The sun also rises

[Anonymous No.23037739]

I have rarely read a book I liked as much as this since I first read it. Even maybe 10 years later, I still think about the characters and themes from this book, especially when I'm living abroad (which I was when I first read it). Does anyone have a book that gives a similar feeling? For them or hopefully for me.

[Anonymous No.23037816]

>>23037739
It was my favorite book in high school too. It was one of the only ones I read

[Anonymous No.23037821]

>>23037739
Now grow up and read some Stein, which is actually highbrow unlike Hemingtrash

[Anonymous No.23037825]

>>23037821
Shut up YouTube shill

[Anonymous No.23037828]

>>23037821
What if Hemingway raped Gertrude Stein how would that affect his legacy

[Anonymous No.23037883]

I'm am far from high school at this point, however even now I find myself wanting to go to a bullfight after reading this book years ago. I live in South America now but in one of the countries where its illegal and when I've been in countries where its legal (including Spain) it was always in the winter, when it was the off season.

Also, just give me some fucking recommendations. This book isn't twilight. Stop being contrarians and help someone find some books to read.

[Anonymous No.23037995]

Hemingway's memoir A Moveable Feast, is about life was like for aspiring writers in Paris. It involves many notable figures of the time, such as John Dos Passos, F. Scott Fitzgerald (and his wife Zelda), James Joyce, Ezra Pound, etc

[Anonymous No.23038053]

>>23037739
is this the book where the main character's dick doesn't work or the book where his wife dies in child birth? either way I don't want to discuss it, delete your thread, it makes me sad.

[Anonymous No.23038882]

>>23037995
Thank you, I'll read that next.

[Anonymous No.23039202]

>>23038053
It's the one where his dick doesn't work. And I agree. Just a crass, nasty, depressing story. Delete this thread OP.

[Anonymous No.23039224]

>>23037739
When you read Hemingway what you are reading is Stein made safe for a middlebrow audience.

[Anonymous No.23039228]

>>23037883
I live in Mexico. I go to bullfights any time I can. It's glorious.

[Anonymous No.23039278]

please... god just please... explain the title to me

[Anonymous No.23039286]

>>23037739
What did you like about it anon?

[Anonymous No.23039291]

>>23039278
It's life after WW1, which is good. Hence the sun also rising, after the darkness of war.

[Anonymous No.23039472]

>>23037739
are you me? Were you in France?

[Anonymous No.23040029]

>>23037739
DeLillo's The Names tries to adapt the framework (American first person narrator living in Greece with a group of expatriates, aimless and dialogue-driven), but it's very different overall.

[Anonymous No.23040056]

>>23039278
>>23039278
It's a bible verse.
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
One of the major themes of the book is the world healing and the effects of the war on the next generation. Essentially it means 'life goes on'

[Anonymous No.23040134]

>>23037739
I've read only some of For Whom The Bell Tolls and I've resolved never to spend my money on any of his works.

[Anonymous No.23040276]

>>23040056
This is the epitome of soul

[Anonymous No.23040457]

>>23040056
>>23039291
Thanks, anons. I'm pretty good at analysis, and that seemed like a gimme, but for years it tripped me up. I could just never pin it. I don't mean to treat this as an actual argument, but isn't there a thing about the main character and his lack of sexual ability? Can't get hard or something? It's been so long since I've read it

[Anonymous No.23040557]

>>23037821
>>23038053
>>23039202
>>23039224
"I mistrust all frank and simple people," Jake tells us about Cohn
as a writer, Jake knows that you can't learn about the world from the "splendid imaginary" writing in a book. Only living itself

[Anonymous No.23040649]

>>23040457
He was impotent? I thought he was just a libertine cuck. Now the whole steer scene makes a lot more sense.

[Anonymous No.23040669]

>>23040649
>The irony of Jake's condition will soon become clear, though piecing it together can challenge a reader. But as you read on, keep in mind Jake's rebuffing of the prostitute Georgette's advances, and his explanation for his indifference to her ("I got hurt in the war") as well as his seemingly irrational anger at the gay men who accompany Brett to the club and then dance with the women.

