/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22093469]

Are there any good books against the idea of nationalism?

[Anonymous No.22093473]

you are pro nationalism though

[Anonymous No.22093474]

Gravity’s Rainbow

[Anonymous No.22093475]

>>22093469
The Bible

[Anonymous No.22093492]

>>22093469
Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

[Anonymous No.22093517]

>>22093469
Ye olde monocled tophatted castledwelling capitalist hmmyess.

[Anonymous No.22093540]

>>22093469
Gutenberg Galaxy

[Anonymous No.22093564]

>>22093469
The scary thing about that image is that it perfectly encapsulates what leftoids actually think nationalism is.

[Anonymous No.22093569]

>>22093469
Benedict Anderson - Imagined Communities

[Anonymous No.22093598]

Yes, just read anything funded by the Koch brothers.

[Anonymous No.22093610]

>>22093469
No, not really

[Anonymous No.22093618]

>>22093469
none

[Anonymous No.22093629]

>>22093469
Any YA book.

>>22093564
That's literally what nationalism is.

[Anonymous No.22093631]

>Nationalism? That's outrageous and evil, everyone is the same!
>No please don't open the borders unilaterally, that would destroy our society with crime, depressed wages, and strained social programs!
Which is it?

[Anonymous No.22093659]

>>22093469
maybe. but they probably define it overly particular creating a myopic point.
If you acknowledging the obvious that shared self reenforcing cultural norms and practices creates groupings and how that procedurally makes distinctions between subdivisions, its kinda moot. unless you try to relabel shit in order to play word games.

[Anonymous No.22093667]

>>22093469
>tfw you realize nationalism is fundamentally rooted in the notion of private property
Every inch away from nationalism is towards marxism.

[Anonymous No.22093678]

>>22093564
Normally this would be an unreasonable statement because left and right distinctions are generally useless since most people are ignorant retarded proles, but it's clearly true that the vast majority of westerners are leftists today, thus earning this statement a kind of value and merit.

[Anonymous No.22093679]

>>22093629
> That's literally what nationalism is
no it isnt. it can be leveraged for that, like anything else, but thats not what it is.

[Anonymous No.22093681]

>>22093469
I think Al Gore and Jeb Bush
have probably written a few.

Faggot OP.

[Anonymous No.22093691]

>>22093469
Leftoids actually think the only reason tribalism exists is muh capitalist pigs

[Anonymous No.22093710]

>>22093691
It's interesting how Marx's belief in this was based on brutal, uncompromising, chauvinistic European supremacist rationalism and scientism, while the modern leftoid's belief in it is based on quasi-anarchistic free love (Marx hated anarchists and free love hippies; many anarchists hated free love hippies).

Marx only thought that appeals to the nation would be made by a desperate bourgeoisie, not the the nation was some inherently perennially silly concept that had to be deconstructed (while everything else about capitalism, like your cushy university job) has to be left intact so as not to shake things up too much or hurt anybody. We can and must dissolve all national borders IMMEDIATELY thought. That won't cause any chaos from which capitalists could benefit or which they could exploit and shape to their own ends.

It's just amazing how astroturfed the modern left is. It's not just that it takes the most feckless tendencies of 19th century historic leftism and focuses on them, it's actually a contradictory medley of things that people like Marx would find insane and nonsensical.

[Anonymous No.22093717]

>>22093517
Shut up anon there was never disagreement between capitalists and landlords you're being silly.

[Anonymous No.22093718]

>>22093667
Thats retarded. a grouping based on shared cultural beliefs and constituencies is something iregardless of private property. besides, wasnt the modern sort of nationalism akimbo with a lot of marxist movements.in the 1800s?

[Anonymous No.22093729]

>>22093598
Did Bernie suddenly get Koch funding?

[Anonymous No.22093745]

>>22093679
That's literally how nationalism emerged, well at least how it is defined by most people, but I respect it if you have your own specific definition.

[Anonymous No.22093747]

>>22093469
>>22093681
The World is Flat by Thomas L. Friedman.
The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century is a book by Thomas L. Friedman that analyzes globalization, primarily in the early 21st century. The title is a metaphor for viewing the world as a level playing field in terms of commerce, wherein all competitors, except for labor, have an equal opportunity. As the first edition cover illustration indicates, the title also alludes to the perceptual shift required for countries, companies, and individuals to remain competitive in a global market in which historical and geographic divisions are, according to the author, becoming increasingly irrelevant.

Quit being a faggots, OP.
Air being easily led by FBI, NSA hobgoblins out to divide the proletariat masses.
Faggot OP is a faggots.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-globalization_movement

[Anonymous No.22093761]

None Dare Call it Conspiracy, Gary Allen
The Naked Capitalist, W. Cleon Skousen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfNMtWN2lCc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnY3nBzkG0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3NA17CCboA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li2m3rvsO0I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thLgkQBFTPw

[Anonymous No.22093769]

Possessor of an odel, or enjoying a feud, the Arian Germain shows himself to us equally foreign in the municipal sense of the Slavic, the Celt and the Roman. The lofty idea of his personal value, the taste for isolation which follows from it, absolutely dominate his thought and inspire his institutions. The spirit of association cannot therefore be familiar to him. He knows how to escape it even in military life; for with him this organization is only the effect of a contract made between each soldier and the general, apart from the other members of the army. Very stingy with his rights and his prerogatives, he never abandons them, not even the smallest plot; and if he agrees to restrict, to suspend the use of it, it is because he finds in this temporary concession a direct, actual, and very obvious advantage. He has his eyes wide open to his interests. Finally, perpetually preoccupied with his personality and with what directly relates to it, he is not materially patriotic, and does not feel a passion for the sky, the soil, the place where he was born. He attaches himself to the beings he has always known, and does so with love and fidelity; but in things, point, and he changes province and climate without difficulty. This is one of the keys to the character of chivalry in the Middle Ages and the reason for the indifference with which the Anglo-Saxon of America, while loving his country, easily leaves his native country, and, in the same way, sells or exchanges the land he received from his father.

