/lit/ - Literature

[So what am I in for? No.20691517]

I saw it's 31st in the top 100 list but the Goodreads reviews are not stellar and I haven't read fantasy in a long time. Is Sam Hyde right?

[Anonymous No.20691538]

>>20691517
>2022
>Listening to Shamael Hoidelberg
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

[So what am I in for? No.20691552]

>>20691538
He predicted state enforced homosexuality, he's not all bad

[Anonymous No.20691554]

Read it. It's good

[Anonymous No.20691560]

>>20691517
I thought it was good, not great. Good prose and ideas, but they feel sort of like sketches stapled together.

Quote good as far as genre fiction goes, but I'm a little lost as to how it's considered some of the best genre fiction of all time. The other contenders, Hyperion, Dune, The Darkness That Comes Before, Canticle for Leibowitz, etc. all feel like a significant tier up.

I'd say this is an A, not an S.

[Anonymous No.20691564]

>goodreads reviews
>Sam Hyde
>Dune
Not sure whether I should weep or projectile vomit at the absolute state of this board.

[So what am I in for? No.20691590]

>>20691554
>>20691560
Thanks anons

[Anonymous No.20691830]

>>20691560
What the fuck is genre fiction and how is it different from literary fiction?

[Anonymous No.20691841]

I hated it. Did absolutely nothing for me. Never touched Wolfe again after that.

[Anonymous No.20691874]

I found it amazing, but it's definitely not to everyone's taste. Prose is above average but nothing great. For me, what I enjoyed about it were the following: similarity to Borges (stories within stories, oblique references to non-existent stuff, a certain depth of culture and knowledge that doesn't get expanded upon), a constant sense of "WTF is the author up to?" - an astute reader will start to notice some weird stuff going on with the narrative very quickly, and some of this compounds to the point where it's a very unique reading experience -, and the overall story that deals with myths existing through time, the role of archetypes, and some other stuff.

[Anonymous No.20691891]

>>20691517
It's a long and perilous journey, and I won't blame you if you decide against taking it.

[Anonymous No.20691911]

>>20691517
I read Shadow of the Torturer and honestly was a little disappointed. It's wonderful until he gets out of the citadel and then it's honestly a mess of poorly-connected events and sloppily written women who immediately want to slobber on Severian's dick for no good reason. I'm told the rest of them are better, but I've shelved them for now. Maybe I'll go back to them.

[Anonymous No.20691989]

>>20691560
>The Darkness That Comes Before
b8

[Anonymous No.20692021]

>>20691911
You do know Severian is supposed to be writing that book? Gene was fond of unreliable narrators

[Anonymous No.20692196]

>>20692021
if the unreliable narrator tells a bad story, that's still gene wolfe telling a bad story. It's not an excuse.

[Anonymous No.20692266]

>>20691874
I'd second this. It checked every box for me but I can definitely understand it not being everyone's cup of tea. The confusing storytelling is frustrating at points and often only clicks in hindsight, but is always for the benefit of making the book really feel like it's written by Severian, the autistic creep from a million years in the future, and not Wolfe, the jolly old author from the 20th century.
The way they can present literal ayylmaos and hyperfuturistic technology in a way that still feels like medieval fantasy is really something special. There were so many "holy shit" moments when I realized what was actually going on, I feel like that's half the fun of reading it.

[Anonymous No.20692288]

>>20691911
>sloppily written women who immediately want to slobber on Severian's dick for no good reason
Of all the pleb filters in BotNS you got filtered by the sperg protag gassing himself up as a sex god?

[Anonymous No.20692320]

>>20692288
>shadow of the torturer is a shitty book on purpose and is only good in retrospect once you've finished all four books
you're just reinforcing my point. If it can't be enjoyed on its own, it shouldn't be sold as a complete novel.

[Anonymous No.20692341]

>>20691560
I would put it above Dune and roughly on par with Hyperion, haven't read the others. The plot structure might be a little tangled, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. By the end of it I realized the story had weaved a wondrously dark dreamlike mood like no other SFF book I've read.

