This man ruined my life

[Anonymous No.19735266]

>be 15 on /pol/
>get memed into le Evola but dont actually read because pseud
>turn 18
>enlist into military because metaphysics of war get you closer to divinity or something
>realize I'm autistic and become miserable
>decide to actually read Evola for once because IDK what I'm doing wrong
>WTF Evola is actually insane
>hol up I joined the 3rd lowest, and most profane, peasant army
>mfw I, a grow man, ruined my life because I literally believed in magic

[Anonymous No.19735382]

>>19735266
>start with the Greeks
>ancient Greek writers have low regard for craftsmen and business (banausia)
>devote life to studying politics and philosophy
>I am now a wagie making 1/3 of what my computer science friends make
>at least I’m not banausic

[Anonymous No.19735389]

>>19735266
What cunt?

[Anonymous No.19735593]

>>19735266
>>mfw I, a grow man, ruined my life because I literally believed in magic
this is more common than you think, i a way we all succumb to the lowest form of magical thinking once or twice in our life
just get back on track, the good thing is that you now know that aspect of the human mind so it will be hard to get fooled again, you just have to walk the middle path and not fall for the ultra materialist aspect of the mind either

[Anonymous No.19735629]

>>19735266
>enlist into military because metaphysics of war get you closer to divinity or something
Anyone who joins a military thinking they will reach some sort of enlightenment are retarded. At best you'll come back with a hatred for unfettered bureaucracy, and at worst you'll come back broken with an understanding of violence you wish you hadn't.

[Anonymous No.19735671]

>Be me
>18 and severely depressed. Also an /x/ user
>Read about Law of Attraction and Chaos Magic for the first time
>Spend every waking moment obsessing over it, making myself think only "positive" things
>I am hearing my "spirit guides" telling me which paths to take
>Thinking I'm having a spiritual awakening
>My spirit guides gradually turn on me, I become increasingly paranoid
>End up in the hospital

Turned out I was schizophrenic the whole time. True story. 4 years down the drain of obsessing over every detail of my thoughts and taking the guidance of random voices.

[Anonymous No.19735704]

>>19735382
yeah only the bourgeois value commerce, this is why their society is so shit

[Anonymous No.19735708]

>>19735671
You did it wrong. Opened yourself to negative entities. Really, the “right” way to mess with o*cult stuff is with an experienced person. Almost impossible to hack on your own. It’s dangerous. If you like mysticism than practice religion, particularly it’s “pray with your door shut” aspects. It’s safer because you work with White entities.
>>19735266
Joining the army is a perfectly valid job for someone in late teens and early 20s. I don’t see the problem unless you gave up being some MIT genius.

[Anonymous No.19735748]

How did he ruin your life when you didn't even read him?

[Anonymous No.19735769]

>>19735671
>the voices i heard turned out to be schizophrenia and not magical entities
Many such cases

[Anonymous No.19735775]

>>19735629
>At best you'll come back with a hatred for unfettered bureaucracy
This. My grandpa was an officer and he forbid my father and heavily disencouraged me from joining the military

[Anonymous No.19735792]

>>19735266
kek I bought into this shit too

[Anonymous No.19735846]

>>19735792
is it all a meme?

[Anonymous No.19735865]

>>19735704
Well ancient Greece was a massive slave society and the reason people like Plato, Aristotle, etc could devote their lives to study was because they inherited massive estates. Thucydides had his mine in Thrace, etc. This would be like the modern equivalent of how families with massive financial estates can send their kids to Ivies. Ancient Greece was not less concerned with wealth than we are, it’s just that wealth was more hereditary than it is even now. Read Arnheim if you’re interested

[Anonymous No.19735968]

>>19735846
It’s a meme and a cope. Only thing that’s real is liquidizing nigger children’s brains from 500 yards away from atop your storage container bunker, set up in such a way to be both barricade and birds nest, blocking highway paths from the projects and hold, anyway, you’re atomizing these nigger children using modified Barrett m82s, all the while their parents (but more often lone nigger mothers) rush your bastion in vain, falling under hail of 7.62 steel jacket ammo. That’s what’s real. That’s what’s happening.

White people can worry about magic and philosophy when all niggers, spics, chinks and kikes are dead if you ask me quite frankly.

[Anonymous No.19736027]

>>19735593
Reminds me of young Quentin Scooby

[Anonymous No.19736063]

>>19735968
This whole thread is glowing but you are the brightest.

[Anonymous No.19736145]

>>19735629
If you want to join up, and have brain cells, go to college and do an ROTC program. It's peacetime and you'll just be cleaning if you enlist. Bureaucracy is more tolerable if you're not on the bottom on the pole.

[Anonymous No.19736150]

>>19735266
>mfw I, a grow man, ruined my life because I literally believed in magic
You didnt believe in magic. You were psyop'd by military recruiters on /pol/.

[Anonymous No.19736207]

>>19735266
my sides

[Anonymous No.19736221]

>>19735671
>My spirit guides gradually turn on me, I become increasingly paranoid
lost

[Anonymous No.19736239]

>>19736063
Dammit caught again

[Anonymous No.19736307]

>>19735968
*niglets
Use the proper nomenclature please this is a board of literature.

[Anonymous No.19736335]

>this book I didn't read caused me to make a big life decision
The book didn't ruin your life. Being a filthy secondary ruined your life. Just go AWOL and get caught up on your reading while hiding in a cave. When you're done turn yourself in, do your time, and while you're trapped in prison write your book, then publish when you get out.

[Anonymous No.19736339]

>>19735266
you "ruined" your own life, it was your own retardation

[Anonymous No.19736375]

>>19736145
I've already done my time and the bureaucracy is literally an officer issue. It's not more tolerable at all until you hit Major. The enlisted barely have to deal with the bullshit that goes on behind the scenes.

[Anonymous No.19736376]

>>19735968

[Anonymous No.19736381]

>>19735266
>>be 15 on /pol/
whats wrong with you people.
I never came to this site till I was 18, almsot 19.

[Anonymous No.19736414]

>>19736375
Enlisted have all the fun.

[Anonymous No.19736528]

>>19736414
Exactly. Its just doing dumb shit and hanging out

[Anonymous No.19737529]

>>19735748
This. I don't get it

[Anonymous No.19737555]

>dont actually read his books but base your decisions on secondary Impressions about said author.
Not bad OP. Peak /lit/ behavior and I mean that in the worst way possible.

[Anonymous No.19737570]

>>19735266
>/pol/tard second hand accounts of Evola ruined my life
FTFY
If you weren't a pseud and actually read Evola, you would understand that industrialisation of warfare disallows any satisfactory connection with the traditional warrior spirit.

[Anonymous No.19738442]

>>19735865
>Read Arnheim if you’re interested
do you mean Rudolf Arnheim?

[Anonymous No.19738470]

>>19735266
Evola did nothing to you, you did it to yourself. Evola specifically says not to join an army in this age you absolute retard, which you would have known if you'd read him. But then you did read him and you were filtered hard so you assume he is insane. You never believed in magic, you were coping. You should just end yourself, it will only get worse for you.

Also this thread is full of glowies, and if glowies hate Evola, he's good in my book.

[Anonymous No.19738479]

>>19735968
By not reading Evola, you gain the actual magical power to see right through fed posts like this one.

[Anonymous No.19738487]

>>19736381
wow congratulations retard. you have even less of an excuse.

[Anonymous No.19738546]

>>19738470

[Anonymous No.19738594]

>>19738470

[Anonymous No.19738694]

>>19735382
>>ancient Greek writers have low regard for craftsmen and business (banausia)
you forgot the part where they were all rich aristocrats LMAO

[Anonymous No.19738918]

>>19735266
>be 21 misanthropic, mentally ill NEET with no goal in life but with schizo magical thinking tendencies
>discover /lit/
>start reading religious texts, delve deeper and deeper into this stuff
>drop out of college because I don't see any point in pursuing worldly success anymore
>become even more isolated
>fast forward two years, I have a newfound steadfastness, with the trade off that I feel I have gone past a point of no return
>wouldn't have it any other way
I oscillate between periods of doubt and anguish and periods of genuine hope. I'm a pure world denier but that's fine.

[Anonymous No.19739048]

>>19738918
>I'm a pure world denier but that's fine.
that's called slave morality

[Anonymous No.19739059]

>>19739048
Not really. It's more ascetic.

[Anonymous No.19739077]

>>19739059
uh, that's a pretty narrow interpretation. the essence of slave morality is basically just ressentiment applied, and asceticism very much is ressentiment

[Anonymous No.19739093]

>>19739077
>and asceticism very much is ressentiment
Not inherently. You might very well practice acetism while not hating the alternatives.

[Anonymous No.19739232]

hijacking the thread
where do I start with evola? revolt against the modern world or ride the tiger?

[Anonymous No.19739261]

>>19735629
I don't think anyone can work within the modern world for longer than 4 years without developing some psychotic hatred for bureaucracy.

[Anonymous No.19739285]

>>19739232
It doesn't matter. One of the two.

[Anonymous No.19739291]

>>19739048
>>19739077
I don't give even the slightest hint of a fuck about Nietzsche's system, so I don't care.
>but that's ressentiment
Yes. And?