[Anonymous No.22093770]

>>22093469
>NATIONALISM is just like this cartoon, guise!
>Quick, let's flood the country with cheap labor and then complain that too many people are moving to Portland!
>Let's spend billions on America World Police Imperialist defense of Ukraine while tens of thousands can no longer afford rent and are being forced into the streets!

[Anonymous No.22093772]

>>22093469
jewish supremacism by david duke

[Anonymous No.22093776]

>>22093469
Nationalism arose because of the rise of republics and a need a conceptualize what a state is for. The state was obviously no longer the organ for exercising power of some king or family, so what is it to be then? Oh, that's right, it is the organ of the /people/ who live in the lands it claims. The earlier understanding was of course much more honest. The leftist notion that a state could possibly be the apparatus of the wage-earning classes is similarly fallacious and much much more so in fact.

[Anonymous No.22093777]

https://thirdworldtraveler.com/Banks/Tragedy_Hope_excerpt.html

The significant influence of "Wall Street" ... both in the Ivy League and in Washington, in the period of sixty or more years following 1880, explains the constant interchange between the Ivy League and the Federal government

Pg. 938: Because of its dominant position in Wall Street, the Morgan firm came also to dominate other Wal1 Street powers, such as Carnegie, Whitney, Vanderbilt, Brown-Harriman, or Dillon-Reed. Close alliances were made with Rockefeller, Mellon, and Duke interests but not nearly so intimate ones with the great industrial powers like du Pont and Ford. [Because] ... of the great influence of this "Wall Street" alignment, an influence great enough to merit the name of the "American Establishment," this group could ... control the Federal government and, in consequence, had to adjust to a good many government actions ... [which they had secretly supported ]. The chief of these were in taxation law, beginning with the graduated income tax in 1913, but culminating, above all else, in the inheritance tax. These tax laws drove the great private fortunes dominated by Wall Street into tax-exempt foundations, which became a major link in the Establishment network between Wall Street, the Ivy League, and the Federal government.

More than fifty years ago the Morgan firm decided to infiltrate the Left-wing political movements in the United States. This was relatively easy to do, since these groups were starved for funds and eager for a voice to reach the people. Wall Street supplied both. The purpose was not to destroy ... or take over but was really threefold: (1) to keep informed about the thinking of Left-wing or liberal groups; (2) to provide them with a mouthpiece so that they could "blow off steam," and (3) to have a final veto on their publicity and possibly on their actions, if they ever went "radical." There was nothing really new about this decision, since other financiers had talked about it and even attempted it earlier.

Pg. 939: The New Republic was founded by Willard and Dorothy Straight, using her money, in 1914, and continued to be supported by her financial contributions until March 23, 1953. The original purpose for establishing the paper was to provide an outlet for the progressive Left and to guide it quietly in an Anglophile direction. This latter task was entrusted to a young man, only four years out of Harvard, but already a member of the mysterious Round Table group, which has played a major role in directing England's foreign policy since its formal establishment in 1909. This new recruit, Walter Lippmann, has been, from 1914 to the present, the authentic spokesman in American journalism for the Establishments on both sides of the Atlantic in international affairs.

[Anonymous No.22093792]

>>22093717
That is NOT what playing Victoria 3 has taught me okay.

[Anonymous No.22093866]

>>22093710
its oddly a fetishization of reactionism. that exceptions to rules are the thing to be preoccupied with, rather than their rightful use to caveat general applicability. “There is general applicability to x, but it can be utilized inappropriately in y”
where irony itself becomes the object rather than a tool for further clarification on an abstract.

[Anonymous No.22093889]

>>22093718
low iq

[Anonymous No.22093921]

>>22093889
didnt say anything exlusionatory. it can be intertwined with private property, just not necessarily. it didnt just spring up from a vaccuum from one man wanting not to share his toy. bit more multifaceted then that.

[Anonymous No.22094152]

>>22093469
>The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

[Anonymous No.22094230]

>>22094152
Nationalism doesn't necessarily thrive on a feeling of national pride. What do the eternally beaten Irish - whose achievements are buoyed not by the ethnic Irish but by members of the Anglo-Saxon Protestant Ascendancy such as Boyle, Hamilton, Shaw, Wilde etc. - have to be proud of? Yet Irish Nationalism Nationalism by no means paradoxical since it's sustained by a feeling that they're sufficiently different from the British to warrant having their own state.

[Anonymous No.22094301]

>>22094152
>quotes le ebin contrarian incel
Be honest anon, if Schopenhauer wasn't German or if Germany wasn't distinctly nationalistic he'd do a perfect 180 if it meant spiting those who spurned him.

[Anonymous No.22094363]

Humans are inherently tribalistic animals, pride of being connected or contributing to a group is the only thing that keeps socialization healthy, even if people reject nationalism, they just turn to religion, race, politics or retarded cultural movements to find acceptance

[Anonymous No.22094374]

>>22093469
The humorous narration of the Thackeray novel often times intentionally pokes fun at patriotism and exuberant militarism (the threat generally accredited to a French invasion). This is played quite well in the film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7wEUlpaYjY

[Anonymous No.22094667]

>>22093678
That image is racist.

[Anonymous No.22094708]

>>22094152
>let me tell you why deep civic ties between people are useless and in fact stupid while ensconced in a system built from this and whose overwhelming prosperity permits to reject reality without consequence
>you should learn from me
weird retard flex but ok

[Anonymous No.22094796]

>>22093681
I'd post a few pictures of "physically secured" women, but this is a blue board.

[Anonymous No.22094813]

Nationalism is about dissolving the differences between people within a nation
Go look at the history of nationalism in Europe, it's all about genocide

[Anonymous No.22094817]

>>22093469
Nationalism is for those who want to be part of a herd

[Anonymous No.22094827]

>>22093469
Pic related is why I am for Nationalist Socialism.

[Anonymous No.22094831]

>>22093469
Your pic is why I am only for Nationalism with Socialism.

