I've spent years reading philosophy, everything from Nicholas of Cusa to Sloterdijk. I finally want to knuckle down and read him. What would you recommend? No introductory stuff, and no lame translators.

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Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:44:28 2021 No.19536412 [Reply] [Original]

I've spent years reading philosophy, everything from Nicholas of Cusa to Sloterdijk. I finally want to knuckle down and read him. What would you recommend? No introductory stuff, and no lame translators.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:48:19 2021 No.19536432 >>19536412 start with the greeks

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:48:46 2021 No.19536437 >What would you recommend? everything

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:49:47 2021 No.19536441 File: 1.83 MB, 2342x6196, 0A7E2F21-43C0-45D8-9523-F47B043C174B.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19536412

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:50:43 2021 No.19536446 >>19536412 Read Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Schope, and the Bible. Start with TSZ

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:55:27 2021 No.19536469 >>19536441 What's the best edition of Zarathustra? Is it the Cambridge edition?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 15:55:33 2021 No.19536472 >>19536412 You read nothing, therefore you don't know jack shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 16:05:09 2021 No.19536525 >>19536469 Either read the German or read the Kaufman translation. Reading in translation will make it hard to notice wordplay and subtext

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 16:27:19 2021 No.19536632 >>19536412 If you have to ask, you should not start at all

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 17:58:03 2021 No.19537064 >>19536412 You still aren't ready.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 18:06:04 2021 No.19537102 >>19536412 Friendly reminder to end with schoppy and not with this delusional fraud

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 18:39:46 2021 No.19537235 >>19537102 Nietzsche is the overcoming of Schopenhauer's pessimism

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 21:55:17 2021 No.19538095 >>19536441 Damn Zarathustra last. I've only read Twilight, Anti-Christ and Zarathustra, but am finding it way more accessible then the other two.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 22:40:47 2021 No.19538302 >>19536412 Imagine lacking so much individual initiative you ask for people to tell you how to experience something. Also Freddy is fake and gay.

Anonymous Wed Dec 8 23:36:34 2021 No.19538532

>>19536441
Reminder not to Skip over on the psychological insights of his predecessors like machievelli, montaige, and francois de la rochefoucauld.
Also the reading order of the first 3 books should be Birth of Tragedy, On Truth and Lies in an Extramoral Sense, and The Dawn. From there go with your interests, but read Zarathustra last

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 8 23:54:29 2021 No.19538632 >>19538095 Zarathustra can be first if you're not a brainlet. It relies on metaphor and is not referential to the rest of his work. I read Beyond Good and Evil first, and nothing in it prepared me to understand TSZ

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 00:20:29 2021 No.19538744 >>19536412 Started reading Sloterdijk this past week. Do you have any insights? I’m reading his shit and it feels like he “gets it”

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 00:30:13 2021 No.19538775 >>19536412 he's a pseud. don't waste your time

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 00:35:20 2021 No.19538793

>>19536412
Der Will Zur Macht.
The reason is that it's just a collection of aphorisms, a précis for a great work he was never to complete, a series of exquisite notes striving toward the unification of his philosophy. He intended to be the summation of his thought, its final systematization. So you can find fragments of his entire thinking strewn throughout.

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 00:39:04 2021 No.19538802

>>19538793
Some of his most subtle ideas are in that book. There's no modern philosopher who comes close to continuing that project. Though I think if you read it first, you'll miss a lot of it because you'll still be tangling with the more elementary concepts

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 01:33:52 2021 No.19538931

>>19536412
Zarathustra is a lens that changes the aphoristic works, and a key to the very late ones. Primer influences of his:
>Stirner, Schopenhauer, Holderlin, Law of Manu
less common:
>Boscovich, Theory of Natural Philosophy
Major influence on will to power

Dithyrambs of Dionysos; PrePlatonics Lectures;-BOT-TSZ-GOM
Aphoristic works HAH-Gay Science
TSZ again, EH
On Truth & Lies ect., BGE-AC-TOTI

Correspondence and Notebooks. There are issues with the Will To Power collection, but it's better than nothing if you can't access the aforementioned in the original.

