>All art must be entertaining and sell well. Where does this mindset come from?

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Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:31:28 2022 No.20623477 [Reply] [Original]

>All art must be entertaining and sell well.
Where does this mindset come from?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:33:41 2022 No.20623488 The inability to distinguish art from craft and craft from merely mass-produced consumer goods.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:35:27 2022 No.20623498 >>20623477 Americans and weebs

Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:36:29 2022 No.20623503

>>20623477
It comes from the mindset of a person who has been betrayed by their loved ones, their society, and themselves since they were born. A person who has been taught not to think, and thus, not to question the series of harms that has been visited upon them. A person who has been reduced to Last Man status after being clamped, vaccinated, circumcised, fluorinated, brominated, chlorinated, irradiated, glyphosated, atrazinated, aluminum loaded, teratogenated, and hydrogenated. A husk of a human being. Mere cattle.

Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:40:15 2022 No.20623535

>>20623477
It comes from failed artists who think effort and middling talent means they deserve to make a living from their art. Most pathetic thing I've ever seen was my exes older brother crying like a bitch and threatening to kill himself because some roastie who's rich husband bought her a gallery space rejected his shit art for an exhibition.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:40:35 2022 No.20623540 seethe

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:48:14 2022 No.20623579 >>20623540 Over what?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:51:15 2022 No.20623594 >>20623477 >and sell well Capitalism, next question

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:55:01 2022 No.20623610 >>20623477 It comes from living in a world where you are required to be entertaining and have money.

Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:55:21 2022 No.20623612

>>20623540
i always feel like the guys who seethe about consumption like that are watching streamers or reading forums that are actively marketing shit to them but they are too dumb to figure it out. like i remember seeing some people bitching about a youtube personality who had his whole fake studio room full of star wars collectibles and shit, and it's like duh you're watching a channel designed to get your to purchase star wars merchandise, it's a fucking ad. like you have to wonder if these people are so dumb they'd watch a late night infomercial in the 90s and complain that the host keeps trying to get them to order a new electric razor or something. seriously dumb.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 20:56:40 2022 No.20623619 >>20623594 as opposed to all the great culture in soviet countries, it was truly a renaissance of bronze lenin statues

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 21:05:17 2022 No.20623644 >>20623612 >Tu quoque

Anonymous Sun Jul 3 21:05:52 2022 No.20623647

>>20623612
Anons hate the commercialization because of the inane and demoralized literature that is pushed. This opinion is dogmatic with some of the anons in /wg/ and have become jaded to the extreme.
How are writers supposed to place forward a parallel narrative and counter-culture being a voice in the wilderness? We should just wait for this generation to die off before influencing the next? I don't like that plan.
Generalizing any desire to commercialize as an obsession for inane, mainstream appeal is short-sighted.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 21:06:55 2022 No.20623657 >>20623644 >i'm watching an influencer who is trying to sell me things >this is making me so angry! shut off the screen nerd

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 21:11:07 2022 No.20623677 >>20623477 it generally comes from artists who don't want to starve, and their rich patrons who keep them from starving

Anonymous Sun Jul 3 21:11:24 2022 No.20623678

>>20623647
some stuff against the spirit of the day does sell well that bronze age pervert book was popular enough to be included in a friggen audible sale next to atomic habits and becoming michelle obama. stop making excuses for your lack of success maybe your art just sucks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 21:54:19 2022 No.20623909 >>20623657 Seething

Anonymous Sun Jul 3 22:00:00 2022 No.20623940

nobody who's coping here has ever written anything. slaving away for nothing while whores and grifters get rewarded is just moronic. the truth is that art is dead and unless you are making a consumer product it's simply not worth it to make "art". I think the majority of people are making things that shouldn't be made anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 23:01:36 2022 No.20624212 >Entertaining Yes, all good art fits this criteria. >Sell Well I'm not sure who's saying this other than record label CEO's

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 3 23:03:27 2022 No.20624222 the language game of currency

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:09:10 2022 No.20625023 >>20623619 https://youtu.be/SWqvaMEFIdI

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:16:32 2022 No.20625046 >>20623594 Sorry, not a good enough excuse. 17th to early 20th century literature was still good so you're going to need to find an explanation that is a lot better than that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:22:40 2022 No.20625055 >>20625046 Mostly written by aristocrats, old money or pastors/monks

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:29:45 2022 No.20625078 >>20625046 Literature in those eras made a lot of money you moron, people like Voltaire and Victor Hugo were rich.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:35:57 2022 No.20625101 File: 25 KB, 280x270, 1653571960499.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20624222 Trips of truth

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:36:52 2022 No.20625104 >>20625078 both nobility, they were more or less freed from the capitalist paradigm of having to make profit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:38:41 2022 No.20625109 >>20625104 Absolute horseshit lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:39:06 2022 No.20625110 >>20625078 >Literature in those eras made a lot of money and...? I genuinely don't see what your point is... Also, Harry Potter sold a shitton if you aren't aware.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:46:00 2022 No.20625132 >>20625110 Anon, capitalist markets existed in the 17th-20th centuries, people had to sell stuff to survive then too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:49:35 2022 No.20625144 >>20623488 read less kant and more marx

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:50:35 2022 No.20625151 File: 55 KB, 1314x1054, 1656512183679.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20625132 Ok...? That was exactly my point was it not? I still don't get what you're getting at here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:51:05 2022 No.20625153 >>20625132 they were usually what marx calls unproductive laborers

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:52:42 2022 No.20625160 >>20625151 Have you read the fucking OP? Stop trolling you retard.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:53:05 2022 No.20625161

>>20625132
>>20625153
>For example Milton, who wrote Paradise Lost for five pounds, was an unproductive labourer. On the other hand, the writer who turns out stuff for his publisher in factory style, is a productive labourer. Milton produced Paradise Lost for the same reason that a silk worm produces silk. It was an activity of his nature. Later he sold the product for £5. But the literary proletarian of Leipzig, who fabricates books (for example, Compendia of Economics) under the direction of his publisher, is a productive labourer; for his product is from the outset subsumed under capital, and comes into being only for the purpose of increasing that capital. A singer who sells her song for her own account is an unproductive labourer. But the same singer commissioned by an entrepreneur to sing in order to make money for him is a productive labourer; for she produces capital.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:54:34 2022 No.20625166 >>20625144 That has to be about the shittiest piece of philosophical advice you could possibly give someone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:55:02 2022 No.20625168 >>20625161 Extremely cringe take from Marx, and I usually like the guy alot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:56:59 2022 No.20625176 >>20625161 marxism is so idiotic thank god only english departments still take this shit seriously

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 02:59:47 2022 No.20625192

>>20625160
>OP asks where the mindset that "All art must be entertaining and sell well" came from.
>Anon says "Capitalism".
>I point out that even during the height of Capitalism, literary standards where nothing like what we have today.
>You say, "nuh-uh, Capitalism existed back then too!".
Yeah, I don't see what you added exactly and honestly, you seem like the seething retard here, not me.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 03:01:32 2022 No.20625199

>>20625161
>A singer who sells her song for her own account is an unproductive labourer. But the same singer commissioned by an entrepreneur to sing in order to make money for him is a productive labourer; for she produces capital.

Unproductive in the materialist sense perhaps, but he still has to make money else he starves, just like everyone else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 03:05:59 2022 No.20625213 >>20625192 >literary standards where nothing like what we have today. But that's not what you asked. You asked where the mindset comes from that literature has to sell well and be entertaining, and the answer is capitalism.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 03:15:16 2022 No.20625253

>>20625213
>But that's not what you asked.
I'm not OP.
>You asked where the mindset comes from that literature has to sell well and be entertaining, and the answer is capitalism.
Lol, and where did this idea that literature should advanced "inclusivity", "representation", "equity", and "justice" come from? College lefties? Fact is, it's not the economic system that's being used that matters, it's the society's values that does. This is my point exactly.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 03:20:40 2022 No.20625269

>>20625253
>College lefties?

Yeah that's exactly from where.

>it's not the economic system that's being used that matters, it's the society's values that does.

Yeah and I'm sure people's opinions aren't shaped at all by the economic system lol. People just have a desire for Nike shoes written in their genetic code.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 03:24:20 2022 No.20625282

>>20625269
wearing athletic sneakers is only a recent development probably in the 70s or so, it's not like wearing athletic wear everywhere was somehow built into capitalism. after all since capitalism is sooo brutal and bad shouldn't we all bear wearing work books not nike air max shoes that feel like you're walking on a piece of god damn foam?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 03:29:21 2022 No.20625301

>>20625282
The point is that book publishers will accept whatever books they think will sell well practically regardless of its content, because the point is to turn a profit. If this means selling a feminist book, then so be it, and the same logic applies to the incel lord Michel Houllebecq, who conspicously hasn't been cancelled despite his "problematic" takes on contemporary society.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 04:11:43 2022 No.20625465 >>20625161 All materialists should be publicly executed

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 04:16:26 2022 No.20625486 >>20623477 Nowhere, you dumbfuck. If art has no value in the ability to garner attention, either negative or positive, its dull.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 04:18:08 2022 No.20625494 File: 37 KB, 454x520, marsoy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20625161 >unproductive labour is when you labour to produce something for not money. FFS, how did anybody ever take what this yid had to say seriously?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 04:22:01 2022 No.20625510

