WTF is GRRM doing??

[Anonymous No.22131807]

He’s had precisely 14 fucking years to get book 6 out, and we have precisely nothing + noneventful sample chapters. Is he also writing DOS and releasing them together??

And Winds needs to be a fucking masterpiece. Not a belch of uneventful food-descriptions. It has to blow us out of the water. Every character has to be at their best. I wanna see Euron’s blood sacrifice summon sea dragons. I wanna see Daenerys becoming a Valyrian goddess. I wanna see Cersei using wildfire. I want the Targaryen restoration. I want the White Walkers to be a world-ending threat (probably defeated at the God’s Eye)

[Anonymous No.22131817]

>>22131807
You need to accept that the book is never coming out. Move on.

[Anonymous No.22131821]

>>22131807
Fat and lazy, it’s over. He never cared about writing, all he ever wanted was to be famous and rich to eat all day and collect toys.

[Anonymous No.22131823]

>>22131817
>Move on.
No. And if he does die before release, I’ll write my own fucking series.

[Anonymous No.22131826]

>>22131807
>>22131817
Reminder that even if winds comes out (which is a big if), the final book will never be finished. Grrm has 10 or so years left in his lifespan at best, and will likely decline mentally to the point where he literally can't write long before he buys it
You will never get an ending

[Anonymous No.22131827]

>>22131807

Either The White Walkers wipe out humanity and we get the ending with the graves llike GRRM originally thought or it ends with a marriage pact to stop the war and Jon goes into exile with them offering himself over Glly's baby monster as the prince who was promised to the others

[Anonymous No.22131841]

>>22131807
Nigga got paid. Nigga don't need to do shit no mo'

But really, if the show was anything to go by, it's completely forgotten about and ppl need to move on from that meme

[Anonymous No.22131849]

just feed that slob to a big AI machine and let it finish it

[Anonymous No.22131888]

Didn't he say that the story needed at least 3 more books to be finished?

[Anonymous No.22131902]

>>22131888
>Didn't he say that the story needed at least 3 more books to be finished?
No idea. And he still has Dunk and Egg, Fire and Blood Volume 2, and the other prequel shows he's working on

[Anonymous No.22131905]

>>22131807
>And Winds needs to be a fucking masterpiece.
Yeah, this is the main reason.
It's not going to be a masterpiece even if it gets finished, but with all that time spent on the TV show and the abysmal way it ended, there's just way too much riding on the book now.
If the general fan consensus had been "Please just give us anything, we'll take anything after the ending we just got on television" you'd have a book already.
It's pretty clear his heart wasn't in it any more to begin with. My heart wouldn't be in it any more either, if I'd written nearly 2 million words all on the same subject matter.
It's their own fault of course -- fantasy authors have to be biggerer and betterer and epicer and write the most words across the most books to tell a story that probably could have been resolved in half as much time.

[Anonymous No.22131911]

>>22131905
>My heart wouldn't be in it any more either, if I'd written nearly 2 million words all on the same subject matter.
And yet he's still working on prequel shows? Or is it that the ASOIAF story bores him now, and he's focusing on lore and world building?

[Anonymous No.22131915]

>>22131807
It’s a good example to start writing with an end in mind, not just a beginning.

[Anonymous No.22131929]

>>22131827
> the ending with the graves llike GRRM originally thought
?

[Anonymous No.22131930]

>>22131911
>Or is it that the ASOIAF story bores him now, and he's focusing on lore and world building?
I believe he tacitly said as much in that post-Covid blog post he made.
He lost friends in the pandemic, he's burnt out, and he said he just wanted to work on other stuff. I'm guessing the shows are kind of a compromise.
If you look at the books themselves from that perspective this makes sense too -- each book after the first often having at least one or two subplots that feel like "How can I write about something else within this world to keep myself interested". The series has expanded greatly from its origins in ways that, whilst often interesting, have if anything made it far more difficult to conclude the series. I don't even know if it's possible to cohesively merge all of the mythology elements alone in a way that directly contributes to the ending, never mind everything else.
It's a lame answer, I know, but the dude has spent decades of his life writing the same thing. Money helps but each book has got to be more difficult than the last.

[Anonymous No.22131933]

>>22131807
Thrones didn't end the way GRRM was planning. D and D went head first into their incompetent Jewish fan fiction. GRRM wouldn't be stupid enough to end the Long Night at Winterfell with a single knife thrust, or have Tyrion become a literal brainlet, or have Jaime return to Cersei etc..

So I hope the book ending is better

[Anonymous No.22131938]

>>22131930
>Money helps but each book has got to be more difficult than the last.
I would have thought that he would just say 'fuck it', lock himself in his room for a couple of months and do nothing but write, write, write.
That's all it takes, frankly

[Anonymous No.22131974]

>>22131807
The show was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.22132009]

>>22131807
Turns out fat nihilist perverts aren't good at writing endings. He's already killed the hero, wrote about cock shafts and cunt swamps and betrayal and food. He jerked off enough and now there's no reason to continue.
He will never finish

[Anonymous No.22132148]

>>22131807
He had to rewrite it due to how similar it was to the show's ending.

[Anonymous No.22132227]

>>22132148
It will probably be similar to the show but it will be set up better. Bran will probably be king by the end of it. Rickon will rule the North.

[Anonymous No.22132314]

>>22131933
This. And above all Martin would NEVER turn Daenerys into a villain. The whole point of her character is that she isn't like her father. She's good, but everyone wants to believe she's evil. I think in the books she will be the one to defeat the others.

[Anonymous No.22132338]

>>22132314
No, this will happen in the books as well. What will happen is fAegon will take Kings Landings and basically steal Daenerys’s triumphant Targaryen return. When Daenerys sails to Kings Landing, she will find that the people support and love Aegon (this is what Varys wants). Dany’s dragons will then burn fAegon alive and she will take the throne herself. It will more or less happen like this.

[Anonymous No.22132609]

>>22132338
Bullshit. Daenerys is the heroine of the story with Jon. Most likely Aegon will be a tyrant and Daenerys will save Westeros from him.

[Anonymous No.22132661]

>>22132609
>Most likely Aegon will be a tyrant and Daenerys will save Westeros from him.
Why can't Jon, Aegon and Dany unite as one and restore Targaryen rule and rally all of Westeros against the Others?
It seems to me like this is where George is taking it. Targaryen infighting has been told before.

WOW + DOS will be Jon, Dany, Aegon, Tyrion, Stannis, Theon, Arya, Bran VS Cersei, Lady Stoneheart, Euron and finally the Others.

Screenshot this post

[Anonymous No.22132667]

THE MORE HE ATE

[Anonymous No.22132686]

>>22132338
JonCon will burn KL.

[Anonymous No.22132698]

>>22132661
It does not fit with Dany’s character to simply accept fAegon on the throne and become his concubine. She feels entitled to the throne. She also thinks fAegon is not the real Aegon—and he probably isn’t. He is a ‘mummer’s dragon’. She will 100% have fAegon killed. This has been unofficial canon for over a decade.

[Anonymous No.22132715]

>>22132686
No, because for the storyline to work fArgon needs to be loved by the people. This is why Varys wants him on the throne—he doesn’t care about lineage, just that he is a good king. It doesn’t matter that he’s a Blackfyre, he just needs to serve the realm well.

[Anonymous No.22132737]

>>22132698
>She will 100% have fAegon killed.
Doubt it honestly. Who will be the third head of the dragon if not Aegon? It's not Tyrion; he is definitely Tywin's son

[Anonymous No.22132789]

>>22132737
The three heads of the dragon could mean anything. It could refer to Dany’s three dragons. It could refer to Jon’s three identities: Snow, Stark, and Targaryen. It could refer to the three kingdoms: the North, the Iron Throne, and the Wildings. It could refer to the three Targaryen dynasties: Targaryen, Baratheon, and Blackfyre. Or, maybe it refers to Jon, Dany, and someone who isn’t a Targaryen. I think GRRM even said this but I may be misremembering. The three heads may need to be dragon riders, so Tyrion could ride a dragon—he does show a fascination with them. Point is, prophecies can be misinterpreted and misconstrued.

[Anonymous No.22132791]

>>22132715
The prophecy dictates that a winged beast of stone will burn KL. The winged beast is JonCon, as his family sigil is a Griffin. It is of stone because JonCon has Grayscale.

There is only one character who wishes he burned down a city in the past to win a war and that is JonCon. There is only one character who has PTSD with bells and it is JonCon.

Varys has never cared about the good of the kingdom, that is a show personality.

If Dany's dragon burns KL, explain why the prophecy states the beast will be of stone?

FAegon is a lie that will spread. The lie that JonCon will try to slay by burning down KL is that Aegon is fake. Aegon has the Blackfyre sword and the Golden Company so it is no surprise that this lie could spread. But the twist in the end will be that he was real.

Your fandom headcanons plainly ignore the text, so I don't care what the redditors have to say.

[Anonymous No.22132797]

>>22132737
Azor Jaime. He's the fire. Bran is the ice. Daenerys and Jon are red herrings.