[Anonymous No.23040703]

>>23040669
Nah, I read it as Jake being a jaded romantic or some gay shit. The whole catholic angle as well. He's a tender soul in a new, degenerate world. That sort of thing.

[Anonymous No.23040798]

>>23040703
>Although he does not say so directly, there are numerous moments in the novel when he implies that, as a result of his injury, he has lost the ability to have sex. Jake’s narration is characterized by subtlety and implication. He prefers to hint at things rather than state them outright, especially when they concern the war or his injury. Early in the novel, for example one must read the text very closely to grasp the true nature of Jake’s wound; it is only later, when Jake goes fishing with Bill, that he speaks more openly about his impotence.
>After a short time of gaiety, Brett asks Jake to take her away from the scene. In their first of several taxicab rides together, we learn that Jake has been injured in the war and cannot perform sexually with any women. As they ride through the streets of Paris in a cab, Jake tries to kiss Brett, but she withdraws, telling him that, although she loves him, she "can't stand it." They talk elliptically about Jake's condition before rejoining their friends at a café.
>Note the phallic references that make brutal fun of Jake's condition. At the start of the chapter, he and Brett travel "up . . . then levelled [sic] out" and finally "went smoothly down," immediately after which Jake tries to kiss Brett and she recoils.
>later in the book: One must read closely to understand what is at stake and what is being discussed. As always in Hemingway’s prose, while little is said, much is communicated. Jake begs Brett to be with him, but she replies that she would always “tromper” him, a French word here meaning “to commit adultery.” A wound Jake received during the war rendered him impotent, and he thus cannot satisfy Brett’s need for sex. With her words, she is telling Jake that she would have to go with other men behind Jake’s back, which she knows he wouldn’t be able to stand. This central, intractable emotional conflict forms the backdrop for the action of the novel.
>In her way, she thinks she can make Jake feel better by assuring him that sex “is not all that you know.” Hemingway leaves it to Jake’s and the reader’s imaginations to try to understand what else she thinks that Jake knows that can help her.
>at the end: Brett laments that she and Jake could have had a wonderful time together. Jake responds, “Yes, isn’t it pretty to think so?”
>Jake, just like the other main characters, shows that he is unable to commit to a meaningful relationship and be productive in society, and his impotence acts therefore as a metaphor that characterises the failings of the main characters: all are impotent, in their own different ways.

[Anonymous No.23040821]

>>23040457
Yes, Hemingway talked about it in some interview, saying he had a war injury that left him unable to consummate sex but still with sexual desire. It's mentioned obliquely in a couple scenes with Brett, I think. I always associated it with Jake's desire to be involved in the history and traditional life of Europe but inability to consummate (so to speak) any sort of true connection with the history because of the war making his generation 'lost'.

[Anonymous No.23040845]

>>23040821
Hemingway himself wasn't impotent, but it is interesting he was even hint at that idea

SIMON: Jake Barnes, the novel's protagonist - I would say that he was clearly Hemingway's inspired view of himself, except, of course, Jake Barnes suffered from perhaps the most famous emasculating war injury in literary history.

BLUME: (Laughter) The decision to make Jake Barnes impotent was a fascinating one because everybody at the time knew that Hemingway himself had had quite a serious wound. He had something like 227 pieces of shrapnel shot into his legs. And his area was nicked, but he didn't lose anything in the way that Jake Barnes, the character, did. But it gave Hemingway the idea to make Jake Barnes impotent, and what that does is it actually makes Jake a perfect observer. He literally cannot participate.

And interestingly, because Hemingway's own wounds were so famous - I mean, they were covered even in newspapers back in the States, even though he had no claim to fame at that point - was that naturally people were going to assume that Hemingway was referring his own personal circumstances and make inferences. And so for somebody who became so known as hypermasculine icon to lay himself vulnerable to the assumption that he himself may be impotent was quite noble, in a way. I mean, he was willing to make, you know, astounding personal sacrifices in the service of the narrative.

