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/lit/ - Literature

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22369083 No.22369083 [Reply] [Original]

Ok but if a loving god is real why DO bad things happen? Why do things like birth defects exist?

>> No.22369117

>>22369083
God is real, he's just not the christian fairy cuck god.

>> No.22369121

>>22369083
Read Book of Job and Leibniz

>> No.22369125

The argument is that the kosmos is like a great tapestry. If you look very closely at one part, it might appear ugly. But taken as a whole, it all works together. In my own personal experience my worst years led up to good. You should watch the movie Jacob's Ladder.

>> No.22369127

>>22369083
>God created everything
>God created only good
>evil is not good
>therefore God did not create evil
>therefore evil is uncreated
evil doesn't even exist, nerd. why do bad things happen? who said they do?

>> No.22369218

>>22369083
our misuse of free will.

it requires, logically, a possibility for evil (but not its actuality).

We, in deciding wrong, realize that possibility.
decay, destruction, and etc came by through the first sin, of disobeying God in the garden.
Most of the other ones are our own fault, like murders, poisonings, violence, hate, greed, etc.
To use your own example, incorrectly and illegally dumped chemical waste is one of the factors for birth defects. and it's often fueled by greed to not have to pay to not do harm.

>> No.22369235
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22369235

>>22369127

>> No.22369238

>>22369125
i dont get how any of this connects to jacob's ladder

>> No.22369280

>>22369235
i didn't say there was "zero difference between good and bad things". that would be a nonsense statement since things being, as they are, created, cannot be bad, so there are no "bad things". good things can be corrupted and that corruption is bad, but it doesn't make the thing itself bad

>> No.22369285

>>22369238
Jacob saw the angels who were helping him as demons who were torturing him because he didn't understand that what they were removing from him was harmful to him.

>> No.22369599

>>22369285
>gibberish to try to get someone to watch a bad movie
back to /tv/ you rat.

>> No.22369989

>>22369083
People that ask these kinds of questions never really were human in the first place but demons or possessed entities

>> No.22369992
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22369992

>>22369599

>> No.22370017

>>22369989

>asks a completely reasonable question
>the delusional architecture kicks in and the respondent doesn't even resort to the usual mistaken theological apologetics, he simply dismisses and dehumanizes his interlocutor out of hand

>> No.22370022

>>22369127
God created evil as well, but it's a bit more like a vacuum or a negative. For something to be good, you gotta compare it to evil. Just like to be able to love you have to be able to hate.

>> No.22370030

>>22369280
He was agreeing with you and you were too dumb to get it.

>> No.22370032

God is loving only in the sense that he is a refuge for all creatures, which doesn't discriminate, which is forgiving.

>> No.22370041

>>22370017
Bait taken. Log off.

>> No.22370079

>>22369083
What reason do we have to believe that God is good besides that he told us he was good.
It's just a presupposition, and the people who believed it struggled immensely to make sense of it, the whole thing is called theodicy, to vindicate God.
But if you need an entire field of mental gymnastics just to say God is good, doesn't that imply that it's not very obvious he is actually all good?
Doesn't a flawed creation imply a flawed creator?
Before the Abrahamic tradition everyone just characterized the gods as flawed but beautiful and powerful forces, sometimes good sometimes bad, just like everything else in existence.
If God didn't tell us he was all good you wouldn't think he was, so why believe him?
Also an interesting fact is that a bunch of Jewish scholars and theologians agreed to abandon theodicy after the Holocaust, they just gave up trying to vindicate him.

>> No.22370095

>>22370079
God by definition has to be good in order to be God.

>> No.22370406

>>22370095
No he doesn't.

>> No.22370915

>>22369083
God basically wanted to create the most epic world possible filled with all ranges of beauty and horror. The fairness come in the fact that reincarnation is real. Not based on karma but simply eternal so that everyone lives all lives and so comparing two lives isnt fair but if you roll two dice a billion times they each come out with more or less the same sum.

>> No.22372318

>>22370079
before abrahamic tradition, "the gods" were just warlords, humans who had attained some tyrannical power in their region and proclaimed themselves deities.
This then morphed into Abrahamic, where they edited out the human origins of "god". This is the reason why when you study pre-Abrahamic religions in that region, you'll find the religious texts use the EXACT SAME imagery to describe their "god" (e.g. "King of kings", which was a phrase around a lot longer than just in the bible). It's also why abrahamic religions are so bellicose and warrior-cultish, because all the ethics and morals and teachings in the bible (at least the OT) is meant to create a society of warriors and subservient women who will mass produce more warriors.

>> No.22372369

>>22372318
Is that true? I thought the Pharaohs or Caesars or other god-emperor type things usually said they were the son of a God, or an incarnation in some way. But they still had the idea of the gods as reigning from above and not being human.

>> No.22372374

You people actually believe in God, lmao fr fr

>> No.22372414
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22372414

>>22369083
>>>/his/

>> No.22372431

>>22372374
You have blind faith that God doesn't exist outside of what you know, you could know 1/2 of everything and you could still not know something such as God.