>>20625301
so what? you'd prefer kim jong il or the pope or somebody decides what's good enough to be published? today anything can be published worldwide for free thanks to capitalism. no one cares about your writing now and no one would have cared about it in ancient greece and no one will care about it on some mars plantation either.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 04:43:33 2022 No.20625581 >>20625199 nah, in order to be unproductive you have to have some independent source of income (e.g. a patron or family)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 04:51:31 2022 No.20625613 >>20625581 i should specify that this is if you're self-employed

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 07:00:46 2022 No.20625912 >y-you are supposed to make art on a loss because... because you have to, OK?! >I won't bother, I need to get paid if I work so hard >You don't care about art! I don't wanna pay! I only wanna pay for OnlyFans and chinkshit! REEEEEEEEEE!!!!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 07:02:43 2022 No.20625914 >>20623477 People who enjoy and sell art

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 07:06:37 2022 No.20625922

>>20623477
The fact that the greatest pieces of art were commissioned. You're not an artist because you're "going against the grain" (AKA being a lazy pleb who doesn't learn the fundamentals and thinjs they can jyst "innovate" their way through life) you're an artist when you make and sell art.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 07:06:50 2022 No.20625923

I will never understand why "capitalism" is the problem. I don't like the current instance of global capitalism very much, but nobody is forcing people to buy anything. If people only read smut and braindead shit and 50 Shades is a bestseller and Marvel Universe has replaced Kurosawa you the fuck can you blame "capitalism" if not for simply giving people what they want? The only way things would be different in a communist system would be that the movie propaganda would be toward the State instead of globohomo, as it happens in China.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 07:12:59 2022 No.20625931

I wish Marxists would stfu and listen to themselves for once. I figured out the bullshit when I was 14 and started to grow up. These guys just want to complain about their own inadequacy and how they shouldn't be held responsible/accountable. They don't actually want answers. They just want to dance around the obvious truth to try and recruit more to their hive-mind cult.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 07:13:51 2022 No.20625934

Another argument that makes me think that everyone who thinks artists should work on a loss had never produced anything of worth is that generally speaking, artists who produced seriously good work would dedicate their entire life to their craft. Working artists, musicians, writers, and other such craftsmen do not have a "stroke of genius" while jerking off and doing nothing, then they pen something magnificent in 2 hours and rake in the money. The default for working aritsts is dedicating pretty much all the time they have to their craft. That's how you produce good shit. It's literally impossible to make good art with "strokes of genius" unless you're someone who's getting pushed into the arts by your kike friends. Then yeah you can write a Rupi Kaur tier poem and rake in the money. But if you want to see art that sustains over time you're talking about art that pretty much consumes the entire life of the artist. You simply cannot demand that this sort of effort is not paid for. I am sorry, it just cannot happen. The artist cannot work 10 hours a day on his craft as a hobby without earning anything for it. So enjoy your propaganda and Marvel movies and porn scribbles and other stupid shit, you will never get good art again if you don't want to pay for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 08:32:40 2022 No.20626167 I imagine it predates history

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 09:21:03 2022 No.20626310 >>20623477 Of course it must not. But by the same token then, don't bitch when your shit doesn't sell and you can't make a living doing it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 09:32:31 2022 No.20626337 >>20623498 Anime is less commercial and mass-appealing than American TV.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 09:36:08 2022 No.20626345 >>20623477 Capitalism.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:00:11 2022 No.20626399

>>20623619
You're american, right? Only such debased people are so affected by in-group out-group mentality. Capitalism has turned art into an ad for an eventual funko pop. This is fact. Stating this fact does not mean you're a communist. That communists made "art" as propaganda for the state aparatus does not mean capitalism does not commodify "art". Also, as some other anon pointed out, the soviet film industry is also superior in every way to it's hollywood counterpart.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:10:37 2022 No.20626432 >>20626337 it's literal porn. there's no lower common denominator.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:12:56 2022 No.20626441 >>20626432 This comment says a lot about you but nothing about anime. You obviously spend way too much time on porn sites.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:18:21 2022 No.20626450

>>20626441
cope and seethe. not only weebshit but literally every single active "fandom" is about sex and imagining which character fucks who. give me one post 2010 anime or manga whose fandom doesn't run entirely on people drooling after the "cute" girls in it or some other sex related shit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:20:37 2022 No.20626454

>>20626450
What is there to cope and seethe over? You're objectively, ridiculously wrong. What you said isn't any different from saying that American movies are nothing but porn.

>give me one post 2010 anime or manga whose fandom
Now you're moving the goalposts to what you think the fandom is saying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:27:16 2022 No.20626476 >>20626399 lol there are like a dozen good soviet motion pictures and hundreds of american ones

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:29:00 2022 No.20626482

>>20626454
>moving the goalposts
seethe and you didn't make a name because you don't have one. if something's main draw is lusting after the CUTE WAIFUS or a constant rape festival and other fetish shit, it's porn. Fandoms are indicative of this and I pointed it out because otherwise you can just say "b-but it's a battle manga! that's what it says on the tin!"
99.9% of Japanese media is just low key porn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:30:18 2022 No.20626484 >>20626454 >American movies are nothing but porn. *propagand, yeah

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:30:59 2022 No.20626486

>>20626482
Again you are just moving the goalposts. First you said anime is all porn, now you're retreated to "well I think the fans are coomers." It's very clear you are totally ill-equipped to be talking about this at all.

>99.9% of Japanese media is just low key porn.
And I guess now you circled back to your original position, which is still objectively wrong.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:39:01 2022 No.20626503

>>20626486
>First you said anime is all porn, now you're retreated to "well I think the fans are coomers."
I am saying that if the fans of something are all fucking cumbrains then it means that the fucking thing itself is porn. I am not withdrawing my first statement you bad faith arguing cocksucker

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:41:27 2022 No.20626509

>>20626503
What you are really saying is that you don't know anything at all about the topic, so you're reduced to making extrapolations from what other people have said about the topic.

>you bad faith arguing cocksucker
Show me a single example of me arguing in bad faith and then explain why your "cope and seethe" retorts don't indicate bad faith.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:43:08 2022 No.20626516

>>20626486
>which is still objectively wrong.
can you look at the fucking OP pic here >>20620614 you dumb faggot? this is the popular seasonal battle manga
I see this literally all the time. MUH WAIFUS! I wanna breed her! There's zero actual content in this shit. If they could market porn to kids you wouldn't have a single gookshit production that isn't hardcore porn

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:44:13 2022 No.20626517 >>20623477 >art >must >sell gay retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:45:57 2022 No.20626518 >>20626509 >you didn't read that obscure manga about competitive basket weaving that sold two copies in Japan so you know nothing!!!! seethe harder. outside of popular seasonal shit it's even more obviously porn.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:46:51 2022 No.20626520

>>20626516
Go ahead and explain how Chainsaw Man is porn.

>I see this literally all the time. MUH WAIFUS! I wanna breed her! There's zero actual content in this shit.
You are merely extrapolating things from what other people have said and filtered it through your own prejudices. You have zero first hand experience with anime or any general knowledge of it.

>If they could market porn to kids you wouldn't have a single gookshit production that isn't hardcore porn
Why don't you prove everyone wrong and demonstrate that all anime not aimed at children is hardcore porn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:46:58 2022 No.20626521 >>20626517 kys commie

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:48:15 2022 No.20626523 >>20626520 >You are merely extrapolating things from what other people have said read, idiot: >>20626503

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:48:38 2022 No.20626525

>>20626486
i think that when that anon says "anime is all porn" he is refering to the fact that the majority of anime and manga are targeted toward coomers and make use of tropes which are predominantly seen in the porn industry: the anonimous protagonist, the women who are dumb and very whorish, the character's character is more based on a fetish than an actual character (like a woman who acts like she is from a femdom relationship with the protagonist) etc...
of course there are exception to the rule (some seinen mangas like those from junji ito) but they are rare and exceptions.
they dont seem like "standard seasonal anime".
i mean, wasnt there an anime which had literally a sex scene which was very very explicit? actually porn tier?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:50:56 2022 No.20626527

>>20626518
You don't know anything whatsoever about the topic. Your entire premise is absurdly incorrect and you have no possible way of proving it.

>>20626523
Again, extrapolation.

>>20626525
This isn't a majority or a rule, this is a minority of shows. But I guess we know now what kind of shows you prefer watching.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:52:48 2022 No.20626530 Why is Marvel so popular in China?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:54:25 2022 No.20626535

>>20626520
>chainsaw man is not porn
anon, in one of beginning chapters the protagonist asks his "hot waifu demon companion" if he can touch her boobs when he accomplishes his first mission.
AND SHE AGREES.
did you even read chainsaw man? that shit is so fucking coomer tier.
>inb4 that's an exception, it was for the memes
THE PROTAGONIST LARPS AS A DOG WITH HIS BOSS.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:54:59 2022 No.20626536 >>20623612 Autism unironically protects you from marketing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:55:19 2022 No.20626537 >>20626535 How does that make it porn?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:55:43 2022 No.20626538

>>20626525
>seinen mangas like those from junji ito
junji ito wouldn't sell a single page today. people love to praise berserk but after the author ran out of steam and ideas for his edgelord comic he only stayed afloat because he stuffed it with lolishit. from the very beginning Japanese media was leveraging mainly on porn over substance but at least there was some substance. today there's no substance at all, everything is a container for porn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:56:11 2022 No.20626539 >>20626527 >This isn't a majority or a rule, this is a minority of shows. i have to disagree anon. i dont watch anime, but if you have some that have no porn scenes, pls can you suggest me them? pls no slice of life nor shojo, too boring for me.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 10:58:48 2022 No.20626542

>>20626538
Tell me more about those porn anime shows that were on Japanese television in the 1960s and 1970s.

