care about classics are the worst crowd you find at a university regardless, and you are going to spend much more time around students than professors even if all you do is attend lectures.

[Anonymous No.23116016]

Recently bought this icon on a trip to Greece. I don't know what the inscription means, can one of you translate it?
I tried typing it out with a software-based Greek keyboard and putting it into Google Translate but I am unable to find some of the letters from the icon on the aforementioned keyboard, which leads me to believe this is some form of ancient Greek?

[Anonymous No.23116025]

>>23116016
Here's my attempt at writing it out since it's hard to get a good picture of the text.
Also sorry for the sideways images, I'm phonefagging right now

[Anonymous No.23116035]

>>23116016
look like ὁ ἅγιος Δημήτριος
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_of_Thessaloniki

[Anonymous No.23116045]

>>23116035
The translation of just the words is "The Holy Demetrios"

[Anonymous No.23116052]

>>23116045
Pardon, got ETL'd, it's the saint/holy man in england

[Anonymous No.23116054]

>>23116016
Saint Demetrius
ὀ ἀγιος (or holy but here means saint) Δημητριος

[Anonymous No.23116062]

>>23116054
>>23116045
>>23116052
>>23116035
Thanks guys

[Anonymous No.23116067]

>>23116062
By the way, you didn't fuck up, the capitals swallow the spiritus (it turns the o into ho/definite article and the a into ha), there was no way you were going to figure that out with just google

[Anonymous No.23116069]

>>23116062
Btw the C shape letter is just a different way of writing sigma (ς/σ) so if that was the problem when you tried to google translate it you can remember that for next time

[Anonymous No.23116142]

>>23115223
BASADO

[Anonymous No.23116190]

>>23115446
I am a total noob, and can only translate this one; please correct me.

EASY:.
>The daughter of Numitor was Silva.
<Nomen filia Numitori erat Silva

[Anonymous No.23116236]

>>23116190
nomen can normally work with either genitive or dative of the person it is, i.e roughly equivalent to "to him the name is..." or "his name is"
so nomen filiae(dat.) Numitoris erat Silva
or nomen filiae(gen.) Numitoris erat Silva

you could also express the same as "(To) Numitor was a daughter named Silva" with the idiomatic "nomine X" e.g "Numitori erat filia nomine Silva" or even "Numitor filiam habebat nomine Silvam"

[Anonymous No.23116243]

>>23116067
>>23116069
Interesting, thanks

[Anonymous No.23116261]

Haec virum docere mihi Latinum. Grates magister!

[Anonymous No.23116306]

wtf I can actually read this???
https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/isidore/9.shtml

[Anonymous No.23116334]

>>23115501
It was worth it for my own edification and education. That degree will not get you jobs or money and the only doors it will open are those to an MA or PhD in something and even then there are better options.
I do not regret majoring in Classics. That said I went in knowing it would not be lucrative. Figure out what you want from college. If you want to get rich pick something else and stick with Classics as a hobby. Especially if you are sceptical of the professors.
Bear in mind a career in Classics in academia is virtually unobtainable.

[Anonymous No.23116344]

>>23115640
>muh diversity
No one has anything to learn from some limp-wristed pansy. "Different perspectives" - I wonder if you would sing the same song if the professors were outspokenly racist and sexist

[Anonymous No.23116357]

>>23115709
humanities in general are like that. In college particularly so as all opposition to faggotry has been purged.

[Anonymous No.23116359]

>>23116236
DAYUM!

thank you for the consideration; I have a lot to learn, still

[Anonymous No.23116362]

>>23116261
the irony of this post, topkek

[Anonymous No.23116428]

>>23115195
unrelated but i just realized it must be a mindfuck for ESL's when they learn past and present tense of read in english are spelt the same but pronounced different

[Anonymous No.23116474]

This sounds like complete bullshit

[Anonymous No.23116491]

>>23116261
*Hic vir me linguam Latinam docuit. Gratias ago magister!

[Anonymous No.23116592]

>>23116261
Hercle, quis est iste extraterrestis? Similis est illi alienigenae quem Mexicani invenerunt.

[Anonymous No.23116714]

>>23114076
i will take the hordes of latin NPC's over chink and poo shit anyday.

[Anonymous No.23116730]

>>23114076
Latin was the foundational language of the West as we know it (greeks fucking little boys doesn't count), which eventually created America, which eventually created this website for you to be a gigantic faggot on

[Anonymous No.23117406]

>>23116428
English is basically the latin of brown people

[Anonymous No.23117840]

>>23115223
BASATVS•ES•SED•CVM•INTERPVNCTIS•DEBES•SCRIBERE

[Anonymous No.23117977]

>>23116344
My favorite teacher (we don't call just anyone professor here) was outspokenly sexist last semester. But if you have a binary mind you are likely to be unable to profit from a plurality in perspectives anyway so just file me away as the "other" and go on with your day.

