/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23080401]

Does anyone know what the fuck he was actually talking about?
>He was antisemetic
>No he actually loved jews
>He hated Christianity
>No he actually liked aspects of Christianity
>He advocates acting like a sadistic psychopath
>No he actually wouldn't like that
>He was an atheist
>No he believed in God
What the FUCK

[Anonymous No.23080430]

>>23080401
Unrelated, what would Marquis de Sade and Nietzsche think of each other?

[Anonymous No.23080439]

>>23080401
Read Nietzsche and find out.

[Anonymous No.23080452]

>>23080439
I am and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm still confused about him. At this point if someone claims they understand him I'm going to assume they misinterpreted him in some way.

[Anonymous No.23080455]

>>23080439
I‘ve read Nietzsche and have fewer answers than when I started (that‘s the point)

[Anonymous No.23080469]

This should explain it

[Anonymous No.23080478]

>>23080452
You are always welcome to make assumptions, I believe there is even a quaint saying about how the process makes an ass out of u and me or something along those lines. What aphorisms are you having issues with?

>>23080455
There is nothing wrong with this.

[Anonymous No.23080553]

>>23080401
Nietzsche believed that the law of non-contradiction was a fiction. He said that the supposed irrefutable primacy of the law of non-contradiction (as Aristotle claimed) presupposes absolute knowledge of Being, which Nietzsche finds absurd. I think an understanding of Nietzsche is achieved through instinct, not reason. It is intuiting the connecting thread across a variety of contradictory statements through instinct. You feel it in your gut, but you likely can’t express it because as soon as you speak, you are “taking a side,” as per the law of non-contradiction. Nietzsche’s teaching is a deep rooted, instinctual understanding that is to be lived through action, not simply thought about in the dead world of abstract ideas.

[Anonymous No.23080556]

>>23080553
i hate philosophyfags so much it's unreal

[Anonymous No.23080569]

>>23080556
Hahah, no worries!

[Anonymous No.23080586]

>>23080553
So does Nietzsche agree with everything he's writing, and at the same time disagreeing with it? Sort of like he's arguing with himself?

[Anonymous No.23080609]

>>23080401
>Does anyone know what the fuck he was actually talking about?
Moral relativism

[Anonymous No.23080630]

>>23080586
Yeah. That’s a pretty common thing for philosophers to do. Aristotle did it a ton. Aquinas did it all the time. You’re your own worst critic, they say.
https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3171.htm
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.7.vii.html

[Anonymous No.23080653]

>>23080401
I really don’t get why people can’t just say he wasn’t coherent. Yes he was a very confused man. Maddened by life and was genuinely just trying to get to the truth.

[Anonymous No.23080655]

>>23080586
I would say that flat-out black and white contradictions would be hard to defend through the “connecting thread” argument I outlined. But I do not recall many if any (at least in my reading) black and white contradictions in Nietzsche’s work. Instead, I find that Nietzsche deals with “apparent contradictions” that exist on a gray scale between extremes. In fact, I would argue that for Nietzsche, the extremes do not actually exist. They are invented by man and then projected onto reality. So only the grayscale has existence for Nietzsche, and as long as you’re not at the extremes, meaning can be found between opposing positions on the grayscale.

[Anonymous No.23080776]

I find it a bit hilarious that no one seems to considered the obvious; he probably just changed his mind a lot. Many of his works are years apart from one another.
It’s possible to think one thing one year, then a different thing the next. It’s not very complicated.

[Anonymous No.23080792]

>>23080776
True, I guess he was human, all too human after all

[Anonymous No.23080928]

1. nietzsche is a moral thinker, not a metaphysical /epistemological one.
2. he subdues every single concept or argument (including point 1) to one core ideal, that of inequality (which is why he's modern as fuck). in his time the modern values of democracy and equal rights were just spreading, he explicitly reacts to that.
3. his hatred for christianity comes from the fact it preaches the opposite values.
4. he explains christianity and platonism as follows: weakness of the elite, a loss of vital instincts.
5. he explains reality as follows: it's what the elites decide, he calls that perspectivism.
6. he explains judaism as follows: the eternal defeated/inferior people ("tschandala") who invented the ideal of equality out of resentment.
7. he explains anti-semitism as follows: tschandala-ish resentment for a successful caste.
8. he explains science as follows: need for objectivity independent from the elites' will hence weakness of instincts. on as side note, nietzsche was completely handicapped at math, we still have his school reports.
9. he explains romanticism and mysticism as follows: need to fly away from life, hence weakness of instincts.
and so on.
based on this he would have been a mediocre writer, BUT he had an incredibly refined taste and prose, his imagination/symbolism was florid, his style was clean and quick, etc. so it's not about his opinions, it's about how he draws/individuates the subjects he talks about.
as a mere thinker he was flawed: you read and read and the you ask him: i got it dude.. but what's your own concrete "aristocratic morality/way of life", practically? and he always answers generically, he mostly blabbers about literature, music and culture. so what's his literature, music and culture, belles lettres aside? nobody knows, he wrote neither novels nor musical compositions. so, his whole works seems to me an enormous, logorrheic prelude to something else's literature and music.
in the end he pays a lot his lack of SPECIFIC ideeas on epistemology, morality, nature, history, logic, science, religion, law, art, etc, with which he could have been part of a distinct culture, as an actual philosopher. nobody today believes in hegel's halfwitted doctrine, but his doctrine (together with is single takes on various subjects, and his prose) conveys to you the feeling of his whole age.

