/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22835215]

What's most striking to me in recent years is how certain boards, /his/ and even /lit/ now somewhat, are flooded with both Christian thought and imagery.
It's almost as if there's only so much nihilism a person living in modernity can take.

[Anonymous No.22835221]

>>22835215
Or contrarianism has shifted from being an atheist when atheism became popular.

[Anonymous No.22835232]

>>22835221
No dude it‘s totally the one specific kind of ideology-shopped "tradition" that occupies the inverse space of what atheism was 20 years ago, that‘s what the opposite of modernity is.

[Anonymous No.22835282]

>>22835221
It's possible I guess, but I doubt that's the reason.
There's fundamentally no where to go with nihilism, and the reason people are so nihilistic nowadays is because we base our societies on the shit foundation created in the enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.22835294]

A lot of it is owed to the innovations of the Catholic Church that have taken place over the last few years and then of course you have the emergence of guys like Rod Dreher and that guy from Notre Dame that u can’t recall right now. Traditionalism played a role. Politics as well. All this has led to a recovery of saints and church fathers. Nobody should be surprised about any of this. It we were speaking Chinese it might be surprising but we’re not.

[Anonymous No.22835302]

>>22835221
Atheism hasn’t been contrarian in centuries. New atheism in particular was a lmanufactured mainstream fad.

[Anonymous No.22835303]

>>22835215
I have a sniggling suspicion that the defenders of the satan statue would burst a blood vessel in anger if someone put up a Hitler statue. That's the real evil for the secular state religion. The devil is the misunderstood anti-hero, while the REAL bad guy is a German dictator.

[Anonymous No.22835320]

>>22835215
ultimately it was Kantposter who defeated the atheist and cleared the ground for faith.

Blessed be Kantposter

[Anonymous No.22835325]

>>22835302
Nonsense. Religion was the very social and political core ideology on which societies were built. Sure some "thinkers" back then dabbled with atheism. But for the average pleb the God(s) were as real as the field they ploughed and the crops they harvested

[Anonymous No.22835376]

>>22835303
The goat head is Baphomet not Satan. Baphomet in Daneil and Revolations is simply a sign of things to come and is not good or bad. The plinverted pentagram is just the morning star (Venus) and in Isaiah symbolized the fall of Babylon. It is not the seal of the Devil. The church of Satan from 1968 is not canonical

[Anonymous No.22835386]

>>22835376
I'm sorry, but I don't care what liberals have to say about the First Amendment after listening to them snidely remark that "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" for years.

[Anonymous No.22835389]

>>22835215
Are you talking about the idiot that keeps spamming threads with 7's in the picture filenames?

[Anonymous No.22835402]

>>22835389
Ummm... no? I just meant in general, a lot more Christians than in the past.

[Anonymous No.22835403]

>>22835215
People have become aware of the evils of judeo liberalism they know Christianity is the only cure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55f___1XYVE

[Anonymous No.22835408]

>>22835294
Yes we must return to Traditional Catholicism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkefN10JtA

[Anonymous No.22835427]

>>22835294
>>22835408
>but I remember the one kid we had in my elementary school class, a black boy who had been born at home, and who was not circumcised. All us boys wanted to stare at his primitive root wiener when we were at the urinal during recess, because it was monstrous. Nobody told us that wieners could look like that. The kid didn’t know why his penis was so strange looking, and neither did we. Third grade, man.

[Anonymous No.22835428]

>>22835427
>>but I remember the one kid we had in my elementary school class, a black boy who had been born at home, and who was not circumcised. All us boys wanted to stare at his primitive root wiener when we were at the urinal during recess, because it was monstrous. Nobody told us that wieners could look like that. The kid didn’t know why his penis was so strange looking, and neither did we. Third grade, man.
kek

[Anonymous No.22835432]

>>22835427
Wait, is that from that French faggot?

[Anonymous No.22835434]

>>22835303
The amount of Boomerlibs pulling the “law and order” after that ridiculous statue took a rightful tumble is astounding. The post-war mind rot is just who they are. If the specter of Mid-century Germany prevents you from radically abolishing and restructuring the rotten institutions and edgy practices in our society, then you are basically just resigning yourself to fade away slowly. But I guess that’s what “conservatism” does.

[Anonymous No.22835435]

>>22835215
I suspect it is more to do with the fact that election tourists still haven't left this website and an anonymous forum is a great place for religious teenagers to talk about their thoughts because it would be social suicide to do it on their personal social media account. I don't really care about American social politics but you don't have to dig too hard to read some bastardised slang about a person's political beliefs (Leftard, Rightoid, Chud, Cuckthiest etc.)
This place has always collected social outcasts, dorky teenagers and schizos. The only difference is now a lot of them bear the cross and feel like they are participating in some kind of moral crusade by browbeating strangers online.

[Anonymous No.22835445]

>>22835434
>The post-war mind rot is just who they are
It started way before WWII, the effects merely completely solidified after it.
If you wanna fix the problem you have to go to the root, the enlightenment.
I'll not be happy until I'm governed by an Orthodox monarch.

[Anonymous No.22835452]

>>22835435
>The only difference is now a lot of them bear the cross and feel like they are participating in some kind of moral crusade by browbeating strangers online.
Based.

[Anonymous No.22835453]

>>22835215
Protestant cucks from gay English speaking countries that came over during the 2016 elections
Some of them are now LARPing as Catholic or orthodox (depending if they are brunette or blonde) since their preacher put a rainbow flag on

[Anonymous No.22835459]

>>22835453
>Some of them are now LARPing as Catholic or orthodox (depending if they are brunette or blonde) since their preacher put a rainbow flag on
Also based.

[Anonymous No.22835463]

>>22835432
Rod Dreher

[Anonymous No.22835470]

>>22835445
Agreed. The "conservative" mind thinks in universals, e.g., either ALL statues or NO statue in public buildings. But we must overcome ourselves. Think in particulars -- only *some* statues, determined by some moral principle, established by political will.

The same applies to teachers talking about their marriages. In response to LGBT talking about their relationships, "conservates" often say, "NO teacher--whether straight or gay--should talk about their relationships". In effect, we universalize away wholesome discussion to remove the unwholesome. But if we thought in particulars, we'd rightly say, "only normal marriage-talk is allowed" and we'd have the will to enforce it.

Again, fight the habit to universalize.

[Anonymous No.22835487]

>>22835376
That just makes it a provoking, edgy statement that as no place in the domain of the public; It also break blasphemy laws too if you wanna go down that route. The capitol shouldn’t be a snarky reddit thread.

[Anonymous No.22835504]

>>22835487
>That just makes it a provoking, edgy statement that as no place in the domain of the public
No religious display has a place in the capital
>blasphemy laws
Unconstitutional even if Iowa has any.

[Anonymous No.22835515]

>>22835215
The pendulum swung the other way after Reddit fedora-Atheism became mainstream. I think it’s generally a good thing — people are starved of meaning in this soulless technologically advanced society with no social fabric. Maybe it has more or less to do with material conditions than “modernity” but the effect is the same either way.
I do think the pendulum will swing the other way though very soon. The rise of the “schizo” meme is correlated with this tradcath revival because untempered Christianity, I believe, leads to schizophrenia. Particularly the political strand online that freaks out about demons and is constantly questioning whether the media they watch has satanic influence, etc. I saw there was some video essay about the newest Zelda game that complained about how all the cute girls had big, dark-skinned boyfriends and how the aliens looked goat-themed (satanic programming?). Pure right wing brainworms.

Atheism is garbage so I’m glad Christianity is rising up against it. But the expression of it online has a lot of problems. There are parts of Christianity that lead people to think the whole world is an illusion and you just have to spend your life denying what the world shows you and pray for redemption. That’s not a very inspiring idea, and I don’t see how that saves anyone from the crisis of modernity. I think anti-Christianity will swing back, fortified by experience, in a Hegelian sort of way.

[Anonymous No.22835603]

>>22835470
>>22835445
I generally push back against this whole “ACTUALLY it all goes back to the enlightenment- actually no, the reformation- actually no, the fall of Rome…” reductive thinking that rightoids engage in. The problems of today are specific and we can fix them if we just change our thinking. The universalism of conservatism is stupid and, magically, it is only invoked when it binds our hands and prevents us from doing what we want to do. You can say that line of thinking has ties to the enlightenment — who cares?

You can’t change the past, and the past is who we are. The enlightenment had its time; it was inevitable. Some good came out of it, some bad. But I have great respect for it because it’s an incredible part of our history as Europeans. The response to our problems now is not to go back to the dark ages in our thinking, but just to move forward having learned what we’ve learned.

[Anonymous No.22835616]

>>22835603
>You can’t change the past, and the past is who we are. The enlightenment had its time; it was inevitable. Some good came out of it, some bad. But I have great respect for it because it’s an incredible part of our history as Europeans. The response to our problems now is not to go back to the dark ages in our thinking, but just to move forward having learned what we’ve learned.
Time isn't a line, it's a circle. Progress doesn't exist, it's just an illusion.