[Anonymous No.22094850]

>>22094667
>symbolic of the state of living in the country of your ancestors under neoliberal immigration policies
It's accurate and I can tell you the white guy can't afford a house and the immigrants are living in subsidized municiple apartments @1/5 the market rent off screen (the monetary policy providing this also means the overall growth of the white guy's savings is being diminished year after year and he won't be able to leave anything for the kids he can't have because it takes 20 years to become minimally economically stable after graduating and that's without the great recession and COVID-flation (both times money was redirected mostly to the upper-middle class with gimmies to the underclass he was too "rich" to receive)

[Anonymous No.22094867]

>>22094831
Third positionism was the destiny and entelechy of the European race. Our failure to defeat 19th century industrial-financial capitalism and its Bolshevik golem (really a sad, twisted perversion and corruption of third positionism itself) is the 20th century's "turning point at which we failed to turn."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vow1qFOTmEw

[Anonymous No.22094889]

>>22094850
Good post, worth reading with this in mind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

https://web.archive.org/web/20060928023136/http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/2005/April2005/0405Francis.html

So what is to be done?

[Anonymous No.22094901]

>>22094850
Sounds like some white guys need to be more financially responsible or get a better job. I can’t understand this “the west is falling” mindset. To me, it seems like an individual’s problem. I am a straight white guy, aka one of the ones that chuds try to tell that he’s oppressed. I come from a solidly middle class, maybe slightly upper middle class household, didn’t do particularly well in school because of depression, but I came into my own eventually, worked hard, networked, and have a good job now. I’ve never had any issue getting girls, and have a girlfriend half moved into my apartment at the moment. My apartment is nice and in a desirable location. I have plenty of friends and none of them have these “fallen west” issues. The anons who beat their drum over this topic seem entitled IMO. They don’t want to work or change to get a job, gf, friends or place of their own. Instead they go the other way, end up hating those things as a way to cope I suppose. These anons would benefit a lot from reading Nietzsche’s resentment and taking it to heart

[Anonymous No.22094927]

>>22094901
>With the us economy performing so very badly, as it has been doing for such an extended period, the bipartisan political establishment and its leading policymakers have come to the stark conclusion, consciously or unconsciously, that the only way that they can assure the reproduction of the non-financial and financial corporations, their top managers and shareholders—and indeed top leaders of the major parties, closely connected with them—is to intervene politically in the asset markets and throughout the whole economy, so as to underwrite the upward re-distribution of wealth to them by directly political means. This is, indeed, what Congress and the Fed have accomplished with their large-scale and extended corporate bailout in the face of plunging production, employment and profits. The politically driven upward redistribution of wealth to sustain central elements of a partially transformed dominant capitalist class, as the response to a seemingly inexorable process of economic deterioration, has been at the heart of the politico-economic evolution which has brought us to this point. What we have had for a long epoch is worsening economic decline met by intensifying political predation.
https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii123/articles/robert-brenner-escalating-plunder

The economy is basically mercantilism and corporate welfare for an inept kleptocracy that can't even maintain basic infrastructure.

[Anonymous No.22094930]

>>22094901
>I come from a solidly middle class, maybe slightly upper middle class household
You're out of touch and insulated, retard.

[Anonymous No.22094934]

>>22094901
>commie turns into a libertarian the moment someone starts critiquing the government
Like fucking clockwork.

[Anonymous No.22094982]

>>22094930
I’ve had my downs that were lower than most people’s. I’ve couch surfed and been homeless before.
>>22094934
I give zero fucks about the government one way or another. My issue is with doomers who don’t even try

[Anonymous No.22095034]

>>22094982

[Anonymous No.22095088]

>>22093469
Stalin's Marxism and the National Question of course.

[Anonymous No.22095178]

>>22095088
I prefer Lenin myself:
>the recognition of the right of the nations oppressed by tsarism to free secession from Russia is absolutely obligatory for Social-Democracy in the interests of its democratic and socialist tasks.

>Victorious socialism must achieve complete democracy and, consequently, not only bring about the complete equality of nations, but also give effect to the right of oppressed nations to self-determination, i.e., the right to free political secession. Socialist Parties which fail to prove by all their activities now, as well as during the revolution and after its victory, that they will free the enslaved nations and establish relations with them on the basis of a free union and a free union is a lying phrase without right to secession—such parties would be committing treachery to socialism.

>Just as mankind can achieve the abolition of classes only by passing through the transition period of the dictatorship of the oppressed class, so mankind can achieve the inevitable merging of nations only by passing through the transition period of complete liberation of all the oppressed nations, i.e., their freedom to secede.

>The proletariat cannot but fight against the forcible retention of the oppressed nations within the boundaries of a given state, and this is exactly what the struggle for the right of self-determination means. The proletariat must demand the right of political secession for the colonies and for the nations that “its own” nation oppresses. Unless it does this, proletarian internationalism will remain a meaningless phrase; mutual confidence and class solidarity between the workers of the oppressing and oppressed nations will be impossible; the hypocrisy of the reformist and Kautskyan advocates of self-determination who maintain silence about the nations which are oppressed by “their” nation and forcibly retained within “their” state will remain unexposed.

>No democrat, let alone a socialist, will venture to deny the complete legitimacy of the Ukraine’s demands. And no democrat can deny the Ukraine’s right to freely secede from Russia. Only unqualified recognition of this right makes it possible to advocate a free union of the Ukrainians and the Great Russians, a voluntary association of the two peoples in one state. Only unqualified recognition of this right can actually break completely and irrevocably with the accursed tsarist past, when everything was done to bring about a mutual estrangement of the two peoples so close to each other in language, territory, character and history. Accursed tsarism made the Great Russians executioners of the Ukrainian people, and fomented in them a hatred for those who even forbade Ukrainian children to speak and study in their native tongue.

[Anonymous No.22095255]

>>22093469
Gay comic, but in regard to your question, Evola saw nationalism as a cheap and bastardized substitute for tradition spawned from the French Revolution. In Ride the Tiger he dedicates a whole chapter to this idea.

[Anonymous No.22095286]

Benedict Anderson - Imagined Communities

[Anonymous No.22095423]

>>22094982
>insulated upper middle class faggot was a fuck up and thinks he understands the working class
You're playing on easy, retard.

