On Pain

[Anonymous No.20134699]

Has anyone else ever read this or any of Ernst Jungers works? Read this and I'm currently reading through The Peace by him. Found out how incredibly difficult it is to find discussions on this guy or his works despite the fact he seems to have influence quite a lot of political and philosophical thinkers in the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.20134884]

>>20134699
Jünger-anon left long ago. Discussion died here when he left.
I am sorry, but you are too late.

[Anonymous No.20134911]

>>20134699
I'm reading his brother's essay on technology. Both he and Ernst have an unapologetically aristocratic-elitist perspective, and that's probably partially what led to their unpopularity. You can still find conversations about him occasionally on /lit/ though.

[Anonymous No.20134973]

>>20134884
Think he got banned.

[Anonymous No.20135170]

How am I going to relate to a guy who was injured 20 times in ww1 talking about pain.
Worst I had was torn ligaments and broken bones.

[Anonymous No.20135202]

What are you wondering about?
Jungeranon on Peace
>>/lit/thread/S17294026#p17297363

[Anonymous No.20135210]

I read Storm of Steel. That's all so far. Cool guy.

[Anonymous No.20135408]

>>20135202
Based.
>>>/lit/thread/S17294026#p17297363
This thinking stems from Evola's poor reading of Junger's later work, as well as poor judgement of the world situation.
One way of thinking about it is that technology and the world state ended any possibility for the strong politics that Schmitt spoke of, what was necessary for the rule of law over technology and neutralization in the twentieth century. He and Heidegger became pessimistic to a large degree, which is understandable given the situation.
The success of neutralization, and the grossraum, does not demand an end to politics however it suggests that it falls into the background. It is no longer possible without a shift in character and the world condition. Junger is looking further and deeper, into myth and forces, the only possibilities in post-historical time. This is not a resignation to weakness and liberalism, nor even an abandonment of political thinking. In some way Junger continues to deal with questions similar to those of Schmitt, only the perspective and line of sight changes, as in that of military repositioning. There is plenty of discussion of war and state, ancient rules of conduct and character, in his later writings.

[Anonymous No.20135524]

>>20135210

[Anonymous No.20135572]

>>20135408
I think Schmitt isn't wrong as it seems to be more of realpolitik rather than ideals made up from our specific space and time, they are natural. Along with the belief that I don't agree with the more cosmopolitan view of the whole world coming together, but rather the same game continuing to be played, just on a larger scale, the boundaries simply shifting one up. From city states warring with rival city states, to nation states warring with rival nation states, to where we are now with the fault lines being drawn on civilizational lines. The game is still the same as it has always been, just bigger. I'm sure centuries from now, mankind will be warring against each other on an interplanetary scale.

Wrap that all up with the prettiest bow that is the death of god, and spiritualism in general, and you get the modern dilemma in a nutshell. I guess one has to keep in mind the context of their time. Imagine being Junger, growing up in an age of Napoleonic style warfare still fresh in everyone's minds, just to go to war and get attacked by a fucking tank. I'm sure technology was definitely on their minds for sure.

[Anonymous No.20135574]

>>20134699
I've been eyeing On Pain for quite a while. Big fan of Junger's ideas and his writing in Storm of Steel. Lent my copy to a friend after I finished it. Front end was a little monotonous in my opinion, but the second half is exciting and fascinating reading, as Junger's dance with death gains tempo and becomes ever more intricate and dangerous. The ending of that book it probably my favorite I've ever read. I'd love to get into some of his later philosophical and political work too, but I've only read Storm of Steel as of now,

[Anonymous No.20135993]

Don't respond to the other threads. That's antijungerfag who ruined all the old threads

[Anonymous No.20136064]

Anybody read Eumeswil and is it worth the $80 for a paperback?

[Anonymous No.20136073]

This was pretty good
https://youtu.be/E09OgltfcyI

[Anonymous No.20136429]

>>20136064
Great book. Shouldn't cost that much though Jungeranon had hardcovers for 20 bucks

[Anonymous No.20136530]

Junger is a great writer, what's lit's problem?

[Anonymous No.20136537]

[Anonymous No.20136597]

>>20135572
>Imagine being Junger, growing up in an age of Napoleonic style warfare
Google francoprussian war.

