Holy Bible general

[Anonymous No.20458531]

ITT we discuss the Holy Bible. The most influential piece of literature in human history.

[Anonymous No.20458537]

>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.20458592]

>>20458537
Is there a reason you're so bothered by these threads?

[Anonymous No.20458604]

>>20458537
Is there a reason you're so bothered by these threads?

[Anonymous No.20458711]

>>20458531
influence is not the Christian metric. influence is an effect, not a cause. what really matters is whether or not a book is good. The Bible is the best book, because it contains the full truth about mankind, sin, salvation, and God which God intended to give to man.

[Anonymous No.20458877]

Thomas Nelson. Giant print. Thinline. Premier collection. KJV. Goatskin cover. 2k Denmark comfort print. 36gsm European paper.

[dago No.20458918]

Why is the book of Judges so fucking Kino??!?
I need a Netflix adaption ASAP

[Anonymous No.20459376]

>>20458918
I just finished Judges and am into Samuel now. A nice change of pace from the previous books that were all about land and living instructions etc.

[Anonymous No.20459444]

>>20459376
the Pentateuch is very law-y and dense.
most of the historical stuff is very good. wait until you get to the prophets

[Anonymous No.20459447]

>>20458604
He's a jew

[Anonymous No.20459970]

bumping before bed. Just finished 1st Samuel

[Anonymous No.20459979]

their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth
after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

01:001:026 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth
upon the earth.

01:001:027 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he him; male and female created he them.

01:001:028 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have
dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

01:001:029 And God said, Behold, I have given you every her

[Anonymous No.20460035]

>>20459444
>the books collectively called "The Law" are filled with laws
Bros

[Anonymous No.20460813]

[Anonymous No.20460816]

>>20459970
I found 2nd Samuel to be a tough read. Keep going, because Kings is epic.

[Anonymous No.20460817]

>>20458877
kek

[Anonymous No.20460905]

>>20458877
>Thomas Nelson.
dropped

[Anonymous No.20461891]

sneed

[Anonymous No.20461983]

>>20460816
The only hard parts for me to read and follow so far are books like Numbers where it's just: "

x was the son of x and y the son of y and z the son of z and the 12 tribes all had sons their names were a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j and k.

A inherited X. And B inherited X. And C inherited X"

And the instructions for the tabernacle "x made x, and y made y, and there need to be x number of curtains" etc etc

[Anonymous No.20462018]

Why was David so loyal to Saul? Also his relationship with Jonathan sounds a little sus "I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."

[Anonymous No.20462280]

>>20462018
hsven't read it yet, but Saul was appointed by God, if a quick check is right.
deep friendship, as for the second one. english is quite pesky as it only uses one word for love, the hebrew there is "ahavah"

[Anonymous No.20462306]

>>20462280
which stands for a broader sense of affection, to clarify. so deep friendship/brotherly love
check the Bible Project word studies, it's great stuff, and one is about this word.(and shows the same example of Samuel and David)

[Anonymous No.20462359]

>>20462018
he's literally saying bros before hoes
are you gay? do you not have male friends?

[Anonymous No.20462397]

>>20462306
careful though. their way of explaining and simplifying Scripture and some things is a bit iffy. the word studies are solid though.

[Anonymous No.20462480]

>>20462018
What a shame it is that close male friendships are immediately though of as involving sodomy

[Anonymous No.20462729]

>>20458531
bump

[Anonymous No.20463425]

I heard Jordan Peterson give a talk on Genesis and I think he is absolutely wrong. So terribly wrong that I think he is a subversive Luciferian gnostic.
Firstly he does not take the creation story literally because he believes in evolution.
Secondly he claims that women are not supposed to be subordinate to men. He thinks they should be equals. This is clearly not a Christian understanding. The Bible is clear that women take the lower place in the hierarchy.
Thirdly he claims that before God created Eve, Adam was a hermaphrodite, not a man. This is totally blasphemous because Adam is made in God's image. If we follow Jordan Peterson's sick and false logic, then his "god" is baphomet. This is all Luciferian, gnostic, and kabbalistic philosophy.
I think that he is a false prophet meant to appeal to conservatives and lead them astray.

[Anonymous No.20463448]

>>20458531
take the Lugandapill

https://www.loc.gov/resource/gdcwdl.wdl_18411/?sp=1&r=-1.061,0,3.123,1.499,0

[Anonymous No.20463823]

Maybe learn about Islam if you want the truth anon

[Anonymous No.20464068]

Is the current incarnation of Christ a girl?
>I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.

[Anonymous No.20464090]

>>20458531
I should really get back to reading it.
>>20460813
What other view is there? That seemed incredibly obvious to me when I read it.

[Anonymous No.20464143]

>>20459447
you worship a jew tho

[Anonymous No.20464249]

>>20463425
>listening to anyone except for the Magisterium on definitive interpretations of the Scripture
Your own fault, m8.

[Anonymous No.20464263]

What should I read to cure my skepticism of the Christian origin of evil? I find the normal answer of free will to be unacceptable because to be able to choose between good and evil acts implies that the evil act already exists at least in principle anyway. Or that if a being can sometimes choose the worse option then they must be imperfect. How does a perfect being make something imperfect? Cheers, laddies

[Anonymous No.20464278]

>>20463823
Looks pretty plagiarized, my dude.

[Anonymous No.20464289]

>The combined expression “Jewish Christian”, made up of two seemingly contradictory concepts, must strike readers not specially trained in theology or religious history as an oxymoron. For how can someone simultaneously be a follower of both Moses and Jesus? Yet at the beginning of the Christian movement, in the first hundred years of the post-Jesus era, encounters with Jewish Christians distinguishable from Gentile Christians were a daily occurrence both in the Holy Land and in the diaspora.

>To understand the genesis of these notions, the first point to note is that during his days of preaching, Jesus of Nazareth addressed only Jews, “the lost sheep of Israel” (Mt 10:5; 15:24). His disciples were even expressly instructed not to approach Gentiles or Samaritans (Mt 10:5). On the few occasions that Jesus ventured beyond the boundaries of his homeland, he never proclaimed his gospel to pagans, nor did his disciples do so during his lifetime. The mission of the 11 apostles to “all the nations” (Mt 28:19) is a “post-Resurrection” idea. It appears to be of Pauline inspiration and is nowhere found in the Gospels apart from the spurious longer ending of Mark (Mk 16:15), which is missing from all the older manuscripts. Jesus’s own perspective was exclusively Jewish; he was concerned only with Jews.

Christbros...

[Anonymous No.20464292]

>>20464263
I'm not sure what the problem is.

[Anonymous No.20464526]

>>20464289
>warping Scripture to fit their lies and slandering Paul for it
why is it so common?

[Anonymous No.20464532]

What's the best route to go from the civilian world to working on schizo /x/ black project stuff?
35 series to a BA and MS in physics/aerospace eng?

[Anonymous No.20464545]

>>20464532
Wrong thread lol

[Anonymous No.20464592]

>>20463425
>Thirdly he claims that before God created Eve, Adam was a hermaphrodite, not a man.
That is a very gay take.
>I think that he is a false prophet meant to appeal to conservatives and lead them astray.
Too hasty on that idea for me. I don't listen to his stuff but from what I've seen his advice is very solid baseline stuff for becoming a responsible man.

[Anonymous No.20464604]

>>20463425
Can you send me source?
I bought ticket to his lecture which is in 2 weeks and i seriously had doubts about the guy

[Anonymous No.20464634]

>>20460813
Did he actually ever say that?

[Anonymous No.20464646]

>>20459447
Gz on graduating bro

[Anonymous No.20464922]

>>20464289
This is so dumb that I don’t even know where to begin. Whoever wrote this should know that the very Messianic claims that Jesus was making involve the Gentiles coming to worship the God of Israel—to claim that Paul made it up is ridiculous

[Anonymous No.20464939]

>>20463425
> Adam was a hermaphrodite, not a man.
This is quite telling, because this is one of the interpretations of the rabbis, not of the Church Fathers. It is quite a shame that so many Christians listen to this man’s interpretation of the Bible. Is Peterson even a Christian at all? He seems to be so vague in what he believes. He is absolutely a false prophet regardless. Evolution is a false theory with roots in Masonic occultism too.

[Anonymous No.20464941]

>>20464922
Matthew 10:5-6
>These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions:‘Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, [6] but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:21-24
>Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. [22] Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ [23] But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ [24] He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’

Mark 7:24-30
>From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, [25] but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. [26] Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. [27] He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ [28] But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ [29] Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ [30] So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

Explain this then.

[Anonymous No.20464959]

>>20464526
Paul is one of the greatest witnesses to the truth of Christianity from a historical perspective. This is why he is hated so much by unbelievers from every corner. Paul was a highly-learned and intelligent Pharisee who was zealous for his belief, and persecuted and killed Christians. His complete turn-around is in itself miraculous. But what makes it so amazing is that without Paul, anti-Christians would argue that no one saw the risen Christ except for his immediate disciples. But when the risen Christ appears even to the enemies of Christ with such power that they become zealous apostles for the truth, even dying for it, they are silenced. Paul lives rent-free in the minds of all anti-Christians. Paul is slandered from all directions as being some sort of ‘Jewish agent’ who destroyed Europe (neo-pagans and /pol/tards), a Roman agent who tried to destroy Jews (according to some Jews), a false prophet who associated Jesus with God and turned Christians into polytheists (Muslims), or just some sort of evil woman-hater and homophobe who ruined the teachings of the ‘socialist Jesus’ or whatever (leftists, progressivists).

[Anonymous No.20464979]

>>20464941
Initially came for the Israelites, later expanded to everyone. IIRC that was quite the hot point of contention for the Pharisees, and a big part of why they hated him so much. Specifically because their sekrit club was wrecked.

[Anonymous No.20464987]

>>20464941
I don’t have to explain anything. The propechies of the Old Testament say that when the Messiah / Christ comes the nations of the world will come to trust in him and will come to worship the God of Israel. The Gospels have direct citations from Isaiah, Daniel and other prophets which identify Jesus as the Messiah and thereby link him with the coming of the Gentiles to worship the God of Israel. Jesus’ primary ministry was among the Jews, who already had the Scriptures and prophecies, but as we can see he helped and healed many Gentiles, who came to have faith in him as the Messiah, and even says points out that some have greater faith than anyone in Israel. The parable of the vineyard makes it clear that the Jews slaughtered the prophets and were going to kill the Son and that God would remove the Jews from the vineyard and give it to new people. The Old Testament already foretold that the Messiah would suffer and be persecuted as well.

[Anonymous No.20465009]

>>20458918
>“And Ehud came to him as he was sitting alone in his cool roof chamber. And Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” And he arose from his seat. And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out.”
Judges 3:20-22

I was crying laughing for several minutes at this part, it’s one of those things I could not believe was in the Bible.

Judges is indeed very kino, on the surface it’s just a history book but deep down it’s really a meditation on the neverending cycle that God and humanity goes through.

>Humanity sins and rejects God
>Humanity suffers
>Humanity calls on God to save them
>God saves them and there’s prosperity
>rinse and repeat

It’s going to stay that way until our Lord returns.

[Anonymous No.20465028]

>>20464263
Evil is just distorting our will away from God and against him. It was always a possibility that came with free will, and God knew that, but he values our freedom far more than he does making automatons forced to love him. Evil isn’t a real substance or category.
> How does a perfect being make something imperfect?
Do you mean the world? It was essentially perfect prior to the Fall. God allowed it to become as it is now though for our sake. We see this in Genesis 3(?) where God says that the earth is cursed *for your sake* —and truly we can see that the way the earth is makes us unsatisfied, and look for things that are beyond the phenomenal world of change, death and sensual pleasures.

[Anonymous No.20465046]

>>20464979
>>20464987
Why did the Jews have such a big problem with Jesus anyway? Shouldn't his fulfillment of the prophecies been enough proof for them?

>Initially came for the Israelites, later expanded to everyone.
>The propechies of the Old Testament say that when the Messiah / Christ comes the nations of the world will come to trust in him and will come to worship the God of Israel. The Gospels have direct citations from Isaiah, Daniel and other prophets which identify Jesus as the Messiah and thereby link him with the coming of the Gentiles to worship the God of Israel
But Jesus pretty much ignored or outright denigrated gentiles when he was alive. I don't have a problem with what Paul or Peter said, but it's a weird contradiction when you take the prophecies of the old testament into account. Did he just have a change in heart before he was crucified?

[Anonymous No.20465088]

>>20462018
>Why was David so loyal to Saul?

This is a big part of what made David so great in God’s eyes.

“He said to his men, “The Lord forbid that I should do this thing to my Lord, the Lord’s anointed, to put out my hand against him, seeing he is the Lord’s anointed.” - 1 Samuel 24:6

Saul was God’s very first anointed king. David feared the Lord, and he feared the consequences of hurting a leader chosen by God.

David was also giving his leader Saul his due respect as the anointed one, even though the respect wasn’t deserved. He assumed the Lord had good reason to choose Saul, and put faith in his leader.

David exhibited fear of the Lord, respect and faith towards his leaders, and faith in God. These are all things favorable in God’s eyes.

On Saul’s part, he had several chances to accept David’s mercy towards him, but his pride got in the way.

[Anonymous No.20465097]

>>20465009
>”I have a message from the Lord”
>stabs him

[Anonymous No.20465125]

>>20465009
>>20465097
That's metal as fuck.

[Anonymous No.20465126]

>20465046
Essentially, the Jews at the time were expecting a Messiah who would appear and destroy all of Israel’s enemies and rule a political / worldly state on earth. We see this mentioned in Acts, when right before Jesus’ ascension into heaven the disciples ask him when he is going to restore Israel—even his disciples operated under the assumption that Jesus was going to be exactly like was going to be expected. He really subverted expectations in a lot of ways. There was the idea that Jesus was a blasphemer too, given how he spoke with authority, forgave sins, gave commandments, claimed to one with the Father, claimed to be before Abraham, etc. This warranted the death penalty in the eyes of the Pharisees. Plus, they were just corrupt and prideful in many ways.