[Anonymous No.19739306]

>>19739291
>Yes. And?
that means you're just coping instead of solving the problems which lead you to that state

[Anonymous No.19739333]

>>19739306
Imagine focusing on a philosophy that gives importance, among all things, to the phenomenology of cope. I guess your thought doesn't go too far.

[Anonymous No.19739336]

>>19739306
For you. Why should I care about what you believe?
Everything is "cope", this is a meaningless criticism. I choose to "deny life" and no amount of pull yourself up by your bootstraps nietzschean rhetoric will have me become a man of the world.

[Anonymous No.19739337]

>>19739059
>baby's first reactionary philosophy

[Anonymous No.19739542]

>>19735266
People fucking baffle me

[Anonymous No.19739818]

>>19735671
I feel sorry for you but holy fuck did you make me kek

[Anonymous No.19739879]

>>19735266
you're a retard. Evola is supposed to be an exit-tier thinker. you can't read him without being familiar with the Western canon and religion.

[Anonymous No.19739893]

>>19739879
The average poster of this board hasn't even read Homer.

[Anonymous No.19739998]

>>19738470

[Anonymous No.19740793]

>>19735266
>>be 15 on /pol/
That was your first mistake

[Anonymous No.19740833]

>>19735266
>metaphysics of war
Evola explicitly states multiple times in Revolt and other works that war has lost all Traditional value, and that only in some very unique circumstances will it lead to a transcendent experience. I don't even think your post is a true story btw, it is far more likely you're some faggot leftist.

READ EVOLA

Especially if you are interested in the occult and right wing. Study his books on the subject and you will have a solid foundation from which you can explore other things without becoming a schizo like so many others. His book on Hermeticism and ItM are god-tier esoteric works, at least for a modern author.

[Anonymous No.19740840]

>>19735865
>Ancient Greece was not less concerned with wealth than we are,
Yes they were, especially earlier on. Just because your entire historical perspective is based around materialism doesn't mean other ancient civs were like that.

[Anonymous No.19740852]

>>19738470
>this thread is full of glowies
Actual legit threads on Evola and often Guenon are deleted by tranny jannies, the jew fears Traditionalism.

[Anonymous No.19740867]

>>19738470
Based

[Anonymous No.19740999]

>>19740833
>pic
I am curious, did Guenon ever comment on these works? I Just wonder what his views on them might of been, since he was was not fond of Evola's work on Hermeticism

[Anonymous No.19741082]

>>19740999
>since he was was not fond of Evola's work on Hermeticism
I'm not sure if you are aware, but he actually wrote a review on it which was mostly positive. The thing he disagreed with was Evola's use of the term "magic," since Evola gave it a heroic/transcendent meaning (as it may have had in medieval times, della Riviera's "Magical World of the Heroes" being one such example), this is the meaning it has in the ItM trilogy as well. He also disagreed that Hermeticism was strictly a Royal Art as Evola claimed, and said that it was originally a Sacerdotal Art (given that Hermes-Thoth corresponds to the Priestly and not Royal caste). Evola however maintained that it was indeed a Royal Art, since the final stage is signified by the royal colour of red and not the priestly white, which precedes the red in the work. He was definitely in agreement with Evola's point of view that Hermeticism and Alchemy were originally purely spiritual, and any material interpretations constitute deviations.

If you are a fan of Guenon and interested Hermeticism, I would definitely recommend this work, since it sets forth Hermeticism from the Traditional or authentic point of view. Guenon reviewed the contents of the work positively, apart from the usual disagreements over definitions. Whether or not you choose to practice is of course another thing entirely.

As for ItM, Guenon was aware of the Gruppo di Ur and was in correspondence with 2 other members besides Evola: Reghini and di Giorgio, the latter being good friends with Guenon. However he expressed reservations about the group, presumably due to the concept of self-initiation, or maybe it was the work they were attempting in their "chain," I'm not sure.

[Anonymous No.19741085]

>>19740999
Also, I think Guenon's review of the HT can be found in Traditional Forms and Cosmic Cycles, if not it is easily found online.

[Anonymous No.19741131]

>>19741082
Good post

[Anonymous No.19741214]

>>19741082
>>19741085
Thanks for the reply anon

[Anonymous No.19741216]

>>19735266
Can someone help me decide if there's any point to reading Evola and Guenon and such? My impression of capital-R "Reactionaries" in general is that they're usually right in diagnosing the problems and contradictions of leftism, but their attempts to justify the opposite of leftism as a positive good are basically just rank supervillainy. Like they're eggheads who think in abstractions, and are jealous of the left's ability to theorize an ideal society based on Reason, so they refuse to admit that you can't really do this from the right.

But I haven't actually read these books, so will they change my impressions at all?

[Anonymous No.19741327]

>>19735671
Got me bro

[Anonymous No.19741335]

>>19741216
To take Evola's ideas seriously, you would probably already have to believe in metaphysical reality. This is much more true for Guenon, since his works are totally outside of politics and only occasionally does he delve into issues of present-day civilisation to critique them.

Although from a "pragmatic" perspective, one could see the value in the Traditionalists' works, even if one disregards spirituality. The first thing Evola mentions in Revolt, which is also a core theme of Guenon, is how virtually all revolutions, at least in recent times, are completely misguided and not fit to solve any problems, since they only delve further into materialism, instead of seeing beyond it. This is a far more "revolutionary" concept than squabbling over more government handouts.

As far as "supervillainy," that sounds like your own modern prejudice. The people running the world right now are supervillains and much more devoid of good than Evola or Guenon. However leftist sheep appear to have no problem with the former group, and cheer them on as they censor people and force people to take dangerous vaccines to maintain their livelihood. I would say ignore their works and stick to leftist materialist delusions which are no threat to the establishment if you think Traditionalism is just an excuse for others wanting to "oppress" people, which is your social conditioning.

[Anonymous No.19741359]

>>19741216
If you want a critique of the "left" ideas from the "right" read Nietzsche. His works have actually little to do with conventional politics but his criticism of egalitarianism is rapid. Traditionalist criticism of the left (or of anything else really) essentially comes down to "we're right because we are"

[Anonymous No.19741456]

>>19735671
>My spirit guides gradually turn on me
outplayed

[Anonymous No.19741626]

>>19741335
I appreciate the information and you've made me more likely to check out the books. As for your last paragraph, I think you have the wrong idea. I have close to zero respect for the current regime and do support "right wing authoritarianism" in some form. I'm probably half of the way to believing in God and intend to keep working on it.

But I'm a product of western civilization. The desire for freedom, as well as sympathy for the poor and suffering, are baked into the West's DNA. Maybe literally. Over a millenium before any "leftist" was born, Herodotus tells us how it was the freedom of Athens and Sparta that gave them the spirit to defeat an army of Persian slaves. Christianity is full of the seeds of leftism, but the West couldn't exist without it. If you point to some village in India where hereditary slaves accept being spat on for thousands of years, and tell me that's good because it's more Traditional, I want to vomit.

But yes, if you extend "freedom" and "mercy" indefinitely they destroy everything including themselves. Maybe we do need a "Traditionalist" counter-revolution just to reset 5000 years and build something to gradually destroy again with leftism. Get another period of good years along the way.

[Anonymous No.19741641]

>>19735704
>muh bourgeois
>everything I don't like is bourgeois
Break your bathroom mirror and swallow the biggest shard.

[Anonymous No.19741678]

>>19735266
>>19735266
>hol up I joined the 3rd lowest, and most profane, peasant army
Is this about army, navy, air force? How are they ranked, best to worst? How is that order justified?

[Anonymous No.19741699]

>>19735266
Evola has ruined my ability to be a normal person. The things ideas I have been exposed to by reading him and Guenon as well as others has literally made it impossible for me to see the world the same way again, even if I force myself to not believe anything they're saying. Even if Traditionalists just made all this shit up, they've created a perfectly intuitive way to structure reality according to at least my own experiences.
>inb4 buh buh buh but they can't prove anything they say with a math formula or observable test!
filtered

[Anonymous No.19741735]

>>19741678
I dont remeber exactly but he lists the different types of army according to whos will its beholden to for example peasants, merchants, or a king

[Anonymous No.19742125]

>>19741699
I think you have been filtered by life

[Anonymous No.19742178]

>>19735266
I'm sorry for you, but really your reading comprehension must be so poor for you to have interpreted his writing in such a way to think that what you were doing wasn't retarded. Hope things brighten up for you.

[Anonymous No.19742200]

>>19735266
none of these happened

[Anonymous No.19742347]

>>19742178
>reading comprehension poor
>t. Dude who missed the part about OP not reading
If you were trolling then that was high quality, doubt it though

[Anonymous No.19742363]

>>19738442
No M T W Arnheim Aristocracy in Greek Society
>>19740840
The earliest records of Greek culture show us their best were engaged in
>piracy
>trade
All ways of making money. It’s foundational epic is about a pirate raid that went on too long. Odysseus is praised for using his intellect to cultivate a wealthy estate in Ithaca, etc. No culture ever has valued poverty, especially not ancient cultures where to be good was to be rich.
>Just because your entire historical perspective is based around materialism
You know nothing about my historical perspective but you want to quip like you’re in a Marvel movie.