[Anonymous No.20136599]

>>20135524

[Anonymous No.20136647]

>>20136599
>>20135524
Interesting list

[Anonymous No.20136652]

>>20136064
>>20136429
https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/ernst-junger/the-forest-passage-eumeswil/paperback/product-58r7w7.html
I got this one for $10, was good enough quality and printing.

[Anonymous No.20136658]

>>20136652
Don't buy from him he's a nazi who spams these threads with slander about Junger.

[Anonymous No.20136677]

>>20136658
I mean I bought it like a year or so ago lol. Seems fairly priced and the words were all aligned and readable on the page. Could care less what his personal beliefs are desu, he's clearly not making more than a few dollars on the overhead. I appreciate Jungeranon but his books are more than twice the cost. Of course he's doing his own translations so what you're really paying for is the labor in that, but for Junger's more well known and already-translated stuff like Eumeswil or On Pain I don't see the problem in getting it from wherever it's cheapest.

[Anonymous No.20136687]

>>20136677
He's the guy that ruined all the threads on here and spreads lies about Junger, so supporting him is bad for Junger's legacy.

[Anonymous No.20136707]

>>20136687
I think I vaguely remember who you're talking about, I do remember there was always some retard in those threads that I had argued with a few times. That said, the only other place you can really find Eumeswil in print is Amazon and it's $30. I'm sure the people publishing that one are no closer to Junger's views than the retard on Lulu, but they're definitely making more at $30/book than he is at $9.

[Anonymous No.20136927]

There's a digital version. And no reason to give advertising to scumbags

[Anonymous No.20137149]

>>20136707
I think Telos Press (which is the main edition currently in print) knows their Jünger better than some 4channer

[Anonymous No.20137252]

>>20136707
>>20137149
And that faggot accuses Junger of being a liberal traitor. /pol/fags should stick to their books

[Anonymous No.20137264]

>>20134699
We get fairly regular Junger discussion here. Admittedly it's mostly Storm of Steel, and that's the only work of his I've read in full myself, but he is very well known around here. Hell, he's discussed more than any other WWI author around, like remarque.

[Anonymous No.20137378]

> observation that barely advances the scene
> amalgam of arbitrary allegories
> vague philosophical statement that always seems contradictory
> book ends after essentially the first act
> tries to justify why the rest of the book is missing
How can he be such a convincing hack? He seems capable at writing german in a precise fashion. In terms of storytelling though he has about as much to offer as a stack of vocabulary flashcards.

[Anonymous No.20138218]

>>20136599
>Ludwig Klages
What’s up with this guy? Lots of praise from 20th century German thinkers but haven’t seen him mentioned here before.

[Anonymous No.20138718]

>>20137264
He's not discussed at all. It's just muh translation

[Anonymous No.20138766]

>>20137378
It's not a movie

[Anonymous No.20139273]

What do I read after Storm of Steel?

[Anonymous No.20139297]

>>20139273
That depends, do you want interwar political theory, anti-Nazi parables, or post-war doomer fiction on how the chance to save the West has probably passed?

[Anonymous No.20139318]

>>20139297
>chance to save the West has probably passed?
Explain. I'm intrigued.

[Anonymous No.20139329]

>>20139297
Can someone explain to me his lack of support for nazism? I understand it didn't fit exactly with his own ideals but then why does he turn around to the doomed shit right after the allies win the war? Seems like a military minded person would be more about falling in line.

[Anonymous No.20139439]

>>20139329
A lot of his post-war books center around coping with the idea that the time of great change in his lifetime had passed by and that the next few generations would live in an ossified society under the current democratic order. Eumeswil and Aladdin's Problem are fictional parables of this. He was entering the last stage of his life at this point and they're very much the musings of an old man making peace with the idea that he will never see things be the way he'd like them to be. Jungeranon has a some of his nonfiction philosophical texts relating to this idea translated. I forget the link to his website but here is his substack with a relevant paper in particular-
https://juengertranslationproject.substack.com/p/ernst-junger-prognoses-for-the-21st
He believed that at some point into the 21st century the time of change and action, the time of the "Titans", would reemerge but obviously for him that would be well past his life.