[Anonymous No.23080940]

>>23080553
This is it.

[Anonymous No.23080952]

>>23080553
>think an understanding of Nietzsche is achieved through instinct
>Dude just intuit the real meaning of the contradictory ramblings of this syphillic lunatic
This is why I can’t stand Nietzscheans.

If you understand Nietzsche has anything other than a part poetry part bad philosophy all symptom of his time, then I just think you’re an absolute fucking buffoon.

[Anonymous No.23081023]

>>23080928
His did compose music

[Anonymous No.23081054]

>>23081023
yeah a dozen piano sonatas and some lieder. it doesn't even deserve to be called music honestly.
he also composed some poems like the dionysian dithyrambs but they are almost as embarrassing.
you can consider the ASZ a literary work, but it doesn't do justice to nietzsche's best books. ASZ is a kitsch apery of the religious texts' style, certainly not late 19th century literature.

[Anonymous No.23081168]

>>23080952
What if I said that an instinctual understanding of Nietzsche illustrates the dynamic racial soul of ascending humanity? That the instinct sparks the driving force toward higher forms of life? Because there is a biological project implicit in Nietzsche’s thought. Instinct leads to action that, over time, produce changes that allow for the emergence of higher life. What if this was intentional on Nietzsche’s part? Would that make it better or worse for you?

[Anonymous No.23081333]

>>23080928
>so what's his literature, music and culture, belles lettres aside? nobody knows
He talks about his tastes and preferences all the time, explicitly naming authors, artists, and other figures throughout history, while also implicitly making references to a ton of shit all the time. There's no mystery about it unless you're just uneducated on what he talks about.

[Anonymous No.23081484]

>>23081333
can you even read what i wrote, moron?

[Anonymous No.23082062]

I'm not a schizo. But Captain Beefheart might have been and this stuff is so good andd unique anndd vibey.
https://youtu.be/lSD76Tqz_zE?si=8bUEFxyV0WO98674 [Open]
https://youtu.be/q_E__tmYf7U?si=JH8wE5GguQlCBPwI
Look at how this motherfucker moves. He's basically the King Diamond of blues.
https://youtu.be/dq6fCOGyVJg?si=ESXqk_bvuv66v0HM
Any discussion of Beefheart would be wrong without mention if his early avant-garde dissoshit album made by a bunch of hippies that he forced to eat wordfilter beans.
Someone actually managed to learn the first song on guitar. Crazy riffs. I heard he would just whistle shit at the hippies and tell them to play it.
https://youtu.be/E5Nk1pDyNIc?si=zUspRzK2z_fb4DvT

[Anonymous No.23082079]

>>23082062
Huh

[Anonymous No.23082087]

>>23080401
Nietzsche is easily understood when you fully embrace the logical consequences of the theory of evolution and start to view humans as an animal species that is evolving. For example, when Nietzsche says that truth is will to power, this simply means that truth is whatever belief is advantageous to an organism of a certain type, which is why people can have different truths, as certain beliefs are more beneficial depending on the person. The same applies to morality and so on. It’s all a game of survival, that’s all.

[Anonymous No.23082246]

>>23081484
You wrote that no one knows what his "literature, music and culture" is, even though he goes to GREAT LENGTHS to explain this. If you read Nietzsche and you don't know his style, you didn't understand what you read.

[Anonymous No.23082269]

>>23082079
Hunger music.
https://youtu.be/mWibgBAuV9g?si=gYGg5IuOi6guTxuS

[Anonymous No.23082532]

I mistook this for /mu/. My bad.

[Anonymous No.23082568]

>>23080928
But if anti-semites and semites are practically exact but mirrored copies of each other, on what basis did he admire the latter but loathe the former aside from anti-semites being on the losing side at the time he was alive? If anti-semites won, would he have admired them and loathed the semites, because dominance legitimizes everything and loss delegitimizes everything? What need is there for qualitative judgment at all when those judgments are exclusively dependent on the relations of power between various groups at a given time and place?

[Anonymous No.23082571]

>>23080401
>In his novel, Submission, Michel Houellebecq refers to a philosophy dissertation, held at the Catholic University of Louvain-la-Neuve, entitled Guénon lecteur de Nietzsche [Guenon Reader of Nietzsche] by Robert Rediger. Over the past several months, I have made several efforts to track down a copy. A dear friend, an employee of the State Department stationed in Brussels, managed to locate a photocopy for me. When she stopped by on the way to visit her family stateside for Christmas, I was able to inspect it during her layover at the airport. Although there was not much time, I tried to extract its main themes.

>The first thing to point out is the deep influence that Rediger’s dissertation had on Houellebecq himself. This is shown in the main themes of the novel as expressed through the voice of Francois, his alter ego. Furthermore, the dissertation brought out several inchoate themes that were filled out in Rediger’s later writings. Obviously, Rene Guenon was never a “reader” of Nietzsche. Rediger came to that conclusion when he wrote: I don’t think Guenon was influenced by Nietzsche especially. His rejection of the modern world was just as vehement as Nietzsche’s, but it had radically different sources.

[Anonymous No.23082573]

>>23082571
Wrong thread. Ignore.

[Anonymous No.23082585]

>>23080401
He was the original shitpsting incel chud. If he were born into this modern world, he would definitely post here. Him and Lovecraft.

[Anonymous No.23082595]

>Any woman with an opinion is either barren or a lesbian.

[Anonymous No.23082834]

>>23080401
I do, but I'm not going to tell anyone.

