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/lit/ - Literature

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21447004 No.21447004 [Reply] [Original]

If antinatalists argue that bringing life into the world is moral, doesn't that mean they must come to the conclusion that murder is moral too?

>> No.21447011

>>21447004
Anti-natalists and nihilists are the most life-affirming tards there are.
Obviously killing someone ends their suffering immediately(and the suffering of any people they may have given birth to in the future) but they come up with various copes to resist that.

>> No.21447012

>>21447004
I do not wish to have been born but I also do not wish to be shot.

>> No.21447013
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21447013

yup

>> No.21447018

>>21447012
whats the difference between being born and being dead? if we accept the premise of antinatalism, arent both preferable to life?

>> No.21447021

>>21447018
*unborn

>> No.21447026

>>21447018
At the point of not being born I do not have a nervous system or consciousness. I cannot give consent, cannot feel and process pain, nor can I truly have an opinion about anything. At the time of getting shot, all those things come into play. I really would prefer not to be shot. It sounds painful.

>> No.21447034

>>21447026
>At the point of not being born I do not have a nervous system or consciousness. I cannot give consent, cannot feel and process pain, nor can I truly have an opinion about anything

no different than being dead

>At the time of getting shot, all those things come into play. I really would prefer not to be shot. It sounds painful.

it wont matter to you when you are dead

>> No.21447035

>>21447021
>*unborn
Ah so that's who faps to all that unbirthing art. Antinatalists. Now I understand.

>> No.21447043

>>21447034
Yes, but it would matter right before, during, and post the point of getting shot. You’re being reductive when not taking temporal context into consideration. You’re simply trying to strawman an argument without putting any effort into understanding it. This is a bad shitpost and you should feel bad.

>> No.21447044

>>21447026
You are wrong. I have been shot to death. Three times. It feels like a quick punch and then it's over.

>> No.21447050

>>21447043
what if the murder was quick and painless?

>> No.21447055

>>21447043
>but it would matter right before, during, and post the point of getting shot.

which doesn't matter when you are dead

>> No.21447059

>>21447044
Oh okay.
>>21447050
Social context at that point. Someone who wished to not participate in life would already kill themselves because the drive to end the suffering of life is stronger than the urge to not kill yourself. Personally, I would cause more suffering if I died than if I were alive. So even if it was quick and painless I wouldn’t want it. Maybe if you killed the whole human race at the same time, sure.

>> No.21447064

>>21447055
But it matters the moments before I’m dead.

>> No.21447072

>>21447064
"moments before" is irrelevant, to you it would be no different than never being born

>> No.21447081

>>21447059
>. Someone who wished to not participate in life would already kill themselves

so you wish to participate in life?

>> No.21447089

>>21447072
By implication the entire lifespan before death is irrelevant. Which isn’t true once someone is thrust into the world and can experience the human condition.

>> No.21447101

>>21447089
"the past" is literally irrelevant once you are dead. its a non issue. you arent going to be thinking "god that was awful that time that happened"

the problem is that you dont actually want nonexistence

>> No.21447108 [DELETED] 

>>21447004
antinatalism is a front for misanthropy and eventual attempts of omni-genocide

>> No.21447114

>>21447101
Right, I don’t currently want non existence because I exist. But theoretically if I could make the decision not to exist before I exist I would choose not to exist, but I can’t make the choice to not exist until I exist and am hardwired to avoid stopping existing as I exist, which is fundamentally different that not existing before the no existing/existing moment.

>> No.21447115

antinatalism is a front for misanthropy and eventual attempts of omni-genocide, it deserves to be called out now before it can mutate into another massively violent ism at some point in the future

>> No.21447122

>>21447114
>Right, I don’t currently want non existence because I exist

why?

>> No.21447130

>>21447114
You can literally return yourself to a state that is identical to non exorbitance whenever you want, you just dont because you want to exist.

>> No.21447131

>>21447004
antinatalism is retarded. like if you accepted it and haven't killed yourself already you're fucking phoney

>> No.21447148

>>21447130
I’m in too deep. Like falling into the pool.