>But Jesus pretty much ignored or outright denigrated gentiles when he was alive
He was testing their faith in many of these cases, and they were healed, or freed from demons, and many other things. Jews at the time already knew the prophecies, worshiped God, and had faith in the coming of the Messiah. They were the #1 priority at the time. Even with the apostles, they went to synagogues first, and then to the Gentiles for this very reason. Of course the Jews became extremely hostile rather quickly, so the Gospel spread much more quickly among the Gentiles, and this was foretold by Jesus as well:

Jesus to the Roman centurion in Matthew 8:
““Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Also all of Matthew 21:33-46

> Did he just have a change in heart before he was crucified?
No, he showed good-will towards Gentiles during all throughout his ministry. He knew his priorities though, and the apostles would preach to the world for him.

[Anonymous No.20465131]

>>20465126
Meant for: >>20465046

[Anonymous No.20465147]

>>20463425
>>20464939

On the one part I’m glad a popular intellectual is actually drawing attention to the Bible and discussing it publicly. His Biblical lectures on YouTube are a big part of the reason I’m a Christian and know the truth now. But I agree his views are misleading a lot of people.

>>20464939
Jordan doesn’t claim himself a Christian but he has a deep interest in it psychologically and philosophically. He’s what Paul refers as someone “always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.”
2 Timothy 3:7. From what I can tell he’s trying to re-interpret the Bible from a modern viewpoint, which can only lead to heresy. Right now he’s leaning towards a very Gnostic viewpoint. I’m praying God is drawing him to Himself and opening his eyes to the truth, I think if Jordan became a Christian he would be a great ally for us. I don’t think his intentions are malicious, I believe he’s really trying to figure out the truth of the Bible, but without the Holy Spirit opening his eyes he can’t truly see.

[Anonymous No.20465169]

>>20458877
Impressive, very nice.

Thompson Chain Reference Bible. KJV. Hardcover. Packed with notes and study guides.

[Anonymous No.20465181]

>>20465125
>“and the dung came out”

[Anonymous No.20465186]

Sorry new to Christianity (not a Christian yet, still exploring) and interested in becoming a Catholic potentially.

What's the stance on creationism? I tend to lean towards evolution but I'm not super partial to either. I just don't want to be branded outright as a heretic right off the bat.

[Anonymous No.20465200]

>>20465186
According to the RC and EO churches, death did not exist before the fall of man. Take that as you will.

[Anonymous No.20465204]

>>20465186
Just don’t become a Catholic. Look into Orthodoxy. The pre-schism church wasn’t based on papal supremacy, but the collegial leadership of bishops with Rome as first among equals in honor. The vast majority of the Church Fathers interpreted the rock which Christ founds the Church on not to be Peter, but faith in Christ (which Peter had just declared prior to that).

[Anonymous No.20465217]

>>20465186
the catholic claim of apostolic succession is self reported and very dubious

we have documents like justin martyr's apologies outlining the doctrine of the early church and fundamental catholic teachings like iconography and papal authority are missing

salvation is through faith alone and even though catholics claim they believe this, it isn't true in practice. they believe certain works like baptism is essential and they use mental gymnastics to reason why it isn't considered a work.

please take a more serious look at calvinism. I am not one myself, but their "5 sola's" and TULIP are very solid.

[Anonymous No.20465223]

What's each major denomination's stance on violence?

I don't like pacifism.

[Anonymous No.20465227]

>>20465186
truth. although young/old earth can both be argued.
the big catch with evolution is it has little truth crumbs, and they feed it to you as absolute truth from the get go.
basically, you can divide it into micro and macroevolution.
micro is adaptation, like Darwin's birds with different beaks, or a bacteria adapting resistance. that's all jolly and good. here's the catch though:
they use that and extrapolate it into macroevolution, which is the idea things changed into each other, changing from the same being. as you can see with both man-made artificial selection (which would be leagues more strict than alleged natural selection) and fossils, it doesn't happen. each animal is exclusively itself.
as for fossils, they're just drawing lines and making up comparisons of characteristics, and claiming those comparisons make the animals somehow related.
do ask any more doubts you might have

[Anonymous No.20465232]

>>20465186
>>20465227
and i mean the general Christian idea here, not a denominational specific.

[Anonymous No.20465235]

>>20465223
>I don't like pacifism.
too bad, it's what Jesus taught and what the early church, including the apostles practiced, despite much opportunity/reason to rebel/defend themselves
>w-what about if your family-
not in the bible. we're talking about biblical doctrine here, not our worldly sensibilities

[Anonymous No.20465240]

>>20465186
Creationism is silly and something that people only believe in when they're either deep into schizophrenia or give zero shits and only care about keeping up appearances by doing easy things that they can be very loud about which don't require real effort on their part.
But yeah Catholicism is pretty much just an outright mistake.

[Anonymous No.20465245]

>>20465232
rather, to clarify, this is the Christian view, and not the view of a specific denomination.

[Anonymous No.20465250]

>>20465240
that's ironic considering the vast majority of laymen and normies accept evolution as a given and consider creationism to be stupid without understanding the simplest arguments for why they believe that in the first place.

[Anonymous No.20465255]

>>20465186
Evolution is a heresy based on dubious and non-Christian philosophical assumptions. It is based on the conflation of varieties and species, and the idea that a variety is no more than an incipient species. There is zero evidence for molecules-to-man macroevolution in the fossil record, and the fossil record does not support the sort of gradualism described by Darwin. Indeed the fossil record is so damaging to Darwinism that evolutionists have concocted theories that explain away the lack of evidence and claim that it is actually evidence for evolution happening at rapid speed (punctuated equilibrium). When one realizes that even the smallest components of our body, cells, are super-complex structures with interacting parts, and that DNA is literally a coded language of sorts that determines what we are biologically, the idea of evolution becomes absurd. Is natural selection real? Yes. Is genetic drift real? Yes. Can varieties within a species be great? Yes, compare Great Danes and Chihuahuas.

From a Christian perspective, God did not create death. Wisdom of Solomon 1:13-15 shows this. Death and sin came into the world through the actions of a single man. Romans 5:12 makes this very clear. Romans 8:18-25 teaches us that the world subjected to futility and is under the bondage of decay—this is the direct result of Adam’s trangression, which affected the entire universe.

Science operates on presuppositions within a paradigm / framework. Evidence is interpreted within this framework. The framework of modern science is naturalism. They attempt to explain everything via matter in motion without reference to God or any intelligent direction. They operate on assumptions like the past going back billions of years (proof? They have to just assume it), as well as ideas like the laws of nature always being identical as to how they are today, which is an unfounded assumption too. Science can’t even reach Eden, because it was so different from the world today. Induction and testing can’t be done on a world that functioned completely differently.

[Anonymous No.20465257]

>>20465235
how do you channel and meaningfully direct the inherent masculinity born within men then, if not through violence?

asking for passivity in the face of injustice is too much to bear for any righteous man, which is no surprise considering that most Christians throughout history were not pious enough to emulate Jesus in his pacifism, but then that's also a large part in what made Christianity so dominant, ironically

[Anonymous No.20465259]

>>20465240
>[Believing the Bible] is silly and something that people only believe in when they're either deep into schizophrenia or give zero shits and only care about keeping up appearances by doing easy things that they can be very loud about which don't require real effort on their part.

[Anonymous No.20465269]

>>20465223
Christianity doesn’t teach pacifism. Major Christian theologians developed the first ‘just war’ theories and talked about the legitimate use of force. It’s also well known that Christians used violence against pagans and Jews throughout the Roman Empire, and that the Bible itself has massacres of idolators by the hands of people like Joshua and Elijah, and part of being a Christian requires that one believe that Jesus Christ is the deity who commanded this (in the case of Joshua) or approved of it (in the case of Elijah).

[Anonymous No.20465277]

>>20465257
everything you've asked is addressed when you have a greater understanding of sin, and it's effects on humanity
I'm not sure what you mean by "inherent masculinity", but all humans are born with a nature towards sin. and passivity in the face of justice is what separates us from the nonbeliever. rather, to be more specific, the love for our enemy.
i don't mean this condescendingly, but I'd suggest you become more familiar with the New Testament text if you haven't already.
>>20465269
just because "Christians" developed those things doesn't mean it's biblical, and Joshua and Elijah were not following the NT teachings of Christ.

[Anonymous No.20465286]

>>20465277
>Just because "Christians" developed those things doesn't mean it's biblical, and Joshua and Elijah were not following the NT teachings of Christ
God isn’t bipolar, what was good in the past is good under the New Covenant

[Anonymous No.20465293]

>>20465286
>what was good in the past is good under the New Covenant
you're pulling that out of your ass. There is absolutely no indication in the NT teachings or in the early church that God wants us to kill Pagans, and there are many, many, many other indications that God wants us to love them

nobody is claiming that God is bipolar. either say exactly what you mean or stop being silly please

[Anonymous No.20465299]

>>20465250
And? Normalfags do that with everything.
>>20465259
The second part doesn't conflict with my point. Plenty run around spouting nonsense to make it seem like they're good Christians but haven't read a single word from the Bible. They're just trying to fit in as easily as possible. Why do you think so many people are proponents of hippie Jesus?
But this is really a moot point that I shouldn't even address because it's a false comparison to begin with.

[Anonymous No.20465306]

>>20465293
Did I say that God ‘wants’ us to kill pagans? No. I am saying that there are situations in which the morally right thing to do would be to kill enemies of God. Ecclesiastes 3 is clear that there are times to kill, and times for war. God’s people fought in many wars and battles and killed their enemies when they had to, and God was with them.

[Anonymous No.20465313]

>>20465306
yes, that time to kill was in the OT when it was explicitly permitted by God, and those people were the ancient Israelites

once again, there is no indication that God wants Christians to kill their enemies (or anyone) and every indication of the contrary (love your enemy and do good for them)

[Anonymous No.20465316]

>>20465306
Yeah. I think "turn the other cheek" has been the most misinterpreted quote possibly of all time.

The ultimate conclusion to this kind of thinking is to simply become a detached ascetic, and I don't think there are any indications of God wanting this of us all.

[Anonymous No.20465322]

>>20465316
whats the proper interpretation, and how is that the ultimate conclusion? don't echo chamber unhelpfully, make your reply to me so we can have discourse and learn from each other

[Anonymous No.20465330]

>>20465322
Nta but I'm pretty sure it's literally just about not getting offended over petty insults or things of that nature. It's just a slap, not a sword.

[Anonymous No.20465337]

>>20465313
You make an artificial distinction between OT and NT to such an extent that they would be different gods. Big mean OT versus hippie Jesus in the NT. They are the same God, and God does not change. The Bible is very clear about this. Should we just kill people left and right like Muslims because they mock Christ or refuse to worship him? No. Are there times when the morally right thing to do is to kill someone who is going to harm you, your neighbors and family, or innocents? Absolutely. Jesus praised the faith of a centurion in Matthew, and never once did he condemn him for having a job as a soldier. In fact he commended his faith above all of those in Israel.
>>20465316
Turn the other cheek is great advice for personal interactions and against petty provocations though.

[Anonymous No.20465340]

>>20465322
I'm getting a bit philosophical, so I apologize if that's making the discussion uncomfortable, but we all know that the real goal for us should be the kingdom of God - Heaven, and this life can never be of higher import than the goal of obtaining everlasting life in paradise. However, God did not say that this current life should only be seen as just a stepping stone, and directly contributing to improving it should also be a priority.

So in that vein, you need to take into account concepts like justice in order to grow goodness and prosperity in this life as well. Therefore, I posit that allowing injustice to take place in order to "love your enemies" seems like a misguided attempt at emulating Christ's Godly pacifism, of which we are entirely incapable of mirroring.

We are human, and must at times resolve matters in human ways, tethered to this life. Christianity must have a human element to it and not be entirely alien in character, and I apologize for using the word alien because it is necessary when comparing us in aspects to God, who will always be one of a kind and unlike us.

[Anonymous No.20465352]

>>20465337
>You make an artificial distinction between OT and NT to such an extent that they would be different gods. Big mean OT versus hippie Jesus in the NT. They are the same God, and God does not change. The Bible is very clear about this. Should we just kill people left and right like Muslims because they mock Christ or refuse to worship him? No.
anon, I am not saying any of this. I want to believe that we are both trying to find a coherent picture for all of scripture so lets not put words in each others mouths
>Are there times when the morally right thing to do is to kill someone who is going to harm you, your neighbors and family, or innocents? Absolutely.
please provide a biblical reference for this, that was also practiced by the early church
>Jesus praised the faith of a centurion in Matthew, and never once did he condemn him for having a job as a soldier. In fact he commended his faith above all of those in Israel.
I don't believe it's bad to be a soldier, but that doesn't address the taking of lives
>>20465330
why do you have that interpretation anon
>>20465340
I actually generally agree with this, anon and I think the idea of capital punishment, while I wouldn't call it sinful or mandate, is more of a grey area. I believe God has placed certain people as judges over these types of things, but it is very complicated and deep to have someones life in your hands. to make the judgement "I've decided that this persons life should end now" is something that we should tread a very thin line on.

[Anonymous No.20465358]

>>20465352
also I'm going to shower
will reply in 30-40 mins

[Anonymous No.20465363]

>>20465352
>why do you have that interpretation anon
Because that's what a slap was. It wasn't an assault, it was just a physical form of insult. There's no real harm.

[Anonymous No.20465380]

>>20458531
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>>20465363
god is literally not real

[Anonymous No.20465382]

>>20465126
Thanks for clearing that. This may be an off-topic question, but to clarify, Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the OT, but Jews and Muslims do not think Jesus was the messiah, right? I don't much about Islam, but from what I can tell, Gabriel visited Muhammad and told him to start a new religion for whatever reason, which to me seems like Allah is the same as the Christian God. If that's true then why is there so much tension between the two religions?

[Anonymous No.20465384]

>>20465382
Clearing that up*
I don't know much*

[Anonymous No.20465393]

>>20465352
When it comes to taking lives, I would say that this is always a lamentable thing. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to revel in bloodshed here. I would merely point to things such as Ecclesiastes 3 (‘a time to kill, a time for war’, etc.), and the fact that God is one who abhors injustice, oppression and other things that may only be solved in some cases in this world by force and violence. The fact that so many warriors appear in the OT makes this clear. This said, it’s probably best to live a life as free from killing as possible. The early Church was pretty strict though, I’d have to look what Augustine wrote. I would agree with you though that the highest ideal is more pacifist, and we see this among ascetics. For the average person though, violence and protection of self and the innocent will happen.