[Anonymous No.20692348]

>>20691564
ywnbaw

[Anonymous No.20692364]

>>20692288
>sperg protag gassing himself up as a sex god
this would be more effective if it weren't in every single fantasy novel

[Anonymous No.20692447]

All the criticisms in this thread are legitimate. Severian is an asshole sperg at least through the end of Shadow and maybe even through the end of Claw. Jonas and Thecla mellow him out but God he's so clueless and self absorbed in the first half of the book. A lot of the back half of Shadow is "vignettes that will be important later" and the fact that you can tell they'll be important makes them feel less episodic so they're in a weird middle ground. Severian fucks every hot woman he meets (according to his own account).

However I also feel that by the second half (and in Urth) he's much more likeable. The Shadow vignettes are interesting enough to me to carry themselves as short stories. The setting is wonderful and bizarre, there's enough plot threads and background stuff to fuel endless analysis. Dreamlike is a good word to describe the series. I think it's absolutely worth reading, one of my favorite books tbqh

[Anonymous No.20692832]

>>20691517
It's written by the pringles guy, if it doesn't make you want to read it nothing will

[Anonymous No.20693253]

>>20692447
I feel like Severian aimlessly stumbling through his ill-defined quest is a nice subversion of the usual SFF formula. I never minded him being autistic and actually found his stock "she was by far the most beautiful creature to ever meet my eyes" description of every woman he meets pretty endearing.
On my second read I found myself enjoying the vignettes and weird encounters more than the main "plot". Fever dream is definitely accurate, with the way bizarre lore and situations casually weave in and out of the story. Stuff like the Typhon encounter or the Asean storyteller are good examples.

[Anonymous No.20693597]

>>20691517
Wolfe is based and redpilled on the Woman Question. If his novel doesn't have straight up rape in it, it's full of femoids getting exposed as conniving harpies, or just hot babes having sex.
And all that is to say, he has a very realistic and balanced understanding of women that is reflected beautifully in his characters.

[Anonymous No.20693619]

>>20691517
I think it’s one of the greatest fantasy series ever written, up there with Lord of the Rings. One thing I will say is that the first book is a little tougher, and a lot of people don’t enjoy it as much on their first read through compared to the later ones, so I’m always a little reticent to recommend it outright.

[Anonymous No.20693628]

>>20691891
Kek, that “translator’s notice,” makes that image.

[Anonymous No.20693632]

>>20691911
>a mess of poorly-connected events
>women who immediately want to slobber on Severian's dick for no good reason
This is the meme, guys. Really good meme, keep it up.

[Anonymous No.20693659]

>>20693632
it's not, the second half of the book is fully of scenes that have no clear purpose for existing that only serve to delay the obvious betrayal by agia to the point where it's frustrating to read. The entire sequence of events between meeting agia and executing her brother fucking sucked and made me not want to go on to Claw.

[Anonymous No.20693688]

>>20693659
Hmm, yeah this bait a little too obvious.

[Anonymous No.20693709]

>>20693628
Ikr
You just need to have the Lexicon open when you read this series for the first time

[Anonymous No.20694065]

>>20693253
For me it's when that old torturer pulls Severian aside and casually explains that he carries a dildo with him at all times so he can perform punitive rape if his boner drugs don't work, and the encounter is never brought up again

[Anonymous No.20694145]

>>20691517
I am vomit.

[Anonymous No.20694150]

>>20694065
Absolute chad Gurloes

[Anonymous No.20694152]

>>20691517
No one gives a shit about list positions, goodreads, or Sam Hyde

[Anonymous No.20694170]

>>20694065
lmao that part ruled, it felt like he was trying to impress him with how cool his job was

[Anonymous No.20694259]

>>20694065
>>20694150
Severian brought it up to talk about human nature and how the job of the head of the torturer's guild affected Gurloes. Those kind of ruminations came up over and over again through the series, and ultimately center around the paradox as expressed by Palaemon that (paraphrasing) "Only good men are qualified to be torturers". Gurloes is a good man and the stress manifested itself in subtle ways that he tried to repress.
If you'll remember, Severian remarks that on another occasion Gurloes did rape a female prisoner when the job detailed it to be done, and he did so without any kind of hesitation or issue. So Severian was pondering what it was on this specific case that caused Gurloes some kind of internal conflict, not only that he would be unable or unwilling to do the rape, but that he would share his misgivings with Severian in an indirect way.
So he wasn't trying to impress Severian. In simple terms Gurloes wanted to be merciful to this woman for some reason, but he had to hide it because it's treasonous. He was coping, and just venting to Severian without being totally forthcoming because that would betray the guild and he has to set an example.