[Anonymous No.22095439]

kinda stupid comic considering those kind of extractive agrarian economies generally predated nationalism

[Anonymous No.22095570]

>>22095423
What's the difference between a fuck up and a "working class person"?
How do you know?

[Anonymous No.22095636]

>>22093540
never knew Marshall McLuhan to be the internationalist type

[Anonymous No.22095638]

>>22093667
a bit of leftover of Rousseau in Marx's writings apparently.

[Anonymous No.22095642]

>>22094901
being able to predict outcomes is very determinstic in nature and is the flipside of the same coin that Marxism was built upon. most applied economics is basically witchcraft.

[Anonymous No.22095647]

>>22095255
didn't Evola essentially believe in a return to empires?

[Anonymous No.22095670]

>>22095570
Check your privilege, libtard.

[Anonymous No.22095846]

>>22093681
as always, Greenland sits up there, creepy as hell with its "no data" results falsely posing as a null while secretly hiding dark and terrible secrets.

[Anonymous No.22095848]

>>22093469
This picture always makes me laugh. Because if identifying with your countrymen, who you at least share an ethnic background and culture with, is ridiculous to the left, then identifying with strangers on the other side of the world just because they’re “fellow workers” should be 100 times as ridiculous.

[aaa No.22095866]

>>22093681
In Russia, a woman can kill someone attempting to rape her charge free.

[Anonymous No.22095944]

>>22095088

[Anonymous No.22096126]

>>22093681
>green sweden

[Anonymous No.22096131]

Richard Smith - National Identity

[Anonymous No.22096136]

Anthony D. Smith - National Identity

[Anonymous No.22096152]

>>22093469
this looks like a modern cartoon. i dont know why a modern cartoon would be implying that the rich and powerful foster nationalistic sentiment.

[Anonymous No.22096154]

>>22096152
It's an aspect of modern nationalism , you cannot doubt. Only a single side to the cube though

[Anonymous No.22096761]

>>22094901
you made a number of bitter basement incels very upset with your post anon. good on you, hope you continue doing well. the world is always within your grasp

[Anonymous No.22096819]

>>22093745
No it's not. Quit making shit up

[Anonymous No.22097121]

>>22093678
I just realized there's a turd floating in there. I think I can actually masturbate to this.

[Anonymous No.22097175]

>>22096819
I cannot even blame him. I was taught an even more retarded definition of nationalism. His definition shows the subjective taint of marxist ideology in it. I was taught that nationalism is nothing more than patriotism taken too far. This is wrong, but I cannot quite identify nexus for the retardation. Teachers will likely never be punished for teaching absolute gibberish. That would be an interesting experiment - show flag, tell what you were taught in school, tell what you actually believe. That would at least clarify some confusion but airing the dirty laundry.

[Anonymous No.22097206]

>>22096761
>anyone who wants anything other than permissive multicultural international unlimited immigration capitalist neoliberalism is a bitter basement incel

[Anonymous No.22097221]

>>22097206
New Romanity.

[Anonymous No.22097313]

>>22095570
Have you never actually met a fucked up working class person? Their shit is fucking bleak. If you're middle class you'll never truly understand the terror they feel over silly things like being poor or the insecurities they have about themselves.

[Anonymous No.22097320]

>>22093469

[Anonymous No.22097345]

>>22097313
I work on the floor of a factory (machine maintenence/troubleshooting) and none of my coworkers are like this. The fuck ups you are referring to are not working class they are fucking losers, criminals, junkies. Please do not conflate them with actually productively laboring people. Most of my coworkers have a mortgage, decent cars, children. All of them have medical and dental insurance.

[Anonymous No.22097354]

>>22097345
Uh what if the factory goes away?

[Anonymous No.22097378]

>>22097320
This one is available to me. Can you give a gestalt?

[Anonymous No.22097383]

>>22097354
Not him, but what if misfortune targets the ''middle class'' that you are referencing.

[Anonymous No.22097392]

Top kek, this thread perfectly represents /lit/ter

[Anonymous No.22097395]

>>22097383
What if there's widespread unemployment due to middle class jobs disappearing? Haha, that'll never happen!

[Anonymous No.22097403]

>>22097378
This link work?
http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=594F5F3A4FF7EBF6B4A5C7FC1BC104A3

Gestalt: the only way to freedom is the commune. There can be no commune through “proletariat” dictatorship worse than the old dictatorship by divine right or constitutional representational oligarchy. So here’s how.

[Anonymous No.22097412]

>>22093564
It is what nationalism is. We don’t need to think it. That’s what it is.
Good god. The state of rightoid heads.

[Anonymous No.22097484]

>>22097354
There are other places for all of us to work, which probably accounts for our wages being pretty okay. In fact there is one opening up not a mile from where I work where I anticipate a lot of people will go when it opens up. Skilled labor, which I do, is in very high demand at least in my area. The fact is is that we are all dependent on the system of production in which we are a part whether we live in a worker's soviet, a horticultural village or an open market society, so your question is meaningless.
>"oh yeah, well what if the sun burns out. then where is your precious capitalism then!?!?"
Not that I am a partisan of capitalism or any other production arrangement (though I think it is probably to my benefit that industries are not owned outright by the state), I just don't like my ilk being conflated with the most derelict niggers and retards imaginable. When I or any one I work with sees some drugged out bum, we do not think "my brother."

[Anonymous No.22097500]

>>22093469
any ww1 and ww2 history book.

[Anonymous No.22097517]

>>22093469
This pic just ignores basically all of economic Nationalism. Kind of like actual communists during the rise of fascism where they just ended up calling everything some variant of capitalism. Even Marx had the decency to address some of it.

[Anonymous No.22097633]

>>22097403
Thanks for the gestalt, buddy. I am going to grab the hard copy that I saw available.

[Anonymous No.22097641]

>>22097395
>Haha, that'll never happen!
Enjoy the dream while it lasts.

[Anonymous No.22097644]

>>22097412
>That’s what it is.
Only through the lens of your ideology.