Hippolytus of Rome said “A Christian must not become a soldier, unless he is compelled by a chief bearing the sword. He is not to burden himself with the sin of blood. But if he has shed blood, he is not to partake of the Mysteries, unless he is purified by a punishment, tears, and wailing. He is not to come forward deceitfully but in the fear of God.” (#14 of his Canonical Epistles)

Saint Basil the Great was less strict, saying “Our fathers did not consider killings committed in the course of wars to be classifiable as murders at all, on the score, it seems to me, of allowing a pardon to men fighting in defense of sobriety and piety. Perhaps, though, it might be advisable to refuse them communion for three years, on the ground that their hands are not clean.” (#13 of his 92 Canonical Epistles)

[Anonymous No.20465425]

>>20465380

[Anonymous No.20465428]

>>20465380
>Source: dude trust me

[Anonymous No.20465429]

>>20465425

[Anonymous No.20465436]

>>20465382
> but to clarify, Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the OT
Christians and Jews believe in the OT as we have it and as it is supported by manuscript evidence. Many Christians have more books in the OT than Jews do, except for Protestants, who sided with the later Jewish canon of the OT over 1,500 years of Church tradition. Muslims believe that the Bible Christians and Jews have in common is ‘tahrif’ or ‘corrupted’, meaning that the ‘original’ totally supported Islam in every way, but there is no evidence for this from historical sources, or from the Dead Sea Scrolls, early manuscripts whether Christian or Jewish, or anything.

Muslims do the same thing with the Gospels, they claim Jesus taught something completely different. Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah too, but it is completely unclear how they understand this term, because the Messiah in Christianity is the promised Davidic king who will bring the Gentiles to worship the God of Israel, and will rule forever over all nations and peoples, and as Christians know, is literally God incarnate. And all of this is rooted in the OT teachings, of course. Islam denies all of this and claims that Jesus only came for Jews, and wasn’t crucified, and was just a normal man born of a virgin, and was will come back again in the end times. It’s completely bizarre in my opinion. I don’t say this to be edgy or anything, but I think that Islam is demonic in the most literal sense possible, because it denies every essential doctrine of Christianity from the Trinity, to the incarnation, to the atonement, to the New Covenant, to the Scriptures themselves, etc. Christ warned against false prophets and Paul said that anyone preaching another Gospel was accursed, explicitly warning about ‘angels of light’, which is exactly what approached Muhammad in that cave preaching another Gospel to him. This is the main reason why there is so much tension. They deny everything essential to Christianity while still claiming to love Jesus. But they do not even know Jesus, I am sad to say. Personally, I don’t think Muslims worship the same God as Christians. Christians worship the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and God so loved the world that he sent his only-begotten Son so that whoever believes in him will have eternal life. Muslims don’t believe any of this, in fact they call us pagans for believing in the Trinity and find the idea of God having the infinite humility to be born of a woman and live as a man abhorrent.

[Anonymous No.20465437]

>>20465393
>Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to revel in bloodshed here
it isn't you, it's the principle. if there isn't an explicit line drawn in scripture about when the taking of lives is permissible, and we allow humans to make that line, then it will always be pushed back further and further. its the nature of sin
>I would merely point to things such as Ecclesiastes 3 (‘a time to kill, a time for war’, etc.),
one easily argues that those times are when God makes it explicit
>other things that may only be solved in some cases in this world by force and violence.
I only mildly take issue with your wording here. "only" anon? I think this underscores our faith with God in his end game. but concede somewhat that God has placed judges here for a reason, I just hesitate in asserting what the individual Christian's duty is as far as administering force or violence

[Anonymous No.20465492]

>>20465436
Where does the divide between Shia and Sunni come into all of this. You said that Muslims don't believe in the OT, yet they still believe in Abraham and that Isaac or Ishmael was a prophet and messenger of God/Allah depending on where you stand. Also, does Christianity and Judaism ever address Ishmael? I don't think he was mentioned in the genealogy of Jesus.

[Anonymous No.20465512]

>>20465492
> Where does the divide between Shia and Sunni come into all of this.
Political bickering over who was supposed to lead the Muslim community after death. Really petty stuff basically.

> You said that Muslims don't believe in the OT, yet they still believe in Abraham and that Isaac or Ishmael was a prophet and messenger of God/Allah depending on where you stand.
Since they view the OT as corrupted Scripture, the only things they believe in the OT are what is affirmed in the Qur’an. They don’t believe it to be inspired or authoritative.

> Also, does Christianity and Judaism ever address Ishmael?
He’s in the Bible, but he’s not really important, in the same way that Esau isn’t important compared to Jacob. The OT is about Israel, the covenant people of Abraham descended through the line of Isaac, who was the child of promise to Abraham—“ through Isaac shall your offspring be named” (Genesis 21:12). Islam became a thing, I think, because Arabs did have some idea of themselves as Ishmaelites, and there are sources in the centuries proceeding Islam which mention they became aware of this through contact with Jews, and adopted aspects of Hebrew dietary laws and customs.

[Anonymous No.20465545]

>>20465512
Sorry for all the questions. This will be the last one. In what way is the Qur'an different from Christian and Judaic texts? Obviously the scriptures encourage peace within the Islamic community and whatnot and all that stuff on eliminating perceived enemies of Islam through Jihad, but aside from that, does the Qur'an include anything that radically separates Islam from the two former religions?

Appreciate the answers.

[Anonymous No.20465583]

>>20465545
> In what way is the Qur'an different from Christian and Judaic texts?
The Qur’an lacks a linear narrative organization or any sort of clear topical arrangement. It’s really all over the place and the topic will change on a dime, either giving various laws, or giving highly summarized retellings of Biblical stories or extolling Allah’s greatness. There is no clear organization either within chapters, or between chapters, and the chapters are arranged essentially from longest to shortest. Most of the Qur’an is written from the perspective of a ‘divine voice’ that seems to be addressing an individual or a group of individuals, either believers or pagans depending on the context. There are no direct quotes from the OT or NT, and no way to know the story of Muhammad from the text, or any events in the early Muslim community apart from elusive references. This might sound like I’m being unfair, but this is exactly what the book is like. It’s disjointed and all over the place.

> but aside from that, does the Qur'an include anything that radically separates Islam from the two former religions?
Islam has some weird ecumenist bent in some chapters saying that Christians and Jews can be saved, but in other chapters will call them unbelievers and that no one should associate with them or make friends with them. That’s one aspect that sticks out. I do think there is a much more militant ethos too. Islam overall is much more like *modern* Judaism than Christianity and 2nd Temple period Judaism. There are also some things mixed in from Arab paganism like the Kaaba and pilgrimages too the Kaaba, and the existence of jinn, some of which are Muslims.

And no problem, anon, I’ll check the thread tomorrow when I wake up if you want to know anything else.

[Anonymous No.20466045]

Repent, Reconcile, and Recommune.

[Anonymous No.20466198]

>>20465583
>And no problem, anon, I’ll check the thread tomorrow when I wake up if you want to know anything else.
Great. I've got a bunch more questions including some low-hanging fruit ones I'd like to hear your perspective on, so I apologize in advance if they're annoying.

In the Gospel of Matthew, when Jesus is on the mountain in Galilee, Jesus says to never retaliate against your enemies, and if the situation ever occurs, offer your opposite cheek to the one slaps you and go several miles if commanded to go one mile. My question is why would Jesus go so far to as facilitate your own suffering? If there are forces in the world actively seeking to destroy you and what you believe in whether through explicit or implicit means, why would you not retaliate? Is this supposed to serve as some test of faith? That the material world, and what goes on in it, does not matter in the grand scheme of things as long as you're serving the Lord? What if a foreign ministry is attempting to sway the masses with a false god while slandering the Christian God? Is war ever justified in cases such as these?

How do Christians deal with the question of evil in the world and free will? If we are to believe that God is an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good force, then what was the purpose of God creating us in his image and putting us on earth in the first place?

Does the Protestant sect completely miss the point of picking up the cross and facing self-effacement among other things? To me, I didn't have a problem with it at first, but now I believe that if it's taken to its logical end and put to the test, forgoing the teachings of Jesus and his disciples only drives you away further from God. The effects of this can very easily be seen today through things such as the pornographic industry. Martin Luther was obviously a well-read, intelligent person, but did he not have the foresight to see the end-goal of Protestantism? While he may have been wrong, that still doesn't excuse the Catholic church from selling indulgences, which brings me to my next question: how do you feel about the Catholic Church's various transgressions from selling indulgences to the sexual abuse of children? If I am to believe to that the priesthood serves as a divine link to God, then how can I have confidence in their teachings seeing as how there may be transgressors among them?

Does Saul's becoming into Paul imply that that even the most wicked among us can be saved?

How do you feel about Christianity placing women beneath men? There many stories from Genesis to the Epic of Gilgamesh which imply that knowledge of sex can corrupt an otherwise moral man. That being said, considering the current times in which we live in, what do you make of it?

What do you think of Christianity's views on homosexuality and on Pope Francis' rather conciliatory approach to the LGBT community?

What do you think of practices such as meditation, an inherently Buddhist tradition?

Cont. (1/2)

[Anonymous No.20466227]

>>20466198
What exactly do Orthodox Christians believe in? I've seen videos of Orthodox Churches in Russia, and there are usually plenty of crucifixes and candle holders and other things embellished in gold and jewels, which sort of remind of idol worship. What about the evangelists? Why do they have such a bad reputation in America?

How do you feel about the way Christianity is taught to the youth today? Personally, I've attended Sunday school, and I think part of the reason why I was driven away from Christianity was the way the teachings were sort of trivialized if that makes sense. In a way, I kind of felt condescended to when one of the volunteers would offer a reductionist view on Jesus and Christianity completely missing the nuances.

That's all I've got right now. Feel free to answer any of the following questions.

(2/2)

[Anonymous No.20466284]

>>20466227
Can you also interpret Matthew 5:29?
>If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

[Anonymous No.20466449]

>eastern obesity church

[Anonymous No.20466850]

>>20466449
I heard that in the book Maccabeus of the Apocrypha is mentioned 'Purgatory' or something therelike.
Is this true?

[Anonymous No.20466857]

I heard that in the book Maccabeus of the Apocrypha is mentioned 'Purgatory' or something therelike.
Is this true?

[Anonymous No.20466932]

>>20466198
I think part of it is that Jesus teaches that we are to be like God, and that a key part of the Gospel is being renewed in God’s image and likeness, and part of being like God seems to necessitate a sort of radical unconditional love and humility that are mind-boggling to be perfectly honest. I base this off of a few sections like Matthew 5:44-45, and 5:48:
>But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous
> Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Also Luke 6:40
> A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
Basically theosis. I think the whole Sermon on the Mount is essentially Jesus revealing the absolute highest standards of behavior (‘Be perfect’). We can still seem them embodied by saints and monks of recent centuries, and even decades. We have to remember that the thief on the cross was saved just for rebuking a man for insulting Jesus and asked Jesus to remember him in his Kingdom. I think Jesus is asking one to put the Kingdom of God as the absolute highest value and tells us to value the integrity of our soul above worldly comforts, we can sort of see this in the sections where Jesus says it will be part to tear out your eye than for your your whole body to be cast into hell, or that we should lay up treasures in heaven, and not seek out primarily impermanent things here in this world. All of this like I said ultimately, I think, has to do with the imitation of God (Ephesians 5:1), and preparing to be able to sacrifice everything for the sake of the Kingdom, as we see among the martyrs of the Church throughout history.

When it comes to war, this is a difficult question. I think there are situations in which war will be impossible to avoid. It won’t be a good thing, but it will happen, and to avoid greater injustice it probably should in some circumstances. This is a hard question though, I think almost all of the conflicts on earth are vain and a waste of lives.

> evil
I see evil as the result of free will primarily, it only comes from the will of beings such as humans, and isn’t a substance or anything. When it comes to ‘natural evils’ (I would dispute this term, but whatever), these are the result of the Fall essentially. A lot of what we see in the world is conducive towards the edification of our souls and a turning towards God. How many times can we chase pleasures and outward things in this world before we realize that desire will always come back, and we will look for something more permanent and lasting? Many will be led to God. Many more examples could be offered, I think. This is the primary purpose of this world now—God curses the ground in Genesis 3 ‘for your sake’.

This post is getting long, I will make another soon.

[Anonymous No.20467035]

>>20465255
Based and Dyerpilled!!!

[Anonymous No.20467098]

>>20466198
>Protestantism
Yeah, I think Protestantism is too this-worldly and doesn’t take more seriously some of the ‘hard’ teachings of Christ. I think the Reformers were acting against real corruption, but they approached it in a completely wrong-headed way that broke with the (uncorrupted) traditions of the Church, and innovated with heresies like sola fide, sola scriptura, etc. Attempting to remove books from the New Testament in Luther’s case, and even removing parts of the OT that the Jews did not have are horrible as well.

> you feel about the Catholic Church's various transgressions from selling indulgences to the sexual abuse of children?
A sign of corruption and fruits to judge by, as far as I see it. The Catholic Church is built on the lie of papal supremacy, and has gotten carried away with Peter being the ‘Rock’, as opposed to Christ (as most early interpreters believed). Their forays into ecumenism and inter-religious dialogue fit right in with lies, corruption and abuse. Not all Catholics are bad though, needless to say.

>priests
I am not sure if the priesthood can be described as a ‘divine link to God’, but they do play an important role in ministering the sacraments and managing the Church. Paul makes it clear though that elders / overseers (where priests and bishops come from) are to be self-controlled, wise, gentle and respected by others. In a sense all Christians are priests, as we see in Revelation 5:10 (the term is different from what Paul uses in 1 Timothy 3).

> Does Saul's becoming into Paul imply that that even the most wicked among us can be saved?
Anyone can be saved if they turn to God in their heart and repent of their evil deeds. To mention the thief on the cross again, who knows what horrible things he did before truly repenting.

>women
I think that men and women are different and are suited for different roles, and that both man and woman complement one another. Today’s society is founded on trying to make women into poor imitations of men, and tries to turn the two sexes against each other. Sex can absolutely corrupt. We see that marriages are falling apart today and that millions are addicted to pornography. All of this is a horrible thing that comes from forgetting the sanctity of marriage, the importance of modesty, and the differences between the sexes.