[Anonymous No.23083035]

Friends, to avoid many of the faulty interpretations I've seen in this thread read this interpretation of Nietzsche.

Instead of banging your head on the Will to Power you need to start small and get an overview by an author who actually wants you to understand the core of Nietzsche's self-surpassing philosophy.

[Anonymous No.23083042]

>>23080553
Unfortunately, this is what you end up with. He was a ball of contradictions, made worse by politically motivated interpreters stretching his work in completely different directions. From the few books of his I've read, he's a strange, spiteful, neurotic man with an unparalleled vision of greater things for mankind.

[Anonymous No.23083044]

>>23080439
>>23080401
he was a cuck nuff said

[Anonymous No.23083045]

>>23081054
Yeah, most of his work outside of his books is plain embarrassing in its mediocrity. But perhaps we view it that way because his books are so much stronger.

[Anonymous No.23083063]

>>23080401
>Does anyone know what the fuck he was actually talking about?
"A truth which only glideth into fine ears, he calleth falsehood and trumpery. Verily, he believeth only in Gods that make a great noise in the world!
Full of clattering buffoons is the market-place,—and the people glory in their great men! These are for them the masters of the hour.
But the hour presseth them; so they press thee. And also from thee they want Yea or Nay. Alas! thou wouldst set thy chair betwixt For and Against?
On account of those absolute and impatient ones, be not jealous, thou lover of truth! Never yet did truth cling to the arm of an absolute one.
On account of those abrupt ones, return into thy security: only in the market-place is one assailed by Yea? or Nay?
Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what hath fallen into their depths."

>>He was an atheist
>>No he believed in God
"And all the Gods then laughed, and shook upon their thrones, and exclaimed: “Is it not just divinity that there are Gods, but no God?”
He that hath an ear let him hear."

[Anonymous No.23083072]

>>23080401
>>He advocates acting like a sadistic psychopath
>>No he actually wouldn't like that
"When power becometh gracious and descendeth into the visible—I call such condescension, beauty.
And from no one do I want beauty so much as from thee, thou powerful one: let thy goodness be thy last self-conquest.
All evil do I accredit to thee: therefore do I desire of thee the good.
Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings, who think themselves good because they have crippled paws!"

"So alien are ye in your souls to what is great, that to you the Superman would be frightful in his goodness!
And ye wise and knowing ones, ye would flee from the solar-glow of the wisdom in which the Superman joyfully batheth his nakedness!
Ye highest men who have come within my ken! this is my doubt of you, and my secret laughter: I suspect ye would call my Superman—a devil!"

[Anonymous No.23083078]

>>23083063
>>23083072
>words words words words
thats a lotta words to say he is a cuck

[Anonymous No.23083081]

>>23083078
>thats a lotta words
"He who knoweth the reader, doeth nothing more for the reader. Another century of readers—and spirit itself will stink.
Every one being allowed to learn to read, ruineth in the long run not only writing but also thinking.
Once spirit was God, then it became man, and now it even becometh populace."

[Anonymous No.23084276]

>>23080553
his gut apparently leads him all over the place
>Nietzsche's viewpoint is initially negative towards humans and human intellect; however, halfway through the piece Nietzsche contradicts himself by expressing a positive perspective on human intellect which begs readers with the question of why Nietzsche contradicts himself and which viewpoint he truly presents.

[Anonymous No.23084293]

>>23080630
I could care less about Aristotle and Aquinas, but your statement appears to be false. You google "Nietzsche contradicts himself" and you have all these pieces on it. it's a big part of who he is. But when you look at Aristotle and Aquinas, it's the opposite.

In other worlds the reasons the greats are considered great was because they didn't contradict themselves. The reason Nietzsche is taken is because he's the only big name in philosophy that is well-known for contradicting himself all the time

[Anonymous No.23084303]

I'll give you very brief answers. Basically, take my word for it.

>He was antisemetic
Yes, because Jews created slave morality and destroyed Rome and Europe by poisoning their minds.
>No he actually loved jews
He respected their will to power and thought that it would be a good idea to not become enemies with them any further since all they wanted, at least according to Nietzsche, was to be allowed to live in Europe--which Nietzsche thought was a reasonable solution if it would prevent them from conquering Europe, like they ended up doing.
>He hated Christianity
Yes, because of slave morality.
>No he actually liked aspects of Christianity
Yes, because it gave people a reason to continue on living.
>He advocates acting like a sadistic psychopath
Yes, but also not exactly. Nietzsche thought the master should just do whatever they wanted. If they wanted to act like that, then they should.
>No he actually wouldn't like that
Would take a long time to explain, but Nietzsche also recognised the fact that such behavior would only cause the slaves to become resentful and thus result in a slave revolt against the masters--which Nietzsche thought was bad.
>He was an atheist
Not exactly. Nietzsche never states explicitly that God does not exist.
>No he believed in God
Not exactly, he merely believed that the notion of higher law that conditioned the masses was a good thing.

