/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20798500]

Is there a more useless "non-fiction" author to read today than Freud? Everything he said has been refuted, debunked, and BTFO. In fact, he can only be read as fiction these days and even faggots like Harold Bloom know his worth is in the aesthetic side of his writing and the modern mythologies he invented. It's interesting that something that started out as rigorous non-fiction became pure fiction.

[Anonymous No.20798587]

>>20798500
lit has an endless supply of retards like you. no, talk therapy has not been refuted. projection has not been refuted. neurosis has not been refuted. the ego-unconscious-conscience model has not been "refuted". in fact all of these have been substantiated and are so ingrained in the average person's worldview that we take them all totally for granted now.

please shut the fuck up you have no clue what you're talking about, you just hate Freud because he makes you uncomfortable. which is the same problem Freud ran into 100 years ago

[Anonymous No.20798594]

>>20798587
meds

[Anonymous No.20798598]

>>20798594
talk therapy

[Anonymous No.20798609]

>>20798594
sorry anon, but you got BTFO

[Anonymous No.20798625]

>>20798500
I like Freud even though he many be incorrect at times. He is at least entertaining. I also think the sex drive influences people more than we want to admit

[Anonymous No.20798643]

>>20798587
penis envy has been refuted, Oedipus complex has been debunked, psychosexual development has been BTFO.

seethe cope dilate, freudtranny.

[Anonymous No.20798651]

>>20798587
You know his theories can't be refuted. Stop being dishonest. "the ego-unconscious-conscience model" does not represent a significant progress from the greak and oriental myths of the government of the one self

[Anonymous No.20798652]

>>20798500
Ironically those on the internet most avidly hating Freud tend to be the one proof his points the most. I would say his ideas, while not be the sole and total factors in people's psychology, they definitely have a large roles

[Anonymous No.20798657]

>>20798652
good goy

[Anonymous No.20798671]

>>20798643
>haha these three things you didn't mention have been refuted bet you feel dumb
Why are you like this? Do you even read books?

[Anonymous No.20798679]

>>20798671
>NOOOOOOOOO T-THOSE DON'T COUNT! FREUD IS MY GOD!
kek typical fraudtranny

[Anonymous No.20798681]

>>20798500
>>20798625

[Anonymous No.20798691]

>>20798625
>I also think the sex drive influences people more than we want to admit
that's how the jews can control you, goy.

[Anonymous No.20798697]

Some thinkers are important for the ideas they threw out there, not necessarily for the “truth” of their ideas. Even though he was a bit of a nut his terminology and ideas got folded into all sorts of other fields, you can’t ignore him if you’re interested in modern cultural theory, film theory, etc.

[Anonymous No.20798698]

>>20798500
>Freud
>non-fiction

Pick one.

[Anonymous No.20798712]

>>20798698
That's how many people read him.
>>20798697
That's what I also think. The problem is not reading Freud. He was culturally influential. The problem is reading him as established science.

[Anonymous No.20798739]

>>20798697
Psychoanalysis is an absolute cancer on film theory.

[Anonymous No.20798742]

>>20798691
Nah. Your dick controls you. Everyone has followed their dick instead of their brain fairly often.

[Anonymous No.20798746]

>>20798739
is there anything that isn't absolute cancer on film theory though?

[Anonymous No.20798755]

>>20798742
That's the point. Most pornography companies are own by Jews. Just a fact.

[Anonymous No.20798756]

>>20798587
>ingrained in the average person's worldview that we take them all totally for granted now.
this doesn't mean anything

[Anonymous No.20798762]

>>20798697
typical westoid defenses of cultural idols proven invalid
>b-b-but hes IMPORTANT even though hes been refuted you gotta read it bro to discuss anything ugh

[Anonymous No.20798775]

>>20798587

[Anonymous No.20798779]

>>20798746
Semiotics and formalism. Plus any traditional historical and stylistic descriptions that don't force unrelated theories upon every film.

[Anonymous No.20798783]

>>20798755
I never said anything about porn. I’m talking everyday actions and thoughts

[Anonymous No.20798796]

>>20798783
And I never said anything about dicks. I'm saying Jews use sexuality to control you.