>LGBT
Homosexuality is a great sin and is against God’s natural order, in the same way that adultery is. As Paul says, those who engage in it will not inherit the Kingdom of God. It should not be encouraged. But efforts should be to get homosexuals to repent and reform their ways. They shouldn’t be told they are damned here and now, they just need to know that they are on a path of self-destruction, and that we want to see them saved. Maybe that is what Francis is trying to do, but probably not.

cont.

[Anonymous No.20467180]

>>20466198
> What do you think of practices such as meditation, an inherently Buddhist tradition?
I have nothing against meditation per se, depending on what is meant by that. If one means sitting still, focusing on God, saying a prayer (e.g. the Jesus prayer), or something like that, then it is fine, I think. I do things like, occasionally. If one means saying ‘aum’ and engaging in specifically Hindu / Buddhist practices, then that is not good.

>>20466227
>Orthodox
Full disclosure, I regularly attend an Orthodox church myself in America—the way I see it, the embellishment itself isn’t bad. We see that the Ark of the Covenant was made of gold and had statues atop it, and that the tabernacle itself was very elaborate and ornate. Same with the holy of holies in Solomon’s temple, which was a room of pure gold, essentially. Now the church I attend is a brick building with some murals of Gospel scenes, iconography, candles and the like, so it’s not too fancy, but they try to make it look beautiful, which is important. When it comes to icons, the main arguments for them are set out in three treatises by St. John of Damascus. Crucially, idols are statues created in which a ‘god’ is said to dwell inside, and is worshiped as a god by those before it. We can see Hindus today who give offerings to statues, pour libations, dress the statues, and much else that you will never see Orthodox Christians doing with an image of Jesus.

> Why do they have such a bad reputation in America?
Most people in America have no idea what Orthodoxy is, it’s that small. What most people will say against it here is that it’s ‘ethnic’ or something. This is sort of a meme, but very ethnic Orthodox churches *do* exist. But there are lots and lots of convert-heavy parishes too, and the English is done in English, and the priests are Americans, etc. That’s my experience. I’ve been to Serbian churches here too that are catering mostly to Serbs, and that’s their prerogative as far as I’m concerned. The jurisdictional mess in America should be fixed though.

> What about the evangelists?
Evangelicals?
They’re just kind of goofy Protestants. Too politicized in many cases. Not bad people, usually.

> How do you feel about the way Christianity is taught to the youth today?
Horrible. I went to a Methodist Sunday school for a while when I was little and it was awful.

Hopefully I answered everything ok, I will check back in a while.

[Anonymous No.20467251]

>>20465428

Source: Mauro Biglino.

[Anonymous No.20467360]

my great sin is wrath and I do not feel I have the strength to overcome it

the world is only going to become more bleak and sinful in the coming years and the things that make men contemptible today will pale in comparison to the things that will happen in the future

[Anonymous No.20467516]

>>20467360
It’s inevitable, so I don’t really sweat it that much. Do I want it to? Not really, it’s kind of painful to see how everyone seems to just be marching towards their own destruction, but if anything these people are to be pitied more than anything, because they are being manipulated and lied too. They need prayers if anything.

[Anonymous No.20467695]

Are we in the end times

[Anonymous No.20467706]

>>20467695
feels like we're getting close

[Anonymous No.20467770]

>>20466857
It's not mentioned as such.

There's a passage in 2 Maccabees 12:38-45 in which Judas Maccabeus and his army are preparing to bury some of their fallen when they discover that each of the dead were wearing "sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia" under their cloaks, which they shouldn't be wearing as pious Jews. The text explains that this was the reason these men died in battle. Judas and his army pray for God to forgive and blot out the sin of their fallen comrades.

v.44
>"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead."

So that's where some Christians get the idea of praying for the dead, provided they hold 2 Maccabess to be inspired scripture.

Purgatory itself, to my knowledge, is not explicitly mentioned at all in the Bible, apocrypha or otherwise. From what I understand, the doctrine is meant to explain how souls are sanctified before entering heaven upon death. Obviously, not even the best of us die sinless upon death (covered by the blood of Christ we may be). Sin is already atoned for, but how is it we become personally sinless by the time we are in God's presence? There are many Bible passages that discuss God refining and purging our hearts like gold in the fire, so Roman Catholics find it plausible that God completes the purging process after death (hence, "purgatory"). And while your loved ones go through that process, you can pray for them.

That's my understanding of the doctrine, anyway, and I am not a Catholic but an Evangelical. Any Catholicanons are welcome to correct me.

[Anonymous No.20467788]

>>20465380
I tip my fedora to you fellow sir!

[Anonymous No.20467808]

>>20467770
I go to a Baptist church with my parents. I am scheduled to get baptized in a few weeks.
However I also have been learning about Orthodox Christian theology and I think that it has been very helpful because they explain things in a way that is more specific and concrete with like precise definitions and a very robust system of theology.
The people at our Baptist church are very nice but in my opinion the theology is not really as robust and precisely explained. It tends to be more emotional. But not always desu. In fact there have been times when I noticed that our pastor said things that are very much in line with Orthodox theology.

[Anonymous No.20467821]

Ipuwer Papyrus. Ancient Egyptian Papyrus written by a sage named Ipuwer which seems to correlate a first hand account of many of the 10 plagues.

Ipuwer:
2:5-6 Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
2:10 The river is blood.
2:10 Men shrink from tasting human beings, and thirst after water
2:10 Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
5:5 All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan.
9:11 The land is without light.
4:3 (5:6) Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls.
6:12 Forsooth, the children of princes are cast out in the streets.
3:14 It is groaning throughout the land, mingled with lamentations.
7:1 Behold, the fire has mounted up on high. Its burning goes forth against the enemies of the land.

From my understanding only the extremely educated or elite of egypt could read/write. So we know this wasn't just written by "some guy" but rather someone who held high office and would have been very educated at the time.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.20467982]

>>20467808
>I am scheduled to get baptized in a few weeks.
That's great, brother! I'm very happy for you.

>However I also have been learning about Orthodox Christian theology and I think that it has been very helpful because they explain things in a way that is more specific and concrete with like precise definitions and a very robust system of theology.
I also find that helpful about RC and EO theology. That being said, the predilection toward semantics and definitions easily falls into hair-splitting over disputable matters (which is common to every church tradition, of course, but it comes out especially legalistically in high church traditions). I also don't believe that either the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church are inherently more "apostolic" than any church in which the gospel is preached and the Holy Spirit is present and working (which can certainly include the RC and the EO).
When discussing theology or ecclesiology, it's easy to get lost in the weeds of semantics and conflate human priorities with Jesus' priorities.

I honestly think God doesn't care as much as we do about half the things we discuss in these threads. Sure, he cares that we rightly discern truth, but I don't think he cares about sectarian disputes any more than he did between the Pharisees and Sadducees. He cares about where our hearts are, and about whether we love one another in the face of sectarian differences.

[Anonymous No.20468067]

Is penal substitution a false Gospel? Proponents of it oftentimes link it with sacrifices in the OT, and we know that the acceptable sacrifice in reality to God was a broken spirit, a broken and contritite heart (Psalm 51:16-17). Proverbs 17:15 also teaches that it is an abomination to the Lord to justify the wicked, and to condemn the righteous, and verse 26 says that it is not good to strike a noble man for uprightness, or to impose a fine on him. It seems to me like Christ’s death is supposed to be more of an example for us, a display of God’s love, and how we should seek the Kingdom even if it leads to our own deaths, and that God will not abandon us (hence the resurrection, and the descent into Hades, etc.) Christ identifies with us, and brings our nature into communion with God like never before, and asks that we do the same and become like him, who is God. We see Christ drink of the cup that will lead to his death, and he tells his disciples to drink of the same cup, and to bear the same cross—not that he is going to die in place of them for a legal transaction. It’s also interesting that the quotation of Isaiah 53 that says that he bore our diseases and infirmities is used when Jesus is merely healing people and expelling demons from them (Matthew 8:16-17). Here he is not taking diseases onto himself, but healing them (interestingly the Greek verb for ‘heal’ is the same used for ‘save’). Maybe I’m wrongheaded, but this is what I have been thinking lately.

[Anonymous No.20468118]

>>20468067
what if it is both?
He is the sacrificial lamb(which you can see in Revelation), and the high priest.
He set an example for us, and saved us from our sins.

[Anonymous No.20468133]

>>20468118
although i'm not sure "high priest" is the right term here.
it's who performed sacrifices for the people's sins (and their own, which doesn't apply in this case because Jesus is sinless, and also is a point Paul makes in explaining how Christ is the fulfillment of the Law)

[Anonymous No.20468199]

>>20468118
>>20468133
I just find it to be a contradiction that Christ teaches us to freely forgive our neighbors and brothers, but then on the otherhand we see God having to do some complex legal mechanism involving the Son in order to forgive sins. That is what has me wondering whether there is something deeper going on. I’m not trying to downplay the death on the cross, though, of course, I’m just trying to conceptualize it. It’s also possible that Christ demonstrates his mercy and forgiveness and hatred of sin via his death, and this in a sense functions as a ‘payment’, and draws us close to Christ via his blood and example, just like the ones who looked upon the snake Moses put up on the pole were saved.

[Anonymous No.20468354]

If chastity is given only to those few who can successfully transcend all fleshly desire by the gift of God, and marriage is for all others, who need help in controlling their lusts and living rightly in the sight of God, what is someone with homosexual desires supposed to do? If they have recurring and powerful sexual desires, having not received the gift of chastity, and marriage is denied to them by the traditional interpretation of the Scriptures, what are they supposed to do? Sin forever through masturbation, lust, etc.? Pray that God deliver them from their sexual desires entirely, that he give to them the gift of chastity? For how many people has that prayer been answered? I want to have sex. Not in an unserious way, but in a committed relationship with another man I love. I want what straight people have. I don't want to live in sin and agony forever. What am I supposed to do? Is the traditional interpretation wrong? Is there any church which is open to same-sex marriages which has not simultaneously abandoned the entire substance of the historic faith? If the traditional interpretation is right, what on earth am I supposed to do? What provision if any has God made for me?

[Anonymous No.20468379]

>>20468354
If you are serious about following Christ, you need to realize that your homosexuality is something to be overcome. Homosexuality is unnatural according to the testimony of Scripture, in the same way that adultery is. It is a sin to participate in, and homosexual ‘marriage’ is no marriage at all. Christ can heal you if you pray to him in humility and truly desire to draw closer to God and follow his commandments. You are looking for ways to justify your sins and your passions, when you must realize that you need Christ to restore you, so you can find a wife, and have a family and serve God. Unrepentant homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom. I am not totally disconnected from what I am saying either, so know that God will help you if you truly wish to follow his will.

[Anonymous No.20468661]

And Yhwh (Lord) spake to Mosheh in the wilderness of Sinay, saying, Count the children of Lewi according to their fathers’ houses, according to their families; every male from a month old and upward shalt thou count them. And Mosheh counted them according to the word of Yhwh (Lord), as he was commanded. And these were the sons of Lewi by their names: Gershon and Qahath and Marari. And these are the names of the sons of Gershon by their families: Livni and Shimi. And the sons of Qahath by their families: Amram and Yis'har, Hevron and Uzzi'el. And the sons of Marari by their families: Mahli and Mushi. Those are the Lewiyi families according to their fathers’ houses.

Of Gershon was the Livniyi family and the Shimiyi family; those are the Gershunni families. Those who were counted of them according to the number of all the males from a month old and upward numbered seven thousand five hundred. The Gershunni families were to pitch behind the tabernacle westward; and the chief of the fathers' house of the Gershunnis was Elyasaf the son of La'el. And the charge of the sons of Gershon in the tent of meeting were the tabernacle, and the tent, the covering thereof, and the screen for the entrance to the tent of meeting, and the hangings of the courtyard, and the screen for the entrance to the courtyard, which is by the tabernacle, and by the altar, round about, and the cords of it for all the service thereof.

And of Qahath was the Amrami family, and the Yis'hari family, and the Hevroni family, and the Azzi'eli family; those are the Qahathi families. According to the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, there were eight thousand six hundred, keeping the charge of the sanctuary. The families of the sons of Qahath were to pitch on the side of the tabernacle southward. And the chief of the fathers’ house of the Qahathi families was Elisafan the son of Uzzi'el. And their charge was the ark, and the table, and the lampstand, and the altars, and the vessels of the sanctuary wherewith they minister, and the screen, and all the service thereof. And Elazar the son of Aharon the priest was to be chief of the Lewiyi chiefs, with the oversight of those who kept the charge of the sanctuary. Of Marari was the Mahliyi family and the Mushiyi family; those are the families of Marari. And those who were counted of them according to the number of all the males from a month old and upward were six thousand two hundred. And the chief of the fathers’ house of the families of Marari was Suri'el the son of Avihayil. They were to pitch on the side of the tabernacle northward. And the appointed charge of the sons of Marari were the tabernacle's boards, and bars, and pillars, and bases, and all the furnishings thereof, and all the service thereof, and the pillars of the courtyard round about, and their bases, and their pegs, and their cords.

[Anonymous No.20468672]

>>20468661
And those who were to pitch before the tabernacle eastward, before the tent of meeting toward the sunrise, were Mosheh and Aharon and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Yisra'el; and the outsider that drew nigh was to be put to death. All who were counted of the Lewiyis, whom Mosheh and Aharon counted at the command of Yhwh (Lord), by their families, all the males from a month old and upward, were twenty-two thousand.

And Yhwh (Lord) said to Mosheh, Count all the firstborn males of the children of Yisra'el from a month old and upward, and take the number of their names. And thou shalt take the Lewiyis for me—I am Yhwh (Lord)—in the stead of all the firstborn among the children of Yisra'el; and the livestock of the Lewiyis in the stead of all the firstlings among the livestock of the children of Yisra'el. And Mosheh counted, as Yhwh (Lord) had commanded him, all the firstborn among the children of Yisra'el. And all the firstborn males from a month old and upward who were counted by the number of names were twenty-two thousand two hundred and seventy-three.