[Anonymous No.22097668]

>>22093469
Polanyi, Braudel, Wallerstein.

[Anonymous No.22097674]

>>22097517
Just like how she-who-shall-not-be-named always shellacked everything that she did not like as ''capitalism in decline'' or ''late stage capitalism''.

[Anonymous No.22097681]

>>22093475
Tower of Babel

[Anonymous No.22097682]

>>22097644
No, it literally is about the ones with money writing a law proclaiming a line in the sand, and encouraging the poor to feel pride in that arrangement. You are an absolute tool bootlicker for believing it to be a mythical truth passed by god or whatever it is. It was money and power, dipshit.

[Anonymous No.22097704]

>>22097682
>No, it literally is about
>You are an absolute tool bootlicker for believing
>dipshit
Not much of an argument.

[Anonymous No.22097716]

>>22097682
Lol, the monopoly man with a hat looks just as poor as the people next to him, besides the fact that he has a box full of gold but it doesn't seem like he can do much with it.

[Anonymous No.22097717]

>>22097704
>the ones with money writing a law proclaiming a line in the sand, and encouraging the poor to feel pride in that arrangement.
No, reread this part and stop being a dipshit and go compare it to documentation.
Oh, and love how you don’t even offer your own conception. Fucking troll

[Anonymous No.22097727]

>>22097716
>I swear I cannot into cartoon. Really! I am that stupid!

[Anonymous No.22097733]

>>22097727
The cartoon sucks, besides the fact that it was done to indoctrinate <90 iq people.

[Anonymous No.22097762]

>>22097733
The cartoon is right in its figurative fashion. You can only imagine the wealthy man with a smile and the outcome a great good. That’s your black-tongued opinion and you can have it, but there’s nothing wrong with it for the metaphor cutting too deeply. It’s supposed to cut.

[Anonymous No.22097766]

>>22097762
I don't know what to reply to this, it would be like arguing with a troon.

[Anonymous No.22097814]

>>22097766
You got btfo and you can have your stupid opinion if you want it so bad. Some people don’t like the taste of shoe polish is all.
>AAH! A TRANNY. YOU MUST BE TROON! 49% NAO!
Poor cope. Every fucking time

[Anonymous No.22097841]

>>22097814
Must be sad and pathetic to be like you, without anything that belongs to you, without nationality, without ethnos so your natural response is wanting to degrade everyone to your level

[Anonymous No.22097856]

>>22097841
No. I don’t have to live with delusional morons like you.
I talk with you now as a service. Get well someday. Seeing the world as your own and all the people and animals as yours too.
Racists and nationalists always strike me as scared out of their gourds, it’s almost funny if it weren’t so sad.
Take care.

[Anonymous No.22097870]

>>22097856
> No. I don’t have to live with delusional morons like you.
Good, stay on your feud (if you have one, lol).
> I talk with you now as a service.
Lol, I never needed your service, I know much better what a nationality is. Mine was etablished by my ancestors to secure invaders from getting inside their country and take their freedom. My nationality was a reaction to the envisioned alternative of becoming a bootlicker to foreign lords.
> Racists and nationalists always strike me as scared out of their gourds,
And I couldn't care less. What to me is worthy of tears are the degenerate nation who wanting nothing, loving nothing, consider with a mournful indulgence the bored suicide of Apicius.

[Anonymous No.22098069]

>>22097717
>compare it to documentation
What documentation, Marx?

[Anonymous No.22098078]

>>22097856
I am sorry that I clocked you at the bodega.

[Anonymous No.22098355]

>>22094850
This. The middle is intentionally being carved out.

[Anonymous No.22098358]

What makes people so perturbed by nationalism? Why would I not prefer an area I live in, and am directly-affected by, be bettered?

No, that does not imply invading other areas and anyone who assumes as such automatically outs themselves as being a resentful idiot.

[Anonymous No.22098369]

>>22093681
wtf does "physical security" mean? Is this more bullshit like pic-related where they ignore that men have less security than women do?

[Anonymous No.22098393]

>>22095866
>>22093681
India is portrayed as some misogynistic oppressive country but that's only in a few rural areas. In most of the country feminism is in control and has a lot of misandrist laws. It's even legal for women to rape men in India. India MRAs lobbied to change that law but Indian feminists have more power and kept it legal for women to rape men.

[Anonymous No.22099198]

>>22098369
That image is stunning and brave.

[Anonymous No.22100259]

>>22094152
>Not a single actual argument against this
Based Schopey

[Anonymous No.22100269]

the problem with nationalism is that is another unorganic creation by atheists to replace monarchies with nations. nations existed before atheists took power, but nations as a basis for a political system is a leftist invention only to subvert the previous system. Like anything made up by leftists, it turned to shit quickly and leftists killed each other over this lol. Nationalism is so devoid of any substance that you had right wing atheists defending nationalism, just like you have leftwing atheists defending it lol.
Here is the cope of the nationalists: people who said nationalism existed said it was the language who unified people. The truth is that languages were so numerous that basically only a tiny group of people spoke the same language. After being BTFO, they move on to saying nationalism existed due to folklore. folklore is by definition very local. folklore at the north of a ''nation'' is completely different than the one at the south.
Then they seethe and their last cope is ethnicity which is a very vague idea. If there were mass migrations, then ethnicity is meaningless and if people didnt migrate a lot, then ethnicity just means ''my tiny shitty village'' which has nothing to do with nationalism.

Don't forget it's the french leftists who created nationalism. And the only way they did it is by killing anybody who shitted on their views.

[Anonymous No.22100439]

>>22093631
Unironically both.

[Anonymous No.22100893]

>>22094152
>for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud
No it doesn't. There are and have been plenty of talented nationalists. Maybe he meant 'belief in your nation's infallibility' instead of national pride, but just forgot to write it down.

[Anonymous No.22100903]

>>22093564
They actually think a nation is a border and economic zone.
Nation comes form Latin, natio, “race, people, tribe, etc.” A group of people who are united by ancestry (genetics), culture, and language, who often (but not always) inhabit the same territory. This can include tribal or racial groups, e.g. Native American tribes or African Americans. Synonymous with ‘ethnic group’ (from Greek ethnos cognate with natio).

