/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.19398060]

Highly Saturated Aivazovsky's Shipwreck Edition

Previous thread: >>19383012

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges
>Links: https://pastebin.com/i4RLYJEx

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
> Write a query
https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
> Track your query
https://querytracker.net/

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

[Anonymous No.19398118]

A journalist, a priest and the village idiot are meeting by a field one night to do some stargazing in the hopes of catching a meteor shower. Each of them tries to tell the others something strange.
The journalist talks about how ancient Romans built better, more durable roads than people today. The reason for this is that the capitalist system encourages poor workmanship so old things deteriorate more quickly and have to be replaced, leading to more work and therefore more profit.
The priest talks about how Jesus' foreskin was an important relic until a Vatican librarian began to argue the foreskin must have ascended to Heaven with Christ since he ascended bodily, and argued further that the foreskin became the rings of Saturn.
I haven't come up with what the village idiot should say talk about yet.

[Anonymous No.19398123]

>>19398118
you could change the village idiot to a dog and he tries to warn the priest and the journalist about aliens that are invading the earth but he can't because dogs dont talk

[Anonymous No.19398127]

>>19398123
The scene does mention a dog barking while the journalist and the priest are waiting for the idiot to show up (they shared a car, the idiot was supposed to drive a moped there) so maybe you're actually on to something here.

[Anonymous No.19398158]

>>19398118
A journalist, a priest and the village idiot walk into a bar. The journalist confesses to the priest that he wrote a news paper hit piece on the bartender which wasn't true. The priest reveals he was the one that commissioned the hit piece and forgives him.
The graceful bartender offers them drinks on the house: scotch, wine and beer respectively. The village idiot declines the beer and says "I'm canceling my news paper subscription ASAP. See you at mass, Father. "

[Anonymous No.19398164]

>>19398158
But anon, what about the dog and the aliens?

[Anonymous No.19398540]

I've been feeling a lot better recently and I haven't had the motivation to write.

[Anonymous No.19398659]

>>19398540
Open the document and get cleaned up and comfy if you have to. Lay out the things you've been thinking about and jump into a scene. Come up with a goal for the scene and see who shows up and how it turns out. It'll be fun.

[Anonymous No.19398677]

>>19398118
I moved to a different scene. The fat IT guy is testing to see if the old lady actually knows the Bible by heart like she claims. He started telling her Aesop's fables and claiming they were parables from the Bible.
Right now she's expressing her views that the viper from "The Farmer and the Viper" is Satan and the story is about how Satan will turn on all sinners in the end.

[Anonymous No.19398936]

Is anyone trying to get traditionally published? Why write if you’re not going to make money?

[Anonymous No.19398940]

>>19398936
I am. It's not working out too good so far.

[Anonymous No.19398945]

>>19398940
What type of book are you writing?

[Anonymous No.19398964]

>>19398945
Wrote one that was shit and nobody cared about it. Now I'm 2.7k words into one about two people's shifting religious perspectives and 12k words into a fantasy novel. Also writing short stories for practice.

[Anonymous No.19398973]

>>19398964
You need to write something commercial with a hook. Way too much competition today. You don’t need to be the best writer, you need to know how to tell a story and how to market that story.

[Anonymous No.19398979]

If you haven't already, read through this list of literary devices. If you're at work and can't write, jot down some terms you like and think about how you might use them. For example, I try to avoid low wit like sarcasm, wordplay and paradox.
You may find some of these aren't your style, especially the poetic devices, but understanding these techniques will help you in the long run. I've organized ones I like into toolboxes like Emphasis, Persuasion, Clarity, Emotion, Pacing etc. If I come across a technique I like but don't recognize it, I'll have to figure out what the writer's doing.

https://literarydevices.net/

[Anonymous No.19398980]

>>19398936
Not a demand I set for myself, but it would be nice. What writer doesn't want to be read? What writer doesn't need help with getting the word out about how brilliant his latest work is? Hasn't this place already agreed upon that marketing is what elevates a book from being an obscure book that is forgotten to a best-seller?