[Anonymous No.22132801]

>>22131823
You should write your own anyway

[Anonymous No.22132835]

>>22132801
>You should write your own anyway
Maybe. I want to play around with the Multiverse idea, because frankly, there are infinite ideas to play with there

[Anonymous No.22132921]

>>22132737
>>22132698

Aegon will wind up with Sansa because their stories mirror one another. They are both victims of Littlefinger, and Varys and once they kill them it will be symbollical for how they can pick and decide their own fate they both represent ice and fire and give birth to the prince that was promised who will usher in peace and prosperity for Westerors. We'll NEVER ever find out Aegon's true parentage or lineage, because he's that much more of a complex, and interesting character. He'd lose all nuance quickly if GRRM came out and said if he's either Targ, or Blackfyre

What I'm interested in is if GRRM has planned more novels past Ice and Fire in Westeros or if once he's finished writing ADOS then he is done with that universe. I think the potential of a Snow sequel show has maybe got GRRM interested in this line of thought what to do after Ice and Fire, ideally, i'd like something set a hundred or one thousand years after the seven books

[Anonymous No.22132943]

>>22132661
Because Aegon is not a Targaryen. Tyrion is the third head of the dragon.

[Anonymous No.22132957]

I think people really believe that George will finally complete WINDS soon based on various evidence, and that may be true, but it is interesting how much disregard he gave to the book in an early 2022 blog post before 180ing due to backlash

>The world of Westeros, the world of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, is my number one priority, and will remain so until the story is told. But Westeros has become bigger than THE WINDS OF WINTER, or even A SONG OF ICE & FIRE. In addition to WINDS, I also need to deliver the second volume of Archmaester Gyldayn’s history, FIRE & BLOOD. (Thinking of calling that one BLOOD & FIRE, rather than just F&B, Vol 2). Got a couple hundred pages of that one written, but there’s still a long way to go. I need to write more of the Dunk & Egg novellas, tell the rest of their stories, especially since there’s a television series about them in development. There’s a lavish coffee table book coming later this year, an illustrated, condensed version of FIRE & BLOOD done with Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson (my partners on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE), and my Fevre River art director, Raya Golden. And another book after that, a Who’s Who in Westeros. And that’s just the books.

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2022/03/09/random-updates-and-bits-o-news/

This reads to me like he doesn't even view ASOIAF as his magnum opus, but the world of ASOIAF itself. It is clear to me he would rather write lore books like Fire and Blood or Dunk and Egg rather than write the main series. It seems like he wishes he could just abandon the main series to write these stories instead (or even just spend his time as a do nothing producer for a tv show), but can't due to fan backlash.

It should be noted that after this George almost does a 180 in future blog posts and constantly talks about how Winds is his most important project at the moment. Either the folks at HBO chewed him out for destroying the hype towards HOTD, or the fan backlash was so strong that he was worried about the harassment he would receive at cons he so loves to attend.

There is good reason to believe that George has gotten a lot of work done since COVID, but at the same time, we can't forget that he has basically said he would rather be doing other things.

[Anonymous No.22132980]

>>22132957
>This reads to me like he doesn't even view ASOIAF as his magnum opus, but the world of ASOIAF itself
Most likely. And it is a compelling world he's built

[Anonymous No.22132991]

>>22132980
I don't disagree, but imagine a world where Tolkien didn't finish Return of the King and instead wrote the silmarillion. I almost like George's world more than the main series myself, but I don't think people will remember George's writings fondly if his main series goes unfinished.

[Anonymous No.22133012]

>>22132791
>The prophecy dictates that a winged beast of stone will burn KL.

No it doesn’t. It just means there will be a greyscale outbreak.

>>22132921
I do like the Tourney at Ashfield theory but ultimately I believe Aegon will end up with Arianne.

[Anonymous No.22133017]

Imagine reading that garbage. I'm glad you're suffering

[Anonymous No.22133023]

>>22131807
He wrote himself into a corner and can't progress the story without major Deus Ex Machinas, implausible ass-pulling to work with that he wrote before but in a way he completely unintended, a time skip, or all of the above.

Even he does manage to swallow his pride and accept to do these lazy literary devices that he probably hates because he likes his literature "complicated", then he has to compromise on the values he set at the beginning.
A grim, dark, and "anyone can die" story in which a messianic archetype invariably rises (either Dany or Jon) and clean up the mess.

The current ASOIAF setting has 40k syndrome. You can't root for anybody, all conflicts are in deadlock, there's too many characters doing parallel stories and most of them aren't progressing at all or progress way too slowly. It's a world that lacks contrast. Everything is too grey and dark, all the hope spots are extinguished. I grew bored of reading it.

>>22132991
Tolkien wrote all three "'books" as a single self-contained story, it got divided due to publishing issues at the time.

[Anonymous No.22133032]

>>22133023
>Tolkien wrote all three "'books" as a single self-contained story, it got divided due to publishing issues at the time.
I know, but you should understand what I mean.

[Anonymous No.22133036]

>>22133023
He needs to keep Jon dead.

[Anonymous No.22133047]

J. G. Keely’s review of the first book was brutal

[Anonymous No.22133060]

"doomerworld" is fine and you absolutely don't need an happy ending at all to make a good book (see for example Children of Hurin). But you need a bit of white in your world, even if it's "tainted-easily-corrupted" white and you need to follow them through

you need to pull the sympathy string of your readers, you need to make them actually feel something (and something else than sadness/rage/frustration when their favourite character dies).

It's just so annoying. Nearly everyone in GoT feels retarded except Tyrion, and he's a pathetic loser dwarf who should've had some character development in the first 3 books and maybe realised that his whore never loved him before.

[Anonymous No.22133077]

>>22133017
>Imagine reading that garbage. I'm glad you're suffering
It's not garbage, it's well-written, richly detailed, compelling and has great characters. It's one of the most engaging fantasy worlds because of its realism. It isn't drowning in magic and sorcery.

GRRM has almost perfected Fantasy in my opinion

[Anonymous No.22133089]

>>22133047
>There are a set of manboobs (which perhaps Martin has some personal experience with) but not until book five
Come on that's just rude

[Anonymous No.22133091]

>>22133036
>He needs to keep Jon dead.
That was never going to happen

[Anonymous No.22133103]

>>22133091
Surely it wasn't the initial plan, but he should realize it's the best thing to do with the story he has now. He should also just be Ned's bastard. The whole thing about being a secret prince is corny as fuck.

[Anonymous No.22133113]

>>22133036
>keeps Jon dead
>yet another interesting character which we had from the start goes away
>leaving Bran the cripple
>Dany "Sunset found her squatting in the grass"
>Tyrion the self-loathing drunkard
>Arya who hasn't progressed a single bit since she left Westeros
>Sansa who's a fucking annoying bitch who hasn't evolved as a character at all

>resurrects Jon
>goes against his own logic and writing philosophy by pulling a Gandalf

[Anonymous No.22133131]

Not only will the Jon POV chapters likely stop after his resurrection, but he will get a personality transplant, he will become more regal. Cold and ruthless.

I don’t even know how the story would unfold if he keeps Jon dead. Stannis wank?

[Anonymous No.22133141]

>>22132921
>Aegon will wind up with Sansa because their stories mirror one another. They are both victims of Littlefinger, and Varys and once they kill them it will be symbollical for how they can pick and decide their own fate they both represent ice and fire and give birth to the prince that was promised who will usher in peace and prosperity for Westerors
Wow, literally the first time I see someone have the exact same idea as me. Pretty neat even if I don't agree with the rest. But yeah, it would be funny if everyone focused on Dany and Jon while the other two accidentally end up fulfilling the prophecy. Their storylines are the only reason I regret GRRM will never finish the books.

[Anonymous No.22133174]

>>22132921
>Aegon will wind up with Sansa
Also, there is a character in fire and blood who was set to be married with people from all the houses Sansa has almost been with (in the same order too), but ended up in the end marrying a Targaryan.

[Anonymous No.22133181]

>>22133141
see>>22133174
I agree with you guys on this.

[Anonymous No.22133186]

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1459299

he had me until he called Tolkien racist
wtf

[Anonymous No.22133189]

>>22131930
He has a gigantic free resource in fan theories posted online to pick and choose from at his discretion, seeing call backs and other things even he didn't quite appreciate at the time of writing. He's miffed at being shotcalled by someone(s) out there and insists on 'originality' rather than rolling with it to maximize the dramatization. Thus it will never be satisfactory to anyone. Probably has some hamfisted designs to shunt in current year political allegory after 2016 on top of that as well.

[Anonymous No.22133215]

>>22133174
>Also, there is a character in fire and blood who was set to be married with people from all the houses Sansa has almost been with (in the same order too), but ended up in the end marrying a Targaryan.

You sure that refers to Aegon? It could refer to Jon…

[Anonymous No.22133246]

>>22133215

>You sure that refers to Aegon? It could refer to Jon…

Jon is a Dayne, good sir. And he will inherit Dawn and become the new Sword ot the Morning.

>>22133174
>>22133141

I never thought of the Ashford theory while writing it out but it fits and gives even more credibility to Sansa and Aegon winding up with one another.

[Anonymous No.22133261]

>>22131807
Friendly reminder he recently said Winds of Winter is 75% done, meaning we're at minimum 3 years away from it's release, which means he's on pace for 18 - 20 years before A Dream of Spring is done

[Anonymous No.22133270]

>>22133189
>Probably has some hamfisted designs to shunt in current year political allegory after 2016 on top of that as well
He has openly said Euron is even worse than Trump, but only Euron.

