I'm unable to cope with animal suffering

[Anonymous No.19607635]

I can seem to be able to do it when it comes to human suffering, or when I take in consideration universal suffering, but not for animals alone. I feel that every problem humans might have can be overcome eventually, or is less serious than what animals go through, especially because of us. Is there literature that can offer some unique insights about the suffering of animals or how to overcome it? Not necessarily regarding vegetarianism. I would appreciate also if some anons could offer his advice on how coped in the end (I don't care if you are a vegetarian or not).

Npcs not welcome. Also don't bring up the Genesis. If you don't have compassion for an animal you will never be a great writer and you don't belong to a literature board.

[Anonymous No.19607658]

> If you don't have compassion for an animal you will never be a great writer and you don't belong to a literature board.
yes, because animals, who don't think, speak, or use language whatsoever, are the primary producers and consumers of literature.

[Anonymous No.19607659]

>>19607635
>Is there literature that can offer some unique insights about the suffering of animals or how to overcome it?
When we have settle ourselves in the space. We should evacuate and blow up this shithole from space. This is the only solution to animal suffering.

[Anonymous No.19607661]

>>19607658
spotted the brainlet

[Anonymous No.19607666]

>>19607659
>When we have settle ourselves in the space.
let's hope not, anon!

[Anonymous No.19607667]

>>19607635
animal suffering is not as deep as ours bc they can't relate consciously to their suffering, this gives our suffering a much more horrible quality and justifies priorizing our needs over theirs

[Anonymous No.19607672]

>>19607635
>papa, why are they beating the horse?

[Anonymous No.19607678]

I think Hardy's attitude is best, or at least inevitable. Life is tragic and the suffering of animals is one of the things we have to resign ourselves to.

A Sheep Fair:

The day arrives of the autumn fair,
And torrents fall,
Though sheep in throngs are gathered there,
Ten thousand all,

Sodden, with hurdles round them reared:
And, lot by lot, the pens are cleared,
And the auctioneer wrings out his beard,
And wipes his book, bedrenched and smeared,
And rakes the rain from his face with the edge of his hand,
As torrents fall.

The wool of the ewes is like a sponge
With the daylong rain:
Jammed tight, to turn, or lie, or lunge,
They strive in vain.
Their horns are soft as finger-nails,
Their shepherds reek against the rails,
The tied dogs soak with tucked-in tails,
The buyers' hat-brims fill like pails,
Which spill small cascades when they shift their stand
In the daylong rain.

Postscript:

Time has trailed lengthily since met
At Pummery Fair
Those panting thousands in their wet
And woolly wear:
And every flock long since has bled,
And all the dripping buyers have sped,
And the hoarse auctioneer is dead,
Who "Going—going!" so often said,
As he consigned to doom each meek, mewed band
At Pummery Fair.

[Anonymous No.19607684]

>>19607635
Hideously, superlatively based.

There is no coping, anon. You live with it every day.

>>19607667
>crawling iiiin my skiiin
Lol

[Anonymous No.19607694]

Ecclesiastes seems to me the wisest of wisdom books. Hardy's worldview seems heavily influenced by it. There's a great passage re: the plight of animools in Mencius too:
>When the noble-minded see birds and animals alive, they cannot bear to see them dead. Hearing their cries, they cannot bear to eat their flesh. That's why the noble minded steer clear of kitchens.

[Anonymous No.19607701]

>>19607635
Plutarch - On Meat Eating
Porphyry - On Abstention from Animal Food
Schopenhauer - On the Suffering of the World
John Gray - The Silence of Animals

Also Genesis actually says that all the animals and man were vegetarian before the Fall.

[Anonymous No.19607718]

>I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

[Anonymous No.19607723]

>>19607635
I will give a you a stoic method of coping with this. When you are upset by animal suffering it is due to the conception of a world in which animals do not suffer. If the world in which animals suffered was the only world that you conceived of, you would accept it. But you conceive of two worlds: the world that is, in which they do suffer, and the hypothetical world in which they do not suffer. But this hypothetical world is not real and it can never be real. That is not to say that nothing can be done to help animals in certain ways, but a world in which they do not suffer is not one that can exist. So ultimately the thing that is upsetting you is something that is not real. You are allowing a fantasy to hinder your well-being. Get rid of it, conceive only of the reality, and accept that it cannot be another way. Why is it that way? The question is irrelevant because it cannot be another way.

[Anonymous No.19607729]

>>19607635
animals suffer quite a lot in nature too, anon. what's your point here?

[Anonymous No.19607730]

>>19607635
basically you think animals are innocents. the same reason people can´t cope with the suffering of children.
in general people despise humanity and want to get out of this world. they are so full of themselves that they can`t think humans are just animals.