[Anonymous No.19398983]

>>19398973
>market that story
I would prefer not to.

[Anonymous No.19398989]

>>19398936
I want traditional publishing because I don't want to advertise it myself. God that would suck.

[Anonymous No.19399004]

>>19398983
Then how will you stand out in a sea of wannabes?
>>19398989
You still have to market yourself
Look at the authors on Twitter, IG, events, etc

[Anonymous No.19399015]

>>19399004
>how will you stand out
I was under the impression marketing is handled by the publisher. I can't afford that shit.
I'm being insincere right now, don't engage me and instead go back to writing like I intend to.

[Anonymous No.19399030]

>>19399015
Yes the publisher does marketing if they think you’ll be a hit, but low tier books barely get any
You need to do some promotion yourself. Not pay money but through social media

[Anonymous No.19399032]

>>19399004
You do have to still have all those things, but small publishers demand you do far more on your own. With a big publisher they can handle some of the social media themselves, set up events for you and provide publicists to get the word out effectively.

[Anonymous No.19399037]

>>19399032
Either way, a new author today cannot just sit and expect everyone to go buy their book. They need to show themselves.

[Anonymous No.19399043]

>>19398989
trad publishers don't often market either and they expect you to be active with social media, events etc. not always, but often. very few authors get to be thomas pynchon who does nothing but release a novel every so often.

[Anonymous No.19399049]

>>19399030
>>19399032
>>19399037
>>19399043
I guess introverted people are really not allowed to live anymore.

[Anonymous No.19399053]

>>19399049
You can do indie publishing on a big site and hope to attract subscribers for patreon or whatever, with regular updates and word of mouth.

[Anonymous No.19399056]

>>19399049
I’m a complete introvert but that doesn’t mean that I can’t hold a discussion about a book. post a picture of myself holding a book, etc. You just don’t want to show yourself. That’s different than introvertedness.

[Anonymous No.19399103]

>>19399049
>don't really like to get out much or get told where to go and what to do
>going to write a story that has Jews in it because I like the setting
>"Hey anon we thought it'd be great for your brand if you wear this yarmulke. We can take some photos in Israel next to the wailing wall."
>no sorry I don't really want to
>'Please reconsider anon, what would the media say about this?"
>Local Author is an Anti-Semitic Hypocrite
>lose next contract but get free advertising from the controversy

[Anonymous No.19399135]

>>19399049
Having a humiliation fetish goes a long way when it comes to faking being extroverted, look at Jason Bryan.

>>19399056
There is almost no reason to attach your own image to your book as a new author. Stop trying to mimic the marketing tactics of celebrity authors. No one wants to see Steven Boswell with his fat hand covering 35% of the stock image he used as a cover for Playtimes Consequence.

[Anonymous No.19399154]

>>19399135
It’s almost 2022. Things are different for new authors who have the burden of self promotion put on them. You could opt out but maybe more effort would have made your book sell better.

[Anonymous No.19399258]

>>19399154
People have been writing under pseudonyms since forever, what benefit does linking your own face give? You’re not marketable, chances are your love of reading and writing stemmed from loneliness that came from not being marketable.
If you care so much about following marketing techniques you have almost zero knowledge of then go for it, plaster your fat face all over your Amazon page. It didn’t help Steven Boswell and it won’t help you.

[Anonymous No.19399314]

>>19399258
You keep mentioning being fat. Are you fat?
If there are actual agents and publishers telling people to go get social media, why are you so delusional to think it doesn’t matter?

[Anonymous No.19399318]

>>19392258
I like this one; I'll be using it.