[Anonymous No.23118101]

>>23115223
ok. write something in latin/greek then.

[Anonymous No.23118110]

>>23116714
You probably take hordes of chink and poo shit right where you live which is probably New Jersey.

[Anonymous No.23118411]

>>23118101
ΙΔΟΥΕΠΙΠΑΝΤΑΤΑΑΝΩΣΟΥΓΕΓΡΑΜΜΕΝΑΩΣΠΕΡΤΟΥΤΟ

[Anonymous No.23118416]

>>23116261
mvy basadvs

[Anonymous No.23118420]

>>23116428
I fvcking love being an Anglo.

[Anonymous No.23118906]

Roooooma
In itaaaaaalia est

[Anonymous No.23119759]

His haters are all spiteful mutants. He's a disabled veteran who provides quality, free content and he's better at Latin than anyone ITT. Seethe harder, pergamus discere latine cum rege

[Anonymous No.23119841]

>>23119759
>disabled
?

[Anonymous No.23119857]

>>23119759
>quality

[Anonymous No.23119928]

>>23119841
Yeah he's autistic

[Anonymous No.23120039]

>>23116428
Just imagine learning that in the plural of woman only the first syllable sounds different. Wild.

[Anonymous No.23120132]

Newfag to /clg/ and beginner in Latin here. I haven't watched much of the bald guy, so can I get a quick rundown on why he's so hated here?

[Anonymous No.23120175]

>>23120132
He's a bit of an unintended cult leader.
He knows how to market and get his content to reach audiences, so he is not only the biggest latin online personality, but for all intents and purposes he is basically the only latin online personality and he is often the source for peoples new found interest in the language.
Furthermore he (probably unintentionally) limits the kind of information that new latin enthusiasts are exposed to due to his constant and immediate disregarding of anything that isn't llpsi and his own pronounciation habits.
This all ultimately results in generating a large number of individuals who say
>Rooooommaaa in itaaaaaaaliaa est
and insisting that wheelock is the worst crime upon humanity despite not only never reading wheelock but never even having heard of its existing before finding the bald man

It's not that people hate bald man, it's that they hate what he has created

[Anonymous No.23120186]

>>23120132
Because everyone here is a cynical contrarian. Most of the attacks are against his person, anyway, not what he teaches. If you want to read the basis for most of what he does teach (at least regarding Latin) read "Vox Latina" by Allen. (Maybe also "Vox Graeca" for Greek, but I haven't personally watched any Greek content.)

[Anonymous No.23120194]

>>23120175
>>23120186
I forgot about his militant views on using LLPSI stuff only. They're excellent readers, but he's a little extreme.

[Anonymous No.23120196]

>>23120132
He's creepy af

[Anonymous No.23120236]

>>23120175
And honestly Wheelock is pretty good.There's a good argument for the problems of translation but at the same time that's how modern languages get taught, albeit with an important verbal component.

[Anonymous No.23120313]

>>23120186
But that is not true, he has often attacked Allen's Latin saying it is too close to Germanic languages, and adopting an entirely different vowel system. Regarding vox Graeca, well, Luke came up with his own "Lucian pronunciation", which he uses and promotes.
Nothing wrong with that really, but you are misinformed.

[Anonymous No.23120400]

>>23120196
this
worst ambassador since Jared from Subway

[Anonymous No.23120827]

He's pounding 18yo pussy as we speak and you faggots are on fucking /clg/ lmfao

[Anonymous No.23121219]

>>23119759
Multae sunt eum contemnendi causae; scilicet quia lucrum lingua loquenda facit simplissima indoctis, maxime vero quod methodon effecit mendosam eique ita lenacinatur ut fiant qui linguam sine grammatica perdisci posse credunt.
Non curo eum veteranum esse—non enim Americanus sum, quippe qui non Americanus est dicta factaque tantum curat.

[Anonymous No.23121682]

>>23115223
its fine to write in bastardized script with barbarian tongues, capital without spaces should stay an exclusivity to the ancients.

[Anonymous No.23122785]

Is there any resource on Greek/Latin textbook word counts? I counted that the Italian Athenaze has roughly 43,000 words but I'm curious about other books like Reading Greek or Rouse's Greek Boy.

[Anonymous No.23122967]

>>23122785
How did you count it?

