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/lit/ - Literature

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21231215 No.21231215 [Reply] [Original]

Are there any books that approach Gnostic metaphysics from a Nietzschean point of view? As in playing with the idea of the material world being the creation of an illegitimate demiurge, but facing that reality as an opportunity to exert your true immaterial will?

>> No.21231216
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21231216

> “Are there any books that approach Gnostic metaphysics from a Nietzschean point of view? As in playing with the idea of the material world being the creation of an illegitimate demiurge, but facing that reality as an opportunity to exert your true immaterial will?”

>> No.21231217

>>21231216
?

>> No.21231222

>>21231217
He's saying that's the sort of trite esotericism that a 'male who wants to be known as a female' would be interested in.

>> No.21231227

>>21231222
How do you figure? Tranny motivations never seem that deep at all. If anything a chud-wojak would have been more apt

>> No.21231228

>>21231215
Have you even read any of the stuff you want to needlessly combine? This reads like a stupid AI prompt

>> No.21231233

>>21231227
Deep enough for your dilator?

>> No.21231234

>>21231228
Most literature is needless, what's your point?

>> No.21231243

>>21231234
If you read Nietzsche why would you be worried that there is an illegitimate demiurge? What does that even mean in the context of Nietzsche? That you were assigned the wrong gender and the real one comes from the true God, which you are going to "will" yourself towards because Nietzsche uses the word "will"?

>> No.21231268

>>21231243
I've read his works in both an academic setting and on my own. Within gnosticism there is still a disconnect between reality and whatever the ultimate creator would be. Gnostics just insert a middleman as an excuse for very life denying values, looking at the extreme end at sects like the Cathars and Bologomils. And if you talk to any contemporary Gnostics they tend to use it as a justification for things like anti-natalism and genuine misanthropy and nihilism. Maybe my OP was worded poorly, but I'm interested if there were Gnostic writers/sects who had a similar metaphysical view but came to the opposite conclusions. I don't know why your mind automatically jumps to troons

>> No.21231278

>>21231216
fpbp
shit thread

>> No.21231304

>>21231243
>If you read Nietzsche why would you be worried that there is an illegitimate demiurge?
Also this is a very stupid question unless you're a retard who completely reshapes his beliefs every time he reads a new idea.

>> No.21231305

>>21231268
It's not gnosticism if it's not gnosticism

>> No.21231310

>>21231304
You mean like OP?

>> No.21231326

>>21231310
No I mean like the poster I replied to who started melting down about trannies because he read Nietzsche last week and can't compute the idea of any other ideas until the next flavor of the month comes up

>> No.21231343

>>21231305
I don't know what else you would call this sort of cosmological belief in world where there is a hidden God and a distinct, flawed material world not of his direct creation.

>> No.21231345

>>21231326
Well what does Nietzsche have to do with gnosticism either? Gnosticism and gender reassignment have far more in common—they blame the false doctor or craftsman for having made them. For Nietzsche there is no such regulating pseudo-deity

>> No.21231349

>>21231343
That's not Nietzsche. You're just mixing things together aimlessly. What if there were a chimpanzee with green hair and a beak?

>> No.21231352

>>21231305
>he still believes in the law of non-contradiction
>he doesn't realize that Nietzsche is simultaneously an anti-Gnostic Gnostic.

>> No.21231353

>>21231345
I was referencing Nietzsche in terms of his appraisal of values. Gnosticism almost always embodies the most extreme aspects of asceticism and life denial, but it doesn't seem apparent to me that it has to.

>>21231349
Please read the post I replied to in order to follow what's actually being talked about.

>> No.21231357

>>21231353
>>21231345
Gnosticism in practices, I should say, almost always embodies the extreme aspects of life denial. Their metaphysical view of the world, as a material world separate and ultimately not created by God, doesn't seem to me to necessarily have to imply that. My question is if there have been any writers who took this traditional Gnostic view of the universe but then came to the conclusion of values that one should follow in life that aren't incredibly life denying.

>> No.21231367

>>21231345
>>21231353
>>21231357
To use your example, I'm asking if there were any Gnostics who held a cosmological belief in a "false doctor" so to speak, but answered the situation along the lines of Nietzsche's parable about the demon

>> No.21231370

>>21231353
>doesn't seem apparent to me that it has to
The entire premise is that the world is a bad fake, yes? If you don't like that don't believe it. No reason to believe it anyway

>> No.21231388

>>21231370
But you're stuck in it regardless, so you have to do something. This is why Gnostic sects don't just say "the world is imperfect and you're in it, do whatever you want". They say "the world is imperfect and you're in it, follow these values while you're in it". But every time, those values are incredibly life denying. They never embraced the fact of the matter as they saw it, that they were stuck in this material world regardless. Was there not a single Gnostic who said "the world is imperfect and you're in it, embrace it"?

>> No.21231391

>>21231367
The idea of a demiurge is not the exclusive province of a world-denying gnosticism. In Platonism there is no "evil" associated with the craftsman. So if you want a "gnosticism" without being gnosticism, insofar as a demiurge is retained, that's Plato/Plotinus/Proclus

>> No.21231398

>>21231391
I haven't read Plotinus or Proclus yet, I'll look into them. Thanks.

>> No.21231406

>>21231388
So you're asking in the history of gnosticism, where are all the books from their version of satanists?

I'm going to guess they were burned.

>> No.21231413

>>21231406
Yeah you'd really have to dig into early Christian literature I would guess. Some writers may have preserved quotes from their opponents like Origen did with the Roman philosopher Celsus

>> No.21231426

>>21231406
I guess yeah, that's an oddly accurate way to put it. There has to be at least something, we have some of the Gnostic texts that the Nicene Christians tried to burn

>> No.21231764

>>21231426
>>21231413
Not sure there is much point in decrying the people your enemies burned at the stake. Maybe if you wanted to smear the gnostics as early Marquis de Sade types.

>> No.21231775

If you’re already at the point of seriously looking into Gnosticism, there’s nothing that Nietzsche can teach you. Building sandcastles in the world’s graveyard will not lead to Gnosis.

>> No.21231795

>>21231215
Carpocrates of Alexandria

>> No.21232153

>>21231352
Actually high iq post. Everybody knows Nietzsche is pro-cosmic Gnostic.

>>21231357
Wrong, they deny the WORLD to affirm LIFE. All Gnosticism values Life. What you're asking is if there's a system that sees with Nietzschean clarity what this world does to life and still wants to affirm one's project in the world. The answer is: sort of. Hyperborean Gnosticism (Nimrod de Rosario, Serrano) is the closest you'll get to that Nietzschean temperament.

>> No.21232158

>>21231216
fpbp

>> No.21232163

>>21231215
Since OP asked a stupid question let me ask another. Are there any schools of gnosticism that feel sorry for the Demiurge? He seems like he tried his best but everything went wrong because he couldn't help being a fuckup. I can really jive with that.

>> No.21232174

>>21232163
Closest you'll get is the Valentinians since it isn't the Demiurge that is directly responsible for the creation of the world.

>> No.21232217
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21232217

>>21232153
What is so wrong with the world? It seems quite beautiful.

>> No.21232224

>>21231227
Ignore the resident obsessive samefag. Pay the schizo no mind, he exists of a dim emanation of twitternet.

>> No.21232226

>>21232217
Some of the most beautiful and most majestic creatures are the most lethal. This is a realm where evil (the capacity to inflict suffering) evolves hand-in-hand with beauty and complexity.

>> No.21232235

>>21232217
The art of Not Being Governed
>Axiom 1: We are dealing with a racially homogenous society