[Anonymous No.19399387]

>>19398936
I'm trying, but the crippling pressure of "is it good enough?" makes progress painfully slow. I can write tons if I'm just putting it online for free, but freeze when I think I have to impress some professional who goes through thousands of manuscripts every year. And my story isn't very "mature" in style either

[Anonymous No.19399468]

>>19399314
>You keep mentioning being fat. Are you fat?
There were a thousand far more witty ways you could have made that accusation. Maybe that’s why your writing is being passed over.
>If there are actual agents and publishers telling people to go get social media, why are you so delusional to think it doesn’t matter?
Because it doesn’t. Many of these agents and publishers are boomers who understand marketing about as much as you do. The days of treating brand new authors as celebrities or brands that need to be front facing and open are over. When you’re in a position where you need a blue checkmarked Twitter account with your goofy face on it you’ll know, until then worry about your writing. If you have to worry about advertising then throw $600 at 4chan for banner ads. It worked for Gardner and it worked for Son of the Sun guy (can’t remember his name), neither of whom ever had a book purchased because of how they look.

[Anonymous No.19399477]

>>19398936
I'm writing a story I want to tell and a story I'd read. I don't care about money and would rather keep it a commerical-free product. I already have a job, and don't want to turn something I like into a second chore having to worry if it'll make a profit if not. I'm writing it out if enjoyment because it means a lot to me to be able to present a story and have readers. That said, people won't read a series that's completely free and two books complete, what makes me think they would buy it if it costed money?

[Anonymous No.19399489]

>>19398936
Because no one here writes.

[Anonymous No.19399510]

>>19399468
I’m not trying to be witty. You just sound insecure about your own weight
I’m writing my first book so I haven’t even tried submitting yet
Have you?
Literally do not know any of the people you’re mentioning

[Anonymous No.19399513]

>>19398118
I have a shitload of jokes that I can't think up a punchline for:
A man on vacation in Mexico stops in at a small village tavern. He finds a stool and considers what to order, when the bartender sets a fancy cocktail on the bar, claiming it comes courtesy of the gentleman in the corner booth. The man looks over his shoulder, and sees a rooster sitting at the corner booth. He intends to shoot the bartender for telling such fantastic lies, when suddenly the mariachi quartet in the corner wanders over and seizes his attention with a song. The man is no fool, he immediately suspects a potential mugging and draws his gun, prepared to shoot. But the mariachi leader offers a simple explanation: they were sent courtesy of the man in the corner booth. Again, the man looks towards the corner booth. The rooster remains motionless on the bench, betraying no hint of subterfuge or even comprehension. And now there is a tug on his shoulder. A twitchy, emaciated young woman plastered with make-up and noxious perfume, is now offering to suck his dick for a few pesos. The man sighs, reaching for his wallet, when suddenly the woman points to the back booth and says-
Maybe something about cock? I don't know.

[Anonymous No.19399526]

>>19399510
You could have opened by telling me how new you are, would have saved me a couple hundred words.

[Anonymous No.19399531]

>>19399526
Oh so you’re probably a flop

[Anonymous No.19399565]

>>19398936
Yes, I am. Queried 12 agents so far. Going to query all of them until I get a bite. And in the meantime I'm going to start working on the next manuscript. I won't relent until I am published.
>>19398989
this. not on social media and refuse to be. it's cancer. i won't spend an hour on marketing when i could spend an hour writing or reading materials.

[Anonymous No.19399635]

>>19399565
Interesting.

What did these agents say to you?
Where you presenting a finished book?

[Anonymous No.19399644]

>>19399635
>Where
were

I've been drinking

[Anonymous No.19399674]

Is there anything more pathetic than being a writer? It’s the most low effort path through life. You put pen to paper and there you are, a writer. No training, no tests to obtain a credential. Just doing it like a dog shits on the grass. What’s the point? I suppose that’s why they make no money.

[Anonymous No.19399685]

>>19399674
There are writers who make shit loads on Patreon though. They're not common but they do exist.

[Anonymous No.19399715]

>>19399674
>It’s the most low effort path through life
It takes a huge amount of time and effort to write a book, and then you only get paid at the end of the task - if people like it. You have to be very talented to get people to actually pay for simple text on a page.

Anyone can write, almost no one can be a writer.