[Anonymous No.20694307]

>>20693688
He's clearly more sincere than you

[Anonymous No.20694368]

>>20691830
Genre fic is stuff that can be sold by genre alone
When someone buys a romance novel they have expectations. If it doesn't fill out those expectations it's a bad romance novel.
Litfic is anything that is hard to sell either because it doesn't fit into a consistent genre (surrealism) or it's genre is obscure (transgressive fiction)

[Anonymous No.20694466]

>>20694368
Science fiction is nothing like romance novels in that respect. I defy you to find a common thread between BOTNS, Star Maker and The Caves of Steel beyond "they take place in the future". There certainly are genres within science fiction in that sense (military SF), but I'd bet that if I picked three books written in the last 10 years off the "literary" section of my local bookstore they'd be far more similar to each other than my three examples are.

[Anonymous No.20694522]

>>20692320

Wolfe insisted to the publisher it be published as one giant volume. He had the entire thing written, edited, and completed. It was his publisher that wanted to milk yearly releases. It's Book of the New Sun, not Books of the New Sun.

[Anonymous No.20694531]

>>20692447

Severian only clicked as moderately likeable for me half way through Sword of the Lictor. Once he starts outwitting the mages to try and get young Severian back I was on board all the way. There's a lot of things he claims in Shadow and Claw that seem like total bullshit to me, but outsmarting the mages in the wood felt legitimate and demonstrated that he was clever. The problem is that Severian knows he is clever, and Wolfe weaves that fault flawlessly in the book.

[Anonymous No.20694544]

>>20694259

Note that this admission of Gurloes is likely, although never explicitly stated to be, the primary reason why Severian becomes 'bold' enough to assist Thecla.

[Anonymous No.20694547]

How is Latro in the Mist?

[Anonymous No.20694696]

>>20694259
Severian was reflecting on the odd nature of bravery in that scene. He says there are people who are cowards if they know they have to do something in advance but can do courageous things if the situation happens immediately. Gurloes struggled with getting erections when he knew he had to sexually abuse a prisoner in advance. Which is why he had the phallus and the powder. Severian remembers that there was a time when Gurloes had to suddenly sexually abuse a client, if memory serves it was because the client was dying sooner than expected, so he had to act suddenly. So in that situation he was actually able to get an erection and rape the prisoner. Severian was reflecting on this because he just bravely fought the ape men and began to break down, which to him seemed funny in an odd sort of way because the danger was over.

[Anonymous No.20695232]

>>20691517
Please give me the link of Sam Hyde reccing it.

[Anonymous No.20695239]

>>20694531
For me it was the other way around. I disliked Severian more and more after the boat scene. At first, he was just a kid raised in a messed up environment, but then I realised he was actually messed up, and so am I for cheering for him the entire time. I don't remember at which point I started to like him again, but it was much later. Probably near the end of the Citadel.

[Anonymous No.20695262]

>>20692832
Wait... Wait! Is the Pringles logo made after Gene Wolfe?

[Anonymous No.20695476]

>>20691560
it's a tier above all of those

[Anonymous No.20695487]

>>20693659
all the plebs get filtered there kek

[Anonymous No.20695496]

>>20694547
great. Wolfe showing off by doing the complete opposite of BoTNS with an mc who can't remember and its in the distant past

[Anonymous No.20695513]

>>20693597
I started reading Shadow today because of this thread and saw what you meant by this even in the beginning kek (Sev mentions how they stopped employing women as torturers because they were too needlessly cruel). I'm enjoying it, reminds me a bit of CAS' Zothique setting

[Anonymous No.20695623]

>>20691560
>hyperion
reddit alert

[Anonymous No.20695627]

>>20694547
I heckin' loved it
>>20695513
Zothique is one of the greats, fuck yeah

[Anonymous No.20695641]

>>20695262
He didn't invent it, but he did help develop the machine that makes them. I believe he didn't even have the mustache until decades after the pringles logo was established. So it's just a cool coincidence.

[Anonymous No.20695659]

>>20695641
>cool coincidence
Nah, it was foreshadowing of the plot of New Sun.

[Anonymous No.20696690]

After 6 readings it is more worthwhile each time. Severian is a reflective character first, and an acting character second. The seeming structure and meaninglessness of the encounters will quickly dissipate as you move through the books. You may encounter a wall in the first book or the second that makes you drop it - I dropped it 2-3 times because it was trying my concentration to imagine his journey, but that's a failure of my iimagination, not Gene Wolfe's, and by the middle of the third book, you know what it's about.