[Anonymous No.22133276]

>>22133113
The only character the story needs to be engaging is Jaime. Everyone else can die.

[Anonymous No.22133278]

>they publish a lazy shithead like grrm
>won't publish me even when i work like a nigger 2k a day
everyone who works in publishing should be executed. take every agent, every editor, every c suite of every publishing house, and kill them all.

[Anonymous No.22133288]

The thing that bothers me about the Dance is that the Riverlands army basically solos the rest of Westeros while its economy is basically destroyed by Aemond with Vaegar (who spends like an entire year of the dance burning the riverlands). Why not let the Vale or the North win some battles for the Blacks? I can't help but feel that the history regarding these battles is supposed to be false(because its a history book), or George is just a shitty writer.

[Anonymous No.22133300]

Victarian is basically the nimwit in those bell curve memes where the nimwit agrees with the high IQ individual and the midwit disagrees.

[Anonymous No.22133309]

>>22133246
>Jon is a Dayne, good sir. And he will inherit Dawn and become the new Sword ot the Morning.

How do you still retain that belief after the show?

[Anonymous No.22133314]

>>22133276
I enjoyed the Jaime characters somewhat but the dude went from sisterfucking total nihilist who pushes children out of windows to a knight in sour armour way too fast
The sympathy that he gets from the narration feels forced

[Anonymous No.22133337]

>>22133278
/lit/ needs to start its own publishing house. No gimmicky bullshit like F. Gardner allowed though.

[Anonymous No.22133343]

>>22133309
Because Jon being a secret Targ is such a dogshit twist that I don't think Martin could go for it.

[Anonymous No.22133349]

>>22133343
Honestly, I am pretty sure that George was considering making Tyrion was a secret Targ for the first book (and maybe even the second), but he abandoned it quickly thereafter. I don't think he would abandon making Jon a secret Targ though considering so much story and foreshadowing has been dedicated to this aspect.

[Anonymous No.22133358]

>>22132835
like a universe where you're not a faggot

[Anonymous No.22133359]

>>22133309
Apparently the prevailing belief amongst N + A = J enjoyers is that in the show Jon and fAegon’s arc was combined into one for the show. So in the books it will be different.

[Anonymous No.22133411]

>>22131905
I don't believe this at all. The problem is a lack of care factor and motivation, I believe he could care less about the ending of GoT. In fact, it feels like total false outrate from the fan base, anyway. There is no doubt it ended in the worst way possible, but it was a week long meme at most and the zeitgeist moved on. We have HOTD now and everyone loves that. GRRM is not under any personal pressure to redeem the story. He simply doesn't give a fuck.
>>22131933
I also agree with this, anyway. D&D were suffering a similar lack of motivation and care factor. They were signing future contracts for SW films and wrapping up seasons faster and faster. They were done with the show. And they weren't adversarial with GRRM at all, so it was simple for them to say fuck it, go full fan fiction, and create some shitty ending for the series. I don't believe it apes or reflects the true ending of ASOIAF at all. GRRM has an ongoing and existing relationship with HBO. They have been very good for each other. Being at the stage we are now, I don't believe they would mandate at all that the show MUST spoil the ending and in fact HBO have a hard-on for making their own version of the story and would have gladly done so.

[Anonymous No.22133424]

>>22133358
>like a universe where you're not a faggot
Mate, I could transform you into paste if I wanted to. Don’t argue with folk on the internet. Do something useful

[Anonymous No.22134281]

>>22133077
I like the series but it's not realist (and i'm not talking about the map size or the languages)

[Anonymous No.22134361]

>>22131823
Hahahahahaha
Loser

[Anonymous No.22134429]

>>22131807
>WTF is GROOMER doing??
Who gives a shit.

[Anonymous No.22134569]

The copium for DoS coming out is that if he can actually get WoW done, that would mean he has sorted out the narrative strands and can actually set up an ending. DoS would then just be writing out that ending, which would make it probably the easiest book to write, because everything is in place for the home stretch. I am inhaling this copium deeply.

[Anonymous No.22134622]

>>22131807
>WTF is GRRM doing

Jacking off to Blood and Fire Queen Alysanne pictures

[Anonymous No.22134671]

>>22134569
The thing is that there are so many things that need to happen in the story that I really don't even think it is possible to fit the rest in two books. He needs 3 imo.

[Anonymous No.22134700]

>>22131817
He'd rather be famous for making people wait than finish the series and become a has-been like J K Rowling.

[Anonymous No.22134802]

>>22131807
He's written himself into a corner and the only way out is to prove Tolkien was right.

[Anonymous No.22134810]

>>22134802
That post is way too bitter and resentful to have any merit. There might be a reasonable critique of progressivism if the anon had been more thoughtful, but instead it's just obviously seething because of how invested the anon had become in the work and how frustrated he is that it won't be properly finished. Also, being overly concerned with other "coomers" dying and going to hell is a signal of just that weakness in the speaker, or in other words, "the anon doth protest too much"

[Anonymous No.22134814]

>>22134810
There is a point to be made, but yes, you're right, screaming about coomers and "BRAINLETS" does weaken the point significantly.

[Anonymous No.22134818]

>>22131807
>*teleports behind your keyboard*
>*finishes your books for you*
>"heh, nothing personal kiddo."

[Anonymous No.22134822]

>>22133246
I never even knew about the Ashford theory, I just thought it would be neat after I noticed how much their stories paralleled each other.

[Anonymous No.22134823]

>>22134802
Whenever I see these sorts of Tolkien vs Martin posts, I wonder if the author of the post has read either.

[Anonymous No.22134844]

>>22134569
The true copium is that he is releasing them both at the same time. He is finishing DoS now.

[Anonymous No.22134857]

Saying that the series has gotten too complex and lengthy is a big cope.
Robert Jordan anticipated that WoT would get really really long (which it did) and he planned ahead by writing out autistic notes and outlines for the story so that he wouldn't spend 10+ years writing the next book.

[Anonymous No.22134870]

>>22134814
It's a shame because I'm actually interested in the connection between what we might refer to as Martin's progressivism and his inability to finish the series. Although the statement that Martin "doesn't believe in truth or beauty" is a little too convenient and I can almost guarantee Martin would not agree to that formulation. It's probably true that Martin doesn't want to conclude on a heroic note because he does eschew that type of sentimentality, but why not a kind of bittersweet tragedy? I think that would be in his wheelhouse and imply a kind of pathos that he likes. What do you think?

[Anonymous No.22134879]

>>22134870
Where did people get the idea Martin doesn't believe in heroism and virtue? All he shows is that they are not necessarily rewarded with success - which is undeniably true in reality, but I don't see how that diminishes their value.

[Anonymous No.22134899]

>>22131807
fat, lazy bastard. No respect for men that can’t do basic exercise. You could do 10 minutes a day and be in ok shape. everyone has 10 minutes.

[Anonymous No.22134903]

>>22134810
>>22134814
But they are coomer books. And coomers are brainlets. Ergo, Martin is a brainlet. The logic is sound.
And the post didn't say coomers go to hell. It implied rather that brainlets go to hell. It does follow from this that coomers go to hell: however not qua coomers, but rather qua brainlets. This seems fair enough.
The only problem I see with this is that neither coomers nor brainlets possess eternal souls. The poster gave them—and therefore Martin—too much credit.

[Anonymous No.22134904]

>>22134879
I think its a reductionist view of the fact that Martin doesn't like simplistic heroes, I'm fairly certain he has spoken publicly about his dislike of the heroic as a trope, favoring more complex outcomes like what you reference.

[Anonymous No.22134932]

>>22134870
I think he already said the ending would be bittersweet, which fits the story, but is probably less subversive these days than doing a full good or bad ending.

[Anonymous No.22134934]

>>22134802
This is the exact same shit in that YouTube video ‘Why the Lord of the Rings will be REMEMBERED and Game of Thrones FORGOTTEN’. It’s a sentiment that comes from quasi-religious people, who haven’t read widely or broadly, who think LOTR is the greatest thing ever written. Thing is, despite its ‘universal Christian themes’ I have never once heard someone express interest in LOTR outside of forums. In the few times I instigate the conservation they say it’s boring and is just a lot of walking. I don’t know why they think LOTR is more popular than it is, perhaps they just really want it to be,

[Anonymous No.22134942]

>>22131807
>not even one mention of cleganebowl
It's over. It's been over for years. The fans have simply moved on with their lives.

[Anonymous No.22134954]

>>22134802
don't be a prude, there's nothing wrong with actual sex and actual romance in a book as opposed to the ultra long distance relationship(s) of LOTR/Legendarium which feels cringe and unnatural. The problem with GOT sex isn't that it's sex, it is that it's bad sex. Dany getting raped by a Khal Drogo is just bad. It's all rape or quasi-rape and there's no chemistry to it.

He does write himself into a corner because everything SOMETHING interesting is about to happen, something that would actually move the plot forward, the character driving it dies, everything goes up in smoke, and then you have a few chapters about dealing with the fallout rather, and then up to the next wanna-be resolver. Just for example:
>Ned: "I will go in the North and find the true heir and I will -ACK"
>Robb: "I will avenge my father and fight for freedom in the North and -ACK"
>Oberyn: "I will fight for the dwarf and get my sister avenged and -ACK"
>Tywin: "Finally I will bring some order to the Kingdom and ---ACK"
>Kevan: "Oh shit my time as a wingman has ended now it's time to -ACK"

And on and on it goes. It's just for shock value at this point and it makes it difficult to actually follow what's happening.

