/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.20485049]

Why is it a cardinal sin to admit the fact that Shakespearean English is only barely comprehensible to modern English speakers? At what point can we speak of Shakespeare English translations as we do of Goethe or Cervantes?

[Anonymous No.20485068]

Shakespeare is perfectly comprehensible to a moderately educated person. Most "English speakers" today are actually speaking a pidgin based on English and designed to facilitate communication between service workers and federal bureaucrats in their endless circlejerk of handing off depreciating funnymoney to each other and eating corn syrup diarrhea pressed into various shapes.

[Anonymous No.20485089]

It's not that hard. My school used to take us to see Shakespeare plays when we were kids, using the original language and we all enjoyed it.

[Anonymous No.20485099]

>>20485049
Because it’s not that hard

[Anonymous No.20485113]

>>20485049
>Shakespearean English is only barely comprehensible to modern English speakers?
Do Americans really?

[Anonymous No.20485122]

>>20485113
OP does not speak for me

[Anonymous No.20485124]

cuz this

[Anonymous No.20485136]

>>20485049
ITT: OP public admits he is a retard.

[Anonymous No.20485137]

>>20485124
Latin is still taught in high school though

[Anonymous No.20485146]

Ultimately someone liking Shakespeare would probably make them unhappy in an Amazon warehouse work environment. You will remain an unfathomably ignorant worker bee and you will be happy.

[Anonymous No.20485150]

>>20485146
How could anyone possibly be happy in an Amazon warehouse

[Anonymous No.20485156]

>>20485150
they've got a mindful practice pod.

[Anonymous No.20485394]

>>20485049
Shakespearean English doesn't exist, it's just normal English. What you are having trouble understanding is his particular poetic language, and there exist many translations of that into easy to understand prose for low-iq retards like you.

[Anonymous No.20485451]

Elizabethan English is perfectly comprehensible to those who aren't literal niggers

[Anonymous No.20485556]

>>20485137
Nearly all public schools have phased it out because the requirements to be a high school teacher are a GED and a paper from the state saying you're qualified to teach. Getting the qualification paper is not difficult.

[Anonymous No.20485570]

>>20485049
Because it's not that difficult and there are a plethora of good annotated student editions that explain on the same page any problem passages or words.

[Anonymous No.20485575]

>>20485156
Kek

[Anonymous No.20485581]

>>20485124
Yeah, because schooling is now for the masses and canonical works aren't the main focus. If you take kids from the most successful families and follow their school careers they're even more impressive.

[Anonymous No.20485598]

All you niggers acting superior. Even John Dryden in the 17th century admitted that Shakespeare’s language was hard to understand

> “Many of his words,” wrote Dryden, “and more of his phrases, are scarce intelligible. And of those which we understand, some are ungrammatical, others coarse; and his whole style is so pestered with figurative expressions, that it is as affected as it is obscure.”

[Anonymous No.20485640]

>>20485049
It's not a cardinal sin. Just use the "No Fear" translations - or other equivalent publication - where a modern English version is set side by side with the original. In other words, a sufficient number of readers have felt the same way you have that publishers have reacted and published new editions of Shakespeare to satisfy this need.

[Anonymous No.20485774]

How the fuck am I supposed to just know slang terms from England 500 years ago?

[Anonymous No.20485812]

>>20485774
You ever talked to a britisher on the internet? They sound like they've got mouths full of rocks and they have just as many retarded special words for everything, except now it's blended in with immigrant and British rap slang. At least Shakespeare was just one language's slang in the blender, now the average Englishman either sounds like this
>Oi m8 wot fok u say't'me may Ill ki ya fuh in ed in ma nan gran da weh da uvfa dey ta geh da nan man innit wagwan nah nah das ricknmorty innit das ricknmorty swear down me buv
or they sound like prissy faggots because they got a bull prepping degree at oxbridge

[Anonymous No.20485854]

>>20485812
Rule Britannia

[Anonymous No.20485956]

>>20485049
Learn rhetorical figures. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Do Euphues as a warmup.

[Anonymous No.20485964]

>>20485598
Dryden's talking about coinages like "bedroom."
Besides, everyone before Pope accused everyone else of barbarous style.

[Anonymous No.20485975]

>>20485049
>modern English
>barely comprehensible
Shakespeare wrote in Modern English, midwit.

[Anonymous No.20485986]

>>20485049
Post some barely comprehensible Shakespeare passages.

[Anonymous No.20486003]

>>20485049
Because that isn't true

[Anonymous No.20486006]

>>20485812
>britisher
Rajeet, please go back to work.

[Anonymous No.20486014]

>put the verb before the negative like in modern French
>put an accent or use an apostraphe for a few past tense -ed verbs
>use a couple antiquated pronouns
WHAT IS THIS? I CAN BARELY UNDERSTAND IT AT ALL!

[Anonymous No.20486022]

>>20486014
Remember if you are a high school literature teacher these are now your students
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufmcubp2szg

[Anonymous No.20486033]

>>20485812
Your rendition of bongspeak was very well done. Got halfway through before I had to give up. As for Shakespeare, only psueds pretend that he's perfectly comprehensible to the average modern day reader.

[Anonymous No.20486141]

>>20485575
Thanks for posting, I was looking for a book about this exact topic.

[Anonymous No.20486167]

>>20486022
The STEMcel pajeet is the worst out of all of them. The rest are mulattos so you can’t expect much.