[Anonymous No.23122993]

>>23122967
i counted the line numbers together (7953) and multiplied it by the average number of words on a line (5,4)

[Anonymous No.23123084]

>>23122785
reading greek has numbered lines so it should be easy to count if someone cares enough to count

[Anonymous No.23123125]

>>23123084
Problem is that any line can have anywhere from 0 to 15 words which makes it harder to estimate compared to Athenaze. Despite this, I counted the lines together and tried to find an average words-per-line. By my estimation Reading Greek has around 23,000 words.

[Anonymous No.23123126]

>>23122993
You could have just opened it in a software lol

[Anonymous No.23123140]

>>23123126
a software would also count all the words unrelated to the narrative which make up like 50% of the book. also all my greek textbooks are shitty scans so i don't know how well a software could read the text.

[Anonymous No.23123333]

Sorry, I can't do languages removed from the classical Mediterranean. Greek, Latin, and Arabic, though the classical period of the former two is heathen and the totality of the latter is heretic, are close enough to the wellspring of all valor that beauty seeps through. When I hear Chinese or Sanskrit I just hear horrible heathen screeching. No meaning, no beauty, no sense of the Human.

[Anonymous No.23123354]

>>23120313
If that's true, I certainly was misinformed. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.23123577]

>>23120236
Is it? It's not how most of the modern languages I've studied have been taught.

[Anonymous No.23123585]

>>23123333
Well that's not parochial in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.23123592]

>>23123577
how did they teach it?

[Anonymous No.23123616]

>>23123592
A lot of exercises of reading, understanding, responding etc that didn't reference the learner's native language, though there was some translation.

[Anonymous No.23123640]

>>23123616
You are right. I might be thinking more about middle school. I had a Spanish teacher who had us just drill vocab and write some things in Spanish occasionally.

[Anonymous No.23123813]

>>23123585
It's not. It's recognition of the frankly one-sided struggle to the summit of Truth.

[Anonymous No.23124103]

>>23122785
lol wtf is that pic? Imagine spending that much time not only on readers but then counting the words in said readers and charting them like an analyst calculating dividends for an annual meeting.

[Anonymous No.23125077]

BUMP

[Anonymous No.23125168]

>>23123333
Ok this is a pretty good bit, I like it.

[Anonymous No.23125504]

>>23115534
I can't judge this, too pleb, but thanks for posting it.

[Anonymous No.23125505]

>>23115540
COMPACT!

[Anonymous No.23125507]

>>23115534
>>23115587
Which one's more correct, learned bros?

[Anonymous No.23125846]

>>23125507
seconds looks more idiomatic and compact
in the first there's a few little mistakes or unidiomatic things, e.g succurro takes the dative so the fourth should have vagientibus, or praesens esse instead of adesse
also I'm not sure what construction anon had in mind with the second phrase and the penultimate one

[Anonymous No.23125895]

who was in the wrong here?

[Anonymous No.23125915]

>>23125895
anyone who got tricked into reading that drivel, me included

[Anonymous No.23125943]

>>23125895
I don't get it, this reads like a fever dream

[Anonymous No.23125972]

>>23119759
>>23119857
>quality
this but unironically. he gets a lot of grief for his early pronunciation, but he's constantly improving and updating his free material. i realized years ago all the hate for him really is credentialism and gatekeeping. he has no degrees or sinecures, yet he's more knowledgeable, traveled and fluent than anyone who's ever posted in /clg/ which drives the washed up postgrads here crazy

[Anonymous No.23126027]

>>23125972
This may be the case for Latin but his Greek content is pretty bad. Also, his promise of reaching fluency by following his 5-Step-Ranieri-Autofellatio-Method is total bullshit. I might respect him if any of his content revolved around getting people to read actual classical literature but he's doing the opposite; discouraging people from reading Homer and rather buying another graded reader.

[Anonymous No.23126029]

>>23125895
poetae decollandi sunt

[Anonymous No.23126127]

>>23123333
Don't, but don't assume that unless you plan to engage in some meaningful contribution to the understanding of those languages that you'll be able to satiate whatever desire you may have from studying them. Western classical languages have plenty of translated material already along with the most publications. Less researched languages by comparison would prove more easily satisfying when noticing aspects about them which aren't widely known.

—A treadable path is not a complete direction. A callable name is not a complete identity.

[Anonymous No.23126180]

>>23123333
>>23126127

[Anonymous No.23126201]

>>23126127
>and THAT is why you have to join my Classical Niggerese discord server filled with trannies

[Anonymous No.23126664]

>>23123813
I'm saying if you start from the presumption that Truth only exists in some places you will never find it. Why would the Greek and Roman pagans be any less ignorant than the Chinese and Indian ones? Some of the Indian ones at least arrived independently at something close to monotheism. Some people have also identified the Tao with the notion of Logos, to the point that many Chinese translations of the New Testament translate λόγος as 道.