[Anonymous No.19607739]

>>19607729
I know, but its different. Nature's cruelty makes me feel bad for sure. A lion would die if he became vegetarian.
>>19607730
aren't beasts born in captivity innocent?

[Anonymous No.19607783]

>>19607739
you are the beast in captivity pal. you are just projecting over it. .

[Anonymous No.19607788]

>>19607694
I'll read hardy, thanks anon
>>19607701
yea but people usually bring it up for justifying meat eating. I've read those except the silence of animals, which I'll check out soon

[Anonymous No.19607804]

>>19607783
Even if that were true, I'm sure I don't suffer like a beast in captivity with furs.

[Anonymous No.19607808]

>>19607718
the best
>>19607723
It can be another way only if we take in consideration the human animal.

[Anonymous No.19607814]

>>19607808
>It can be another way only if we take in consideration the human animal.
And that will change things how?

[Anonymous No.19607828]

>>19607804
you are still projecting.

[Anonymous No.19607878]

>>19607723
>accept your powerlessness in the face of evil bro
Cuckold

[Anonymous No.19607884]

>>19607878
Go ahead and tell me how you plan to eliminate animal suffering.

[Anonymous No.19607900]

>>19607884
Real men will the impossible. Stoicism implodes when you ask it where to place the boundary between what is under my control and what isn't. Where do my capacities run out? What if gathering a team of animal welfare activists who systematically hunt down every Tyson shareholder for some Minecraft is "within my control"? What if breaking into a mega farm and freeing every pig is within my control, given enough time and resources? Did you really spend all that time reading Seneca and Aurelius and Epictetus to come out with: just stop thinking about it bro? Fuckin' lush.

[Anonymous No.19607907]

>>19607900
>Fuckin' lush.
I was going to respond to you but you used some kind of zoomer slang at the end and I can no longer gather the willpower.

[Anonymous No.19607909]

>>19607635
horseanon approves you so much, anon. you're on the right path. there truly is no suffering more tragic than that of an innocent wordless animal

[Anonymous No.19607913]

>>19607907
Consider taking your daily prescribed medication.

[Anonymous No.19607916]

>>19607913
Sorry anon but when you said that I realized I was arguing with a 12 year old or something and I don't care anymore. Have a good day.

[Anonymous No.19607917]

>>19607909
Based horseposter.

[Anonymous No.19607944]

>>19607917
horse and man had always shared the same burden. a horse is perhaps the best allegory there is for a person.
the workhorse, a wretched majority, had always been exploited, for it is strong and by this virtues "owes" to the lessers. its life is at the mercy of the owner, who is rarely good or noble. sometimes the bond will be fruitful and considerate, uniting the two in their labour in struggle; more often it is putrid and inhumane. horses as people are often discarded, though in a more literal sense, the moment they stop being useful.
horses had always been more than just transport or force, it's a provider, a helper, a friend. rightfully respected in cultures and places that do not treat them as expendables... which mostly became universal as the industrial revolution started.
before machines came into wide use, most horse users would just provide the animals with the barest minimum so they survive for enough to be profitable in the end. to look at the fate of working animals and not see the cruelty closely mirrored onto us men is a sorry mistake.

[Anonymous No.19607949]

My pigeon died today. I've been crying all day. Talking to you anons makes me feel very good. Honestly, I just want to read books and have conversations with actual friends but I do not have anybody that doesn't think of me as naive or arrogant or stupid. I loved my pigeon. Only thing I've ever wished is for him to live forever.

[Anonymous No.19607951]

>>19607944
I watched a series of documentaries on the Napoleonic Wars and I always felt worse for the horses killed in battle than the monkeys larping as noble asuras.

I feel terrible for all suffering creatures. Everything you say is true.

[Anonymous No.19607955]

>>19607635
Suffering is an integral part of nature. It is one of the driving forces for evolution. We can woek towards minimizing unnecessary suffering, but removing suffering altogether is just childish

[Anonymous No.19607959]

>>19607949
an injured pidge was sitting on my doorstep the other day, it's the first time i've ever picked one up, he was remarkably light and hollow... i guess that's why they can fly. anyway, sorry about your pigeon, anon.

[Anonymous No.19607960]

>>19607635
>Is there literature
Why animal suffering matters, by Linzey.
Not specifically about suffering but, Being a Beast has a good chapter on the absolute nightmarish hell that must be being a fox in London.
Also bless you and your soul anon.

[Anonymous No.19607962]

>>19607949
I once found a pigeon with what I assumed was a broken wing huddling beneath my doorway during a cold rain storm and when I'd come near him he wouldn't fly away, something was busted. I called animal control but everybody's a miserable cunt in the city and I could almost hear them rolling their eyes. Eventually he got so scared he flew away far enough to convince me his wing was in okay shape. I was about to take him in.

