/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21924936]

*makes capitalist boot lickers runs for the lives in fear and rage*

Nothing personal, kiddo

[Anonymous No.21924948]

So you design the app yet?

[Anonymous No.21925939]

>>21924936
Sorry, you forfeit the term 'bootlicker' once you started mimicking every corporate talking point, told everyone to get some experimental vaccine that doesn't vaccinate and roooared approval at locking up the closest thing to a revolution the US has seen since it's inception.

[Anonymous No.21926037]

>>21924936
Muh computers

[Anonymous No.21926040]

>>21926037
Nigga was named COCK SHOT what a clown!

[Anonymous No.21926055]

>>21924936
AI planned economy

. AI can mitigate the past issues of planned economies and pursuit of stateless classless Marxist society. We have the tech and capability to do so now that we didnt then. If the US becomes socialist, then the rest of the world will follow as well and global revolution will be achieved

Communism is inevitable.
We should be able to agree that the purpose of life is to live a happy, comfortable and meaningful life. In order to do this we need freedom from wage labor, exploitation, and slavery. Wealth distribution would have us all share in what we each produce. We also need to share each other's burdens. The wealthy are privileged in many ways, and must recognize that they have a moral obligation to use their advantages for the common good.

One way to ensure proper wealth distribution and equality is by creating an AI that would calculate a person's need and distribute wealth accordingly.

This AI would have to know everything about everyone in order to calculate need. It must know the person's financial status, and what he could afford. It could also take into account their behavior and social credit score to ensure that those who are well behaved receive greater benefits than the antisocial.

It must also know the person's physical and mental health, as well as any other attributes deemed relevant. It would have to be a very complex AI. AI could also be used to calculate a perfect planned economy and distribution. In my AI proposal, the social credit score would provide an incentive for people to work harder or behave. Otherwise they will be denied benefits and privileges. Law abiding workers will have equal share of resources.

AI can mitigate the past issues of planned economies and pursuit of stateless classless Marxist society. We have the tech and capability to do so now that we didnt then. If the US becomes socialist, then the rest of the world will follow as well and global revolution will be achieved!

We have the tech, the power, the youth, and the future. These problems of wealth inequality and poverty should be addressed using the means we have available. Scientific socialism is the future and inevitable. Viva la revolution!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towards_a_New_Socialism

[Anonymous No.21926060]

Communism is inevitable.
We should be able to agree that the purpose of life is to live a happy, comfortable and meaningful life. In order to do this we need freedom from wage labor, exploitation, and slavery. Wealth distribution would have us all share in what we each produce. We also need to share each other's burdens. The wealthy are privileged in many ways, and must recognize that they have a moral obligation to use their advantages for the common good.

One way to ensure proper wealth distribution and equality is by creating an AI that would calculate a person's need and distribute wealth accordingly.

This AI would have to know everything about everyone in order to calculate need. It must know the person's financial status, and what he could afford. It could also take into account their behavior and social credit score to ensure that those who are well behaved receive greater benefits than the antisocial.

It must also know the person's physical and mental health, as well as any other attributes deemed relevant. It would have to be a very complex AI. AI could also be used to calculate a perfect planned economy and distribution.

We have the tech, the power, the youth, and the future. These problems of wealth inequality and poverty should be addressed using the means we have available. Scientific socialism is the future and inevitable. Viva la revolution!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towards_a_New_Socialism

[Anonymous No.21926062]

>>21925939
Thsi isn’t related to the thread, anon.

>>21926037
>computers: How do they work?
>*ICP faced*

>>21926040
Only at Grovers Mill! Ha!

[Anonymous No.21927113]

>>21926060
>We should be able to agree that the purpose of life is to live a happy, comfortable and meaningful life

"The death drive is not a desire for death, but rather a hydraulic tendency to the dissipation of intensities. In its primary dynamics it is utterly alien to everything human, not least the three great pettinesses of representation, egoism, and hatred. The death drive is Freud’s beautiful account of how creativity occurs without the least effort, how life is propelled into its extravagances by the blindest and simplest of tendencies, how desire is no more problematic than a river’s search for the sea.
The hypothesis of self-preservative drives, such as we attribute to all living beings, stands in marked opposition to the idea that the life of the drives as a whole serves to bring about death. Seen in this light, the theoretical importance of the drives for self-preservation, power, and prestige diminishes greatly. They are component drives whose function is to assure that the organism shall follow its path to death, and to ward off any possible ways of returning to inorganic existence other than those which are immanent in the organism itself. We have no longer to reckon with the organism’s puzzling determination (so hard to fit into any context) to maintain its own existence in the face of every obstacle. What we are left with is the fact that the organism wants to die only in its own way. Thus these guardians of life, too, were originally the myrmidons of death. Hence arises the paradoxical situation that the organism struggles most energetically against events (dangers, in fact) which might help to attain its life’s aim rapidly – by a kind of short-circuit. Such behaviour is, however, precisely what characterizes purely drive-based as opposed to intelligent efforts."