[Anonymous No.20798806]

>>20798779
>formalism
what is that?

[Anonymous No.20798820]

>>20798796
Obsessed

[Anonymous No.20798834]

>>20798820
They are obsessed about producing porn, yes.

[Anonymous No.20799089]

>>20798587
find me a single shred of empirical evidence of the subconscious.

[Anonymous No.20799139]

>>20798806
Russian stuff. Look up Poetics of Cinema (Poetika kino) from 1926, edited by Boris Eikhenbaum/Eichenbaum. Alternatively Herbert Eagle's "Russian Formalist Film Theory" that contains a study on the texts from Poetika and includes most of them.
There's also neoformalist theory, such as Bordwell, but I haven't dug into it yet.
If you don't know anything about formalism at all, look up Viktor Shklovsky's essay "Art as Device/Technique" (different translations of the term). It's a classic starting point for them.

[Anonymous No.20799144]

>>20799139
Thank you! I will look it up. Are you a film student or a cinema connoisseur?

[Anonymous No.20799165]

>>20799089
>subconscious
You mean the unconscious? Easy, dreams show all kinds of unconscious desires and impressions.

[Anonymous No.20799172]

>>20799165
Acetylcholine neurons fire high voltage impulses into the forebrain. These impulses become pictures, the pictures
become dreams. But no one knows why we choose
these particular pictures.

[Anonymous No.20799193]

>>20799165
>Acetylcholine neurons fire high voltage impulses into the forebrain. These impulses become pictures, the pictures become dreams. But no one knows why we choose these particular pictures.

[Anonymous No.20799208]

>>20798643
>oedipus complex
Not refuted.

[Anonymous No.20799226]

>>20799208
Oh yeah, well if the Oedipus complex hasn't been refuted then why don't I want to fuck my mom?
>Checkmate Freudfags

[Anonymous No.20799243]

>>20799208
>dude every guy wants to fuck their mom lmao

[Anonymous No.20799251]

>>20799226
I thought it was more complicated that that? Like you compete with your father over your mother’s affections?

[Anonymous No.20799252]

>>20799226
Your resentment towards Freud clearly stems from your desire to fuck your mom. You resent him for calling you out, it's like he's your dad fucking your mom in the next room loudly and you want to kill him for it.

[Anonymous No.20799258]

>>20799251
>Like you compete with your father over your mother’s affections?
was that your case growing up?

[Anonymous No.20799268]

>>20799252
Anon, as per Sigmud Fraud, you are clearly projecting.

[Anonymous No.20799273]

>>20799258
No because I had 2 dads

[Anonymous No.20799283]

>>20799273
so you had gay elektra complex instead?

[Anonymous No.20799312]

>>20798587

[Anonymous No.20799317]

>>20799268
You just don't understand science. As Freud advised I simply went into the room, murdered my dad and ate his still beating heart while I raped my mom. In that moment everything became clear, I was finally sane. It's through this kind of work on yourself that you reach the level of insight I used to diagnose you correctly from only a few posts.

[Anonymous No.20799327]

>>20799283
No but I got to fool around and fuck my adopted stepsister when we both hit puberty. Fun times

[Anonymous No.20799335]

>>20798643
>penis envy has been refuted
I'm curious as to how. Even now when I see men talk about their salaries, their gym routines or brisk by really loudly in their motorcycles I can only imagine how much they're compensating for some sexual inadequacy. Even if it's nothing quite as simple as literal "penis envy" the fragile male ego is, by all accounts, very much real.

[Anonymous No.20799348]

>>20799335
Penis envy is about women being envious of men's penis.

[Anonymous No.20799356]

>>20799335
It's only considered clever to call the male ego fragile because there was a cultural stereotype of male stoicism as opposed to how all women act based on extremely fragile egos that can easily become hysterical. This post is penis envy.

[Anonymous No.20799369]

>>20799226
You do though.

[Anonymous No.20799374]

>>20799369
No. Freud based this wacko theory on a fucked up patient. Most people are normal.