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 01:57:55 2021 No.19538981

>>19538793
>>19538802
>>19538931
Thank you

>>19538744
Like every great philosopher alive today, he builds on Nietzsche while taking him to task on other things (for Sloterdijk, his dismissal of asceticism). Read You Must Change Your Life. He's one of my favorites.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 01:59:11 2021 No.19538987 Also, are Heidegger's lectures on Nietzsche good? I've read parts and found them fascinating.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 02:36:30 2021 No.19539089 >>19538981 That’s what I’m reading right now actually

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 08:14:20 2021 No.19539908 >>19536412 it seems like you are doing things in reverse, friend. nietzsche is babby's first philosopher. not that he is terrible or anything, but it is pretty retarded to read something like sloterdijk before reading nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 08:32:07 2021 No.19539958 >>19538095 Z is notorious for being hard to understand. Surprising you think otherwise. I've never read it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 08:33:16 2021 No.19539960 >>19538931 Is there any evidence he read Stirner?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 08:47:16 2021 No.19540012 >>19539908 >nietzsche is babby's first philosopher my condolences to anyone who thinks this and even more condolences to those who actually started with him without ever going back

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 09:01:01 2021 No.19540052

I've kept N's aphoristic books in a little library by my toilet for many years, daybreak, human all too human, beyond good and evil, and my favourite the gay science. It's been extremely rewarding to (re)read, and more importantly digest, a few of his insights and jokes every time I shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 09:11:58 2021 No.19540084 >>19539908 >nietzsche is babby's first philosopher. Refining my own grasp on philosophy over years of study has only enriched him. There are no babby philosophers, there are no final boss philosophers. People who think like this don't read enough.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 09:41:55 2021 No.19540178 >>19540012 >>19540084 sorry to have offended you. nietzsche has this reputation because a lot of his stuff is very accessible and is actually a good read, easier to get into compared to some other big names that emphasize system building.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 10:05:37 2021 No.19540264 >>19540178 No, people say this because Nietzsche is a pseud. It's obvious he didn't actually read the philosophers and doesn't understand Christianity. He's basically the father of reddit thinking.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 10:06:54 2021 No.19540272 >>19540264 I feel privileged to live in a time where I get to actually read Nietzsche's Last Men try to dunk on him. Eat shit you fucking wanker.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 10:58:16 2021 No.19540490 >>19536441 i read TSZ first and i liked it it was pretty life-affirming desu

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 11:41:54 2021 No.19540679

Ordered Will to Power, Cambridge edition of TSZ, and Basic Writings from Modern Library. Reading the Dithyrambs now. I've dabbled in all these texts before and am more than familiar with the basic ideas but it'll be nice to read him after having done the work. Thanks /lit/.

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:21:26 2021 No.19541373
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>>19536412
To access Nietzsche's oeuvre fully, you cannot do otherwise but to research the Greek Mystery Religions, especially the Mysteries of Eleusis and Dionysius. Nietzsche wasn't an atheist. Dionysius was his god. But what exactly is Dionysius? That's why looking into the Mystery Religions is so important.

If you know Italian, you're lucky enough to be able to read pic related. Of all the literature I've read pertaining to this topic, this is the most informative BY FAR and its the closest we have to a "full" reconstruction of the Cult of Eleusis. The introduction by Angelo Tonelli is an absolute masterpiece.

Once you've acquainted yourself with this, Nietzsche's philosophy will "click" to its fullest extent. The idea of the Übermensch and the eternal return will unfold their fullest meaning once you know what Dionysius meant for Nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:27:07 2021 No.19541398 >>19536412 Just read zarathustra

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:39:39 2021 No.19541463 >>19540264 Part of what he says is true, though. Nietzsche's grasp of Christianity was severely lacking in ways both big and small. Also, it was heavily biased through a Lutheran/Protestant lens.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:41:32 2021 No.19541469 >>19536412 >No introductory stuff, and no lame translators. you're acting like you're doing anyone a favor by reading NEETzsche. fuck off back to the hole you came from, worm.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:44:06 2021 No.19541484 >>19541373 I don't know Italian. Mind sharing what you learned? >>19541469 don't you goofs ever get tired of yourself?

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:44:40 2021 No.19541488

>>19536441
kek this charter was made by some stirnerfag with the sole purpose of plugging "the ego and its own" to people who want to read nietzsche.
nietzsche has NOTHING to do with that pseud.
funny how the charter has that nobody who literally no one outside this board talks about but no mention of Ralph Waldo Emerson, who Nietzsche loved.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:45:00 2021 No.19541492 >>19536412 Nietzsche is the most straightforward philosopher I have ever read. If you don’t understand something he said then you aren’t going to gain understanding from a different book.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:45:40 2021 No.19541495 >>19540272 big oof bro, your entire country are last men

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:51:00 2021 No.19541526 >>19541495 I'm not an American or Br*tish. Nice try.