[Anonymous No.23126847]

what country is the best at being latinists/hellenists?
In the sense that they produce new material, write books about history, myths, translations, compilations, and also make books about learning latin/greek.

I guess it's Italy? since they have preserved Liceo Classico and also have the Accademia Vivarium Novum

I ask because it would be interesting to visit a country like that, and learn their language so that I could do more research

[Anonymous No.23127021]

Let me guess, you NEED more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLe1GhR5l0E&list=PLO3VwXPRtV3yHbCsWoGCxEkBsDoXNkpMq&index=1&pp=iAQB

[Anonymous No.23127035]

>>23127021
>Erasmian

[Anonymous No.23127048]

>>23126847
In order, probably
>Germany
>France
>Italy
German and French are absolutely essential if you want to get into classical scholarship. Arguably Italian too, but it's easy if you know French and Latin.

[Anonymous No.23127065]

>>23127021
>/ɔ́nɔs/ instead of /ónos̠/
>/kámɛlɔs/ instead of /kámɛːlos̠/

[Anonymous No.23127082]

>>23127021
>Greek counterpart to Alef–Bet
Why do you want to finance some guy and his wife trying to make an extra profit for themselves. Woman should be in di house making fufu.
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Timothy 2:12, King Jim Version)

[Anonymous No.23127111]

>>23127082
>Why do you want to finance some guy and his wife trying to make an extra profit for themselves
If they wanted to make an extra profit for themselves, they would be selling the course, which is excellent, instead of giving it away for free, and they'd be making x10. A Polis institute course of way lower quality is worth hundreds of euros, while this is >free.

In fact, the guy runs an entire website and podcast complaining about people charging for religious instruction: https://sellingjesus.org/

>>23127065
Anglos can't into vowels.

[Anonymous No.23127129]

>>23127082
> finance
They're literally giving away all of their material for free, to the point of offering their CC-licensed videos for download, so that you can go full monk mode with just an USB stick.
That's incredibly based, and I'm not even an Abrahamist.

[Anonymous No.23127336]

>>23127048
I thought of Germany too, but nowadays their thing seems to be politics and general linguistics. Thanks for the insight, maybe french is not so bad

[Anonymous No.23127380]

>>23127065
>>23127111

What's the point of quibbling over stresses? I've never met a Greek student that could tell me why those stressed are even there. I've seen enough macrons combined with accents to convince me that the entire thing is just fabricated for the sake of academics maintaining their careers.

[Anonymous No.23127385]

>>23127021
>Lesson 18 - Alphabet Part 3

[Anonymous No.23127395]

>>23127380
the Muses will ghost you if you don't get them right

[Anonymous No.23127399]

>>23127395
That explains a lot actually. :(

[Anonymous No.23127448]

>>23127385
You get a gist of the language first, then you learn to read. That's the entire point of this method.

[Anonymous No.23127451]

>>23127380
Idk, in my opinion those long vowels are cringe. I just read shit like a modern Greek. I understand why people use the Erasmian pronuncation since it makes it easier to remember how words are spelled, but that's it.

[Anonymous No.23127454]

>>23127451
>Idk, in my opinion those long vowels are cringe. I just read shit like a modern Greek.
I guess that'd help you sound colloquial, but my gripe with modern Greek is that half the vowels and all of the dipthongs sound like "i" or some slight variation.

[Anonymous No.23127479]

>>23127454
The thing is, if I take a look at my shelves, I have stuff written by:
>2nd century BC Alexandrian Jews
>a 6th century BC Lesbian
>a 5th century BC Ionian
>an bronze age epic poet
And I'm supposed to read all of this shit with a fake-ass reconstructed pronunciation of a 5th century Athenian (or one of the 2374234 variations of it)? Fuck it, I'm using the only pronunciation that has an actual historical basis: the modern one.

[Anonymous No.23127503]

>>23127448
sounds like a pretty shitty method

[Anonymous No.23127511]

>>23127503
>t. nigger that spent two years memorizing the cases in high school and doesn't even know how to say "hello" in Greek

[Anonymous No.23127515]

>>23125846
I'm the less correct anon. Was going for an ablative absolute (puerulis vagientibus*). Also not sure how else I could have answered the penultimate one besides how the more learned anon did. I was going for some sort of passive construction there, which seems a little clunky besides the fact that it's not in the right tense (if "shall" implies a future action.