[Anonymous No.22100916]

>>22093469
Not really against nationalism properly, but "Nation and Nationalism since 1780" by Eric Hobsbawm is a good historical account of the development of the idea and there are lots of references that you could enjoy. I learned about Kantorowicz from him (he praises him).

[Anonymous No.22100920]

>>22100903
A nationstate. That’s what nationalism is.
Further study of what “ethnicity” is just proves what is rather obvious to modern minds. They’re *traditionally* quite porous. And the nationstate age sought to dispel this tradition. Kings wanting to tax and enlist “his” people for wars needed this.
A people such as the Latins, absorbed the Greek settlers, the Etruscan natives and the Romans, and even more after the imperial period. Empires used to do this all the time on past the revolutionary age. The Austrian empire being partly german and partly Italian speakers. “Ethno states” are a new thing, “trad” larper.

[Anonymous No.22100971]

>>22100903
Genetics mean nothing and things like language and culture are so fragile and easy to erase. There can't be any real nationalism outside the borders because different countries create different views and customs and force their own ideology and/or worldview on its inhabitants.
You picture features Japanese girls. These cuties would consider Japanese Brazilians just as foreign and as any white gaijin, even though they share the same blood. The negroes on your picture are as culturally far from African American people as they are from you. And women in the middle look like Tatars, the people who have almost had their nationalistic rise but are now slowly losing their language and culture.
It's incredibly easy to make someone a nationalism obsessed degenerate, forcing onto them whatever views you want, telling that this is "their real culture". And it's also easy to make someone forget "their people" and lose their sence of being the part of the tribe, make them join another one.
Your fantasies have no real basis.

[Anonymous No.22101000]

>>22100971
>Genetics mean nothing
I stopped reading here. If you have this "opinion" anything you say is worthless.

[Anonymous No.22101042]

>>22101000
NTA. Well it means nothing to a nation or a traditional tribe. Only to modern nation-statism and racist nationalism. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.22101044]

>>22093475
Dumb fuck nigger

[Anonymous No.22101292]

>>22101000
>that webm
>>22101000
you have contributed nothing to civilization. How pathetic and sad your life must be that you have to cope by saying "b-but OTHER PEOPLE who have a similar skin color as me have accomplished these things!"

[Anonymous No.22101327]

>>22101000
I thought that the woman in the upper left corner had a black cock coming to her face. It would have been very fitting actually.

[Anonymous No.22101347]

>>22101292
Got you a little worked up, huh?
>race is just skin color
lol
Also, I don't take credit for the accomplishments of others. Nor am I stupid enough to think race alone makes someone "better" than someone else; I have met plenty of white trash and respectable non-whites. The only claim being implied here is that population genetics is in fact important, and can lead to wildly divergent outcomes. As should be obvious to anyone.
And comparisons can be made of various traits of these racial populations, speaking of averages and distributions, and one can then apply value judgement. It is also factual that the European race is several times more "accomplished" by virtually any measure than the rest of the world combined.

[Anonymous No.22101381]

>>22097175
>the subjective taint of marxist ideology
Only aspies say things like this. You may own a thesaurus, but that doesn't make you anything more than an idiot. Your kind of sped is the worst breed.

[Anonymous No.22101880]

>>22093469
But modern capitalists are anti nationalist in context of borders and immigration.

[Anonymous No.22103167]

>>22100903
nations in the modern sense are not latin nations you ignorant retard, and the meaning of word is not its etymology you stupid heideggerian sheep. Are we clear on this?
If we are, then study history: modern nation states were literally invented no more than 200 years ago, by re-telling previous history in the most propagandistic, idiotic way possible, which you still somehow study in school but which gets absolutely demolished by each and any university study. If you take a random european country (e.g. Italy) you can see that at the time of its unification into a "nation", people could barely understand each other from north to south and that while, yes, the territory may have been identified because of geographical borders, there was barely any sense of shared history among its population. The hallucination of Italy as a nation is something created by its poets, its writers, its historians and, especially, the people who wanted it to be a unified country - which were by no means the majority of the people living there, who had no sense whatsoever of belonging to a higher unity and just worked their asses off for their masters to subsequently die in the mud. Much like you do today.
I won't even start on who tribal or racial groups, as well as ancient cities, Rome, etc. are not and were not ever a "nation" in the modern sense of the word.

[Anonymous No.22103182]

mutt ideology in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.22103187]

>>22101381
You don't need a thesaurus for that, hon.

[Anonymous No.22103205]

>>22093469
>this pic
why then ~80% of multimillionaires support massive immigration and globalist policies?

[Anonymous No.22103267]

>>22093469
Marxist theses on nationalism contrast with their theses on economics and imperialism. They are not to be taken seriously.
>>22103167
Nta but you're moving the goal post. He's talking about nations, not nation states. The idea that nations must necessarily have states is perhaps 200 years old, coinciding with the rise of popular sovereignity, but nations are much older. Even crusader orders were divided into nations based on the origin of their knights. In the context of Italian unification, saying that everybody that could read believed in an united nation is not the win you think it is. Who cares what the peasant thinks? It is not he who knows history, or anything else beyond 10 miles from his farm. He has no political power whatsoever. The cities and towns though, the main centers of cultural and political life, they overwhelmingly decided to join Italy because they identified with it. Modern nations are an expansion of the old meaning of the same, or perhaps you could say a dialectical development in the context of universalized Catholic monarchies, it doesn't matter. Post hand.

[Anonymous No.22103295]

ITT: people who pretend to read books but think nationalism is about geographic territory

[Anonymous No.22103308]

The irony about all these cucked Westerners striving to be liberal cosmopolitan individualists is that that attitude itself is a thoroughly provincial Western ideology.

[Boobs Bigley No.22103361]

Notes on Nationalism by George Orwell.