[Anonymous No.19742373]

>>19741699
I know exactly what you mean. Personally I delved further and further into the esoteric and have totally changed my life by re-evaluating things and acting more without fear of the results. I also think we should make ourselves the best we can be before trying to influence society, so let the globalists play their jewy games while we strengthen and purify ourselves spiritually.

[Anonymous No.19742400]

>>19742363
>All ways of making money.
You're just assuming that was the point because that's what present-day civilisation sees the most value in. You can trade and do "piracy" or even just obtain money for other nobler purposes apart from just being rich, money for a true aristocracy is just a means to an end. "Wealth" has more meaning to it than just having money too.

I'll say it again, you are judging past civilisations based off of the same values held by our current civilisation, it is a retarded and what Marxists do.

[Anonymous No.19742729]

>>19742400
Maybe I’m being loose with my language by equivocating money with wealth, especially since we’re talking about a society where wealth could be measured by other assets (land, slaves, agricultural products). But the practices of slavery, latifundia, trade, piracy, and even war were certainly done for material gain. Maybe not exclusively, sure. But in agricultural societies war is the surest means of increasing wealth as it meant acquiring land from your neighbors. Land was the limiting factor in a polis’s size and wealth. See Plato’s laws where the Athenian Stranger calculates the number of citizens that could belong to a certain space of land. Underlying those citizens (and supporting their lifestyles) were their families and their slaves. What exactly about this do you disagree with? Maybe you want to say they pursued wealth for the sake of those lifestyles (politics, arts, gymnastics, philosophy) but I don’t see how that’s any different from why people today pursue wealth.

[Anonymous No.19742803]

>>19735671
reminds me of my youthful indiscretions
>new years eve, 2015
>find life wanting, lonely neet
>have a revolver
>make a deal with myself, I will play russian roulette every day until I lose
>first day, it doesn't work
>the promise of it working the second day makes the next day so much more bearable
>second day, still doesn't work
>probability says I have around a week until this works
>first week passes and I'm alive
>feel lucky for the first time in my life
>keep playing, the burden of life lifts off of my shoulders as I play with it every night
>find a job I actually enjoy after 3 weeks of failing
>keep doing it, convinced on some level that the ritual is empowering me
>lose my virginity within 3 months, keep doing it, I'm beside myself, at this point my survival is in the 'being struck by lightning while bitten by a shark' levels of unlikely
>start to fear losing what I have
>make a deal with myself that I will continue until the year is up
>start having fits of mania in December, I feel like a literal god
>new years day 2016 I point my gun into the sky and cycle the cylinder
>after the 6th revolution, nothing, the bullet was a dud the entire time
had a full breakdown at that point and lost both my job and girlfriend and the involuntary committal on my record means i can't have guns anymore

[Anonymous No.19742853]

>>19742729
I don't think they (the aristocracy) valued money or wealth in the same way we do today. I'm sure some of them did especially later on as things degenerated, but they also valued other things of a more sacred nature over material wealth. Pythagoras sacrificed 80(?) bulls when he discovered the solution to one of his theories. These people consulted oracles on going to war. They valued family lineage and blood also as something transcendent, and had precise codes surrounding things like honour and duty. The remaining aristocracy are parodies of this and almost all of them I'm sure only care about having as much money and power over people as possible, along with their merchant peers. So I think some historians (particularly the Marxists, whose materialist methods have definitely seeped into other fields) are mistaken to always assume ancient warrior nobles only did things for more material gain. That was a motivation for sure, but the Celts and Vikings as well as many others believed they would become immortal while dying in battle. Things to them had a more sacred character which they lived by. Whether or not they were correct is a different issue.

[Anonymous No.19742898]

>>19742803
That's epic. How did u get a gf? This is advanced

[Anonymous No.19742918]

>>19742898
I just bee'd myself.

[Anonymous No.19743260]

>>19742853
That’s a good point. You should definitey read Aristocracy in Greek Society by Arnheim if you haven’t already, you’d get a lot out of it

[Anonymous No.19743278]

>>19743260
Thanks, I'll put it on my list.

[Anonymous No.19744054]

>>19742803
Holy shit that’s legendary. It this is plagiarized, please sauce

[Anonymous No.19744151]

>>19735671
I remember being obsessed with the occult and alchemy around the age of 18. I thought I had unlocked the keys to the universe and told my family that I was going to make some big discovery that would change the world forever. I lost my ability to sleep and reason after a couple of days, culminating in an episode where I took my car and drove down random streets at extremely high speeds. My mind was gone at this point, and I ended up crashing into a small ditch. After my crash, I got out of the car and sat down on some random person’s yard in order to look up at the stars. Still out of my mind, I walked into an apartment complex and knocked on doors. A chubby man in his early thirties answered and told me to fuck off, which I did. I tried another door and a black woman answered and told me to fuck off, but I was getting cold at this point and begged her to let me in. She eventually called the police on me. A cop came and told me to come with him. I came, but as I was walking down the stairs I turned around and punched him square in the face. He started yelling and eventually got me on the ground while I insulted him. Backup came and I was thrown in a police car and taken to a jail. I then proceeded to try to hang myself - completely naked, mind you - with a sock. They shipped me to a mental institution. One day I woke up and was back to normal, not remembering much of the preceding week. I was diagnosed with bipolar 1 and let go (where I was then taken back to jail).

[Anonymous No.19744219]

>>19744151
many such cases

[Anonymous No.19744224]

>>19738470

[Anonymous No.19744227]

>>19735266
>be 15 on /pol/
>turn 18
>I, a grow man
Sorry, but it's hard to take it seriously

[Anonymous No.19744253]

>>19735671
Oh hey I did similar things except I ended up with OCD-like rituals that took over my life

[Anonymous No.19744366]

>>19735629
You can legally shoot people in the head. What the fuck else do you want?

[Anonymous No.19744372]

>>19737570
Junger would disagree; so did Rolf Sterner.
Both Germans, coincidentally. Hmm.

[Anonymous No.19744385]

>>19741359
Christianity in “The Antichrist” attacks Christianity with intensity, but the same criticisms very often ring true for leftism. It’s all slave morality.

[Anonymous No.19744386]

>>19741359
>Traditionalist criticism of the left (or of anything else really) essentially comes down to "we're right because we are"
this is extremely retarded. The critiques come from mostly a metaphysical assumption, but their critiques of leftism are sharp and specific on their subversion of traditional and spiritual principles which has literally rotted the modern spirit in many ways physically and statistically. You clearly have never read any of the specifically anti-modernity books by Guenon and Evola. Even Seraphim Rose has good critiques of the nihilism zeitgeist of our times and its consequences

[Anonymous No.19744387]

>>19741699
Being a normal person is being shit.

[Anonymous No.19744396]

>>19735671
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIX_6TBeph0

[Anonymous No.19744397]

>>19741359
Nietzsche in “The Antichrist” attacks Christianity with intensity, but the same criticisms very often ring true for leftism. It’s all slave morality, and that particular text hammered it home for me.

[Anonymous No.19744403]

Traditionalist-bros, will the sense of disconnection and rootlessness ever end?

[Anonymous No.19744409]

>>19744403
Yes, but only in your self

[Anonymous No.19744410]

>>19741699
>they've created a perfectly intuitive way to structure reality according to at least my own experiences
Anon that's called indoctrination.

[Anonymous No.19744412]

>>19744403
Yes. Spengler makes a point that anything that has reached its peak will naturally descend, and the Kali Yuga has accordingly reached its peak.

Money and greed rules the world now, but the elite's secular hedonism is making them too comfortable, their social engineering is becoming less subtle and more normies are waking up, making them more susceptible to "radical" ideas like the importance of hierarchies and an eternal Creator.

[Anonymous No.19744416]

>>19742400
>money for a true aristocracy is just a means to an end
Well, duh. It's just that it seems to be a necessary mean to all ends that Greeks saw as virtuous.

[Anonymous No.19744434]

>>19744412
That’ll be ages after I die. Evola was ranting about “modernity” a hundred fucking years ago. I only feel any sense of attachment to cultures that went extinct centuries ago, and whatever weird descendants they have are tainted beyond redemption. It’s all so horrifying.

[Anonymous No.19744453]

>>19744434
You're right, change takes time. But you can still ride the tiger, cultivate yourself and pass on traditional values to your family.

The mysteries of traditional life are rich areas of study. Learning about these and trying to cope with secular society with them I see as fun challenge which I face with courage and determination to make my ancestors and coming children proud. Black pills are insignificant when you are taking action

[Anonymous No.19744562]

>>19744386
I've only read CotMW regarding any texts with a societal message and Guenon didn't seem to be focused so much on leftism in particular as he was on general modernist paradigm which substitutes order that supposedly stems from higher metaphysical instances with man-made concepts. He didn't consider leftism to be the absolute evil but rather a symptom of a deeper decline which he linked to some particular characteristics of Christianity (i.e. the simplicity of initiation) and the fact that a bunch of Renaissance hermeticists apparently weren't competent enough to deal with sacred sciences and esotericism in general. From what I understand this isn't "mostly" metaphysical assumptions, it's metaphysical assumptions through and through.
>>19744397
>Nietzsche in “The Antichrist” attacks Christianity with intensity, but the same criticisms very often ring true for leftism
Yeah, that's my point. Orthodox Marxism in general seems to be just a secularised version of Christianity.