[Anonymous No.19399718]

I've got a great idea for a novel. Its set in the 19th century Tsarist Russia. Theres a landlady, and a crazy tenant that kills people and justifies it with philosophy and theology. Everybody is fucking miserable and the whole town is a simp for a 7/10 daughter of a general or something

[Anonymous No.19399727]

>>19399718
TAKE MY MONEY

[Anonymous No.19399770]

>>19399635
Dunno bro I just sent them over the last 2 days
>finished book
obviously

but fuck me when an agency has a catalog full of schlock i just close the tab.

[Anonymous No.19399797]

>>19399565
very cute yona, it would be a shame if someone patted her on the head

[Anonymous No.19399832]

>>19399718
>Justifies it
One of the points is that he breaks because he can't.

[Anonymous No.19400183]

I need to write an entire chapter (not exactly) of fiction (not limited to science fiction or fantasy) until wednesday and all I've wrote ever was only a small description of how my afternoon was.
Now where do I start? Speak it!

[Anonymous No.19400197]

>>19400183
Well, you seem to have some trouble with this, describe them using a stand-in as a protagonist.

[Anonymous No.19400215]

>>19400197
Thanks, this doesn't help me in anyway.

[Anonymous No.19400268]

>>19400215
Take your day and describe it, including your trouble with writing. Then edit it to be fiction.

[Anonymous No.19400293]

>>19400268
Ah, I see. That's more helpful; genius if I may say. Thanks, man.
I'll post my story here if I am able to finish it by wednesday.

[Anonymous No.19400345]

I've been doing research for a novel for the past few months about a 30-year-old perverted fuck who travels from Boston to France in 1899 for l'Exposition Universelle de 1900 in Paris. Includes a lot of historical figures who were present at the exhibition. I haven't that many themes yet but a lot of my research has drawn me toward Antisemitism and prostitution in early 20th-century Eastern Europe.

[Anonymous No.19400360]

>>19400345
Any amount research into any subject will lead you to antisemitism. It's natural.

[Anonymous No.19400395]

>>19400360
I mean to say it isn't a far-fetched connection here. L'Exposition happened the same year Dreyfus was forced to admit his mock-guilt by the Third Republic's government after 6 years in prison.

[Anonymous No.19400640]

Where the fuck did my creativity go anons? I want it back.

[Anonymous No.19400659]

Make my first book free or charge it like $0.99?

[Anonymous No.19400724]

>>19400360
this.
t. history enthusiast. the more i read the more i conclude that hitler was right. cant go 30 years without jews getting up to hijinks. reading a random book on whatever the fuck and bam, right there in the background, a mass jew expulsion for coin shaving or usury or corruption or market rigging or other semitic tricks. over and over again. pick something up at random, preferably written before 1980.

i cant bring myself to write about jews at all, not even to mention them in the background. it would just open the floodgates and i would get blacklisted from the industry and sued by the adl. every fucking time
writing historical fiction is suffering

[Anonymous No.19400831]

>>19400183
there's this story about a dog that needs to warn the humans about an alien invasion, but the dog can't speak

[Anonymous No.19400842]

How unique are authors' voices when it comes to writing? If under different pseudonyms or ghost writing, is it easy to find out who wrote it from their writing style alone? I don't want my ghost lemon/furry commissions to follow me if I'm lucky enough to gain a small following.

[Anonymous No.19400851]

>>19400831
I'm listening, proceed.

[Anonymous No.19400852]

>>19400724
There's plenty of things in the Old Testament of the Jews loathing about their own corruption. From Exodus, Kings, Jeremiah, and many other stories. The history regarding Israel vs Judah is significant, as well as relationships with Samaritans (Israel after it fell), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians. Some psalmists even wrote songs about being disheartened because some people they worshiped at the temple with were more evil than who they considered their enemies. Said worshipers were subverting defense within the wall.
It's pretty much the only way to address the topic of corruption without being accused of antisemitism.
I do know there was a play about Queen Athalia that was written in France. She ordered guards to kill all the child heirs to the throne, but one was hidden in the temple by priests. When he was of age, the people immediately overthrew her and killed her in the street. Not exactly one about other nations, but it was that kind of madness as well as blackmailing people with devil worship in their own country and others that had nations lash out against them. God explicitly warned them in Exodus about that, even going so far in Deuteronomy to swear that they would do it again and demanded Moses write a song about it.