[Anonymous No.23084344]

>>23084303
>He respected their will to power and thought that it would be a good idea to not become enemies with them any further since all they wanted, at least according to Nietzsche, was to be allowed to live in Europe--which Nietzsche thought was a reasonable solution if it would prevent them from conquering Europe, like they ended up doing.
Pseud detected.
"They themselves know best that a conquest of Enrope or any act of violence are quite out of the question: but they know that, some time or other, Europe may fall as a ripe fruit into their hands if they would only just extend then. Meanwhile it is necessary that they should distinguish themselves in all departments of European distinction and stand among the foremost: till they shall have advanced so far as to determine that which shall give distinction. Then they will be called the inventors and guides of the people of Europe, and cease to offend their sense of proportion. Where shall this accumulated wealth of great impressions, which forms the Jewish history in every Jewish family, this wealth of passions, virtues, resolutions, resignations, struggles, victories of all sorts—where shall it find an outlet, if not in great intellectual people and work? On that day when the Jews will be able to show as their handiwork such jewels and golden vessels as the European nations of shorter and less thorough experience either can nor could produce, when Israel will have turned its eternal vengeance into an eternal blessing of Europe: then once more that seventh day will appear, when the old God of the Jews may rejoice in Himself, His creation, and His chosen people and all, all of us will rejoice with Him !"

[Anonymous No.23084348]

>>23080401
The confusion comes from the fact that a lot of people who criticize his work have never read his work.

[Anonymous No.23084361]

>>23084344
He literally states it in B&E.§§251.

[Anonymous No.23084842]

>>23084361
Great aphorism. Here, just as in the aphorism the other guy quoted, Nietzsche is intrigued by the idea of racial mixing between Jews and the Germanic nobility. He ends the aphorism by saying,

>But here it behooves me to break off my cheerful Germanifications and banquet speech: since I am already touching on what is serious to me, on the "European problem," as I understand it, on the cultivation of a new caste that will rule over Europe.

So, ultimately, Nietzsche is addressing "Europeans" and it is clear that he distinguishes between "European" and "Jew." He therefore considers "Jew" as something separate from his project and a Jew-European mixture as an "interesting experiment" in his ultimate aim of creating a "new caste that will rule over Europe." He's "throwing the idea out there." Key takeaways: Nietzsche's project is a "European" project, not a "Jewish" one; and we are living in the world where Nietzsche's "idea" played out in reality. It would be interesting to know what he would have thought of the world today. But of course we can compare the world today with his countless other writings that didn't deal with the Jewish Question. No question he'd be displeased.

[Anonymous No.23085281]

>>23084842
>he distinguishes between "European" and "Jew." He therefore considers "Jew" as something separate from his project
He also distinguishes between "European" and "German."

"Finally we should understand with sufficient profundity Napoleon’s surprise when he came to visit Goethe: that reveals what people had thought about the “German spirit” for centuries. “Voilá un homme!” [There’s a man!]—which is, in effect, saying: That is really a man! And I had expected only a German!"

>Key takeaways: Nietzsche's project is a "European" project, not a "Jewish" one;
Key takeaways: Nietzsche's project is a "European" project, not a "German" one;

>He therefore considers "Jew" as something separate from his project
No.

[Anonymous No.23085329]

>>23084842
>So, ultimately, Nietzsche is addressing "Europeans"
"I am not to be a herdsman, I am not to be a gravedigger. Not any more will I discourse unto the people; for the last time have I spoken unto the dead.
With the creators, the reapers, and the rejoicers will I associate: the rainbow will I show them, and all the stairs to the Superman."

"Creating ones were first of all peoples, and only in late times individuals; verily, the individual himself is still the latest creation.
Peoples once hung over them tables of the good. Love which would rule and love which would obey, created for themselves such tables.
Older is the pleasure in the herd than the pleasure in the ego: and as long as the good conscience is for the herd, the bad conscience only saith: ego.
Verily, the crafty ego, the loveless one, that seeketh its advantage in the advantage of many—it is not the origin of the herd, but its ruin."

"But a home have I found nowhere: unsettled am I in all cities, and decamping at all gates.
Alien to me, and a mockery, are the present-day men, to whom of late my heart impelled me; and exiled am I from fatherlands and motherlands.
Thus do I love only my children’s land, the undiscovered in the remotest sea: for it do I bid my sails search and search.
Unto my children will I make amends for being the child of my fathers: and unto all the future—for this present-day!—"

"And verily, ye famous wise ones, ye servants of the people! Ye yourselves have advanced with the people’s spirit and virtue—and the people by you! To your honour do I say it!
But the people ye remain for me, even with your virtues, the people with purblind eyes—the people who know not what spirit is!"

[Anonymous No.23085421]

>>23085281
>No.
Explain.

[Anonymous No.23085426]

>>23082246
you are just too low iq to understand a subject-verd-object sentence, leave me alone. i explicitly said "HIS literature" not his favorite books, mongoloid. the context and the conclusions of my post made it clear that i was NOT talking about his tastes.
>>23082568
>on what basis did he admire the latter
He literally didn't. in the ASZ he made it clear his definitive thought about the jews: negative.
he "admired" certain qualities about them, like their attachment to existence. also he used the jews and the poles to "scold" the germans, it's a typical rhetorical device he took from pastors.
>>23083045
yeah, my points stands though: his whole work is no more than an introduction for someone else's

[Anonymous No.23085446]

>>23085421
It has been explained: "European" is something that is yet to be created. Out of Germans, out of French, out of Jews, etc.
It is mutts that produce Caesars.

"The man from an age of dissolution, which mixes the races all together, such a man has an inheritance of a multiple ancestry in his body, that is, conflicting and frequently not merely conflicting drives and standards of value which war among themselves and rarely give each other rest—such a man of late culture and disturbed lights will typically be a weaker man <...> but if the opposition and war in such a nature work like one more charm or thrill in life—and bring along, in addition to this nature’s powerful and irreconcilable drives, <...> then arise those delightfully amazing and unimaginable people, those enigmatic men predestined for victory and temptation, whose most beautiful expressions are Alcibiades and Caesar <...> They appear precisely in the same ages when that weaker type, with its demands for quiet, steps into the foreground: both types belong with one another and arise from the same causes." (BGE 200)

[Anonymous No.23085465]

>>23080401
Stop thinking in black and white.