[Anonymous No.20799383]

>>20799369
Nu-uh

[Anonymous No.20799404]

>>20798500
Freud is still presented legitimately in college psychology courses
>>20798587
Psychology is full of unfalsifiable concepts

The reality is that people's inner mental workings function drastically differently. As a car analogy - modern psychology is like assuming a diesel, a gasoline car and an electric vehicle (metaphorically different people) all function identically, "because the petals make the wheels go."

[Anonymous No.20799411]

>>20799317
>>20799327
You guys should date.

[Anonymous No.20799620]

>>20799312
>sex-obssessed sanskritist thinks he "debunked" Freud because it wasn't possible for Breuer or Freud to discern when patients were relating fantasies of being molested and were recounting instances of actually being molested.

[Anonymous No.20799662]

>>20799226
Not that. Do you notice how prevalent the incest fetish is now?
>>20799243
Why are you quoting yourself?

[Anonymous No.20799665]

>>20799662
>Why are you quoting yourself?
You are projecting, Mr Patient.
t. Fraud

[Anonymous No.20799674]

>>20799662
>Do you notice how prevalent the incest fetish is now?
you mean those porn videos with fake titles that everyone knows are fake? they're mostly about step siblings and cousins, not really mothers and fathers.

[Anonymous No.20799686]

>>20799374
Do you think just because a condition is given a term that it magically needs to effect every human alive, you retard? You can be perfectly normal but that doesn't mean other people will be. Freud was correct for asserting that this kind of incestuous thing was real.

[Anonymous No.20799695]

>>20799404
>petals
Opinions discarded

[Anonymous No.20799702]

>>20799686
It's not a "condition." It's not something medical or real. It's simply Fraud's fantasy and it was meant to be a phase in the psychosexual development of any person. You are doubly wrong.

[Anonymous No.20799708]

>>20799674
It shows people fetishize it to a sexual level and self insert into those in large numbers, the desire for the scenario is there. The only things holding these people back is societal fear, shame and the problem of their mother being ugly and thus unfuckable. You're both naive and retarded if you can't handle the implication. AGP too was rightfully called a fetish then people actually started cutting their dicks off.
>>20799665
>no u
See?

[Anonymous No.20799710]

>>20799686
also, imagine simping for Sigmund Fraud in the year of our lord 2022. holy kek.

[Anonymous No.20799711]

>>20799674
No shit, but the title is meant to draw in pervs with that fetish. You gonna tell me those boss and secretary videos aren’t real either? Kek

[Anonymous No.20799714]

>>20799702
Its real. You are a just dumb monkey or american that thinks its impossible because he thinks it is.

[Anonymous No.20799718]

>>20799674
>they're mostly about step siblings and cousins
They're tapping into established neural pathways relating to intimacy. The root path, the trunk of the tree is your mother.

[Anonymous No.20799721]

>>20799710
>its all fake and deboonked!
>because it just is okay?!

[Anonymous No.20799725]

>>20799708
>>no u
>See?
Still projecting. Sad!

[Anonymous No.20799738]

>>20799721
Yes, most of his shit is known to be deboonked if you're in the psych community. He's still taught because of historical relevance.

[Anonymous No.20799741]

>>20799714
It's not real in every person, which is what Fraud was claiming. Not every person is fucked up as a kid.

[Anonymous No.20799754]

>>20799708
Most people just jerk off to the videos without the actual desire to act the situation in reality. Also, like I said, the shit is mostly step sibling or cousin stuff. The mother stuff is less common. Are some men fucked in the head and want to fuck their mother? Yes. Does that apply to every man like Fraud said? No.

[Anonymous No.20799756]

Freud is important because he was a pioneer in exploring and defining the “unconscious” mind. From what I understand, the idea of thoughts/motives being influenced by “unconscious” or “pre conscious” urges originates in Freud. In that sense yes he was very important and revolutionized the way we think about ourselves. But no of course the Oedipus shit isn’t real, it’s not been taken seriously for over 30 years now at least. Anyone pointing to Freud’s stages of development as evidence against the legitimacy of psychology has no idea what they’re talking about.

