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/lit/ - Literature

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21021841 No.21021841 [Reply] [Original]

Is it very important to read all of Plato before Plotinus? I haven't read anything except the first tetralogy and the Republic yet, and some passages. I'm gonna read Plato later, I was just wondering if I can read Plotinus in the meanwhile? (since it's time sensitive)

>> No.21021888

>>21021841
From the footnotes on the gerson edition of enneads, I’ve gathered that the dialogues Plotinus uses the most are Republic, Phaedrus, Phaedo, Symposium, Philebus, Timaeus, Parmenides, and Theaetetus.

>> No.21021898

>>21021888
And you technically can read Plotinus first, but you will miss a lot. at least read Timaeus, Parmenides, and Symposium, if you’ve already read Phaedo.

>> No.21021908

>>21021888
>>21021898
Also it took me a month to read the Enneads and I skipped large parts of it. Idk how “time sensitive” this is but it will take forever even if you don’t read Plato. You would be better off just skipping parts of the enneads, maybe the dense ones like on the genera of being or the long and reduntant ones like on the problems of the soul, and replacing them with the dialogues I mentioned here>>21021888

>> No.21021927
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21021927

>>21021841
Why would you skip Plato tho? This is like asking if you can skip the party and just jump straight to cleaning up after the party.
>all these ppl suggesting just selectively reading X and Y from Plato
All of Plato's dialogs are golden. No other philosopher is anywhere near as good. Everything else is just unsuccessful attempts to recreate Plato's magic.

>> No.21021938

>>21021908
Are you guys 12 or something? What are you in such a mad rush for? Compare how many months your have in your life to how many truly great philosophers there are
>Waaah a whole MONTH!
>Better skip whatever doesn't seem important
>Gotta finish the Western canon before I turn 13
>Because telling people I read X is more important to me than actually reading X
Do yourself a favor. Buy the "Cliffs Notes". That's the wheel you're trying to invent anyway.

>> No.21021947

>>21021938
He said he was in a rush so I assume he has some kind of deadline.

>> No.21021958

>>21021947
>My boss is gonna kill me if I don't finish reading about Beauty, Being and The One in time for the quarterly revenue meeting

>> No.21021969

>>21021958
Hey I don’t assume I know other people’s reasoning for wanting to read Plotinus fast, take a chill poll bro

>> No.21021983
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21021983

>forms are real
There's no evidence of this

>> No.21022019

>>21021983
>You can't show me empirical evidence of things that transcend empirical evidence!
Damn, sounds like you just undid all of Western philosophy in one post. You must be the greatest genius since Daedalus

>> No.21022048

>>21021958
he probably just has an exam you spaz

>> No.21022068

>>21022019
Forms are more real than reality, truer than what we see. Yet you can't give any proof. Interesting

>> No.21022086

>>21021983
Forms are just ideas in your head, you can directly experience their existence. The controversy over forms is not whether they exist at all.

>> No.21022199

>>21022048
Then my original advice to buy the "Cliffs Notes" is actually unironically the best advice since you guys don't care about the actual philosophy. Or even better, just offer to suck your professor's dick in exchange for an A

>> No.21022252

>>21021841
If you're going to read Plotinus, make sure to read Thomas Taylor's translation of him.

>> No.21022288

>>21021841
Yes because Plotinus butchered Platon.

>> No.21022383

>>21022199
oh my god shut the fuck up

>> No.21022392

>>21021983
dispise anime in general but she is quite pretty, reminds me of the girl i shagged. almost uncanny resemblence, in fact
3 years ago that was... those were the days.....

>> No.21022620

>>21022019
Nah, this has been common knowledge for over a century bro.

>> No.21022626

>>21022086
No they aren't. Forms, in the platonic sense, are transcendental, and he thinks we have INSIGHT INTO them with ideas in our head.

>> No.21022673

>>21022383
What's your problem?

>> No.21022948

>>21022086
Explicitly refuted in Parmenides.

>> No.21023061

>>21022626
Forms insofar as they are how we perceive of things comes first. Forms insofar as they are actually the causes of things in the material world comes after that.

>> No.21023070

>>21022948
The whole point of the Parmenides is that you can use the method of investigation Parmenides teaches socrates to “complete” the theory of forms and thereby resolve Parmenides’s refutation of the forms. It doesn’t “refute” anything.

>> No.21023110

>>21022948
Why would I do that?

>> No.21023333

>>21023070
Did you read what I responded to? The take that the forms are thoughts or in some way in the mind are refuted in the first half.