[Anonymous No.23040852]

>>23040798
Leftist bullshit. You can't get more of a self-insert than Jake, and Hemingway had kids after writing the book.

>Jake begs Brett to be with him, but she replies that she would always “tromper” him, a French word here meaning “to commit adultery.”
That's not because he's impotent, but because she's a whore. She's with that manly man and cucks him too.

>>23040821
>Hemingway talked about it in some interview, saying he had a war injury that left him unable to consummate sex but still with sexual desire
If it's true it just cheapens the whole thing. I assumed he and the whore already fucked and we're fucking occasionally, but it was more of a pimp/whore situation.

What a shit revelation. My opinion of Hemingway is greatly lowered. He's like a sneaky Jew inserting all these subliminals. Or like a sexy tranny that seduces you when you're drunk.

But ultimately it perfectly encapsulates his energy, I guess.

[Anonymous No.23040858]

>>23040845
I don't mean Hemingway was impotent, he was talking about the book. This is the interview,
https://bradybouchard [dot] ca/republished/hemingway.html

[Anonymous No.23040861]

>>23040852
>Leftist
>Whore
>Jew
>Tranny
Really hit all the buzzwords, didn't ya

[Anonymous No.23040870]

>>23040852
>Hemingway had kids
This is the Hemingway family tree

[Anonymous No.23040880]

>>23040861
I also used "cuck". But I stand by my buzzwords. They describe Hemingway and his world well.

I thought it was a cool memoir about getting drunk and going to Spain. Not some weird, subversive thing. This is the cheapest thing that a writer can do.
>bet you didn't expect this disgusting secret when you read the book

[Anonymous No.23040889]

>>23040852
>>23040880
You should write a book on what it's like going through life with such a low IQ. I'd be interesting in reading it

[Anonymous No.23040901]

>>23040880
I think you're misunderstanding Hemingway's entire shtick there buddy. His simple language isn't meant to convey simplicity and carelessness, it's imbibed with subtle meanings that the reader should tease out. There's no big reveal or twist, just those who get it and those who don't

[Anonymous No.23040913]

>>23040901
I get it, don't worry. The concept of the story is cheap though. It's an obvious self-insert memoir, which was a cool story, but he cheapened it by making the main character dickless for no reason. There's no point in him being dickless. I think he added the claim he was dickless later, after the critics started saying it.

[Anonymous No.23040961]

>>23040703
>>23040852
>>23040880
>>23040913
I find your take pretty interesting. I first read Sun Also Rises my senior year with a pretty attractive literature teacher. She loved Hemingway because of what an alpha/manly man he was (he basically made her wet as women are attracted to masculinity the same was men are attracted to femininity). She loved Sun also Rides because Lady Brett was her favorite character because Brett was such a "bad girl." She must love the bad girl getting with the manly man thing because she herself did it by hooking up with one of the most manly/alpha teachers at our school and those two became an item. As for Sun Also Rises, the impotency thing didn't bother her any.

With you not even knowing about the impotency thing, and even rebuking it when told about it, I find that interesting because I'm pretty sure I've done the same with art/literature/music I like.... where I interpreted in my own way. Even if my interpretation was wrong, even if the creator himself said so, it still won't bother me as one you put a work out there you leave it subject to interpretation for however that person wants to interpret it, even if that's not what you had in mind. That's one of the fun things about art/music/literature

[Anonymous No.23040970]

>>23040852
>Or like a sexy tranny that seduces you when you're drunk.
lol

[Anonymous No.23041028]

>>23040961
It's hard to put it into words. This year, I started a literary journey, to find writers that have perfected a form. And in this book, I found a perfect memoir almost. It's a story about nothing with characters that are not compelling, but with a great visual style. Then the guy is dickless and it's ruined by this cheap trick. It's a disappointment in Hemingway. And it bothers me so much, because that's some shit that I would come up with at 19.