[Anonymous No.22835624]

>>22835504
>Unconstitutional
The US constitution is antiChristian. You cannot be a follower of our Lord Jesus Christ and support the US constitution. Freedom of religion is antiChristian.
Freedom of speech is antiChristian.
Democracy is antiChristian
Republics are antiChristian. The state must follow church teachings.

[Anonymous No.22835645]

>>22835515
The way the internet and social media functions in relation to religion is fascinating when you consider how companies facilitate the delivery of their services. The book "The age of surveillance capitalism" breaks down how big tech companies operate and using the books information to parse what is happening to religion is helpful.
Social media companies filter information to their users to stimulate as much engagement as possible and as a person uses the platform more the algorithm that decides what shows up on a person's feed gets better at finding the exact content that a person wants to see. This creates a cycle in that those who are predisposed to radical ideas will see more of them which fuels their schemas of how the world functions. This also means that each user who is engaged with religious content online will be pulled into contact with others who share similar beliefs, to the point that eventually you have people with extremely similar personalities talking in echo chambers of less than a few hundred members. This creates thousands of micro sects of different religions which still disrupts the social fabric. People finding religion in the world we live in can be great for their mental health but it just isn't being curated in a holistic way by tech companies.

[Anonymous No.22835649]

>>22835616
That’s just dumb. Human progress isn’t exclusively linear or cyclical, it’s both.

[Anonymous No.22835658]

>>22835515
I think all older identities like religions and even races are coming back through online means. Even the gays are infesting churches (openly this time.) But this also means more people will be LARPing. "I'm Cherokee online," etc.

[Anonymous No.22835669]

>>22835624
Yes let's replace one big bureaucracy run by pedophiles with another one. Sick idea lad, gold star for you.

[Anonymous No.22835677]

>>22835649
Technological progress is linear, everything else is a circle.

[Anonymous No.22835735]

I can't for the life of me understand how people can be superstitious and believe in God at all, specially in this day and age. I think it's bizarre and ludicrous, you can theorize about the metaphysics, about the unknown or whatever, no one knows, but to actually take old books seriously, believing in Noah building an arc with two giraffe heads sticking out the window, miracles and wish granting from prayer, it's Santa Claus level stuff, it's ridiculous to even consider it. All is left is a taboo, you can't be atheist, you have to say God bless to the NPCs or else they are triggered, they think you are a bad person or whatever, they really guide their morality from what the priest taught them to. On the other hand you have some pseudo-lefties who are supposedly atheist, but they love any non-christian indigenous folklore and they are also extremely superficial about "energies" and into astrology. It's alright to cross paths with a black cat, it's alright if you did not have your head washed by a priest when you were a baby, you are not doomed or saved because of it. Will I have to live my whole life pretending any of this makes any sense at all?

[Anonymous No.22835744]

Honey wake up new /lit/ Christian propaganda thread where the same guy talks to himself for 50 posts just dropped.

[Anonymous No.22835752]

>>22835624
I guess owning a gun is antichristian too? Look, I’m all for the reunification of church and state but europoids take it to far and that’s why your continent loves police states and curtailing of freedom of speech.

[Anonymous No.22835769]

>>22835735
Hint, it's not about your personal belief.
Political theology is replaced old world religions, anyway, so there's no use complaining about people believing in weird beliefs. Liberalism is the default religion for many, as it is enforced and appropriately rewarded. After all, democracy was spread around the world in an evangelical fashion. The miracle of democracy worked once or twice and people still believe in it out of habit. Voting is religious.

[Anonymous No.22835783]

>>22835752
Any state is going to prevent you, with lethal force if necessary, from speaking if you do actually do so in a meaningful way which captures the public comprehension.

Europe is actually better in this regard because having the rules which exist de facto anyway makes people craftier about how to evade them. This is why we always keep hearing about NS groups in the German military, things like the yellow vests, Chemnitz, etc. Americans will never organize like this because of a naive and messianic view that they can speak their heavily-moderated version of truth to power at the last minute and zog will crumble in on itself.

>t. american

[Anonymous No.22835795]

>>22835735
>believing in Noah building an arc with two giraffe heads sticking out the windo
ALLEGORY

[Anonymous No.22835806]

>>22835669
You are wrong in your false assumption.
The answer is Absolute Monarchy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNUrMK-NMsE

[Anonymous No.22835819]

>>22835752
Owning a gun is Christian. We have a right to defend ourselves, our King, our country, our people, and the Catholic faith. Especially against those who would murder us.

[Anonymous No.22835835]

>>22835215
It's both the resultant negative-stimulation of following atheism to its course, and an increase of LARPing; At least Christian LARPing is a morally conservative and constructive form of LARPing.

But there's also a lot of people who were raised Christian and probably are just more vocal about it now, like a snowball effect of proudly supporting Christianity on the internet. We can't forget that there are many genuine Christians, and not LARPers.

[Anonymous No.22835848]

>>22835752
>that’s why your continent loves police states
the US has a worse police state. keep backing the blue you retard, these are the same people that will send you to the fema (concentration) camps
>curtailing of freedom of speech
I dare you to publically speak out about the holocost, the jews, trannys, and homosexuals. See how that goes. Then get back to me about how the US has freedom of speech >>>/wsg/5379568

[Anonymous No.22835853]

>>22835624
>that quote
It would be based if it wasn't just in defence of the age old Roman lusting after world dominion. Tradcaths will really try and claim Jesuits are 'trad'.

[Anonymous No.22835867]

>>22835769
Yeah, I get that religion is a herd mentality thing. It's just a bit too absurd for me that people fall for it. On democracy, like Churchill said, worst form of government, except for all others.

[Anonymous No.22835870]

>>22835806
Thank you for posting proof that there are indeed pedophiles in these organisations. Nice self own you absolute melon.

[Anonymous No.22835871]

>>22835806
Absolute monarchy is hand-in-glove with those child-raping jews to the point that once the populist uprising of Shepherd‘s Crusade marked jews as the most effective vector for frustration against the crown, Phillip V and James II went to war with their own people to protect them.

[Anonymous No.22835938]

>>22835603
>You can’t change the past
You definitely can, or at least, you can change the mainstream perception and understanding of historical events and the overall chronology. There is a high likelihood that the history we think we know never actually happened as we are told if you consider things like historical records often being kept by Jesuits, the Jesuit control of the Smithsonian, and so on. Even the great works of the Greeks were not passed through the ages, but rather, they were "discovered" not more than a few hundred years ago. To top it all off, most of our understanding of ancient history comes from The Histories, which is included among those "discovered" documents.

>>22835735
You don't have to believe something to entertain it. But if you go into a conversation believing that there is zero chance you can be wrong, you'll never grow. At the very least, you would be acting disingenuous with everyone you interact with, assuming that the other parties to your interactions have the same willingness to entertain ideas without necessary accepting them as is.

[Anonymous No.22835955]

>>22835783
The way ignorant conservatives talk about the 2nd amendment annoys me to no end.
>Remember, the first thing they come for is the guns!
No, actually it looks to me like it’s the LAST thing they come for. How do people not see it? I think things would be worse without the 2A, in the sense that the government could get away with a lot more if they weren’t paranoid about an armed peasant uprising all the time, but it has the adverse effect of giving people a false sense of security.

[Anonymous No.22835987]

>>22835835
>At least Christian LARPing is a morally conservative and constructive form of LARPing
It really depends. A lot of these people are indistinguishable from whiny, sheltered, “snowflake” zoomers.
>please don’t say swear words!
>please don’t post pr0n!
>you can’t say that, that’s a sin!
I’m fine with the Christian larping as long as it doesn’t get in the way of the goal of the internet right, which is to be radical and transgressive and break all the taboos of the gay boomer paradigm.

[Anonymous No.22836007]

>>22835987
>which is to be radical and transgressive and break all the taboos of the gay boomer paradigm.
I think that's mostly over now, and that the taboos being broken are gen x/millennial ones. They're the ones that seethe the most at acting like a Nazi after all. There's undoubtedly a very annoying form of Christian LARPing that wants to nitpick and be superior to everyone on the internet but there's also a reaction against the pseudo-revolutions of the previous generations. If rampant sexual perversity no longer holds a revolutionary potential, then what's the point of it on the internet?