>>22134904
If GoT was an experiment into forgetting that you're writing a story and that everything you write (or chose not to write) is ultimately intentional and should serve a higher purpose in the story, it failed. It's not "complex", it's confusing. The complexity should come from the analysis of what's left unsaid, not from multiple diverging plot lines that will go nowhere for most of them.

[Anonymous No.22135451]

Perhaps GRRM should've stuck with the trilogy format. It's understandable that he is tired working on the same series after so many years. He can't introduce any new material to entertain himself at this point, he has to tie all the loose ends - which a menial, not a creative task. Let that be a warning for future writers, a tight series of a limited scope is better than a sprawling unfinished narrative.

[Anonymous No.22135463]

>>22134954
Why is sex appropriate to write about but not sexual violence? Especially when he is writing about a backwards feudal society.

[Anonymous No.22135508]

>>22135451
He literally can’t stop writing ASOIAF material though, it’s all he does

[Anonymous No.22135516]

>>22135508
I think he is under contracts etc.

[Anonymous No.22135521]

Why don’t authors of these whopping fantasy epics have studios of apprentices helping them like manga and comic book artists? Let the apprentices crank out the background details (i.e. side character chapters) following your outline, give it a once over, send it off.

[Anonymous No.22135597]

>>22131807
Hopefully the fat hack dies so all u faggots either kill urselves or fuck off back to r*ddit.

[Anonymous No.22135775]

>>22135463
sexual violence is fine if it's on topic and appropriate
when EVERY WOMAN is threatened with rape and when half of the sex scene are rape scenes, often gratuitous and not meant to prove anything other than "this guy is evil" it's not for gritty realism, it's just GRRM's fetishes

[Anonymous No.22135780]

>>22135521
some do (the Dragonlance universe for example has plenty of authors and the OG writers openly encourage them), but most of them consider it Art and as such want to have total control

[Anonymous No.22135855]

>>22134954
>the character driving it dies, everything goes up in smoke, and then you have a few chapters about dealing with the fallout rather, and then up to the next wanna-be resolver
Thats pretty realistic tho

[Anonymous No.22135869]

>>22135775
And every character is threatened with murder. It's a natural extension of the brutal character of the setting, violence being pervasive in all aspects of life.

[Anonymous No.22135926]

>>22135855
First you're writing a novel, things have to tell a story and make sense in that story
Second, truth is stranger than fiction grum doesn't make his world "realistic" he makes it boring, confusing, and ultimately predicable

[Anonymous No.22136000]

>>22135775
Is this even true though? Have Cersei, Catelyn, Dany, Margaery, Melisandre, Asha, etc. been threatened with rape?

[Anonymous No.22136020]

>>22136000
One of Dany's very early scenes is her getting raped by Khal Drogo in front of the tribe whilst she's canonically, what? 14, 15?
So yeah that's pretty grim. In fact that's partly why the sex is bad; it's kinda disgusting and doesn't serve too much point besides shock value

[Anonymous No.22136028]

>>22136000
>Cersei
yeah
>Dany
>yeah
It's not just rape, there's also sexual humiliation.

[Anonymous No.22136030]

>>22136000
>>22136028
Oh and Melisandre was a slave and would rather not remember those times. Margaery was accused of adultery, right? We know how that would end. The only ones I can't remember about are Cat and Asha.

[Anonymous No.22136037]

>>22136020
ah no she's 13
yeah that detail shocked me on the first read

[Anonymous No.22136045]

seriously all the romantico-sexual stuff surrounding Danearys is super cringe

ser Jorah the Cuck, the entire relationship with Khal Drogo, the mercenary fuckboy, it's all nauseating and an example of very, very bad sex

[Anonymous No.22136053]

>>22136045
The funniest part to me is that in the first book she's described as a skinny insecure 13-year old but then you've got men twice or three times her age totally willing to rail her skinny ass and undeveloped tits. At least 12-year old Sansa, who also has men twice or thrice her age slobbering over her, is supposed to look older than her age.This is getting worse the more I write.

[Anonymous No.22136066]

>>22136053
But it's gritty and realistic
Oh God I just remember the Sansa/Tyrion wedding night, this is so awful, the description of Tyrion's penis, the entire sexual humiliation that is the wedding night, the fact that Tyrion is described positively and you're supposed to sympathise with it for not rapping a child who lost her dad not 2 years prior and has been living with zero friends in a foreign place the entire time
It's all so bad, I remember being absolutely fed up with Sansa's chapters and skipping most of them, I remember why now

[Anonymous No.22136149]

while we have a ASOIAF, here's my issue with the Starks

[Anonymous No.22136150]

>>22136066
>But it's gritty and realistic

It actually isn’t. There are very few instances of a minor having to have sex after being betrothed at a young age (amongst royalty). The one example I can think of is Henry Tudor’s mother falling pregnant at 13, but that was during the Hundred Years War and it was essential so that the Tudors could claim the throne. She couldn’t bear any more children after giving birth though. Usually the marriage is only consummated when puberty is finished beyond all doubt. It is literally just GRRM being a pervert. You could very easy have no sex in the books and very little would change. But GRRM, being a fat sexually frustrated nerd has to live vicariously through his characters. It’s always why there are constant long food descriptions.

[Anonymous No.22136159]

>>22136150
Pretty sure anon was being sarcastic.

[Anonymous No.22136174]

>>22136149
Decent post.

[Anonymous No.22136189]

>>22136149
Interesting point BUT the Starks are what someone who doesn't know Tolkien's histories too well would drop in the world of ASOIAF. Each of the main dynasties in the Legendarium has been divided and turned against itself and done stupid shit. The Starks feel like someone took only the survivors we meet in LOTR and applied the wisdom and skills they learnt over thousands of years of wars, death and betrayals. Although I could have sworn I've seen people say the Starks used to be quite brutal in the past. Hell, Brandon and Lyanna were very different from Ned.

[Anonymous No.22136238]

>>22136149
As the other anon says Tolkien's legendarium is a bit shattered and a lot of the gaps are only given passing mentions, but dynasties in LOTR aren't "pure good". Isiuldur is textbook corrupted; the Numenorean line gets corrupted and destroyed by Sauron, the Elves had three instances of kin-slaying; we only get the impression that everyone is good and wise because the main story is told by the end of the Third Age when 90% of the bad Elves already went to the Immortal Lands

The Starks are just... badly written, they keep dropping the idiot ball for the plot to progress

[Anonymous No.22136304]

if the summers and winters are lasting years, how do they eat?
do the plants and animals have several cycles during the summer, requiring immense logistics to farm, stockpile, and distribute the food come winter (which would make any serious conflict a death sentence for nearly all civilisation save a few hunters)? or do they have a breed of wheat that grows in the winter, negating much of the tension that comes from war?

What do hibernating species do in the ASOIAF universe?
How does the Stark house collect taxes and enforce uniformity of laws in an area the size of European Russia? It's technically possible, but the challenges of it are never addressed in the book.

Why is there no real linguistic differences across Westeros?
Why is the Faith of the Seven seemingly so uniform across time and space, with little heresy, deviation, and regional variations?

When the Targaryens conquered Westeros, did they impose feudalism or was it something already existing that they adapted to? If the latter, why is it seemingly so uniform across such a vast area?

[Anonymous No.22136408]

>>22134954
>it's bad sex
Cringe. There's nothing wrong with rape.

[Anonymous No.22136458]

>>22136408
depicting the rape of a 13 yo girl who then grows to be the child queen and has a ton of orbiters is kinda gross
it's also not really necessary for the story to advance
felt pornographic (in a bad way), forced, and fetish-y

[Anonymous No.22136577]

>>22136458
Have sex

[Anonymous No.22136582]

>>22136577
i do, with cute twinks who are over 18 and consent to it

[Anonymous No.22136597]

>>22131807
> I wanna see
You’re not gonna. Have you learned nothing yet? You get a big lead-up to the battle and then we cut to a different POV and then a while later some POV comes back to say “oh wow that battle was epic wasn’t it did you SEE those krakens woah”. GURM uses the literary equivalent of a cheap TV show cutting away from expensive scenes.

[Anonymous No.22136603]

>>22136053
> twice or three times her age totally willing to rail her skinny ass and undeveloped tits
Yeah haha that’s crazy no way would that happen in real life.

[Anonymous No.22136665]

>>22132314
>think in the books she will
There will be no books.

[Anonymous No.22136954]

>>22136603
Not every random man is a pedo, George.

[Anonymous No.22136968]

>>22131807
I read the whole series and don't even remember what happened it's been so long.

[Anonymous No.22137004]

>>22132314
>good
>evil
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.22137016]

>>22132314
Which one are you, anon?

[Anonymous No.22137027]

>>22132801
Because if there's one thing the world needs, it's more undifferentiated generic fantasy slop written by semi-literate hacks.