[Anonymous No.19744567]

>>19744562
>i.e.
*e.g.

[Anonymous No.19744692]

>>19744562
>Orthodox Marxism in general seems to be just a secularised version of Christianity.
One believes in a transcendent supernatural power behind, designing and governing the universe, the other believes that this world is nothing more than matter and that people are absolutely determined by it. One believes that this world is fallen from original perfection and will only be restored via a supernatural act of God, the other believes historical advances towards higher and more complex societies and the highest stage is communism. The one believes that one should love one’s neighbor and love God and others, the other believes that you should plunder and kill people more prosperous than you out of envy and greed. The one believes in gender roles, hierarchy and slavery, while the other is egalitarian and feminist.

Lowest IQ take ITT

[Anonymous No.19744762]

>>19741626
If you want something that supports tradition and sympathy for the poor, check out the works of Hilaire Belloc. His work essentially boils down to: the Middle Ages was based, it was redpilled, it was a worker’s paradise, and we’re going back.

[Anonymous No.19744774]

>>19744562
>Orthodox Marxism in general seems to be just a secularised version of Christianity
Marx has ZERO qualms with inequality (based) or hedonism (also based), and eagerly advocates murder (giga based).

[Anonymous No.19744778]

>>19735382
>ancient Greek writers have low regard for craftsmen and business (banausia)
Interesting note, Socrates likely doesnt, Plato does. Early dialogues like the Apology, which are thought to more closely allign with Socartes' teachings, praise craftsmen over statesmen and poets. Later dialogues like the Republic put craftsmen as the lowest rank of the city/soul. Socrates was likely of low birth, Plato aristrocratic.

[Anonymous No.19744796]

>>19735266
OP the problem isn't evola it was you all along joining a peasant army, as opposed to me going insane and going to Ukraine for 3 years on a holy war against Russians

[Anonymous No.19744809]

>>19744562
>Orthodox Marxism in general seems to be just a secularised version of Christianity.
Why does every religious retard that has clearly never read a single word of Marx believe this?

[Anonymous No.19744816]

>>19744386
>The critiques come from mostly a metaphysical assumption, but their critiques of leftism are sharp and specific on their subversion of traditional and spiritual principles which has literally rotted the modern spirit in many ways physically and statistically
lmfao this is all complete nonsense rhetoric with zero (0) critical reasoning.

[Anonymous No.19744840]

>>19744809
It’s not religious retards who claim this, it’s Nietzchean retards from /pol/

[Anonymous No.19744848]

>>19744816
Yes my post is 100% argument from authority. His post didn't deserve an effort post of me spoon-feeding citations and summaries of the arguments in question, they are in their books. All I'm saying is go fucking read the author before strawmanning

[Anonymous No.19745009]

>>19735671
That's what you get for listening to demons instead of grounding your faith in God. Never heard anything good coming from sorcerers and Satanists, but plenty of life-altering accounts from Christians.

[Anonymous No.19745018]

>>19744809
Because it's pretty accurate. It's a bastardized version of christian eschatology.

[Anonymous No.19745025]

>>19745009
Ya, spiritual plebs should just be Christian instead of getting into esoteric stuff.

[Anonymous No.19745037]

>>19745009
Confirmation bias lol

[Anonymous No.19745043]

>>19742803
Maybe it was a real bullet but turned into a dud. You never know. God works in mysterious ways. You deserved your breakdown because you believed yourself to be a god.

Haughtiness comes before the fall.

[Anonymous No.19745058]

Christianity and Marxism are both digustingly plebian.

[Anonymous No.19745086]

>>19744403
Ya, take action and remain inwardly detached from it all, once you realise how shit everything is it's easier to go and do stuff without caring.

[Anonymous No.19745098]

>>19744412
>the Kali Yuga has accordingly reached its peak.
Oh nonononono....

[Anonymous No.19745108]

>>19745058
For somebody so well-read he surely doesn't know anything about ancient Christendom. Nowhere is merit condemned in any Christian text. This is why I threw his books into the trash. Lots of knowledge, no morals.

>>19745025
Christianity has esoterism. As said, I've never seen any of the occult types having major positive life-alterations. Sorcerers and Satanists sense the presence of a (genuine) Christian and try to subvert them. They are only content when they can transmit demonic forces onto you.

[Anonymous No.19745128]

>>19742803
Lmao, after 3 weeks of falling Russian roulette you figure you were the luckiest man in the world? Is this from some movie

[Anonymous No.19745149]

>>19735266
Your life was ruined before it began, globohomo grunt.
Guenon could have saved you. But have we memed Guenon yet? No. It's ok. Luigi's here to make up for the damages.

[Anonymous No.19745155]

>>19745149
lel Evola is Mario
does that make Jesus into Bowser?

[Anonymous No.19745187]

>>19745098
According to the Traditionalist method of cycles the end of the Kali Yuga is 2030. I always forget the name of the author (Georgie/George/something), but he revised his work on Traditional cycles under Guenon's guidance and came up with that year.

[Anonymous No.19745219]

>>19735266
>>be 15 on /pol/
>>get memed into le Evola but dont actually read because pseud
heh

[Anonymous No.19745268]

>>19745108
>Christianity has esoterism.
True. Christianity emerged from an esoteric cult and has lots of esoteric knowledge in the Bible (which most people who don't study esoteric stuff beyond Christianity probably miss). But it has no esoteric or initiatory Tradition, and almost all the time somebody is enlightened they are only mystics and not initiates, since Christianity externalizes the divine and says it can only be reached through devotion and repentance, which is probably my biggest issue with it as this is contrary to the virile Aryan spirit. And from what I've seen the knowledge always appears wrapped up in morality, which should be separate from the esoteric since morality is on a different plane from pure spirituality.

I would agree that most clowns getting into the occult end up more lost than they would have been if they'd just stuck to being a good Christian. But at the same time there are schizos who are Christian that think everything is demons or God talking to them, who are perhaps not totally safe from inferior forces or entities, although this happens less.

I have seen a few people interested in the esoteric who have had positive life alterations, but I would of course be cherrypicking, I am already in agreement that most occult types go down to hell, but unlike Dante they are unable to rise into the higher spheres, because they lack their Virgil or their inner Hermes.

[Anonymous No.19745284]

>>19745149
You swine, you literal fucking nigger animal. Who are you to desecrate the holy image of Guenon, pbuh, you filthy, dark shudra dog?

[Anonymous No.19745307]

>>19736381
>Report type
>This post violates a rule.

>This user is underage.

[Anonymous No.19745317]

>>19744809
>>19744840
it's both but the "argument" can be easily explained with the concept of slave morality wich leads to the idea that marxism is some form of ideology with some sort of moral rules simmilar to those found in relligions

[Anonymous No.19745380]

>>19745317
Based but slave morality comes more from semitic religions or religions in decline

[Anonymous No.19745407]

>>19742803
Russian as fuck

[Anonymous No.19745550]

>>19738470
/thread

[Anonymous No.19745566]

>>19735266
I tell every time people evola was literally a basement dwelling schizo

[Anonymous No.19745681]

>>19735266
>This man ruined my life
>Didn't read him
Kys

[Anonymous No.19745783]

>>19745268
The esoteric and symbolic meaning were not lost on those who lived in ancient times. It is only our modern perception that perverts our understanding. Exoteric practices are for the plebs, esoteric practices are for special clergy and noblemen. I believe we don't have an esoteric understanding of Christendom because we are 2,000 years apart from its founding, and the past 500 years erased traditional and perennial understanding entirely.

I can tell you from my experience that giving my life to God benefited me more than any occult knowledge. Esoterism added a great deal to my understanding, but it did not make me a better man. Moral Law is a necessity since it reflects the natural order. We have an order, and our behavior affects this order. Esoterism must be held accountable by morals to guide the development and cement your understanding. This is why I entertain esoteric literature to some extent, but shun its practices because of its obvious amoral attitude. Interesting to mention, the Corpus Hermeticum appeals to morals and the ultimate Good, which is God. Further esoteric teachings outright deny good and evil.


>But at the same time there are schizos who are Christian that think everything is demons or God talking to them, who are perhaps not totally safe from inferior forces or entities, although this happens less.
They are not to be taken seriously. Someone of a pure heart and sound mind can truly listen to God. Those who go around parading that "fact" are in illusion, their eyes shut.

> I am already in agreement that most occult types go down to hell, but unlike Dante they are unable to rise into the higher spheres, because they lack their Virgil or their inner Hermes
I agree. With spiritual matters it is wise to go the safe path and not the unstable that leads you to hell.

[Anonymous No.19745867]

>>19735266
Enlisting in any military today is to serve ZOG and that is contrary to what Evola taught

[Anonymous No.19745918]

>>19745783
Morality should come downstream as a result of esoteric wisdom. "God" is Good, but the word good in this context doesn't even need human morals attached to it unless it is for the layman's understanding, since all that is above with respect to that which is below, or what is transcendent, is already Good/Truth because it is eternal and incorruptible. From a thorough understanding of this, already morals can be derived, almost all of which I'm sure we would agree on, despite me not being Christian.