[Anonymous No.23041033]

>>23040798
>In her way, she thinks she can make Jake feel better by assuring him that sex “is not all that you know.” Hemingway leaves it to Jake’s and the reader’s imaginations to try to understand what else she thinks that Jake knows that can help her.

I forgot about that part. I have two guys friends that say that have a small penis (I didn't ask, didn't want to know, didn't talk about it) as well as a female friend that can't orgasm. I dated one girl I never wanted to fuck because she wasn't attractive to me, but she could suck the hell out of cock and she had a fetish for it. Wanted to suck cock first thing whenever we got in bed and she was a champ at it. Never meet a girl as good as her at it and in hindsight, I would have been more than happy with her had I know I'd never meet a girl who can suck cock like that. Of my two small dick friends one does say he has a fetish for eating pussy, loves everything about it. If Jake was like that, he probably could have easily got with Brett and kept her happy. Unless she wanted kids and was opposed to adoption but Brett doesn't seem like the type that wants kids. But even for a short term 1-4 year relationship, Jake could have made her happy and that's all you need before you get bored of her

[Anonymous No.23041036]

>>23039278
My penis rises and the sun also rises :D

[Anonymous No.23041054]

Is this the book where he falls in love with a whore, who then cucks him with another guy because this other guy is richer, while also seducing some Jewish man to make him suffer, meanwhile the main character just watches even though he still loves her? Did I get that right?

[Anonymous No.23041064]

>>23041054
bitches do be like that

[Anonymous No.23041071]

Have you guys ever been cucked (unwilling of course)?

[Anonymous No.23041110]

>>23039278
it's right there in the two epigraphs at the beginning of the book

along with the Great Gatsby. the book is the ultimate novel of the Lost Generation (a term Hemingway's RL buddy in Paris came up with, Gertrude Stein). Hemingway wrote that Gertrude Stein heard the phrase from a French garage owner who serviced Stein's car. When a young mechanic failed to repair the car quickly enough, the garage owner shouted at the young man, "You are all a 'génération perdue'."
The Lost Generation was the one with thedisoriented, wandering, directionless spirit
It's the generation right before the Greatest Generation (G.I. Generation), which was followed by the Silent Generation, and the Boomers

Ecclesiastes: "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh...The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose."

Hemingway wrote: "I tried to balance Miss Stein's quotation from the garage owner with one from Ecclesiastes."

[Anonymous No.23041175]

"Brett was damned good-looking. She wore a slipover jersey sweater and a tweed skirt, and her hair was brushed back like a boy's. She started all that. She was built with curves like the hull of a racing yacht, and you missed none of it with that wool jersey."

[Anonymous No.23041209]

[Anonymous No.23041214]

Grew Up… Lady Ashley. Brett is a well-bred young Englishwoman and while she might not make much out of her title, you can see it written all over her – especially in her entitled attitude and her treatment of men.

Living… in Paris. Your best chance at running into Brett is at a party or a bar, but she's difficult to entertain. From bar to carriage to restaurant and then off to some hotel, Brett’s constantly moving – and rarely on foot. When Jake Barnes accuses her of being unwilling to even “walk across the street," Brett lightly tells him “not if I could help."

Profession… lady and socialite. Brett's rich, so she doesn’t particularly get the world of work or of men who have to forgo the occasional party for such boring things as "jobs."

Interests… travelling, fine food and drinks, and men. Above all, however, Brett's main interest is having a good time. She enjoys the company and attention of men, but in the way you might enjoy a film or a good glass of wine.

Relationship Status… involved with Jake Barnes, an American newspaperman. She likes Jake a lot – might even love him, in fact, but it’s hard to say when she strings along so many other men.

Challenge… her relationships with men. Brett loves Jake, but a war wound has left him impotent and unable to satisfy his lover. Although Brett values Jake's company, it has a strong chance of falling apart.

Personality… frivolous, manipulative, and seductive. The 1920s version of a female playboy, Brett is damn good-looking and she knows it. In fact, for all her frivolity and alcohol-wrapped charm, Brett can be surprisingly self-aware: she knows it "makes me feel rather good deciding not to be a bitch," even if she chooses not to act on this insight most of the time.