[Anonymous No.22137034]

>>22133077
>it's well-written

[Anonymous No.22137064]

>>22137016
I would violently make love to the girl in the middle if you know what I mean

[Anonymous No.22137189]

>>22133077
>well-written
SUNSET FOUND HER SQUATTING IN THE GRASS
>richly detailed, realism
not once do they explicitly address how they grow food in winter. They talk about 5 years storage (the logistics of that would be immense) and glass-houses (which is almost at an industrial revolution level of tech)
>compelling
It was interesting and enough to draw me the first 2-3 books, then it became a mess of unrelated parallel plotlines that go nowhere
>has great characters
The only interesting one is Stannis and he's going to die anyway. Martin's characters barely seem to develop. Ned lives and dies a noble retard. Cait never learns to love Jon or at least forgive him. Sansa never learns to think for herself and is still boring 5 books in. The only "exceptions" are Jaime and that's completely sudden, a bit awkward, and leaves the dilemma of the character unresolved, and Dany.

GRRM doesn't really seem to write an actual story, but a fictionalised and stylised version of the Wars of the Roses, but in which half the protagonists die midway before anything interesting happens.

[Anonymous No.22137212]

>>22137189
>SUNSET FOUND HER SQUATTING IN THE GRASS
Excuse me, I found that paragraph very arousing anon

[Anonymous No.22137238]

>>22137189
>well-written
My favourite is "No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade."
It's in the first chapter of the first book. There may be even bigger howlers later on, but I'm fucked if I'm going to read any more of that dogshit.

[Anonymous No.22137265]

>>22137238
her cunt became the world

[Anonymous No.22137286]

>>22131823
You better start writing then because it's guaranteed that he will die before finishing.
I also just masturbated onto the keyboard as I type this, casting a tantric sex spell binding you to the promise you just made. If you don't write your own series you will be fucked in the asshole by niggers for eternity.

[Anonymous No.22137288]

>>22136020
Every sex scene between Dany and Khal Drogo was consensual. You sure you actually read the books? The rape thing is from the show, not the books.

[Anonymous No.22137289]

>>22131888
I've never heard that but it's been 14 fucking years so he could have said literally anything in that time.
I'm too tired to care anymore.
The writers for the show may have been fucking terrible at creating original content, but man does my sympathy for them continue to grow as time goes on.

[Anonymous No.22137290]

>>22137288
a grown man having sex with a 13 yo girl cannot be consensual

[Anonymous No.22137295]

>>22137289
i'm pretty sure the books will follow the shows in broad strokes, at least as far as Bran becoming King, Jon resurrecting, and Dany being evil
those are telegraphed

[Anonymous No.22137301]

>>22131807
Elden Ring 2 when?

[Anonymous No.22137315]

>>22137290
I hate how this has become a prole talking point in the past couple of years. You people are unbelievably stupid.

[Anonymous No.22137347]

>>22131888

[Anonymous No.22137418]

>>22131930
>covid excuse
If he didn't burn out well before covid came, he'd finish this series by now. He just doesn't give a fuck about it. First three books were mild success, sold well, and were written in four years. They're the best of them all by a large margin. Then the fame came, and he started to slack off, going on conferences, fucking whores, interacting with fans on the interwebs; quality went down, delays went up. Then even more fame came, and he really stopped giving a fuck about writing. Fame, Hollywood, money, even better whores...
>>22137289
I'm confident I read it as well. It was on his webpage years ago. Read it while I still gave a fuck for this series. Mind you that was before the tv show even aired. His initial plan was to do a considerable time skip after either A Fiest, or A Dance, can't quite remember which. Then he dumped that, naming inability to fit all the happenings into summaries, so he decided on a lengthy continuous tale.

[Anonymous No.22137421]

>>22136458
>>22136582
You're such an insufferable redditor lmao

[Anonymous No.22137425]

>>22131807
KEK it is over. The old fart is going to die before this shit ends.

[Anonymous No.22137447]

>>22131807
Yea ive given up and now consider Preston Jacobs fanfiction as canon.

[Anonymous No.22137486]

>>22132314
65 iq take

[Anonymous No.22137494]

>>22137447
Suicide may be preferable.

[Anonymous No.22137603]

I am purposefully going to read these just so I can suffer the inconclusion.
How smart am I? Haven't watched the show btw. The most I know about it is probably from the South Park Black Friday Trilogy and Emilia Clark's ass.

[Anonymous No.22137628]

>>22137603
You won't care by time you're through with them. First one is actually very good. Then he goes for shock therapy of killing half the characters almost randomly, but you get the gist of plot armour guys and galls. That makes second and third, decent, but the last two are just trash. Nonsensical plot twists of them will fed you off for good. Never watched the show myself, but I'd say that following what was written, was true downfall of it.

[Anonymous No.22137743]

He's like 70 something and HBO has given him more than enough money for retirement. He is not going through the effort of writing and finishing some shitty fantasy novel when he could be enjoying the last few years of his life.

[Anonymous No.22138286]

>>22133036
This is a D&D-tier retard decision based purely on the fact that you want the most unexpected outcome regardless of how much sense it makes within the story. I hope if the next book ever comes out that you never read it so I can be spared the miniscule risk of actually hearing your shit opinions on it.

[Anonymous No.22138294]

>>22133113
IIRC his problem with the Gandalf resurrection was that it had no consequences for Gandalf.
We've already seen from Lady Stoneheart and Beric Dondarrion that he's fine with resurrection in concept, he just needs it to have serious repurcussions.
Which is why everyone with a brain expects a resurrected Jon to be a very different and much darker character.
Another funny detail from the show is that they really did treat the resurrection as a strings-free get out of jail free card.

[Anonymous No.22138315]

>>22135775
One of the few cogent critiques of the ASOIAF series is that while rape and sexual imbalance is represented widely in the story and setting, it is EXCLUSIVELY heterosexual.
If George were truly writing a realist pseudo-historical fantasy story, there would be tons of man-on-man rape and sexual violence as well in the midst of all of these wars and atrocities.
And take The Wall - a bunch of criminals put together at the edge of the world and sworn to never lay with a woman. We know they break that vow at the Moletown brothel, but even still you expect at least a noticeable amount of man-on-man sexual impropriety. It's basically a prison where the men are armed and given ranks, and we already know how prevalent male-on-male rape is in real life prisons.

George isn't really able to put himself in the mindset of the true depravity of wars and historical conflict, so his attempts at depicting realism in all of its dirtiness fall short.

I still like the series though.

[Anonymous No.22138319]

>>22138294
GRRM does know that Gandalf is an immortal spirit and that he was affected in a different way and that his death had more consequences for his mortal companions because that was the point, right? wrong

[Anonymous No.22138320]

>>22136053
For Danny she at least looks exotic and the majority of her suitors want her for her dragons; she's basically just the trophy wife that's attached to them.

I remember that the series was intended to have a timeskip and this would have justified what George had in mind for Sansa (and to an extent Dany), but very quickly after the first book he realised that with all of the plotlines running simultaneously it was going to be impossible to skip forward like 5 years keeping everyone in relative stasis.
Making most of his protagonists so young is one of his biggest regrets, and means we're all just stuck with 13-year-old sex goddess and assassins and warlords.

[Anonymous No.22138323]

>>22138319
Yes but like everyone else, not when he first read the trilogy in his teens.

[Anonymous No.22138336]

>>22135521
Honestly would be a great idea. The answer is that it's simply not the industry standard; there's no precedent or system set up to facilitate it.
A lot of the appeal of authorship is in having (near-)complete creative control over what you pump out. This has downsides, but it's why things are the way they are and why it's not likely to change.

[Anonymous No.22138349]

>>22137418
>Mind you that was before the tv show even aired.
Then that included Dance. I don't blame you guys for not remembering that the TV show actually started before the fifth book released, as it really has been an unacceptable amount of time. It's why the writers never expected to create original content; the plan was for GRRM to finish the book series well before the show finishes. And why those two were hired when they only have talent for adapting material that others have written first.
So the three books required at that time were Dance, Winds, and then Dream. Which is why everyone is still just expecting the two more books.
But I'm sure if George has made any progress at all in the past decade (unlikely) he's quickly realising that he can't fit everything into just two more books and reach a proper conclusion, which only adds to his procrastination.

[Anonymous No.22138355]

>>22137421
and you're a nonce pedo

[Anonymous No.22138363]

>>22138315
nah it's not that he's not able it's that it's not his fetish
i don't like the realism argument being used so often

[Anonymous No.22138412]

>>22138319
I'm glad someone said it better than my idiot brain would have spent a half baked 2 paragraph post on.

[Anonymous No.22139029]

If GRRM just made the story about Jon, no other POV characters, it probably would of challenged LOTR. Would of been a similar length too.

[Anonymous No.22139125]

>>22131817
I predict his notes will be passed down to someone upon his death and some book will come out of that

[Anonymous No.22139163]

>>22138319
Of course not, it's actually fascinating to observe GRRM's observations of Tolkien and see everything from the perspective of somebody who is spiritually void

[Anonymous No.22139177]

>>22137315
Don’t mix up radlib rhetoric with ‘proles’, faggot.

[Anonymous No.22139194]

>>22139029
>would of
WOULD'VE YOU FUCKING IDIOT ZOOMER NIGGER
"WOULD OF" DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE

[Anonymous No.22139523]

>>22133309

There's a lot of symbolism pointing towards Jon being Azor Ahai and potentially weilding Dawn who with Bran's help will probably usher in peace and summer triumphing over the cold and dark death of winter. It feels like Jon being Rhaegar and Ellia's feels too obvious it may as well be a redherring at this point.