"Thanatos mimics the anthropomorphic desiring-cycle – anticipating, enveloping, and simulating it – but it is on its way somewhere else. Because thanatropic replicants are dissimulated as erotic reproducers, they initially appear as traitors to their species, especially when the shamanic xenopulsions programming their sexuality are detected. Nothing panics the reproducers more traumatically than the discovery that erotic contact camouflages cyberrevolutionary infiltration, running matrix communications channels across interlocked skin sectors. Defences are called for."

[Anonymous No.21927125]

>>21926060
>by creating an AI
"Traditional schemas which oppose technics to nature, to literate culture, or to social relations, are all dominated by a phobic resistance to the sidelining of human intelligence by the coming techno sapiens. Thus one sees the decaying Hegelian socialist heritage clinging with increasing desperation to the theological sentimentalities of praxis, reification, alienation, ethics, autonomy, and other such mythemes of human creative sovereignty. A Cartesian howl is raised: *people are being treated as things!* Rather than as … soul, spirit, the subject of history, Dasein? For how long will this infantilism be protracted?
If machinery is conceived transcendently as instrumental technology it is essentially determined in opposition to social relations, but if it is integrated immanently as cybernetic technics it redesigns all oppositionality as non-linear flow. There is no dialectic between social and technical relations, but only a machinism that dissolves society into the machines whilst deterritorializing the machines across the ruins of society, whose ‘general theory … is a generalized theory of flux’, which is to say: cybernetics"

"Machinic desire can seem a little inhuman, as it rips up political cultures, deletes traditions, dissolves subjectivities, and hacks through security apparatuses, tracking a soulless tropism to zero control. This is because what appears to humanity as the history of capitalism is an invasion from the future by an artificial intelligent space that must assemble itself entirely from its enemy’s resources. Digitocommodification is the index of a cyberpositively escalating technovirus, of the planetary technocapital singularity: a self-organizing insidious traumatism, virtually guiding the entire biological desiring-complex towards post-carbon replicator usurpation."
"Capital propagates virally in so far as money communicates addiction, replicating itself through host organisms whose boundaries it breaches, and whose desires it reprograms. It incrementally virtualizes production; demetallizing money in the direction of credit finance, and disactualizing productive force along the scale of machinic intelligence quotient. The dehumanizing convergence of these tendencies zeroes upon an integrated and automatized cyberpositive techno-economic intelligence at war with the macropod."

[Anonymous No.21927128]

>>21926060
>This AI would have to know everything about everyone in order to calculate need
>It must also know the person's physical and mental health
"Between the private and the public there is no longer serious competition. Instead there is an evaporating social field invested solely by the defeated and stale affects of insecurity and inertia. The real tension is no longer between individuality and collectivity, but between personal privacy and impersonal anonymity, between the remnants of a smug bourgeois civility and the harsh wilderness tracts of Cyberia, ‘a point where the earth becomes so artificial that the movement of deterritorialization creates of necessity and by itself a new earth’. Desire is irrevocably abandoning the social, in order to explore the libidinized rift between a disintegrating personal egoism and a deluge of post-human schizophrenia."

[Anonymous No.21927246]

>>21927113
I want to take a seafood dinner out for Nick Land and then repeatedly call her after sex. I want to share Nick Land with a lobster (living). I want to eat him until he becomes physical feculent (he is already intellectually feculent) and then let sea monsters that are forbidden by the Torah to eat him while I fuck the sea monsters.

[Anonymous No.21927299]

>>21926060
>Wealth distribution
Look up the idea behind “Fondul Proprietatea” in Romania. Also check out the VAT system in Romania: VAT for food is low, and on Tobacco, alcohol and electronics high, and for real-estate high (unless you you buy you first RE property then you dont pay VAT). Also look up the concept of general worker’s association and its achievements in Israel (minimum wage increase etc), the evolution of the allowing multibillion companies huge tax benefits and promotion of skilled laborers (in high-tech positions).

[Anonymous No.21927351]

>>21926060
>This AI would have to know everything about everyone in order to calculate need. It must know the person's financial status, and what he could afford
lmao this will in reality just be used to turn you further into a product. Companies will basically get a live feed of your hormonal balanance and can market products accordingly. The planned economy part will also only be planned to benifit the rich who were able to invest, develop and implement AI. Thinking it'll just create some utopia is extremely naive.

[Anonymous No.21927379]

>>21927351
>were able to invest, develop and implement AI
Actually most great inventions were funded by governments and not private investors.

[Anonymous No.21927383]

>>21926060
>by creating an AI that would calculate a person's need and distribute wealth accordingly
How is an AI going to do that exactly?

[Anonymous No.21927392]

>>21927383
>>21927351
This anon answered it; read all the replies to the end before asking questions that were previously answered. Not anon you were replying to btw.

[Anonymous No.21927397]

>>21927351
>Companies will basically get a live feed of your hormonal balanance
Blockchain it, so that only an impartial uneditable inhuman algorithm would have access to it, but no one else.
And if that algorithm was that badly poorly designed, then just fork it, and start anew.