>>20626539
It's not a matter of opinion, and if you don't watch anime then what makes you think that you know so much about this?

>if you have some that have no porn scenes, pls can you suggest me them
The vast, vast majority do not have porn or porn-esque scenes.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:03:18 2022 No.20626551

>>20626537
>how can an underaged boy larping as a dog with a grown ass woman and an underaged boy squeezing the tits of an underaged girl be considered porn
i would put it in the "soft porn" category.
or soft "child pornography" to be more specific.
>>20626538
its true that they dont sell.
but some still exist.
its a huge pain in the ass to find them, but they are worth it.
ive cried in the ending of Blissful Land, but noone ever read it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:03:33 2022 No.20626552

>>20626542
>Tell me more about those porn anime shows that were on Japanese television in the 1960s and 1970s.
Tezuka was a massive cumbrain and he made several furry fetish movies. There's one with a catgirl that looks like something out of DeviantArt.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:06:19 2022 No.20626559

>>20626551
Do you actually know what porn is? Have you ever been to a porn site? This is a serious question.

>or soft "child pornography" to be more specific.
Child pornography requires children. It's right there in the name.

>its true that they dont sell.
>but some still exist.
>its a huge pain in the ass to find them, but they are worth it.
You don't read manga or watch anime. You have absolutely no clue about any of this.

>>20626552
So you can't tell me anything about these porn shows that were on Japanese television in the 60s and 70s?

Anonymouṡ Mon Jul 4 11:07:04 2022 No.20626561

>>20623477
All together now, folks. Don your finest robes of ranting and follow the bouncing ball:

NO PICTURE IS MADE TO ENDURE NOR TO LIVE WITH
BUT IT IS MADE TO SELL AND SELL QUICKLY

https://youtu.be/xn6r2Nm0ZMo?t=28

That said, art *should* be entertaining. Of course, that doesn't mean all good art will sell well when it's produced. Most people have poor taste, and sometimes it takes a while for even those with good taste to catch up with an artist.

But eventually, anything that's good will entertain the people who matter. A work of art with no capacity to delight is worthless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:09:02 2022 No.20626567 >>20626559 you have not made a single name, retard. the catgirl movie is "Bagi, the Monster of Mighty Nature" and it's blatantly fetishistic you are coping like a retard

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:09:18 2022 No.20626570

>>20626542
just give me some suggestions.
i was interested in dorohedoro. does dorohedoro have lolies or some degenerate shit in it?
or is it good?
my favourite mangas are: blissful land, bambino! and vagabond.
>you dont watch anime
true. i have better things to do. but if i find something interesting i watch it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:11:40 2022 No.20626578 >>20626567 Where is the cope? You are making an absurd claim that you cannot prove at all. The only one coping here is you. For the life of me I don't understand why you people keep starting these argument about shit you don't understand.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:17:02 2022 No.20626587

>>20626559
>You don't read manga or watch anime. You have absolutely no clue about any of this.
but i do watch some anime. and read manga (more mangas than anime).
you seem like a guy who reads manga. how does Blissful land end?
or we were talking about chainsaw man: where are the astronauts in the manga?
>Do you actually know what porn is? Have you ever been to a porn site? This is a serious question.
I said that shit is "soft" porn.
you keep talking about porn. why? do you disagree that that shit is soft porn?
>Child pornography requires children
true. the protagonist is underaged. his boss is not.
he larps as a dog, eats from her hands like a dog.
this is fetishistic behaviour, anon.
there are no explicit sexual content (hence the "soft" before child pornography), but the sexual content is still there nonetheless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:17:38 2022 No.20626591 >>20626570 >just give me some suggestions. thus dude is so defensive because he's a cumbrain, that's why he can't make a single name

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:19:30 2022 No.20626597 >>20626587 he's also probably one of the "it's just drawings" people, that's why he's pretending that obvious fetish shit isn't porn.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:21:05 2022 No.20626599

>>20626591
that's so fucking sad, anon.
you dont get how fucking thirsty i am for a good fantasy manga.
i have found only one manga which has nice drawings and 0 coombait: witch hat atelier.
and it's just 6 volumes.
it took me 2 days to finish.
i really need an expert in this field because even witch hat atelier is femminist propaganda.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:22:26 2022 No.20626601

>>20626587
If you had any clue about the topic you wouldn't be making ridiculous claims like all anime being porn.

>or we were talking about chainsaw man: where are the astronauts in the manga?
You said Chainsaw Man is porn which means you clearly have no idea what it is and it's just something you stumbled across just now and decided to label as porn because it's anime/manga.

>I said that shit is "soft" porn.
What you described doesn't even qualify as softcore porn, you're just trying to backpedal.

>you keep talking about porn. why?
Uh... gee, let's see... because you started claiming that all anime is porn?

>this is fetishistic behaviour, anon.
Fetishes are not porn.

>there are no explicit sexual content
So not porn then.

>>20626591
But you're not being "offensive," right? And what the hell does "make a single name" even mean in English?

>>20626597
They are just drawings, but I'm sure you're now going to claim that they are actually literally real life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:22:33 2022 No.20626602 >>20626597 at last, the faggot run away. i had my hopes he would pull out actually good hidden gems.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:23:32 2022 No.20626604 >>20626602 >he didn't reply to me instantly, so he must have run away! Holy shit get a grip.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:23:42 2022 No.20626605 >>20623647 >This opinion is dogmatic with some of the anons in /wg/ and have become jaded to the extreme Huh? I thought that /wg/ is just wallpaper reposting

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:27:20 2022 No.20626611 >>20626599 have you read Nausicaa?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:28:07 2022 No.20626614

>>20626601
>You said Chainsaw Man is porn which means you clearly have no idea what it is and it's just something you stumbled across just now and decided to label as porn because it's anime/manga.
ive read the whole manga, anon.
where are the astronauts, anon?
>What you described doesn't even qualify as softcore porn, you're just trying to backpedal
jesus, anon. so amouranth is not softcore porn by your standards.
>because you started claiming that all anime is porn?
I didnt, another anon did.
he is the one calling you a retard, cope and seethe and all that kind of stuff.
i want to get some good suggestions from you, anon.
you seem like you are an expert in the field.
give me some good anime or manga.
>Fetishes are not porn.
so you agree that it tries to appeal to an audience of fetishists?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:29:04 2022 No.20626617 >>20626611 (btw it's ironic that I'm the one making recommendations while the cumbrain who got his panties in a twist couldn't make a single name)

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:30:56 2022 No.20626623

>>20626614
Sure you did.

>jesus, anon. so amouranth is not softcore porn by your standards.
I don't know or care who or what Amouranth is, I am simply saying that what you described does not qualify as softcore porn.

>i want to get some good suggestions from you, anon.
I already told you:
>The vast, vast majority do not have porn or porn-esque scenes.

>so you agree that it tries to appeal to an audience of fetishists?
You must have some kind of brain disorder. Fetishes are not porn, therefore something being fetishistic does not make it porn, and therefore you have not proven that something is porn by claiming that it's fetishistic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:31:02 2022 No.20626625 >>20626611 no, i know it though: too scifi. also, dont suggest me any of the common ones. ive tried to find a decent fantasy manga for like 10 years.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:32:37 2022 No.20626632 >>20626614 this guy is going to argue that vore isn't porn because there's no.penetration, therefore it's just "fetish" shit, not porn. big difference since as we all know you can only jack off if there's ponos in vagoo

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:32:51 2022 No.20626633 >>20626617 Again, what the hell does "make a name" mean? And how about you show some proof that I'm a cumbrain. You're the ones going around claiming that anything and everything is porn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:33:59 2022 No.20626636 >>20626450 >newfags unaware of Rule 34

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:34:10 2022 No.20626637 >>20626632 I never said anything about vore, and before you brought up vore the thread was not in any kind of trajectory towards vore. It is a fact that something is not porn just because it contains fetishes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:36:01 2022 No.20626641 >>20626625 there are no decent fantasy manga. you're better off looking at Franco-Belgian comics, but I'm not an expert on those either.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:37:16 2022 No.20626646 >>20626641 You're not an expert but somehow you know that there doesn't exist any decent fantasy manga.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:38:38 2022 No.20626649

>>20626623
>Sure you did.
he eats the boss to stop her. but she is back as a loli.
the angel kills who he(she?) touches.
the (black haired) guy started smoking after his boss convinced him to.
the chainsaw is the mightiest of all demons.
the fox is one of the kindiest.
the boss is a demon who can control other people mind (more or less)
i did.
i dont know if you did. if you did, i just spoiled the whole thing for you.
>>The vast, vast majority do not have porn or porn-esque scenes.
yeah, but something to start with? it looks like you've seen a lot of the anime from last season. which ones do you suggest?
>I don't know or care who or what Amouranth is,
do you even use twitch?
>does not qualify as softcore porn.
true. my mistake. i have to agree: neither fetish nor softcore porn can describe an underaged boy squeezing the tits of an underaged girl.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:38:41 2022 No.20626650

>>20626637
>It is a fact that something is not porn just because it contains fetishes.
there's no penetration or genitals in vore, that's why I brought it up. the very people who create that shit call it porn. even a retard can piece this together, but somehow you don't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:39:42 2022 No.20626653 >>20626646 well you're not naming any so evidently I'm right? :^)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:41:20 2022 No.20626658 >>20626476 >I am exposed to more american media therefore it's better No american filmmaker was posessed by the same genius as Vertov, Eisenstein or Pudovkin.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:43:38 2022 No.20626664 >>20626641 i guess so. ironically, the problem with french people is that they dont have enough coombrains to scan every single comic and seed it on piratebay. >>20626646 anon says the truth. there is no good shit on the jap market for fantasy comics.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:43:57 2022 No.20626665

>>20626649
>yeah, but something to start with?
Your question is idiotic. The vast majority of anime are not porn. You do not need recommendations.