[Anonymous No.20799801]

>>20799718
Prove it.

[Anonymous No.20800053]

>>20799756
Jung mentions previsages of the unconscious in Schopenhauer’s work, but I don’t remember where he cites it. A lot of the pioneering work on the subconscious was done by Freud and Jung jointly, before their famous split. Freud was a keen psychologist and masterful self promoter (he had some help in that area), but his schemas of the mind were one dimensionally sexual. In Jung’s view, Freud “got stuck” in sexual motivations, while jung plumbed deeper into the subconscious and developed the theory of archetypes and synchronicity, both of which are gravely misunderstood. Although Freud had good insight into subconscious motivations, he has little to say of matters of the spirit, a subject on which Jung is quite vocal. The latter is more important to the modern world than yet more sexual liberation.

[Anonymous No.20800096]

>>20798625
>He is at least entertaining. I also think the sex drive influences people more than we want to admit
in atheism yes, guess in what society freud pushed his ideas

[Anonymous No.20800098]

>>20799756
>But no of course the Oedipus shit isn’t real
filtered

[Anonymous No.20800099]

>>20800098
t. wants to fuck his mum

[Anonymous No.20800111]

>>20799725
>projecting
the absolute irony calling the guy who invented that concept "Fraud"

[Anonymous No.20800113]

[Anonymous No.20800114]

>>20799404
>Psychology is full of unfalsifiable concepts
>The reality is that people's inner mental workings function drastically differently. As a car analogy - modern psychology is like assuming a diesel, a gasoline car and an electric vehicle (metaphorically different people) all function identically, "because the petals make the wheels go."
None of what you just said makes any difference. We all know projection is a real thing, and we all know that talk therapy empirically works

[Anonymous No.20800117]

[Anonymous No.20800122]

>>20799089
>find me a single shred of empirical evidence of the subconscious.
NPC doesn't dream, NPC has never accidentally said something he didn't consciously intend to

of course i can't show you the unconscious is real if you have no conscious experience to begin with, p-zombie.

[Anonymous No.20800123]

>>20800111
thats the joke.

[Anonymous No.20800126]

>>20798756
>this doesn't mean anything
it sure does buddy, you believe in projection, therapy, and the unconscious. here's an easy riddle: you are a retard

[Anonymous No.20800128]

>>20800122
>freud invented dreaming
kek

[Anonymous No.20800131]

>>20798651
>You know his theories can't be refuted. Stop being dishonest. "the ego-unconscious-conscience model" does not represent a significant progress from the greak and oriental myths of the government of the one self
Yes we all know what is unequivocally true cannot be refuted. Retard. The sun can't be refuted. We all know talk therapy empirically works, we all know projection, neurosis, and the unconscious exist. Anyone that disagrees is only proving that they are an NPC and can't into human nature

[Anonymous No.20800135]

>>20800126
do you believe all men want to fuck their mothers like Fraud said? yes or no.

[Anonymous No.20800138]

>>20798643
>penis envy has been refuted, Oedipus complex has been debunked, psychosexual development has been BTFO.
Notice how I didn't list any of those things you illiterate fucking mongoloid. I never said "Freud was right about everything he ever said". OP is the one claiming
>Everything he said has been refuted, debunked, and BTFO
I already proved all of you wrong. Kill yourselves.

[Anonymous No.20800142]

>>20800123
No the joke is that you are a retard and slipped up

>>20800128
Nobody claimed he invented dreaming

>>20800135
Of course not. Freud said more than "everybody wants to fuck their mother" but you wouldn't know this because you don't read like the rest of /lit/ mongoloids

[Anonymous No.20800148]

>>20800138
You also said :
>in fact all of these have been substantiated and are so ingrained in the average person's worldview that we take them all totally for granted now.
which is completely false.