[Anonymous No.22836013]

>>22835955
You make a salient point about guns being among the last things they come for. As for how people do not see it, my argument would be that they have become too enveloped by materialism to the point where it has blinded them to anything which would transcend the material. Those who currently called themselves conservative, as others have alluded to, are not actually conservative because the ideological position in so far as the mainstream is concerned has nothing to do with actual conservation of anything except material wealth. Also, someone in the thread mentioned the tendency toward universalist approaches to morality (in that something is either acceptable in all cases or acceptable in none, or something along those lines), which I would be inclined to agree with. I would even go further as to say the modern society we currently find ourselves in has been set up (whether intentionally or by gross negligence is another discussion, but I would argue intentionally) in a way which is conducive of the abandonment of one's own sense of discernment, their sense of personal responsibility, and their sense of duty. Even people who identify as conservative are unable to contemplate these concepts outside the framework of materialism. Everything boils down to a sort of economic rationalism and moral universalism that doesn't actually serve any purpose that is higher than the conservation of material wealth.

[Anonymous No.22836024]

>>22836007
>what's the point of it on the internet
That's a very good question. The fact that porn not only continues to be pervasive, but is even increasingly more so as time goes by, suggests that it does serve deeper purpose as a means to and end that lays outside the realm of simply breaking taboos. It's probably even more sinister than the Christians would think, if you ask me. Obviously, I don't have the undeniably correct answer to the question or else I'd post it.

[Anonymous No.22836025]

>>22835938
>you can change the mainstream perception and understanding of historical events
That’s certainly true. I think it’d be good for “the West” to rethink the old European idea of universalism, like anon said, and have a more measured view of the Enlightenment in the greater context of world history. That is, it wasn’t truly Europeans reaching the pinnacle of philosophy and political theory, because obviously a lot of these projects have failed. It was simply another chapter in our history, with some good and some bad. I just don’t like the idea of completely throwing out the Enlightenment because “we just had everything figured out before then.” Seems autistic and not really helpful at all.

[Anonymous No.22836034]

>>22836024
Well then you can't exactly blame Christians for calling a sexual perversity degenerate when it's literally only for sating an ever more perverse desire. It's probably helping addicts and stopping potential addicts.

[Anonymous No.22836037]

>>22835504
The left sets up the rules of “neutrality” so that only liberals can act in the public sphere, only liberals can exercise power, and only liberals can punish their enemies.

If you buy into the liberal myth of the “neutral” state, you forbid yourself from punishing liberals.

[Anonymous No.22836068]

>>22836024
>>22836007
I’m by no means in favor of the proliferation of internet porn. But there’s a weird paradoxical relationship younger generations have with porn that most people aren’t aware of. The culture is increasingly accepting of porn and deviant relationships, but at the same time it’s increasingly strict with regards to consent, age gaps, and the male gaze. A lot of zoomers are opposed to nudity in film, but neutral or positive towards the legality of porn. As porn, that is, simulated sex, becomes more accepted, REAL sex becomes taboo.
I just want people to have the freedom to be edgy online. Horniness has become yet another thing people get offended by, and that makes me want to defend it. I really think having a society where kids at age 12 (on average) are having their minds fried with internet porn is horrible. However, I want everyone to say what they feel and offend whoever they want to, and that includes tradcaths who get offended by Roman statues of naked ladies. I want everyone to grow up and stop crying about nudity and violence and bad words.

[Anonymous No.22836088]

>>22836025
Good points, anon. Thanks for giving me some things to ponder.

>>22836034
I wouldn't be one to blame them for that. If you consider the literal meaning of the word degeneracy, then it would not be a misnomer to refer to sexual perversion and pornography as degenerate. There is no generation (or genesis, as they would say) involved in these and they are antithetical to generation on a biological level at the very least since the energy that would normally, biologically speaking, go into efforts toward procreation, are directed at something which thwart procreation.

>It's probably helping addicts and stopping potential addicts.
I don't think that satiating the desire of an addict by giving them what they desire helps them at all. They need to overcome their addiction. I know that is not an easy task as the nature of addictions make them very difficult to overcome.

[Anonymous No.22836091]

>>22836068
Interesting points, anon. I have to take my leave from this thread. It's been fun.

[Anonymous No.22836105]

>>22836068
>I just want people to have the freedom to be edgy online. Horniness has become yet another thing people get offended by, and that makes me want to defend it.
I completely agree. Which is what makes me think the best aim right now is being hornier than ever (on the internet), specifically towards women online (moving towards a tangible and normal sexual dynamic), and avoiding porn. That's of course applicable to the culture right now, and maybe not 10 years ago or 10 years in the future.

[Anonymous No.22836111]

>>22836088
>I don't think that satiating the desire of an addict by giving them what they desire helps them at all.
No I meant Christian ethics becoming more vocal has probably made quite the difference in many degenerate's lives.

[Anonymous No.22836141]

>>22835624
>Democracy is antiChristian
>Republics are antiChristian. The state must follow church teachings.
Neither of those things are incompatible with church teaching.

[Anonymous No.22836162]

>>22835806
Absolute monarchy is a modernist invention contrary to naturalist feudal relations, localized customs and practices, the sanctity of the law as a reflection of God's wisdom above man's personal turpid vicissitudes, and the integrity of a flourishing aristocracy, as well the historic consensus that a mixed constitution is ideal, linking Plato to Aristotle to Polybius to Aquinas to Peter of Auvergne to Ptolemy of Lucca etc.

[Anonymous No.22836166]

>>22835504
>No, you CANNOT have baby jesus in the capitol, isn’t wholesome chungas
>The Senate:

[Anonymous No.22836182]

>>22835215

Or it's the same couple of guys making all the threads to create that impression

[Anonymous No.22836255]

>>22835938
>You don't have to believe something to entertain it. But if you go into a conversation believing that there is zero chance you can be wrong, you'll never grow. At the very least, you would be acting disingenuous with everyone you interact with, assuming that the other parties to your interactions have the same willingness to entertain ideas without necessary accepting them as is.

I try to be as open as I can, I don't know all the answers and never talk down on anyone. I heard of a south american myth in which a mystical coconut opens ups and the night comes out of it and fills the sky, it's a origin story. It's a very beautiful tale. Now, I don't believe it actually happened, it's impossible for me to believe in that. I take it as metaphor, as an insight, but not as the actual truth. I see christianity the same way, Jesus was a wise interesting man, but so was Confucius or Marcus Aurelius. We can learn from them, disagree with them, just like with anyone else. Divine Comedy is a Christian book, a very interesting one, but no one believes Dante really went to Hell and Heaven with Virgil. I see the original religious stories the same way. Religion, like philosophy or any cultural production is bound by language and by time, so a lot of it is simply lost in translation.

I could be all polite in my approach and say that we can never be 100% certain of anything, so in this sense I could say "I don't know" if the world started from a coconut, or if Lao Zi saw an actual magic dragon coming out of the river or if Jesus came back to life. But I would be lying about that, I am actually 100% sure the world did not start with a coconut and that the linguistic tree did not start with a tower built to reach the heavens. I cannot pretend to have any doubts about it, I know you can't fit all animals in an arc just like I know a reindeer can't fly. I know praying before a game can boost a player's confidence, but it won't make any other difference to the outcome of the game.

Sure, some argue "it's a metaphor, it's an allegory". I'll take that. There are important lessons in those stories, just like there are in Aesop fables. But some people actually materially believe in those things and it blows my mind.

[Anonymous No.22836354]

>>22835215
The ortho Christian phase ended about 3 year ago, I see more basedjak edits of God than earnest religion threads.

[Anonymous No.22836377]

>>22835215
The problem is this: at some point, especially on /pol/, people drew the conclusion that Christianity was a sort of social glue that kept everyone together and kept morality enforced and now without it, we are socially untethered and morally dysfunctional.
Truth in both claims, but pragmatism is a horrible reason to believe in any spiritual or religious idea. So people started trying their damndest to get back into Christianity, but only to "save the West" or "save the white race" or "get some moral fiber." Because I watched in real time the origins of this Christian resurgence, I know it isn't genuine at all and is based on cultural insecurity about how the West is in decline. Basically, it's fake performative belief.
The problem with that, is it will take on a dogmatic, bigoted, watered down, cultish, and if it enjoys incumbent power at any point, fascist posture and bastardize the entire message and point of Christ. And is already happening. A few of us walked away from this realizing what Christ and all the religions really were talking about and aiming at doing, but the rest literally just forced themselves to believe this to "save the West."
It will probably lead to an unmitigated disaster.

[Anonymous No.22836427]

>>22835215
>Christ is the only exit from this world, because He just is, okay.

[Anonymous No.22836428]

>>22835221
Yeah, that's my sense of it.

[Anonymous No.22836430]

>>22836427
Don't feel obligated to wait for natural causes.

[Anonymous No.22836432]

>>22836141
Yes they are, democracy and republics are both liberal. liberalism is anti Christian, if you are a followers of Jesus Christ you cannot support a democracy nor a republic, there is only one Christian approved form of goverment and that is Traditional Catholic Absolute Monarchy.
Our Lord Jesus Christ is not the president of presidents, He is not the senator of senators, He is the King of Kings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n2NknnoQAw
>>22835853
>Tradcaths will really try and claim Jesuits are 'trad'.
We Traditional Catholics know jesuits are crypto jews which is why we reject vatican II and the novus ordo and seek a return to pre 1955 Catholicism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn5gHD-4WwM

[Anonymous No.22836436]

>>22836432
>we traditional catholics
Are consummate heretics.

