The Populist Delusion by Parvini

[Anonymous No.20315003]

What is this book about? What populist delusion does he attack? Where is there a coherent populist tradition espoused that can be attacked?

[Anonymous No.20315012]

>Imperium Press
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.20315091]

>>20315012
>>Imperium Press
no not a vanity press reprinting things

[Anonymous No.20315118]

>>20315091
>>20315012
I like them, they're reprinting old, hard to find material and releasing decent editions. What's not to like?

[Anonymous No.20315231]

>>20315003
Populist delusion = the idea that masses drive social change. Ever think politics is a bottom-up phenomenon where public polls decide what becomes policy? Wrong. An organized minority, a tiny elite, drives social change forward. Regardless of how many marches you have on Washington or London, it'll achieve nothing unless you have elite backing. The core of democratic idea is that you need to have the backing of the people to get anything done. That's the delusion.

[Anonymous No.20315244]

>>20315231
Yeah, that's obvious. Why read a whole book about it.

[Anonymous No.20315253]

>>20315244
Why engage with a book about great thinkers of the past century when you can shitpost on /lit/?

[Anonymous No.20315258]

>>20315003
its Imperium Press so probably some slough about Italian Elite Theory.

their reissues are great but usually their main catalog is hit or miss.

[Anonymous No.20315266]

>>20315253
>great thinkers
What's so great about them? If trite observations like that is what they're offering...

[Anonymous No.20315299]

>>20315003
FOUNDATIONS OF POLITICS

[Anonymous No.20315344]

>>20315244
>Yeah, that's obvious. Why read a whole book about it.
Me with 80% of books.

[Anonymous No.20315348]

Hello my fellow AA appreciators

[Anonymous No.20315384]

>>20315003
>What populist delusion does he attack?
The delusion of going on a march/protest to the capital and changing policy because you've just shown that many people are angry, more or less.
I'm waiting for it to come by mail to read, then I'll decide if I want to convince a friend of a friend who runs a publishing house to get in touch with the publisher/author and get a translation locally.

[Anonymous No.20315387]

>>20315258
The American Extremist is very interesting in a way. When I've read it I kind of thought of it as psychobabble which I didn't like but some of the recent events have made me come back to the idea of the author with extremists being essentially apolitical with their preformative political acts being more of a therapy than anything else.

[Anonymous No.20315389]

>>20315231
That might be part of why some people become glowniggers. They have this realization and think that having fed backing can help them achieve their goals for society, which obviously never works out in their favor.

[Anonymous No.20315403]

>>20315244
Why did such an obvious thing escape Americans on 6th of January 2021?

[Anonymous No.20315413]

>>20315387
I can see that. I mean Hinckley comes to mind. so surreal he's now a rising youtube music star. what universe is this?

[Anonymous No.20315416]

>>20315403
I actually knew people involved (don't ask)

[Anonymous No.20315453]

>>20315416
I watched it live in a livestream and it was clear in an instant that was a set-up. The cops all ran back from the crowd all at once for no reason and the crowd was just standing there for like a minute. After a while the people gradually all started moving toward the building. They let them in.

[Anonymous No.20315496]

>>20315453
some girl I know has been offline for awhile now since that day

[Anonymous No.20315535]

>>20315244
Most current academic history focuses on masses. I think most people need to know that both "great man theory" and the extreme focus on collectives are both just theories and methodologies that shoudn't be absolute.

Some people who read military history really do need to read something else imo. Vise-verse also. People who think trade-union history is just as important as what Napoleon did on personal intuition alone are also retards.

[Anonymous No.20315564]

>>20315118
just tranny seethe

[Anonymous No.20315649]

I read it. Eases you into elite theory, which I had been wanting to read for a while. It's solid. Nothing amazing though. Sorry AA but I didn't purchase it.

[Anonymous No.20315673]

>>20315231
Shit theory.

[Anonymous No.20315836]

>>20315673
cope

[Anonymous No.20315924]

>>20315003
Read Ellul.

[Anonymous No.20316551]

>>20315003
I'm going to need an epub.

[Anonymous No.20316610]

>>20315403
Because the masses are retarded, hence they believe in the populist delusion.

[Anonymous No.20316911]

>>20315231
This is retarded. All the elite theory stuff is vague and vacuous. How do large movements of the public, as in for example the beginnings of unrest during the Great Depression or the Civil Rights Movement, not cause substantial political change?

Reminds me of Ellul. He misses the forest for the trees.

[Anonymous No.20316985]

>>20316911
most Elite theorist would chalk them up to having some element of government involvement, hence astroturf. of course they're not completely 100% correct as anyone else would be on the subject. not all theories about the social realm are without its exceptions.