That's a lot to ask of a reader; going through more than two books before they know what the hell the point and general direction of the story is, and at THAT point still not knowing.

While Inundated with obscure words like urticate and salpynx and a complex futurehistorical vocabulary that is designed to intimate rather than directly define. All described ONLY through the lens of an educated and experienced older version of someone describing in (nearly) perfect detail the story of a young torturer.

Bear in mind as a reader that Wolfe crafted the original four books to tell a certain story, and while that story ends, Severian writes again in the coda Urth of the New Sun, and that book, while hard to follow at first, is the key to the original series - and a catholic work of high skill.

This series isn't quite as pure in writing style as Dunsany or Tolkien, Severian is a philosopher at the end of time, wondering what the accretion of all of humanities civilizations and follies means. He doesn't just chop heads off with big sword, I, an advocate of the recently dead, swear to you people.

[Anonymous No.20696938]

>>20692196
It's not a bad story though. You just have poor reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.20696945]

>>20693659
All those scenes are connected to what happens after shadow. The point is to be intelligent while reading it.

[Anonymous No.20698365]

>>20692341
If you like the dreamlike narrative, check out Vurt by Jeff Noon

[Anonymous No.20698396]

what the hell does sam hyde have to do with this novel

[Anonymous No.20698579]

>>20698396
he referenced it like 2 or 3 times. off the top of my head this video or part 2 he mentions Agia being a female trait that they are out there you got to avoid
https://youtu.be/Q9yyeNG68g4


Hes also mentioned R. A. Lafferty's Past Master. That too is a good book

[Anonymous No.20698679]

>>20698579
its somewhere in the full hour long gay video

[Anonymous No.20698901]

I'm reading it for the first time right now. I thought I was a third of the way into it, but I just realized I'm actually reading a combined volume of the first two books, so I think I'm actually nearing the end of the first book. Severian just copied the note, that's the last thing I read. I'm glad to hear that all the humble bragging about women throwing themselves at him is just what it sounds like and not necessarily meant to be taken completely literally.
But what has really struck me so far is how nice everyone is. Yes, I know, there will inevitably be crushing betrayals and such. The peasants are suitably guarded and cautious, but everyone in Nessus seems willing by default to help another person as long as it doesn't cost them too much. In the Citadel too, although at first I thought that was just explained by the insular atmosphere and the inhabitants singular senses of purpose.

Severian impresses upon us again and again how unwelcome someone who wears a torturer's cloak ought to be in polite company, but the only way in which it's ever been even a minor annoyance for him is strangers, like the guard on the bridge, worrying about his safety and urging him to blend in. Based on this thread, perhaps the various episodes of kindness he's received from random strangers so far are going to be the basis of important relationships later, so the people I've been introduced to are in fact special in some way and not meant to reflect the typical attitudes at the time.
It's certainly not unforgivable to portray people as basically good, and maybe it says more about the state of the genre than anything else how noticeable and refreshing it is when they aren't almost universally evil.

[Anonymous No.20699874]

>>20698901
Severian has an overinflated idea of the importance of the Citadel in general. Pay attention to what people have to say about the citadel and the torturers guild.

[Anonymous No.20700312]

>>20698901
>>20699874
Severian goes on and on about how torture is the most noble profession and his fuligin cloak is a gleaming symbol of his position, but only a handful of people ever have any idea what he's supposed to be.

[Anonymous No.20700361]

>>20698901
They're scared of him. He looks like nobility because he's taller than most people and he appears to be dressed in a Halloween costume. The daytime sky is dark enough to see the stars and he's wearing a cloak that doesn't reflect light so it often looks like he's partially invisible, and he has a huge expensive sword. But he's also very polite and tries to mind his own business.
He also doesn't meet that many people or know that many women.

[Anonymous No.20701025]

I was reading New Sun again and-- Doctor Talos is a chem, right?

He has the same kind of name as someone from the Whorl (title, mononym) and you could analyze "Talos" as "Talus", meaning either a bone in your foot (a male name) or a kind of pebble ground cover (a chem name). Plus, later in the book Severian describes him as mostly making expressions by tilting his face, which is the same way Maytera Marble makes expressions.