[Anonymous No.22836472]

>>22836436
prots know nothing

[Anonymous No.22836488]

>>22835215
Most 4chan boards are filled with cope. Religion is the ultimate cope.

[Anonymous No.22836505]

>>22836472
>tranime tradcatboy poster

[Anonymous No.22836519]

>>22835403
>>22835408
I wopuld only become a catholic if they hung every jesuit.

[Anonymous No.22836546]

>>22836377
Great post. I agree basically 100%. Christian posting these days is very similar to the pagan LARPing that was prominent on /pol/ before it. I welcomed the new Christian flavor of the alt right because it was just much better presentation than the 1.0 shit. More normal, more what you would expect from a hard-right American movement. But I never felt that you could revive the religious belief of the past, at least not truthfully, and you described that well.

What interests me is that a lot of these people actually did turn their fake performative belief into true belief — they fell for the meme you could say. Can you imagine being a normie one day, then a christofascist the next? There are people who overdose on redpills and immediately come to the conclusion that our elites are in communion with demons and the only thing that can save us is Jesus Christ. That’s gotta do crazy things to someone’s psyche.

Christianity, more than other religions, has a huge emphasis on historicity. It’s not enough that you accept the teachings, you also have to accept the historical record as it is written in the Christian canon. Therefore you basically have to believe that God’s hand is hovering over all of us, guiding us in this grand narrative of good vs evil. You throw in the Jewish element and the stuff about demons, and boom, a recipe for schizophrenia. Not even denying that there’s truth to the demon stuff, or that Jews as a group are defacto anti-Good and anti-Beauty, but I just worry for people who haven’t been browsing 4chan for years like me, and they get thrown into this stuff without knowing how to swim.

[Anonymous No.22836550]

>>22836432
Perhaps you should read some actual scholastic political thought; Francisco Suarez was a notorious for his vociferous apologia for popular sovereignty understood in the sense of a social contract that brings about the government apparatus, whose telos is the common good of the people who engendered it.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/historical-journal/article/abs/from-suarez-to-filmer-a-reappraisal/6D129D3189151C7A9D2824CCC3D15C49

Please just read The Ideal Government and the Mixed Constitution by James M. Blythe. The Catholic Church notoriously undermined the power of secular kings since the Investiture Controversy, when Manegold of Lautenbach defended the papal and popular right to depose monarchs who contravened natural law. The social contract theory of government itself has existed since the time of Rome and was enshrined in the Lex Regia.

>democracy and republics are both liberal.
Democracy and republicanism have preexisted liberalism for centuries. Your animadversions against liberalism are historically illiterate, as liberalism properly speaking doesn't exist anymore, it was a movement intended solely to abolish class privilieges and totalize the public-private sphere distinction; the emergence of socialist movements in the 19th century rendered it obsolete and led to its merging with the remnants of conservatism to produce a synthesis focused on defending a myria of old conservative principles like limited government and the rule of law untethered to any comprehensive conceptualization of an organic society where the distinction between government institutions and spontaneous civil association does not exist.

By the way, a respublica for the ancients and the medievals was never a form of government, it was any government which was ordained towards the common good; any form of government could be a respublica, whether democracy, aristocracy or monarchy. Good job on falling for modernist memes:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0090591710366369
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20175129?seq=1

PS: Tyrannicide is based and trad.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/review-of-politics/article/abs/duty-to-kill-john-of-salisburys-theory-of-tyrannicide/B8B9C49651D269542C0387464B446BC2

[Anonymous No.22836572]

>>22835221

Happily, there's been a slight pendulum-swing back towards truth. You'll now periodically see the odd thread starting with god in the image of a "gemmy" meme, with accompanying greentext mocking him. A significant proportion of the userbase are sick of the tradcath larping (a phrase which is easily understood to include orthodoxy, "old time religion" in general), which was clearly never sincere in the first place.

[Anonymous No.22836580]

>>22836546
I just believe in love, humility, peace, forgiveness, and the fellowship of man, like Jesus actually did.
Idk about any of that other stuff you mentioned really.
I just think they're gonna use this stuff to enforce a fascist backlash with Christianty as the paint job on top, despite it being the opposite of the intent of Jesus.

[Anonymous No.22836590]

>>22835783
I’m pretty sure no Americans other than you believe that. Sure freedom of speech is nice but to think it could dismantle empires is naive wishful thinking.

>>22835819
I was raised Protestant though. My family is Scotch-English.

>>22835848
>backing the blue
Dude I don’t even like cops.

[Anonymous No.22836596]

>>22836572
Tradcath and even traditional protestantism or whatever, is all dogmatic horseshit and most of it is a genuine LARP anyway; the people doing it, don't believe in it.
What they believe in, is the spirit of fear, the spirit of panick, vehement hatred of anything that's different, and most of all, vehement hatred of themselves.
Most dogmatic religious creeds are like that, the only seed of genuineness in any of them is that these people really do desire a connection with God.
Reviving the old traditions will never work because the circumstances that made them work have been totally unmoored.
It doesn't matter though. The faiths were never about their dogma, but about the Truth. The Truth can always get a face-lift in its presentation as long as men are on the Earth. The old will re emerge as something new.
But this Christian resurgence...they'll just use it to commit evil because their hearts are full of sin and hatred.
Take a look at Israel and radicalized Jewry for a clue as to what "traditional Abrahamism" leads to.
Slaughtering children in the name of God. Might as well just start smoking crack, not kidding. You'd do less damage.

[Anonymous No.22836618]

>>22835470
So situational nominalism is the answer?

[Anonymous No.22836624]

>>22836432
Big problems with monarchy is that it wasn’t the original form of government, tribalism was, if we want to be truly traditional with a capital T.

[Anonymous No.22836650]

>>22836618
There is no answer, except for you. You can't force anyone to believe anything. You could do what anon is saying, encourage heterosexual marriage talk and forbid homo talk at school, and there'd still be a student in the class who thinks they're gay. Some would even go gay just to spite the orthodoxy that's been established.
You can't force anyone to believe anything and that's the internets entire problem, not just 4chan.
You can live in your preferred way to live as a representative of what you believe, and you can make arguments. But you can't force anything, that's magical thinking. There's no answer.
For years/pol/tards raged on about social engineering attempts by the state and their reactionary answer is social engineering in the other direction.
Don't get me wrong, I think this LGBT stuff is harmful; I'm under no delusion that I can legislate or force it away. I live my life and make my arguments while knowing I am powerless to change anyone's minds or behaviors by force, and that if I try, all I will create is backlash and warfare.

These charlatans have no idea what the purpose of truly held religious or spiritual beliefs are. All they are is impotent dictators.
Probably get no pussy either.

[Anonymous No.22836662]

>>22836432
>pre 1955 Catholicism
>not Jesuit

[Anonymous No.22836664]

>>22836662
All forms of catholicism are rehashed Eleusinian Mystery ideas
Nothing to do with Christianity. Whether before the 50s or after.
God doesn't have a King, who tf is "the Pope?"
Rome had an Emperor.

[Anonymous No.22836665]

>>22836580
I think Christianity, to some extent, is a Rorschach test. All religions are, basically. You can be a God-fearing Christian and be a communist or a fascist, and wherever the scripture seems to disagree with you, you just say “well I interpret it this way” and you’re good. I don’t really care about that. Christ’s teachings are lofty and they represent the ultimate test of spiritual strength and love for your fellow man — you can’t really build a political ideology out of that, at least not out of Christ’s teachings alone.

It’ll be interesting to see how the radical Christian movement plays out, but I suspect it won’t end well. Lots of people get sucked into it because they can’t stop thinking about death and the weight of their sins. Or because, like I said, they overdosed on redpills and went a little crazy.

[Anonymous No.22836674]

>>22836665
I have a feeling I know how it will end. With my death
My love to you eternally, my brother.

[Anonymous No.22836685]

>>22836650
Depends on whom the sovereign is though, many states can just legislate morality by threat of death or banishment although on the world stage, it would be seen as a casus belli. I think generally the world wants to preserve freedom for all nations which is why when totalitarian states engage in economic militarism and rearmament everyone seems to rush to liberate them from their sovereigns.

[Anonymous No.22836756]

>>22836596
>Wars have never happened with secular regimes.

Gaza has 40% more people in Mosul and in Mosul 40,000 civilians were killed to remove 1/4th as many ISIS fighters as Hamas has. No one called it genocide. It's what happens in urban combat. You can't say "hey, if your enemy hunkers down in a city, that's it, they win, you can do nothing."

No one gave a shit about that. They cheered the Iraqi victory.