>>20139329
Junger was very much an elitist more than anything, certainly more than a racialist. He had a number of gripes with the Nazis at the time. He often portrayed them as barbarian street thugs and he saw in them a nihilistic bent that he found distasteful. From my readings of his more philosophical works, it seems like he saw the interwar period as an opportunity for radical change where anything was possible. There were a lot of really weird niche movements all over Germany and a lot of different writers, Junger included, proposing all sorts of things that under the normal circumstances of a stable state government would never be entertained by any significant number of people. That the Nazis were the ones to ultimately win out was disappointing for him. They slowly rolled all of these movements into one, killed or threw out most of the people who had had founded and led these movements as true-believers, and amalgamated them into a single big-tent. He personally disliked Hitler and his inner circle, hated the brutality of their domestic political scheming, and looking back on them disliked that they had led Germany to ruin.

[Anonymous No.20139567]

>>20139439
Interesting, thank you anon

[Anonymous No.20139606]

>>20139329

[Anonymous No.20139623]

Do any of you Junger bros know why he converted to Catholicism? I read a few interviews here and there but nothing satisfactory.

[Anonymous No.20139678]

>>20139439
Nice effortposting.

[Anonymous No.20139729]

>>20139606
Holy based.

[Anonymous No.20139783]

>>20139297
there's also the most interesting work on drugs if you're interested in them beyond just "dude weed lmao"

[Anonymous No.20139990]

https://youtu.be/9LE6uDdPuUs

[Anonymous No.20139996]

>>20139990
kek didnt even notice it was his birthday

[Anonymous No.20140030]

>>20139606
schizo babble

[Anonymous No.20140041]

My indian father was a committed Marxist growing up but had all of Jungers books

[Anonymous No.20140373]

>>20139606
The good times.
>>20140030
Still seething.

[Anonymous No.20140491]

>>20138218
He’s pretty obscure in the English speaking world and most of his major works haven’t been translated. To give you a really quick run down, he breaks human beings into two components called soul and spirit. Spirit is the rational, intellectual, linguistic part of our psyche. Spirit is the opposite, it consists mostly of images and the intense, wordless experiences and emotions that arise from them. To oversimplify to the point of being crass, he then proceeds to argue that soul good, spirit bad. If you like Ted K, Elul, or other critiques of technology and modern society you’ll probably enjoy Klages. A very beautiful English translation of his magnum opus, Of Cosmogonic Eros, can be purchased through a small independent occult publisher called Theion Publishing. Pricey though.

[Anonymous No.20140533]

>>20140491
Forgot to mention I think there is a collection of some of his shorter work available on Amazon for probably half or even a third of what you’ll be able to buy Of Cosmogonic Eros for

[Anonymous No.20140613]

>>20134699
I'm reading "Battle as an Inner Experience" by Jünger atm. Can highly recommend it. Though I'm reading it in German, so idk if the translation is any good.
>>20136064
Personally, I didn't care much about it. His essays are better in my opinion.
>>20139273
Read some of his essays. They are clearer on his actual views than Storms of Steel

[Anonymous No.20140751]

>>20139606
qrd for a retard?

[Anonymous No.20141704]

>>20140751
Based post on Junger's philosophy of war which set off antijungerfag

[Anonymous No.20141719]

[Anonymous No.20141728]

>>20140613
What is different from Storm of Steel?

[Anonymous No.20141737]

Junger on AI

"It is well known that in chess a number of moves can be predicted - it can be said with certainty that this one is more correct than the other, and often even that another is the best. The opening manuals are based on this fact.

Of course, the prediction is only possible for a limited number of moves, after which the game leads into the unpredictable, even if one wants to take the word arithmetically. The chess player with a good theory is like a swimmer who has a firm bottom in the sea for a few steps, but then has to entrust himself to the depth and his powers.

A similar situation applies to the assessment of an abandoned lot. Here too, the thicket can be lightened to a certain distance. However, it can happen that just what is called the ingenious move is overlooked. After all, one may assume that some good brains, who deal with a position, bring out the best.

The perfect player in the scientific sense would have to come up with the best move in each case. This would require calculations that go beyond the human power of combination. It is even questionable whether one of the large calculating machines of our or even a future technical equipment would be sufficient for this. But we want to assume that there would be apparatuses, chess machines, which determined the strongest move in each case. What would be the consequence?

First of all, whether one or both partners were equipped with such computers, the game would lose its character; it would become a technical act. At the same time, the game would lose its appeal, the peculiarity of the encounter of two intelligences, two temperaments and characters on a defined plan. What would be lost is what makes the game a tournament - the bold attack, the tough defence, the cunning concealment, the surprising leap, and even the victory no longer deserved the name.