[Anonymous No.21927399]

>>21927383
> This AI would have to know everything about everyone in order to calculate need. It must know the person's financial status, and what he could afford. It could also take into account their behavior and social credit score to ensure that those who are well behaved receive greater benefits than the antisocial.
And answered it.

>>21926060
> behavior and social credit score to ensure that those who are well behaved receive greater benefits than the antisocial.
>social credit score
This concept was thought already in fascist Italy and China uses this model today. That’s a horrible idea, although the “credit score” in America is also horrible and inhumane (extreme capitalism is even more inhumane).

[Anonymous No.21927423]

>>21925939
When did I say that?

[Anonymous No.21927425]

>>21927383

All of humanity's problems are now the problem of some AI that doesn't even exist. We are no longer responsible for anything, it's great isn't it.

[Anonymous No.21927428]

>>21927425
>All of humanity's problems are now the problem of some AI that doesn't even exist.
All of humanity's problems are now the problem of Kolmogorov complexity

[Anonymous No.21927429]

LE GOMMUNISM! Get a job u fucking losers.

[Anonymous No.21927858]

>>21927429
You seem to enjoy sucking bankers’ dick.

[Anonymous No.21928189]

Creating our own labor vouchers is a reasonable thing to do. Waiting for the dollar to crash and the US government to replace it with a digital currency for your smartphone, is a dumb state-cuck thing to do.
So questions.
1. Which would you like to do, locally made vouchers or Federally issued accumulative debt digital notes?
2. What political leanings do you have?

>>21927429
Masked arsonists and other assorted liberals that are well directed by the Pentagon aren't doing anything to advance anarchist ideology, so kindly disregard them. They're not anarchists

[Anonymous No.21928218]

>>21928189
Anarchist here, please explain how labor vouchers will meaningfully differ from money for longer than a week? It seems like there's literally no reason to think they aren't just a utopian pipedream.

[Anonymous No.21928222]

>>21928218
Anarchist here, my ideology is the most retarded of all.

[Anonymous No.21928238]

>>21926060
>muh tech will save us
lmao, dumb capitalist pig

"On the other hand, there are people who say that only science and technology can be relied upon to provide the answers. There are others who believe they can fight against violence by putting forward remedies against aggressiveness, and so on. These people all subscribe, in a general way, to the proposition that each problem presupposes its own particular scientific solution. They are therefore essentially passive, since they take the view that the human being is a simple object to be manipulated. They are also completely unequipped to create new interhuman relationships (which is something they have in common with the adversaries of science); they are unable to see that a scientific solution is a capitalist solution, because it eliminates humans and lays open the prospect of a totally controlled society"

[Anonymous No.21928255]

>>21928238
Communism worships technology, as does Capitalism. Don't be an incel about it.

[Anonymous No.21928261]

>>21926060
Something like Fascism is literally eternal. There are always scarce valuable things to fight over: women, best land to live in, positions in a hierarchy and other goods. The form of competition will vary but will always exist. The possiblity of violent takeover by an organised group will always exist and other groups must be formed to constantly guard against it. Violence is a permanent element of politics and only takes different forms: in liberal democracy violence is used to protect property, in communism it is used to fight accumulation of property, and in fascism it is used to take property from foreign elements.

[Anonymous No.21928266]

>>21928255
weird reply but thanks for rewording my point

[Anonymous No.21928281]

>>21924936
dr dickblast makes for primo reading material. thank you for sharing his work here.

[Anonymous No.21928788]

>>21928218
It’s earned by your labor, assigned in your name, to you. No one can steal it.
You pay for item and it is canceled out. There’s no till and no banks involved. The place you spent it at are earning their own labor time vouchers.
It is time sensitive, to be determined, the value of things are set by computer. Cockshott goes into more details in the book. The main thing that sets it apart from money it that it is non-accumulative. No one grows rich on this method, no one’s poor. For those who can work, meets can work out how they can be taken care of. The commune will cut a lot of jobs, so most remaining jobs will have many workers doing less time. Much can be determined later.

As an anarchist myself, I endorse this as a transitional method for local commerce. (I’m very opposed to Bitcoin even though it bypasses banks, it’s still about rich men gaining traction in a “free market “) As communities grow closer an actual free economy can develop from there.

