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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.2129667 [Reply] [Original]

Were Jesus, Siddhartha and Muhammed all proto-Marxists?

Each of them seemed to care very deeply about class differences and about the clash between rich and poor.

Even though Marx rejected religion, one can still see a lot of parallels in his writing with the way Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed saw class division. The only difference was the solution: Jesus and Buddha advocated escape, while Mohammed advocated charity. Marx advocated outright rebellion.

While the solutions are different, the problem they identified and the issues it raises are the same.

>> No.2129678

>Were Jesus, Siddhartha and Muhammed all proto-Marxists?

No, they were not.

>While the solutions are different, the problem they identified and the issues it raises are the same.

No it's not (except, some might say, in the sense that all philosophers could be dealing with the same basic and fundamental human issues and experiences)

There's a gulf of a thousand years or more, and a complete difference in intellectual climate and approach, between them. To compare them this way is facile; to equate them shows a lack of understanding of revealed religion, of Buddhism, and of Marxism and modern political thought generally.

>> No.2129684

yeah sure I remember reading about alienation, the dialectic, reification and how consciousness is socially and historically conditioned, and how ideology is false consciosus, in all those guys that's totally something that they came up with way before marx and of course that's all marxism is about right, that's all every theorist has ever conceived in marxism, class differences

>> No.2129691

>>2129684
the deep one!!! i choose to believe of course that by 'deep' we mean underseas and by 'edgy' we mean a characteristic of the body... some bizarre undersea abomination...

>> No.2129692

>>2129684

The fat housewife with an English degree returns!

>> No.2129694

class differences

>> No.2129736

>>2129684

You seriously think alienation didn't inspire Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed to a great extent? I mean, alienation is practically the main thread running through the narrative of Siddhartha's life.

>> No.2129740

>>2129736
no its not

seriously, does it not bother you at all that you're conflating a noted materialist with two spiritual leaders and a mystic/idealistic philosophical figure?

>> No.2129773

>you're conflating a noted materialist with two spiritual leaders and a mystic/idealistic philosophical figure?
but hey, they all cared about class differences (marxism) right?

>> No.2129910

I don't get it from where do you get it that Budha and Jesus have anything to say about wealth divisions. Khoran, have some social norms in later parts, but like sayings of Budha and Jesus have nothing to do with wealth specifically. They all only distance themselves from it.

>> No.2130046
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>>2129910

The only time Jesus ever got pissed off was at the money lenders in the temple market.

>> No.2130050

i actually read an article online somewhere last year about the shocking similarities between the ideologies of Jesus of Nazareth and Karl Marx

>> No.2130086

>>2129910
>Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
>Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
>Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Certainly ideas of class consciousness are present in the New Testament. I'm not sure I'd describe them as proto-Marxist, seeing as how that's about the only similarity between the two. I mean, a moment later you get:
>Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth
>but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
>And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
>And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Doesn't exactly sound like
>The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution.

>> No.2130091

>>2130050
They're only shocking if you're an idiot and believe in the prosperity gospel or something. Fuck Joel Osteen for real.

>> No.2130116

Karl Marx = extreme materialism
Spirtual figues = antimaterialism
1/10 troll

>> No.2130134
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filthy altruists, all of them

>> No.2130140

>while Mohammed advocated charity

Income and property taxes are supposed to be used to ensure that the basic needs of the poor, elderly, and disabled were met. That and the fact that the wealthy are generally expected to handle a larger share of the tax burden represent the extent of wealth redistribution in Islam. Suffice it to say that there wouldn't be such an enormous corpus of jurisprudence dealing with issues like trade, inheritance, monetary policy, banking and finance, etc. if we were supposed to abolish private property. The Prophet (s.) even told us that the best sort of earning is "the labor of a man's own hand and every pious sale."

>> No.2130143

>>2130140
>were met

*are

herp

>> No.2130176
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There's a reason many modern Marxists are devoted Christians (Terry Eagleton comes to mind, but there are others). Marxism shares the determinism of Christianity and follows much of the same narrative. They aren't identical of course, but still quite close. Close enough that Camus spoke (disapprovingly) of Marxism as Christianity with communism and man pasted over God and the Eternal Kingdom. The actions of the original disciples after the death of Jesus come to mind as well.

>> No.2130181 [DELETED] 

HEY NIGGERS
GOOGLE
LIBERATION THEOLOGY

>> No.2130200
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Liberation theology was heavily influenced by Marxism as well, and there are many who view liberation theology as closer to the original message of the Bible.
Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, a Companion to the Prophet (PBUH), is also viewed by many as the first Islamic socialist. Sheikh Bedreddin was a Sufi and a Turkish revolutionary who led a revolt against the Ottomans in order to nationalize and equally distribute land.
Marxist and socialist thought often combine with many elements of religion, but when a religion's main purpose is spiritual rather than materialistic, the comparisons can only go so far.

>> No.2130216

>>2130200
There is no reason spirituality and materiality must be separate.

You're too brainwashed by Western Christianity.

>> No.2130219

>>2130216
there is a very good reason spirituality in a religious sense and materialism in a philosophical sense (in the way marx uses it) must be separate, bro.

>> No.2130222

>>2130219
Plenty of religions believe that matter is a spiritual essence. You're very close minded and dumb.

>> No.2130238

>>2130222
alright bro, let me rephrase that. any religion which believes in a supernatural god - in fact any non-pantheistic religion - is necessarily going to be opposed to materialism. sorry i wasn't specific enough bro, my statement was only really true for the most popular and influential religions in world history.