If Switzerland killed a comparable number of French or Germans in a raid, which would be tens of thousands, you don't think bombs would fall all over Zurich, killing kids, especially if the Swiss army embedded with civilians on purposes.

The only reason the Israel war has any meaning to you is because of religion. This is as true for atheists because it's become part of le culture war and if one side says X is bad then Y is evil. If Israel killed a comparable number of Palestinians to Mariupol then we'd have hundreds of thousands of dead, and no, that still wouldn't be "genocide," it would just be callous indifference to civilian losses, same as Dresden or Tokyo.

Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, the USSR, these aren't "Abrahamic," and neither are Hindu rioters but they do the same exact shit. It's just what people do. You care about Israel doing it because you're bought into the culture war. When Muslims do this to each other, if it's just 20k dead, no one blinks. Hell, Kuwait expelled 500,000 Palis after seizing all their property in the 90s and no one even remembers it.

[Anonymous No.22836770]

>>22835215
Christianity is a cope, and that's why it's popular. It's a vague story promising eternal life. It's so vague that it's difficult to criticize, you can always come up with some word salad to justify it. Mental glue

[Anonymous No.22836780]

>>22836770
>Mental glue
I'd rather use mental glue than end up neurotic and wear that as a mentally ill badge of honor.

[Anonymous No.22836782]

>>22836685
>Depends on whom the sovereign is though, many states can just legislate morality by threat of death or banishment although on the world stage, it would be seen as a casus belli
Don't misunderstand; men can TRY to legislate morality, and often do. It does not and has NEVER worked. Look at history. The nazis failed. The soviets failed. The catholics failed. The jews failed. The Islamic theocracies are failing. Democracy failed. The republic turned into the imperium, then it failed.
Just because a system of control is implemented over the physical doesn't mean it ever penetrates into the mental. And as long as the mental isn't penerated, the physical is never secure forever.

[Anonymous No.22836799]

>>22836756
>No one called it genocide
I did
>No one gave a shit about that. They cheered the Iraqi victory.
I did, and I did not cheer.
>If Switzerland killed a comparable number of French or Germans in a raid, which would be tens of thousands, you don't think bombs would fall all over Zurich, killing kids, especially if the Swiss army embedded with civilians on purposes.
That would make it right?
>The only reason the Israel war has any meaning to you is because of religion.
Speak for yourself. I've been anti war and anti murder, and anti colonialism, my entire life. Do not mix me in with your shortfalls.
>If Israel killed a comparable number of Palestinians to Mariupol then we'd have hundreds of thousands of dead, and no, that still wouldn't be "genocide," it would just be callous indifference to civilian losses, same as Dresden or Tokyo.
I haven't called it a genocide at all, not even once in this thread. That's splitting hairs regardless. OK, it doesn't meet the technical requirements of genocide. It's still the wanton murder of innocent children. Does the label matter?
>Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, the USSR, these aren't "Abrahamic," and neither are Hindu rioters but they do the same exact shit. It's just what people do. You care about Israel doing it because you're bought into the culture war. When Muslims do this to each other, if it's just 20k dead, no one blinks. Hell, Kuwait expelled 500,000 Palis after seizing all their property in the 90s and no one even remembers it.
I remember all of it and I shed a tear for all the dead, everywhere, regardless.
I didn't say radical Abrahmism is the only way that these things happen. But it is one of them. Who are you responding to, exactly? It clearly isnt me.
"Palis" is an interesting choice of term.
Methinks you doth protest too much.
Guilty conscience, perhaps?

[Anonymous No.22836823]

>>22836650
It’s funny to me how 4chan cares so much about political structures while hating normies. That’s all it’s really about is programming the normies in a way that’s better for society.
You basically have two competing factions competing for the minds of the normie masses, and one is the evil Jewish elite masterminds who control the media, and the other is anarchic unserious 4channers who control the memes. I always think about how people online memed normies into ironically lamenting the death of Harambe, an unarmed gorilla shot by the police. If anyone actually thought about what it was they were joking about, they would be appalled. But the people who make memes just passed that threshold and the joke took hold in normal people’s consciousness. Same with getting kids to take the Tide Pod challenge.

It’s like the levers of power that control the minds of the normie masses had always been gatekept for centuries by the highest elite meaning-makers in the world. Then suddenly irony-poisoned 4chan kids broke in and just started hitting random buttons. Then people tried to utilize that power for political ideas, then the elite caught on and started leaning on it in their own way, and now it’s a big mess. Still fascinating.

[Anonymous No.22836829]

>>22836823
I don't hate "normies," and regularly take people to task for that form of blatant clueless narcissism here.
Why do you keep projecting your own mania on to my shoulders?

[Anonymous No.22836833]

>>22836823
Oh, I read the rest of your paragraph. My bad. Ignore this
>>22836829
I'm too hyped up on my own bullshit bc the other anon irritated me with the Gaza polemic.
Yeah, it is a big mess and it is interesting, but it probably couldn't have happened any other way. The narrative needed to be destroyed. Now it has and what's left is a smoldering abyss. But for anything new to be built, this had to happen.
I do agree most an0ns are retards.

[Anonymous No.22837228]

>>22835215
>pretending to be christian to spite atheists
lol

[Anonymous No.22837376]

>>22836505
shalom rabbi

[Anonymous No.22837406]

>>22835215

>It's almost as if there's only so much nihilism a person living in modernity can take
about 15 percent of the population need religion in order to not be consumed by nihilism. the rest of us are just find without it.

[Anonymous No.22837407]

>>22837406
So you've deluded yourself into believing
I'll sign the book at your funeral after the suiciee

[Anonymous No.22837412]

>>22835215
to the audience this romance is probably just Sophist

[Anonymous No.22837449]

>>22835215
sadly, there's no depth to the movement. it's all aesthetic trappings. The disaffected youth havent the stomach or the balls for true orthodoxy

[Anonymous No.22837513]

>>22835403
>>22835408
catholics are pathetic and won't do shit
LARP as a crusader all you want

[Anonymous No.22837519]

>>22836472
christianity is a jewish religion

[Anonymous No.22837525]

>>22836665
>You can be a God-fearing Christian and be a communist or a fascist,
you can be a fascist but not a communist

[Anonymous No.22837529]

>>22836624
tribal with a chief?

[Anonymous No.22837533]

>>22835215
The related topic that personally interests me more is the shift away from Abrahamism in many of the same circles. There are a growing number of people in the (for lack of a better term) "greater anti-semitic online sphere" who are basically rejecting not only Christianity and Islam as well as Judaism but the entire Abrahamic weltanschauung on the grounds that it's incompatible with what they see as liberation from Jewish influence. Of especial note is that it's not centralized whatsoever and they're not necessarily gravitating towards any other religion. They're not jumping ship from Jesus to Thor, or even Jesus to Hitler or Jesus to Atheism; they're basically deprogramming themselves and secularizing their anti-semitism and in doing so shoring it up.

[Anonymous No.22837558]

>>22835215
Orthodox Christianity doesn't even convince the first gen descendants of devout people from the old country. It's bizarre as someone from this background to see an small vocal fringe latch on to it for its superficial aesthetics or perceived anti-modernity (in itself a modern view of religion). Will you take power over the world and destroy "modernity" with a religion that eschews being of the world or really doing much else besides preparing for the afterlife?
>>22837533
You're right, it's interesting from a historical perspective to see those circles try go back 1000-2000 years and undo that weltanschauung's effects on social relations, morals, ethics of the family structure, etc.. Are there any other cases of this happening? Maybe it's only possible because people are working from more of a blank slate now? Only time will tell.

[Anonymous No.22837569]

>>22835221
this

[Anonymous No.22837573]

>>22835408
spic mestizo mongrel

[Anonymous No.22837604]

>>22837558
>Are there any other cases of this happening?
Not that I'm aware of, no, and I doubt that it even would have been possible for this kind of thing to happen in this manner. Various flavors of ruler wanting to go back to "the good old days" for one reason or another or simply courting nostalgia or historical glory aren't uncommon at all though.

>Maybe it's only possible because people are working from more of a blank slate now?
That's a factor, but I think it has more to do with the internet than anything else. These days it's largely trivial to get your hands on copies of books and publications that used to be the exclusive domain of academics (like in the pic - the cited piece was written in the 90s and published by an Israeli think-tank) and collectors and to disseminate these works and your commentaries on them to a receptive audience.

>Only time will tell.
If this flavor of thought picks up steam it's going to be a pretty wild ride.

[Anonymous No.22838536]

>>22835320
Kant was wrong. Objective morality does not exist, because morality is attained through memetic evolution. Advantageous morals increase the fitness of a civilization, while deleterious morals lead to degeneracy and decline. Philosophers are merely the source of memetic mutation, which drives evolution, but does not direct it. Morality is beholden to the same forces that steer evolution, like memetic drift and founder effects, and displays the same quirks, such as memetic spandrels, exaptations and atavisms. Only time will tell Good from Evil, as civilizations rise and fall.