Instead, there would be a game that was thought out and covered in all directions. The style of the opening would run through the whole game. There would be neither victory nor defeat, but a perfect [412] game would lead to a draw. If the strongest move was really calculated, only one, the optimal, game could be played in the same opening. It would repeat itself in its details like a movie.

It is obvious that this cannot be the purpose of the game. Play and art exclude the use of technical aids. But not science. Where the scientific methodology with its technique penetrates the playing field, the enjoyment, the freedom of the game is destroyed. The compulsion spreads. This is not only the difference between the Greek Olympics and ours, but also the desertification of large areas, where what was once a game, a competition or even a fight is now being brought closer to perfection and destroyed by technology."

[Anonymous No.20141777]

One of the best discussions on /lit/
Jünger and his philosophy of the anarch
>>/lit/thread/S15323312
>>/lit/thread/S15071624

To attempt to answer the original question first, one might say that the anarch is opposed to society for power. He is not opposed to power in itself, but rather the form it has taken on. This is effectively the position a good adviser must take on to effect both power and his loyalty to the monarch.
Similarly, the monarch does place his own concerns foremost: 'he who wears the crown does not rest lightly.' The monarchist tends to focus on the monarch, the worldly power represented within the monarchy - order and law. The monarch must understand sovereignty, that is, power which will reign even in his absence.
The anarch is thus the final dominion of power in a society that has desecrated its form. The impossibility of Antigone to even pursue burial rites. Prometheus can warn Zeus what is to come, but a mortal may not take the same path.

The anarchist, in contrast, is opposed to power in itself. This takes on an absurdity once one realises that the modern form is already opposed to state power. Tilting at windmills. Whereas the anarch understands that he must wait and seize power when it appears, or even preserve power as form even if it dies with him. Cato.

[Anonymous No.20141918]

What's wrong with the Eumeswil translation?

[Anonymous No.20142093]

Anyone read this?

[Anonymous No.20142109]

>>20134911
>brother's essay on technology
His brother was a writer?

[Anonymous No.20142115]

Yeah I read On Pain not long ago. I hated it to be honest. A lot of what he spoke about seemed completely worthless and outdated and just wrong. Also, I really hate the way he writes, it's so dense at times it is really hard to understand. It's repetitive too. And I just fucking hated one of the main premises, which is that an individual should compare himself to a cog in a machine and stop being an individual at all.

[Anonymous No.20142144]

>>20142115
>completely worthless and outdated
What was worthless and outdated?

[Anonymous No.20142258]

>>20141719
Max Ernst Jünger

[Anonymous No.20142307]

>>20142093
yes

[Anonymous No.20142391]

>>20142307
Any good?

[Anonymous No.20142392]

>>20141728
Storm of Steel is more like a diary. He describes his immediate experiences. Whereas his essays are his proper thoughts about everything after he had some time to think about them.

[Anonymous No.20142408]

>>20142144
He spoke about technology a lot later in the book, as I remember it, photography especially. I think it was all to do with his idea of sublimating the individual, or something. I didn't write an essay on it so my thoughts are jumbled, but I remember thinking specifically it felt outdated. As for the worthless part, that for me was anything on his thoughts to do with man being subservient to technology as a greater goal.

[Anonymous No.20142494]

>>20142391
The war parts are interesting, and they add to Storm of Steel or Copse 125. Particularly the pioneer's description of mine warfare (the mines you dig, not the ones that explode). The ending is great.
The stories within the story weren't as compelling, but maybe that was just my impression because I read it after his later works that are more polished.

[Anonymous No.20142503]

>>20134699
i'm only familiar with this through byung-chul han's book the palliative society

[Anonymous No.20143072]

Can someone give me some good historical fiction from German combatant perspective during the second world War that is less political and more military historical fiction?

[Anonymous No.20143266]

>>20142503
He discusses Junger?

[Anonymous No.20143327]

>>20135170
How are you going to relate to Homer who lived in a completely different time than you and probably had lots of gay sex? Is that a reason not to read the Iliad?

[Anonymous No.20143654]

>anti-Jünger fagg is now a thing
Why is there always a anti-X obsessed anon who does nothing but ruin what little discussion exists on /lit/

[Anonymous No.20143701]

what do you guys think of the Forest Passage?