Initiation and esoteric knowledge properly understood casts one utterly into the dark (unfortunately many good-hearted people are already here) to be reborn into the transcendent light of Truth or Christ if you like. Anything other than this constitutes a dangerous deviation of pseudo- or worse counter-initiation, which is the case with most vulgar occultists. Morals with no superior point of reference or understanding can be corrupted and misguided or abused, which has happened and is happening.

That is more of my understanding (a more "pagan" perspective) and what I keep in mind as I read the Corpus Hermeticum, which I believe was transcribed under Christianity, although the teachings definitely predate it.

What do you mean by the Natural Law?

[Anonymous No.19745963]

>>19742803
You didn’t continue your journey and fell off the wheel. You were given a literal act of God and failed to realize the significance of it.

[Anonymous No.19746038]

>>19745918
>Morality should come downstream as a result of esoteric wisdom.
No, it should not. Morality is simple and not complex. Goodness is pure love, pure life, pure generating (gens). Morals cannot be derived. Morals change according to culture, religion and geography, but there is only one true Moral Law that approximates the Good of our God. You see it right now that man does not have an inherent understanding of right morals, they fluctuate with the herd opinion. There is an intuition that gives one the gut-feeling for what is right and wrong (morally and practically), but can be minimized by the (((powers that be))).

>what I keep in mind as I read the Corpus Hermeticum, which I believe was transcribed under Christianity
I don't think so. The preservation of ancient cults, practices, sorcery and knowledge was preserved by the Church, usually kept in the Vatican Library and monasteries. Monks had access to it but knew the dangers and darkness of those. A lot of mythology was preserved by Christian culture and the Church, else our planets and weekdays and holidays would not be named after deities from Roman/Greek and Germanic deities. I believe the ancient Church Fathers understood that there is a perrenial element to the lesser "gods", and this is why they are referred to often as well as poets and philosophers from antiquity.

>What do you mean by the Natural Law?
The Natural Law that keeps things in order and running, the synthesis of spiritual and physical laws, its freedoms and limitations. God is a God of Order and not chaos. Chaos can exist within the borders of an uncompromized order, like the woman serves her husband. Gnosticism teaches that God is not masculine, rather androgynous and this is why "equality" and transsexuality is pushed everywhere. With that mindset, conflating the masculine with the feminine, order with chaos, light and darkness, good and evil, we have a disordered civilization, lacking structure and purpose and higher meaning. The Ten Commandments are a short summary of the Natural Law. Keep to these statutes and you will live well.

[Anonymous No.19746109]

>>19735382
>>at least I’m not banausic

dude the reason why the UK (and later on the US) were superpowers was because invested in commerce, business and mercantilism

nothing wrong about business if you see them as a means to an end

[Anonymous No.19746135]

>>19736381
this, first time i came to 4chan regularly was when i was 20 years old

[Anonymous No.19746220]

>>19746135
I know someone who was here since age 10 or 11 and was going off about niggers and kikes (from old /b/) in 6th grade and now he's trans. An asian kid btw.

[Anonymous No.19746303]

>>19745187
George Bolton?

[Anonymous No.19746339]

>>19746109
I agree. I’m still a fan of ancient literature but their obsession with war is frustrating sometimes as I’ll never invade sicily with pikemen, etc. I’d kill to learn more about the laws and institutions of obscurer Greek city states (especially the Ionian ones or ones like Corinth and Syracuse) but Plutarch would rather talk about Timoleon’s military victories than specifics about his civic achievements. It’s still interesting, but the best parts in Thucydides for example are the speeches and political conniving. Hearing him catalogue military maneuvers gets old even though the payoff’s worth it sometimes

[Anonymous No.19746774]

>>19744410
well I think the argument would be that they didn't create this way to organize reality, since they argue all Traditional cultures viewed reality in the same relative way. I'm not saying I agree but they make an interesting case for it.

[Anonymous No.19746792]

>>19746220
>and now he's trans
of course he is

[Anonymous No.19746995]

>>19746792
Ya, he used to be super based and now he whines about muh opreshun and blm shit, complete mental patient like most leftist psych warfare victims.

[Anonymous No.19747009]

Why is this obvious fake OP still up but legitimate threads talking about Traditionalism get deleted?

[Anonymous No.19747011]

>>19745681
To be fair he is a sympathetic casualty of the high speed havoc of the meme war. This isn't team thinking, you isolated dolt.

[Anonymous No.19747083]

>>19744809
Marxism is literally the slave morality, the religion of the weak and paupers. You're just using "U haVenT rEaD maRx" as an argument because you're a solipsistic person who has a version of Marx that only exists in that head of yours. Communists are not human beings and should not be treated as such.

[Anonymous No.19747188]

>>19735266
fake and gay

[Anonymous No.19747197]

>>19747009
tranny jannies

[Anonymous No.19747281]

>>19744151
Dudes rock

[Anonymous No.19747643]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19747699]

>>19735266
Based retard

[Anonymous No.19747712]

>>19742803
lit/ as fuck.
Respect.

[Anonymous No.19747759]

>>19744453
>But you can still ride the tiger
What does it mean, exactly?

[Anonymous No.19747789]

>>19735671

That's what your spirit guides want you to think. You got pranked hard, m8.

[Anonymous No.19748115]

>>19744692
>>19744809
Let’s be more Hegelian. In the same way Christ said, “Thinke not that I am come to destroy the lawe or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” (Matt. 5:17), Marxism is the fulfillment of Christianity not a bastardization of it. It is this logic of fulfillment in Christianity that is also Hegel’s concept of Aufhebung. Hegel says as much. Aufhebung being the most important part of Hegel’s logic & Hegel’s logic being the logic of Marxism.

Marxists should in a sense be Christians, but take Christian logic to its conclusions so they sublate Christianity & in doing so arrive at “true” Christianity. This is what Hegel did. In doing this one transvaluates religion & leaves it behind in its dogmatic institutional form, which is what Christ did.

[Anonymous No.19748122]

>>19748115
Forgot my image

[Anonymous No.19748232]

>>19748115
It's posts like this that make me realize Hegel should be pathologized heavily and banned

[Anonymous No.19748237]

>>19748232
No argument

[Anonymous No.19748291]

>>19748232
Hegel is based but Marxist halfwits bastardised his work and use his good name to promote their jewy materialist shite.

[Anonymous No.19748301]

>>19748237
Kill yourself logo

[Anonymous No.19748654]

>>19739336
it is of minimal (lim 0) importance but your stance gels very well with the themes of his writing
you can boil a lot of his beliefs to "pick some ideas and follow through on them" (the ship) and "don't do anything you would not be willing to do in eternal repetition" (the eternal return)

dude literally dropped his whole life to sit in a cabin in the mountains and write, it is unintuitive he would not be on board with asceticism, just cashing atheist metaphysical commitments out of him is superficial

[Anonymous No.19748689]

>>19748115
this inherits some of the stage theory foolishness of Hegel. why assume features of christianity inspired or directed Marxism when communism is older than both on a geological scale,
why follow the superstructure (marxist and Hegelian liturgy) over the base-ic productive structures
why mix aufhebung and sublation in the same paragraph
why identify the institutional base of religion with dogma when it is so eminently obvious the institutions are instantiating and developing these beliefs in people, eastern orthodox is autocephalous and proties are plenty divided as well

[Anonymous No.19748734]

>Dude, magic, bro

[Anonymous No.19748977]

>>19748689
What’s your point?

[Anonymous No.19749006]

>>19748977
well it's very sharp, I hit it with a whetstone yesterday.
Its just a list of points I think the argument falls short on. I considered a string of obscenities and accusations of larping but I would probably just be enabling the lesser parts of my nature if I did that. you are a larper, you don't go to church, you don't read, have sex, sneed. etc. let me know if you need more details.

[Anonymous No.19749196]

>>19748291
Read Kojeve

[Anonymous No.19749282]

>>19735382
It's true though, grubbers and strivers are banauseating

[Anonymous No.19749295]

>>19735671
In your defense if you're actually a schizo your /x/ obsession was the effect and not the cause, you can't induce that shit. *Something* along those lines would have obsessed you and gotten you to listen to voices.

[Anonymous No.19749298]

>>19745963
This, actually. >>19742803, you DID get lucky as absolute fuck and just didn't realize it.

[Anonymous No.19749310]

>>19735382
>>devote life to studying politics and philosophy
>>I am now a wagie making 1/3 of what my computer science friends make
this is why I sold out and went to law school

[Anonymous No.19749396]

>>19745043
faggot

[Anonymous No.19749408]

What did the traditionalists think of gnosticism, did they ever write about it?

[Anonymous No.19749424]

>>19749408
Something about the mystery schools being opened to normies and the teachings perverted because retards gonna retard.

[Anonymous No.19749452]

>>19749424
So, like everything else?
The texts are still available in their original form though.

[Anonymous No.19749516]

>>19749408
Gnosticism isn't traditional, it's an enemy of orthodoxy and was basically the longhair hippie retardation of its time, inb4 "but muh Platonists can't be unbased hippies!!!!!".