One time I was working security in a building and I got a call that a tiny little bat was grounded in the hallway, no idea how he got there. If I didn't get him someone might have killed him. I took him in, put him in a shoe box, and released him the following night by leaving him on a branch tall enough for him to eventually try flying. I came back a half hour later and he was gone. Searched everywhere in case he'd fallen and saw nothing.

Sorry about your pigeon anon.

[Anonymous No.19607968]

>>19607658
>don't think, speak, or use language whatsoever
that would be you

[Anonymous No.19607970]

>>19607951
>I feel terrible for all suffering creatures. Everything you say is true.
may your soul find peace, anon. a man can bring any torment upon himself at his own will and be honored for enduring it, but animals who suffered for our good (or "good", as in vain rotten wars) posess the quality of an unassuming martyr.
in times like this, the contrast between natural violence and human violence is the starkest. an animal simply cannot be cruel to another being, they lack the ability for malice.

[Anonymous No.19607973]

>>19607949
my heart is with you, anon
have you read The conference of birds? it should be very comfy and calming

[Anonymous No.19607981]

>>19607635
animals live in pure bless free from anxiety and passions 99.9% of their lives and suffer maybe few minutes in death? I think they have it better than us
unless they are kept as torture pets for some evil humans

[Anonymous No.19607987]

>>19607970
I don't care for people anymore. I see how they treat those they consider lesser and I want nothing to do with them. The ur-victim is an animal.

[Anonymous No.19608001]

>>19607949
Animals live within their own time. It seems short an unfair for you, but for him or her, you provided comfort for the majority of their existence. You were the one constant they could rely on, no matter what.

[Anonymous No.19608015]

>>19607987
when i was a kid, mom said that a society is best judged by the way it treats the weak and responseless. invalids, elderly, orphans, animals.
now i understand this applies exactly the same to individuals. only the weakest and vilest would deliberately harm a lesser thing.

[Anonymous No.19608042]

>>19607970
>they lack the ability for malice.
Absolute bullshit. Animals can be as vicious as humans.

[Anonymous No.19608047]

>>19608042
Vicious, not malicious. Tigers may hunt for sport not out of sadism. An animal cannot will evil for evil's sake.

[Anonymous No.19608055]

>>19608042
not in a human degree or way. intelligent animals may cause a little mischief, especially around people, just to fuck with you, and certain predators like cats can maul prey because they find it exciting and then not eat it. the latter is more like exercising an instinct that intentionally causing suffering to take pleasure from it though.
an animal cannot host a visceral dislike for someone the way a person can, and wish them bad. animals are incapable of intentionally overdoing the violence with a premeditated goal of tormenting the victim. malice requires awareness and intention, and not just a fact of some violence taking place.

[Anonymous No.19608082]

>>19608047
Animals can be malicious and sadistic. What world do you live in? You should go outside more.

Fundamentally there is no difference between an animal soul and a human soul or essence/source / what ever you can philosophically reduce existence to (in the last instance before God). Difference manifests only in metaphysical hierarchy of the souls and the manifestation thereof in the material world. So the only difference between the suffering of an animal and a human is the material manifestion of the suffering not the nature/strain or difficulty of the suffering. Animals can suffer just as intensly as humans and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.19608085]

>>19607959
>>19607962
>>19607973
>>19608001
Thanks anons. I haven't read Conference of birds. Also guys he was a rescue. He couldn't fly, he'd have seizures. I thought he'd die in a few weeks but he lived a year and a half and until 3 days ago, he was completely healthy. Please don't give up on your animals. They can live long and happy lives despite what the vets say.

[Anonymous No.19608096]

>>19608082
Find me an animal serial murderer, and we'll talk.

[Anonymous No.19608099]

>>19608055
yes, they can. Some individual animals are extremely evil.

Monkies massacre puppies in India

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10320853/Enraged-monkeys-kill-Indian-towns-entire-population-250-DOGS-throwing-heights.html

>>>/pol/352662181

you guys are autistic sheltered nerds.

[Anonymous No.19608109]

>>19607658
fpbp

[Anonymous No.19608118]

>>19608055
Mate, big cats have been know to torture preys for hours. Dogs and wolves eat without caring to kill what they eat. Chimps will murder dogs by throwing them off roof as a hobby.
Malice can be caused as much by a lack of awareness as per awareness. That is the Law.

[Anonymous No.19608120]

>>19608096
Google sloth bear of mysore.

>The sloth bear of Mysore, was credited with killing 12 people and mauling another 2 dozen in predominately unprovoked attacks. Survivors often lost one or both eyes, and those killed by the bear usually had their faces entirely removed from their head, usually. Sick. This bear only partially ate three people, so he was pretty much killing just for the fuck of it.

ripped the faces off of 36 people in just three days.