[Anonymous No.23085470]

>>23085446
not him, imagine dealing with nietszche by taking an aphorism out of context and using it as a synthesis of his thought on a certain subject.
in his philosophy, the jewish people are the symbol itself of the slave morality, period. the slave morality is nietzsche's ultimate object of criticism.
he didn't just dislike the jews, he was also a racist in general, and his praises for de gobineau's book is well known from his letters.

[Anonymous No.23085478]

>>23085426
>in the ASZ he made it clear his definitive thought about the jews
"Verily, my brother, if thou knewest but a people’s need, its land, its sky, and its neighbour, then wouldst thoudivine the law of its surmountings, and why it climbeth up that ladder to its hope.
“Always shalt thou be the foremost and prominent above others: no one shall thy jealous soul love, except a friend”— that made the soul of a Greek thrill: thereby went he his way to greatness.
“To speak truth, and be skilful with bow and arrow”— so seemed it alike pleasing and hard to the people from whom cometh my name—the name which is alike pleasing and hard to me.
“To honour father and mother, and from the root of the soul to do their will”—this table of surmounting hung another people over them, and became powerful and permanent thereby.
“To have fidelity, and for the sake of fidelity to risk honour and blood, even in evil and dangerous courses”— teaching itself so, another people mastered itself, and thus mastering itself, became pregnant and heavy with great hopes."

In other words, great peoples of the past: greeks, persians, jews, germans.

>his definitive thought about
his definitive thought about them is this >>23085329
The peoples are no more.

[Anonymous No.23085481]

>>23080553
>>23080940
It's Christianity through irony. He had priests on both sides of the family. Nietzsche was instinctively a Lutheran priest.

[Anonymous No.23085487]

>>23085470
>in his philosophy, the jewish people are the symbol itself of the slave morality, period.
"although it’s fair enough also to add that on the foundation of this *fundamentally dangerous* form of human existence, the priestly, for the first time the human being became, in general, *an interesting animal*, that here the human soul first attained *depth* in a higher sense and became *evil*—and, indeed, these are the two basic reasons for humanity’s superiority, up to now, over other animals! "

[Anonymous No.23085495]

I feel like we are in need of a new literary custom that is a single page with a specific latin title and with that we know everything in there the author says he accepts it to be known as irrevocable about himself. for example:

persona integra(integral persona)
I hate women, niggers and jews.

don't you think it would be so helpful? we could just refer to any author's persona integra to refute anyone's ruminations whether he was actually a feminist or not.

[Anonymous No.23085501]

>>23085487
>>23085470
>the symbol itself of the slave morality
The are the leaders of slave morality. They remain to this day.

That makes them masters.

[Anonymous No.23085508]

>>23085478
lmao, stop spamming quotes as if they proved your point, when they are completely unrelated. there are dozens and dozens of fragments where he explicitly says the worst of the worst on the jews.
move on.

[Anonymous No.23085536]

>>23085470
>he was also a racist in general
>>23085446
>It is mutts that produce Caesars.
In the dog-breeding eugenical future-goals-oriented sense, yes. Not in the essentialist ancestry-fap sense.

[Anonymous No.23085549]

>>23085536
>Not in the essentialist ancestry-fap sense.
No he literally has a section on how race mixed individuals hate themselves because of their inherent contradictions.

[Anonymous No.23085562]

>>23085446
In other words, the un-mixed Jew is separate from Nietzsche's project, which was my point, but I do understand what you're saying. In a sense, he addresses the Jews in so far as they mix with Europeans. His message to the Jews: mix with Europeans and lets see what happens! Of course, we live in a reality where such people have power and ironically propogate a value system contrary to Nietzsche's. I do not think Nietzsche was right about everything and he was clearly off the mark here. Jewish Europeans may be "smart" but they certainly are not the antidote to decaying and decadent humanity.

[Anonymous No.23085578]

>>23082087
>this simply means that truth is whatever belief is advantageous to an organism of a certain type, which is why people can have different truths, as certain beliefs are more beneficial depending on the person.
Truths aren't beliefs. Truths are absolute, beliefs aren't. Organisms only live if they choose to keep trying, that's why Afghans lived in caves for 20 years while fighting a technologically and economically superior opponent, they had the power of belief, even though they should've logically surrendered.

[Anonymous No.23085580]

>>23085549
>individuals hate themselves because of their inherent contradictions
"I tell you: one must still have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: ye have still chaos in you.
Alas! There cometh the time when man will no longer give birth to any star. Alas! There cometh the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself.
Lo! I show you the last man.
“What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?”—so asketh the last man and blinketh.
The earth hath then become small, and on it there hoppeth the last man who maketh everything small. His species is ineradicable like that of the ground-flea; the last man liveth longest.
“We have discovered happiness”—say the last men, and blink thereby."

"Thou lonesome one, thou goest the way of the creating one: a God wilt thou create for thyself out of thy seven devils!
Thou lonesome one, thou goest the way of the loving one: thou lovest thyself, and on that account despisest thou thyself, as only the loving ones despise.
To create, desireth the loving one, because he despiseth! What knoweth he of love who hath not been obliged to despise just what he loved!"