>> No.21447154

>>21447148
you dont actually think non existence is preferable, and this is all just a LARP on your part

>> No.21447159

>>21447154
If the removal of my life wouldn’t cause a net loss, then id probably shoot myself.

>> No.21447167

>>21447059
>Someone who wished to not participate in life would already kill themselves

So you want to participate in life, but you want to prevent others from doing so?

>> No.21447170

>>21447167
No, it's my moral duty to stay around to convince others to kill themselves

>> No.21447174

>>21447159
you losing your life isn't going to cause a net loss on the world, thats just what you tell yourself because you dont actually want death, you want something else.

>> No.21447177

>>21447167
Others don’t exist yet.

>> No.21447189

>>21447177
and you want to prevent them from existing

>> No.21447192

>>21447189
Yes. But I wouldn’t phrase it like that because they don’t exist yet so we can’t specify the specific.

>> No.21447210

>>21447004
nah, because they think it's wrong to purposefully introduce more evil

>> No.21447215

>>21447192
how could you not phrase it that way? if there was no "them" to consider you wouldn't be an antinatalist. the "them" is something that inherently has to be considered because your entire ideology involves making a choice on "their" behalf. the wrong choice, I might add, since the overwhelmingly vast majority of people choose life. not only are you taking away the opportunity to chose from them, you are making the choice for them that they virtually certainly would not make themselves.

antinatalism is inherently in the wrong.

>> No.21447221

>>21447215
No one makes the choice of being born. I never asked for this.

>> No.21447235

>>21447026
how about i shoot you in your sleep? you won't even have time to feel it. you'll just simply cease to exist

>> No.21447241

>>21447221
of course, a choice is being made without consent either way. the problem is that antinatalists are depriving "them" from making the choice later by making the choice for them, and more specificallu, the choice that they almost certainly would not pick.

out of the two possible options, the antinatalist is inherently in the wrong and natialists are inherently in the right. if you dont want to live you dont have to, but most people do, and your ultimate goal is nothing less than to take that from them.

>> No.21448132

>>21447012
>if I do not wish to have been born, then having a family is objectively WRONG
>if I do not wish to be murdered, then murder is WRONG
>it's all about ME
classic 21st century narcissism

>> No.21448136

>>21447026
there are ways to die completely painlessly. do it.

>> No.21448147

>>21447018
By killing oneself, one does not delete all the suffering that has been, nor prevents all the future suffering (of others around you, because of you). By not being born, you just never existed. Or something like that, idk, I'm not a degenerate anti natalist

>> No.21448160

>>21447004
I'm starting to feel insane from having to state again and again that there is a fundamental difference between being born and dying. How is this not obvious? How do you function with such gaps in your reasoning ability?

>> No.21448299

Anti-Natalism is completely ridiculous. They have some ideas I can understand but they obsess too much over suffering, and hating children is just retarded. Yes we are all born and we all suffer, but anti Natalie’s are too negative even for me. Liggoti unironically talks about mass species suicide, and AN can easily lead retards down a path of genocide and bringing guns to their local malls. It’s too anti-life and faggy for me. Some of these people really delude themselves into thinking everyone is just as sick as they are and make the decision for everyone else that they ought to not want to be alive. They remind me of other deluders. They betray they themselves. They are botched, they are weak, they hate their existence. Why this should apply to anyone else I don’t know.

Yes though OP, this is in part why you get people like Lanza that think they’re saving a bunch of children when they shoot them dead. But the reality is that the rationalization comes after the drives, so even in his case, he wanted to kill and then formed his ideology around it to rationalize it to himself. Most AN’s probably don’t want to kill they just dislike their existence. But still it proves a good little excuse for some which is why I ultimately don’t like it in general.

>> No.21448526

>>21447004
Let me just say what I always say:
Anti-natalism is revealed as the psyop it is once you notice it's only ever directed at white people.