Evola-type faketrads might have liked gnosticism but that's just because they weren't real traditionalists but pseudo-Hinduist mystic-larpers.

[Anonymous No.19749560]

The end result of Gnosticism is Trannyism.

[Anonymous No.19749569]

>>19749516
Gnosticism and Platonism are not the same thing

[Anonymous No.19749694]

>>19749569
When people refer to Platonism is an esoteric sense, what do they actually mean?
t. never read any Plato

[Anonymous No.19749759]

>>19749516
>Traditionalism is 'it's traditional therefore it's good'
Not what that means. Also >>19749569 is correct, >>19749694 clearly has never read Plato, Plotinus, or the Nag Hammadi.

Gnosticism and Platonism are not the same thing. Platonism is now endemic to Nicene Christianity, through writings attributed to St. Dionysius the Areopagite. This Pseudo-Dionysius may have been Damascius, since he is clearly familiar with Proclus.

Moreso this can be seen in the Eastern church, but clear influence can be felt in the Western Church as well. I don't know about Protestantism, but who the fuck cares about Protestantism?

Plotinus, the formidable late ("neo") Platonist, wrote a long tractate against the Gnostics, which can be seen in the Enneads. Even though his student, Porphyry, did the same against Christians in general, and /his/ student, Iamblichus, was one of the last great pagan theologians, Late Platonism made massive ripples throughout the Early Church. Gnosticism, drawing upon the middle Platonist tradition, had some interplay with late Platonism, but not to the degree other Christian sects had, and it varied even amongst the Gnostic churches (of which there were many.)

God this website is full of fucking pseuds.

[Anonymous No.19749817]

>>19749516
>>19749560
So tradlarpers really are midwits with not even a cursory understanding of actual religion, thanks for confirming.

[Anonymous No.19749830]

>>19749817
Go cut off your dick and unite with the Monad.

[Anonymous No.19749835]

>>19749830
>unite with the Monad.
Pretty much the opposite of gnostic soteriology, kek. Keep seething, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.19749920]

>>19749759
huh? I literally just entered the thread. Curious what Platonism is.

[Anonymous No.19750058]

>>19735266
>This man ruined my life
Sounds like you ruined your own life by not bothering to study what you were getting into. Maybe if you actually read some books this time, you can leverage some of your military skills to get a decent civilian job when you get out.

[Anonymous No.19750549]

>>19741216
>left's ability to theorize an ideal society based on Reason
no such thing is possible. nobody can even be the ideal, perfect self. but there is such a thing as transcendence, based on objective truth (which you can choose to accept or reject), and that's where the right-wing critique begins.

[Anonymous No.19750614]

>>19741626
Go back and, in detail, Plato (both exoterically and esoterically), Aristotle, and then Plotinus/an analysis of Plato's supposed "unwritten doctrines."

If necessary, stick to The Republic, Nicomachean Ethics, Politics, and otherwise be broadly aware of the rest of Plato's and Aristotle's corpus. They're all linked together anyway.

Then read the Traditionalists (I'm sure you already have a general view of the Western canon + religious texts to tackle these thinkers first).

Finally, synthesize the two perspectives. You may realize that some leftism is good, like a pendulum. But any leftism devoid of a transcendental goal or real world grounding will ultimately destroy a society.

[Anonymous No.19750620]

>>19741626
>>19750614
btw I like your perspective. you're about 80% of the way there already to having a sound political perspective. but you are focusing too much on the eros while ignoring the thumos of the West. we are BOTH.

perhaps read Sloterdijk's book on rage for some perspective here.

[Anonymous No.19750672]

>>19735266
>took the spirituality pill
>blacks are even worse than i thought

[Anonymous No.19751146]

>>19746220
well, can we see what he looks like now?

[Anonymous No.19751176]

>>19744396
lol what

[Anonymous No.19751341]

>>19738470
Why do you respond to yourself with 5 images that say based?

[Anonymous No.19751630]

>>19745268
>it has no esoteric or initiatory Tradition
You mention
>Dante
who is very much part of that chain. Esotericism in Christianity was opposed by the exoteric leaders of the church so they had to hide, even beyond what is usual in esoteric circles.

I can recommend "Meditations on the Tarot" as a counterbalance for Evola and Guenon who can be very dry. It explains, among other things, the genealogy of initiatory Tradition in the West and also that an esoteric practitioner must first be in full communion with the exoteric part, the two are not to be in opposition. Initiation can now only come 'from above'.

[Anonymous No.19751671]

>>19742803
Thanks, i will now write book about this.

[Anonymous No.19751741]

>>19736381
first went on 4chan when I was like 13
you lucked out
I partially blame myself but no point in regretting it

[Anonymous No.19751806]

>>19738470
Yeah I’m thinking based

[Anonymous No.19751823]

>>19748734
>Big tits implies big ass
ALCHEMY WIRKS WONDERS

[Anonymous No.19751835]

>>19735382
Plato also told you that you shouldn’t bother with philosophy until you’re 50 and have lived enough to be critical of what’s written.

[Anonymous No.19751932]

>>19741216
Your impression is right, most of these books are basically high tier schizo ramblings in the way they mix interpretation of ancient cultural symbolism from various culture to craft systems that supposedly map man with some millenarism (basically modernism is the kali yuga).

I’m a pragmatic so maybe I’m overly harsh but Evola and Guenon only have values as critics of equality and modernism. I also think they’re just made obsolete by our discovery of genetics and evolutionary psychology (like a large pan of philosoohy) which shines a whole new light on the purpose on traditionalism without some magic and ancient spirituality..

[Anonymous No.19751969]

>>19751835
people in platos time only lived to 30 and they were like 4 feet tall

[Anonymous No.19752028]

>>19747759
>>But you can still ride the tiger
>What does it mean, exactly?
Being in this world but not of it.

[Anonymous No.19752050]

>>19751932
>I also think they’re just made obsolete by our discovery of genetics and evolutionary psychology (like a large pan of philosoohy) which shines a whole new light on the purpose on traditionalism without some magic and ancient spirituality..
Really dumb mentality. The material and the ideal are in correspondence with one another. You ever think about the wonder of creation? Or how we shape our environments? Where meaning is ultimately grounded in? A redpilled person knows how to navigate both worlds because they're interconnected (like everything).

[Anonymous No.19752119]

>>19738470
I'm pretty sure glowies like Evola. Bannon liked him.

[Anonymous No.19752321]

>>19751969
No they didn't, children mortality was high
which lowered average life expectancy drastically but if you made it to adult age you had high chances to make it to your 60s, especially as a noble/landowner.

>>19752050
This kind of arbitrary dualism is exactly what I am talking about. You polarize the material and spiritual like if they were two different planes, then the creation (implying there is a creator as a different entity) then differentiate "us" from the environment. All of this being justified by intuition and because the ancient believed it (as if they were fundamentally wiser or more in tune with existence).

To me these beliefs that you find in almost all traditions are not divine inspirations or whatever supernatural laws but evolutionary stable strategies: in short the societies that followed a set of norms/practices/laws/beliefs outperformed the ones that didn't and either:
- subjuguated them
- destroyed them
- just outlived them (as they would collapse from their own dysfunction)

A good example would be how patriarchy has completely wiped out matriarchy because it's just evolutionarily well performing organization for humans. Coincidentally since the West is abandonning patriarchy it's becoming increasingly weaker since we're getting outcompeted by civilizations that are not doing so (typically islamic ones who are outbreeding us and immigrating in Europe resulting in demographic and so cultural replacement).

Fact is that all the memes that we are seeing today pushed as "progress" (homosexuality, unbrided hypergamy, feminism, xenophilia, etc...) have very likely been tried in the past over the last 5000 years of civilization by some cultures at some point and got just wiped out as their fitness was low (a matriarchal society of hunter gatherers probably wouldn't do well in conflict against a patriarchal pastoralist society).
From this point tradition is an aggregation of memes that allowed the ones who adopted and perpetuated it to outbreed everyone else.

The ultimate "redpill" of that observation is that progressivism is actually regression and traditions is the real sum of progress from a few families of apes living in a forest to a race of space faring hominids.

This is much less poetic/romantic than the lunar and solar civilizations from Evola but it is way more articulate with our understanding of nature.

[Anonymous No.19752526]

>>19751630
Dante and other esoteric Traditions used Christianity as a facade to avoid persecution by the church, they are not Christian esoteric Traditions.

[Anonymous No.19752569]

>>19751932
It comes down to if you believe in the reality of metaphysics or not. You can only put your faith in it or believe in it from experience, you can't prove it scientifically or materially since it is quite literally beyond those things. The Traditionalist method of synthesis is very different from syncretism btw.

[Anonymous No.19752691]

>>19751932
>I also think they’re just made obsolete by our discovery of genetics and evolutionary psychology
How does genetics and evolutionary psychology (evolutionary psych cant be proven by the way!!!) make Traditionalism obsolete? Do yoiu understand what Traditionalism is?

>>19752321
To me these beliefs that you find in almost all traditions are not divine inspirations or whatever supernatural laws but evolutionary stable strategies
>traditions is the real sum of progress from a few families of apes living in a forest to a race of space faring hominids
This nonsense is absolutely disgusting.