>>22133359

I can see a lot of Jon's scenes in ADOS being stuff with Aegon before he winds up with Sansa. I don't even think Jon and Daenerys will even meet. I do think Tyrion will be the one to kill Daenerys, it won't be Jon like in the show, but with Tyrion murdering her he will stop it to stop her from doing something stupid maybe going mad and he makes one last attempt to save Westeros then exiles himself to the wall. I think one of his last chapters will be Tyrion gazing out at the far north while having another piss before going back to doing NW duties. That's if Tyrion doesn't get Casterly Rock but I think his story in the end will mirror Jaime's more

[Anonymous No.22139612]

I don't think gurm has the cojones to publish the long awaited Jon Arya sister incest sex scene anymore, he probably still faps to it tho

Should be interesting when he dies and his manuscripts get inevitably leaked

[Anonymous No.22139623]

>>22139523
>Jon being Rhaegar and Ellia's
I was very confused until I realised you meant Lyanna.

[Anonymous No.22139703]

>>22139029
Better yet keep it to just Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, and maybe Bran (his value to the plot has yet to be established).
George was a prolific short fiction writer for decades before ASOIAF caught on, and you can really see how sticky the impulse to jump around to different characters' heads and subplots can be for those kinds of writers.
George simply isn't built for long-form series writing, and rather than ASOIAF feeling like an anthology of great self-contained stories overlapping and intermingling, it feels like a overbloated tangled web of unfinished stories going nowhere.

[Anonymous No.22139708]

>>22139623
>he doesn't know

[Anonymous No.22139757]

>>22131807
Once Tad Williams is done with The Last King of Osten Ard this November, GRRM will have an idea of how to end Winds, and he'll ape it for all its worth

[Anonymous No.22139762]

>>22139703
What purpose does Arya serve besides being GRRM's wife's favourite

[Anonymous No.22139769]

>>22139762
a third dose of girlboss child Mary Sue after Sansa and Dany, oh and lore/fluff dump about the Free Cities

[Anonymous No.22139784]

>>22139762
Much like Bran it's TBD but I think most importantly for my suggestion of paring things down, she's the closest POV the war in the Riverlands which is still pretty important. Arya finding out about the Red Wedding just outside of the camp, while not firsthand, is very different from the readers only hearing about it from the POV of Jon and Tyrion who are half a world away.

>>22139769
Sansa is definitely superfluous and if Germ was capable of going deep into single characters, everything about her mindset and role in the story could be delivered to us through Tyrion's POV. Her entire time in the Vale with Petyr can thus far be adequately summarized as "Sansa has gone missing and we believe Baelish has fled home to the Vale."
Arya's time in the Free Cities is clearly leading up to SOMETHING but thus far yeah is just a fluff plotline right now.

[Anonymous No.22139787]

>>22139708
Tell me more

[Anonymous No.22139792]

>>22139769
>girlboss child mary sue
>Sansa
She's still an empty headed child with no agency more than halfway through the series, I think she's literally just in the story to make Arya and Dany look good by comparison

[Anonymous No.22139795]

>>22139792
probably. or to give us some insight into the EPIC Littlefinger (he so based and dark) plotline thread or to make the world more gritty by throwing the entire kitchen sink of bad stuff at her.

[Anonymous No.22139803]

>>22139792
It's ironic that Sansa('s position) is more realistic than whatever happens to Dany and Arya.

[Anonymous No.22139937]

>>22139803
"realism" is such a fucking dumb way to write a story
GRUM is trying to put us right in the middle of a fictionalised War of the Roses but in the middle of which everyone dies as soon as they're about to do something interesting, there's no hindsight reconstruction of events so it feels disjointed and disorganised, it's gratuitously cruel in a way that medieval wars weren't.

oh and it's an Europe-sized pseudo-federal Kingdom with uniform vasselage and peasantry laws (except maybe for, like, Dorne and the Iron Isles), 3 cities and no theocracies as independent powers (no theocracies is half-explained, 3 major cities is a disgrace)

it's a copy of England and Wales down with the two waves of invaders (Andals/Angles-Saxons [bravo Martin], Rhonyar/French Normans), its own William/Aegon the Conqueror, its own wall, but that's missing the Magna Carta, missing the client-patron relationship at the heart of vasselage (instead depicting as laughably evil predatory from the top, and ridiculously scheming from the bottom), its own War of the Roses (except more confusing and boring).

its just the surface level pastiche of late-medieval England, in which everyone is laughably evil and/or incompetent and the peasants/cities/church have no agency against tyrannical warlords.

[Anonymous No.22139971]

Game of Thrones also isn’t the best experience reread. You are rereading it for the characters that make it to the end, and the characters who die unexpectedly for shock value just become hassles. Their arcs become hurdles you need to jump.

[Anonymous No.22139993]

>>22134810

Lol Martin is a coomer, cope brother.

I Howveer do Not think Martin has bold takes on literature. I think he stumbled into a high tech soap opera and the zeitgeist wanted it. There was no plan and no artistic statement beyond soap and his commentary on Tolkien was big head he got from the big praise after the hbo show went off

[Anonymous No.22140001]

>>22139971
I haven't bothered rereading but I really expect this to hold true.
Meanwhile I can reread LotR endlessly because the scenes really are portraying a timeless beauty, and the executions of plotlines are always satisfying to see play out.

[Anonymous No.22140010]

>>22139993
Why was he compared to Tolkien anyway? They're completely different, the only thing they have in common is the genre. Did whoever call him the American Tolkien just decide to pick the first big name that came to mind?

[Anonymous No.22140041]

>>22140010
iirc he has compared his approach to Tolkien a few times in the past. He does not explicitly says his way of doing things is better, but he points out that he thinks there are some flaws in LOTR narrative (Aragorn's taxes and Gandalf coming back are explicitly said, the black-and-white morality is more implied), but those are both very weak points imo

[Anonymous No.22140050]

>>22140010
They're both just giant names in the fantasy genre and noticeably different in their approach to storytelling. Martin himself hasn't helped this by comparing himself to/against Tolkein in interviews, but to be fair those are overblown and he is always using it a rhetorical device to explain how his thought process works, and how it was formed reading fantasy growing up.
I find that the majority of discussion which hinges on the comparison between the two is just low-IQ shit flinging, but it's not an entirely worthless comparison.

[Anonymous No.22140341]

>>22132980
No, it's a compelling STORY. The world itself is total bullshit. It's a hackjob world.

>Westeros speaks only one language, despite being home to five distinct ethnic groups. Andals invaded, and it looks like the primary change in social structures was the addition of knights. Rhoynar invaded, and it looks like the primary change in social structures was that having affairs and bastards is cool in Dorne now.

>Human geography is a complete crapshoot. Westeros is the size of South America, and it has canonically only five cities. Each major region should be anchored by at least one major city, with larger regions (the North, the Reach) having multiple.

>The Timeline is a total mess. It has chunks of legendary events every so often... And empty blocks of thousands of years between, where nothing happened. You mean to tell me that First Men culture didn't change at all in the ~4,000 years between the Long Night and the Andal Invasion?

>Religions exist only to push plot, be spooky, or show us how terrible and awful organized religion is. I can think of only one example of a major heresy or new religious movement in Westerosi history, being the time someone tried to merge the Drowned God and Seven. Again, you have five ethnic groups... And four of those worship all the same gods, with only one of them bothering to syncretize with their old ones?

>Essos is even worse. It's a big continent, dominated by only a handful of cities. Each of the 'Free Cities' should straight up be an Early Modern European-style nation-state at this point. Also, the Free Cities feel vaguely cultural... But for the life of me, I can't actually describe that culture in any meaningful way! I guess it's "post-Valyrian," but what the hell does that mean?

It's a terribly-built world, and that's great. It doesn't need to have good worldbuilding, because Martin is obviously just building a stage for his characters. This is especially evident in the timeline; Those empty stretches of time stop as soon as the Targaryens conquer Westeros... Because that's where the events which actually matter to the characters get started.

[Anonymous No.22140364]

>>22140341
>compelling STORY
that goes absolutely nowhere as time progresses with a lot of unrelated plotlines, all waiting

[Anonymous No.22140371]

>>22140341
>It's a terribly-built world, and that's great. It doesn't need to have good worldbuilding,

[Anonymous No.22140395]

>>22140371
You don't need to build an entire house to put on a stage-play, and you don't need to build an entire world to tell a good fantasy yarn. These past few years have seen fantasy fags become completely obsessed with world-building. I personally love world-building and have been doing it for my entire life as a hobby... But it's getting fucking annoying to find these fantasy stories where the author thinks the WORLD is somehow more important than the actual plot, or the characters.

These faggots then get invested in a well-told story, but since they're so hopped up on world-building, they think that because they like it, the world MUST be good. Nothing could be further from the truth. The world is dogshit, and that's okay.

>>22140364
Eh, ymmv. I don't have a huge issue with anything that's happened thus far, except for Jon being killed. Bone-headed move, imo.

[Anonymous No.22140484]

>>22140010
GRRM used to shitpost about Tolkien A LOT in his blogs. He's original, Aragon's tax policy shitposter. Just google that up, if you believe me. Muricans and his fans took him seriously. And Tolkien fans rage about it ever since.