[Anonymous No.22103762]

>>22100259
>any person of worth just can't hold onto national pride
>umm because I said so okay!
Weak

[Anonymous No.22103779]

>>22100971
>Genetics mean nothing
Doesn't explain the vast IQ gaps between different races, especially blacks versus most others

[Anonymous No.22103818]

>>22095647
Nationalism isn’t imperialism, in fact they often clash

[Anonymous No.22103824]

>>22098369
Is this image real? I can’t believe it is.
Do they not realise that what they’re saying is
>90% of journalists killed are men, stop targeting women journalists!!!

[Anonymous No.22103831]

>>22097412
stupid idiot

[Anonymous No.22103843]

>>22093469
http://www.ruthlesscriticism.com/nationalismforidiots.htm

[Anonymous No.22103936]

>>22096761
Simp

[Anonymous No.22104191]

>>22093469
There is Eric Hobsbawm who wrote a series of books where he asserts that 'nationalism' was manufactored by elites around the turn of the industrial revolution. But, he was refuted by azar gat in his book 'nations' watch keith woods playlist on the sociology of nationalism. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGv-DbSbZH6NOSlwACZL348Bjq4oOpXTL

[Anonymous No.22104308]

>>22104191
I just posted the facts about this quite simply already, anon.
You look to the Austrian empire as your example. The imperial model is what we had, the national model is an excuse to rip them apart. It was an invention. Leftists like Garibaldi fought the imperialists but not so much for the smaller ethnic state as for freedom from tyranny.
Hitler embarks on a question to annex non-Germans. That’s just a walking back of nationalism because he was a lying piece of shit.

Go in reverse and rediscover the makeup of human tribes, nomadic, semi-nomadic, w/e. They have always been genial and quick to absorb someone from another tribe who wishes to stay with them. Even really strange looking ones of different complexions.

Just the fact of the matter anon. Nationalism is an invention, a stage of statism. Hobsbawm is 100% correct.

[Anonymous No.22104348]

>>22104308
>a question to annex
*Quest

[Anonymous No.22104641]

>>22094982
>>22094901
>>22095570
>>22097345
When they actually organize they are going to come for us retard.
t. also Upper Middle class and hate that my class is so retarded it wants to repeat the French Revolution

>>22094927
>>22094930
>>22094934
>>22095034
>>22095423
>>22095670
>>22097313
>>22097354
>>22097383
>>22097395
>>22097641
Anyone have any book recommendations for surviving your economic class killing itself and getting your family through the revolution?

[Anonymous No.22104984]

>>22104641
>t. also Upper Middle class
You make more money than the Kardashians?
Join, lend a hand to organize

[Anonymous No.22104996]

>>22093667
In my country, nationalism is considered left-wing and globalism right-wing.

[Anonymous No.22105002]

>>22093681
Red: high test

[Anonymous No.22105149]

>>22104984
>Join, lend a hand to organize
That's my plan at this point, but they might still kill me regardless, and honestly I can't even blame them. I've watched DC degenerate over 3 generations and it just gets worse and worse. But, if they'll have me, I'll do my best in hopes something gets stabilized in the aftermath.

[Anonymous No.22105156]

>>22093469
If only we could have a system of nationalism, where the wealth stays locally, but also a mechanism to raise up the working class or to give them a real opportunity to become educated or to start businesses of their own, some kind of socialism perhaps. Maybe, combine those two things?

[Anonymous No.22105160]

>>22104641
>your economic class killing itself
how is that? are your crumbs from the big table dwindling?

[Anonymous No.22105174]

I had sexual intercourse one night with a girl who thought I was rich (I have an aristocratic face but I descend from plebeians). In the morning she told me to fuck off because she realized I was not from old money :(

[Anonymous No.22105207]

>>22100920
>the two main languages of the Austrian empire were German and Italian
Get a load of this fucking moron

[Anonymous No.22105222]

>>22093469
I like that graphic, because it's so howlingly wrong.

The Marxist revolutions in Asia (China, Korea, Vietnam) were basically nationalists using Marxism as a banner to rally under in order to expel foreign colonists. Marxism, ultimately, is a tool in the hands of Asian nationalists.

[Anonymous No.22105233]

>>22105174
I descend from regional old money, have a regal name, and have been told I was attractive, but most girls dropped me when they found out that my branch of the family lost their wealth in the last generation. Joke's on them though I made it back after I got married.

[Anonymous No.22105479]

>>22105156
Sure, and to prevent a centralized class from harnessing all the wealth and becoming an effete group of aristocrats, we institute a 100% death tax. True meritocracy. Along with several anti-nepotism laws to prevent circumvention.

[Anonymous No.22105521]

>>22093469
The only idea you'd ever need for or against nationalism is ethnic self determination.

[Anonymous No.22105579]

>>22105160
>are your crumbs from the big table dwindling?
Yes, a chunk of the 'woke' stuff and cancel culture is people cynically finding excuses to keep their grift contractor jobs they inherited from their Parents by purging other potential competitors; A lot of them aren't even fully aware they are doing it, it is more of a subconscious action. In general, everyone is way more schizo, but also put themselves in a bigger bubble at the same time.

[Anonymous No.22105595]

>>22093564
There's this term called "feindbild" in german, which translates to "enemy-image". It is what people call the visions and understandings which particular groups have about groups they are opposed to. Like commies have a feindbild of fascism as the servant of capitalism and the nazis had a feindbild of communism as a mask for jewish tribal interests.

The way I see it, "nationalism" has always been liberalism's feindbild. Nationalism is when you do, say, or think things which liberals don't like. Like a milder form of "fascism" which also doesn't mean anything nowadays besides doing something outrageous by liberal standards.

[Anonymous No.22105605]

>>22105595
It's an explicitly marxist toon, as seen in the evil rich man with a hat. Marxists hate nationalism too (USSR and most other communist empires were explicitly anti-nationalistic and wanted to abolish the concept of nationality within their empires). So the maker of this toon decided to pretend capitalists and nationalists are the same thing. It's the mental gymnastics necessary for calling natsocs capitalists.

[Anonymous No.22105614]

>>22105605
...isn't it weird how zombified our understandings of politics are? Everyone is so caught up in LARPing out their mental Weimar.