[Anonymous No.23085643]

>>23085501
Anon, do you want a quote actually and explicitly related to the jews? Here the letter to Koselitz of May 31 1888:
... I owe an essential lesson to these last weeks: I found the Manu code in a French translation, which was made in India under the exact control of the most distinguished priests and scholars . This absolutely Aryan product, a priestly code of morality based on the Vedas, the castes and ancient origins - not pessimistic, however priestly - complements my ideas about religion in the strangest way. I confess that everything else that we have of great moral laws appears to me to be an imitation and even a caricature of it: first of all Egyptianism; but even Plato just seems to me to be well- honored by a Brahmin in all the main points . The Jews appear like a Chandala race, which learns from their masters the principles on which a priesthood becomes ruler and organizes a people ... The Chinese, too, seem to have produced their Confucius and Laotse under the impression of this classic ancient code . The medieval organization looks like a whimsical keys to win all the ideas again, on which the ancient Indo-Aryan society rested - but m it pessimistic Werthen that from the bottom of racial decadence have their origin. - Here, too, the Jews only seem to be "mediators" - they do not invent anything.
So much, my dear friend, to show how much I would like to talk to you. Tuesday departure. -
Sincerely
yours, Nietzsche.

Nietzsche's letters are important to explain his thought because they are intimate and they have to be straightforward. I translated from german with google because i don't an english version of it and i don't even think it exists.

[Anonymous No.23085659]

>>23085643
(same) so, no. they are not the masters or the leaders of anything. they "cheinen auch hier bloß „Vermittler“ — sie erfinden nichts."
End of story.

[Anonymous No.23085666]

>>23085643
Jews either makes themselves sick to make you sick or make you sick while they stay healthy.

Or make you sick while making themselves sick them get out of the sickness while leaving you sick. Wittgenstein did this.

They're pretty slick.

[Anonymous No.23085672]

>>23085659
>"cheinen
*"scheinen

[Anonymous No.23085697]

>>23080401
if you read Nietzsche these /lit/ troll questions wouldn't be the ones that come to your head, try again false flagging cunt

[Anonymous No.23085700]

>>23085643
>I found the Manu code in a French translation, which was made in India under the exact control of the most distinguished priests and scholars . This absolutely Aryan product, a priestly code of morality based on the Vedas, the castes and ancient origins - not pessimistic, however priestly - complements my ideas about religion in the strangest way.
So based. Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous No.23085718]

>>23080401
Nietzsche can be described with one word: anti-dogmatic. Everything else is noise.

[Anonymous No.23085723]

>>23080556
Sounds like a personal problem

[Anonymous No.23085730]

>>23085700
It's absolutely fucking retarded. If there's anything more overcivilized than the West it's the East.

Nietzsche was a mommy whipped boy who couldn't find his freedom -- his manhood -- his independence. So he self-sabotages with even more overcivilizatiom.

He needed to go to Africa hunt some elephant and fuck some Negresses to get the mammas boy out of him.

[Anonymous No.23085733]

>>23085700
you're welcome, at least that wan't your typical 2nd hand /lit/ quote. i actually studied nietzsche and my conclusion about it was: close whatever book of nietzsche's you are reading, and study and listen to music. he would have agreed with this. literature is just an inferior form of art.

[Anonymous No.23085743]

>>23085733
Shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.23085752]

>>23085733
>at least that wan't your typical 2nd hand /lit/ quote
Definitely wasn't. I'm hunting down the original German so I can look at it more later. Vielen Dank nochmal!

[Anonymous No.23085779]

>>23085752
I don't know whether there is such a thing online, of course you can find that quote in german on secondary sources :

https://books.google.it/books?id=O7bc_-4Lr2QC&pg=PA63&dq=scheinen+auch+hier+blo%C3%9F+Vermittler+%E2%80%94+sie+finden+nichts&hl=it&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHnafp47OEAxWWgv0HHY6RDUkQ6AF6BAgBEAI#v=onepage&q=scheinen%20auch%20hier%20blo%C3%9F%20Vermittler%20%E2%80%94%20sie%20finden%20nichts&f=false

I have this CD-ROM in my library (it's a nice series, it features also Schopenhauer and others), my mother uses it at uni in her lessons:

https://www.infosoftware.de/iswSHOP/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1869

[Anonymous No.23085786]

>>23085779
>my mother uses it at uni in her lessons
Holy Jesus.

[Anonymous No.23085787]

>>23080553
Sounds like a woman.

[Anonymous No.23085792]

>>23085787
He was a mommas boy.
>23085779 Like this faggot.

[Anonymous No.23085794]

>>23080928
>nietzsche was completely handicapped at math, we still have his school reports
Nooooo

[Anonymous No.23085810]

>>23085794
eheheh, it's kind of funny because when nietzsche published the "wagnerian/romantic" birth of the tragedy, his old school-mate and then famous philologist u. von wilamowitz (a real genius, also the school chad) answered to it with a pamphlet where he mocked nietzsche for that reason, his poorest math marks.

[Anonymous No.23085828]

[Anonymous No.23085843]

>>23085828
Math is primitive. It's true.

[Anonymous No.23085849]

>>23080556
Fuck off then faggot

[Anonymous No.23085859]

>>23085779
If anyone is curious, the 1888 letter to Heinrich Köselitz can be found here:

http://www.nietzschesource.org/#eKGWB/BVN-1888

I'm bookmarking that CD for later reference. I've always wanted to dive into the Nachlass, and that looks like a great resource!