[Anonymous No.22140493]

Waiting

[Anonymous No.22140520]

>>22140371
"World building" is a faggot zoomer word used only to praise awful book series with little to no literary merit. I cant comment on Martin's "world building" since I only read the first book, but this anon is absolutely right in saying "world building" does not matter. You know what doesnt have "world building?" Great self contained stories that explore characters and themes. The Odyssey doesnt have world building. Don Quixote doesnt have world building.

Fuck world building. No. I dont give a shit that you designed a gay map of your fantasy world. No. I dont care how your weather system differs to Earth's. No. I dont care about what happened 500 years before any of the characters were born. It's not impressive or interesting. Fuck world building.

[Anonymous No.22140549]

>>22140395
I agree with you that worldbuilding isn't important, but you're certainly wrong that GRRM intentionally wrote is as he did. He put a lot of effort into his world. He expanded on Tolkien in medieval realism, with guilds, knights, and families, but I think that he went way overboard, by adding new and new countries to the mix, without expanding on the old ones. There's no point in Dathraki, no point in slaves, no point in Tyrel, Martel, if you just introduce them in a few chapters, make them a force, then leave them for all for dead, ignored. He does the same with his characters, he keeps introducing new ones, then he either kills old ones, or sidelines them completely, saying that's realism, that's how things are in real life. Well, he's wrong. There were bigger than life figures in history, they were smarter, more charismatic, luckier than the rest.

[Anonymous No.22140554]

>>22139769
Sansa is actually a pretty good character in books. She is described as naive girl next door who slowly transforms into down-to-earth ruthless ruler. Meanwhile TV series Sansa is a trash who moves from retarded teenage girl into most girlbossy girlboss you ever seen with no explanation

[Anonymous No.22140577]

>>22140554
Sansa isn't and won't be ruthless.

[Anonymous No.22140592]

>>22131807
Let's say that GRRM died tomorrow, and that in his will, he asks Gene Wolf, a literary idol of his, to finish the series based on outlines he has left behind. Pretending that Gene Wolf is still alive and is willing to undertake this feat, how does it turn out?

[Anonymous No.22141090]

>>22140592
Better than what George would have put out.

[Anonymous No.22141094]

>>22140592
I doubt Gene read his novels, so It'd be a pass.

[Anonymous No.22141130]

He's on strike lmao

[Anonymous No.22141180]

>>22141130
How convenient for him.

[Anonymous No.22141203]

>>22131807
He will never. He has money, fame, and he had time to build up years of anxiety. "What if it's lame? what if I'm not in the mood anymore? what if I don't have the creative juice anymore?" -- and he'd probably be right. Can't be worse than the series scenario but still.

Plus he's obese and reaks, like this Rothfuss bitch. None of them will ever deliver. You're stuck with soulless sanderson books.

[Anonymous No.22141217]

>>22131841
I am convinced that you do not read books.

[Anonymous No.22141222]

>>22134802
it could absolutely be a dying earth epic
>long winters are actually the sun flickering
>white walkers take over the whole fucking westeros
>20 years long ellipse
>winter is ending
>very few survivors hiding here and there, everybody fucked off to essos
>the last stand to reconquer westeros and end the white walkers but the stakes changed
I dunno man

[Anonymous No.22141224]

>>22131888
What happened to keeping writing short, to-the-point, and practical? This is what happens when you indulge in fantasy. Fantasy has no end.

[Anonymous No.22141255]

>>22136149
We only see Ned and his children though. Ned was a good man and a good father so his children are good people too. What's unreasonable about that? Especially in an honour-bound society like the north.
We hear about other Stark's being more flawed. Even Ned in his youth with the bad influence of Robert was somewhat worse.

[Anonymous No.22141285]

>>22140341
The North and the Reach do have more than one major city each. Also remember that the world population in general isn't very large.
The timeline thing is because it's from unreliable sources, which is meant to evoke the medieval feel.
Fair enough on the religions but GRRM is an atheist hippie and also the story wants to explore pragmatic politics more than theology. The religions are really a front for magic in ASOIAF. Just like real life
The free cities aren't as strong as they could be because they constantly get raided by the dothraki. Think how Russia stayed backwards because it kept getting raided by mongols etc.

[Anonymous No.22141305]

>>22133186
This is the worst review I can remember reading.

[Anonymous No.22141333]

>>22141130
Man, look at the things surrounding him.
On the left you have a woman who thinks her hair is a political party all on it's own and on the right is a man who can't remember what anything other than bug burgers taste like.

[Anonymous No.22141355]

>>22131807
Has any game that has stuck on dev hell for so long been good? no, it never is.
I fear the same thing will happen here.
Unless Martin constantly writes a linear story, like Henry Danger, this book had already all the opportunities to become bloated and be plagued with over worked prose.
I will wait and see if it gets out but this long to write the damn book fills my heart with fear rather.

[Anonymous No.22141365]

>>22131826
My man aint over working itself to death like Miura did, he has a looot of time

[Anonymous No.22141392]

>>22141355
I fear you're right but many books have taken a long time to write and been good. Off the top of my head the greatest translation of Zarathustra took 20 years. Also that last guardian game was alright.

[Anonymous No.22141410]

He enjoyed writing for video games so much that he's going to dedicate himself to that for a while. His next project will be adding fantasy elements to Half Life 3, and after that's out he will return to ASOIAF.

[Anonymous No.22141440]

>>22141355
You make a good point about games.
I thought I could name one but I can't.
However this might sound retarded but games can go wrong for a lot of reasons. The words you wrote for a book are still... there, though. You'll never have to put them on a new engine for a new console.

They hype train can absolutely kill something though, like No Man's Sky. Oh and No Man's Sky! I would consider that a sort of development hell and it clawed it's way out.

[Anonymous No.22141873]

He never untied the Mereenese knot, probably killed a character off that he's now realized is essential, and doesn't really enjoy writing it anymore. He'd rather write for television, but if he must write prose he'd prefer sci-fi (which is fair as his sci-fi is good).

[Anonymous No.22141880]

I checked out of these books way back in like 2014. I knew even then there would be no new books, at least not anytime soon at that moment in time.

[Anonymous No.22142387]

>>22140395
Attention to world-building is one of the defining elements of the Fantasy genre. Without it, you get fairy tales and myths. Supernatural elements existed in storytelling long before fantasy was a genre.

[Anonymous No.22142499]

>>22134818
Based sanderson

[Anonymous No.22142940]

>>22131826
We got an ending, though. He told Dumb & Dumber how the story ends and they replicated it in seasons 7-8. Fans hated it, but that's how George Rape Rape Martin intends the story to end, in broad strokes.

[Anonymous No.22143205]

>>22141203
>soulless sanderson books
That hits home. Tried reading the first book way of kings, and holy fuck I just can't. Gave up halfway. Like reading a robot-made book. If you make a world, make it interesting.

Also, women are meant to do the logic? Fucking top lmao

[Anonymous No.22143256]

>>22143205
I read all stormlight archive and tried a couple other series but it's always the same soulless action, uninteresting love interests, unconvincing stakes and risks etc
even the gods and magic props are uninteresting

can't believe I'm saying this but reread harry potter or something before you start a fantasy book

[Anonymous No.22143268]

>>22143256
+3500 pages in all you get is
>muh swords have souls
>there's a wind god but he's jaded (?)
>turtle men are influenced by the music they sing
ok but make it shorter

[Anonymous No.22143286]

>>22143205
fuck off nigger, way of kings is a great world, it even has unique giant crustaceans and new races like the singers, magical power armor and blades that burn people's eyes out and spren up the ass

you can say oathbreaker onwards is sanderson doing what he always does, explaining everything about his world and magic to the point where you are bored and feel no mistique about it and everyone has a special cool magical gimmick or a quip, but dont say way of kings is not the very best sanderson can come up with

fucker

[Anonymous No.22143296]

>>22143286
it's shit
>muh running with wooden bridges on your back for 1600 pages

[Anonymous No.22143312]

>>22143296
my point is its the most polished book (and probably world) that sanderson can come up with

try reading his other shit like the colour magic world or mistborn, now THATS fucking young adult pop garbage

[Anonymous No.22143320]

>>22143312
still managed to raise 35M$ or sthg in preorders
what's our excuse

[Anonymous No.22143325]

>>22143320
I know my excuse I'm not a writer and will never be one

[Anonymous No.22143338]

Should the estate of GRRM hire this man to finish the series once he dies? He saved The Wheel of Time, what's next for Sanderson? I can easily see him finishing even WoW using the notes left behind.

[Anonymous No.22143343]

>>22143296
>running with wooden bridges on your back for 1600 pages
but this was actually kino. it was everything after that that fell short.

[Anonymous No.22143351]

also the thing about sanderson is he does have great ideeas hes just a dogshit writer

he thinks of geniunely cool moments and concepts but he writes according to a formula of explaining every part of his magical system like an annoying autist trying to tell you about his secret language that he invented in school or something

I didnt bother reading his latest Stormlight Archives but I did read the wikipedia and yes there are like 2-3 moments that are cool

I suspect he thinks of a world, first maybe he thinks of a cool moment and writes a story to get there

in way of kings there were cool moments, and every book had them, but his characters are awful, unfunny, annoying

yes it was cool to read in the wikipedia that the main bad god is killed and replaced by another guy who was a side character that is a geniunely cool concept

[Anonymous No.22143359]

>>22143338
>Should the estate of GRRM hire this man to finish the series once he dies?
fuck yes. at least we'd get an ending

[Anonymous No.22143367]

>>22143351
>I suspect he thinks of a world, first maybe he thinks of a cool moment and writes a story to get there
He's said he will come up with ideas then connect them with a story. He's talked about his process where his beta readers identify things that aren't working and then he'll pivot and change things around. He's the OPPOSITE of a writer who clings to characters and plot points that he falls in love with. If he gets too much negative feedback during the writing/editing process he will remove/create whole arcs.