[Anonymous No.19752762]

>>19735671
Counter-initatic practices give counter-initiatic results.
Anons, be warned: take no part in New Thought/LoA and chaos magic.

[Anonymous No.19752782]

>>19752762
Just study Hermeticism, don't be a pleb.

[Anonymous No.19752900]

>>19752782
Fully agreed.

[Anonymous No.19752963]

>>19752900
You read intro to magic?

[Anonymous No.19753022]

>>19735671
You probably couldn't help being a schizo Anon, it's the just the brain deteriorating in a very specific way, your Law of Attraction obession was merely the way your schizophrenia expressed itself, it could have been anything.

[Anonymous No.19753173]

>>19752321
>but it is way more articulate
It's both less poetic and less articulate, therefore I will continue to ignore it. I will agree that it somehow manages to be simultaneously more convoluted whilst saying less.

[Anonymous No.19753182]

>>19752321
>but it is way more articulate with our understanding of nature
implying the physicalist 'understanding' of nature is correct or worth anything

[Anonymous No.19753208]

>>19735748
>>19737529
Op btfo

[Anonymous No.19753237]

>>19752963
Yeah, it's great. Haven't read part 3 yet but apparently he gets into his whole Absolute Individual thing based on German Idealism.

[Anonymous No.19753334]

>>19753237
I'm not familiar with German Idealism but I don't think he really talked about it in volume 3. His early philosophy about the Absolute Individual hasn't been translated into English. The ItM material is really high tier though, I have re-read lots of it and still find new meanings I missed before. Same goes for his work on Hermeticism. Btw, Alchemy Unveiled by Johannes Helmond is in the same vein and really helpful, there's an English translation online, highly recommended if you're serious about this stuff.

[Anonymous No.19753360]

>>19753237
The 'Absolute Individual' part in ItM3 has nothing to do with Evola's contribution to German Idealism, which he wrote as a seperate work before he became interested in esoterism and Traditionalism.

[Anonymous No.19753378]

We need a place to talk about Intro to Magic and Hermeticism properly understood away from the eyes of the profane.

[Anonymous No.19753531]

>>19749310
Yeah most phil majors did that. What’s your thoughts on law school and the legal market right now? I landed pretty alright in business but I still think about it, but everything I read about law school and post-grad legal employment is very discouraging.

[Anonymous No.19753557]

>>19753378
It would just turn into /x/ and become infested with new age and christlarpers

[Anonymous No.19753563]

>>19753378
Just make a discord but watch it be filled with guys that don't know what theyre talking about or even practice for that matter. Theoryfags are the bane of occultism.

[Anonymous No.19753732]

>>19753563
>Just make a discord
We shall. Or would Telegram be better?

[Anonymous No.19753733]

>>19753732
Discord. Telegram is gay.

[Anonymous No.19753734]

>>19753557
Plebs would be banned.

[Anonymous No.19753737]

>>19753733
I think Discord is gay but whatever.

[Anonymous No.19753753]

>>19753563
Unless its only to share books, this is the fate of all discord groups. People with a sincere interest in the subject spend their time studying. Everyone else just shit posts.

[Anonymous No.19753760]

eXBDV8Wp

Let's see how this goes.

[Anonymous No.19753793]

tfw I know who Evola is because of Philosophy Tube. ^_^

[Anonymous No.19753872]

>>19735266
/pol/ ruins a lot of lives.

[Anonymous No.19753888]

>>19753734
all good then

[Anonymous No.19754027]

>>19753888
checked, you joining?

[Anonymous No.19754043]

>be me
>told by /pol/ that Christ is bad etc etc
>lose faith in Christianity
>turn to Slavic paganism because I was a huge teutonboo at the time and knew a lot about it(I’m not Slavic)
>get sticks and mud from woods, assemble it into crude figure
>call it perun
>worship perun in my shed for months, ask him to confer blessings to me, give him offerings of bread etc
>sometimes hear him actually speaking to me, but it’s just mumbling
>began to lift around this time so feel good too
>attribute it to perun, become even more devoted to him
>Start learning Russian to intensify LARP
>one day go to worship him
>have moment of clarity
>realize I’m crouching in my shed worshipping mud and sticks in the likeness of a 1000+ ear old god from a dead religion I’m not even ethnically connected to
>smash it to pieces, scatter it, never mention it

[Anonymous No.19754134]

>>19753334
>>19753360
I stand corrected.
>Alchemy Unveiled by Johannes Helmond
Thank you for this, looks like a gem.
>>19753378
Just make effortposts here. They go a long way. I have several saved and have made a few myself that have gone over well. If you build it, they will come.
Plebs either naturally stay out or will try to detail the thread but if you do not respond and continue to engage in a series of effortposts with others doing the same then you will have a fruitful discussion on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.19754151]

>>19754134
Ya but I don't like talking about the secrets openly, join the discord please sir.

[Anonymous No.19754520]

>>19754043
Return to Christ.

[Anonymous No.19754526]

"pol ruined my life" is the oldest shill template. It comes from people who cut their dicks off and eventually commit suicide.

[Anonymous No.19754589]

>>19754043
Neopaganism and the various forms of witchcraft are also a waste of time at best or counter-initiation at worst. Fortunately, in your case you just wasted your time.

[Anonymous No.19754598]

>>19752691
>>19753173
>>19753182
>no reasoning, no arguments, just emtpy posturing
Thanks for comforting me in my beliefs at least

[Anonymous No.19754608]

>>19754598
There was nothing to respond to, no arguments, no reasoning, just empty statistics with no philosophical or rational grounding.

[Anonymous No.19754637]

>>19754608
Yes there is, you just did not understand them or could not retort.
But anyway, pointless "discourse" like with 90% of /lit/fags posers.

[Anonymous No.19754648]

>>19754637
No, nothing you said actually had any substance. The entire "point" of your post was that there are "evolutionary stable strategies", which no traditionalist ever disagreed with. You're arguing at them like your opinion is even relevant to what's being discussed. You also argued that mind does not exist and that there is only matter, another philosophically baseless assertion. Again nothing worth responding to.

[Anonymous No.19754653]

>>19752526
This is an impossibility, there is no esoteric Tradition separate from its exoteric counterpart. Christianity is the Tradition of the West, as Guenon said and this includes both parts. In Christianity these are the church of Peter and the church of John, the head and the heart.
The esoterist needs to follow the exoteric religion and the two cannot be in opposition. One is not a 'True(tm)' version of the other but for the smarter people, both lead to the same goal even though the lived experience between the two is vastly different. Now the church of that time did not understand that and that is their error, but that does not defeat the principle or the necessity.

A more recent example of this is René Guenon himself, who converted to Islam to obtain a Sufi initiation. The sole reason he left was because he thought initiation was no longer possible here, so he became fully Muslim first, the same principle applies and Guenon held to that.

[Anonymous No.19754655]

>>19752321
To me your entire post is not truth or any sort of scientific reality, but just an evolutionary stable strategy, and therefore false.

[Anonymous No.19754716]

>>19754648
>which no traditionalist ever disagreed with
Ok so you're definitely a poser.
Both of Guenon and Evola literally argue (word for word) for a divine revelation as the source of tradition, it even has a name and is called perennialism.

Here a short excerpt from Guénon Études de l'hindouisme (he talks about the article of an historian on Yoga):
>L’auteur, qui ignore trop évidemment les lois cycliques, admire le « progrès » en vertu duquel « les lois ne sont plus d’origine divine » et « la science n’est plus une révélation » ; nous disons au contraire, conformément à toutes les doctrines traditionnelles, que ce sont là précisément les marques les plus nettes d’une dégénérescence profane telle qu’il n’est guère possible de tomber plus bas !

[Anonymous No.19754721]

>>19752569
>if you believe in the reality of metaphysics or not.
Not him but believing in metaphysics doesn't imply believing in the traditionalist position.

[Anonymous No.19754732]

>>19754716
Not him but 'evolutionary stable strategies' doesnt mean a source of inspiration, revelation, tradition or whatever you want to call it.
Anon was using those unrelated evolutionary theories to argue that they are the source.

[Anonymous No.19754770]

>>19752691
>How does genetics and evolutionary psychology (evolutionary psych cant be proven by the way!!!) make Traditionalism obsolete? Do yoiu understand what Traditionalism is?

You completely missed the point he made I think.
His point is that traditionalism is good because it's the sum of experience from hundreds if not thousands of human generations.
What he argues is obsolete is the explanation for the root of tradition from Evola, mostly because genetics and game theory were not a thing yet.

[Anonymous No.19754805]

>>19754770
Tradition is timeless. (t)Traditions that developed over time through civilization isn't timeless, it's forever changing. I didnt miss his point. He is just stupid.

[Anonymous No.19754830]

Why are you people trying to argue with a materialist? The very fact that he's trying to fit Traditionalism within a materialist framework is peak subversion. Don't dignify his bullshit.

[Anonymous No.19754846]

>>19754830
>don't confront your beliefs to others
You are a fundamentally weak person

[Anonymous No.19754889]

>>19752119
I've never seen any indication that Bannon actually read him or took anything from him. It just seemed like an edgy namedrop to me.
Anyway, what gives you the idea glowies like Evola, especially after this thread?