[Anonymous No.23127531]

>>23127479
>And I'm supposed to read all of this shit with a fake-ass reconstructed pronunciation of a 5th century Athenian (or one of the 2374234 variations of it)?
Strongest point. It's pretty funny now that you mention: Hellenists on one hand claim their pronunciation is 'pretty good' and 'close enough' and 'academic' but in the next breathe will explain that original Aeolian is nothing close to Attic, then show you a copy of Aeolian rendered in Attic as if it were the original.

[Anonymous No.23127540]

>>23127451
Being able to hear poetic meter is extremely important.
That is however the only reason that convinces me. I read prose in Reuchlinian and verse in Erasmian.

[Anonymous No.23127544]

>>23127511
cope

[Anonymous No.23127547]

>>23127479
Based. Reconstructed pronunciations are a psyop. They're excusable for poetry only.

[Anonymous No.23127574]

>>23127547
If they're excusable for poetry why wouldn't they also be for Attic prose? Do I have to change my pronunciation when there's a speaker in a platonic dialogue quotes Homer?

[Anonymous No.23127583]

>>23127511
This is me. It took me eight years to read "how's it going" in Latin and it never occurred to me that I didn't actually know how to have a conversation in Latin.

[Anonymous No.23127589]

>>23127583
if only you spent those eight years watching youtube, you'd be fluent by now!

[Anonymous No.23127596]

>>23127589
Yes, watching 100 hours of full immersion YouTube videos is way more productive than 100 hours autistically memorizing cases or translating phrases again and again in your notebook. This is a scientific fact.

[Anonymous No.23127601]

>>23127596
have you ever thought about picking up a reader instead, zoomer?

[Anonymous No.23127604]

>>23127589
It was intermittent but keep in mind I took Latin in 'igh school and occasionally brush up. I took Latin classes in 2008-2010. Google Translate didn't even 'ave a Latin option at that time and none of the Youtubers you know were on it. All of the videos on Rome were cookie cutter slideshows of Roman 'istory with stock photos of legionaries and busts. You were more likely to 'ear "ave" than a "salve" at the time lmao

Seems like centuries ago now. My God internet culture 'as changed.

[Anonymous No.23127609]

>>23127601
You don't start with a reader before knowing anything else. What terrible advice.

[Anonymous No.23127611]

>>23127601
Absolutely retarded.

[Anonymous No.23127621]

>>23126847
America, Britain, France, Germany

[Anonymous No.23127624]

>>23127609
>>23127611
Didn't realize i was arguing with week 2 learners. How's the 2nd declension going for you?

[Anonymous No.23127632]

>>23127624
>gives absolutely retarded advice
>brags about it

[Anonymous No.23127638]

>>23127624
>the 2nd declension
What the hell is that, boomer? You are not going to tell me you spent eight years memorizing this shit before you were able to read Winnie the Pooh in Ancient Greek, are you?

[Anonymous No.23127662]

>>23127574
Because most prose is not constructed around a quantitative meter that is inaudible in modern pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.23127666]

>>23127479
What do you mean by historical basis? (Also, you could use some kind of koine pronunciation, which would at least have a few more distinctions while not being anachronistically early for any of these texts.)

[Anonymous No.23127671]

>>23127632
He's in too deep at this point lol

[Anonymous No.23127675]

>>23127596
>>23127611
/r/Latin is probably more your speed, desu
>>23127574
If you want, but reading prose in an artificial pronunciation feels really stilted. The modern Greek pronunciation comes naturally for me, since there are living speakers to imitate and wonderful courses with audio to learn modern Greek. Pretty much the only person I've heard with Attic pronunciation that doesn't make my ears bleed is Podium Arts, but I doubt most people could reach his level.

[Anonymous No.23127688]

>>23127675
>/r/Latin is probably more your speed, desu
Cope, academiacuck

[Anonymous No.23127694]

>>23127688
Nigga, I've literally used LLPSI and Wheelock's to death. Can you say the same, or are you just a neophyte who feels the need to spout his stubborn opinions fetched on Reddit and from bald man? You're the one coping.

[Anonymous No.23127698]

have sex

[Anonymous No.23127706]

>>23127675
>/r/Latin is probably more your speed, desu

This is probably true for me. I'm stuck in gear 1 and I've lost all motivation to proceed. It doesn't help that there's no real community. No one is pumping each other up to do anything with the language. It's become a monotonous cycle of "just read an excerpt of author x". No one actually discusses their findings either, assuming they're telling the truth at all. There's no energy in the classics but it's obvious there used to be.

[Anonymous No.23127707]

>>23127675
>>23127688
>>23127694
I'd like to invoke the suggestion that all opinions about specifically Latin pedagogy be expressed in Latin or ignored.

[Anonymous No.23127713]

>>23127707
But then you're ignoring the people who need advice the most. What a stupid thing to say. If I said this about Hebrew you'd accuse me of being Hamas.