[Anonymous No.20800150]

>>20800142
>No the joke is that you are a retard and slipped up
The joke is you're a retard who can't read >>20799268

[Anonymous No.20800154]

>>20800142
>Freud said more than "everybody wants to fuck their mother"
He said every person has a phase like that when their kids. Which has been refuted, like most of his propositions. They're cute as curious ideas but they are not scientific facts.

[Anonymous No.20800206]

>>20798779
>traditional historical and stylistic descriptions
>don't force unrelated theories upon every film.
Bruh

[Anonymous No.20800217]

>>20800206
>Bruh
N

[Anonymous No.20800218]

>>20799756
Schopenhauer spearheaded the uncounscious drives theory of psychology and even described a rudimentary but sharp model of repression, to the point that even Freud was surprised. (You can find this in his biography)

[Anonymous No.20800227]

what a pseud thread. do /lit/sisters not even skim wiki pages anymore?

[Anonymous No.20800244]

>>20799756
Ah so you're saying that when you:
>cuddle with a girl before/after sex
>suck on her nipples
>play with/inspect her body
>let yourself get yelled at for not doing your dishes
it has absolutely nothing to do with anything from childhood experiences with your mother whatsoever?

[Anonymous No.20800247]

>>20798500
>Is there a more useless "non-fiction" author to read today than Freud?
Jung

[Anonymous No.20800342]

>>20798587
>deranged jew comes up with psychobable wheelchair theories with no proofs, just trust me goy
>gains a cult following and ignores anyone who doesn't agree with him
>his jew nephew brain washes and pushes him on amerisharts
>what ? afraid of horses ? You wanna get fucked in the ass bro.

What triggers me most about Freud is not that he was wrong, and it's clear that he had some valuable things to say, since Bernays used his knowledge, but the fact that he's held in such high regard despite being absolute pseudo-science.
Other esotericists don't get this kind of attention.

He's a real life case of a meme. He and Nietzsche, no matter how wrong they are, just keep failing upwards because they are so known.

[Anonymous No.20800431]

>>20800342
>antisemitism and uncultured verbal diarrhoreea

[Anonymous No.20800502]

>>20800431
>uhhh my goyslop juiced brain detects animosity towards my masters, quick quick, abra cadabra antisemitismo bro, you just cannot do that, remember the holocaust and the foreskins ?? Not cool.
Kill yourself you mental shitter, you probably haven't even read Freud, or his letters, or looked at how his cult flowed after his demise.

[Anonymous No.20800575]

>>20798587
fpbp

[Anonymous No.20800824]

>>20798500
Psychopathology of everyday is an amazing book, Freud just makes you seethe like the little botch you are

[Anonymous No.20800932]

>>20800244
I definitely think childhood experiences, especially dynamics between parents and children, can affect adult behavior without a doubt. I’m just saying that the ultra specific psychosexual Oedipal stuff is completely baseless and believing in it wholeheartedly is rooted closer to religion than science/logic. However again I recognize how pivotal Freud’s perspective was, and it’s telling that we still use terms he coined (repression, projection, anal retentive) in the present day.

[Anonymous No.20800985]

>>20799374
"You want to fuck your mom" is just a meme. What Freud was saying was that you have a mental image of ideal femininity which stems from your interactions with your mother and that ideal guides you towards women who embody it.

[Anonymous No.20801039]

>>20800985
You can't avoid this by deferring to some other model, it will just say the same thing differently.
Physical examinations of the brain will show a large part of the physical mass relates to your mother or some similar first teacher of basics like intimacy in your life.

[Anonymous No.20801061]

>>20799144
Studying comparative literature, with electives on film theory/history; published a bit of film criticism.

[Anonymous No.20801065]

>>20801039
>You can't avoid this by deferring to some other model, it will just say the same thing differently.
No it won't, because "you want to fuck your mom" can be taken literally, which isn't what he was saying. The traits of the first woman in your life, who raised you during your most vulnerable years, create a natural sense of security in you (or a natural sense of disgust, depending on your relationship to your mom) so we gravitate towards women who possess those traits either to show them love or to release pent up frustration with.

[Anonymous No.20801070]

>>20798500
What would Freud say about this board?