[Anonymous No.22838540]

>>22835221
Exactly.

[Anonymous No.22838595]

>>22838536
Ok consequentialist faggot, have fun being slaughtered for the greater good

[Anonymous No.22838802]

>went through all the pop reactionary literature back from 2014
>Evola, Guenon, Spengler, Kant, etc.
>meme myself into a traditionalist
>realize it's all utterly impotent and I was a post modernist all along

[Anonymous No.22838810]

>>22837376
Not worshipping rabbis doesn‘t make one a rabbi

[Anonymous No.22838874]

>>22838802
Well what are you now?

[Anonymous No.22838894]

>>22838874
A husband and father.

[Anonymous No.22838918]

>>22835215
it's difficult to imagine someone confusing the content of these boards with actual thought, so I assume this suggestion is just more unconscious belligerent trolling.

[Anonymous No.22838933]

>>22835215
I genuinely wish I could have a spiritual dimension in my life to help me cope with the drudgery of it but I don't so eh

[Anonymous No.22838942]

>push christians far enough in a debate
>they just seethe about trannies and communists and the social benefit of community picnics
No one here is Christian.

[Anonymous No.22839280]

>>22837533
Nah, that’s mostly bullshit. The whole “Christcuck” schtick has been around for years and was way more popular in 2016/17. The hatred modern Jews have for Christians is plain obvious. Sure there are some questionable similarities between modern Jews and modern Christians, but they have very important differences which most normie Christians aren’t even aware of (namely that they killed Christ and continue to reject him). You’d have to have some ulterior motive to suggest there isn’t at least some utility in pushing the Christian vs Jewish angle in the culture wars.

And most people pushing this stuff DO have an ulterior motive. Not all, but a lot of them are Jewish. This poster I’m replying to could be Jewish. We know that Jews have a vested interest in suppressing Christian reactionaries so why would we assume every anonymous “pagan” to be authentic? Legitimately how do you come back from BAP being outed as a metrosexual Jew surrounded by a huge network of similar pagan Zionists? The whole BAP movement (which is Nietzschean and appropriates Apollonian iconography) got a spotlight episode on Tucker Carlson. Ben Shapiro praised the Bronze Age Mindset book. Right wing Pagan anti-Christianism is not as radical as anyone thinks. It is openly accepted by Jewish conservatism. So I’m just skeptical of anyone who talks like this.

[Anonymous No.22839292]

>>22835215
its the peterson larpers, and /pol/ - "elite" leaking

[Anonymous No.22839312]

>"christian" chantards
nearly as pathetic as "buddhist" chantards

[Anonymous No.22839325]

>>22835221
You have to consider the type of person who both converts and actually stays here, e.g., >>22835408.

I stopped using the site as much. It's not a positive place, especially as relates to spiritual matters. But I still come by every once in a while.

Plus, writing well thought out and encouraging stuff takes effort; spamming crusader memes and hate speech is easy. It's a signal to noise ratio problem that plagues us in general.

We are called on to "put on the new man," but this is not easy.
>>22835294
Right, Saint Augustine is part of the literary canon for a reason. People rediscovering him, Origen, Saint Bonaventure, etc. is going to convince some people because they are convincing writers.

[Anonymous No.22839348]

>>22839280
you worship a dead rabbi as master of the universe, nuff said

[Anonymous No.22839434]

>>22839348
I’m not even Christian. Keep LARPing, I’m sure the Jews are just terrified of that.

[Anonymous No.22839612]

>>22835320
Of all the philosophers I've read that helped turn me to Christianty it was certainly not the autist agnostic Kant

[Anonymous No.22839651]

>>22837519
90 iq pagan cope post. Christianity is a universal truth and the Jews hate it.

[Anonymous No.22839773]

>>22835221
Basically this, nihilism is "truth", all other fairy tales you force yourself to believe are pure cope

[Anonymous No.22839896]

>>22839773
Existentialism is “truth,” in that the world will never reveal its true purpose (or lack thereof) to you, it just is, and the only meaning you can make of it will ultimately come from yourself.

Nihilism and atheism both fail because they are based on assumptions. And belief in the negation of God, the Good, Truth, Meaning, the Divine, etc, requires a much greater leap of faith than any religion.

[Anonymous No.22839914]

>>22839896
I don't care about your metaphysical nonsense, I believe what I see

[Anonymous No.22839979]

>>22839325
I used to use this site a lot and get dragged into shit flinging matches. Last Lent I decided that, instead of killing dead time here I would go to divineoffice.org and pray the Liturgy of the Hours. Truly, a huge improvement, but Satan and his legion have a way of dragging you back to things you hate. As Saint Paul says, we are at war with the members of our body.

Not even Catholic, but I guess the Orthodox do the Hours too, and some Lutherans. It goes back to ancient Judaism, the seven prayers a day. It's mostly Psalms, so quite ecumenical.

[Anonymous No.22840043]

>>22839914
>If God real, why can’t I see him?
Every time.

[Anonymous No.22840089]

>>22835221
/thread

[Anonymous No.22840107]

>>22835403
>>22835408
based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FsRZg__LJo

[Anonymous No.22840152]

>>22839651
>b-but j-j-j-jews hate us!!!
because you're still gentiles, albeit very gullible gentiles

[Anonymous No.22840491]

>>22839612
What were the philosophers that do turned you to Christianity anon? If you don't mind the question

[Anonymous No.22840522]

>>22835408
Catholicism is a loser statistically

[Anonymous No.22840578]

>>22837407

>I need someone else to tell me God's motivations because for some reason he wants me to know but won't just fucking tell me himself
Exact same cope throughout the history of mankind. These people typically send gift card codes to Indian scammers.

[Anonymous No.22840587]

>>22835215
/his/ is literally r/atheism-tier.

[Anonymous No.22840597]

>>22835221
Atheism isn't actually that popular though. Maybe people are participating less in traditional religious practice but if you go out of your way to evangelize your atheism you will get eyerolls.

[Anonymous No.22840615]

>>22835624
>Republics are antiChristian.
The Venetian Republic was a Republic and it was Catholic. The Italian Maritime Republics were Catholic Republics. Malta is still a Catholic Republic to this day.

[Anonymous No.22840646]

>>22835221
I find it's more like the opposite... Do people think contrarian just means whatever the edgy internet sites (still filled with normies these days) decide to hivemind?

t. Christian who hates seeing all these dishonest underagefags become orthodox for /pol/ cred and spam preaching threads that won't help people convert at all.

[Anonymous No.22840682]

>>22840043
It sure is convenient that Yahweh is an incorporeal being outside of space and time, completely incomprehensible and beyond all human perception.
>yes, I have a personal relationship with him

[Anonymous No.22840697]

I think the real problem underlining all of the nu-Christian based redpilled right wing schizo tradcath stuff is that it's based on an understanding of Christianity as something "for the world," something used to glue society together or instill moral values or prevent the West from collapsing or what have you, and that view leads people to miss the point. They think it's about overthrowing the evil world government tyrants one day, or marrying a white girl and having white babies, or some other shit like that. The truth is that the whole point of Christianity is loving God and loving your fellow man, loving all people everywhere, absolutely nothing less, and that is much, much harder than anyone believes. Superhuman, almost. If it weren't for the lives of the saints (not to mention Christ Himself) I'd be hard-pressed to believe it was possible at all.

[Anonymous No.22840809]

>>22839773
> Cannot even bring himself to leave truth un-scare quoted.
> Claims to know the truth.

[Anonymous No.22840828]

Braindead posters need something to post about, whether that be Trump, Kant, or Christianity. They latch onto something and parrot the words they've heard from others.
It's almost as if retards only know how to follow the latest trend.
Also not a /lit/ thread, like all posts on the subject of religion or philosophy.

[Anonymous No.22842255]

>>22835735
Read Orthodoxy by Chesterton, you will benefit from it.

[Anonymous No.22842262]

>>22835215
It's not especially complicated. 4chan is full of contrarian edgelords. Scientific materialism is popular generally, so its unpopular here.

[Anonymous No.22842290]

>>22836770
You seem to be one of these types that are too reasonable to be reasonable, too skeptical to truly believe in anything. At the bottom of extreme skepticism lies only void and lack of meaning. As Chesterton rightfully put it:

> “Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. If you are merely a sceptic, you must sooner or later ask yourself the question, “Why should anything go right; even observation and deduction? Why should not good logic be as misleading as bad logic? They are both movements in the brain of a bewildered ape?” The young sceptic says, “I have a right to think for myself.” But the old sceptic, the complete sceptic, says, “I have no right to think for myself. I have no right to think at all"

Not even mathematics - supposedly the pinnacle of logical and deductive reasoning - can be truly used without some faith that it is correct (see Gödel's incompleteness theorem). Reason and religion walk the same path, and are both methods of proof that are themselves impossible to prove. They are also complementary - kill the first and you're left with blind followers that can see no further than religion because their book and thier priest told them to believe in it. Kill the second, however, and you're left with people that are too skeptical to go anywhere. They will focus on meaningless things in search of meaning (nihilism, materialism, etc.) in a vacuum left by the lack of religion. They will focus in singular virtues of the human being rather than the whole. The modern scientist will claim that only provable things should be believed because we figured it out with our own unquestionable reason, not realizing the contradiction that comes with it. The sociologist will focus on his own flawed conception of compassion.