[Anonymous No.23085884]

>>23080401
>Hegel: Absolute Spirit [Being]: Conscious
>Mustache: Absolute Will [Becoming]: Unconscious

[Anonymous No.23085898]

>>23080928
>he explains anti-semitism as follows: tschandala-ish resentment for a successful caste.

Still hasn't arrived: if true, the appropriate thing to do is throw off the yolk of insincere post-christian churchianity. His problem with papa Wagner was that he didn't go all the way in either direction.

[Anonymous No.23085899]

>>23080401
Nietzsche thought antisemites were ridiculous and jealous. He himself would be “antisemetic” by todays standards, because he did have a lot of negative things to say about Jews. You have to understand that when Nietzsche says that a group is evil, that does not mean bad or invaluable.

To the point of whether or not he advocates acting like a psychopath, he advocates that you shoot for far reaching goals and through this you are outside the bounds of justice. He routinely says to be magnanimous and polite. Nietzsche frowns on those who are selfish for base gains but smiles on those who push beyond typical morality for further advances.

He was an atheist, I don’t know how you came to believe he believed in God.

If you don’t understand Nietzsche you should read the following (* is essential):

*Most of Schopenhauer
*Heraclitus
La Rochefoucauld
Montaigne
Goethe’s Faust

Then read from Schopenhauer As Educator onwards. Birth of Tragedy is really unnecessary. Nietzsche is one of those philosophers were the development of his ideas are important and you need to read almost all of his work.

[Anonymous No.23085929]

>>23085899
>advocates acting like a psychopath
You can't act like a psychopath without becoming one. Psychopathy is defined by brain damage.

[Anonymous No.23085973]

>>23085929
Psychopathy isn’t a real diagnosis and just exists as a boogeyman for the media and normalfags to mentally systematize why people do things they don’t like.

[Anonymous No.23085991]

>>23085973
what if my thing is to castrate, rape and murder psychopaths?

[Anonymous No.23085997]

>>23085929
>Psychopathy is defined by brain damage.
That sentence is so stupid that it's convinced me that you must be brain damaged.

[Anonymous No.23086072]

Reminder, he was an allegorical writer not a Wikipedia page

[Anonymous No.23086138]

>>23085973
>>23085991
>>23085997
Psychopathy literally lowers your IQ. If you were ij constant life threatening situations your brain would atrophy.

That;s why war veterans can't work anymore. They develop brain damaged psychopathic lifestyles.

[Anonymous No.23086152]

>>23086138
That’s nice, but it’s still not something you can be diagnosed with.

[Anonymous No.23086157]

>>23086152
Of course it is. A simple brain scan suffices.

[Anonymous No.23086162]

>>23086157
No, you can’t. It’s not a real diagnosis.

[Anonymous No.23086169]

>>23086162
It's just brain damage.

[Anonymous No.23086244]

>>23086162
>>23086169
All the cluster Bs are brain damage.

[Anonymous No.23086265]

>>23080401
The weak and ill constituted shall perish.

[Anonymous No.23086315]

>>23086244
Haven't seen you in a while cluster B anon.

[Anonymous No.23086339]

>>23086315
It's the first time I've ever mentioned that.

[Anonymous No.23086344]

>>23086339
My apologies, there used to be an anon here who would mention them frequently.

[Anonymous No.23086350]

>>23086344
They are trauma based though and trauma is brain damage. So many "psychology" terms are really just medical issues. All the cluster Bs are psychopathic and psychopathy is just an adaptation to trauma. Just like your feet get calluses.

[Anonymous No.23086372]

>>23080556
Skill issue

[Anonymous No.23086381]

>>23086350
There is a tendency to use the terms psychopath interchangeably with ASPD due to older DSM classifications. ASPD is generally accredited to environmental and genetic factors, excessive amounts of neglect, abuse, or overexposure to life threatening scenarios, and severe enough head injuries. The way they structure cluster B these days it is also likely an individual may display more overlap and be less likely to fall into one exact disorder. The modern classification system also focuses more on behavior than intent which was the previous standard for labeling someone a psychopath. I suppose this is sort of a way of saying if you want to use the modern DSM methodology you may just want to use the modern term of ASPD since psychopath is more likely to create needless debate due to definitional perception.

[Anonymous No.23086382]

>>23086138
>Psychopathy literally lowers your IQ
Is that how it happened to you?

[Anonymous No.23086407]

>>23086381
>environmental and genetic factors, excessive amounts of neglect, abuse, or overexposure to life threatening scenarios, and severe enough head injuries.
All the cluster Bs.

[Anonymous No.23086409]

>>23086381
>ASPD is generally accredited to environmental and genetic factors, excessive amounts of neglect, abuse, or overexposure to life threatening scenarios, and severe enough head injuries.
So it's really true that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Anonymous No.23086418]

>>23086382
>>23086409
>So it's really true that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Not really; only if you have a really high IQ to begin with can you afford to lose some intelligence to gain callousness.

[Anonymous No.23086423]

>>23086407
Yeah the way they structure the current DSM an individual who meets the criteria for one will likely meet criteria for others as well.

>>23086409
If not stronger then more powerful.

[Anonymous No.23086432]

>>23086407
>>23086423
And really Cluster As and Cs too. All health problems come from trauma.

Heavily traumatized people will have many symptoms spanning every possible diagnoses. The DSM is primitive.

[Anonymous No.23086436]

>>23086418
>if you have a really high IQ to begin with
Yeah, but what about you?