It's easier to believe in God than the insane anti-science and self-refuting creation superstitions that atheists/naturalists/evolutionists believe and which they falsely call science and indoctrinate into kids with tax funding. Naturalism/Evolutionism is the dumbest religion in the world. They literally suspend the laws of nature during their creation sermons and they have no miracle-maker God to make any of their miracles happen; they don't even understand this because the average atheist is just a brainwashed school kid who unironically believes their ancestors were ape-like creates which came from fish which came from slime which came from a rock which came from nothing. If you're going to subscribe to a Godless belief system where everything is the result of purely physical processes, then your origin story or creation story can't be something that violates the own pretenses of your belief system.

God being Almighty, all powerful, being able to work miracles or make time, space, matter, and all things is entirely possible as the foundation for the history recorded in the Bible.

Atheists/naturalists/evolutionists subscribe to a belief where only natural/physical processes account for everything; but by the known laws of science (which they say evolved, but magically stopped evolving once life could be sustained) their creation story is impossible.

The Law of Cause and Effect, the Law of Conservation of Energy/Mass, the Law of Increasing Entropy, the Laws of Universal Information, and the Law of Biogenesis are all violated; but they just suspend the laws of science during their creation myth sermons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2DzHLUfwc

Atheism is seriously the most foolish of any belief system, but since it and its origin/creation story is taught as "science" in the school systems and tax-funded, everyone just believes on faith. Birds making birds, some birds dying out doesn't prove their ancestors were anything other than birds; but they don't understand the leap of faith they're taking there because they're brainwashed and don't critically analyze their own beliefs; they don't even see how it's a faith-based belief, a belief which must be taken on faith since it can't be proven with observational science. Or you get the endless special pleading and burden of proof shifting. Or you go farther and you get the nuts who say literally no-thing is akshually some-thing created everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPlTsWFYBIM

Or you go far enough and you get the nuts who think we're living in a simulation or that ayylmaos seeded life on earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abugiGHOHg0

I've even heard atheists say human beings are still fish and also at the same time that we're apes and that we're related to the banana.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeSxIqAYP4M

>> No.22372435

>>22372369
yes they often claimed descent from "the gods", as a way to validate their claim to rulership (and godhood), but they also literally claimed to be gods too.
Although the time period i'm referring to is prior to the Caesars, although the early pharaohs it absolutely applies to, but warlords were proclaiming themselves to be gods in the Middle East long before the Romans (or Greeks for that matter) showed up on the scene.

The issue at hand isn't whether "god or the gods" exist or not, the issue is whether the Abrahamic version of "god" is actually god. And the evidence points to Abrahamic "god" being derivative of older Phoenician/Sumerian/Babylonian/Assyrian religions, which even the Abrahamics will acknowledge as "satanic". Abrahamics forgot their own origins, literally edited their own holy books to erase any mention of the human/warlord origins of gods (while still retaining much of the imagery and style of the warlord-religions).

A person can believe in a god/creator of some sort and yet still reject all man-made attempts at religion (especially the warrior cult Abrahamic religions).

>> No.22372438

>>22372414
/lit/'s always full of philosophy threads which aren't discussing literature

>> No.22372447

>>22372431
I can’t prove god does or doesn’t exist but that’s no reason to believe in him

>> No.22372454

>>22372438
Board rules are pretty clear. What piece of literature are we discussing.

>> No.22372479

>>22372454
Obviously the Bible, you're just offended by this topic. Second reply in the thread specifically mentions one of the books from the Bible, the book of Job.

Just hide the thread or else go post the same reply in the many other philosophy threads which aren't even discussing anything that can be referenced to a book. If OP wants to discuss other gods, those also have relevant scriptures/literature.

People like you are so annoying and such massive hypocrites.

>> No.22372493

>>22369083
Only God (the Absolute) is perfect.
The world is not God.
The world is imperfect.

>> No.22372514

>>22372479
I don't remember god being loving in the Bible. Haven't read it all though, generally OT and Revelations. I'd presume from what I've read that God isn't all loving, therefore why would God care about birth defects? I presume it's all part of the plan.

>> No.22372515

>>22372431
a lotta words to say you're a dumbass

>> No.22372644

>>22372514
Don't reply to threads regarding literature you haven't read. Dealing with some ignoramus's presumptions is not worth my time.

>> No.22372674

>>22372447
Maybe you can't, but creation proves a Creator just as a book proves an author. As I already said, atheism/naturalism is self-refuting if you consider science and logic, so the alternative must be true; not that it means that proves my God but the God of the Bible doesn't contradict any observational science. The naturalists conflate their philosophy and their interpretation of data in historical science with observational science. They never really have arguments in defense of their world view that are based in truth, the most I usually get is some underage teen's playground insult; since they never matured past grade school when they were indoctrinated to believe their ancestors were magic transforming fish and that everything came from nothing on blind faith because they were told to recite it on a test; or some nonanswer that nothing can be knowable at which point you're just getting into vain self-mental-felating philosophy and at which point nothing that person says is of any value.