>do you even use twitch?
Do you think she has the only twitch channel and everyone is supposed to be familiar with her?

>true. my mistake. i have to agree: neither fetish nor softcore porn can describe an underaged boy squeezing the tits of an underaged girl.
Now you're trying to pivot to a "muh child porn" argument. Why don't you just give up and go home?

>>20626650
I do not care about your vore addiction.

>>20626653
What even made you think that you're right? Did you just hit your head and randomly start from the assumption that there cannot be any decent fantasy manga, and that everyone else is obligated to prove you wrong?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:44:24 2022 No.20626667

>>20626649
>do you even use twitch?
lmao you just reminded me of the whole vtuber phenomenon which is just porn being so popular that dudes are starting to use a voice changer and loli avatars to turn into digital ethots
we literally live in a coom world and in 2 generations tops there will be nothing else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:45:44 2022 No.20626674 >>20626667 Vtubers are not porn and don't use voice changers and the vast majority of them do not have loli avatars. This thread is a real gathering of top experts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:45:48 2022 No.20626675 >>20626665 name a comic or stfu you retarded cumnigger

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:47:12 2022 No.20626680 >>20626674 so how much do donate to your waifu's onlyfans every month? (non sexually ofc)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:47:19 2022 No.20626681 >>20626675 >name a random comic for some reason uuuhhhhhhhhh You need to get your brain checked by a qualified professional.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:48:20 2022 No.20626683 >>20626680 What waifu? What onlyfans? Please try to respond to people's posts and not the voices inside your head.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:49:24 2022 No.20626686 >>20626681 you literally cannot name a single comic that isn't about fetishes because that's literally all you know it's very amusing to see you weebfags squirm.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:49:59 2022 No.20626690

>>20626665
>You do not need recommendations.
no i need them. i havent watched any anime since shield hero (amazing anime, still coombait).
>everyone is supposed to be familiar with her?
i just watch theanimeman.
i love what he loves: 1000 years old vampires who act smug while having the body of a child.
>Why don't you just give up and go home?
i cant. i need a good anime to watch. pls give me suggestion pls.
lets start with dorohedoro: does it have coombait in it?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:51:40 2022 No.20626697

>>20626686
This is literallly some random brainfart you came up with that has no basis in anything I said.

>>20626690
No you do not.

>i just watch theanimeman.
>i love what he loves: 1000 years old vampires who act smug while having the body of a child.
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:52:48 2022 No.20626702 >>20626681 >>20626683 >schizo schizo take your meds!! lmao he's going all out. have YOU taken your meds anon? is that why you have amnesia and you can't name a single gookshit production that isn't aimed at chronic jerkoffs like you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:54:20 2022 No.20626707 >>20623678 Bro, I wasn't making excuses. I was criticizing anons for being defeatist and trying to hold people back to indie or self-publishing only. Of course anons can succeed that way but it shouldn't be the only way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:54:47 2022 No.20626709 >>20626697 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anime_Man his waifu is: https://bakemonogatari.fandom.com/wiki/Shinobu_Oshino you dont know who the fuck the anime man is, you dont know about his waifu or you dont know what bakemonogatari is?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:54:52 2022 No.20626710

>>20626702
You obviously have brain problems because your posts are so frequently incoherent.

>is that why you have amnesia and you can't name a single gookshit production that isn't aimed at chronic jerkoffs like you?
This is incoherent. This is not text that is produced by a brain that is functioning even half-normally. It's difficult to even respond to something like this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:55:33 2022 No.20626712 >>20626702 Meds don’t give you amnesia. Also a manga/anime that has no sex at all would be: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Comes_In_like_a_Lion

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:55:52 2022 No.20626715 >>20626709 I never said anywhere that I don't know who he is or that I'm not familiar with Monogatari (which you didn't previously even mention). Your thought process is competely incoherent.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 11:59:40 2022 No.20626727

>>20626715
you asked what i was talking about.
means you dont know one of the things stated above. which you just implied being the fact that the waifu of the anime man is a 1000 years old vampire who has the body of a child.
the thing is: the biggest twitch streamer who has a focus on anime content is a pedo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:00:53 2022 No.20626731 >>20623678 >stuff against the spirit of the day >bronze age pervert book that's perfectly in line with the Zeitgeist what the fuck are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:01:34 2022 No.20626732 >>20626697 really anon. give me some recommendations so i can watch some good shit tonight.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:05:11 2022 No.20626740 >>20626727 >is a pedo inb4 it's just drawings breh

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:05:51 2022 No.20626745

>>20626727
You just randomly said you watched The Anime Man and then something about 1000 year old vampires. You said this in response to me not being familiar with a female twitch streamer. This is incoherent. So I asked you what the hell you are talking about.

>means you dont know one of the things stated above
No. No it doesn't.

>the thing is: the biggest twitch streamer who has a focus on anime content is a pedo.
Having Shinobu as his waifu doesn't make him a pedophile, and what does this even have to do with anything? What is the point?

>>20626740
So you are saying that she isn't a drawing but is in fact a real person?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:07:27 2022 No.20626750 >>20626732 Ok, go watch Chargeman Ken. It's not porn, so it must be exactly what you're looking for.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:08:41 2022 No.20626752 >>20626740 He is actually one of them hahahaha

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:09:47 2022 No.20626754

>>20626745
>This is incoherent.
you are telling the same thing to at least 2 different people, but the only incoherent thing in this conversation is that you keep telling people they are wrong but you cannot make a single example to back it up. This anon did >>20626712 but he isn't you, you are just flailing and screeching.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:11:12 2022 No.20626758 >>20626750 Oh man... It's scifi. Can you give me something fantasy? Ive heard isekai is pretty big. I like it. But there is too much coombait. Is there something that is not coombait? Everything but scifi, pls.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:13:19 2022 No.20626761 >>20626752 fucking lol. every time man, every time >>20626750 Amazing you had to go all the way back to the 1970s. Have you watched it? Can you tell me about it?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:14:07 2022 No.20626762

>>20626754
>the only incoherent thing in this conversation is that you keep telling people they are wrong but you cannot make a single example to back it up
The longer a thread goes on, the more likely it is that someone will pull the "uuuhh actually you never made a single argument anywhere in this thread" card.

>you are just flailing and screeching
Where? How? What are you talking about? What are you even arguing about anymore?

>>20626758
Chaos Dragon is a shitty series nobody liked, but it's not porn so it must be right up your alley.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:15:33 2022 No.20626765 >>20626752 One of who? A person who does not think that anime characters are real? >>20626761 I didn't go back anywhere, I just picked a random garbage anime that came to mind. Your only criteria is that it shouldn't be porn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:16:09 2022 No.20626768 >>20626758 I'm the guy who's owning cumbrain-san. Why don't you like scifi man? Nausicaa isn't even really sci-fi, there are lots of fantastic elements and very little science. there's Mushishi but it's more Japanese foklore centered

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:17:09 2022 No.20626771 >>20626768 You aren't owning anyone other than yourself. And you still haven't given any argument as to how I'm supposedly a cumbrain. You're the one who's displaying an obsession with porn.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:20:24 2022 No.20626776

>>20626765
>>20626762
>Chaos Dragon is a shitty series nobody liked
I wonder why? All anime series are shitty after all
>but it's not porn
Oh I see lol! that's why nobody liked it right?
So.you only watch hentai and while you were coping it still took you hours to find something porn free and it's shit from the fucking 70s. I rest my case.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:22:17 2022 No.20626779

>>20626745
I was pointing out that the weeb community's most important spokeperson is a pedo.
I was pointing out that not knowing who amouranth is while being a big fan of weebshit on twitch would make you know the fact stated above.
Disagreeing with the fact that the producers dont think of shinobu as a sexualized child is wrong. https://m.it.aliexpress.com/item/32730275547.html
All these things makes you part of a fandom of which the leader is a pedo, the producers of the product make statues of an underaged girl in sexually arousing positions and you know all of this and still claim that it's not coombait?
Also, the thing about 1000 yo vampires having loli bodies is a meme.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:22:37 2022 No.20626781 >>20626771 >You're the one who's displaying an obsession with porn. You weebs are all cumbrains, I'm just pointing that out. Stop this retarded "I'm the rubber, you're the glue" faggotry.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:26:05 2022 No.20626797 >>20625144 Marx knew nothing about art. He thought Balzac was a good writer. Marxists in general are not very well-read. Engels knew ~11 languages and this is considered impressive among Marxists. They're not very cultured.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:26:56 2022 No.20626801 People who talk about manga on this board should be executed.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:27:32 2022 No.20626807

>>20626776
>All anime series are shitty after all
Another false claim based on nothing.

>Oh I see lol! that's why nobody liked it right?
Then why did people like Death Note, Cowboy Bebop and FMA: Brotherhood?

>So.you only watch hentai and while you were coping
I have never at any point said anything to even remotely suggest this.

>it still took you hours to find something porn free and it's shit from the fucking 70s.
I said from the start that your premise is idiotic. The vast majority of anime is not porn, and thus there is no reason to specifically ask for anime that isn't porn. So there was no reason for me to play into your delusions by suggesting anything. Once I eventually did, it was just the first shitty anime that came to mind. That it's from the 70s is completely irrelevant.