[Anonymous No.19400864]

>>19400852
i've read josephus's the destruction of jerusalem. i dont knw what the fuck it is about jews, if there's something in their character or what that drives them to be such hateful, malicious, loathsome creatures time and time again, every country and every era. just what the fuck is it with them. every other race of people i understand, but jews are just wrong, you have to conclude they're genetic evil. the few decent jews we get figure that out and become the biggest anti-semites. there is just something wrong with their genetic character.

[Anonymous No.19400866]

>>19400724
that's because the jew's religion is literally a supremacist genital mutilation cult that also requires their slaves be subjected to circumcision as well, which is why the practice is so ingrained in muttstan.
so unfortunately there's no getting around it: the thing they worship is evil incarnate and they are evil incarnate. if you hate evil you have no choice but to be antisemitic

[Anonymous No.19400890]

>>19400851
Well, the dog can't speak because its a dog. But for some reason its smarter than the average dog - maybe because the dog was an alien abduction victim in the past that had been experimented on? Maybe. And now the dog needs to let the humans know.

[Anonymous No.19400909]

>>19400890
Sounds interesting. What's the name of the book?

[Anonymous No.19400913]

>>19400866
>the thing they worship is evil incarnate and they are evil incarnate. if you hate evil you have no choice but to be antisemitic
shikataganai, boku wa nazi nachatta

[Anonymous No.19400926]

>>19400842
Anyone?

[Anonymous No.19400984]

>>19400864
My hypothesis is that it has a lot to do with their culture focusing on holiness. This set-apartness may have a tendency to secret clubs and inevitable blackmail and corruption.
The other aspect is that God had said of the Hebrews that they were a "stiff-necked people." Consider that they were slaves in Egypt for many generations, enjoying dainty food and semi-luxury. Then they lived as nomads in the desert and always thought back to Egypt instead of listening to God because they wanted life to be the way it used to be. They would create false gods just to do this. They'd stone prophets who told them to turn back.
I still need to think more about how the corruption always re-establishes. It's like there's a blueprint, or some outside force that keeps compelling them to turn against God. If it's not the devil, it's some remnant that always swoops in for power. From a New Testament perspective, it's said the Jews as a nation are an example to us of what we can become if we turn against God. I am inclined to believe that there is a corruptible nature inherent to all of us though and I find it naive to think if there were no Jews that life would change.

[Anonymous No.19400994]

I'm super fucking picky about the prose I use / the prose I read. So much so that it's actually affecting my ability to enjoy stories. I'm just so fucking sick of seeing
>"He did this and that thisingly."
Any book recommendations and help?

[Anonymous No.19401030]

>>19400842
Writing voice changes over time as people change. The voice is subtle. We notice it but we can't always put in words exactly put it into words. Different vocabulary, pacing, syntax and other literary devices give a shape and texture to the prose, so we can feel when it's different. I wouldn't try to guess who wrote something base solely on voice, though revisionist historians have tried to do so solely on that basis.
To me, voice is like the fingerprint of your writing. It is unique to you.

[Anonymous No.19401102]

Looking for critiques on this small piece I just wrote.

[Anonymous No.19401114]

>>19400994
>get told to read 100+ books in my genre
>struggle to find more than a dozen titles that aren't utter garbage
I suffer. I hate agents so much it's unreal.

[Anonymous No.19401181]

>>19400864
The Talmud states it quite clearly that they believe themselves to be superior to goy, so when they're committing crimes against humanity they're just properly following their religion which states that they should be doing these things.

[Anonymous No.19401190]

>>19401102
>stickynote
bro?

[Anonymous No.19401271]

>>19401114
What genre? That sounds ridiculous, I've heard plenty from genre fiction writers and I don't think agents expect that much. Editors usually read way more than even authors.