[Anonymous No.19754893]

>>19754846
>Values mindless discourse over practice and attainment

damn that's crazy

[Anonymous No.19754896]

>>19754846
That makes no sense. If someone comes to a restaurant asking to get his car fixed, you ignore him or tell him to leave.

[Anonymous No.19754902]

>>19754805
>Tradition is timeless. (t)Traditions that developed over time through civilization isn't timeless, it's forever changing.

And this is the bottom of the issue with Guénon and his followers. They claim a providential understanding of tradition despite having very little knowledge in other disciplines studying nature and the universe to ponder their views (and in fact act extremely uppity toward them) despite Guénon sourcing so many of his claims with "on dit".

It's a philosophy that fails to scale and will be forever constrained to internet edgelords and schizoids living in the delusion of being "aristocrats of the soul", hilarious and a bit sad.

[Anonymous No.19754906]

>>19754902
This is why Traditionalism is a decent place to start but it'll become a trap so long as you merely theorize and don't practice anything. Too many Traditionalists keep themselves ignorant of legitimate occultism and so they're lacking not only that critical context but also the way forward.

[Anonymous No.19754913]

>>19754896
>awful car analogy
The depth of the average evolafags

>>19754893
>do the exact opposite as what he preaches
What are you doing on an anonymous imageboard then? Oh right you're just a poseur.

[Anonymous No.19754916]

>>19754913
You literally can't sneed.

[Anonymous No.19754961]

>>19754913
>awful car analogy
It worked whether you like it or not, I was only trying to get to your level so you would understand.
Now begone, tranny

[Anonymous No.19754971]

>>19752321
Based evo poster making lunatics seethe. Truth is too hard for them to handle

[Anonymous No.19754980]

>>19754971
samefag

[Anonymous No.19754999]

>>19754980
No I am not, just like your group of tradlarper copers isnt a one schizo with 5 different personalities in his head I presume. The theory of evolution is true and it explain the world better than your fairy tales that make you tummy feel good because it provides you copes.

[Anonymous No.19755001]

>>19754999
waste of trips

[Anonymous No.19755006]

>>19752321
Any books that delve deeper into the relation between natural selection and ideas/beliefs? Ive read Moral Animal and I liked it a lot

[Anonymous No.19755226]

>>19755006
I have searched for it over the last decade and haven't found anything I like.
Memetics has been mostly studied by biologists and on second hand by sociologists but everytime with a narrow scope (it's either focus on why humans evolved into spiritual animals or what's the physiological impact of religion on an individual. Most "authors" just repeat Dawkins with some fluff in bonus.

The only author who tried to make a syncretic book in some aspect is Peterson but it's tangential and not very good because it's too focused on self help and then it goes into some Jungian stuff that deviates completely.

Maybe someone who has a solid grasp on history of civilization, philosophy, religion and evo psycho will write this book one day but there is no Spengler of evo psycho (yet).

[Anonymous No.19755245]

>>19749920
There's (at least) three distinct meanings of the word Platonism.

First, there's the traditional Hellenistic definition, which largely interpreted Plato as an analogical, mystical, or even religious thinker. These particular interpretations of Plato were popular throughout antiquity and gave rise to the middle and late Platonist movements, the latter of which is conventionally called neo-Platonism and was initiated by the aforementioned Plotinus. This is what I meant when I said Platonism earlier.

Second, there's the more modern definition, informed largely by analytic philosophy, which considers Plato primarily as a "philosopher" in the modern sense, outside of his mystical capacities. This is how most learn Plato these days. It is argued that the traditional forms of early-middle-late Platonism were based on apocryphal accounts of Plato, the so-called "hidden doctrines of Plato" and show little resemblance to what Plato actually believed. Personally, I don't give a single fuck about this sort of Platonism.

Finally, there is the formalized, wholly analytic form of platonism (small p) which is somewhat based in Plato's theory of forms, but not really. This sort of platonism holds that abstract objects are real in the same sense that concrete objects are real, albeit nonspatiotemporally (outside of space and time.) I was most interested in this sort of philosophy as a boy, I read Max Tegmark's Our Mathematical Universe when it came out, I must have been 13. I liked it then, but these days, I find it mindless drivel and I prefer the four Ps -- Plato, Plotinus, Porphyry, Proclus. I still find platonism (small p) interesting, but not in the way I find Platonism (big p) interesting.

Hope this cleared things up. I don't care about Evola or Guenon. Just didn't like pseuds conflating Gnosticism and Platonism.

[Anonymous No.19755326]

>>19755226
Funny that you say there is no Spengler of evo psych, because I wanted to recommend you evolutionist Woodley of Menie, who came to the similar conclusions as Spengler (cyclical view of history). Do you know him? If not, I suggest looking into Modernity and Cultural Decline or At Our Wits Ends. For example, he argues similarly as you did in the previous post, that religion worked as an evolutionary strategy of group selection and since there are no evolutionary pressures that produced it (war primarily), we no longer select for religious genes leading to a society with a strong feelings of nihilism.

[Anonymous No.19755341]

>>19755326
I don’t, I will look into, thanks for the recommendation

[Anonymous No.19755423]

>>19735382
>ancient Greek writers have low regard for craftsmen and business
>I am now a wagie making 1/3 of what my computer science friends make

You clearly did not take their message to heart. True richness is one of the soul, not of fleeting material posessions.

[Anonymous No.19755464]

>>19752321
>This kind of arbitrary dualism is exactly what I am talking about. You polarize the material and spiritual like if they were two different planes
I'm the guy you replied to. And I apologize for not making this clear earlier. I'm not a dualist, but rather a monist.

Idk if "dialectical monism", "neutral monism", etc., is the precise brand, but I believe the world works in that way. And it doesn't matter whether you start with the material or the ideal explanation, you end up getting to the same place. Hence, divine correspondence.

There's no arbitrariness to it, besides your starting point, since every action has a reaction, and human beings are compelled to move by ideal forces as much as they are by material forces (and vice versa). Use whatever explanation *you* need to get there. I think evolutionary explanations have a lot of truth to them. So don't waste your breath with me. I think they're right. But don't neglect the shadow.

Meditate on that. Or not. It doesn't really matter to me whether you're running on 50% potential or 100% potential.

[Anonymous No.19755473]

>>19755464

[Anonymous No.19755989]

>>19755423
With the exception of the cynics and the stoics most ancients were deeply concerned with the material world insofar as virtue is a tool to achieve honorable deeds and not just a facsimile of smug superiority. Even then there were stoics like Arrian and Marcus Aurelius who did not find it inconsistent with stoic philosophy to pursue the cursus honorum. I don’t care how much your mysticism makes you feel superior to others I much prefer to live life

[Anonymous No.19756003]

many such cases

[Anonymous No.19756010]

>>19735382
>t. hasn't read Works and Days

[Anonymous No.19756105]

>>19755989
>who did not find it inconsistent with stoic philosophy to pursue the cursus honorum
I mean, if it was 100% proven inconsistent, then Stoicism is a parasitic philosophy that should be rooted out by any society interested in self-preservation. Not wanting to plant a stake in society (because it's seen as unimportant) is akin to getting up and walking away. If everybody did that, then goodbye society. But if there was no society, then how could Stoic philosophy come into existence and perpetuate itself? It's a walking contradiction.

[Anonymous No.19756143]

>>19744412
>the elites
>radical ideas such as the importance of hierarchies
How does that make sense? Are the elites not on top of todays hierachy and very much in favor of keeping that hierarchy?

[Anonymous No.19756210]

>>19744412
>their social engineering is becoming less subtle and more normies are waking up, making them more susceptible to "radical" ideas like the importance of hierarchies and an eternal Creator.
or that the Holocaust is fake

I would have never imagined in 100 years that my boomer Trumper dad, who is Jewish (but non-practicing), would be questioning whether Albert Einstein was a front, Trump was an asset, or if there was more to the Holocaust than meets the eye. It's actually quite exhilarating to see unfold before my eyes.

I can appreciate nuance and think for myself. Some things the establishment says are true (or partially grounded in truth). Other things are laughably false and self-serving. But the normie defense mechanism is to recognize that everything they believe was implanted there by education, the media, politicians, etc., and to question everything.

I really wonder if TPTB realize that they're playing with the ideological equivalent of antibiotics. Antibiotics were supposed to be used sparingly. Yet when you use antibiotics for every little problem, you create superbugs that are resistant.

Well, what we're doing is creating antibiotic-resistant ideological superbugs by trying to control every element of the narrative instead of the most crucial parts. That's going to lead to epistemic nihilism on a massive scale, since even normies aren't dumb enough to believe this clownish metanarrative anymore on face value. And who knows what crazy superbugs will arise out of the festering soup known as Weimerica.

Well, it's not my problem. The elites made their bed. Let them lie in it.

[Anonymous No.19756219]

>>19756143
The elites pretend there is no hierarchy because we live in muh democracy (that must be fortified by patriotic bureaucrats to resist against unwelcome interruptions, e.g., the Trump presidency)

[Anonymous No.19757126]

Drop out of the military and enroll in community college or something.