Baldanders says he made him, but does that necessarily mean he invented the technology out of whole cloth? Maybe the hierodules gave him the technology and he just means he made Talos specifically. But then I don't know why he would give him a Whorl name.

[Anonymous No.20701165]

>>20700361
>Wolfe describes Severian in Shadows of the New Sun as being 6'1", 175 pounds
For some reason I imagine him to be 2 metres tall or so

[Anonymous No.20701961]

>>20701025
man, that neo tumblr art is ass. Check out the 90s comic, art looks like sandman

[Anonymous No.20702400]

>>20695513
>Sev mentions how they stopped employing women as torturers because they were too needlessly cruel
i audibly kek'd when i read that bit

[Anonymous No.20702439]

>>20695513
wait until you read Urth and see exactly how cruel they can be

[Anonymous No.20702792]

>>20691560
>Good prose
HA!

[Anonymous No.20703231]

>>20702792
sorry, he meant great prose

[Anonymous No.20703264]

>>20691517
>Wolfe
What a meme, he's not worth reading.

[Anonymous No.20703274]

>tfw I'm realizing the only reason my friend is reading this is because of sam hyde
and just like that, my respect for him dipped doooooooooooooooooooooown

[Anonymous No.20703282]

>>20703274
why?

[Anonymous No.20703285]

>>20696945
then don't sell it as a completed novel
I don't understand why you guys so vehemently defend Shadow's shitty second half by saying it retroactively becomes good because of events that happen after the book ends
that's retarded

[Anonymous No.20703305]

>>20703285
>then don't sell it as a completed novel
wut

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115446876886?hash=item1ae12b8ad6:g:0vMAAOSwhwxiu9Pe

[Anonymous No.20703317]

>>20703305
shadow of the torturer
clearly the whole series should be sold exclusively as a single book. Shadow isn't even very long.

[Anonymous No.20703363]

>>20692320
You read one fourth of the book and stopped. This is literally the definition of being filtered
>yeah there's four seasons of this show, but I only watched season one. Didn't like it
Filtered

[Anonymous No.20703371]

>>20693619
For me it all came together in Sword. I enjoyed Shadow and Claw, but Sword was kino through and through

[Anonymous No.20703377]

what does this have to do with sam hyde?

[Anonymous No.20703385]

>>20691517
I really really like long/short sun
Something about Silk's optimistic take on people seem so strange, but still genuine to me. Having a peek into someone who views the world so differently from myself.
His ability (need?) to find the good in people. His anecdotes about how there actually are very few bad people, warming stuff.

[Anonymous No.20703394]

>>20694259
>"it must be done by good men. You are badly advised, Autarch! What is intolerable is that it should be done by bad men.” I smiled. His face, as I had seen it then, had recalled something I had thrust from my mind months before. It was that this guild was my family, and all the home I should ever have. I would never find a friend in the world if I could not find friends here. “Between us, Master,” I told him, “we have decided it should not be done at all.”
Holy kino

[Anonymous No.20703452]

>>20703394
Soon I must don robes of argent, the color that is more pure than white

[Anonymous No.20703714]

>>20695239
He starts to become a better person when
thecla comes alive in him. Also one of the best moments is when he heals the girl in the jackal. He was in mortal danger and being hunted down for refusing to execute that old bitch, but he still goes out of his way to heal her.
>I was no longer a torturer

[Anonymous No.20703726]

>>20696690
Based post

[Anonymous No.20703737]

Agia is the worst character in the books
She's like the team rocket but her dumb actions actually have important consequences which makes her even more stupid

[Anonymous No.20703754]

>>20703737
She's a bitch and should've just gotten dicked and ditched by big chad Severian instead of plotting to kill him and take his sword (she should've taken his OTHER sword, if you know what I mean). She brought her brother's death upon herself

[Anonymous No.20703761]

>>20703737
She, like everyone else, is a mere instrument of the pancreator.

[Anonymous No.20703775]

>>20703285
It's a novel in four volumes (usually two these days). I think at worst you can say Wolfe and/or the publisher shouldn't have broken it up.

[Anonymous No.20703822]

>>20703737
It mirrors Vodalus. In another book, she would be a serious threat and Vodalus would be a legitimate threat/alternative to the Commonwealth. Once you see the Ascian army and just, generally, on what level the hierodules and megatherians are fighting, he feels like a childish sideshow.