Your brain does not work.

>>20626779
Again, he is not a pedophile because he likes Shinobu. You seem to be projecting. And even if we suppose that he was a pedophile, what does that have to do with the thread?

>I was pointing out that not knowing who amouranth is while being a big fan of weebshit on twitch would make you know the fact stated above.
Why would I need to know who she is? What does she have to do with The Anime Man?

>Disagreeing with the fact that the producers dont think of shinobu as a sexualized child is wrong.
She's an anime character. If you want to discuss how much you're into little girls, I suggest /tv/.

>All these things makes you part of a fandom of which the leader is a pedo, the producers of the product make statues of an underaged girl in sexually arousing positions and you know all of this and still claim that it's not coombait?
As I said from the start, you are extrapolating things from your perception of the community because you don't actually know anything about anime itself.

>>20626781
You've done nothing to prove that I'm a cumbrain. So that means you're projecting.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:33:39 2022 No.20626832

>>20626807
>And even if we suppose that he was a pedophile, what does that have to do with the thread?
You have memory loss and low IQ from porn (anime) consumption, so I will help you: we were touching on the fact that art is transforming into a vehicle for addictions, e.g. porn in storytelling mediums, or videogames using gambling mechanics. Political art products that you can use for virtue signaling are how uou get a dopamine rush on social media. And so on.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:34:55 2022 No.20626836

>>20626832
Anime is not porn and you have done nothing to prove that it is.

>we were touching on the fact that art is transforming into a vehicle for addictions, e.g. porn in storytelling mediums, or videogames using gambling mechanics. Political art products that you can use for virtue signaling are how uou get a dopamine rush on social media. And so on.
What does this have to do with anything?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:36:08 2022 No.20626841 >>20626797 And be how many languages do you know?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:38:03 2022 No.20626849 >>20626836 >What does this have to do with anything? lmao you're such a fucking brainlet. You may be not arguing in bad faith but genuinely brain damaged if you can't see the connection. I give up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:38:38 2022 No.20626850 >>20626849 So you can't explain how it's relevant. That makes you the brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:44:22 2022 No.20626871 >>20626850 nta but if you can't see that a significant amount of shonen anime/manga feature highly idealised and often sexualised characters and situations that's your error

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:45:49 2022 No.20626881 >>20626871 How does his comment relate to idealized and sexualized characters? Why is this relevant only to shounen anime? How does any of this prove that anime is porn?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:47:05 2022 No.20626887
File: 381 KB, 1125x1600, chapter_11_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20626762
>chaos dragon is not porn
I have to specify: i dont want to watch child porn either.
https://www.amazon.it/Chaos-Dragon-Pittura-Tessuto-Parete/dp/B014SAGUTM
Is it actually not porn?
Pic rel is witch hat atelier
>>20626768
Arent there guns? It's just that ive never read a lot of scifi, so i always have this assumption that i should first read the classics to enjoy the current things.
>>20626807
She is what people usually call "softporn shoved forcefully down our throats". I used it as an example of what i mean when i say "softporn".
I tried to go back to the discussion about anime smoothly. Sorry if it wasnt clear.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:47:17 2022 No.20626888 >>20626871 it's no use, anon, he's braindead. leave him be.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:47:41 2022 No.20626891 >>20623535 Respond to this OP.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:48:50 2022 No.20626898

>>20626881
i'm not the one arguing that 'all anime is porn', though i'm not sure that was ever the point. obviously 'idealised and sexualised characters' appearing in anime/manga is relevant to a discussion of pornographic representations in anime/manga, and shounen anime being a significant portion of the industry makes it, specifically, a primary talking point in this discussion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:49:31 2022 No.20626899 >>20626881 Listen anon, im this >>20626887 anon. Anime is porn is what is called an hyperbole. Are you autistic? Because it looks like you are not able to go beyond the literal meaning?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:52:15 2022 No.20626908 >>20626899 >Anime is porn is what is called an hyperbole I didn't mean ut as hyperbole. It's literally made to jack off to, that's what porn is.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:53:16 2022 No.20626913

>>20626887
I didn't suggest any child porn to you, nor is there any child porn to be found in anime, so why would you suddenly start talking about child porn?

>She is what people usually call "softporn shoved forcefully down our throats".
Have you tried not watching her channel?

>>20626888
No, you're braindead.

>>20626898
"Idealized" has nothing to do with porn specifically unless you are someone who just thinks about porn constantly and interprets everything through porn. Sexualization is everywhere in media and a part of human nature.

>and shounen anime being a significant portion of the industry
Those shounen anime are a drop in the ocean. They are a couple of shows. It's your own tunnel vision that makes them seem much more significant than they actually are. And in terms of sexual content they are extremely tame compared to some other anime.

>>20626899
So now you've backpedaled all the way to "I was just doing a bit of hyperbole." But it doesn't work even as an exaggeration.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:54:33 2022 No.20626917 >>20626908 You are just obsessed with jacking off.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:56:12 2022 No.20626922 >>20626913 >nor is there any child porn to be found in anime HAHAHAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:56:44 2022 No.20626924 File: 68 KB, 864x599, 2C73D4D0-0BF9-4660-BFBE-3504AABEAD7C.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20626399 And what country are you from friend?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:57:02 2022 No.20626925 >>20626922 I meant exactly what I said. What of it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:57:37 2022 No.20626928 >>20626913 >It's your own tunnel vision that makes them seem much more significant than they actually are but in order to name something not pornographic you had to go all the way back to 70s shows you didn't even watch

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 12:58:35 2022 No.20626932 >>20626928 We already went over this and you have no new arguments to add, so what exactly are you trying to do here?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:00:32 2022 No.20626939

>>20626908
>I didn't mean ut as hyperbole.
Ok
>It's literally made to jack off to,
I agree with you on this
>that's what porn is.
Porn stands for "pornoGRAPHIC". Or at least that's what >>20626881 anon means by "anime is not porn".
You mean that porn is anything that makes you stimulates your desire to fuck. You choose your words incorrectly.
To be more specific, anime is erotica, but not porn.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotica
I hope you agree with this sentence. I hope that anon agrees with this meaning.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:00:40 2022 No.20626940 >>20626925 i think your judgment and perception are genuinely impaired or you've been arguing in bad faith this entire time

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:01:42 2022 No.20626943 >>20626939 Anime is not erotica either. >>20626940 You are projecting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:01:54 2022 No.20626944 >>20626932 I don't have to try anything. I gave up on you because you're too dense. I'm just watching you chimp out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:02:23 2022 No.20626948 I swear to god you retards are just hellbent on making your lives miserable aren't you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:03:05 2022 No.20626951 >>20626943 can you just say one more time with a straight IRL face that there is no child pornography in anime and there aren't idealised/sexualised representations in anime

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:03:23 2022 No.20626952 >>20626939 >porn is anything that makes you stimulates your desire to fuck. purpose made for stimulating people that way it's all porn. erotica is just an euphemism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:04:20 2022 No.20626957 >>20626913 >Have you tried not watching her channel? I exclusively watch lobosjr and cohhcarnage. >I didn't suggest any child porn to you Have you seen what i linked? >But it doesn't work even as an exaggeration. Why not?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:07:13 2022 No.20626965

>>20626943
>>20626952
Kek. Well, now we know where the disagreement lies.
One anon doesnt see how can people be aroused by someone squeezing the tits of a female, the other thinks that erotica is just an euphemism.
Now, anons. How can we prove if anime is porn erotica or neither?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:07:19 2022 No.20626967

>>20626944
You have no arguments against what I said. You just pretend that I didn't say it.

>I'm just watching you chimp out.
This is not happening. You are either delusional or lying.

>>20626951
There is no child porn in anime. What about it?

>>20626957
>Have you seen what i linked?
What about it?

>Why not?
Porn in anime is an almost completely separate business that releases straight to video and rarely and recently on some TV channels.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:08:19 2022 No.20626973 >>20626965 The vast majority of anime is not porn. The vast majority of anime is not erotica. Anime is not any one single thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:08:44 2022 No.20626976 >>20626967 >There is no child porn in anime. What about it? that is demonstrably false

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:08:50 2022 No.20626977 I genuinely think we live in the end times.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:10:37 2022 No.20626985 >>20626976 No it isn't, and you haven't been able to demonstrate a single one of your wild claims in this thread.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:22:35 2022 No.20627027

>>20626965
Let's use this as a way to see which one has porn erotica or neither in it. https://reelrundown.com/animation/top-10-most-popular-anime-of-all-time
>Dragon Ball
Goku touches the pussy of an underaged girl without her consent while she sleeps.
>One Piece
https://youtu.be/oQseNfF8FkI
Pokemon
Neither: its a child cartoon (ive never seen it tho).
>Naruto
https://youtu.be/SeJlaEeBy0U
>Death Note
Nothing: it is a good manga. Maybe some fagbait with L drying the feet of Light.
>Detective Conan
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J4eRM12b5yA
>Attack on Titan
A guy gets food pumped into his ass.
>Sailor Moon
https://sailormoon.fandom.com/wiki/The_Beach,_the_Island_and_a_Vacation:_The_Guardians%27_Break
>Fullmetal Alchemist
Nothing. The manga was written by a woman.
>Sword Art Online
The girl thinks the protagonist wants to fuck her. Gets angry because he wouldnt.
Aaaaand rape scene.