And Yhwh (Lord) spake to Mosheh, saying, Take the Lewiyis in the stead of all the firstborn among the children of Yisra'el, and the livestock of the Lewiyis in the stead of their livestock; and the Lewiyis shall be mine; I am Yhwh (Lord). And as redemption for the two hundred and seventy-three of the firstborn of the children of Yisra'el, who are in excess over the Lewiyis, thou shalt take five sheqels apiece by the poll; according to the sheqel of the sanctuary shalt thou take them—twenty gerahs is the sheqel. And as redemption for those among them who are in excess thou shalt give the money to Aharon and his sons. And Mosheh took the redemption money from those who were in excess of those who were redeemed by the Lewiyis; from the firstborn of the children of Yisra'el took he the money; one thousand three hundred and sixty-five sheqels, according to the sheqel of the sanctuary. And Mosheh gave the redemption money to Aharon and his sons, according to the word of Yhwh (Lord) as Yhwh (Lord) had commanded Mosheh.

And Yhwh (Lord) spake to Mosheh and to Aharon, saying, Take a head count of the sons of Qahath from among the sons of Lewi, according to their families, according to their fathers’ houses, from thirty years old and upward and up to fifty years old, everyone who entereth the host, to do work in the tent of meeting. This shall be the service of the sons of Qahath in the tent of meeting, for the holy of holy things: And Aharon and his sons shall come in when the camp setteth forward, and shall take down the veil of the screen, and cover the ark of the testimony with it, and shall put thereon a covering of violet skin, and shall spread over it a cloth wholly of blue, and shall set the staves thereof.

[Anonymous No.20468676]

>>20468672
And upon the presence table they shall spread a cloth of blue, and put thereon the dishes, and the ladles, and the offering bowls, and the flagons for libation; and the continual bread shall be thereon. And they shall spread upon them a cloth of scarlet, and cover the same with a covering of violet skin, and shall put in the staves thereof. And they shall take a cloth of blue, and cover the lampstand of the light, and its lamps, and its snuffers, and its snuffdishes, and all the oil vessels thereof, which they tend it with. And they shall put it and all the vessels thereof within a covering of violet skin, and shall put it on the carrying frame.

And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of violet skin, and shall put in the staves thereof. And they shall take all the implements of ministry, wherewith they minister in the sanctuary, and put them in a cloth of blue, and cover them with a covering of violet skin, and shall put them on the carrying frame. And they shall take away the ashes from the altar, and spread a purple cloth thereon. And they shall put upon it all the implements thereof, with which they tend it, the firepans, the fleshhooks, and the shovels, and the bowls, all the utensils of the altar; and they shall spread upon it a covering of violet skin, and put in the staves thereof. And they shall take a purple cloth and cover the laver and the stand thereof, and put them within a covering of violet skin, and shall put them on the carrying frame. And when Aharon and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary and all the furnishings of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward, thenceafter the sons of Qahath shall come in to bear them; but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. Those are the things which shall be the burden of the sons of Qahath in the tent of meeting. And the office of Elazar the son of Aharon the priest shall be the oil for the light, and the sweet incense, and the continual meal offering, and the anointing oil; the oversight of all the tabernacle and of all that therein is, with the sanctuary and with the furnishings thereof.

And Yhwh (Lord) spake to Mosheh and to Aharon, saying, Cut ye not off the tribe of the Qahathi families from among the Lewiyis; but thus do unto them, that they may live and not die when they approach the holy of holy things: Aharon and his sons shall come and appoint them, each man to his service and to his burden; but these shall not go in to see the holy things as they are being enwrapped, lest they die.

[Anonymous No.20469236]

Bump

[Anonymous No.20469572]

Discuss

[Anonymous No.20469683]

>>20469572
I avoid secular translations like the plague

[Anonymous No.20469691]

>>20458918
its my favorite book of the bible

[Anonymous No.20469743]

hi frens
my muslim friend showed me pascals wager when i opened up to him about wanting to learn more about religion
it has not left my mind since
im most interested in christianity and i was just wondering if KJV is the go to for someones first Bible?
thanks guys much love

[Anonymous No.20469783]

>>20469743
KJV is not bad, the language can be archaic, but it is very poetic. ESV or NKJV aren’t bad either if you want more modern English

[Anonymous No.20469880]

>>20469783
thanks for the reply anon
is there any reason to avoid a NRSV copy?

[Anonymous No.20469897]

>>20469880
I would advise against it. The translators aim for gender neutral language, and will make decisions out of accordance with Christian teachings, such as saying that the Spirit present in Genesis 1 is just ‘the wind’, or that Isaiah 7 refers to a ‘young woman’ and not a virgin. That’s just two examples off the top of my head.

[Anonymous No.20469951]

>>20469743
You should get the Bible as Literature version that Jordan Peterson recommends.
It’s good if it’s your first read

[Anonymous No.20469967]

>>20469743
i'd second >>20469783

[Anonymous No.20469977]

>>20469572
It is on the level of 'Da Jesus book' as far as translations go.
ESV is the only worthwhile translation of the bible into modern English as far as I am concerned. Provided you go into it knowing the bias it has towards Calvinism. Most other modern English translations are pozzed as hell and thus fundamentally compromised texts.

[Anonymous No.20470022]

>>20469743
i'm glad truth is what caught your interest. God bless you in your studies.
i'd say KJV is hard to read but is very poetic.
if you have the ability to search at any time for the meaning of confusing verses, it's quite nice.

[Anonymous No.20470030]

>>20464939
Woman is a subtraction of man, that new women wouldn't exist without us or God. The whole spiel about "you wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a woman" is complete rubbish if traced far back enough.

[Anonymous No.20470063]

>>20470030
you're putting yourself above them. we're all made in God's image; isn't thinking otherwise pride?
neither would exist without God, and neither could you alone make a woman.
both sides of the argument are wrong.

how does someone twist Scripture so hard they claim Adam wasn't male?

[Anonymous No.20470085]

>>20470063
> how does someone twist Scripture so hard they claim Adam wasn't male?
It’s from this “So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them” — and then of course the creation of Eve from the rib isn’t expanded on until next chapter, so rabbis believed that Adam and Eve were fused together until then.
https://forward.com/community/356899/was-adam-a-hermaphrodite/

[Anonymous No.20470102]

How do we reconcile 1 Corinthians 11 with women being the image of God?
> For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
My interpretation would probably be that man can stand as image of God on his own, while the woman most fully exhibits it in her role as a helper to a man, i.e. in the married state.

[Anonymous No.20470123]

>>20470030
and if you really stop to think about it, there's better implications to take from that: woman was made to be beside man; both are made of the same thing; she was a complement to Adam, a part of him. (see "becoming one flesh" when the Bible talks about marriage?)

>>20470085
classic trifling then. why do they do that to Scripture?
if i were to guess, to muddle the word of God as they've been doing for ages to maintain their positions and power. it's sad to see nowadays it's even worse; they quote unexistant verses, claim that their man-made rulebooks are more important than the word of God.
they even contradict other rabbis from antiquity, who actually recognized proper Scripture (like the consensus Psalm 22 was prophetic, Isaiah 53 referring to the Messiah, etc)

[Anonymous No.20470156]

>>20470063
Its a rhetorical statement

[Anonymous No.20470161]

>>20470123
>why do they do that to Scripture?
Modern Judaism is just debased and full of bizarre interpretations like this. I know I have seen them support pagan ideas like reincarnation based on Deuteronomy 25:5-10, which is about levirate marriage and naming the firstborn of the deceased husband the same name.

[Anonymous No.20470190]

>>20470161
> Rabbi Yitzchak Luria, (the Arizal) writes that Moshe was a reincarnation of Adam’s third son, Sheit (Seth), and that Sheit was a reincarnation of Hevel (Abel). (The mem of Moshe’s name stands for Moshe, the shin stands for Sheit, and the heh for Hevel). The great mishnaic Sage Shamai was a reincarnation of Moshe, and Hillel was a reincarnation of Aharon
https://ohr.edu/explore_judaism/ask_the_rabbi/ask_the_rabbi/530

[Anonymous No.20470197]

>>20470102
it's a metaphor that the Corinths would get (talking about head coverings and whatnot)
1 Corinthians 11:11
>Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

my try at explaining became a mess, so here:
>https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/how-should-we-interpret-1-corinthians-11-2-16
>https://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html

[Anonymous No.20470214]

>>20469572
Bleh translation.
Shit critical notes.
Bretty good translation notes.

Honestly, I wish translations like the NRSV, NET, and NLT just published their page-bottom notes in a separate hardcover or paperback volume. I'd buy them. I couldn't care less about those translations themselves.

[Anonymous No.20470259]

>>20461983
Too much going on in 2nd Samuel. Hurts the brain.
>>20464090
They're teaching that Paul wasn't saved until the 3 days were over.
>>20464634
He is a snake. He has a sermon where he says "This doctrine (sinner's prayer) keeps popping up". Jack Hyles taught it. His college.

[Anonymous No.20470263]

>>20470259
Anti-sinner's prayer*

[Anonymous No.20470273]

>>20470259
>>20470263
And that's the same sermon where he says it's a mental problem

[Anonymous No.20470296]

Should I just read it from first page to last, or is there a better way?

[Anonymous No.20470321]

>>20470296
No. I made that mistake, and I regret it. Either follow Bible in a Year, or read the NT first: Matthew, Mark, Luke+Acts, John, Epistles, Apocolypse. If reading the same story over and over again bothers you, then read Luke+Acts and John, and save the first two Gospels for when you're ready to read them. If you try to read straight through, you will, without fail, get filtered by (A) the second half of Genesis, (B) the second half of Exodus, (C) all of Leviticus, Numbers, and/or Deuteronomy. Trying to read the OT without a reading plan is extremely stupid...I know because I did it. A reading plan that will mix the historical books with the corresponding prophets makes things much smoother to read, much better than just reading all the prophets in bulk and disconnected from their historical period. Also, reading 150 psalms in a row without context is stupid, too.

[Dago No.20470324]

>>20470296
Read the first handful of chapters to understand the whole quality vs quantity thing
Then skip around to topics that interest you
Then reread from beginning (as the Guenon chart says, it requires multiple rereadings)

[Dago No.20470335]

>>20470324
I’m an idiot, I thought this was the Reign of Quantity thread
Topkek
Pbuh

[Anonymous No.20470411]

>>20470296
Whatever you do, just mark off what you've read so you actually read everything. Then do it again.

[Anonymous No.20470547]

You are all wrong, Islam is the truth and you can see it in the faith and the sustained tradition of the people who practice it.

[Anonymous No.20471027]

>>20470547
Your so-called prophet and his ramblings are false. Jesus Christ is Lord.

[Anonymous No.20471050]

Non-Christian here, with NIV of Bible

In what order should I go about reading it? As of right now I am following the "Thematic" plan listed here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-reading-plan/thematic.html
Is it okay? Should I start over with another plan listed here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-reading-plan/

[Anonymous No.20471072]

Do all Jews secretly know the name of Yeshua ?

[Anonymous No.20471102]

>>20471050
What are your thoughts on the Bible, coming from your experience with that study guide? It looks like a weird order that would turn off a Non-Christian in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.20471107]

>>20469743
The main difference between the KJV and the older translations, and the newer ones is that the new ones base itself upon older but fewer manuscripts that are textually criticized by the academia, called Critical Text, and lack some of the parts that are in the KJV. You can look up Critical Text and Majority Text for more information thereon.

I find the KJV to be more interesting to read and therefore I read it. In my opinion, the goal should be to at least read the Bible and for that one should read the translation with which he is most comfortable.

[Anonymous No.20471131]

>>20471102
Well, I am 1 day in (which is why I bothered asking, if it's a bad order might as well change now). So, from what I've read

>Psalm 148
I like it. I watched "The Bible Project" video on it as well. Good stuff.

>Genesis 1-2
I have encountered a lot of what is in here via pop culture and whatnot. I liked it and read up on some background stuff, like theories on what the four rivers are.

(Also this brings up an important point: what are good sources of commentary to read? How much commentary should I read?)

>Ephesians 1
Reminded me of Psalm 148, which I guess was the intention of this reading order.

[Anonymous No.20471132]

>>20471107
>>20469743
Also, if you are going to read the KJV and are unfamiliar with Early Modern English, I suggest that you learn the verb conjugations; it'll make your life much easier.

[Anonymous No.20472027]

>>20470547
Sheer numbers don’t indicate truth, Abdul You Muslims all use this mob mentality to justify your antichrist prophet and his pharasaical cult. Muhammad will kneel and confess Christ as LORD on Judgement Day.

[Anonymous No.20472109]

>>20467821
>Thoughts?
Underrated post.

[Anonymous No.20472113]

>>20467821
I was blown away when I discovered this. It’s really the greatest proof that secular scholars will do extreme mental gymnastics to get around some of this stuff and claim that Exodus is all fake

[Anonymous No.20472849]

bump

[Anonymous No.20472870]

>>20465217
The 5 solas and TULIP are so foreign to Christianity they might as well constitute a separate religion.

[Anonymous No.20472905]

>>20465217
>>20472870
the five solas, with a proper meaning, are not wrong.
TULIP however is absolute nonsense.

[Anonymous No.20472912]

>>20472870
Not nearly as bad as the claim that the "Church™" holds the one and only preserved interpretations of Scripture as handed down straight from the Apostles. Anyone who reads multiple "Church Fathers™" (the ekklesia has *one* Father, God) commentaries on a given passage can readily see that. Were it true then they would all have essentially the same interpretations and they wouldn't be worded so speculatively. They were no different than any of us in seeking to understand Scripture to the best of their own knowledge and insight potentials.

[Anonymous No.20472934]

>>20472905
Sole Scriptura is absolutely retarted, the bible is not the Qu'ran, it didnt fall straight from heaven.
Sole fide is also a retarted way of reading the word "works" which so obviously means the adherence to Jewish law.

>>20472912
> put tm after something like irony bro leftist
Bro seriously? You're telling me these fathers, like Ignatius and Iraneus who studied with tthe apostles and knew Greek are the same as us trying to interpret with " the best of our own knowledge and insight potentials". Get out of here. Also you should maybe read the fathers sometime, they substantially agree on just about everything. Saying the Fathers are just trying to hash it out man like we are is so insane considering how much closer they were in language, culture, and time to Christ.