[Anonymous No.19608128]

>>19608099
Yes, they are evil precisely to the extent they are more human-like. Thanks for proving my point.

Read Schelling you daft cunt.

[Anonymous No.19608131]

>>19608120
Yeah bro I don't think some bear killing a couple of peanut farmers makes him BTK.

[Anonymous No.19608157]

>>19608131
Osama the killer elephant
>for two years, a single male Asian elephant terrorized the villagers of Sonitpur, killing at least 27 people. The locals named him "Osama bin Laden" for reasons that are not abundantly clear. Osama preferred trampling or goring people to death. In one six-month period, he ran down 14 people in separate incidents. He also destroyed homes and businesses, melting back into the surrounding wilderness whenever search parties came looking for him.

[Anonymous No.19608159]

>>19608131
"Cobra Commander" who rushed and killed half a village
>went on a 10-day killing spree in the city of Birnin Kudu. While most snakes only strike when threatened, Cobra Commander just balls-out rushed people, one after the other. Humans may be big, but most of us have pretty terrible situational awareness once we're suddenly shot full of poison by a tiny, fast-moving animal, so the little bastard was able to strike and disappear like Solid Snake (pun absolutely and totally intended).

[Anonymous No.19608165]

>>19608157
>>19608159
A body count does not make you a serial murderer. If you ask me, every one of these animals is based.

[Anonymous No.19608188]

>>19608165
Your idol
>The Champawat Tiger was a female Bengal tiger responsible for an estimated 436 deaths in Nepal and the Kumaon division of India. Her attacks have been listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the highest number of fatalities from a tiger.

>This cat attacked during the day, while the Leopard of Rudraprayag attacked at night, sometimes busting down the doors of its victims like goddamned Leatherface and dragging them screaming into the darkness. All told, more than 1,200 men, women and children were killed by the gang over the course of three decades, establishing a legacy of terror that has yet to be equaled.

>Over those 30 years, Col. Jim Corbett of the British Indian Army was repeatedly dispatched to personally "resolve" the problem animals. He was able to bag all 33 of the murderous felines, starting with the Champawat Tiger.

go neck yourself subhuman. species traitor.

[Anonymous No.19608200]

I love animals and hate animal suffering but the moralfags who make it about animals being more “innocent” than humans are gay and annoying. But it’s equally asinine to say that any creature “deserves” to suffer for being vicious

[Anonymous No.19608242]

>>19608188
>species traitor
Proudly.

[Anonymous No.19608365]

>>19607635
I think about this every day, especially in the winter. There are a lot of wild turkeys that live in the woods near my house. Yesterday when I went for my walk by the river, I saw turkey tracks along the path with blood on one of the tracks with every step it took. The high temperature was around 8 degrees F, and it is only going to get colder for the next several months. And this poor motherfucker is out there walking through the snow with a bleeding foot. Absolutely brutal. And I'm someone that has hunted (which is far more ethical than eating meat you would buy in a store), so I'm not overly sensitive to this stuff, but it's fucked.

There is no cope. This is how life is.

[Anonymous No.19608399]

If animals were such good beings and nature was also so good, then we woudn't have fossil fuels. Nature is literally hell.

[Anonymous No.19608401]

I know for a fact the man-eating felines were all injured and/or starved to an extent that they were forced to try human flesh and then rely on it. The one that is one hell of a mindfuck and that one might argue was possibly acting on revenge was the Amur Tiger that killed 2 Russians. The first guy he killed, he'd been injured by him, possibly also had his boar kill stolen by him (guy was down on his luck, I think tiger coats were worth good money too), and then stalked him. Guy was reported to have been acting strange up until he was found eaten. My favorite book, The Tiger by John Vaillant investigates it. The tiger had already been injured many times by poaching attempts before this very last one where it appears he'd had enough.

I fucking love animals. I do believe we are animals too. And that we have a responsibility as the most intelligent and capable species on the Earth to prevent suffering as much as possible. I do think there are cases where the psyche of an animal can be complicated. I foster kittens for a local animal shelter, there is definitely the emotional and mental health of an animal that we must look out for and care for sometimes.

Friends, I'm not much good at expressing myself. But I hope these bits can add to your thinking of the subject. Jim Corbett was a very interesting man. He was called upon to hunt and end man-eaters. Later in life, he would call to keep these creatures from extinction and human-caused injury. He wrote a couple of books, most notably Man-Eaters of Kumaon.

Let's live nobly and treat our fellow man as well as our fellow Earthen creatures with respect.

[Anonymous No.19608494]

>>19608399
> fossil fuels is produced by natural predation.