[Anonymous No.23041297]

>>23041110
>Many generational movements would follow—the Beats, Generation X, the Millennials — yet none has been as romanticized as this pioneering youth movement, which for many still shimmers with dissipated glamour.

>And at the time, no one seemed a better representative of that chic lost world than Hemingway himself, as a personality along with “Sun.”

>Here was a new breed of writer — brainy yet brawny, a far cry from Proust and his dusty, sequestered ilk. Almost immediately upon the release of The Sun Also Rises, at least one press outlet noted the emergence of a Hemingway “cult” on two continents.

>“He made men want to talk about him,” recalled Morley Callaghan, a former “Toronto Star” colleague of Hemingway’s

>Within weeks of arriving in Paris, he had enraptured two gods of the modernist movement, Gertrude Stein and Ezra Pound

>These luminaries invited young Hemingway into their homes; they taught him everything they knew and helped sculpt him

>Back in New York, one American publisher wrote to a friend in the mid-1920s, “Hemingway’s first novel might rock the country.”

>Critics have long cited Hemingway’s second novel, A Farewell to Arms, as the one that established him as a giant in the literary pantheon, but in many ways, the significance of “The Sun Also Rises” is much greater. As far as literature was concerned, it essentially introduced its mainstream readers to the twentieth century.

>““The Sun Also Rises” did more than break the ice,” says Lorin Stein, editor of the “Paris Review.” “It was modern literature fully arrived for a grand public. I’m not sure that there was ever another moment when one novelist was so obviously the leader of a whole generation. You read one sentence and it doesn’t sound like anything that came before.”

>says Charles Scribner III, a former director at Charles Scribner’s Sons, which published both F. Scott Fitzgerald and Hemingway for the majority of their careers. “Fitzgerald was wrapping up a grand tradition; he was the last of the romantics....Hemingway was completely twentieth century.” As one prominent critic noted around that time, Hemingway succeeded in doing for writing what Picasso and the cubists had been doing for painting

>“The Sun Also Rises” immediately established Hemingway not only as the voice of his generation but it's lifestyle icon as well.

[Anonymous No.23041405]

>>23040845
that's from an interview with the chick that wrote this

Apparently the real life Lady Brett Ashley was married three times. Second marriage was January 1917, and they had a son March 1918. They didn't file for divorce until 1926 so when she was in Paris she was still married and had a son. She later got married again and apparently died at age 47 of tuberculosis (the "white death") which was the infectious disease that killed the most people in 2022 (1.3 million deaths), behing only COVID


"Everybody Behaves Badly: The True Story Behind Hemingway’s Masterpiece 'The Sun Also Rises'" was released in 2016 to coincide with the 90th anniversary of Sun‘s 1926 release. The book became a New York Times best seller.

SIMON: The book began in your mind with a picture.

BLUME: Yes. A few years ago, I saw a picture of Hemingway with an entourage of attractive and rather mischievous looking people sitting around a cafe table in Pamplona in 1925. And the woman sitting next to Hemingway had a very beguiling look about her. She was lank. She was coquettish. And I was immediately drawn her, and apparently half of Paris was drawn to her at one point, also.

(LAUGHTER)

BLUME: I investigated a little bit, and it turns out her name was Lady Duff Twysden. And she was a dissolute but sublime creature who was over in Paris, waiting out a divorce from her aristocratic husband. And she turned out to be the real-life inspiration behind Lady Brett Ashley, and I wanted to learn more.

...

SIMON: Is there any reason why reading your book and knowing the real-life characters from whom the characters of "The Sun Also Rises" are derived should decrease anybody's enjoyment of or esteem for the novel?

BLUME: Oh, heavens, no. I mean, I personally found the backstory - I mean, it completely enhanced the significance. It's probably one of the best sensory documents that we have that really gives us a sense of what it was like to be an ex-pat in the ex-pat colony in 1920s Paris. And knowing that there is a completely true backstory behind it only, in my opinion, adds to its allure.