[Anonymous No.23086439]

>trauma is... le bad

[Anonymous No.23086446]

>>23086436
It's high.

>>23086439
It really is.

[Anonymous No.23086449]

>>23086446
The Last Man truly does live the longest.

[Anonymous No.23086458]

>>23086449
Don't play the tough guy. Look at how many tough guy nam veterans ended up on the streets. Nietzsche was delusional.

[Anonymous No.23086464]

>>23086458
They still lived a fuller life than you ever will.

[Anonymous No.23086470]

>>23086464
I'm a fucking pimp.

[Anonymous No.23086493]

>>23080401
Reading Nietzsche's is a hobby. Unlike other hobbies the reader imagines himself to be a virile, masculine force of nature, while sitting in the corner and reading a book. Every word is pored over and argued about. But no one achieves any real power. No one lives the life they imagine for themselves. Possibly because attempting and achieving those things is painful, boring and risky. Better to sit in the corner, read, imagine, and argue about the words you read.

[Anonymous No.23086496]

Christcucks and Mudslimes ruined this board.

[Anonymous No.23086515]

>>23086493
>>23086496
Nietzsche's a fucking moron. Look at boxers and mma fighters. Once they get KOd it's over.

Trauma is real and permanent. What doesn't kill you retires you.

[Anonymous No.23086742]

>>23086493
>Unlike other hobbies the reader imagines himself to be a virile, masculine force of nature
"thankful even for poverty and richly changing sickness, because they always free us from some rule or other and its “prejudice,” thankful to god, devil, sheep, and worm in us, curious to a fault, researchers all the way to cruelty, with fingers spontaneously working for the unimaginable, with teeth and stomachs for the most indigestible things,"

"Being sick teaches us things—we don’t doubt that—it’s even more instructive than being healthy. The person who makes us ill appears to us nowadays to be more important even than any medical people and “saviours.” We violate ourselves now, no doubt about it, we nutcrackers of the soul, we questioning and questionable people, as if life were nothing else but cracking nuts. And in so doing, we must necessarily become every day constantly more questionable, more worthy of being questioned, and in the process perhaps also worthier—to live? All good things were once bad things; every original sin has become an original virtue."

>virile, masculine force
" Infertility itself tends to encourage a certain masculinity of taste, for man is, if I may say so, “the infertile animal.” "

>while sitting in the corner and reading a book.
"More than that, he fears being disturbed by lightning and recoils from the unprotected and totally isolated and abandoned tree on which all bad weather can discharge its mood, all moods discharge their bad weather. His “maternal” instinct, the secret love for what is growing in him, directs him to places where his need to think of himself is removed, in the same sense that the maternal instinct in women has up to now generally kept her in a dependent situation. Ultimately they demand little enough, these philosophers. Their motto is “Whoever owns things is owned”—not, as I must say again and again, from virtue, from an admirable desire for modest living and simplicity, but because their highest master demands *that* of them, demands astutely and unrelentingly. He cares for only one thing and for that gathers up and holds everything—time, power, love, interest. This sort of man doesn’t like to be disturbed by hostile things and by friendships; he easily forgets or scoffs. To him martyrdom seems something in bad taste—“*to suffer* for the truth”—he leaves that to the ambitious and the stage heroes of the spirit and anyone else who has time enough for it (—they themselves, the philosophers, have something *to do* for the truth). <...> Finally, as far as “chastity” concerns philosophers, this sort of spirit apparently keeps its fertility in something other than in children; perhaps they also keep the continuity of their names elsewhere, their small immortality (among philosophers in ancient India people spoke with even more presumption, “What’s the point of offspring to the man whose soul is the world?”)"

[Anonymous No.23086749]

>>23080401
Filtered midwit.

[Anonymous No.23086801]

>>23080401
you are simplifying / concentrating on less important aspects
most important thing about Nietsche's philosophy was how we lost all order and our preconceptions about how morality, society and world works and world divided between active nihilists (who want to destroy false values) and passive nihilists (who cling to values they don't even believe or practice -> look christians in europe for example)
without values there is no way to judge and orient in the world so he proposes his own religion which is allegiance to the world as it is, to make world your God

[Anonymous No.23087065]

>>23085426
Wasn't there that aphorism from Daybreak which is all about him sucking semite dick, how he thinks they are the best and the greatest ever? If he disliked anything about them it was exclusively their religion and morality, he never sad anything bad about them as a people. Unlike most objects of his polemics.

[Anonymous No.23087092]

People only cared about Nietzsche because referencing him in arguments was the pre-internet intellectual equivalent of using chad vs. virgin or wojak memes.

[Anonymous No.23087101]

>>23080401
I mean thats unironically all pretty accurate and the reason it makes him so good is because exactly, he was a human being, a walking contradiction

[Anonymous No.23087105]

>>23087065
He absolutely said bad things about them as people at times. But on the whole he respected them, he just knew the situation needed to be dealt with.

[Anonymous No.23087388]

>>23080469
I was unable to find this quote in nietzsches works (nietzschesource.org)

[Anonymous No.23087571]

>>23086515
Trauma is a spiritual wound that has not yet healed. If it heals, your spirit becomes much stronger than before; if not, you remain a member of the undead, something in between life and death. Nietzsche was based and life-pilled, while you are gay and death-pilled.

[Anonymous No.23087582]

>>23086801
>so he proposes his own religion
Which isn't really how religion works, making him a passive nihilist.