>>22372515
Not an argument, I accept your concession. Really weak showing so far.

>> No.22372708

>>22370406
Yes he does you fucking cunt. Otherwise why shouldn't we call him Satan.

>> No.22372722

>>22369083
>>22370079
Your definition of love is perverted.

>> No.22372727

>>22372431
>>22372674
you're using so many thought-terminating cliches that it's a useless exercise for anyone to try to argue with you.
you can tell yourself that that means you won the argument if it makes you feel good about yourself.

>> No.22372923

>>22372708
We wouldn't call him Satan because we don't say Satan was the uncaused cause, it doesn't have anything to do with the attributes we give to each of them.
>>22372722
How?

>> No.22372948

>>22369083
>the problem of evil
This is answered simply by the way Mormons think.
God doesn't know the future.

>> No.22372959

>>22370079
Theodicy becomes a MORE important topic after the Jewish Holocaust during WW2. Or after any holocaust for that matter.

>> No.22373139

>>22372948
i like their idea of a dumbfuck, easily tricked god
the kind of god that you can trick that you aren't having sex by putting it in the ass or soaking and having your friends jump and down on the bed

>> No.22373190

>>22372674
>they were indoctrinated to believe their ancestors were magic transforming fish and that everything came from nothing on blind faith because they were told to recite it on a test;

You just outed yourself as a completely retarded and uneducated moron. Not that there was any doubt since you're the board's resident clown at this point.

>> No.22373816

>>22372948
Aren't Mormons essentially gnostics where there's an endless chain of demiurges creating their own universes from which new demiurges are born?
I wonder if there's a mystical Mormonism out there that aims to escape to the realm of the original God.

>> No.22374119

>>22369083
>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -Isaiah 45:7
Birth defects are no accident either, they are orchestrated by the Abrahamic God.
>And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord? - Exodus 4:11.
Even when Satan wanted to do evil to Job, he explicitly receives god's permission to do so. The ancient Israelites saw God as a very powerful being who uniquely happened to favor them, while being prone to violent anger and jealousy. God being pure good, while Satan is the evil one countering him, is a distorted view by modern christians.

>> No.22374136

If god is granting you a pwrfect eternal life after this one then nothing that happens in this life really matters, right? Except as some sort of exam to see how you respond when faced with absolute shit.

>> No.22374251
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22374251

>>22369083
Because as an eternal being, you occasionally want to experience challenges and a rougher world. You get to spend forever in paradise. Occasionally we reincarnate. Think of life lile a horror video game. They are not meant to be easy either. This is what NDErs say.

And NDEs are more real than this world, in every way. For instance, NDErs report expanded intelligence. One NDEr said that the greatest supergenius who ever lived, with the help of the greatest supercomputer of all time, would be immeasurably dwarfed by the intelligence she had access to while in the light, so much so that it would be closer and fairer to compare the intelligence of Einstein to that of an ant. Literally and seriously. And as another NDEr described their cognition during their life review:

>"I looked up, and saw four translucent screens begin to appear - and form a kind of gigantic, cubed box all around me. It was through this method that I was shown my life review. Without ever having to turn my head, I panoramically saw my past, present, future - and there was even a screen behind me that displayed a tremendous amount of scientific data, numbers, symbols and universal codes. I was in complete amazement because (as all of this was occurring) I realized I understood absolutely everything I was seeing - even in the most microscopic detail! There seemed to be no limit to the thoughts I was able to think or the ideas I was able to absorb. In this space, what we tend to think of as a limited comprehension or single-mindedness here on Earth, becomes truly infinite and limitless here! I kept thinking over and over how true it is what they say: that when we go back home - we all really are of one mind!"

From here: https://youtu.be/U00ibBGZp7o

Another way NDEs are more real is how one NDEr said that he saw more than 80 new primary colors in the NDE world, compared to the 3 primary colors we have here.

From here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist

So heaven is undeniably real.

>> No.22374667
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22374667

>>22369083
Ecclesiastes 3: 1- 8:
"1¶To everything there isa season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck upthat which isplanted;

3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."

Evil exists because God is a better storyteller than you. Read Shakespeare.

>> No.22374674

>>22369125
Jacob's ladder has a terribly shitty ending

>> No.22374677

>>22369083
>bad
No such thing. A man made idea (for good reason). Things just happen, that's about it.

>> No.22374830

>>22373816
Such a thing would require Mormons to actually think and engage in philosophy, which is fatal to their worldview.

>> No.22374888

>>22369218
So god wants to punish innocent babies instead of greedy capitalists who ruin his garden? Because the capitalists aren't being punished.

That's messed up. Enjoy your torture god.

>> No.22374912

>>22374830
The Mormon church is a grift. I found out they scam cancer payients and their families out of millions of dollars.
I realize that even their foubder was executed for being a grifter, but it's still happening. Fuck em.

>> No.22374916

>>22369083
God had a sense of drama. He is an artist after all.

>> No.22374917

the sins of the father carry on to his descendants, up to 10 generations