It's both a blessing and a curse.

[Anonymous No.22143369]

>>22143338
I'm the guy defending Stormlight Archives world as it being sandersons best

I STILL haven't read the ending of wheel of time series, I just dont think he has the ability to do it justice, and he had lots and lots of notes from robert jordan

for GURRM I think he would be even more unsuited to the task

maybe one day I will read the ending to wheel of time and I hope I will have underestimated him, but jordan got greedy and wrote entire books of filler and died like a stupid fuck instead of cementing himself as a legendary fantasy writer with a complete awesome, if flawed, epic fantasy series

[Anonymous No.22143381]

>>22143369
>maybe one day I will read the ending to wheel of time
I couldn't get past book 2 of TWOT. I really enjoyed book 1 as a very LOTR inspired fantasy journey but book 2 I think I read 100 pages and the lads were STILL in the castle. how many times does that witch save them and they still don't trust her? Drives me nuts I tell ya.

[Anonymous No.22143439]

>>22143381
wheel of time really picks up once you get to the chapter where they blow the horn, thats when the series really got interesting to me

they start to split up and do their own thing

[Anonymous No.22143444]

>>22143381

its been years actually since I tried the books but

definitely try just skipping to book 3

the best part of wheel of time is when it starts to explore the A'iel stuff and starting with book 3 I believe they are all split up and doing unique arks

but like books 7-9 or something like that are so much fucking filler

[Anonymous No.22143447]

>>22143286
>fmagical power armor and blades that burn people's eyes out and spren up the ass
Yeah, that's the cool part. But it's dressed and surrounded by the most bland and uninteresting and stupid shit imaginable. Protip: Magic doesn't have to be explained to be interesting. Especially not in this autistic way as he does it. Boring prose, mid imagination, off in the bin it goes.
>>22143256
Agree with every point you made. Lmao I even started reading HP as well, just to clean my palate and even that is better.

Also: It's women's place to do logic and math. Fucking really?

[Anonymous No.22143452]

>>22143320
It's because the NPC cattle worships what ever they're told to worship.

[Anonymous No.22143458]

>>22143359
We would get 50 books in its universe. good? bad? yes.

[Anonymous No.22143629]

Another symbolism I noticed in connection with possibly Aegon and Sansa winding up together is that Sansa's hair is reddish/auburn which are Targaryen colours depicted on their dragon on their family crest and Aegon's hair colour is white which is also associated with the Stark family crest on their background behind the wolf.

I wonder if Sansa and Tyrion will somehow scheme together to remove Cersei from power while Tyrion potentially tries to control both the north and Casterly Rock through Sansa if they do remove all the potential heirs and Cersei

[Anonymous No.22143638]

>>22143629

White is also associated with winter, the cold, and death, etc. Just want to throw that out there too drawing an even further connection to Sansa and Aegon

[Anonymous No.22143647]

>>22143629
My favourite piece of random connection that might have not even been originally intended by GRRM is that Aegon's got a Dunk homage as his guard while Sansa's got Dunk's actual descendant looking for her.

[Anonymous No.22143759]

>>22142387
This, I think one of the defining features of the fantasy genre is the fact that it places importance on worldbuilding. This doesn't mean every fantasy story has to place the same amount of focus on the world, but they all to greater or lesser degrees treat the worlds as characters to be gradually explored and given unique traits.

[Anonymous No.22143796]

>>22140577
I think Sansa will inherit Harrenhal

[Anonymous No.22144603]

>>22132957
I genuinely believe that. I think George forces himself to work on Winds because going public that it's not a priority to him anymore would destroy his whole estate and any project he might get involved due to the fan backslash. I'm certain that he's being advised on this.
I think the people waiting for Winds with certainty (that we will get at least this one) are fooling themselves.

[Anonymous No.22144796]

>>22131826
AI can finish it

[Anonymous No.22145065]

>>22136149
>>22136189
I think this is somewhat missing the point of the Starks to be desu. In my opinion the idea here is that the Starks only matter to the smallfolk of the North because they are consistently decent, honourable and protective lords. The King who Knelt is the ultimate display of this, the only King on the entire continent who looked at what was going on and decided to kneel to spare his people the red sword of Aegon the Conqueror. The idea that the smallfolk and petty landed knights don't care only applies in the South where the houses are genuinely all interchangeable. The point here is that when you make yourself not interchangeable then people do start to care. There's not some magic goodness, it's just the social contract between lord and peasant actually being fulfilled. The Starks exist outside of the Game of Thrones and that's why they're allowed to be noble. They're not in it for themselves. Even elements of their aesthetic as simple as their house words display this. They are not 'Ours is the fury' or 'Hear me roar.' The Stark words do not centre the house at all because the Winter and the people who must live through it do not care who rules. The name Stark should be viewed as a title meaning man who keeps the peace in the North. The line has outright gone extinct at various points in the past but somehow the name keeps getting passed down, because the people will just name the next good man a Stark.

[Anonymous No.22145267]

Why do people never mention how Tolkien subverted the fantasy genre better and in a more meaningful way than GRRM did? Scouring of the Shire played with fantasy and chivalry tropes while not just trying to be edgy or gutpunch the reader. Literally the perfect ending to the series.

[Anonymous No.22145303]

>>22131930
I think the fat fuck being more interested in the political intrigue that in the apocalyptic climate change makes for a good complement for the story itself as in the end it was just a thinly veiled metaphor for politics getting in the way of fighting global warming

[Anonymous No.22145401]

If you need tided over, this series is as good as ASOIAF and comparable, right down to the missing final book. It's unique in its own right too.

[Anonymous No.22145428]

>>22132835
>Multiverse idea
why is this stupid fucking idea so prevalent these days? It was never a good idea to begin with yet it's fucking everywhere and only continues to grow
I'm so tired of it

[Anonymous No.22145973]

>>22145267
But what was Sauron tax policy?

[Anonymous No.22146045]

>>22145267
Because most people think modern fantasy started with Tolkien

[Anonymous No.22146235]

>>22145428
>these days
A lot of people grew up with Marvel movies.

[Anonymous No.22146346]

>>22145973
slave-driven economy with big farms around the Sea of Nurnen

[Anonymous No.22146382]

>>22139194
neither does 'would have' if you think about it

[Anonymous No.22146417]

>>22131807
He was banking off Elden Ring

[Anonymous No.22147678]

>>22138315
That's why berserk peak,
It had the balls to show Boys love between Nuts and black wizard

[Anonymous No.22147692]

>>22146045
I think most people seethe at Tolkien because he set the bar to high for the medieval fantasy genre.

[Anonymous No.22147830]

>>22145065
Finally, someone who gets it.

[Anonymous No.22148004]

>>22145267
People who like Tolkein just don't care as much about genre subversion, so they don't bring it up. Just not a particularly interesting point compared to other things you could talk about.

[Anonymous No.22148196]

>>22131807
>And Winds needs to be a fucking masterpiece.
The series last good book was A Storm of Swords - published 23 years ago. I wouldn’t hold my breath for the next ones, Martin fucked everything up when he had a change of mind and abandoned the timeskip. Just read “The North Remembers” and pretend that’s the final book.
>>22133261
The good ol’ Miura arithmetics.
>>22137418
The timeskip was gonna happen after Storm. That book ends with Jon becoming lord commander, Sam deciding to become a Maester, Sansa escaping with Baelish, Dany becoming a ruler of a foreign city, Tyrion leaving Westeros, Stannis conquering the support of the norther lords, Cersei becoming queen regent and Arya going to the Assassin’s Creed school or whatever. Then next book he decided to continue right from where it stopped and we have stupid shit like Jon being lord commander for less than a year before getting killed, Cersei and Dany managing to completely fuck everything up during the same amount of time and Samwell barely learning anything at White Harbour while Arya becomes a pshh nothing personnel assassin instantaneously.

[Anonymous No.22148301]

>>22131817
>the book is never coming out
Not under GRRM's name that's for sure though I wonder who'd take up the mantle after his death that isn't Brandon Sanderson.

[Anonymous No.22148404]

>>22131807
tvshow was both a blessing and a curse, hope he saved and invested that initial booksale money, benioff and weiss "i got mine" and bounced did our boy george dirty

[Anonymous No.22149637]

>>22141365
Miura died from the covid vaccine, not from overworking.

[Anonymous No.22150054]

Maybe he's just depressed

[Anonymous No.22150812]

>>22150054
Suffering from success.

[Anonymous No.22150818]

>>22149637
Two more weeks

[Anonymous No.22150846]

>>22148196
>Arya becomes a pshh nothing personnel assassin instantaneously.
I don't remember her performing anything that special in the books. You're confusing it with the show, no?

[Anonymous No.22150852]

>>22131807
>genreslop retards seething
Beautiful