[Anonymous No.20801085]

Basically no one consciously wants to fuck their mom in Freud's view. It is a repressed wish stemming from childhood that exists in the unconscious. People fixate on the Oedipus complex, which is really not one of Freud's most important ideas, without understanding the meaning of the unconscious, which is, and without which the Oedipus complex makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.20801093]

>>20798587
fpbp. looking back, he should've won the nobel over einstein.

[Anonymous No.20801100]

>>20801085
Well said

[Anonymous No.20801105]

>>20801065
>The traits of the first woman in your life
I wasn't disagreeing. This is an oversimplification while what I said points at the root phenomena your description points at. In the brain the mother isn't just represented as an ideal, the mother is the root training for some of the most basic elements of your life like intimacy and trust. Your expectations in general, not just sexual are formed by the original training so issues with trust etc that come from those early years can be very hard to overcome. Someone abused basically may not have any trust or intimacy pathways at all so there's no leverage to begin any socialization.

[Anonymous No.20801117]

>>20801065
>>20800985
Explain gays then

[Anonymous No.20801123]

>>20798500
With Heidegger, Freud and Nietzsche dominated continental Europe, replacing Hegel and Marx
Freud is unironicaly one of the best nonfiction authors to read, not for the ideas but for the way of thinking. Something that people like you will never understand, because you don't think, you just replicate and spew out the latest DEBOONK

[Anonymous No.20801130]

>>20798500
>>20798594
>>20798609
Seethe more redditor

[Anonymous No.20801203]

>>20798746
Formal analysis, if non-masturbatory, is a great way to look at the ways films affect us sequence-to-sequence and shot-to-shot. But formal analysis is not a good way to learn from film cause it can’t teach you how to write a good story, only how to squeeze the most out of one.

[Anonymous No.20801208]

>>20799089
>empirical
based retard

[Anonymous No.20801544]

>>20800244
Yes.

[Anonymous No.20801555]

>>20800247
Jung is more interesting to read. Freud is a soulless coomer bugman Jew. Jung is that a spiritual chad German with SOVL.

[Anonymous No.20801562]

>>20801117
Freud says faggots are men who did not solve their Oedipus complex when they were boys and instead were attracted to the father.

[Anonymous No.20801568]

>>20801130
Freud is as reddit as you can get in this field.

[Anonymous No.20801580]

>>20801123
>replacing Hegel and Marx
Marx was never replaced.
>Freud is unironicaly one of the best nonfiction authors to read
He's mostly fiction now, let's not kid ourselves.
> not for the ideas but for the way of thinking
Agree, mostly fictional ideas and modern mythologies.
>Something that people like you will never understand, because you don't think, you just replicate and spew out the latest DEBOONK
He's mostly objectively wrong.

[Anonymous No.20803387]

>>20798587
Freud is nothing more than a modern guru.

His theories are not rooted in science,* that is, in the experimental method. They are rooted rather in the kind of intuitions that literary critics have, albeit writ large.

*Frederick Crews, writing in the NY Review of Books and elsewhere, has thoroughly debunked any pretensions Freud, or devotees of Freudian psychoanalysis, have to a scientific basis in their theories and practice.

[Sage No.20803536]

>>20799335
Holy fuck dont you feel any shame writing various lines of a subject you are ignorant about? I have noticed many of you here: the famous wikipedia experts

[Anonymous No.20803628]

>>20798587
Absolutely based. /lit/eral retards on suicide watch

[Anonymous No.20803634]

>>20798643
Bruh, are you trying to claim that people don't get a blueprint of what an acceptable mate is like from the example their parents set? You must be a certified simpleton.

[Anonymous No.20803761]

>>20798500
1) Freudian slips are real.
2) Ego, Id, and Superego are still accepted.
3) Psychologists still believe in the unconscious mind
4) Feminism is penis envy. The entire goal is for women to be like men (they prefer the word "equal", whatever that means)

[Anonymous No.20804080]

>>20803634
that's not what oedipus complex is.

[Anonymous No.20804089]

>>20803761
>Feminism is penis envy.
Not in the way freud meant.