[Anonymous No.19608592]

>>19607635
>If you don't have compassion for an animal you will never be a great writer and you don't belong to a literature board.

[Anonymous No.19608621]

>>19607907
AAAAAARRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGHHH
IS THAT A WORD I DON'T LIKE!!!? IS THAT ""SLANG"??
OOOOH I CANT, I JUST CANT EVEN!!!
D-DID THAT ZOOMER JUST SAY LUSH?? LIKE PLANTS??!! A NEW, EMERGING USE FOR A WORD AS MODERN CULTURE EVOLVES OUR DIALECTS?? ITS ALL TOO MUCH TO TAKE! NOT ON MY HIGH BROW LITERATURE FORUM! I REFUSE! I REFUSE! I AM FURIOUS AND REFUSE TO ENGAGE!

Not him but kill yourself fag

[Anonymous No.19608629]

>>19608592
>>19608621
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.19608642]

>>19608592
You're brown.

[Anonymous No.19608671]

>>19608642
So compassion for animals is necessary to be a civilized person, but not compassion for (ANY) brown people. Interesting.

[Anonymous No.19608676]

>>19608671
I have compassion for brown people. Also, you're brown AND illiterate.

[Anonymous No.19608685]

>>19608621
Hard to get mad at some little zoomer kid insulting you haha

[Anonymous No.19608707]

>>19608671
Animal empathy is literally ethnically founded. Only Brits, French, Japanese and a couple other people have any amount.

[Anonymous No.19608725]

I believe in reincarnation, so I know that however bad present suffering and indignity may be, we never have to give up on the dignity of any soul. There's always more that could be done and nobody is lost, even the birds and bugs and plants. So I pray every day that I won't be allowed to rest or move on to greater pastures or higher planes as long as any other soul is in a weaker or less privileged position than my human soul is. As long as any soul or group-soul of anything that could remotely be considered animate, latently animate, is suffering or lacking the same spiritual privileges and opportunities that I have in any way, I refuse to move on.

I don't care if I have to put off heaven forever, just to be the one friend of the bugs and rocks after the rapture or after the last bodhisattva has helped the last human being return to the Source. It's not fair that the way the universe emanated caused animals to tear each other apart, trillions of turtles to die for no reason just so a few could live, or that any being should ever have been merely instrumental to any other being. I don't know how exactly it works to volunteer myself to be friend to the bugs until they're liberated from samsara too but I can at least direct my will into it through prayer.

Of course the same goes for other humans but somehow I feel like you do, that they need less help. There's even a kind of glory in humanity's "story" of fallenness and redemption. It's easy to get so wrapped up in that narrative that we forget that we're stepping on blades of grass or casually enslaving the horse that carries us and the animals we are eating on our way to the narrative's conclusion.

[Anonymous No.19608728]

>>19608707
The first country ban vivisection was Nazi Germany.

[Anonymous No.19608849]

>>19608188
>species traitor
lol. are you 15? It's a total coincidence I was born human, just as it is a coincidence I was born in a certain place. Nationalist and specist are fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.19608861]

>>19608849
Utter nonsense. There is no "you" that could have been a different species. You were not some spirit floating around in the void and just by chance you became a human. You are a human and that is the only thing that "you" can ever be.

[Anonymous No.19608862]

>>19608592
Did I trigger you? Good. Your response shows why you don't belong here.

[Anonymous No.19608875]

>>19607635
The only solution is religious.
All animals experience a relatively positive rebirth after a life of struggle or suffering. It's only humans who experience a negative rebirth.
All sentient beings have Buddha nature and thus deserve compassion except for human beings, which sometimes deserve scorn depending on context.

[Anonymous No.19608880]

>>19608861
>species traitor mook is a materialist
Hilarious. Like clockwork.

[Anonymous No.19608882]

>>19608861
Point is that I don't care, being human doesn't mean I have to treat my species with favour a priori.
>There is no "you" that could have been a different species. You were not some spirit floating around in the void and just by chance you became a human.
and this you don't know for sure.

[Anonymous No.19608884]

>>19608875
>All animals experience a relatively positive rebirth after a life of struggle or suffering.

I truly hope every one of these creatures is somewhere else, far away from this demonic shithole.

[Anonymous No.19608889]

>>19608875
I wish I could believe this, or learn how to do it. Do you have any books recs on the subject?

[Anonymous No.19608891]

>>19607635
are there any good books written by sociopaths, that sounds interesting

[Anonymous No.19608892]

>>19608884
Animals don't have souls. They're born, die, and then are nothingness.

[Anonymous No.19608901]

>>19608892
It's you who doesn't have a soul, NPC.