[Anonymous No.23127732]

>>23127706
If /lit/ were a forum for classically educated men à la 19th century, then maybe we could mutually encourage each other to do what you're saying. But not enough people here know Latin and those that are studying it are mostly still in the beginner stages.
>>23127707
>proceeds to type in English

[Anonymous No.23127736]

>>23127675
>the only person I've heard with Attic pronunciation that doesn't make my ears bleed is Podium Arts
At least we can agree on this.

[Anonymous No.23127744]

>>23127707
Why has everyone started sperging out about Latin when the discussion was originally about Greek?

Latinfags should admit it: they study Latin in order to compensate for their feelings of inferiority.

>be incel NEET
>desperately want to appear smart and cultivated
>pick a basic bitch ancient language with almost zero literature worth reading (but it's le ebin language of the Roman empire and that's all that counts)
>spend five years memorizing the ablative
>can't even say "hello, how are you?" in Latin, but it doesn't matter: now you can sound smart by spitting an irrelevant word salad of grammatical terms, even if you need a dictionary to read a children's book
>get mogged by some reddit nigger that watched a dozen videos of some bald dude
>"nooooo!!! you can't do that! you have to study le grammarino noooo!!!"
>cope and seethe
>life ruined

[Anonymous No.23127747]

>>23127713
You can translate it in English, but you should say it in Latin first to prove you can.
>>23127732
I was expressing a meta-level opinion, not an object-level opinion about Latin pedagogy.

[Anonymous No.23127751]

>>23127744
>>get mogged by some reddit nigger that watched a dozen videos of some bald dude
>>"nooooo!!! you can't do that! you have to study le grammarino noooo!!!"
>>cope and seethe
>>life ruined
What kind of fantasy is this? I doubt your average redditnigger could even compete with someone who's done 2 years of Latin in uni.

[Anonymous No.23127763]

>>23127751
>What kind of fantasy is this? I doubt your average redditnigger could even compete with someone who's done 2 years of Latin in uni.
I can tell you someone who watches this playlist >>23127021 twice will mog the fuck out of someone who took "beginner Greek" in uni. I know someone who "studied Greek" for two years and he doesn't even remember what οικία means. But he knows what the aorist is and that's all that counts I guess. lmao

[Anonymous No.23127765]

>>23127747
>I was expressing a meta-level opinion, not an object-level opinion about Latin pedagogy
Non intellego. Latine loquere, amabo te!
:3

[Anonymous No.23127772]

>>23127765
Based beyond all human reason

[Anonymous No.23127774]

>>23127763
This is very elaborate cope. I checked episode 29 of that series and they were just introducing λέγω and λαλώ, which appear in chapter 1 of any Greek textbook. Please tell me you're joking. I've never used Hansen and Quinn, but apparently they introduce the aorist within the first few chapters. I wonder when (if ever), they will introduce it in this series.

[Anonymous No.23127780]

>>23127774
Yes, I used a shitty example since I have seen that series is incomplete and is 3 hours long at most. I was thinking of something like Aleph with Beth, which has some 150 chapters. But still, my point stands.

[Anonymous No.23127794]

>>23127780
Aleph and Beth just seems absurd. Biblical Hebrew is an incredibly complex language for one coming from Indo European languages (speaking as some who gave a shot at Biblical Hebrew for a few months). Scholars have learned the language for hundreds of years just fine, without the need for goo-goo-gah-gah babby-tier input.

[Anonymous No.23127797]

>>23127794
>Biblical Hebrew is an incredibly complex language for one coming from Indo European languages

...What the fuck? Like how?

[Anonymous No.23127805]

>>23127765
"Amabo te"? Feminane es?

[Anonymous No.23127818]

>>23127794
>Scholars have learned the language for hundreds of years just fine
No they haven't. I know people who spent five years in a seminary and struggled to translate John 1 (using a fucking dictionary) in their final exam. The way academics "teach" languages is obsolete and a waste of time. People spend ten years of their compulsory education learning English here and most would not be able to order a coffee at a restaurant.

Do you rich someone like Marsilio Ficino or Erasmus wasted a decade of their youth with a grammar book? Long ago people hired tutors that spoke Greek/Latin/whatever to their children 24/7. THAT'S how scholars actually learned these languages, and it's a lot closer to what le ebin bald man is proposing than to the cringey shit you do at uni.