[Anonymous No.20317046]

>elite theory
>elites control things
WOAH

[Anonymous No.20317117]

>>20316911
>example the beginnings of unrest during the Great Depression or the Civil Rights Movement, not cause substantial political change?
There's one thing you're missing. There was a great unrest due to forced racial integration after civil rights was passed and yet it didn't reverse the course - the only way to resolve it was to run away. If the all powerful state decided your neighbourhood needed dem projects you could only move out.
Unrest without elite approval does nothing, it ends up like the mentioned 6th of January 2021, antilockdown protests or yellow vests. The fact of the matter was that when CRM became a thing, the judicial elites(which have the most inertia of them all) already thought in terms of what we could call disparate impact, there existed many foundations which funded all sorts of pro-integration activism dating back decades before and so on and so on. The unrest was just an impulse for the machine to act.

[Anonymous No.20317123]

>>20317117
the leftists that supported lockdowns have a special place in hell reserved for them.

[Anonymous No.20317155]

>>20316911
Civil Rights Movement was the crowning march of juridical decisions and widespread elite sentiment. What it was not was the people magically coming together and finally realizing what they wanted.

Another example of this is that is often used is the march on London. Largest anti-war protest in Britain ever. What did it achieve? Nothing. The UK government still went to war in Iraq.

[Anonymous No.20317535]

>>20317155
You think those bills would have been legislated, passed, and upheld without the demonstrations by the public? Do you think FDR would have implemented the New Deal if the citizenry wasn't increasingly susceptible to desparate outbursts of violence? Would the US have exited the Vietnam War without such widespread disapproval? Did Occupy Wall Street have any implications? We were in Afghanistan for 20 years. I don't doubt that the upper class has immense political capital to go along with their wealth, nor that they often use it to to the detriment of the middle or lower class, but to say the lower classes are the powerless pawns of the elites is so reductive, and it devolves so often into unverifiable conspiracy theories when a reasonable explanation is right in front of you.

[Anonymous No.20317554]

>>20317155
What are the politics of the elite? Why not colonize Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam? It would make it much easier to allow them to immigrate here and bastardize our population, not to mention allow the firms of the elite to exploit the resources there.

[Anonymous No.20317560]

>>20317535
>You think those bills would have been legislated, passed, and upheld without the demonstrations by the public?
Schools were desegregated despite the public protesting it in 1950's.

[Anonymous No.20317590]

>>20315012

>NOOOO YOU'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT BOOKS THAT ARE FROM MY HECKIN FAVORITE MARXIST HIPSTER COFFEEHOUSE PUBLISHER

[Anonymous No.20317603]

>>20317560
And a larger group was protesting for it. Anyway, segregation continued pretty much unbothered in states like Mississippi for long after Brown v Board. Throughout the 1960s Mississippi governors won on platforms of segregation (stated as such). Hardly the will of the elites.

Regardless, and as much sympathy as I have for the Southern whites, their political exclusion of blacks was pretty blatantly anti-Constitutional.

[Anonymous No.20317709]

>>20317046
We live in a society

[Anonymous No.20318408]

>>20315003
nimrod porcini

[Anonymous No.20318558]

>>20316911
They control information and decisions. Most people just feel, follow, and believe what the media says. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.20318571]

>>20317535
Demonstration by the public would not happen without that elite sentiment.

[Anonymous No.20318673]

>>20318558
This isn't exactly correct in a lot of ways, or at least has some very large and important exceptions. To continue using the same examples, it was not "the media" that led people to initiate Civil Rights protests, and it was not "the media" that led people to sporadically go on hunger marches or riot after the Great Depression. That again is my problem with the elite theories. Yeah, sure, institutions of socialization play a role in what people think. But there are many such institutions (not just "the media," but education, religion, the family, friend circles, etc), and that's to say nothing of material conditions or emotional dispositions that can be taken advantage of (e.g., by MLK or Hitler).

[Anonymous No.20318693]

>>20315231
A tiny elite drives social change fowards, but they don't have to be terribly organized or rich. Plenty of Great Men started out as proles

[Anonymous No.20318721]

>>20318693
I'd say from there that the term "elite" is probably not appropriate then.

[Anonymous No.20318738]

>>20318721
There's two different definitions to the word, and the one you're thinking of is pretty kiked tbqh.

[Anonymous No.20318748]

I want to buy this pakistani woman's book but 20eur for a 200 page paperback isn't in anyway charming plus I'd have to get it shipped to the other side of the world, to my shithole.