[Anonymous No.19608913]

>>19608725
>volunteer myself to be friend to the bugs until they're liberated
bro...I agree with your general sentiment about being empathetic to all living things, but...you're entering schizo territory here. you are anthropomorphizing animals in a way that, if anything, is doing them a disservice.

[Anonymous No.19608917]

>>19608901
>If you don't pretend animals have souls and go to heaven you are an NPC
lol

[Anonymous No.19608941]

>>19608913
You don't need to anthropomorphize insects to have compassion for them.

>>19608917
Yes.

[Anonymous No.19608945]

>>19608892
>>19608917
I said npcs out of the thread, don't pullute the thread pls

[Anonymous No.19608947]

>>19608889
I had a religious experience where I spoke to Avalokiteshvara or Amitabha Buddha in a dream and he told me twice to read the Lotus Sutra. He also said the need and basis of compassion can still be defended in nondual frameworks -- something like that.
There's more going on in life than what we see. I guess I recommend Lotus Sutra alongside basic background in Buddhist philosophy.
All sentient beings will be liberated eventually. The reality is the man who sadistically harms an innocent man is, in fact, hurting himself more. The animal will have a positive rebirth but the man won't. He will have more rebirths before achieving Nirvana. Rebirth is true, but involves other dimensions too.
All beings will eventually be liberated. It's just a matter of time or "kalpas".

[Anonymous No.19608965]

>>19608941
friendship is not a concept that insects have. you can not be a friend to them. that is anthropomorphizing them. you can have compassion though, I agree.

[Anonymous No.19608979]

>>19608965
I agree that anthropomorphizing in real-world context is to be discouraged, but you have to also be careful of "anthropodenial", which refers to willful blindness to the human-like characteristics of animals or the animal-like characteristics of ourselves.
Also, anthropomorphic literature like Wind in the Willows can be great.

[Anonymous No.19608994]

Reposting due to typo
>>19608889
I had a religious experience where I spoke to Avalokiteshvara or Amitabha Buddha in a dream and he told me twice to read the Lotus Sutra. He also said the need and basis of compassion can still be defended in nondual frameworks -- something like that.
There's more going on in life than what we see. I guess I recommend Lotus Sutra alongside basic background in Buddhist philosophy.
All sentient beings will be liberated eventually. The reality is the man who sadistically harms an innocent animal is, in fact, hurting himself more. The animal will have a positive rebirth but the man won't. He will have more rebirths before achieving Nirvana. Rebirth is true, but involves other dimensions too.
All beings will eventually be liberated. It's just a matter of time or "kalpas".

[Anonymous No.19609016]

>>19607667
You could argue that their lack of inner dialogue makes them suffer more than humans in some ways. Human fears can be assuaged with words, they can reason their way out of their anxieties.

[Anonymous No.19609017]

>>19608979
I don't know if you are OP, but you might like to read books by David Abram such as The Spell of the Sensuous which are sort of similar to what you are getting at

[Anonymous No.19609018]

>>19608892
Someone who thinks like you will never go to heaven either.

[Anonymous No.19609032]

>>19609018
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.19609062]

>>19607658
Where do you think you are?

[Anonymous No.19609066]

>>19608892
Objectively wrong.

> Question:
> Do animals have souls like human beings?
> Answer:
> Animals have souls–and so do plants. Does this answer sound like something out of the New Age movement? Don’t worry–it isn’t. Rest assured we’re not saying animals and plants have souls like ours.

> The soul is the principle of life. Since animals and plants are living things, they have souls, but not in the sense in which human beings have souls. Our souls are rational–theirs aren’t–and ours are rational because they’re spiritual, not material.

> Animals and plants can’t do anything which transcends the limitations of matter. Although some animals seem clever, they don’t actually possess conceptional intelligence. They can’t, for instance, conceive of the abstract notion of justice.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-animals-have-souls-like-human-beings

[Anonymous No.19609076]

>>19609066
Did you finish reading it? It's just saying that animals are alive. Their "soul" (the article states) is not spirit but material and perishes at death, so they do not have an afterlife.

[Anonymous No.19609090]

>>19609076
Doesnt mean they don't have one. And that part was revoked by JPII in 1990.

[Anonymous No.19609097]

>>19609090
Ah yeah I forget that Catholic theology is mutable now and is whatever the current Pope says it is.

[Anonymous No.19609157]

>>19609097
Correct, and good.

[Anonymous No.19609160]

>>19609157
Proof that Catholicism is false

[Anonymous No.19609170]

>>19609160
> Our understanding of God's will cannot improve and evolve over time.
Retard.

[Anonymous No.19609173]

>>19609170
It can develop, it cannot evolve, which means a change from one thing into a different thing

[Anonymous No.19609187]

>>19609173
Actually I would want to even qualify the term "develop." It's more appropriate to say it can be clarified.