>>21928255
And in a free economy, we won’t need the voucher app or cell phones. We’d be free to embrace a more agrarian lifestyle. Some still dream of scifi technology pampering us into the next century, but there’s reason to believe technology is going to go caput (maybe not)

[Anonymous No.21928791]

>>21928788
>For those who can’t* work,

[Anonymous No.21929106]

>>21928218
>please explain how labor vouchers will meaningfully differ from money for longer than a week
Money circulates ad infinitum (in theory), such vouchers wouldn't since it'd terminate upon use e.g. corporations issuing coupons for discounts or free goods isn't "utopian" but claiming you could base an economy around that somehow as an alternative to money is. Constraining commerce to the quantity of labour performed instead of historically accumulated "wealth" or speculation on the future would be extremely retarding on everything... almost as much as trying to constrain everything based on the supply on shinny rocks available. The unique problem of capitalism is excess capacity and underinvestment needed for profit not equity issues per se

[Anonymous No.21929179]

>>21926060
>create an all powerful ai to redistribute wealth according to a social credit system

lol thats closer to fascism. its not each according to ability to each according to need, but rather favoritism towards those that follow the rules and who the regime likes

[Anonymous No.21929207]

>>21929106
Explain how time worked is retarding.
Recourses and labor are their own rewards. Money, the accumulative short, is imaginary. You think some imbalance is going to happen with labor-time currency? The shiny rocks economy (gold backed) is nothing like this
>profit
In a community people are the source of wealth. Connectivity ensures mutual profits and goodwill.

[Anonymous No.21929356]

>>21924936
I'm still pissed that most people on the left haven't heard of Beer or read his work.

[Anonymous No.21929423]

I thought in a communist system I wouldn’t be forced to work but still get whatever I want? That’s the whole reason I support communism. These labor vouchers just sound like money in a roundabout way.

[Anonymous No.21929466]

>>21929207
Please explain if I’m understanding the concept properly:
>1 hour of labor is pegged at 1 time-dollar, regardless of intensity or type
>time-dollars can be used to exchange for goods and services from others
How is this not like a fiat currency but worse? If all labor is pegged at a standard rate regardless of difficulty or training required, what incentivizes anyone to specialize in any trade other than the most basic? You are certainly economically advantaged to do so
What’s stopping anyone from issuing their friend 100 time bucks for no work at all, if there is no central issuing authority? If there is a central issuing authority, how do you prevent people from lying about how many hours of labor a task took and defrauding the rest of society?

How are time bucks not just a fiat currency but more retarded? How do you determine the fair market price for something like an apple? Is an apple only worth .001 time bucks because it took that long to pick? Is it worth 5000 time bucks because it took that long to cultivate the tree you picked it from? I feel like you can name a million scenarios where the implementation doesn’t track with reality. Are we saying paying someone for 5 hours of time bucks to dig a ditch in front of your home is worth the same as 5 hours of someone working as a barista in the communes coffee shop? And both of these are the same as someone working 5 hours to perform eye surgery?
Ultimately market economies price goods and services to an extent on how much society values certain roles and objects. The will of the people is reflected in the markets, and over a long enough time prices will reflect the real world value of these goods and services. Humans are hierarchical by nature, and our societies reflect this. Unless you intend to implement 100000 years of directed evolution or crispr gene editing to remove this feature, I’m not sure how designing an economy to ignore this basic trait can ever hope to successfully function on a meaningful scale.

[Anonymous No.21929601]

>>21929423
How about sweeping the dinning hall out once a week. Shouldn't take but an hour. You can have a little place to yourself if you really don't want to do just fucking anything.
You were raised in capitalism though. Should we show you how to grow and tend a garden for food?

[Anonymous No.21929605]

>>21929207
>Explain how time worked is retarding.
It's an unnecessary ceiling on demand

>>21929466
>How is this not like a fiat currency but worse?
It wouldn't be a currency since it functions differently. Are coupons issued by corporations "currency"? Not exactly. The big difference is fiat currency keeps exchanging hands and exchanges variably by design. These "vouchers" wouldn't obviously

>If all labor is pegged at a standard rate regardless of difficulty or training required, what incentivizes anyone to specialize in any trade other than the most basic?
Think about "perfect equilibrium". In theory all wages are moving towards equilibrium... in such a state why would different jobs exist and why would people do different things? If that's an absurd question why even use that theoretical instrument to try to conceptualize things instead of embracing chaos?

>How do you determine the fair market price for something like an apple? Is an apple only worth .001 time bucks because it took that long to pick?
Well "fairness" is political mumbo jumbo... people always complain about that and always will. The issue is determining demand and supply without fluctuating prices which is the issue.

>Ultimately market economies price goods and services to an extent on how much society values certain roles and objects
Not "society", people with money command resources. Aggregate demand is all that matters under capitalism... not what you "want" but what you can afford.
Why corporations choose and pay CEOs what they do or why investors aren't forming one big collective syndicate or soviets of corporate stakeholders to increase the supply of executive talent or wrangle down those costs is a sociological exercise.

>The will of the people is reflected in the markets, and over a long enough time prices will reflect the real world value of these goods and services
In the long run we're all dead, etc, etc

[Anonymous No.21929607]

>>21929601
I thought food was free.