[Anonymous No.20486209]

>>20486022
Found the /his/ userbase

[Anonymous No.20486390]

>>20485049
Shakespearean English in itself isn't that bad, the tragedies should be perfectly comprehensible, but when you encounter something like the Prince Hal/Falstaff scenes or anything else with "low" diction and therefore lots of contemporary slang, no one who isn't already an expert on the period will know those terms. Some stuff can become clear from context, sure, but it makes up a decent proportion of the words in a given line, to the point where trying to get through it on your own is a ridiculous exercise.

[Anonymous No.20486458]

OP you need to learn some basic rules and make use of footnotes and the ocassional transaction if you are desperate to understand every single thing. Otherwise just read carefully and aim to get the main jist before listening to it or watching it, whereupon you'll find you understand significantly more

>>20485394
It's written in early modern English. It is effectively a different language.

[Anonymous No.20488218]

>>20485049
All you really need is a vocabulary gloss for words we don't use anymore.

[Anonymous No.20488433]

>>20485049
>as we do of Cervantes
What????

[Anonymous No.20488462]

>>20485964
>Dryden's talking about coinages like "bedroom."
Ho did they use to call it?

[Anonymous No.20488482]

>>20485986
>Post some barely comprehensible Shakespeare passages.
Seconding this.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.20488499]

He’s perfectly comprehensible, you’ll get some uncommon words every once and a while but you can just check a dictionary or google them and get the point, often he’ll repeat himself if a line is particularly purple. You’re probably just not enjoying the work which makes comprehending it a bore, a job.

[Anonymous No.20488525]

Main problems impo that has already been solved are his archaic diction and extended metaphors. This was already solved by defining words on the page and writing summaries. Every edition of Shakespeare you can buy in English does this for readers.

[Anonymous No.20488544]

*Getting them to pay attention to an extended metaphor.
They simply don't care.

[Anonymous No.20488633]

>>20485068
fpbp

[Anonymous No.20490022]

>>20485049
Because brits can’t cope.

[Anonymous No.20491041]

>>20486458
>It is effectively a different language.
lmao no it isn't, are you retarded? you can read prose from that era, even Shakespeare's own prose dialogues, and it's the same English that we speak today. It having archaic words or some words with different meanings does not make it a different language. Just admit you are dumb.

[Anonymous No.20491063]

>>20485068
This

[Anonymous No.20491629]

>>20491041
The point is there was a country today that still spoke early modern English it would be likely considered a different language and not a dialect as there are enough differing features, syntax and vocabulary. It's not as different as say Spanish and Italian but it's more different than Italian and sicilian or neopolitan

[Anonymous No.20491708]

>>20485812
>britisher
I can hear the dial-up internet.

[Anonymous No.20492307]

>>20491629
>as there are enough differing features, syntax and vocabulary
but that's due to Shakespeare's poetic language, not the english of his time which is perfectly comprehensible to a moderately educated person. By this logic the english of every different poet could be considered a different language just because they play with syntax and vocabulary, it's what poets do.

[Anonymous No.20492315]

>>20492307
as an example just take Shakespeare's earlier plays, the Henry VI trilogy, and you will find that their english is much clearer and easier to understand than King Lear or Hamlet, because he employed less poetic language in the former than in the latter.

[Anonymous No.20492317]

>>20485068
Woah cool it with the anitsemitic remarks

[Anonymous No.20492326]

>>20488462
Bedchamber

[Anonymous No.20492331]

>>20491629
Don't be retarded. Shakespearean English is no more different from the modern standard American dialect than a broad regional British dialect is. We still treat them both as the same language.

[Anonymous No.20492334]

>>20486022
A cherrypicked selection of retards, probably vetted to make sure they're as ignorant as possible before filming? The average person is stupid, but this is selective nonsense.

[Anonymous No.20492918]

>>20485049
Anyone who speaks spanish and doesn't understand Don Quixote written in old spanish is simply mentally retarded. Don't know how it is for you anglos with Shakespeare but I too was memed that 'old spanish is so hard! You won't understand Don Quixote in old spanish' Then actually read don quixote in old spanish and it was fine. Its literally a meme.

[Anonymous No.20492930]

>>20485068
Woah based

[Anonymous No.20493510]

>>20492307
It literally had different rules for example using the verb to be for negative imperatives.

>By logic

Nope you aren't using logic you fucking walnut brain you are being retarded


>>20492331
This is fucking retarded and you should feel bad. You are exposing yourself as having no understanding of the history and nature of the English language, also clearly as someone who has never read anything written in the early modern English period on a board about literature. At least I hope that is the case , otherwise your assertion that North American English is no more dissimilar to early modern English is very concerning. I'm legitimately disgusted that you post here.

[Anonymous No.20493530]

>>20485068
/thread

[Anonymous No.20493662]

>>20492307
>By this logic the english of every different poet could be considered a different language just because they play with syntax and vocabulary, it's what poets do.
YES?? In a sense, surely.

[Anonymous No.20493672]

>>20492918
Are you a native speaker?

[Anonymous No.20493751]

>>20492918
>Don't know how it is for you anglos with Shakespeare but I too was memed that 'old spanish is so hard!
Probably very similar, my Iberian friend.

[Anonymous No.20493824]

This board isn’t even aware of how it encourages autistic behaviour. It’s disappointing.

I hope all of you someday look at r/iamverysmart and realise how much of a meme you all are. I thought people might actually discuss books not pretend to be smart.