[Anonymous No.23127821]

>>23127818
>Do you rich
Do you think*

[Anonymous No.23127843]

>>23127818
>The way academics "teach" languages is obsolete and a waste of time.
These methods have produced perfectly fine results. The problem is that no one cares to know Latin or Greek anymore. No matter what method you give the students, they will still be indifferent. It's compulsory education that produces shit results. Most people taking Latin/Greek in college are either doing it to fill an elective and will drop it after a semester or because it's required for their degree. I don't doubt the same applies in seminary.
>THAT'S how scholars actually learned these languages, and it's a lot closer to what le ebin bald man is proposing than to the cringey shit you do at uni.
One can obviously learn the languages that way, but like I said, I think indifference is the biggest issue. Plenty of people have no problem learning languages through textbooks, rote and good old translation exercises, myself included.

[Anonymous No.23127844]

>>23127780
>But still, my point stands
do it doesn't retard. you're acting like it was impossible to learn an ancient language before youtube was invented

[Anonymous No.23127847]

>>23127765
夫妾學漢文者也、而所述繫學語之本理、非一語所專。

[Anonymous No.23127867]

>>23127844
>you're acting like it was impossible to learn an ancient language before youtube was invented
Knowledge of Greek in Western Europe was virtually nonexistent until the Byzantine empire fell and Greek-speaking scholars flooded the West. Use your brain: why do you think that was the case? Clue: they didn't have YouTube but they used the same methods.

[Anonymous No.23127890]

>>23127843
>These methods have produced perfectly fine results. The problem is that no one cares to know Latin or Greek anymore. No matter what method you give the students, they will still be indifferent. It's compulsory education that produces shit results. Most people taking Latin/Greek in college are either doing it to fill an elective and will drop it after a semester or because it's required for their degree. I don't doubt the same applies in seminary.
Yes, you can buy a dictionary, read it from cover to cover a hundred times and learn a language that way if you have enough motivation. With enough motivation, you can do anything. But that doesn't mean you are investing your time wisely, specially if your time is limited. But if you swallow a 200-page grammar book and are still unable to read a basic text, 90% of people will lose motivation and give up unless they have an autistic hyperfixation.

[Anonymous No.23127904]

>>23127021
>opens with Assassin's Creed shots
lol

[Anonymous No.23127906]

>>23127890
>But that doesn't mean you are investing your time wisely, specially if your time is limited.
Ok, but my contention is that using a textbook is the most effective way. Getting a solid grounding in a language through textbooks and then diving into input is the best way (though there are cases where total immersion is acceptable, like if you've already studied Italian, French and Spanish, the best way to learn Portuguese would just be through pure immersion). I don't know why you're making everything so black-and-white.

>90% of people will lose motivation and give up unless they have an autistic hyperfixation.
Learning an ancient language requires autistic hyperfixation. It's easy to start seeing results right away in, say, Spanish, but it takes years in Latin. Just a fact of the matter.

[Anonymous No.23127907]

>>23127867
yea im done with you. good night.

[Anonymous No.23127910]

>>23127907
Go memorize some vocabulary lists then.

[Anonymous No.23127914]

>>23127907
Yes, Anon, better to memorize some vocabulary lists instead of spending time in 4chinz! I'm sure you'll be able to read children's tales in Latin soon. Good luck!

[Anonymous No.23127916]

>>23127907
Yes, Anon, better to memorize some vocabulary lists instead of spending time in 4chinz! I'm sure you'll be able to read a children's tale in Latin soon. Two more weeks!

[Anonymous No.23127924]

>>23127906
No, there is One (1) and only one way to learn dead languages and if you do not follow that way precisely you are not learning, just tricking yourself into believing that you have learned because you can read.

[Anonymous No.23127927]

>>23127479
It doesn't have to be exactly perfect to be better than the modern pronunciation.

[Anonymous No.23127929]

how embarrassing
Imagine the rage anon must feel to have posted 3 different versions of that, and all over a rehashed boring internet argument about learning Latin. I bet he shook while typing

[Anonymous No.23127930]

>>23127929
Uh oh, redditsisters, did we get exposed?

[Anonymous No.23127931]

>>23127929
>you just CAN'T delete a two word comment and replace it with a longer one, because that means you're seething 'n sheit

[Anonymous No.23127934]

>>23127906
>It's easy to start seeing results right away in, say, Spanish, but it takes years in Latin. Just a fact of the matter.
Why do you believe they are so different? That seems very implausible to me.

[Anonymous No.23127936]

>>23127906
>It's easy to start seeing results right away in, say, Spanish,
If I sat you down and made you memorize Spanish verb tables, it'd take you two years to learn how to say hello.

[Anonymous No.23127952]

>>23127929
>ha, this'll show him
>hold on, that's what I should have said, that'll really get his goat. wait til he reads this zinger
>no wait, THAT'S what I should have said! oh boy he's really in for it now

[Anonymous No.23127953]

>>23127929
my sides

[Anonymous No.23127956]

>>23127934
They aren't, Latin and Spanish are exactly same, as are the resources and opportunities for each. Well done, you have cracked the code.