[Anonymous No.19401456]

>>19401271
it wasn't genre-specific. it was some agent on their blog, but apparently this is a regular consensus. they used the figure 100 books. that's probably not reasonable though, so i dont think it is meant to be literal.

i mean, if you read 100 books a year that is at the top of the realm of plausibility. so which would make a better writer: reading 100 books of any quality in only 1 genre, so they can shit out regurgitation, or reading 100 good books across several genres so they can be more well rounded and have a higher standard of literary taste? would you even want to read say, a detective novel, written by someone who read 100+ detective novels and nothing else? i think the result would be poor. (i dont write detective novels.) it might be that advice like this is what is causing the incestuous degradation of literature.

[Anonymous No.19401467]

>>19401102
This is shaping up to be the next Hogg. You should get in touch with Sam Delaney's agent.

[Anonymous No.19401808]

Time for me to torture you fucking fucks.
Dinner was nice. The food wasn’t as good as the bosses in the Machines Works enjoyed but it was an improvement over the usual mess hall fare. Even the company he kept seemed more agreeable than he feared. Yurzan and Bigrummar, although they disliked Hozza for speaking against the Dread Lord, were friendly enough to Hozza’s War Party.
Glum at one point whispered in Tad’s ear: “they’re just trying to get us to join their team, and it’s working with Gotta.” At first, Tad couldn’t believe they’d do that; they’d opposed the two goblins being recruited by Hozza so how could they possibly want them in the War Party? However, after a dozen gushing compliments of Tad’s military prowess at capturing half the invaders or about the squad of scouts from the north who know followed him, he realized that much had changed since he was first brought into Hozza’s War Party.
Much had changed since dinner, though. Tad wasn’t exactly sure when the mood had changed at the other table, where the Ayara sat with the other invaders. Suddenly, the Dread Lord was angry and interrogating Bigrummar about his golden feather. After that the guests were quickly dismissed. Ayara had lingered at the door and reached out to Tad before the big guy elf pushed her out.
The servants of the Dread Lord remained inside, including Hozza. Perhaps reflecting the wraith’s mood, the chandeliers’ light burned cast a furious red on the banquet room. The Dread Lord, arms pinched behind their back, approached Bigrummar. The troll had been thrown by him as effortlessly as a small bag of nuts and bolts and collapsed as hard as an un-greased machine. Slumped against the far wall, the stone cracked from his impact, he was still shaking his head, dazed, when the Dread Lord grabbed him by the neck. Although the wraith stood shorter than a troll—only about as tall as Hozza—their arm was able to stretch an unnatural distance. As it did, cords of black dangled off the bones, bits of it landed on the carpet and sizzled away. Bigrummar was dragged upwards, the scraping of his flesh against the stone sounding hot and bloody. He could barely moan as the Dread Lord’s grip around his neck strangled him.

[Anonymous No.19401815]

>>19401808
“I’ve not had to deal with the World of Light in ages, and you made me seem a fool when I finally did,” the Dread Lord’s voice had a painful rasp that felt more like it was uttered from somewhere in your mind instead of their mouth.
Without any preview, the Dread Lord released Bigrummar. He rotated as he fell and landed face-first, his knees bent against the wall behind him. The whole room shock as though rocked by a nearby clap of thunder. On the dining table, plates still laden with food rattled and wine glasses toppled, spilling their sweet drinks onto the floor.
“You should be beating yourself senseless, mighty Dread Lord Withering Sorrows,” Hozza taunted, the word mighty being said to imply anything but. He stood tall and firm, the way he’d been described facing Grossum.
“The fool,” Glum said, his voice low. He placed himself between Tad and the Dread Lord, even though the little goblin hadn’t garnered any attention from the raging wraith. With occasional glances over his shoulder the elder goblin began backing his way toward the door, pushing Tad along with him. Yurzan spotted their surreptitious retreat and began inching along with them.
“How was he supposed to know that the Golden Pheasant was to be protected rather than slaughtered? That it was a messenger from the World of Light? I only know such things because of T’loran’s instruction! Do you think the other Dread Lords leave the forces so ignorant?” He pointed at the wraith. “You can rage all you want at Bigrummar’s mistake but that won’t change the fact that fault lies with you.”
His face buried in his hands as he tried holding back blood gushing from his nose, Bigrummar mumbled some words with only “thanks” being clear. In contrast, Gotta implored his War Master to apologize to the Dread Lord.
“Silence, whelps,” Withering Sorrows said. With one swoop the Dread Lord pulled up Hozza by the collar of his shirt and swung him around to throw him across the banquet table. The momentum carried pushed Hozza down the table, pushing off the tablecloth, plates, food, candelabras, and everything else to the floor.