You will find that well learned Christians have never considered reason to be an attack on thier religion. We see it as more of a confirmation. In Catholicism, at least, that is the case, and has always been. Not too sure about what Prots are doing these days.

[Anonymous No.22842306]

>>22835215
The LARPers are ones who convert to Catholicism or orthodoxy. If you're speaking to a Protestant online you're speaking to an actual Christian who probably goes to church and has been a Christian before the 2016 election.
Protestantism doesn't have the epic cultural statues and icons so it doesn't work for their discord profile aesthetic and Twitter posts.

[Anonymous No.22842316]

>>22842306
It is fundamentally flawed. They get more worked up if you criticize Luther than if you criticize Christ. Not to mention that it is a silly thought to have someone believe in Pastor Jim's megachurch religion founded in the 1800s instead of the Church instituted by Christ Himself.

> And Jesus said onto Peter: you will be the head of a flawed religion, which will bring evil into the world, only for some guy to realize the truth 1500 years later and remove a few books from the Bible according to his own views, therefore enlightening the world with a billion denominations of our faith, of which, Pastor Jim's is the rightful one.

[Anonymous No.22842327]

>>22842316
>is fundamentally flawed. They get more worked up if you criticize Luther than if you criticize Christ.
Literally unheard of. Nobody cares about Luther, he's not like one of your popes or saints that you venerate.
The rest of that is cope as usual from a trad kid. Catholic Church was founded in the 4th century and supports gay marriage and other unbiblical worldly things like siphoning as much money into the pope's pockets as possible historically.

[Anonymous No.22842336]

>>22835221
So you're saying atheism was still contrarian like 10 years ago?

[Anonymous No.22842353]

>>22842306
>Protestantism doesn't have the epic cultural statues and icons so it doesn't work for their discord profile aesthetic and Twitter posts.
Yeah, it also has no dogma.

[Anonymous No.22842363]

>>22842353
Which trad kids vehemently defend online instead of preaching the gospel. They'd rather defend papal infallibility and the idolization of Mary and other extra-biblical nonsense than preach the literal Word of God.

[Anonymous No.22842365]

>>22842363
>instead of preaching the gospel
Your preaching of the gospel is heretical though.

[Anonymous No.22842366]

>>22842327
> supports gay marriage
what?
> founded in the 4th century
mhm and I suppose that Jesus giving Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven was just allegory as usual right? But of course, you, a protestant from a denomination founded in the 17th century or after, is the true inheritor of the "One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" as per the Nicene Creed :)

Not to mention that Protestantism is so devoid of morals and meaning that you can have one Prot denomination be in full support of sodomy and the other be in complete denial that foreigners are human beings. The Catholic Church preaches a faith that is consistent per the traditions of the Apostolic faith. Don't tell me you're one of these Americans that see a headline like "Pope says that trans people have a place in the Church", as is so common per modern media (and naturally taken out of context), and base your entire opinions around that.

> Saint Peter knew nothing, obviously. If only I was there to teach him!

Also there is no point in being a Mass or a congregation if you do not believe in the True Presence. That is, quite literally, the reason behind Masses being a thing

[Anonymous No.22842374]

>>22842327
>Nobody cares about Luther
You mean the guy that gave you the theological grounding (heresy) for why you shouldn't be in the Catholic church?
Just wow...

[Anonymous No.22842381]

>>22842255
Thanks for the rec, I like Chesterton, will definitely have a look.

[Anonymous No.22842395]

>>22842366
Explain these popes and tell me how they were good Christians with the keys to the kingdom
>Boniface VIII
>Calixtus III
>Alexander VI
>Innocent X
>Clement V
>Leo X
>Clement VII
>Pius IV
>Leo XI
Your dogma demands that you defend these wolves in sheep's clothing that murdered and tortured so many people and traded the papal seat among their crime mob family like a round of musical chairs.
>>22842374
Nobody cares in the sense that he is not treated as divine like the saints and popes are in Catholicism. The point is the Bible, not Martin Luther.

[Anonymous No.22842417]

>>22842395
Papal infallibility to institute new dogma. A Pope is quite literally unable to institute something like "gay marriage being good". There are, however, human shortcomings in any faith system or political one. Also, you know of Papal shortcomings because they are a central authority, whereas I don't know about Protestant pastors doing terrible things because this is kept at the local level, only the people around them knowing about it, although it obviously exists.

The dogma of Papal infallibility is not one stating that the Pope is perfect. If so, he would be Christ.

Sola Scriptura is also very silly if you consider Luther preaching that and then taking away a few books of Scripture from the Bible. Protestantism is fundamentally hypocritical. Come back home, brother

[Anonymous No.22842431]

>>22842417
>[Luther] taking away a few books of Scripture from the Bible.
He did not do this.

[Anonymous No.22842432]

>>22842417
This would be like if Paul kept torturing and killing Christians while preaching around the world.
This would be like if King David was commanding the Israelites to be homosexuals and legalize rape and saying that his word supercedes the written word of God up to that point cause he carries muh traditions
You are defending a den of vipers.
Come back home to the original church, followers of the Word of God, not man.

[Anonymous No.22842444]

>>22835221
Stfu

[Anonymous No.22842520]

>>22842363
> If you're speaking to a Protestant online you're speaking to an actual Christian who probably goes to church
And what's the point? They don't partake in communion, don't have any sacraments or even a liturgy. Outside of that they don't have fasts or liturgical year. So how is going to a protestant church any better than being an online ortholarper?
>>22842363
Dogma is not a thing in itself, it sets the framework to understand the scripture correctly and to cut the heretical interpretations off. So defending it is vital in preaching the Gospel.
As a protestant where do you even get your canon from? On what basis you believe that those 4 books make up the Gospel, if that was decided by the Church, whose dogmas you reject, moreover it was decided extra-biblically.
Aside from that, do you reject the Trinity, since it's not clearly formulated anywhere in the Bible? And what's your take on 2 Thessalonians 2:15 where Paul affirms the tradition?

[Anonymous No.22842625]

>>22835221
I agree with this.
The inherently anonymous nature of 4chan leads to it being a mouthpiece for what is uncouth to say with your name and job resume attached to it. In this way, 4chan compensates for what normie society lacks an understanding of. We build the antithesis to whatever thesis is present irl. Note the Gnostic and holy mysteries orientation of the christianity on this board. Faith, superstition, and sacred lambs are what our scientific lense has eliminated in the public space.
Our history of devotion has become alienated from the common man who forgets his dreams and drives headstrong through his 9 to 5 never once stopping to wonder what it is all for and on the occasion that these thoughts bubble up, as they inevidibly do, the modern man freaks out and goes on tiktok or jerks it to porn. The pornography and violence in everyday media shows an inversion of the conscience and unconscience mind, where human free will has become mystical and addiction/depression has become mundane.
Have you ever felt that the people you speak to here are more real than the in the flesh NPCs you stumble into at work or the store or where ever? I find it funny how the Internet has made possible my own reconnection with nature and faith in myself. All of this tech started off so scientific, but now it is consuming itself and becoming a way to access the humanities. I sometimes wonder how mystical all of this is. Are we the wizards of today? If so, then we are implicity more religious in the sense that we respect that which is beyond the veil of the conscience mind.

[Anonymous No.22842668]

>>22842625
>Are we the wizards of today?
We're the heretics they'd burn at the stake 500 years ago.
t. Orthobro.
Good post also.

[Anonymous No.22842699]

>>22842625

[Anonymous No.22842716]

>>22835215
There is an inherent appeal in mysticism when the material becomes boring

[Anonymous No.22842815]

>>22842417
>Sola Scriptura is also very silly if you consider Luther preaching that and then taking away a few books of Scripture from the Bible
Why are Catholics so ignorant about Church history and the history of the canon despite always being the ones complaining about Protestants knowing nothing about the church before 1517? The "apocrypha" (I disagree with Luther's use of this term, but since it's the accepted term now I'll use it) was never considered Canon. You're only regurgitating the lies you've been told, nothing else. Let's see what Luther himself had to say about the "apocrypha", straight from the pages of his own translation of the Bible, echoing St. Jerome and Athanasius: „Apokrypha: Das sind Bücher: so der heiligen Schrift nicht gleich gehalten, und doch nützlich und gut zu lesen sind“, or in English "Apocrypha: These are books that, though not esteemed like the Holy Scriptures, are still both useful and good to read."