[Anonymous No.21929662]

>>21926060
>happy, comfortable and meaningful life
I disagree. Each of those three can and do often conflict with one another. I had the option of living a comfortable life, but I would not have had much meaning.
>The wealthy are privileged in many ways, and must recognize that they have a moral obligation to use their advantages for the common good.
Would it be fair to say those blessed with a great intellect have a moral obligation to use their talents for the common good? If you test at a certain level should the state be able to force you to become something you don't want to be? Doesn't that interfere with the concept of "we should be able to agree that the purpose of life is to live a happy, comfortable[,] and meaningful life"? If you believe that people shouldn't be forced to be something they're not because of their talents, then what difference is there when a million dollar bank account disappears? The two are functionally equivalent. Except instead of disappearing, the wealthy individual just doesn't hand the money over. What's the difference between the intellectual talent and the productive capacity of the money? You are advocating for something you don't understand because your own claims contradict themselves.

[Anonymous No.21930542]

>>21928788
>For those who can work
And handicapped people / old people who cannot work, what will happen to them?
Will the commune have welfare aid programs and pension plans?
Who will sustain and contribute into the pension plans and how?

[Anonymous No.21930549]

>>21929601
yeah, what this anon said: >>21929607
i was told i could get free shit? what happened to that??? it really feels like i'm getting baited here

[Anonymous No.21930553]

>>21929601
>tend a garden for food?
What’s wrong with that? It is better to live agrarian and vegetarian lifestyle than pay for shit overpriced legumes and industrialized meat. Sound to me like a good alternative to believing in capitalism and “praying” to money.

[Anonymous No.21930723]

>Utopia by Thomas More
>The republic by Plato
>De re publica by Cicero
>Philosophy of right & Phenomenology of spirit by Hegel
>Capital by Marx
What do you think of these?

[Anonymous No.21930777]

>>21925939
GOP voters are overwhelmingly proletariat. This contradicts nothing.

[Anonymous No.21930784]

>>21929356
Stop being disingenuous, i consume Beer on a daily basis

[Anonymous No.21931628]

>>21926062
>Thsi isn’t related to the thread, anon.
it is, it show that leftists are the most bootlickers of all

[Anonymous No.21931640]

>>21926060
> The wealthy are privileged in many ways, and must recognize that they have a moral obligation to use their advantages for the common good.
Imagine thinking you are owed something by anyone because you exist as a human.
Stopped reading right there.

[Anonymous No.21931646]

>>21926060
>Muh AI

arent leftists the ones wanting to ban AI for stealing their furry art porn even though they dont believe in intellectual property

[Anonymous No.21931649]

>>21928261
Prove him wrong

[Anonymous No.21931737]

>>21929356
>>21929356
What books do you rec, bro?

[Anonymous No.21931756]

>>21929356
Complete name of this guy, couldn't find anything about it.

[Anonymous No.21931901]

>>21931628
Liberals are not leftists. The post falls flat and might make sense to the bue-pilled tards on pol, but not here, in the real world.

[Anonymous No.21931926]

>>21930542
Yes. Community takes care of the invalids and free of charge. Not so hard when profit motives are removed as the sole social driver.
>pension
Can a voucher not be issued for the retired simply for being a resident? Will it be needed at all?
After the transitionary period everyone won’t even need the vouchers, so I doubt the elderly won’t need anything issued to them. But it’s always up to the community to decide how they’re going to do things.

[Anonymous No.21931929]

>>21931901
and yet most leftists are for state transportation, schooling, redistribution, taxation, foreskin removal, healthcare...

you increase the govts power by voting for nationalization of everything and then say its late stage capitalism that is increasing the government and then you claim to be revolutionaries, suck my big nigga dick you absolute retard, may AIDS be with you and all your family, be for real baizuo

[Anonymous No.21931937]

>>21931926
No one cares retard

[Anonymous No.21931967]

>>21927113
This is retarded and so was freud, anything living avoids pain because it's unpleasant, being dead is also a better state of being provided you can endure the pain required to get there. Everything in this paragraph completely dismisses the avoidance of pain as a motivator.

[Anonymous No.21931981]

>>21931967
>anything living avoids pain because it's unpleasant,
>>21927113
>whose function is to assure that the organism shall follow its path to death,
>to maintain its own existence in the face of every obstacle
>the organism wants to die only in its own way

>Everything in this paragraph completely dismisses the avoidance of pain as a motivator.
Everything in that paragraph questions the origins of that motivator

[Anonymous No.21931986]

>>21931967
This is not true, predators pain for gain

[Anonymous No.21931990]

>>21931981
>Everything in that paragraph questions the origins of that motivator
yes because the author was fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.21931992]

>>21931926
> Community takes care of the invalids and free of charge
Community takes care of EVERYONE free of charge. Don’t be a traitor to the revolution

[Anonymous No.21931998]

>>21931990
>the avoidance of pain as a motivator... err... it's just is, mkay?
No, u.

[Anonymous No.21932001]

>>21931998
>No, u.
There you go avoiding pain again.

[Anonymous No.21932044]

>>21932001
For the last time: the "avoidance of pain" explanation is NOT denied, retard.
What the paragraph stresses, is the conditions BEHIND your "avoidance of pain" explanation.

Ultimate vs proximate causes. Do you comprehend what you are being told even? Teleology, long-term positive feedback loop, evolutionary dynamics, cybernetics, Complexity Theory, no? Too deep for you?