[Anonymous No.23127961]

>>23127936
Ya sé hablar español, puto de gringo. Y lo aprendí memorizando verbos y utilizando libros de texto.
>>23127934
The way Latin is structured is so foreign to us. All the modern European languages conform to a general standard — even Russian or modern Greek — to the point that the grammar is pretty similar. But Latin has some elements and concepts that are so alien. The word order is also pretty fucked up, whereas most modern European languages generally follow SVO. Modern European languages also have a large shared vocabulary, whereas Latin has words for concepts that need to be learned, objects that no one uses anymore, etc. It's just a whole different world.

[Anonymous No.23127965]

>>23127929
>better to memorize some vocabulary lists instead of spending time in 4chinz
I mean, he's right about that

[Anonymous No.23127966]

>>23127961
>Ya sé hablar español, puto de gringo. Y lo aprendí
¿Estás seguro de haberlo aprendido, Tyrone?

[Anonymous No.23127983]

>>23127961
Which elements and concepts? Word order can make it more taxing to parse but I don't think the difference is all that dramatic. I'll grant you that the historical context is different but if you're interested in it then learning about it comes pretty easily. As for shared vocabulary, that's part of why Latin is so approachable, no? Plenty of cognates with English.

[Anonymous No.23127988]

Why is my general being raided by fringe-dwelling corn crunchers?

[Anonymous No.23127996]

>>23127988
>uses the phrase bean-hole
>thinks he's not a peasant
Oh my lands!

[Anonymous No.23128000]

>>23127966
Estoy seguro, Pablo, aunque haga algunos errores :)
>>23127983
I think the biggest things are participles, the free word order, the endless chains of adjectives modified by adverbs and such (like in German), indirect discourse. I'm sure there are other things that I'm forgetting too.
>shared vocabulary
Yes, of course, but there's also a ton of new words to be learned. But to be fair, the vocabulary part mostly applies to AG.

[Anonymous No.23128003]

>>23125846
Thanks for the explanation.
>>23127515
Well, you did a good job to me anyway.

[Anonymous No.23128018]

>>23127996
>I've been found out

[Anonymous No.23128062]

>>23128000
Don't forget the biggest one, relative after relative, clauses on end and all embedded in each other for pages on end.
You do know the anon you are responding to will absolutely not reply in good faith and will handwave and b-but muh English, right?

[Anonymous No.23128072]

τίνα τρόπον φαμὲν ἡμεῖς οἱ τὴν τῶν ἀοιδῶν ἠδὲ φιλοσόφων γλῶσσαν κεκασμένοι ἔχειν ὡς τοὺς Ῥωμανίσκους καταπαῦσαι τοῦ συνεχῶς περὶ καπνοῦ φλυαρεῖν τε καὶ τὸ νῆμα πληρῶσαι ληρήματων;

[Anonymous No.23128081]

>>23128072
Only talking in Greek is a good way

[Anonymous No.23128095]

>>23128062
>relative after relative clauses on end and all embedded in each other for pages on end.
Latin and Greek have ruined me. I write like this in English now and everyone hates me for it.

[Anonymous No.23128105]

>>23128072
You use the 'language of the philosophers' to shitpost on 4chan and whine about others. Well done.

[Anonymous No.23128149]

>>23128105
κάρτ' ἀτὰρ τοὐλάχιστον μίνυνθά περ μελετῶ τήνδε, ἤδη γὰρ σήμερον τὰ καθ' ἡμέραν βιβλία ἀνέγνωκα
ἔοπλ' ὑμᾶς ταὐτόν ἠνυκέναι καὶ οὐ μόνον τὸν χρόνον οὔτω κατατρίβειν

[Anonymous No.23128151]

>>23128072
>>23128105
>>23128149
Based AF who is this man

[Anonymous No.23128162]

NEW
>>23128161
>>23128161
>>23128161

[Anonymous No.23128661]

>>23127479
>ugh this pronunciation might be a slightly different accent from the writer of this particular text, like reading a british text in an american accent!
>so lets instead use the pronunciation of a different language more than 2000 years removed instead! surely that will be better!

[Anonymous No.23129004]

Should I learn koine greek or classical Arabic first?

Koine:
Bible in original form (NT the based part)
Hopefully Alexander the great stuff or ptolemaic Egypt etc
Crusader stuff I hope

Arabic:
Most aesthetician Bible and Christian chant music
Golden age texts
Crusader stuff probably but their side not based Crusaders

I know both alphabets but have more reading exp.with Arabic without harakat