[Anonymous No.19609222]

>>19609170
>>19609173
>theists bickering about completely irrelevant theological nonsense take over another thread
who cares what animals' thetan levels are you tards. they are living things and should be treated with at least a modicum of respect out of basic decency and empathy.

[Anonymous No.19609224]

>>19609222
Of course they should. Humans did not eat animals in the Garden of Eden. That we kill and eat animals is a consequence of the world being corrupted by sin and death.

[Anonymous No.19609239]

>>19609224
Forgot my picture.

[Anonymous No.19609248]

>>19609032
it's anonymous, same as your citations

[Anonymous No.19609275]

>>19609222
Wrong.
Arcadia is our right and our destiny.

[Anonymous No.19609301]

>>19607635

You've been conditioned by your environment to be in the world and feel like a woman. The first step is to realize it.

[Anonymous No.19609303]

>>19609275
i have no clue in what sense you are invoking the term arcadia, but you got a bad attitude bud. apgyd

[Anonymous No.19609313]

>>19607667

Spot on. Humans not only suffer but do know they suffer and can extend it to their past memories and future expectations. None animal can do that as far as we know.

[Anonymous No.19609314]

>>19609301
>feel like a woman.
Fun fact : zoophilia didnt initially refer to a sexual attraction to animals, but to the (then seen as a female) mental illness of having too much empathy toward animals (although at the time, that could mean any).
It was essentially the equivalent to female hysteria.

[Anonymous No.19609315]

>>19609301
He said no NPCs.

[Anonymous No.19609322]

>>19609314
Americans are such sick, miserable creatures.

[Anonymous No.19609324]

>>19609313
>Humans not only suffer but do know they suffer and can extend it to their past memories and future expectations.
Not unique to humans.
>None animal can do that as far as we know.
Actually, we keep learning of more and more mammals and birds that can. For example, crows, elephants, whales & dolphins, and so forth.
Have you actually studied anything relating to animal cognition?
Anyways, not in the mood to discuss this. I have stuff to do.

[Anonymous No.19609342]

>>19609303
Arcadia is a (Catholic) pastoral utopia shared by animals and man alike. Wolves don't attack sheep, predation is done without suffering, everyone dies of old age after a meaningful, productive and happy life, nothing is wasted, etc...

[Anonymous No.19609360]

>>19607635
Horses and dogs are wonderful and based animals and because of our longstanding genuinely close and important inter-species relationship, we should do what we can to ensure they avoid needless suffering.

Other animals, especially livestock, are really only going to tug at your heartstrings until you spend any real amount of time around them and realize their general stupidity and obliviousness to their surroundings and circumstances. Certainly we should not go out of our way to make them suffer (really, only the evil go out of their way to cause suffering to any one or thing), and we should do what we can to reasonably ensure they do not suffer unnecessarily, but we should also recognize the significant gap between them and ourselves.

[Anonymous No.19609365]

>>19609314

And I can see how they were right, it's a very feminine thing to say for example "human gore doesn't affect at all me but animal suffering does". This absurd lack of empathy to your own kind (and its substitution for animal worshipping) can only be seen in a not very healthy woman.

[Anonymous No.19609370]

>>19608047
>An animal cannot will evil for evil's sake.
Tell that to our barncat who lies in wait to viciously swipe at and scratch up our aussie whenever he can. He is also an asshole to mice that he catches (playing with them while slowly killing and dismembering them). He is good at keeping down the rodent population that would otherwise get into all our feed, but I have no illusions about his general cruelty. It is inherent to his genetics so I do not particularly blame him for it, but the cruelty is nevertheless there.

[Anonymous No.19609378]

>>19609365
Humans are miserable, debased creatures.

[Anonymous No.19609388]

>>19609370
Haha it's so funny how you guys larp as big bad manly men but think you're hard because you slaughter defenseless herbivores, get nearly filtered out of the gene pool by eating plant-based diets, or think a cat is some murderous demon. What a story, Mark.

[Anonymous No.19609397]

>>19609388
I never claimed to be a big manly man, anon.

[Anonymous No.19609409]

>>19609342
cool story i guess. but it's not the real world. that's where i'm from.

[Anonymous No.19609424]

I love my cockatiel friend bros. This thread makes me glad that he's around, although I'm sometimes sad that he never got to experience a free life in the wild.

[Anonymous No.19609429]

The Rebellion chapter in the Brothers Karamazov discusses child suffering (and I think animal suffering as well but I could be mistaken).
The rebuttal to Rebellion then comes in the Elder Zosima chapters

[Anonymous No.19609458]

>>19609365
Nah, there was no component of not having empathy toward humans, just getting sent to an asylum because you cried for your doggo's death.