How would you describe each of these scenes?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:24:37 2022 No.20627038 >>20627027 Something is not porn or erotica just because it contains some sort of sexual content. >Nothing. The manga was written by a woman. Now try Kodomo no Jikan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:41:54 2022 No.20627102 >>20625922 >Appeal to history

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 13:45:39 2022 No.20627123 >>20626922 It's the truth. Child porn is a legal term and it has to involve real children. Not fake cartoon characters, you moron.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:00:42 2022 No.20627185 >>20627123 https://www.bayarea-attorney.com/can-you-be-charged-with-child-pornography-for-looking-at-animation#:~:text=To%20clarify%2C%20under%20federal%20law,or%20marketing%20of%20such%20material.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:08:13 2022 No.20627219
File: 46 KB, 862x703, 1654177986654.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20627185
Lol. Retard. It's not illegal, it has to involve someone real. You don't know anything about the actual law.
(9) “identifiable minor”—
(A) means a person—
(i)
(I) who was a minor at the time the visual depiction was created, adapted, or modified; or
(II) whose image as a minor was used in creating, adapting, or modifying the visual depiction; and
(ii) who is recognizable as an actual person by the person’s face, likeness, or other distinguishing characteristic, such as a unique birthmark or other recognizable feature; and
(B) shall not be construed to require proof of the actual identity of the identifiable minor.
(10) “graphic”, when used with respect to a depiction of sexually explicit conduct, means that a viewer can observe any part of the genitals or pubic area of any depicted person or animal during any part of the time that the sexually explicit conduct is being depicted; and
(11) the term “indistinguishable” used with respect to a depiction, means virtually indistinguishable, in that the depiction is such that an ordinary person viewing the depiction would conclude that the depiction is of an actual minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct. This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256#1
https://www.justice.gov/osg/brief/ashcroft-v-free-speech-coalition-merits

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:14:59 2022 No.20627265 >>20627102 not him but if this is fallacious then appealing to the fact that a few artists in modern times died penniless or allegedly went through poverty before being ((((discovered)))) posthumously shouldn't count either

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:35:22 2022 No.20627358 >>20625922 People like you are the reason why art nowadays is dead. The best pieces of art came from people who made them irrespective of money or not. Van Gogh, Moby Dick, The Thing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:36:23 2022 No.20627362 >>20627265 Artwork should get made irrelevant of money. This is what capitalism does to your brain.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:41:34 2022 No.20627387

>>20627362
tell that to michaelangelo and donatello while they're working on commissions for the medici, fucking idiot. the ironic thing is this whole "art should be done regardless of money" only became a thing during capitalism. historically art that is made "irrelevant of money" by amateurs is "folk art" and it's mostly only of interest to anthropologists and archaeologists because it sucks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:44:00 2022 No.20627395 >talentless 4chuds romanticize starving artist maymay cause they're NGMI

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:47:12 2022 No.20627406 File: 55 KB, 612x408, 20220624_184811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20627387 Yeah. I'm just gonna say here that you have no idea what art is and that capitalism has fully rotted your brain.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:48:50 2022 No.20627414

>>20625581
>nah, in order to be unproductive you have to have some independent source of income (e.g. a patron or family)
Marx's definition doesn't assume that even if that's the case for most "unproductive labour". According to Marx's definition TempleOS was unproductive labour but Terry A. Davis wasn't an aristocrat or something.
Also, I don't see how making something for a patron is so much different for making something for the hoipoloi if the goal for the artist is still just money. Stupid term and useless distinction. Just call them sellouts lmao, your economic theory doesn't have to analyze this shit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:50:07 2022 No.20627420
File: 55 KB, 612x408, 20220624_184811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20627387
So Donatello wasn’t an artist until he started getting commissions? Money didn’t make art art faggot, either the work is art or it isn’t. Exterior factors have nothing to do with you. You industry fags are not the arbiters of the creative process.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:52:56 2022 No.20627435 >>20627387 Most great art has been capitalist or proto-capitalist.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:55:07 2022 No.20627443

>>20627420
>So Donatello wasn’t an artist until he started getting commissions?
yes that's how art worked in renaissance italy. you work as an apprentice helping out a pro artist and then eventually start taking paid gigs. do u think donatello was posting pics on twitter for free building up a following before cosimo hit him with some work? the copes of wannabe artists are just sad and ahistorical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:57:06 2022 No.20627453 >>20627420 Donatello worked in an atelier since he was a little fucking kid. Based hypercapitalism training young boys to be homos and make timeless art for pay.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:57:42 2022 No.20627454
File: 51 KB, 500x375, 1007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20627435
huh? ancient egypt was closer to soviet command economy than capitalism and there's plenty of art produced there. none of the artists worked for free though they worked for the state.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 14:58:59 2022 No.20627458

>>20627362
>Artwork should get made irrelevant of money.
I think the artists get to decide about this. You are just as stupid as people who complain that companies who quit selling their software straight and switch to a free model are now also selling your data. Do you understand that people need returns for what they do? Have you never worked a day in your life?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:02:33 2022 No.20627477 >>20627454 Wow you're right, I guess all great in the entire world was communist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:06:25 2022 No.20627494 >>20627477 my point is real artists get paid for their work. amateur artists shill their bad novels on 4chan.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:06:35 2022 No.20627495

>>20627477
you know how it is anon: if it succeeded, it was communism, if it did not succeed, it was capitalist. capitalism bad, communism good (but we have not tried real communism yet).
you can also tell that anon is a commie because he said that the slaves "worked for the state"

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:09:56 2022 No.20627522

>>20625494
Why did anti-marxists take his words so closely to heart? Adam Smith considered homemaking productive work, Marx says that anything other than making coffee for Mr. Shekelburg is unproductive. So why do so many self-proclaimed capitalists talk about increasing employment rates among women, when in reality they're moving from one field of employment to another?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:10:25 2022 No.20627524

>>20627494
NTA but that's a weird way to make that point then, you could have just brought up any known artist who lived before the late XIX century. The whole starving artist meme is a product of the industrial revolution. Everyone before then was paid for his art, you don't have to go as far back as the Egyptians.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:11:58 2022 No.20627537 >>20627443 the greatest success stories of commissioned artists are from the people who dedicated decades to improving, often without any sort of pay, until they get discovered and start getting commissions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:15:11 2022 No.20627556 >>20627537 repeating a lie several times does not make it true

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:17:26 2022 No.20627566 >>20627537 again, they were apprentices in established workshops. read a fucking art history book, god. how can i tell your writing sucks you ask?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:18:49 2022 No.20627569 File: 39 KB, 600x338, raw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20626337 >anime is less commercial are you fucking kidding me anon? its commercial on steroids hence its success.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:21:15 2022 No.20627583 >>20627569 It's made for smaller, more niche audiences and takes more risks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:21:37 2022 No.20627585 >>20627569 >the japanese equivalent of hollywood isn't commercial ok 4chan is too stupid to post i can't anymore

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:21:46 2022 No.20627586 >>20627556 >>20627566 It is true though. Money doesn't make the artist you colossal faggot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:23:05 2022 No.20627590 >>20627583 You have no clue about how anime series are commissioned and funded. Typical clueless weeb.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:25:03 2022 No.20627595 >>20627566 >How can I tell your writing sucks you ask? This is wholly ironic, coming from someone who can't even use proper punctuation, grammar or even capitalization correctly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:25:54 2022 No.20627602 >>20627590 I know way more about the topic than you do, and you aren't helping your credibility by calling me a weeb.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:26:16 2022 No.20627606 >>20627586 >It is true though. >>20627556

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:35:49 2022 No.20627650 >>20627606 Where's the lie, retard? Money doesn't make something art or not art.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:55:32 2022 No.20627738
File: 65 KB, 962x718, 59246713-10931123-_Summertime_Ms_Weyant_s_portrait_of_a_woman_with_long_flowing_ha-a-1_1655615896417.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20627650
money is a good signal of quality though. anna weyant was selling paintings on the beach for $400 a few years ago, now she's represented by and dating gagosian and pic related just sold for like 1.5 mil at auction. if you're good, you're good, and, well, you're not good.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:57:05 2022 No.20627744 >>20627738 Do you think Vincent Van Gogh paintings are good?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:58:52 2022 No.20627752 >>20627744 actually, no, but i pretend they are.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 15:59:25 2022 No.20627753

>>20627650
I will give you five facts:
>Making good art takes a lot of time.
>You do not get to eat if you do not work, unless you're already rich or a specific kind of cripple. I don't know how getting NEETbuxx works.
>If you do not pay artists, you will only get the work of amateurs because they are the only people who will be content making art with no effort or commitment. Enjoy the landslides of free DeviantArt tier shit you will never want to sift through to find good art (because not only you do not want to pay, you do not even want to put in the work to find good art. You want it to be given to you). The irony in this doubles when you will understand that the "free" art is made for a goal as well, like getting likes and compliments, and this means that the majority of it will be insincere.
>If you expect corporations and other money-making entities, or governments to pay the artists in your stead, well you're shit out of luck because they will not give you art. What they will do is hire the artists to produce propaganda, or lowest common denominator garbage. In either case, it's not something that will enrich you but something that will be used to oppress you instead.
This is the current situation. If you dislike it, do not complain. If you like things as they are, well enjoy yourself. It's absolutely retarded to expect someone to work on something at a loss so you can enjoy some free entertainment, because of your retarded idea of "passion". Yeah man, passion dies out. Even love dies out when you understand that it's over and unreachable. You understand this, right? If your love is unrequited you do not fucking kidnap the girl. You resign and move on. Artists are moving on because there's no way to work as much as one should to produce good art without getting paid for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:04:11 2022 No.20627772 >>20627738 There is no good reason for that painting to be worth anywhere near that much, and if you are the right person you can literally shit on the floor and it'll be worth millions.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:08:23 2022 No.20627791