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 14:55:56 2021 No.19541556

>>19541484
It's a very complex topic, but the basic gist is this: underlying all reality there's a primordial principle, what Plato (who along with other big names like Aeschylus and Sophocles was an initiate btw) calls the Form of the Good, aka the One of the Neoplatonists. This principle emanates everything in existence and is transcendent and immanent at the same time. This is the unifying principle, the centre of the all. In the mystery religions it is identified with Dionysius himself, who is the archetype of the indestructible vital principle. Pain, death and misery are necessary results of the individualizing principle. identified with Apollo. along with pleasure, life, joy etc. Thus all of reality is nothing but the interplay of the unifiying and individualizing principle, the monad and dyad, Dionysius and Apollo, which is why both of those gods took turns at the Oracle of Delphi.

This is just a VERY simplyfied summarization obviously.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:02:26 2021 No.19541593 >>19536412 I say start with Ecce Homo and read about the writer first.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:03:34 2021 No.19541602 >>19541526 Hows that vaccine going bro, you safe and secure?

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:07:08 2021 No.19541620 >>19541556 Nietzsche would consider that entire concept of primordial principle shit just a manifestation of its narrator's will to power though

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:08:59 2021 No.19541632 >>19541620 But he posited one nonetheless, viz. the Will to Power.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:13:45 2021 No.19541657 >>19541556 Well like I said, I've been reading phil for awhile now, so none of this is new to me. But thank you. Not trying to sound arrogant. >>19541602 >a vaxxcuck wanting to read Nietzsche You must have mistaken me for these other pseuds on here.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:15:56 2021 No.19541668 >>19541632 It's not so much a universal principle as it is an interpretation of observable behaviour. Nietzsche himself says in GS it doesn't even apply to most lifeforms.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:17:29 2021 No.19541681 >>19541657 Sorry m8 but the government is going to tighten your sissy cage if you don't.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:32:27 2021 No.19541757 >>19541668 While the Will to Power in itself is not an universal principle, the thing out of which it arises is. That is what is Dionysus is for Nietzsche.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:46:18 2021 No.19541830 >>19541681 >thinks I live in some w*stoid shithole rat pit I shiggy, I diggy, I shiggy diggy doo.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 15:49:27 2021 No.19541846 >>19536412 hOW DO I GOW A MUSTACHE LIKE THAT??

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 16:06:10 2021 No.19541946

>>19541757
Nietzsche doesn't associate the Dionysian with any metaphysical category either, as it is entirely co-dependent on the Apollonian. He also explicitly states that these two are mostly manifested as artistic impulses which emerge from within the consciousness rather than as some displays of exterior objective reality, existence of which he doesn't acknowledge in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 16:20:16 2021 No.19542010 >>19541830 No, you just steal cars from them lmao

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 16:22:20 2021 No.19542021 >>19542010 better a free criminal than a slave wagie

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 16:31:05 2021 No.19542072 >>19542021 Hey don't I know it slavbro

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 16:36:26 2021 No.19542085 >>19542021 Until you are imprisoned.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 16:37:03 2021 No.19542087 >>19542085 Just kill as many cops as you can, last man.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 18:07:37 2021 No.19542573 >>19536441 There is no proof that Nietzsche ever read Stirner, as far as we know, he only knew of him because of Lange's History of Materialism.

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 18:35:17 2021 No.19542716

>>19540272
>>19541463
Nietzsche is the 19th century equivalent of someone who hates their parents for making them go to protestant bible study once a week. At the end of the day, anyone who rejects Christ is probably a midwit and quite frankly not worth reading.

Anonymous Thu Dec 9 18:37:25 2021 No.19542731

>>19542716
>[x] is the [y] equivalent of [z]...

there isn't a post on the internet with this template that wasn't written by a midwit. do you remember that story from the zhuangzi about the butthurt little cicada trying to dunk on a phoenix? of course you don't, you don't read.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 18:57:44 2021 No.19542835 Ecce Homo ; Zarathustra : ez to read Genalogie Der Moral: complicated sentences in german

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 19:31:20 2021 No.19542995 File: 418 KB, 600x600, 1627795091663.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19542716 >monotheist accuses atheists of daddy issues like pottery

>>	N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD Thu Dec 9 20:05:18 2021 No.19543161 Added to the /lit/ humour folder.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 21:30:22 2021 No.19543616 >>19537235 More like coping lmao

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 9 21:53:29 2021 No.19543734 >>19539960 No. He may have been vaguely familiar with him from Lange’s History of Materialism, but that’s it.

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