>> No.21448532

>>21448299
based

>> No.21448547

>>21448526
Right blacks aren’t anti-natalist at all with their shit tons of abortion

>> No.21448555

>>21447004
the entirety of antinatalism is an exercise in mental gymnastics to show why human existence is bad while also disavowing murder, because endorsing murder would be bad for sales
sometimes they disavow suicide too, for the same reason

>> No.21448581

>>21447044
I've been shot to death four times and can confirm it's the most horrific pain one can experience, especially if it's a failed suicide attempt—and they all fail to some degree as to delay death—which will make one wish never to have been born.

>> No.21448596

>>21447004
No. They might argue there is a distinction between the two where one involves merely prevention of life and the other the cessation of it.

>> No.21448607

>>21447026
>I really would prefer not to be shot. It sounds painful.
A shot in the head it's not

>> No.21448683
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21448683

>If Daisy's parents had never existed or had been anti-natalists.
>Daisy would never have existed.
Anti-natalists are killjoys, natalism is keyed

>> No.21449831

>>21448132
That’s just morality, anon.

>> No.21449881

>>21448299
You see, this is kinda how I feel about natalism. They have some ideas I can understand (comfort, kin, continued survival), but it also reads retards down the path of procreation (arguably the source of all “evil”). Most of these people actually delude themselves into thinking that that everyone’ is just as sick as they are, and make the decision for everyone else that they want to be alive. Forced to confront their limited existence and they would fall into despair, so instead the sunk cost fallacy kicks in and a huge, elaborate cope is erected in the form of forcing others to deal with their hopeless fate. And it’s patently clear why they think this should apply to others, because someone hanging themselves from the hopelessness of it is a stark reminder of the reality they fight so hard to ignore.

>> No.21451310

>>21448683
Kill youself pedo

>> No.21451321

>>21447012
>I also do not wish to be shot
Be careful what you wish for, better to be shot than to be slowly tortured to death :)

>> No.21451764

Why do you go through all this trouble to argue with antinatalists? Just breed. My grandparents never lost a minute pondering about the morality of bringing new life into this world. They just popped out the kids when they were due.
I think you devote all this time trying to refute antinatalism because you can actually see its merits: it's evident that at least some people shouldn't breed because of the abhorrent conditions to which they would necessarily subject their kids. But when you dig deeper, you recognize that the human condition spares no one. The only way to not subject your kid - that you probably love so much - from the mostly pointless sufferings and indignities of life is to never have them. Having kids thus starts to seem like a narcissistic act: YOU want to see your spitting image; YOU want to experience the joy of seeing your child grow up; YOU want to give inconditional love; YOU want to mature and "care about something other than myself"; YOU want to find meaning for your life at the expense of the suffering of another life that too lacks for herself meaning.

So do one of the two: stop coping and just raw-dog some slag and wait 9 months or stop coping and don't bring new life to suffer here.

>> No.21451948
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21451948

>>21447026
>I really would prefer not to be shot. It sounds painful.
Having to endure decades of additional suffering living in this world is a lot more painful overall than getting shot.

>> No.21451976

>>21451948
So, according to this, the best way to commit suicide is by explosives? And where the hell do I get that?

>> No.21452598

antinatalism is just cowardice by another name. only a cowardly little worm fixates that much on suffering to the point where fear and aversion to it defines them. behind every antinatalist persona you see on the internet you can be damn sure theres an IRL emasculated numale behind it

>> No.21452782

Antinatalists are Hedonists but really fucking bad at it.

>> No.21453144

>>21451948
How did they get measurements of agony?

>> No.21453152 [DELETED] 

>>21451948
Also explosives seems best overall.

>> No.21453271

>>21447013
I get this sense that these are all people from good surroundings reaching their first instances of discomfort. This surprising discomfort causes them to panic and fear anything that isn't vidya and lemonade so hard they create entire philosophies to "resist suffering". As if life would or could ever be anything but suffering.

>> No.21453288

>>21451976
Some household stuff is good enough to make some small explosives but you're more likely to blow yourself up than make something that works. The ready availability of highly volatile chemicals is mind boggling.

>> No.21453290

>>21453288
>>21451976
I mean blow yourself up in the not fun way of losing both your hands. Don't make explosives.