>>20627772
>>20627738
I don't understand why people can't process any idea of money outside of selling a sketch for 200 trillion dollars or literally starving. When I argue with people I'm talking about literally making a living, earning enough to pay bills and to eat. This is almost impossible today even if you're willing to die alone without pets in a single room apartment. What happens realistically is that you're going to burn out while working a day job and quit. The only people who manage to avoid this are people who are getting paid, and the people who get paid make porn or weaponize their crotch for (you)s or some other garbage. Even people who have actual merit need to know someone and jump through weird hoops because the system itself is so fucked.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:08:37 2022 No.20627792 >>20627772 cope. things are worth what people will pay for them.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:11:00 2022 No.20627801

>>20627791
dude most artist work as adjuncts or if they're lucky professors teaching art classes and then occasionally sell something at a show or get a grant to make something. that's how the "working class" of artists live. the fact that you don't know this shows you aren't very involved in art in any serious way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:11:32 2022 No.20627804 >>20627792 Cope. I don't care.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:15:18 2022 No.20627821

>>20627801
most artists work as freelancers getting whatever jobs they can, including teaching if it's possible. what kind of art are you even talking about? you know that "fine art" is a different environment than fantasy art for elf games, right? the former is about sucking dick, the latter is mostly done over the internet

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:22:08 2022 No.20627856

>>20627821
That's what a lot of artfags don't realize. If you want to make a living solely from your art you have to become a hustler. I worked with a broad that loved photography but gave it up as a career because she couldn't hack it as a freelancer for AP Reuters and paparazzi shit. I still make a living doing photo shit and my skills are mediocre and I don't have any ounce of passion for photography it's just an easy way to make money.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:24:53 2022 No.20627875

>>20627792
Menger proposed that all that all commodities, which Marx inherited from, should be judged based on individual perception of utility, following this, if everything is judged according to individual value judgements, this can bleed over into things such as metaphysics and ethics and sap the entire world of meaning. In short, everything should be judged on objective terms as essential goods and services that everyone should participate in, independent of ones personal views.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:27:44 2022 No.20627886 >>20623612 Imagine being so deep in consoomerism that you can’t imagine a person who isn’t also just as addicted.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:28:05 2022 No.20627888

>>20627856
>If you want to make a living solely from your art you have to become a hustler
The problem isn't just this; the problem is that you have to be a hustler but you don't even get to make the art you want to make. You get nothing at all. You either suck cock to become a drone for an industry or a porn peddler, or you make art "for yourself" which means doing it as a hobby after you wageslave with zero prospects of gaining anything for it, and I'm not talking about money or recognition but anything at all. You're just throwing your time to the wind. Why even do it when you can do other things? What is even the point? What does it even matter that you say something or not if it's 100% guaranteed that it won't reach anyone's ears unless you "become a hustler" and change the words into something else entirely? What's the fucking point.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:29:05 2022 No.20627895 >>20627753 >Cope cope cope Didn't read.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:29:12 2022 No.20627898 >>20623477 Capitalism

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:29:15 2022 No.20627899 >>20627856 Where I'm from hustler means drug dealer or prostitute.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:30:22 2022 No.20627906

>>20627886
>>20623612
do people seriously see youtube shills and not think, not even for a second, that the dude is paid to shill a product? I mean those who follow the law will say that they've been gifted the item by the company, doesn't that sort of spark the thought that they may be given the product to shill it, that it's some kind of marketing thing.... are people seriously this braindead?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:31:15 2022 No.20627908 >>20627821 >fantasy art for elf games yes capitalism has truly ruined fantasy art for elf games!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:31:27 2022 No.20627910 >>20627899 >dealer or prostitute 99% of artists are literal prostitutes getting paid for remote blowjobs, so that fits.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:35:15 2022 No.20627927

>>20627886
r/consumeproduct, where op's image came from, was a sub where guys who hang out on reddit all day get mad that reddit is a big advertisement for pop schlock. it's like if you think superhero movies suck and you can't fit anymore star wars toys in your house, fucking log off reddit. now that they were finally forced off reddit against their will lol it's now all just christian fascists blaming iron man movies on a conspiracy to degenerate western civilization or something. the fact that you look at people like that and think they have good ideas says a lot. and no i don't have a reddit account but people like op would crosspost their memes on here so i looked at it.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:35:20 2022 No.20627928

>>20627908
what the fuck are you talking about? I have never said anything about capitalism. I am saying that if you want people to produce true SOVLful art or whatever meme you wanna call it, you have to pay them for that. As long as people will keep coping with "oh yeah art should be made out of LE PASSION alone" all you will get is garbage and that's a fact, because the only people who will actually make it through to sustain themselves with art will be hustlers are grifters. This seems to be incredibly difficult to grasp. People can screech about passion all they want, in the end there is absolutely nothing that will force artists to keep working on art instead of earning actual money with other work that gets food in their mouth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:38:56 2022 No.20627952 >>20627928 the passion shit is a meme artists push so they don't appear as mercenary as they are. andy warhol was a fantastic marketer probably because he worked as a fashion illustrator when he first got to new york.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:42:27 2022 No.20627965 >>20627952 you forgot about autists

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:43:04 2022 No.20627970 >>20627927 They aren't wrong about there being a conspiracy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:45:14 2022 No.20627976 >>20627927 dilate that second anus, you retarded head of cattle

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:46:17 2022 No.20627984 >>20627952 >andy warhol was a fantastic marketer these people literally got pushed by the government as propaganda

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:50:46 2022 No.20628007

>>20627970
>>20627976
anti-capitalist types always fall into conspiracy thinking both right and left instead of realizing it's just an emergent property of humans that comes from technological advances. the ancient babylonians loaned people resources to deploy for production. everything since is just improving efficiency.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:52:39 2022 No.20628010 >>20627984 ok maybe warhol learned to make his own magazines and tv shows to shill himself from the cia rather than the fashion industry if that's what you believe, doesn't matter, he was good af at promoting himself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 16:58:19 2022 No.20628029 >>20628007 I'm not anti-capitalist and there isn't anything natural or inevitable about this.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 17:02:44 2022 No.20628053

>>20628010
>he was good af at promoting himself
I hate this sentence so much. It's like saying that Pablo Escobar was successful because he was a good businessman. Yeah no shit he fucking shot the competition in the fucking head. What the fuck does this meme sentence even mean anymore? Are all the whores that gain extra points by showing their fucking tits on the internet also "marketing themselves"? What the fuck does it even mean at this point?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 17:06:39 2022 No.20628072 >>20628029 it happened. what's unnatural are idealist things that exist only in fantasy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 17:14:51 2022 No.20628112 >>20628072 >it happened This isn't a justification.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 18:18:13 2022 No.20628490

>>20628053
what stupid comparisons
in warhol's case, he was a successful commercial illustrator, then a freelance illustrator, before he became an artist in his own right. he networked with the right people and made contacts in the industry. if he was alive today, he would have a million contacts on linkedin.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 18:32:07 2022 No.20628556 >>20628490 >if he was alive today, he would have a million contacts on linkedin. that's for sure. still a hack though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 19:09:40 2022 No.20628729 It’s a hard pill to swallow, but the masses have never given a shit about ‘deep’ ‘thought-provoking’ art

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 19:55:37 2022 No.20628953 >>20628729 I wish it was just that. At least you'd be able to give them well-crafted, honest entertainmnent. But people really just want the most braindead shit that society doesn't look down upon.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 19:57:56 2022 No.20628971

>>20628729
Generally true, though I feel it's definitely gotten worse.
I often think about how 15 years ago No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood were competing for Best Picture. Even though I was only around 12-years-old at the time I remember it being a fairly big deal. Nowadays a similar film (if it were even produced) wouldn't even hit the major movie theater chains. Nobody gives a shit, and the few middlebrow films still being made are now seen as unapproachable by the mainstream (see: jokes about The Last Duel at this year's Oscars)

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:05:10 2022 No.20629015

>>20628971
I don't understand how did things get so bad in such a short time. I feel like an alienated old man but I'm only 30. People are so alien now, I don't understand them anymore. I get this really deep, dark depression after interacting with younger people for an extended period.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:09:32 2022 No.20629031 >>20623477 Is this a joke? The mona lisa was made on demand

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:39:36 2022 No.20629184 >>20629031 Money is irrelevant to art.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:45:12 2022 No.20629210 >>20629184 >Money is irrelevant to art. A tube of Cadmium Red costs $30

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:48:43 2022 No.20629222 >>20629210 ohhh shit I think I understand what Pablo meant with "great artists steal", he wasn't talking about ideas, he was talking about paints and probably food!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:57:09 2022 No.20629253 >>20629222 >Hurrr durrr strawman

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 20:58:05 2022 No.20629261 >>20629253 where the fuck do you get the money if money isnt relevant to art?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:02:22 2022 No.20629276 >>20629261 You do realize that not all artists make money off their work, correct?

