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/lit/ - Literature

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22433832 No.22433832 [Reply] [Original]

>Joyce’s own brother Stanislaus called it either “the work of a psychopath or a huge literary fraud.”
So which is it /lit/?

>> No.22433835

>>22433832
It's not that hard, see Anthony Burgess' essay on it.

>> No.22433838

>>22433832
It's the work of a madman. His daughter was a literal schizo, so chances are Joyce himself got a taste of that as well.

>> No.22433843

>>22433832
Take quotes like that in the context of the time. What Joyce was doing was still very unfamiliar ground and most people couldn't comprehend it. By today's postmodern standards, his work is positively quaint.

>> No.22433850

>>22433843
> By today's postmodern standards, his work is positively quaint.
Are you actually dumb?

>> No.22433874

>>22433850
Unequivocally, but I'm still right about this.

>> No.22433884

>>22433832
Those would be the same thing tho...

>> No.22433894

>>22433874
The only other book that is inscrutable as Finnegans Wake of any note is Naked Lunch and that was written by a guy strung out on drugs. Also its not exactly a good thing that books like this exist and are promoted as legitimate literature.

>> No.22434021

>>22433894
Not even, Naked Lunch is positively scrutable compared to the Wake — at least it’s written in English, even if the plot is a surreal cutup scifi seemingly postapocalyptic drugfilled wasteland. But there’s at least things to hold onto. But you’re more right than the other poster. I don’t think anything has come near the Wake in terms of challengingness and inscrutability, and Joyce making a portmanteau dialect out of some dozens of languages fused together to create a dreamlike storyline that fuses literary, religious, and mythological allusions from as far back in history as he can to the modern day and out of countless cultures, is anything “quaint”, regardless of all the postmodern experimentation that came after. Arno Schmidt’s Bottom’s Dream is another contender (it used to be a meme here, but I doubt any of the memers even read it, as is true for most /lit/ memes), but doesn’t have anywhere near the same hipster-popularity and likely wouldn’t have been what it was without the influence of FW (he admitted to deriving a lot from it).

>> No.22434034

>le bimbly boo irishman
it's drivel and I'll never fucking read it, stop posting this dogshit

>> No.22434040

>>22434034
filtered

>> No.22434043

>>22433832
Imagine your parents giving your sibling a nice respectable name like James, and then calling you Stanislaus.
No wonder he had a pained ass.

>> No.22434049

>>22434040
>dude it's like.... a hermetic metaphor for the great work or something
That's it? searing

>> No.22434051

>>22434034
Read Dubliners and the Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, he was a fine author until he became addicted to huffing his own farts metaphorically, which coincided with his addiction to huffing Nora's farts in actuality (also what blinded him, she sharted in his eye).

>> No.22434053

Noo you can't just be talented and have fits of productivity, everything is shit and everyone is insane and needs god tier health insurance.

>> No.22434079

>>22434051
The Dead is one of my favorite short stories of all time. Finnegan's Wake is fucking dogshit. He's not that smart. He's not that insightful. He's not that profound. The only thing Joyce's proto-schizoposting has going for it is chronology bias - he was technically the first to do it. Nobody's impressed by references to Maimonides, dude.

>> No.22434090

>>22434079
>Finnegan's Wake
Finnegans*

>> No.22434214

>>22433832
I was at a party the other day; some bloke brought his kid and the fucker was gargling forth words- sounds, that must have been straight out of Finnegans Wake, so as a joke I asked him if he dictated it to Joyce and his eyes lit up but he didn't say anything. I'm now wondering whether or not I was high but I think it might have been real.

>> No.22434528
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22434528

>>22434021
Well I said book of note. My high school English teacher, who is a semi-famous structuralist poet, "wrote" a book consisting of lines connecting incidences of letters in an actual book.

>> No.22434537

>>22434214
It was real but entirely unexceptional. Kid's eyes light up at fucking spongebob. He probably just liked that you were giving him attention.

>> No.22434591

>>22434214
I was at a party a long time ago where a disheveled greasy poorly dressed guy was excitedly quoting the first/last sentence of FW to a completely uninterested girl sitting next to him
Ah, to be young again

>> No.22434693

>>22433832
read it with annotations one page a day, finwake is great for this. the wake is certainly not just shizo brabble, there is definitely something to it.

>> No.22434827

>>22433832
it’s a vibes based work, that’s really it, it doesnt have to be a conspiracy against you

>> No.22435024

>>22433832
In order to understand it you need to be slowly being driven crazy after contracting syphilis from sleeping with prostitutes and then you must get as absurdly drunk as an Irish drunk raised on whisky and beer from when they were five years old and then you must read it out loud, sounding all the words out phonetically, and understand that you are reading it as that aforementioned Irish drunk attending his own wake and contemplating your entire life. Only then will it make total sense.

>> No.22435412
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22435412

>like a rudd yellan gruebleen orangeman in his violet indigonation
>on the verge of selfabyss
>Idendifine the individuone
>alcoherently

>> No.22435439

>>22434051
People who take the fart letters this seriously mark themselves as unable to interpret Joyce.

>> No.22435546

He was implying that Lucia wrote it and James stole it.

>> No.22436126

>>22434034
Said the vulgarian who can't capitalise.

>> No.22436130

>>22433832
What the fuck did Stannie know about anything?
All he did was pay Jim's bills and complain about his drinking.

>> No.22436504

>>22434021
I haven't thought of Zettels Traum in years

>> No.22436557
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22436557

>>22433850
obv he is lmao

>>22433832
link to quote?

>>22433838
what do you think the book is / how do you imagine he wrote it

>>22433894
>Naked Lunch
honestly not difficult to understand at all
did you really have trouble with it
or did you just blow through it while shrugging

>>22434049
fffffffffiltered

>>22434079
>The Dead is one of my favorite short stories of all time
why... (inb4 you dont have an answer)

>>22435024
>after contracting syphilis from sleeping with prostitutes
source? you dont actually think portrait was factual right? you dont right? and you know he never visited a hooker in his life right? Not exactly well read I take it.

>>22435412
this

>>22436504
you must not have a copy

>> No.22436757
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22436757

>>22433832
Ezra Pound said after wading through it: “Nothing so far as I can make out, nothing short of divine vision or a new cure for the clapp can possibly be worth all that circumambient peripherization.”

>> No.22436766

>>22436757
Pound was 100x more pretentious. "circumambient peripherization" lol

>> No.22436769

>>22436766
>circumambient peripherization
I think he was trolling kek