[Anonymous No.20704221]

>>20703714
Thecla was a mean girl before she got imprisoned in the Matachin Tower. If anything, she made Severian more womanly evil. The part with Jader and his sister (the old lady from the Urth, I don't know her name) is really endearing. They were so precious. That old bitch seduced Severian. I wish he stayed in Thrax instead of thinking with his dick.
>>20703737
I expected Agia and Severian would get together eventually. Too bad she's a psycho.

[Anonymous No.20704271]

I’m almost done with Citadel and just when I thought I was starting to “get it” the book turns into an eldritch lore dump.
I’m guessing at least some of the insane shit gets explained in Urth of the New Sun?
Really enjoyed the ride so far though.

[Anonymous No.20704281]

>>20704221
>I wish he stayed in Thrax instead of thinking with his dick
All within the flow of causal- I mean, the design of the Pancreator

[Anonymous No.20704371]

>>20704271
The eldritch shit has only just begun. Do you remember how alien the Shadow of the Torturer felt? Well, that's what the Urth of the New Sun feels like.

[Anonymous No.20704710]

>>20704371
Let's fucking go
Bless you, Pringles man

[Anonymous No.20705096]

>>20704371
I'm halfway through it rn and it's so hard to keep track of what's actually happening and why. The rereadability on these books is probably the highest among all books ever. I bet you feel like the largest brained person in the world when you finally get it

[Anonymous No.20705231]

>>20703714
it's implied Thecla electro whipped people in the antichamber severain gets trapped in in book 2

[Anonymous No.20705319]

>>20691560
It’s better than all the novels you listed by a large margin and including Bakker in any list of “the best” makes me think you might have a learning disability

[Anonymous No.20705323]

>>20691891
>tons of badass swordsman images like guts
Even by Severian’s exaggeration in the narrative, he admits he’s a fledgling swordsman

[Anonymous No.20705348]

>>20705231
I probably didn't catch that.

What I'm saying is just that, looking at what happened, after Thecla came alive in him, he started to become more empathetic and kind. Again, he put himself in danger to heal someone, and then immediately said that he was no longer a torturer. Then he has everything with lil' sev and his family. Etc. He does say in Urth that thecla wasnt a good woman, according to herself, but just looking at his actions after they became one shows things differently, imo. I just don't think thecla made him worse. Maybe because they were both togethe, they brought out the best in eachother?idk.

[Anonymous No.20705431]

>>20705348
you mean his actions where he rapes Jolenta? I joke. She was asking for it by the way it was consensual

[Anonymous No.20705701]

>>20705096
I am rereading the series very slowly and only now do I get it. There are many little things which are connected, but you can't recognise them before reading every book.
>>20705323
It's a joke which I'll now definitely overuse when I make the Sword of the Lictor edition. Terminus Est is barely a weapon, but Severian uses it most efficiently in combat (or so he claims).

[Anonymous No.20706393]

>>20694368
This is the best definition I’ve read for genre fiction.
It doesn’t feel “preachy” or “elitist.”
Another poster picks it up and replies something about Science Fiction being different, but I think they are missing the point of your answer.
Really really good definition.
Kudos.

[Anonymous No.20707846]

>>20691830
If you have to ask, you’re never going to make it, any non-retard can just intuitively tell the difference between something like Starship Troopers and Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.20707967]

>>20706393
thanks

[Anonymous No.20707975]

>>20694466
>three novels seperated from each other by around two decades have less in common with each other than three novels written within a decade of each other
yeah

[Anonymous No.20708431]

>>20705431
That was pre-thecla being fully alive. Sev said it felt like it took some time for her to "regenerate" or whatever. But that happened immediately after he ate her body by like a week. Also she consented. Also it doesn't matter if she consented or not. When a girl gets on a boat with you, she understands the implication

[Anonymous No.20708851]

>>20708431
>she understands the implication

[Anonymous No.20709146]

>>20705431
Unironically it was consensual

[Anonymous No.20709246]

>>20708431
What about brutally raping the prostitute from the merc camp? I had no idea what came over Severian, by that time he seemed like a decent person obsessed with the "Claw"

[Anonymous No.20709813]

>>20709246
You mean when she literally wanted to fuck him because he was tall and handsome(pre-agia slap) but he turned into thecla for a moment and didn't and instead just said some weird shit she couldn't possibly understand about only wanting himself? I think it was Thecla that came over him at that moment, fren. Kek