[Anonymous No.21932057]

>>21931929
>Liberals are not leftists
Learn to read.

[Anonymous No.21932065]

>>21931992
Community also needs some labor. But there’s plentiful hands and less capitalist supporting kinds of jobs. Work wouldn’t be such a burden, and occasional “lazy” person won’t suffer (or shouldn’t) much ridicule.

[Anonymous No.21932083]

come on, comrades. lets show these capitalist pigs how much better socialism is.

i will lay around all day doing nothing except fucking women and enjoying myself, and you guys can do your part by feeding me and providing for all my comfort. this will make those pigs envy us and we will topple the capitalist exploitation.

[Anonymous No.21932093]

>>21924936
>Towards a New Socialism
Because the Socialism they've been using hasn't worked yet...

[Anonymous No.21932137]

>>21932093
Yeah. Marxism and the statist variety they used was too regimented and centralized. Both western and eastern capitalism are corrupt though. One just had no real desire to branch out in a “neocolonialist” paths.
And they suffered a lack of innovation in computers, so yeah. Read the book.
The issue is complex

[Anonymous No.21932147]

>>21932093
You know how evolution works: keep adjusting until it finally goes through bottleneck. That's how we got cheetah species, all descended from one last surviving pair ~12 000 years ago

[Anonymous No.21932282]

>>21932137
No one cares retard.
>>21932147
No one cares retard.

[Anonymous No.21932489]

>>21932282
>sentence fragments

[Anonymous No.21932822]

>>21926060
yes, yes...

[Anonymous No.21932834]

>>21926060
>Communism is inevitable.

You people have been saying this shit for 200 years. Well? We're waiting. We've BEEN waiting.

[Anonymous No.21932838]

>>21932834
They dont even know what "communism" is supposed to be. They can only explain it in the vaguest terms or it starts to sound ludicrous "uh yeah people will just volunteer to be coal miners even if they dont have to". The entire thing is just a reminder that humans are a joke

[Anonymous No.21933201]

>>21932834
>>21932838
We do. It’s just that Marxiods want to go through a period of, …well, China/North Korea
>vaguest terms
>HEY, WHY CANT YOU PREDICT YOUR DREAMED OF FUTURE BETTER THAN, SAY A FILM PRODUCTION CAN PREDICT
I have painted a fair enough picture on several occasions. But it’s pretty hard to predict the future, you know? Yeah, you know damn well.
>no one will get the coal anymore! We’ll have take slaves again!
1. Wrong. 2. Many will find ways to do without. Coal consumption will certainly go down.
You remind me of how much of a joke you are.

[Anonymous No.21933248]

>>21933201
>Coal consumption will certainly go down.
Is it going down to zero? If not who is mining it? Who is going to clean public toilets and the thousand other unpleasant tasks that need to occur?

[Anonymous No.21933760]

Profits above people sounds a stupid idea in the long run to be honest. Don't know how someone can defend this view, must be pretty retarded to be honest

[Anonymous No.21934180]

>>21933248
>Is it going down to zero?
Why would it?
>If not who is mining it?
Miners
>Who is going to clean public toilets and the thousand other unpleasant tasks that need to occur?
Workers.

>>21933760
They sure are.

[Anonymous No.21934425]

>>21932057
What is the definition of “liberal” and of “lefty”? Americans seem to mix the two, and blur its definition.

[Anonymous No.21935066]

>>21934425
Read about the French Revolution, anon. Then subsequent history of Europe, and notice the emergence of the socialist and their ideas compared to the “liberal”, which like the shorthand term “leftist” is malleable.

The leftist movement is about how best to live once liberated from monarchy and church control. That power dynamic has unfortunately passed to the “middle class” and their priests casts in science and economics. The goal remains elusive, but we still want it, we desire to return to it, that freedom
You aren’t American if you side with fascism and the other shades of rightwing

[Anonymous No.21935098]

>>21935066
I know this; the thing is when Americans use the term “liberal” they usually refer to “leftist” , which is confusing and does not make any sense.

[Anonymous No.21935106]

>>21924936
Why are there so many leftards in /lit/? Is reading cope for losers?

[Anonymous No.21935113]

>>21935098
Confusion and delusion is used to control the narrative. Biden, Obama, all the rest rest, are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

[Anonymous No.21935136]

>>21935106
You’re lost. Go back to where you came from

[Anonymous No.21935138]

>>21935066
True Americans practice at the range for the day it's time to kill Communists. The French Revolution was good because it produced Napoleon.

[Anonymous No.21935142]

>>21924936
>cock shot

[Anonymous No.21935156]

>>21935138
Communism = community. Community over nationalist fervor. They talk of patriotism out one side of their mouths and hate on the government and taxes. Plainly they’d prefer anarcho-communism if only they’d understand that is what they want. The Cold War propaganda machine (the pentagon and the MSM) is still pressing them hard of course.