[Anonymous No.20472991]

>>20472934
the Bible can be interpreted with itself though.
see Josiah finding Scripture in the temple and building it all back up with no "tradition".
and you should always be wary of believing any explanation someone tells you.

as for sola fide, as said, properly explained. the works are necessary, but not exclusive nor the only thing needed. the whole idea is we're not able to keep the Law, therefore we are saved by grace alone (although that doesn't allow you to ditch the Laws, as some like to think.)
we are justified by the faith, and not by the works, but both are important.

[Anonymous No.20473006]

>>20472934
>studied with tthe apostles
Nah, Iraneus merely heard the preaching of Polycarp and there is no reason whatsoever to just automatically assume that Polycarp's relations with John included years of sit down being told what every bit of the entirety of Scripture "means". It's also pretty obvious that the Ignatius letters are almost guaranteed fabrications. The Apostles were rightly expecting Christ's return at any moment, as we each and all still should. They were not planning for a long term institutional organization. They were working under the energies of immediacy and urgency. Once the institution began establishing it needed some retcon to provide Apostolic support for itself.

[Anonymous No.20473014]

>>20472991
>see Josiah finding Scripture in the temple and building it all back up with no "tradition".
Indeed! Good to see this truth spreading.

[Anonymous No.20473034]

>>20458531
Christcucks law: any discussion of anything christian reverts to shit flinging and nonstop infighting by christians with slightly differing interpretations of ambiguous passages.

[Anonymous No.20473036]

>>20472934
If Paul is only talking about Jewish ceremonial works, why does he spend so much time talking about the Gentile's knowledge of God and moral responsibility?
The Bible certainly has to be read in light of the "Regula Fidei," or the Rule of Faith, the Gospel proclamation, as faithfully put down in the ecumenical creeds. Christ is the key to understanding the Bible, and the church knows Christ. But the idea that there is some secret wisdom that the ancient fathers possessed or some oral tradition passed down from bishop to bishop which is necessary for salvation is absurd. All that one would ever need to know about God can be gleaned by grace from the Scriptures by Christians, who are brought into the sacramental community and into the life of the Spirit by the preaching of the Gospel best captured by the creeds.

[Anonymous No.20473160]

>>20473036
Not to mention, the "Church™" wound up essentially reskinning Jewish ceremonial works. It's very telling that when the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, the answer wasn't "well, you absolutely must attend 'Mass™' every week, missing one is a damning sin, and we have all of the other sins catagorized and for each one will prescribe a certain number of praying to Jesus' earthly mother after she ascends into heaven later, never having had other children after Him despite what you may read in what will soon be known as the Gospels, and protip, go ahead and start saving up now so you can pay to spring your loved ones out of a sorta lite version of Hell a little early."

Jailer: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

Paul and Silas: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

[Anonymous No.20473182]

>>20473036
> Christ is the key to understanding the Bible, and the church knows Christ. But the idea that there is some secret wisdom that the ancient fathers possessed or some oral tradition passed down from bishop to bishop which is necessary for salvation is absurd.
Tradition is not about ‘secret wisdom’. The liturgical practices of the church are part of tradition, the specific prayers and hymns of the church are tradition, things like the sign of the cross are tradition, the lives of the saints are tradition, the ecumenical councils are tradition, the accepted Biblical canon is tradition, etc. The Bible is interpreted within tradition according to the lived experience of the church and the ancient fathers of the church (among them are the apostles)

[Anonymous No.20473226]

>>20473182
This is true in a limited sense. Reading the Bible without the tradition is a sure recipe for misunderstanding, and to deny any force to the tradition is to deny implicitly the victory of Christ and the work of the Spirit in history. But to identify everything about the Christian community, what it has said or sung or believed about X, Y or Z at any given point in time unambiguously with the work of the Spirit is to ignore our sinful nature and to close ourselves and the whole community off from proper divine correction, proper attentiveness to God's Word and will. No tradition or council is locally infallible. The deposit of baptismal faith recorded in the creeds is true, and the Scriptures are inspired, and it is our responsibility to conform ourselves more and more to these standards, and reject the errors of our past. The church as a whole can repent, in fact MUST continually repent.

[Anonymous No.20473261]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afVN-7vY0KA&list=PLH0Szn1yYNecMAddeR4wylgGhF1rjJqzH

This stuff is pure kino
It's like kurzgesagt but for the Bible

[Anonymous No.20473343]

>>20473226
The real truth is that none of that other stuff is absolutely essential. With nothing but Scripture one can realize that everyone including themselves is sinful, that we fell into that state, that there was a sacrificial system of atonement, that an aspect of God Himself incarnated among us, that we killed Him, that He was the ultimate sacrificial lamb for us, and that believing on Him leads to our salvation. That is absolutely all that is required. Just because it only takes one paragraph to say does not mean that it is "easy peasy", and in fact we are instructed to work that salvation out in fear and trembling, but Scripture, all by itself, contains everything we need:

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works.

[Anonymous No.20473401]

>>20465186
You are able to believe that evolution may have been the providentially directed means by which God created life in the universe as a Catholic. You are not allowed to teach that this is a settled fact, and you must agree to submit to the magisterium should it rule otherwise. I recommend watching the Thomistic Institute's recent series of videos on this topic for more information. May the Holy Spirit guide you into all Truth.

[Anonymous No.20473405]

>>20473343
> that an aspect of God Himself
This is a heresy and is not Trinitarian. This is why you need the Church.

> 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works.
You can’t know what Scripture is apart from Church tradition. Paul almost certainly didn’t count his epistles as ‘Scripture’ when he was writing them, and was only referring to Old Testament books, since there was no NT at that point. Without the Church you can’t even tell what is Scripture and what is not. Also, no one is denying that Scripture is important, we’re just refuting your ridiculous heresy.

[Anonymous No.20473419]

>>20473343
>Consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you encounter trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Allow perseverance to finish its work, so that you may be mature and perfect, not lacking anything. (James 1:2-4)
Just because something may contribute to man's perfection, does not mean that that thing ALONE is the sole factor necessary for a man's perfection. Applying your same eisegesis would necessitate that perseverance alone makes a man perfect. This is why you need the Magisterium.

[Anonymous No.20473442]

>>20473405
>>20473419
You don't need a magesterium to know what Scripture is, only to be engrafted into the covenant community of God. Ancient Israel had no pope, and knew what was and was not inspired, certain books were laid up in the Temple and others weren't. The community knows has received the canon and passes on knowledge of it, but is still subordinate to it, and capable of correction by it. You don't need to choose between an infallible church or epistemic anarchy. God is faithful. My take as a Lutheran.

[Anonymous No.20473447]

>>20473405
>is a heresy
No it isn't, He and the Father are one, straight from His own mouth, yet He is also not the entirety of the Father, per many, many references He made to the Father, praying to the Father, doing the Father's will, etc. You are attempting to nitpick a single word and what it means as being essential, when Christ Himself said that the Father seeks those who worship in spirit and in truth, and it no longer even mattered who was "right" between the Levites and the Samaritans. The "Church™" has filled you full of distractions from what truly matters to God, and in fact even diverted many of your prayers from Him to "Mary" and alleged "saints". Also Peter, in Scripture, informs us of Paul's epistles being Scripture.

https://biblehub.com/2_peter/3-16.htm

[Anonymous No.20473460]

>>20473447
> Also Peter, in Scripture, informs us of Paul's epistles being Scripture
How do you know Peter’s epistle saying Paul’s letters are Scripture is Scripture itself? Apostolic tradition. Sola Scriptura is not self-authenticating and thus refutes itself

[Anonymous No.20473496]

There's a nearby Greek Orthodox Chuch that has a Matins and Divine Liturgy service tomorrow from 9AM to 12PM. Can I just turn up? Is there anything I should know? I know they'll do part of the service in Greek, but is there anything else I should keep in mind?

[Anonymous No.20473499]

>>20473343
>we killed Him
I'm not jewish

[Anonymous No.20473513]

>>20473496
You can just show up. Just know it is closed communion. I read this before I first went to a Divine Liturgy and I found it helpful.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/frederica/12-things

[Anonymous No.20473576]

>>20473513
Thanks, very nice!

[Anonymous No.20473595]

>>20473442
Ancient Israel had a pontifex maximus, and a collective teaching body composed of those who sat "on the seat of Moses", and had the authority to bind and loose matters of faith and morals authoritatively for the Hebrew faithful. These things were a foreshadowing of the fulfillment in Christ and His Church. To deny an infallible Church appears to be a denial of Christ's words - do the apostles, led by Peter, have a divine promise that what they bind on earth will have been bound in heaven? Do they have the prerogative to feed and tend the sheep in Christ's stead - and conversely, to excommunicate, thereby "handing over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh"? Will the gates of Hell prevail against this Church led by the apostles and their successors? You have all the makings of infallible authority and magisterium right in scripture.

[Anonymous No.20473608]

>>20473576
One more thing I should probably mention, if the place you’re going to has times listed for Matins and *then* Divine Liturgy, aim for the Divine Liturgy over the Matins. As irreverant as it might sound, Matins isn’t the most interesting thing in the world. In my parish almost no-one is there before like ten minutes or so before the Divine Liturgy.

[Anonymous No.20473629]

>>20472934
The fathers also lived with far greater obstacles to travel and communication between each other than today and some would never set foot in eachother's countries or the holy land for that matter.

[Anonymous No.20473632]

>>20473595
The high priest of the new covenant is Jesus Christ alone. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the scribes were somehow infallible and incapable of having their doctrine corrected, but I'm genuinely open to being corrected if I'm ignorant of or forgetting something. I don't believe that the gates of Hell will prevail against the church, but don't see evidence in Scripture or in the practice of the early church for the Roman model of ecclesiastical polity.

[Anonymous No.20473635]

>>20473629
>or the holy land for that matter.
Prot moment.

[Anonymous No.20473704]

>>20473632
>The high priest of the new covenant is Jesus Christ alone
The Lord's kingdom is manifest on Earth as it is in heaven, in a parallel manner, until the Lord's return. We would say that Christ Himself is the good shepherd and leader of all Christians, who feeds and cares for His sheep, right? And yet Peter, in this period before the second coming, is made the chief shepherd of the flock, being told by divine promise to "tend [Christ's] sheep", and "feed [Christ's] sheep". The same is true of the earthly priesthood - the priests operate in the person of Christ, and the greatest among those priests (the servant of the servants of God) is the successor of Peter. We would, of course, agree that Christ is both chief shepherd and chief priest.
>I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the scribes were somehow infallible and incapable of having their doctrine corrected, but I'm genuinely open to being corrected if I'm ignorant of or forgetting something
Christ said quite clearly: “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you." (Matthew 23:2). This was all connected to the idea of Mosaic succession, and how the Sanhedrin inherited the authority of being able to bind and loose from the authority of Moses by divine promise.
>don't see evidence in Scripture or in the practice of the early church for the Roman model of ecclesiastical polity.
If the Holy Spirit guides the Church into all truth, as Christ promised, He would ensure that it would not fall into falsehood. If He ensured that it would not fall into falsehood, He would ensure that if the leaders of the earthly Church gathered together in council, that they would not fall into falsehood. The councils taught the Catholic model of leadership and governance. Thus, the Catholic model of governance is the correct model of governance, being stamped with divine approval by the protection of the Holy Spirit. I was initially incredibly resistant against Catholicism, believing it to be corrupted, but I can no longer see any other conclusion as true: it is the One true Church, which has never fallen into error.

[Anonymous No.20473718]

>>20473632
>The high priest of the new covenant is Jesus Christ alone
The Lord's kingdom is manifest on Earth as it is in heaven, in a parallel manner, until the Lord's return. We would say that Christ Himself is the good shepherd and leader of all Christians, who feeds and cares for His sheep, right? And yet Peter, in this period before the second coming, is made the chief shepherd of the flock, being told by divine promise to "tend [Christ's] sheep", and "feed [Christ's] sheep". The same is true of the earthly priesthood - the priests operate in the person of Christ, and the greatest among those priests (the servant of the servants of God) is the successor of Peter. We would, of course, agree that Christ is both chief shepherd and chief priest.
>I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the scribes were somehow infallible and incapable of having their doctrine corrected, but I'm genuinely open to being corrected if I'm ignorant of or forgetting something
Christ said quite clearly: “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So practice and observe everything they tell you." (Matthew 23:2). This was all connected to the idea of Mosaic succession, and how the Sanhedrin inherited the authority of being able to bind and loose from the authority of Moses by divine promise.
>don't see evidence in Scripture or in the practice of the early church for the Roman model of ecclesiastical polity.
If the Holy Spirit guides the Church into all truth, as Christ promised, He would ensure that it would not fall into falsehood. If He ensured that it would not fall into falsehood, He would ensure that if the leaders of the earthly Church gathered together in council, that they would not fall into falsehood. The councils taught the Catholic model of leadership and governance. Thus, the Catholic model of governance is the correct model of governance, being stamped with divine approval by the protection of the Holy Spirit. I was initially incredibly resistant against Catholicism, believing it to be corrupted; but now, it appears to me that the only rational option is to believe that the Catholic church is that "one, holy, catholic and apostolic" Church, which has never fallen into error.

[Anonymous No.20473780]

crazy how even before the days of ancient egypt God warned against worshippers of baal/moloch and child sacrifices to them

~4000 years later and these people are still committing some of the greatest evils on earth

[Anonymous No.20473789]

>>20473718
Peter was married as is expected of bishops.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

[Anonymous No.20473801]

Is it me or prot churches avoid stating their denomination? Are the just nondenominational? For example what church is this? https://rhcconline.ca/

[Anonymous No.20473809]

tfw you give your leather bible a deep sniff before, during, and after reading

[Anonymous No.20473814]

>>20473801
>you've got to have and state a label, bro, you can't just tell what you believe
https://rhcconline.ca/our-beliefs/

[Anonymous No.20473829]

>>20473809
Mine barely has any discernible smell remaining.

[Anonymous No.20473879]

>>20473780
It always follows this pattern.
>Um sweaty pie, that is a made up conspiracy theory and you're a lunatic for believing it.
and then
>Yes it's real and that's a good thing and you're a bigot for not liking it.

[Anonymous No.20474058]

>>20473814
So what are they? Lutheran?

[Anonymous No.20474067]

>>20474058
As best I can tell they are Christians.

[Anonymous No.20474072]

I haven't read about satan yet because I'm only in 2 Samuel.