[Anonymous No.20143921]

>>20143654
Anti-jungerfag has been here for years. He's a known figure who used to make threads about him and control the narrative, then he went schizo against junger-anon because of twitter beef or something. This thread is pretty good compared to last year

[Anonymous No.20143985]

>>20134884
>some blogger fag stopped shilling his essays here and his discord tranny groupies left with him
oh no

[Anonymous No.20144035]

>>20143985
>same time as other thread gets bumped
>still seething because someone is interested enough to write about junger
Nice job retard.

[Anonymous No.20144048]

>>20144035
..what

[Anonymous No.20144061]

What's your favorite cover?

[Anonymous No.20144610]

>>20144061
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaX6Ap2dtzM

[Anonymous No.20144643]

>>20144610
embarrassing

[Anonymous No.20144942]

>>20143701
Probably his best.

[Anonymous No.20144977]

>>20136530
As soon as he attracted the Twitter and video essay homosexual hipster crowd it was all over. Wait for him to become obscure again if you want to talk about him without attracting a ton of faggots trying to cultivate a Twitter philosopher fursona.

[Anonymous No.20145049]

>>20137378
kino book.

[Anonymous No.20145262]

>>20143266
yeah

[Anonymous No.20145860]

>>20145262
What does he say?

[Anonymous No.20147138]

Basado

[Anonymous No.20147513]

>>20143985
what the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.20148676]

>>20147513
He's mad that jungeranon posted about junger.

[Anonymous No.20148786]

>>20147513
see all the replies by someone who thinks theres a conspiracy against this random author? that guy either used to post his blog here or is one of the other fags from the blogger guy's threads

that is the whole story. exciting i know.

[Anonymous No.20148967]

desu I liked best his LSD journal, which was very good and tied to my experiences and helped me prepare and navigate through them.

Eumeswil is good but probably too romantic for my tastes. Storm of Steel is a must a historical work and as a lived experience of someone in WWI just as much as for All quiet on the Western Front. The Worker, I haven't read it completely but looked to me as a jumbled confused mess of Junger trying to be a kind of "anti-Marxist" Bolshevik, probably prefigured post-Marxism but is again too romantic and ideological.

[Anonymous No.20149327]

>>20148786
Hilarious that you've dedicated your life to sperging about anon

[Anonymous No.20150414]

>>20148786
Who is Jungeranon, is it that guy Der Schattige Wald?

[Anonymous No.20150432]

I remember when Junger threads used to be good - now it's filled with trash from people wanting to hate on Junger and, subsequently, die-hard Junger bros who take the bait

[Anonymous No.20150551]

>>20150432
It was one guy who did most of the spamming.

[Anonymous No.20150553]

>>20150414
i have no idea to be honest, i just know from the guy who keeps posting about it. i never read the blog, i just see every thread about this guy turn into people talking about the great antiantiantijunger war of 2014.

[Anonymous No.20150566]

>>20150551
sure, at some point one guy was taking a lot of space but there were some other people easily recognisable in junger threads who were not him

[Anonymous No.20150600]

>>20150553
You don't think it's odd that there was good discussion and then suddenly every thread was filled with sperging, multiple side threads and samefagging? The guy even derailed Jungeranon's other threads

[Anonymous No.20150614]

>>20150600
if you want a serious reply, then no, 4chan is sensitive to shills and repetitively posted threads are guaranteed to attract trolls, and even if some of the trolls were persistent it is weird to think its a conspiracy and weirder to care

if it is a conspiracy who even cares? go look at /sffg/ it's full of people calling eachother schizos and deep cover operatives, it's probably 1/4 true, but even that doesn't matter because it just means there was some schizo for a while. who cares?

[Anonymous No.20150637]

>>20150614
There might be 10 regular posters in Junger threads. And sffg has over 60. It was proven to be one guy which is you

[Anonymous No.20150754]

>20150614
Doesn't even make sense. The guy shilling his book only posted about the 1929 translation being so much better and went nuts if someone actually talked about Junger or said anything bad about the translation. Jungeranon wasn't shilling anything, he posted about Junger's philosophy and answered anons questions.
It wasn't a "schizo for a while" it's been years and it was bad enough that it drove people away from the board. The board is trash and Junger threads were about the last good thing we had so it only makes sense that anons would get pissed about it.

[Anonymous No.20151755]