[Anonymous No.22842833]

>>22840682
Everything exists outside of space and time so you better start being skeptical of a lot more stuff besides God

[Anonymous No.22842918]

>>22842815
It's a bit rich to claim someone "knows nothing of history," and then to claim that the deuterocanonical books we "never considered canonical." They were affirmed at the Council of Rome in 382 AD.

It is true that Saint Jerome expressed reservations about these books. We have many such doubts expressed by early Church Fathers; hence the need for a canon. There are similar debates in the Jewish records over the inclusion of Ecclesiastes, and it is much less clear when their canon was closed, or how long multiple canons existed for.

In any event, Saint Jerome himself did not consider himself the last word on the issue, and merely submitted his viewpoints. He accepted the judgement of his Church. And it's worth noting that he uses to books often in theological writings, not distaining them.

An almost identical canon including the deuterocanonical books was used by both East, West, and the Oriental Churches for over a millennia before the Reformation.

We also see the deuterocanonical books, except for Baruch, in the Gelasian Decree.

[Anonymous No.22842966]

>>22840697
Good post. But I think there’s more to it than just “this is good for the West so I’ll practice it.”
The biggest defining element of the based tradcath movement is that they adopt Christianity because they see it as the antithesis of world Jewry. Here’s the timeline:
>33 AD The Jews kill Christ
>The Church of Jesus Christ is developed in the first millennium
>~1000AD The Great Schism happens and divides the church
>~1500AD The Protestant Reformation happens and further divides the church
>~1700AD The Enlightenment happens and moves people away from the church, also the Emancipation of the Jews happens under Napoleon as a result
>~1850 The Jewish Enlightenment happens
>Final century of the 2nd Millennium under Christ - Europe is destroyed in 2 world wars, The Jews acquire a state in the Holy Land
>~2000 9/11 happens and the Jews deceive the world in order to wage an endless war for the Jewish state
>You Are Here
They think of the world as an ongoing conflict between Jews and Catholics, and I’ll admit when you distill it down like that, it’s rather compelling. But Christianity doesn’t really say anything about this, like you said, it’s about the ultimate display of love in self-sacrifice. It doesn’t say that Jesus chose to plant the seeds of his church in Europe for this grand narrative of Whites and Jews. It does seem like no coincidence that the group that seems to be causing all the problems just happens to be the one that killed Christ. But even if there’s truth to all of that, I think you have to be a bit “schizo” to fully believe it. And you have to read more into Christianity than exists in the scriptures or in the public consciousness of the vast majority of people who practice it.

[Anonymous No.22843022]

>>22842966
The entire premise that Jews hate Christians is ludicrous. There's a church on literally every single street corner in America and officials are still sworn in on a Bible. The only things Jews hate is European Man united in a higher purpose. Christendom was a source of that unity for a measure of time but it's been completely castrated and impotent and a mongrel religion that's arguably the source of all secular humanism to begin with.
I could scrawl a swastika on a urinal wall and make national headlines whereas Biden is still going to tweet "Merry Christmas" next Monday as a matter of course because it's the cultural hegemony and pretending it's rebellion is total impotency.

[Anonymous No.22843114]

>>22843022
Rabbinical Judaism is defined by rejection of Christ as the messiah and a 2000 year history of antipathy with European Christians. So it’s not ridiculous to say they hate Christianity, it’s a part of their religion and their history as a people.
>But they don’t hate Christians, just the ones who are anti-Semitic! They like Christians as long as they’re good goys!
Yeah, no shit. I don’t see how that changes anything. If you wrote Rev 3:9 on a bathroom stall you’d get in just as much trouble, if not more, because they know an anti-Semitic Christian uprising has way more potential than nazi larping.

[Anonymous No.22843134]

>>22843114
>anti-Semitic Christian uprising has way more potential than nazi larping.
Right, that's why my wife keeps seeing facebook ads for local churches having prayer circles for Israel...
Get real. If you went to any priest or preacher about your opinion on niggers and jews, they'd pray for your soul.

[Anonymous No.22843582]

>>22843022
I don't think it's necessarily ludicrous - the passages in the Talmud seething about Christ are proof enough - I just don't think that the grand overarching conflict running through all of world history is between Jews and Christians, or Jews and white people, or anything else like that, and framing Christianity as some kind of militant order dedicated to fighting for a side in one of those battles misses the point entirely.

[Anonymous No.22843599]

>>22843114
Anti-semitic christians have had the reins of power since the end of Rome and for all that time have been wildly impotent to seriously address the jewish problem. Some caricatures and the occasional hate crimes are meaningless when religious and secular authorities routinely mark your blood enemies as imperfected originators of the faith, with legal and social protections—often even privileges to commit usury and enter cultural institutions.

Meanwhile the Nazis solved the problem in a few years only to have every major jewish collaborationist regime in the world team up to stop them and designate such actions as political antipode for eternity.

[Anonymous No.22843700]

>>22843599
Yeah Nazis really solved the problem with that Haavara Agreement. Keeping Jews in segregated ghettoes and praying for their conversion seems to me a much better idea than letting them have their own pedophile ethnostate where they can keep every European country hostage with nuclear blackmail.

[Anonymous No.22843746]

>>22843022
>The entire premise that Jews hate Christians is ludicrous.
Of course they do, and it's understandable why. However, the type of hate that most anti-semitic christians like to imagine is way off the mark. They like to talk about "Jews seething that they rejected the messiah" or "Jews worship Satan and are mad that Christ is gonna win in the end" or some other such delusions and all of that is bullshit. Jews hate Christians because Christians stole their tribal deity, claimed it for their own and wrote a bunch of heretical and blasphemous fanfic then had the nerve to tell the Jews that ACHKSHUALLY the Jews are the ones who are wrong. It's not rage, it's not jealousy and it certainly isn't "seething"; it's disgust. Jesus too. Jews don't hate Jesus for "being the messiah but abandoning the Jews" or whatever, they view him as a traitor to his people who sold out their ancestry to the gentile fucking shits and for being a Helenized, rabble-rousing leader of a blasphemous, idolatrous cult who led Jews to apostasy. The only reason he's not just a footnote along with any number of others who managed to get executed for similar reasons is because of the continued existence of Christianity and its interactions with world Jewry.

[Anonymous No.22843768]

>>22843746
Nailed it. The jew hate for Jesus is completely understandable from their own perspective and it's not merely because they're demonic supervillains aligned with evil like a cartoon.

[Anonymous No.22843772]

>>22835215
Why
Does everyone on this forsaken website hate Jews? Everyone Jew I know in real life is pretty cool

[Anonymous No.22843776]

>>22843700
Then you‘re a patent retard simultaneously unwilling to engage with the realities of biological determinism, the futility and consequences of christian handling of jews, and the exclusive blame of anglosphere and russian world powers in the creation of israel beyond getting them out of Europe. Saying you‘d rather have a parasite than a miniscule sliver of an external threat almost incapable of surviving without constant western aid is too gay and dishonest to take seriously.

[Anonymous No.22843892]

>>22842668
The heretics were never burnt at the stake against their will. They were always given a chance to renounce their heresy. They chose to burn alive. How many anons would rather burn on the stake than renounce their positions in this thread?

[Anonymous No.22843943]

>>22835221
That is a very reductionist answer. We must consider that the average 4chan user ages, as he ages so do the type of problems he deals with on a daily basis, as well as his perspective of the world. I don't doubt that there is contrarianism that leads people to move from one ideology to another, but in matters such as religion one as a person is forced to question the purpose of one's existence and existence.

[Anonymous No.22843983]

>>22842625
conscious KON-chuss - having awareness, being within awareness
subconscious sub-KON-chuss - happening below awareness
unconscious un-KON-chuss - happening outside awareness
conscience KON-chints - emotions resulting from moral judgment
No ill will

[Anonymous No.22844048]

>>22843943
I don't believe hardly any oldfags are Christian. It's entirely a zoomer phenomenon. There's a marked juvenility in how obnoxious the majority of tradlarps are.

[Anonymous No.22844073]

>>22844048
Yeah. The tradfag thing comes off as alienated youths who don’t fit in in the modern world so are looking for some type of brotherhood. I’d bet most are right wing and think they’re sticking it to the libs or something. It’s a purely internet phenomenon. Maybe mega shyster churches have young people, but parishes are seeing a decrease in their flock. No young adult is going without parents. Them tradlarpers don’t even practice the basic shit. It’s an aesthetic

[Anonymous No.22844121]

>>22835215
liking serphim rose is a great indicator that you shouldn't take that person seriously

[Anonymous No.22844125]

>>22844073
If there's 30+ year olds with a Christ-chan folder, navigating the Kali Yuga is the least of their problems.