Why is he called satan instead of lucifer?
Does he "rule" over hell as how he is depicted in pop culture to be a sort of king of hell. Or is he just a very powerful being that's stuck there? But he also has influence on earth and on human beings?

I only know kind of vaguely that he was an angel that challenged God's authority and was cast out of heaven or something.

[Anonymous No.20474076]

>>20474067
Christianity is split into denominations. They're protestant. Why hide the denomination?

[Anonymous No.20474202]

>>20474076
Because catholics aren’t christian. Christianity = protestant
Catholic = satanism

[Anonymous No.20474213]

>>20468354
EVERYONE lives in sin. Straight people divorce at the drop of a hat, have casual sex, cheat, fuck underage girls, you name it. Pride culture and kink culture are pretty awful but it's not like straight people are living sinless, godly lives. There are none righteous, no, not one.

[Anonymous No.20474249]

>>20474072
lucifer means light-bearing. angel name.
satan means accuser, which is a title.
no, hell is his punishment. and he's not been thrown down there (yet. that will happen in the final judgement)
not powerful at all; the tempter can do nothing more than tempt, and if it is resisted, he can do nothing.

basically that. wanted to put himself above God out of pride, and was cast down from heaven.

quite telling that's the cultural portrayal, is it not?
exactly what the devil did, challenge God (and by extension perfection and goodness) is portrayed as somehow being "powerful".

as for an example of that accusing, original sin.
he got Adam and Eve to disobey God by questioning what God said, and they chose to also act pridefully, thinking they should "be like God".

in short, a prideful being who, knowing he's already lost, scrambles to drag more people down along himself.

[Anonymous No.20474255]

>>20474213
No, but that does not mean society is meant to provide a soapbox for it. If you want to make an argument against no-fault divorce and adultery, then do that (I agree, for the record. Marriage and sex have been corrupted thoroughly). But that’s not the discussion being had.

[Anonymous No.20474280]

>>20474213
What's your point? That it's fine to have homosexual intercourse because some straight people divorce?

[Anonymous No.20474314]

now i come here in good faith and i dont wanna be cynical and ironic and i really wanna learn
Also, i profess that i believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate.
But, i just cannot reconcile inquisition and crusades in my mind. How is that not evil act
look at thishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_B%C3%A9ziers
the city had majority of some sectists which were considered heretics and to be killed by the Pope (!!??!)
The guy ordained there said "kill em all, God will sort his own" (!?!?!)
Pope ordained to kill them. People who swore by Jesus and God massacred an entire city worth of people
How am i supposed to trust catholic church?
How am i supposed to think this was just act/ will of God/ righteous act?
Please someone explain this to me...

[Anonymous No.20474363]

>>20474314
whatever someone gives you as an answer, remember catholicism is not Christianity as a whole. some people get turned away from truth because they think the two are different names for the same thing.

[Anonymous No.20474646]

Should a Christian be happy anons?
My dad is a Christian but he has always been a very unhappy and depressed person all my life and I think he has been geting worse lately.

[Anonymous No.20474668]

>>20474314
please anyone?
is there any answer to this?
Jesus said in the Gospels that who lives by the sword dies by the sword or something like that, he certainly didn't condone violence
Now he appointed church to live by his teachings and teach them, to give out Eucharist and all the other things.
What they did then was systematical and preconceived grand scale violence
how is this possible?

[Anonymous No.20474675]

>>20474646
Hello same anon here. I will add something else.
He seems to have a gloomy and depressing effect on people. Like when we go to church and other people are upbeat and cheerful and then they start talking to him and he seems to sort of drag them down. He's not rude or anything like that but his demeanor is just so negative almost all the time.

[Anonymous No.20474717]

>>20474668
The church is the ekklesia, all believers/follower of Christ, regardless of what institution they are or aren't members of. This is an inner state that can only be accurately seen/judged by God. There were always some true members of the ekklesia in the historical institution despite its corruptions. Romans 8:28. For most of that time there was no choice, you were literally forced to be in their institution and anyone that tried to establish outside of it was killed.

[Anonymous No.20474733]

>>20474675
This is a tough call, because knowledge of God provides one a certain type of deep joy, but that doesn't necessarily have to express itself in the ways that the world commonly expects under the term (joy). And then...

Ecclesiastes 7:2 It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. 3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. 4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. 5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

He may really need some sort of help, too, but you have to be very delicate in attempts at interacting on the subject in determining what's going on in his mind/heart.

[Anonymous No.20474999]

>Vespers today is full of hymns calling Arius godless and a heretic
Verses for this mood?

[Anonymous No.20475121]

>>20474999
What a retarded thing to make a hymn out of. Sing "Rock of Ages" instead.

[Anonymous No.20475467]

bump before bed

[Anonymous No.20475563]

>>20475121
Missing out, bro.

[Anonymous No.20476404]

>>20473635
Tell that to all the Christians of antiquity who sought pilgrimage there.

[Anonymous No.20477001]

>>20474314
Heresy isn't about an individual's belief - which is between one man and God - but rather the spreading of sin to the masses by persuasive and seductive false shepherds and pied pipers. If 1 man might die that 100 be saved, is that not enough?
And so is the inverse true when God saved the one righteous man and his family - Lot - from the doomed city of Sodom.

[Anonymous No.20477109]

>>20477001
So you telling me that goal justifies the means?
Thats its okay to kill heretics? That God condones it?
Cause what it sounds like is that the reigning worldy power felt threatened by some other emerging power and used their stronger recourses to eliminate emerging power cause they are wrongthink so that in the future they could continue to reign. Straight out of Orwell novel. Not at all different than what any other secular power did throughout history anywhere in the world.
If there is heresy emerging, shouldnt church pray, and educate, follow commandments and wait for God's sign and for God to work it out? Cause that is what im taught to do on individual level, but apparently church in power doesnt do it that way. Commandment is thou shalt not kill. Also, golden rule is to love neighbour.
Murder is a sin, especially grand scale planned out massacre
If they do that, why would i believe them? They are hipocrites, forcing their rightthink with violence

[Anonymous No.20477139]

>>20474314

Any sane person, Catholic or otherwise, will recognise those as un-Christian acts and worthy of condemnation.

I'm Orthodox, so to my knowledge we don't have that problem - especially since we don't have the problem of believing that anything a bishop does is inherently good and god-inspired, because we don't treat them like Popes.

It's certainly possible for bishops to be righteous and miracle-working, but it's also possible for bishops to be sinners and to condone evil actions, against the teachings of the Church.

[Anonymous No.20477171]

>>20464263
>What should I read to cure my skepticism of the Christian origin of evil?
Isaiah 45:7

[Anonymous No.20477173]

>>20477109
There are people who profit from the perdition of others, and by their profit is their perdition. That is to say that there are people whose position and influence sends people to Hell, and that they wouldn't have otherwise been seduced because of them.
Thou shalt not kill is granted the exception in the Mosaic Law for the 'preservation of life', like self-defence applied to both the individuals and nations alike (the Crusades being a Just War on the defensive relatively loosing side). By this same Law, Jesus healed people on the Sabbath Day, for which the Pharisees detested him. There is also another facet on the Mosaic 'preservation of life': the Eternal life, which is why denying Christ under pain of death and subsequent failure to meet martyrdom is blasphemy unto the Holy Spirit.
In Addendum, all this popular culture of 'the evils of witch-burning' and the Inquisition is misinformation born of the Devil and his lying-media. There were witches, they were evil, they unrepentant deserved it. Research the Druids and you will find dreadful horrors not unlike those of the Canaanites. There are witches today, they are evil, God have mercy upon them. Look up Maria Abrahamovic and 'Spirit Cooking'.

[Anonymous No.20477187]

>>20477173
so its not okay to deny Christ under pain of death, but its okay to kill heretics
interesting
>There are people who profit from the perdition of others
that sounds horrible. i dont think theres spiritual backing to this, sounds like they are sadists

[Anonymous No.20477200]

>>20463823
>Pagan moon god

[Anonymous No.20477218]

>>20477187
Just to add, that distinction is 1st sentence sounds arbitrary, i mean its not arbitrary insofar at it ensures church stays in power, but isnt the goal of christian life salvation and renouncing worldy power? Ie. Sounds like any communist regime, youre not allowed to renounce the party but youre allowed to kill anti-revolutionaries

[Anonymous No.20477237]

>>20477187
>its okay to kill heretics
It's not ideal, but it may be necessary.
>Matthew 18:6
>>20477218
This isn't about preserving power, this is about saving souls, which is why such happenings occur on the farthest reaches of the earth even in isolated mountain villages and tropical islands

[Anonymous No.20477250]

>>20477237
>this is about saving souls
How? please explain it to me

[Anonymous No.20477262]

>>20477237
Just read the matthew line, how does that condone killings of heretics?

[Anonymous No.20477330]

What do Christians do aside from going to Church on Sunday morning? Serious question. Do they all pray every evening? Are there any other rituals aside from the Sunday service?

[Anonymous No.20477369]

>>20477330
The liturgy of the hours or divine office are a series of prayers conducted throughout the day, most often by monastic communities but sometimes by laymen. There are also weekly services outside of Liturgy or Mass, like matins or vespers. It's also very common for Christians to pray in the morning and before bed, before meals, and before travel.
When it comes to specific rituals, there are seven sacraments or mysteries generally recognized across most denominations - baptism, confirmation or chrismation, confession, communion, marriage, ordination, and unction - although not every Christian will receive all of these.

[Anonymous No.20477392]

>>20477369
Is the Mass / Holy Liturgy the most important of those? And do people pray on their knees in the morning/evening or just standing/laying in bed?

[Anonymous No.20477468]

>>20477171
the word there means cakamity or disaster. that is, God blesses those who follow Him, and lets the consequences of their actions get to those who don't.

[Anonymous No.20477477]

>>20477468
*calamity
oops.

[Anonymous No.20477482]

>>20464263
>implies that the evil act already exists at least in principle anyway
It exists in humans since the fall.
> How does a perfect being make something imperfect?
By giving them free will.

Why are these answers unsatisfactory?

[Anonymous No.20477495]

>>20477392
You can pray in a variety of ways, whether silently while sitting or out loud while standing or kneeling. Some incorporate memorized prayers or the reading of psalms, veneration of icons, or tools such as prayer ropes or rosaries.
Liturgy/Mass and Communion are the focal point of Christian worship, but you shouldn't see the sacraments as being ranked hierarchically. Each has a purpose for believers.

[Anonymous No.20477541]

I will be starting the book of Kings this morning with my coffee and watching the birds at my feeder outside the window

For me, its the blue jay. Many people do not like feeding them because they are quite large and eat a lot of seed but they are the most beautiful bird IMO.

It's interesting to think that we as men made in God's image are also gifted with some of his abilities such as the ability to create. Yet at the same time none of man's creation could ever hold a candle to the beauty of nature and God's creation.

[Anonymous No.20477583]

>>20459447
Or a Muslim

[Anonymous No.20477631]

"Gae tell tae me yer brither's name"
"My brither's name, it's Babylon
My brither's name, it's Babylon"
A' doun by the bonnie banks o' Fordie

[Anonymous No.20477637]

"Oh sister, what hae I done tae thee?
Hae I done this dreadful thing tae thee?
Hae I done this dreadful thing tae thee?"
A' doun by the bonnie banks o' Fordie

[Anonymous No.20477641]

So he's taen oot his wee penknife
An' he hae taen o' his ain life
He hae taen o' his ain life
A' doun by the bonnie banks o' Fordie O

[Anonymous No.20477642]

Is Christ eternal in both past and future?

Was Jesus first "begotten" by the Father in Heaven?
or in Mary's womb on Earth?

"Begotten" implies being created, a beginning.

How can Christ be "eternally" "begotten" in Heaven? That's an oxymoron.

[/lit/ janny power abuse No.20477646]

Can someone sort out /lit/ jannies? They just delete literature threads for no reason and ban people for nothing.

>the bible is not literature
It very much is, and it was voted the #1 book on /lit/ 2021 chart https://4chanlit.fandom.com/wiki/Charts?file=Top_100_Books_2021_lit.png#General
>the discussion was offtopic
It wasn't, see >>/lit/thread/S20434354 . And even if it was, why ban OP for 3 days on all boards for "spamming/flooding" when I didn't even make the previous threads?
>go to /his/
Why would we go to /his/ to discuss /lit/'s favorite book?

[Anonymous No.20477657]

>>20477646
I posted it here because I realized /qa/ shut down and not sure where I'm supposed to post it.

[Anonymous No.20477682]

>>20477642
where are you getting the begotten from? a specific verse?
question is a bit confusing.

to say the simplest answer, Christ is God.

[Anonymous No.20477698]

>>20477642
if it's John 3:16, the word is 'monogenes' which means only or one and only.
here: https://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

[Anonymous No.20477713]

>>20477682
>>20477698

>NASB - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn OF ALL creation
Implies he's the first begotten being of all creation

>CSB - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn OVER ALL creation
Implies he was begotten in Mary's womb and inherited authority over all creation

The first one (NASB) is commonly taught, that Christ was the firstborn Son in Heaven, the "eternally" "begotten" Son of the Father.

That can't be right. The "Son" title came only after he was born from Mary.

Christ must have been a part of God in Heaven, but not yet a begotten Son.

[Anonymous No.20477717]

>>20477646
this is the first bible thread that wasn't deleted within a day.

Probably some atheist tranny janny that seethes whenever he sees the thread pop up on the catalog

[Anonymous No.20477729]

>>20477717
>atheist
Jew more likely

[Anonymous No.20477742]

>>20477713
that's just linguistic freedom in translation.
see the greek to sort it out.

[Anonymous No.20477751]

>>20477468
People always say this, ignoring that the word it was translated from is most used to mean bad, sorrow, evil, harm, et cetera.

[Anonymous No.20477790]

>>20477713
check Biblehub and go to commentaries on Colossians 1:15
that'll do a better job than me trying to type it out.

[Anonymous No.20477792]

>>20477646
>why ban OP for 3 days on all boards for "spamming/flooding" when I didn't even make the previous threads?
I had made only the last 2 of the last many threads. The first of those 2 was deleted the next morning and the one before this present one we are in now got me banned 3 days spamming/flooding. The jannies are Satanic so there is no point in trying to make sense of any of it. May God have mercy on them for they know not what faggots they are.