[Anonymous No.19401821]

>>19401815
Duty compelled Tad to try and rush to his War Master’s side but Glum held him back, keeping him near the door and the supposed retreat it offered. “Stop,” his old boss ordered.
“I won’t deny you’re one of the better War Masters to serve me,” the Dread Lord said, their voice cold, as they strolled towards Hozza.
The orc was dazed, splayed on the floor and trying to untangle himself from the cloth, shattered dish ware, and leftovers dripping all over him. Awareness came to him when the Dread Lord raked its fingers, now capped with fearsome claws, across Hozza’s chest. Shirt and flesh tore together, a clump landing with a wet thud nearby. Hozza looked down at the wounds for just a moment, which allowed the Dread Lord to punch him on the top of his head, dropping him to the floor.
“You’ve also been among the most infuriating. Perhaps you thought your achievements would protect you from my wrath? No, it was only my respect for the Doctor that kept you safe. Were it no for his instruction your rebelliousness would have been beaten out of you. With him gone, I think it will be best to end your life along with your attitude,” the Dread Lord bent forward, learning in close to Hozza. They stared each other in the eyes. The wraith slipped its hand under Hozza’s chin, dragging razor nails across his throat as it tightened its grip, and began strangling him.
“Please, Dread Lord, spare the War Master,” Gotta was on his knees as he groveled. “I’ll keep him from speaking against you any more!”
“No matter. You’ll be dead, too.” Just as the Dread Lord looked back toward Hozza the warrior orc snatched up the Wraith’s Edge, freshly freed from the box of enchanted lures, and tried to thrust that handsome weapon of black stone flecked with gold into Withering Sorrows’ temple. Instead, the dull blade rested against the skull, Hozza’s wrist bent along the handle of a dagger that refused to plunge.
“The Wraith’s Edge only works when wielded by an immortal. That means a wraith.” The Dread Lord snatched the weapon from Hozza’s hand and touched its tip to his right shoulder. A web of red light spread under his skin, stretching across his chest and down to his wrist. Then the web erupted, making a complex criss-cross of cuts where the red shone. Hozza yelled out, at first low keening that rose as the pain set in. The Dread Lord held the knife against him, moving it slightly, delighting as new wounds appeared to trace its movement.
“Look away,” Glum covered Tad’s eyes.

[Anonymous No.19401823]

I think the term art is a very strong word. You can produce artifacts or sounds that have a beautiful aspect to them but they might not evoke such vivid emotion as to be considered to be "art" and I think that many people use the term art very lightly to refer to things that aren't really, it gets thrown lightly as a term used in marketing campaigns for popstar tours, video games, sports skills.

I'm not devaluing the merit of anyone, if you like what you like and it moves you then good for you but there are objective standards for these things. I've noticed people online like to attribute to their favourite writers or musicians these abilities that they perceive subjectively but aren't really there. There are websites where the people will go on and on about how death metal is the same as Wagner which is just not true, or how a vastly popular author is literary. The talent required to write something that achieves massive popularity might very well possess literary traits and I'd say it's even likely that the things we call literature tomorrow are extremely popular right now. I just don't know what.

Long ago I saw a video proclaiming the death of the artist as a genius in favour of the 'creative entrepreneur' who is basically an influencer. Will it be the righteous pedants of tomorrow that overlook some starving songwriter in favour of Kanye West because he reflected the "spirit of the moment?" have I just no brains to tell?