[Anonymous No.20318782]

>>20315231
>>20318571
>Regardless of how many marches you have on Washington or London, it'll achieve nothing unless you have elite backing. The core of democratic idea is that you need to have the backing of the people to get anything done. That's the delusion.

First, that's an obvious logical blunder. Needing elite backing doesn't mean that it's sufficient or that backing of the people is not needed. This is also distinct from the claim that an elite minority drives social change. Which elite minority drives which change, and what is the nature or basis of their respective elite status?

>Demonstration by the public would not happen without that elite sentiment.

This is a pretty much tautological version of the thesis.

I also think we should distinguish astroturfing or instances of an elite taking initiative, from attempts to influence or have a hand in an initiative from outside.

>>20318673
>That again is my problem with the elite theories. Yeah, sure, institutions of socialization play a role in what people think. But there are many such institutions (not just "the media," but education, religion, the family, friend circles, etc),

Very good point.

[Anonymous No.20318808]

>>20317603
>And a larger group was protesting for it.
if you think this you're a bona fide moron

[Anonymous No.20318822]

I wonder if someone named Parvini has an ulterior motive for discouraging populist movements in English

[Anonymous No.20318833]

>>20315003
>consent of the governed is illusory
>popular will and sentiment are things acted upon, not independent forces or actors
>any natural order oriented elite has to contend with this, and the amount of social engineering applied to political subjects
>following from this, the Westphalian Delusion of the geopolitical 'realists' like Mearscheimer cannot model private interests in actual control of states with supposed 'objective' self interest(s) because they are the tools and playthings of elites e.g. American inveiglement into the world wars following elite capture inaugurated by the Federal Reserve Act and cemented by UK rigging of FDR's final election with a Republican patsy in the primaries going both against the popular will, and the 'objective' geopolitical interests of its state, excepting a Pyhrric anti-European colonial gambit that's gifted us the current nuclear proliferated order, compliments of 'Majoritarianism' and its industrial espionage invited by FDR in the '30s

[Anonymous No.20318845]

>>20315348
You can’t even drive!

[Anonymous No.20318888]

the "populist right" completely failed at accomplishing anything for the past several years, until randomly Elon Musk and possibly the Supreme Court decided to step in and throw some crumbs when they didn't even need to
yeah I'm thinkin elite theory is correct

[Anonymous No.20318893]

>>20317117
>There was a great unrest due to forced racial integration after civil rights was passed and yet it didn't reverse the course
The difference is black people had little to lose and everything to gain in the fight for rights, while as you said yourself, whites who disagreed could just move/go to private schools, and they did. I fail to see where the elites factor in.
The civil rights movement lasted for 14 years, and the counterprotests/riots/mob/lynching happened all thought those 14 years. As far as whites (even white southerners), the majority did not care strongly one way or the other about the civil rights question.
The real Populist Delusion is thinking popular means majority. If 51% of the population was strongly in favor of segregation, then the civil rights movement goes nowhere.

[Anonymous No.20318906]

>>20318888
Maybe but why do retards get in power in the first place? Surely what's the point of running a country if all you're gonna do is run it into the ground? These people have no self-awareness

[Anonymous No.20318910]

>>20318888
the populist right led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade

[Anonymous No.20318923]

>>20318906
>>20318910
They lost because they weren’t extreme enough.
Reformists are limp-dicked, people want RADICAL change NOW

[Anonymous No.20318933]

>>20318893
I almost guarantee 51% of white Americans were for segregation

[Anonymous No.20319002]

>>20318933
white americans aren't the only ones that can vote

[Anonymous No.20319008]

>>20318673
>Yeah, sure, institutions of socialization play a role in what people think. But there are many such institutions (not just "the media," but education, religion, the family, friend circles, etc)
Are those things progressive? Do any major universities disagree with each other on a fundamental level? Medias? The very system we live in is progressive. Religion aa you know it does not matter that much anymore, then again an ideology is just an atheistic religion.

[Anonymous No.20319028]

>>20318923
Yeah people just gotta vote me in there. Ill make sure segregation makes a comeback

[Anonymous No.20319040]

>>20318782
>Needing elite backing doesn't mean that it's sufficient or that backing of the people is not needed.
The problem is that most people don't get their ideas through considerations or thinking. They are taught them by others. Believing in the regime's political formula will automatically grant you the possibility of power as the political formula usually rewards those who reinforce it. They are also always lead by a handful of distinct leaders whose will being done is ultimately theirs alone. Then there's the example of how when people who vote for republicans or something into office their representatives end up having their hands tied as no one who's actually working with them supports them.