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:04:08 2022 No.20629283

>>20629276
I think you're using a very loose definition of artist if you say so. Do you also include all the people drawing Mario inflation pictures on DeviantArt? What do you mean with "artist"? For example I think that people who make porn are not artists but prostitutes, no matter how beautifully they craft their whoredom.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:07:59 2022 No.20629301 >>20629283 >Hurrr durrr I will now arbitrarily classify the definition of an artist hurrrrr

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:10:50 2022 No.20629315

>>20629301
if you do not define what "artist" means it could be anything. There are people who think that every kid who scribbles with a crayon is an artist. when you're talking about art this is fairly important. what do you mean with "artist"? Do you think that art is everything that hits a screen, or is it something that had a certain craft and skill behind it and has the ability to impact people in ways other than grabbing their dick or some other monkey brain neuron activation shit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:13:37 2022 No.20629327 >>20625486 >Forgotten and underrated classics don't exist apparently

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:15:33 2022 No.20629341 >>20629315 Retards like you are the people that are killing art.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:23:48 2022 No.20629390 >>20629315 Anyone who creates using human expression.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:24:51 2022 No.20629400

>>20629327
the funny thing is that talking about this subject in terms of pre-internet history is absolutely pointless. you mention "forgotten" works; yet even those "forgotten" works were part of a consciousness in their time. There wasn't so much material that they'd be completely lost. This is the case with this era. Yeah, sure, your work will exist in form of kilobytes somewhere on the internet, far more permanently than some manuscript rotting away in an old house, but it will have never belonged to any public consciousness and it will simply never exist anywhere. if something is not relevant it simply disappears and once it belongs to the maelstrom of random shit that people produce in droves it will be as if it never existed.
>>20629341
tell me why, because this subject is extremely dear to me, in fact I'm obsessed with it. why am I "killing art" by setting a rather strict definition for it? I did not say that art is about reaching an intellectual elite. I simply said that art is work that has an ability to impact people on a human level, and this involves skill and labor. And that's with things like writing, or painting which is still relativele cheap although still rather expensive if you do it traditionally, see >>20629210. If you start looking at more modern forms of art, say cinema, or videogames (if you consider them an art-worthy medium) you're already looking at budgets that are beyond what a person can manage. Unless you're some rich guy's son and he really loves giving you money, good luck funding that shit out of your pocket. I've seen some very soulful stuff here and there made by people in their spare time, but they never expanded on it. Why? Because you can only allocate so much time to something that won't pa you back. These talented people then proceeded to work on more commercial projects that I didn't care for. Are these people also greedy shits who are killing art? I think they just wanna eat. I think with the state of things right now, if you're not making porn or sucking cock in other ways you're already a fucking hero of the arts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:27:14 2022 No.20629407 >>20629390 so my shitposts on 4chan are art and the random greeting card I wrote last year is also art, when I make a joke while drunk at a party that's also art, and so on. basically everything is art, so nothing is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:32:22 2022 No.20629431 >>20629407 Yes. You don't get to gatekeep what art is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:34:37 2022 No.20629440 >>20629431 but I'm the one killing them lol enjoy your banana taped to a wall, retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:36:11 2022 No.20629450 >>20629440 What is your qualifications for art? I'd love to hear how backwards and easily rebutted they'll be.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:42:14 2022 No.20629478

>>20629450
>What is your qualifications for art?
do you even read my posts before screeching?
>art is work that has an ability to impact people on a human level
if you want me to expand on this, what I mean is that art is about infecting another human with human experience he does not possess, not monkey brain stimuli aimed at extorting a reaction out of him. The main property of art is that it is additive and enriching, rather than something that drains and enslaves. The vast majority of art made today is not enriching at all, it's a sugar rush. It does not built into anything.

Anonymous Mon Jul 4 21:52:07 2022 No.20629521

>>20629015
Smartphones. Not even shitting you. Carrying the Internet in your pocket. Outsourcing all thought. Negative feedback loops from social media apps. It's not just kids either. I'm going on 40 and the kids and boomers (real boomers by definition) have more in common with each other than somebody who doesn't use smartphones at all. It's shocking how nearly everybody switches beliefs overnight now. Quite disturbing. They don't know where Ukraine is today. Tomorrow they're flying the flag and calling you a piece of shit because you're not doing the same. The only reason I even bother sharing this point of view here is because there are a few anons like me that know this is all true. The rest of you are not human anymore. Never getting vaccinated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 22:01:48 2022 No.20629559 >>20629521 yeah it's true. guess I'm just fucked.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 22:03:19 2022 No.20629565 >>20629478 >>20629478 You could expand that definition to fit literally anything. Good to know that I was right.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 22:11:03 2022 No.20629597 >>20629565 >You could expand that definition to fit literally anything no but I'm genuinely too tired to keep arguing pointlessly

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 4 23:49:40 2022 No.20629962 >>20626450 Baki. The manga is very old but the anime is post 2010 and has a fandom of its own.

Anonymous Tue Jul 5 02:55:07 2022 No.20630627

>>20629962
I was thinking about 3 manga while arguing with that retard: Baki JoJo and One Piece. But as you said, they're old. I don't know if anybody would give a shit about JoJo if it were made today. The newer shit like OPM is waifus waifis waifus. They obviously need those otaku buxx to stay afloat, my guess is that young Japanese kids like 8-13 y/o do not buy Jump! that much anymore.

Anonymous Tue Jul 5 03:00:45 2022 No.20630648

>>20623477
Society has intentionally been intellectually dumbed down through social media and pop culture.

Back in the day many classics where things like the alchemist which had actually intellectual substance but they where only popular becuse the Society that consumed it saw intellect as a virtue while our modern society sees it as a sin.

I don't belive that I'm a intellectual person, but that just makes it even more worrying that someone like me can see the course our society is headed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 04:16:04 2022 No.20630964 >>20623477 idk man You tell me, you brought it up, I assume someone told you this Who told you this?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 04:28:32 2022 No.20630997 >>20623477 That mindset comes from earning a living. You aren’t an artist if you can’t put food on the table and a roof over your head with your work. You just create art. Big difference

Anonymous Tue Jul 5 05:12:39 2022 No.20631141

>>20630627
I'm not retarded, but you are.

>The newer shit like OPM is waifus waifis waifus. They obviously need those otaku buxx to stay afloat, my guess is that young Japanese kids like 8-13 y/o do not buy Jump! that much anymore.
Shounen Jump is super mainstream. Please just leave the thread already.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 05:44:05 2022 No.20631273 >>20630997 Art exists independently of money, retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 05:45:56 2022 No.20631282 >>20626399 >the soviet film industry is also superior in every way to it's hollywood counterpart. Stalin disagreed, he was a fan of American cinema

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 05:46:21 2022 No.20631286 >>20627738 Are Marvel movies the best movies?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 05:47:24 2022 No.20631290 >>20626797 Balzac is fantastic. What’s wrong with him?

Anonymous Tue Jul 5 05:51:14 2022 No.20631306

>>20627888
Why are you whining? Most great artists and writers had patrons. They didn’t become hustlers. Why are you listening to that anon? If you are good, win a prize and get recognition. Yes there are limited spots, but that’s the point. Good art is rare.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:02:17 2022 No.20631354 If art doesn't sell then how does the artist live?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:06:15 2022 No.20631369 >>20631354 This is why most people do art as a hobby.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:08:10 2022 No.20631372 >>20623477 Art isnt a product, its a process.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:19:33 2022 No.20631402 >>20627753 What was the monetary gain of Pasolini creating Salò?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:32:29 2022 No.20631458 >>20631354 >>20630997 What was the monetary gain of Pasolini creating Salò?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:33:57 2022 No.20631464 >>20631458 >Pasolini >make art

Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:34:13 2022 No.20631466

>>20623477
Artists in preceding centuries had patrons but the patrons left it up to the artist/gave lots of room for creative freedom. Patrons of the art are still a thing but it's more an on request thing with less freedom for the artist. The patron has become more of an instructor. For lit it's even worse because companies hold religiously to their content formulas. There's a difference between not publishing something because it won't sell and not publishing anything else but shit that is following a certain formula thought up by marketing students.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 06:36:43 2022 No.20631473 >>20631464 Filtered.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 10:21:47 2022 No.20632203 >>20631369 >This is why most people do art as a hobby. You will not get good art from hobbyists.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 10:22:49 2022 No.20632209 >>20631306 >If you are good, win a prize and get recognition. lmao being good has nothing to do with anything, especially winning prizes

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 10:25:58 2022 No.20632220 >>20631141 >Shounen Jump is super mainstream. Mine was just a guess, but this indicates that there's been a drop indeed https://www.cbr.com/shonen-jump-lowest-sales-1970s/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 10:27:16 2022 No.20632223 >>20631141 >Shounen Jump is super mainstream. Mine was just a guess, but this indicates that there's been a drop indeed https://www.cbr.com/shonen-jump-lowest-sales-1970s/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 10:30:08 2022 No.20632235 >>20632223 >Weekly Shonen Jump is still Japan's most popular manga magazine, but

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 11:26:19 2022 No.20632402 kill yourself you retarded illiterate mongrel

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 14:28:29 2022 No.20633015 So given that every comment ITT is pure cope, I conclude that I am (sadly) right: we live in the end times. Art is truly dead and humanity does not even need it anymore. What the fuck do I do with my life? I don't know.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 15:52:12 2022 No.20633324 >>20631464 >No answer

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 21:25:20 2022 No.20634659 Bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 21:28:04 2022 No.20634670 >>20633015 whine like a retard I guess. You're miserable,

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 21:31:08 2022 No.20634678 >>20628729 case in point, this retarded board

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 5 22:33:15 2022 No.20634917 >>20623477 All true art is entertaining. People will be willing to pay for entertainment.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 6 03:28:26 2022 No.20635955 >>20634917 Not true.

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/lit/ - Literature