[Anonymous No.22105620]

>>22105579
>a chunk
"Woke" shit is the CIA constructing its latest civil religion after the post-WW2 reconstruction civil religion of nu-liberalism has become both out of step with the times and too complicated for BOTH the new underclass of latinoids and blacks AND their white/asian office lady handlers, neither of which groups can read books or understand philosophical principles. Post-1945 nu-liberalism (and its associated Popperian scientism etc.) was built for boomer men, who were residually capable of thinking. The New Class of pill-popping childless office whores and nigger puppet underlings has its own religion of "be nice" (diversity/acceptance) and its own custom tailored media (pop culture slop and social media). The internet was a double-edges sword in that it both made these new media of control possible AND created a lot of interim, localized bubbles of cultural autonomy like 4chan in which it momentarily appeared as if organic counterculture is still possible, but from the perspective of the totality these are just bubbles and they will be surrounded and destroyed in detail now that the system has learned from its mistakes and regrouped.

Actual production is carried out by a small minority and mostly automated, and the goal is total automation. The rest of the population, from the perspective of the system and its woke CIA intersectionality stuff, is made up of useless eaters who can be de-/re-constructed, displaced and resettled, and culled as needed. All of education (primary and secondary), all administration, and the entire culture industry have been colonized and transformed into modular and expendable appendages of woke shit. There are no real charities, no activism, no political ideologies or parties that aren't controlled theaters of operation within the system. There are no autonomous dynamics like "woke NGO people don't want to lose their cushy jobs so they naturally ... (etc.)" anymore, all of these have to be viewed from the perspective of the totality, which is consciously steered by vampire pedophiles via frankenstein radio control.

[Anonymous No.22105627]

>>22105605
>It's an explicitly marxist toon,
I read "explicitly marxist troon" and was going to reply isn't that redundant

[Anonymous No.22105635]

>>22105614
Blame it on the revolutions of the 18th and 19th Century.

[Anonymous No.22105650]

>>22105620
I think an underestimated part of this phenomenon is the marriage of liberal politics and the concept of mental health. Like the whole vulgarized freudianism associated with "analyzing" dissidents and the idea of the Authoritarian Personality, and all the derivative books written in the same vein. Though it has become even stranger ever since mental issue chic has became a thing and libs are forced to simultaneously accept the contradictory ideas of there being no such thing as a "healthy mind" (or the idea of mental soundness being a racist/colonialist/misogynistic social construct) and the aforementioned idea of being sound of mind being associated with holding lefty opinions about politics and culture.

[Anonymous No.22105672]

>>22105650
Women are the key to this whole thing. They think in mushy quasi-concepts and can hold contradictory notions simultaneously. By making them the default citizens, default targets of political propaganda, default consumers, default "person in need" / victim / person you ought to be concerned about in general, default employee, default student, etc., everybody else has been shifted toward their retarded center of gravity. Men are becoming feminized on a thousand different axes. No thinking is going on, the kind of thinking that would go "but wait, you can't have BOTH x and y in the same ideology," only woman feeling-thinking.

[Anonymous No.22105685]

>>22105620
>>22105672
You blame it on women, I blame it on the revolutions of the 18th and 19th Century.

[Anonymous No.22105702]

>>22105650
Philip Rieff took the beginnings of this apart decades ago. Lasch is right that he had no real solution though, as a Jew content to take refuge in the remains of the university and averse to politics.

[Anonymous No.22105708]

>>22105672
Women only think what they are made to feel they should think by their milieu and the media, and they love policing others who don't think about things the way they were made to feel everyone should think. Basically, they have always been the gestapo/stasi of their communities, there's no scenario where they wouldn't choose enforcing the social norms they were programmed to enforce over thinking about things critically.

[Anonymous No.22105964]

The only 2 legitimate cases you can make against it are from a universalist religious perspective and a Nietzchean aristocratic perspective. Not to say their cases are any better I can at least see why someone would be able to find their causes to be more noble then nationalism.

[Anonymous No.22105976]

>>22100903
>Nation comes form Latin, natio, “race, people, tribe, etc.”
Appeal to etymology. Typical retard's fallacy.

[Anonymous No.22106596]

>>22093761
What the fuck? I've read both those books. Skousen is the most patriotic man that ever lived. None date call it was against a new world order and the CFS. You are way off

[Anonymous No.22107463]

>>22093469
leftoids get all their beliefs from political comics and twitter

[Anonymous No.22107825]

>>22107463
Rightoids get all their beliefs from their pastors.

Hemorrhoids (libertarians) get all their beliefs from the stock tips guy.

Tankies (Marxoids) obviously get their beliefs from one source, and that’s the Pentagon

[Anonymous No.22107847]

>>22093569
I mean yeah this is one of the most cited books ever. You kind of need to read it op

[Anonymous No.22108054]

>>22107825
>reddit spacing
didn't read

[Anonymous No.22108132]

>>22106596
I think it's just linking them as an info dump, not answering OP's question

[Anonymous No.22108205]

>>22097313
>Have you never actually met a fucked up working class person? Their shit is fucking bleak.
Yeah I have. I used to work at a pizza place which was half staffed by middle aged hopeless fuck ups.
Before that I was a linecook at a restaurant and there was a guy who worked there who would complain about his cockroach infested apartment where addicts lined the walls.
I'm familiar enough and still think the line between middle class fuck up & working class is ambiguous.
I've met plenty of people that came from a decent background, but through some twist of fortune or personal failure have ended up in dire straights trapped in dead end jobs.
There is a definite difference, someone from a middle class background is somewhat less precarious has that safety net of their family, but it's not always a dramatic difference.

[Anonymous No.22108236]

>>22107463
> leftoids get all their beliefs from political comics and twitter
> t. rightoid retruths a chad wojak jpeg then goes back to suffering

[Anonymous No.22108240]

>>22107825
Centroids get their beliefs from unsupervised clustering algorithms.

[Anonymous No.22108625]

>>22108054
They’re three very distinct groups, anon.