[Anonymous No.20319066]

>>20318893
Those "Black people" would not have gotten the attention or support they got without elite backing. Certain media outlets today even applaud themselves for the pivotal role they played in the civil rights movement. But honestly has anyone here read the book? Not even OP has.

[Anonymous No.20319087]

>>20318893
>The difference is black people had little to lose and everything to gain in the fight for rights
That's a logical blunder. Having "little to lose" does not mean it's sufficient to affect social change. It doesn't even take into account what they could theoretically lose, it's just drivel.

[Anonymous No.20319094]

>>20319008
>Are those things progressive?
The economically essential ones are; the media and higher education are overwhelmingly progressive. Unfortunately it appears Catholicism is going towards that direction, and the family is inherited.

But people aren't drones that accept what they see and read without question. You are correct that "The very system we live in is progressive" in the above mentioned way, but many of the values that progressives see as antiquated and backward do not die easily, hence the populist reaction culminating (so far) in the election of Donald Trump. This is what leftists to this day fail to see. Appeals to notions such as the values of hard labor, loyalty, decorum, honor, morality, and tradition still find a very receptive (and increasingly ostracized by the left) audience. Religion is not in a good shape, but not dead, especially among the lower classes. In-group preference is not going anywhere anytime soon. These values that progressives have no use for are what to this day consistently pit more working class folk (now even blacks and hispanics) against the Democratic party. The busing movement was one of the prototypical examples of this, and it continues to this day, but in that day it was Irish and some middle-class Jews.

In my opinion, you're also absolutely right to compare ideology with religion, but that's a question for another topic.

[Anonymous No.20319145]

>>20319094
What you're really saying is that poor people are stupid. Just come out with it.

[Anonymous No.20319148]

>>20319145
Are you implying that holding those values is evidence of stupidity? I don't think so, but maybe your accusation is evidence that you do.

[Anonymous No.20319226]

>>20318910
Roe v Wade being overturned will only lead to more black people since it's overwhelmingly blacks getting abortions, I don't understand why so many dissidents cheer this on

[Anonymous No.20319247]

>>20319226
Or will it lead to them being more cautious because now there are real consequences for their actions and no more get out of jail free card

[Anonymous No.20319248]

>>20319226
Many will take it as a win that women cannot indiscriminately murder their unborn children. The long game is not automatically bad either way. More poor blacks is not necessarily all bad.

[Anonymous No.20319250]

>>20319247
>>20319248

[Anonymous No.20319302]

>>20315924
People are reading Ellul.

[Anonymous No.20319815]

>>20318822
Not unnoticed

[Anonymous No.20320554]

>>20315003
it's a bit scattered, awfully scattered

[Anonymous No.20320728]

>>20315231
so, marxism-leninism?

[Anonymous No.20320804]

>>20318822
Saying that true power for change lies with powerful people and not the masses is not the same as discouraging populist movements.
>>20319815
He is half Welsh half Persian and more nationalist than most white Brits

[Anonymous No.20321270]

Can someone link the article that he published before the book? I forget who it was with but it was basically the essay that he expanded into the book.

[Anonymous No.20322799]

>>20315231
>what 0 marxism does to a mf

[Anonymous No.20323183]

>>20315344
Hello Mr Dunning Kruger

[Anonymous No.20323201]

>>20315012
>>>/lgbt/

[Anonymous No.20323218]

>>20316911
The Civil Rights movement, he says. Lol. Totally an organic movement, he thinks. Lmao.

[Anonymous No.20323742]

>>20323218
sorry, remind me again how it was the (((elites))) that caused it.

[Anonymous No.20323749]

>>20320728
Unironicly yes, which is why out of all extreme left wing movements they were one of the most sucessful

[Anonymous No.20323761]

>>20323742
Not all elites are jewish anon, don't be anti-semetic, anyway certain WASPs became certain of their opinion during WW2 and spent the next few decades undermining their dixiecrats while playing nice in public

[Anonymous No.20323776]

>>20315403
Americans are retarded.

[Anonymous No.20323809]

>>20323761
I don't think that has much relevance. The early events of the Civil Rights Movement were pretty Southern black through and through.

[Anonymous No.20323886]

>>20315403
the fact that your thinking aligns with mainstream media narratives means you are just as delusional as they were.

[Anonymous No.20324959]

>>20315003
Fuck off AA you're not a scholar

[Anonymous No.20325050]

>>20317709

[Anonymous No.20325061]

>>20316911
Crm was elite backed lmao

[Anonymous No.20325216]

>>20324959
Fuck off Rei