[Anonymous No.20477812]

>>20477792
what do you benefit from calling them bad things? it's even more reason for them to get angry at you.

'bless them that curse you' anon.

[Anonymous No.20477824]

>>20477237
you have no answer, neither does anybody else
what am i even supposed to do, i have no friends or girlfriend with constant intrusive thoughts of blashpemy and no answers as to why is any of that happening and no proof of Gods existence and no proof of holiness of the church
only to learn that God doesnt owe me anything even tho he created me just to suffer pointlessly

[Anonymous No.20477826]

>>20477792
>The jannies are Satanic so there is no point in trying to make sense of any of it.
Yes, but we should still inform the mods about it so they get kicked out for abusing their power.

[Anonymous No.20477832]

>>20477824
Why not ask the priests at your church?

[Anonymous No.20477890]

>>20477812
>'bless them that curse you' anon.
I prayed God's mercy for them right there in my post. I do not care in the least if they are "angry" at me.
>>20477826
>the mods aren't Satanic faggots too
I'm pretty sure it's the mods who issue the bans. If I understand things properly the jannies can delete, but only request bans which get "investigated" and approved/denied by mods. Either way I do not concern myself with these things. I do not go into Satan's lair and attempt to tell him how to run it, I just share and discuss Gods word and truths in it.

[Anonymous No.20478010]

>>20477890
>I just share and discuss Gods word and truths in it.
Yes, but to do that we need to make sure these threads don't continue getting people banned, and we are in the right.

[Anonymous No.20478033]

>>20477832
i did talk to them about my problems, i dont think anything came out of it

[Anonymous No.20478042]

>>20478010
Are you new? What's the big deal about "getting banned"? I generally do not make threads at all because all is vanity of vanities, but the others were getting deleted regularly so I made those when there were none in order to help ensure there is always a Bible thread on /lit/. Mine got deleted, I got banned, yet the next day OP created this thread and here it still is. Nothing has stopped the Bible from being discussed, it just requires dedication to making threads and either waiting out bans or evading them. We are very fortunate for only this petty, comfortable level of persecution in a world where many are slaughtered for it.

[Anonymous No.20478067]

>>20478042
Your arguments are illogical, you're just posturing guided by bravado.

[Anonymous No.20478132]

>>20478067
OK HRTvision. What's illogical is being butthurt over getting b& by Satanic faggot jannies at a gay anime glow honeypot website.

[Anonymous No.20478148]

>>20477824
> with constant intrusive thoughts of blashpemy
Unironically pray that God drive demons away from you, and any time you have such thoughts, think or say repeatedly ‘Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me’. This is how I drive away temptations or demons

[Anonymous No.20478234]

>>20478148
I do literally hundreds of those everyday, im not sure whether it helps.
I masturbated today so now they stopped

[Anonymous No.20478259]

>>20478234
The demons were poking and prodding you until you gave in, essentially. They try and sometimes succeed with me as well. The thing to do is basically go hardcore all-in on praying until the temptation stops and God saves you. They are tests. There’s no better way to build humility

[Anonymous No.20478272]

>>20478148
>have mercy on me’
What does this refer to? I thought people use it when they ask for forgiveness but you seem to ask for help.

[Anonymous No.20478319]

>>20478272
It's both. It's an acknowledgement of our state as sinners who need God and a prayer for God to me merciful despite our transgressions.

[Anonymous No.20478323]

>>20478259
I prayed for a week to the maximum of my ability and also reading philokalia to the max
I just want the voices to stop so i can think, so i can be at peace
I cant give anymore that i can

[Anonymous No.20478340]

>>20478272
I generally understand the use of ‘mercy’ here to be indicating God’s loving disposition towards mankind, his benevolence, good-will, etc., and that we as humans are weak and can do nothing without God, and we thus meekly and humbly ask for his help and grace. This is sort of how I understand the frequent petitions of ‘Lord have mercy’ all throughout the Divine Liturgy as well.

When I repeat the prayer personally, that is what I am thinking of. I never really specifically intended to use it against temptations, but since it is a well-known means of keeping God in one’s heart and mind, and working towards unceasing prayer, I have found it to be particularly helpful in such circumstances.

[Anonymous No.20478350]

>>20478323
I’m no expert, but it seems like if there was a period in which you were particularly spiritually engaged, that you might be getting bad demonic attacks now as a result of progress. Temptations follow grace like a shadow, and as soon as all temptations and passions cease for a period, know that it is only a matter of time before a wave of temptations, tests and attempts to throw you off guard will appear. How long have you been hearing voices? If it’s bad enough you might want to contact your priest, or maybe a doctor if it might not be a spiritual issue.

[Anonymous No.20478393]

>>20478350
>>20478323
I remember something about how the advice the monks of Mount Athos had for intrusive thoughts was to let them gently pass and not dwell on them or resist them.

[Anonymous No.20478404]

>>20478350
Yes i gone to doctor i have diagnosis, so you think its not a spiritual case. If its not a spiritual case, then what else is it? Inb4 illness, what kinda answer is that, its obviously spiritual, its literally demons swearing God and disturbing me

[Anonymous No.20478443]

>>20478393
Pretty much what mindfulness is.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/observe-accept-your-thoughts-but-you-dont-have-to-follow-them#1

[Anonymous No.20478471]

>>20478443
Yes you could draw a parallel there. I think this anon could use that advice because he seems particularily neurotic about these thoughts, not that I blame him, I can't imagine what it would be like.

[Anonymous No.20478520]

>>20478443
I should try meditating and contemplating yes, ive done that before but the thing is its been constant like this for 2 years every day "f*** jesus christ" it says to me for thousand times a day, and when i try to think my subvocalization is hijacked by some female voice, it talks to me over my thoughts and always dubs what i was trying to think with its own voice so that i cant even hear myself think. I literally cannot think.
I had some demon attacks when they told me things to do and they persuaded me theyre entities from God.

2 years ago when life hasnt worked out for me the way i wanted it to, i basically started drinking, being alone all the time and i had some evil thoughts, i wanted revenge on those who wronged me, i also swore God a lot and maybe this is what i got. I still think its not fair considering my life was always shit and i had no meaningful reasons as to why, and then on top of all that this happened

[Anonymous No.20478558]

>>20478520
I'm sorry, that must be torture. I'll keep you in my prayers, just so you know people are praying for you.

[Anonymous No.20478638]

>>20478558
It started by voices of people i know talking to me a lot. I humored them, although im not sure i was even able to hold them back ever. Then i went to some art gallery where there was some woman in charge there. I went back a few times cause i liked her, first time i went she told me to wear blue cause blue is against curses. Later she started popping up in my head telling me stuff, it was all fun and games first and i was seduced telephatically. Nowdays its just torture.
I honestly think that woman is a witch. 100%

[Anonymous No.20478806]

>>20478520
In all conventional outwardly appearing senses my own life is a serious wreck, but I have never blamed God or craved revenge on others, and just put all of my faith into Him regardless. Scripture tells you straightly not to invest your desires and treasures into this world. It seems to me that at least part of the root of these issues you are experiencing comes from backwards prioritizing. This is the standard for this world, but simply cannot be for those who take God seriously. One cannot serve both Him and mammon. I think you should do some deep examination of those aspects within yourself and do not covet the worldly successes and ownings of others. If you have the barest of essentials then praise God every moment and seek His will for (You).

[Anonymous No.20478943]

[Anonymous No.20478957]

>>20478393
Source?

[Anonymous No.20478971]

>>20478638
>first time i went she told me to wear blue cause blue is against curses.
Why would an art gallery manager randomly say that to someone?

[Anonymous No.20478991]

>>20478971
Cause shes a witch

[Anonymous No.20479004]

>>20478991
Something doesn't add up.

[Anonymous No.20479014]

>>20478991
Witches don't exist.

[Anonymous No.20479052]

>>20478943
me at the bottom

[Anonymous No.20479097]

>>20478971
Art gallery managers think they "know things", otherwise they wouldn't be art gallery managers to begin with.
>>20479052
I figure that's at least pretty close to all of us, just keep climbing one step at a time as best you can muster despite the overwhelming pull and weight of sin.
>>20478806
I should have thought to add picrel.

[Anonymous No.20479111]

>>20478957
I'm really sorry, I tried to look it up but I couldn't find it. It was some remark in a video by that Bible Illustrated guy.

[Anonymous No.20479122]

>Bro, your father cut part of your dick off to honour a God that keeps trying have you genocided despite your people being the most beta bitches towards him. Like dude for real I am sorry for the way he behaves with you, and I lowkey understand now why you hate us. I mean, my people literally tortured and killed God on a cross, and in return he made Rome the Capital of its religion making us rich despite us being blasphemous as fuck. You literally give pieces of your Dick away to God, dress like clowns, and observe the most pain in the ass traditions and he keeps trying to erase you with glee in return. I dunno man, maybe you should man up a bit and show your muscles at him for once. Maybe he threats you like shit because you act Like betas, maybe God really hates bitches

[Anonymous No.20479130]

>>20477583
Muslims have more decency.

[Anonymous No.20479142]

[Anonymous No.20479154]

>>20479014
>Witches don’t exist
That’s what they want you to think. Satan, demons, occult secret societies and those who deal in sorcery and witchcraft are absolutely real.
>>20479052
Keeping climbing the ladder, anon

[Anonymous No.20479168]

>>20479154
What are the ones in the bottom right corner doing?

[Anonymous No.20479189]

Are there any podcasts focusing on the Bible that are worthwhile at all?

[Anonymous No.20479194]

What is the general consensus on Judas? Was he simply "bad"? I recently read Three versions of Judas by Borges, and the gospels of Matthew and Mark (Nova Vulgata) and the first and second hypothesis actually make a lot of sense. Basically they say that Judas sacrificed his soul voluntarily, by betraying Jesus, in order to fulfill the prophecies and allow Jesus to sacrifice his life to save mankind.
Basically Judas would be the first martyr.

[Anonymous No.20479196]

>>20479189
Naked Bible, My Strange Bible, Bible Project.

[Anonymous No.20479225]

>>20479194
That's a fictional reimagining, anon.

[Anonymous No.20479230]

>>20479168
I think those are monks praying for the monks climbing the ladder of the virtues towards the Kingdom. They could be novices or something similar.

[Anonymous No.20479274]

>>20479014
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Exodus 22:18

[Anonymous No.20479319]

>>20479194
Judas literally betrayed the Son of God for some coins, I don’t think any valiant motives can be ascribed to him. And after that, he was so grieved that he killed himself rather than repenting sincerely. Judas was in a spiritually blackened state and cared for coins more than eternity, and was tricked by Satan into despairing after the first sin was done, further multiplying his sins.

[Anonymous No.20479392]

>>20479194
Check out Bulgakov's essay "Judas Iscariot: Apostle-Betrayer," you might like it.

[Anonymous No.20479400]

>>20479168
They are demons disguised as "patron saints", tricking the ekklesia into praying to them instead of God.

[Anonymous No.20479423]

>>20479392
Thanks fren

[Anonymous No.20479590]

>>20479004
What doesnt add up, pls explain

[Anonymous No.20479607]

>>20478806
Yes i understand and i happy for you that you realized this and i have too, its just that i felt that i did everything right, and those around me did not, so i figured everything is reverse and i should be evil. I wasnt really evil at any point, i just said that but i just couldnt make myself do evil for real

[Anonymous No.20479672]

>>20479607
>its just that i felt that i did everything right
>and those around me did not
2 mistakes. Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

[Anonymous No.20479681]

>>20479607
>>20479154

[Anonymous No.20479687]

New thread >>20479663we could continue the discussion

[Anonymous No.20479830]

what's the best catholic study Bible in the kindle store?

[Anonymous No.20479939]

>>20479830
This: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DGTHPDN
It's an obscure edition of the Haydock Bible from the end of the 19th century that was loaded with more material.

[Anonymous No.20479965]

>>20467360
>my great sin is wrath and I do not feel I have the strength to overcome it

This anger is the old Adam in you. You need God's grace to heal it. And it is indeed very important to do so. Not for nothing is anger considered one of the seven deadly sins.

St. Basil on anger was very helpful to me:
https://www.holycrossyakima.org/orthodoxPdfs/ON%20ANGER%20St.%20Basil.pdf

There's a longer version of this that's even better, but I'm not sure where to find it online (although it's out there online somewhere, I'm pretty sure, I think inside of a book pdf).

[Anonymous No.20480027]

>>20473261
>It's like kurzgesagt but for the Bible
But the Bible Project is based, and not intentionally misleading. It's in an entirely different category than Kurzgesagt.

[Anonymous No.20480093]

>>20474314
>Please someone explain this to me...

You could try this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiqkUcWLlC0

Or this book:

The Glory of the Crusades by Steve Weidenkopf
>How can the Crusades be called glorious ? Our modern mindset says they were ugly wars of greed and religious intolerance a big reason why Christians and Muslims today can t coexist peacefully. Historian Steve Weidenkopf challenges this received narrative with The Glory of the Crusades. Drawing on the latest and most authentic medieval scholarship, he presents a compelling case for understanding the Crusades as they were when they happened: armed pilgrimages driven by a holy zeal to recover conquered Christian lands. Without whitewashing their failures and even crimes, he debunks the numerous myths about the Crusades that our secular culture uses as clubs to attack the Church. In place of these myths he offers men and women of faith and valor who pledged their lives for the honor of Christ s holy places. With a storyteller s gift, Weidenkopf relates the Crusades many dramas their heroes and villains, battles and sieges, intrigues and coincidences offering a vivid and engrossing account of events that, though centuries old, have profoundly affected the course of our world to the present day.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/194166301X

[Anonymous No.20480247]

>>20473442
This is retarded. There literally wasnt "scripture" or a "bible" until the church declared it so. Ill say it again, you are reading the Bible, a collection of documents over 3000 years redacted by Church authority, not the Qu'ran.

[Anonymous No.20480375]

>>20480027
>But the Bible Project is based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLIabZc0O4c

[Anonymous No.20480485]

Is bible project good or bad? I've been watching the videos after I finish each book

[Anonymous No.20480857]

we've reached bump limit som1 make a new thread QUICK

[Anonymous No.20480879]

>>20480857
already up