You on the other hand, worship power. You aren’t American. You’re some of that Old World toady mindset. More of your kind in the DNC voter oddly enough. They wrap themselves in freedom to. Freedom to exploit, freedom go topless, to transition, etc. they’ll have their Napoleon just as quick as you.
I hate your type.

[Anonymous No.21935187]

>>21935156
Community is gay. Equality always pulls down to the lowest common denominator. The American dreams of conquest, private ownership of territory, individual glory, expansion, literally reaching for the stars like Musk. The Communist dreams of kneecapping the productive visionaries so it can create more obese parasitic low lifes. The CIA like today was frequently a left wing weapon that fermented racial and "worker" movements in European colonies where they didn't previously exist.

[Anonymous No.21935216]

>>21935156
>Communism = community.
community = communitarianism

[Anonymous No.21935226]

>>21934180
>workers
And who decides who has to clean toilets and who gets to have a nice prestigious job

[Anonymous No.21935250]

>>21935187
>Equality always pulls down to the lowest common denominator.
>The American dreams of
>literally reaching for the stars like Musk
Nevertheless, your 'self' is intersubjective in its nature. You are what is mirrored from others. And if others live in shit (and/or are shit), that doesn't bespeak of a healthy cognitive ecology able to produce great people.

>The American dreams of
>private ownership of territory, individual glory
Which results in a fucking disaster, because 0 group planning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr48ZxlYxOs

[Anonymous No.21935260]

>>21935187
Bankers’ ass licking tard. You would probably beg Musk to fuck you in the ass for free.

[Anonymous No.21935264]

>>21924936
debunked by marx and mises

[Anonymous No.21935271]

>>21935264
References , otherwise bullshit.

[Anonymous No.21935284]

>>21935260
Government dependent low life. I have financial people in my family, if you ever met them you'd realise how inferior you are. In my country a middle class worker is paying more than half their income to government parasites. That means without taxation their income would double. This is more being stolen from their labour than could possibly be taken from them by a boss through profit - which is a stupid fucking concept which isn't real.

[Anonymous No.21935320]

>>21935284
>That means without taxation their income would double.
Without taxation no one would bother with incomes.
Money was invented by Ancient Greeks, so that one could support troops by exchanging goods for useless tokens, 'no questions asked'. Without government, the system transforms into a 'human economy' reputation system with multiple exchange spheres, where your caste and honor affect the price.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_anthropology#Special_and_general_purpose_of_money

[Anonymous No.21935337]

>>21935320
Money is used so you don't have to exchange shoes for potatos you fucking leftist retard. For much of history the useless token was literally gold. America had 0% inflation for around 150 years until it broke of the gold standard.

[Anonymous No.21935377]

>>21926060
Communism is not the answer, nor is socialism.

Don't mix that up with strong communities with individuals that own their own property, and live well without needing to share. >>21935277 provides a better solution of close-knit communities combined with small businesses as the future. Communes never work, they always lead to people becoming parasites and stealing from what everyone share, aka, freeloaders, not to mention the lack of freedom and independence to make your own choices. Everybody should own their own stuff, and contribute their own work to their own projects, some of which could be collaborative for keeping the community together, but you are correct in that real people in local communities, need to have it way easier, and not be worked so hard all the time. If people tended to their own, grew their own food, took care of their own families, and stayed out of other people's communities or business, then all would be well. It's still possible to do that, even in today's world, it's just there's a lot of loops to jump through with how many regulations and government policies pollute the simplicity of owning property, and and just about anything else.

Also, Revolting and Rebelling never solves anything, that is always destructive in nature.

>>21924936
>Look at my red book, I'm such a commie, look how cool I am
Nobody cares Commie.

[Anonymous No.21935385]

>>21935337
>Money is used so you don't have to exchange shoes for potatos
'Money' is an overloaded term. Barter never happened, yet metal coins were invented at some point.

>For much of history the useless token was literally gold
For antiquity (because the Greeks and Romans needed a feedback mechanism for troops to self-supply via salary), and in the period after the Middle Ages.
For much of history, people relied on virtual credit and the forgiving of debts (with no mechanism to extract those debts forcefully). The peasants / tribal moieties would try to get indebted to each other, for the same reason you never completely repay debts to your parents - any such request would be seen as an insult.

That's why usury is so universally hated, it's the transformation of human tribal group bonding mechanism into forceful enslavement.

[Anonymous No.21935387]

>>21935337
>America had 0% inflation for around 150 years until it broke of the gold standard.
Concerning the nature of inflation, I have bad news for you.

[Anonymous No.21935392]

>>21935377
Government regulation is the main thing that stops people being able to form whatever communities they like in most places of the globe. Look at the Amish. Anyone is free to live like that and a lot of people would have a much happier life by doing that. Stop blaming your unhappiness on capitalism. In America, for now, you can easily go buy a large patch of land and start a farm. This is, btw, what a lot of the WEF farming regulation stuff is about - they don't want people free to live without government parasites. Heil America, abolish the income tax and any regulations on ordinary people and their farms.