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.19609561]

True vegens are the only persons deserving to hold the world in their arms, and under their wings.

[Anonymous No.19609857]

How can you cope with human suffering but not animal suffering?

Human suffering is a lot more problematic. It also affects our psyche. And people around us. An animal agonizing on the middle of the Sabana for a few hours is not comparable to the pain of terminal cancer and the pain it causes to your family.

You are retarded nigga

[Anonymous No.19609907]

>>19609324
>Anyways, not in the mood to discuss this

What are you defending then? Fuck off, hippie.

[Anonymous No.19609948]

>>19607635
If you are sincere you are literally speaking to a den of literal Satanists. These people claim to be this or that but they are at the very best hypocrites, or more likely sadists who actively enjoy their degenerate contribution to human existence. I make a point of avoiding all replies to these threads. Get out of here. Actually if you harbor within yourself any of the Christian sentiments of piety, compassion, selflessness, forgiveness, rejection of vile lusts and the wiles of the world you must absolutely avoid browsing this website. If you do, browse a select few keywords and filter everything else.

[Anonymous No.19609964]

>>19607635

Most of the animals you are worrying about would kill you and or eat you without hesitation if it was pragmatic to do so.

[Anonymous No.19609971]

>>19609948

The OP literally said he can cope with Human suffering (like it was nothing or even deserved) but cannot do it when it happens to an animal, who's the "Satanist" then, you stupid fuck?

[Anonymous No.19609974]

>>19609971
You.

[Anonymous No.19609990]

>>19609964

At the end of the day these animal lovers are all about misanthropy and self-hate. Nothing else.

[Anonymous No.19609996]

>>19609907
There is definitive research showing several animals possess "theory of mind" and that they "can extend it to their past memories and future expectations". I didn't feel like discussing it at that time because I was sleepy, faggot. I'm not a hippy.
Also, I recommend Google each animal I recommended such as elephants, crows, whales, and dolphins with the word "theory of mind", which implies that cognitive ability you mentioned. Note, we are discovering even more birds and mammals with theory of mind like pigs and dogs.

[Anonymous No.19610011]

>>19609990
>noo not the heckin humanerinos!!
you're such a child

[Anonymous No.19610036]

>>19610011

What are you but a human being?

[Anonymous No.19610073]

>>19610036
You're asking such a question based on materialist/physicalist assumptions.

[Anonymous No.19610091]

>>19610073

No, in fact I don't agree with animal suffering just for the sake of it. My argument was against those who put them above human life as a manifestation of their self-hate.

[Anonymous No.19610115]

>>19610091
It depends on the human in question. There is more variability and when it comes to human beings due to the value systems they could adopt. Many human beings, in fact most, are worth less than even poop due to greed, deliberate ignorance, lack of compassion, and more.
When human beings embraced civilization, they took up responsibility for this Earth, yet they are destroying many ancient old-growth trees, large portions of the ocean, and much much more out of greed and delusion. We could write books on all of the environmental damage.
I wouldn't say it's a manifestation of self-hate in all instances. Much of the time it's a manifestation in acknowledging the human species **on average** as a failure. Averages don't speak for every single individual. If everyone were like me, for example, the world would be a better place. I should be absolute monarch of this world.

[Anonymous No.19610149]

>>19607635
Not Wanted on the Voyage by Timothy Findley. It's a satire of Noah's Flood and a major theme is the value of animal life.

[Anonymous No.19610215]

>>19609301
congratulations for the worst post in the thread bro. I guess you meant I'm sensible, yes indeed I am.

[Anonymous No.19610237]

>>19609857
yes yes you're special big boy, we know.

[Anonymous No.19610269]

>>19609971
I said human suffering can be eventually overcome, I didn't say it was nothing.
>>19609964
I don't give a fuck. It doesn't make a difference in my feelings.
>>19609990
certainly not self-hate. it's absolutely normal to hate humanity though, as an idea that is. Some humans are nice.

[Anonymous No.19610765]

>>19610215

No offense, what I meant was that every time I heard someone say they can tolerate human suffering more than that of an animal, they're either a woman or a very feminine man. Personal anecdote, I guess.

[Anonymous No.19610791]

>>19610765
It depends on the human in question.

[Anonymous No.19610798]

>>19609857
>he thinks he can speak of an animal's pain, let alone another human's

Let me know how you've inhabited another body because that would be a major scientific breakthrough.

[Anonymous No.19610799]

>>19607635
>Is there literature that can offer some unique insights about the suffering of animals or how to overcome it?
Peter Singer. Veganism is an important phase on the path to spiritual maturity, but all conceptual limits must be abandoned to arrive on the shore of enlightenment. You will accept their suffering or be consumed by it.

[Anonymous No.19610890]

>>19607635
Test