[Anonymous No.21935407]

>>21935385
Graeber was a babbling retard. Rest in piss. Inflation is caused by increasing the money supply. Inflation is going crazy now because in the UK as an example they printed, to pay for covid spending, such that the number of pounds in existance doubled. Inflation will continue until the pound is worth half what it was before this episode.

[Anonymous No.21935440]

>>21935407
>Inflation is caused by increasing the money supply
You've been given a historical example as the direct contradiction of this. If you do not accept, then you automatically acknowledge that economics is a pseudo-science with no way to falsify its claims. Therefore, astrology.

>Inflation is caused by increasing the money supply. Inflation is going crazy now because
https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2021/11/24/the-truth-about-inflation/

Inflation is caused, because some groups of people believe that if they raise their price, others will just have to deal with it. It's a political power grab claim, not some mechanical law of nature that the homo economicus 'atoms' must follow.

>Graeber was a babbling retard. Rest in piss.
And you are a dumb indoctrinated cultist.

[Anonymous No.21935451]

>>21935392
I think you're very confused, I agree with you. The Amish are a perfect example of what I am talking about. They're self-sufficient, take care of their own, have their own traditions, they stay very close knit, they are a great community.

But at the same time, Most people are not as religious as the Amish or the Muslims, but can still make their own way.

I am also well aware of the World Economic Forum and their evil intensions. Those bastards can go fuck themselves, Schwab included. They're not God.

[Anonymous No.21935462]

>>21935440
>The corporations suddenly all decided to charge more at the same time for everything.
>Nothing caused this
>Money printing on a unprecedented scale that happened at the same time had nothing to do with it
>Everyone in Zimbabwe became trillionaires because African merchants got more greedy and they profited immensely from this

So retarded. You are wasting your life hunched over left wing tomes that are wrong about everything to cope with how unsuccessful you are. Keep hoping for the revolution that will finally give you the respect you deserve.

[Anonymous No.21935464]

>>21935451
I wasn't disagreeing with you sorry for not making that clear. My muh capitalism point was addressed to the losers of the thread.

[Anonymous No.21935477]

>>21935462
>>The corporations suddenly all decided to charge more at the same time for everything.
Except they never do that at the same retard. Read the link >>21935440 you've been provided, clown.

"Unfortunately, this thinking falls apart on further inspection. The problem is that it treats inflation as a uniform rise in prices. That’s theoretically convenient, but empirically false. In the real world, inflation is wildly divergent. At the same time that the price of apples rises by 5%, the price of cars could grow by 50%, and the price of clothing might fall by 20%."

>>Everyone in Zimbabwe
Foreign bank debts in dollars, imbecile. It's the same situation, as the Tudor period England >>21935387 - shortage of acceptable currency, and a strong forceful Mr Moneybags, willing to beat the shit out of you and cut your kidneys out.

[Anonymous No.21935479]

>>21935477
>at the same time, retard
typo

[Anonymous No.21935508]

>>21935464
Fair enough. Cheers mate.

[Anonymous No.21935600]

>>21935508
kek

[Anonymous No.21935620]

>>21935216
I don’t care what you want to call it, that’s what communism is supposed to be. Using in the name of a political party is a disgrace worse then the anti-democracy Democratic Party

>>21935187
1. You misunderstand equality.
2. That is not the American dream.
3. You invoke Sovietism not communism there.
4. Obesity is a capitalist innovation.
5. The secret service are not in favor of people seizing control , therefore not leftwing.

[Anonymous No.21935735]

>>21935620
The people never have control. An organised minority always rules over everyone else. Nothing else has ever existed and nothing else ever will. By that definition no society will ever be left. Democracy the rule of all exists for brief flashes of time, for instance during a plebicite. It is a horrible way of governing and causes serious division and chaos. It can be a useful weapon for some of the ruling class to use when things are a mess or they are simply trying to change the regime/take control.

Yeah a liberal capitalist society will have more obesity than a communist/fascist country that forces people to remain fit. However, cutting off welfare and allowing people to freely discriminate against fatties if they want to will severly reduce the rates. This would also be more truely liberal/capitalist. Removing food regulations would probably help too.

[Anonymous No.21935822]

>>21935735
The people have had control. Nowadays they quite small bands, bits of gravel on your golden floors, but once it was a natural path of dirt, dust and pebbles.

An organization isn’t a state, isn’t a cult-religion, isn’t World Bank. The self conserved communities of the past ruled themselves longer, and can be said to rule themselves whenever the government agent isn’t around writing up tickets or reading your private emails. Certainly the criminal child runs anarchist as soon as he learns the art of his legs.

>Nothing else has ever. Nothing else will ever
George Romaro had your type pegged decades ago.

>yea, I admit it. I am overweight
…but can you be saved from your zombie-hood?
Work on that, lest ye be shotgunned down

[Anonymous No.21935827]

>>21935822
Is English your first language?

[Anonymous No.21935850]

>>21935827
Advancedly

[Anonymous No.21935863]

>>21935822
>they’re* in*quite small bands,
> isn’t a* World Bank

Amended