[Anonymous No.19401828]

>>19401821
The boy knew it was no good. He would be experiencing all of this himself soon. It seemed a waste, after he’d stopped so much killing during the invasion, to meet an end worse than of those he couldn’t save.
The doors to the banquet hall were thrown open. T’Lorn stood at the precipice. Behind him the invaders from the World of Light were gathered, Ayara holding the staff which Chrincha carried back in the library.
Tad and Glum were toppled and Yurzan jumped back. As Tad helped Glum to his feet, he heard Ayara whispering “over here.” Tad tried to push his boss toward her, but he felt the Dread Lord’s eyes on them and froze.
“What is this?” The dread lord rose, letting Hozza collapse on the floor, shuddering in pain as the countless cuts littering his skin oozed onto the carpet. As the wraith approached T’loran, it flung the dagger away. The dagger’s tip struck the soft carpet and it flipped into the air, landing noiselessly by Tad’s feet. Although he was hesitant, Tad bent to pick up the weapon, now harmless since it wasn’t held by an immortal wraith.
“Put that down, boy!” Glum thwacked Tad’s hand with his cane. The pang from the screw’s metal head made Tad drop the dagger and its dull blade touched his toes. He hissed in anticipation of anguish for only a moment before realizing it did him no harm. “If I have it the Dread Lord can’t use it to hurt Hozza anymore,” he told Glum as he picked the dagger back up. He hoped his boss wouldn’t insist and sully his brave gesture.
Glum snatched Tad by the wrist and pulled him along in a retreat from the Dread Lord who was approaching the doorway. As Tad looked back, he saw no worry on T’loran’s face.
“Dread Lord Withering Sorrows,” T’loran clasped his hands together as he addressed the skulking wraith. “I implore you to exile your servants for their failings. If you would … I could take them away from here. All of them. There is a place I remember outside of Yendell where their kind can live peacefully.”
“That was never the agreement, T’loran. I only said you bringing that orc of yours,” Chrincha said from the shadows behind T’loran.

[Anonymous No.19401839]

>>19401828
“In the end, the songs would have verses of my weakness for letting these foolish beasts get away with their incompetence, Doctor. I can’t allow that,” the Dread Lord said. Their voice had a hollow resignation to it. One declaring a duty that conflicted with their belief.
“No! The song would be of your mercy! Won’t the makers marvel at the Dread Lord who allowed their servants to live on, despite their folly, rather than continuing its sad story of suffering and domination? Yours would be a tune that would soar among the others!”
Tad wondered if this was how Hozza implored his fellow orcs to turn against the Dread Lord the night they met in Drink Town, before Yurzan nearly killed him in a fight. He hoped T’loran would be more convincing.
Gotta helped Hozza to his feet. He didn’t seem concerned as the War Master’s blood smeared his chest when he leaned against him for support. They exchanged some words, lips close to ears, and Hozza shook his head in response to a question Tad couldn’t hear.
The Dread Lord stared down T’loran an uncomfortably long time, the occupants of the banquet hall frozen in fearful anticipation. “Your great Yendell has seen more years than most Dread Lords, Doctor T’loran.” He spoke the elf’s title with a venom that made it seem an insult. “Do you think it achieved that by being merciful? Do you believe they seek to show your former pupil mercy rather than ensure her destruction?”
It was then that T’loran’s confidence wavered. That warm smile replaced by tight puzzlement. He looked away from the Dread Lord, at the Lieutenant by his side.
“You’ve always been a naive one, T’loran. Do you really think they’d go through such effort if all they wanted was for you to advise them on negotiatiating with the Sorceress? You’ve no experience in business or politics! What you are is a weakness they can exploit to capture or kill her,” the Dread Lord said.
“I would never be her assassin,” T’loran spat at the Lieutenant.
“You wouldn’t have to be.” Chrincha’s smile lacked mirth.
T’loran huffed, seeming as close to violence as Tad imagined the elf would ever some. Rather than strike the Lieutenant he looked to the Dread Lord. “I apologize, old friend, for thinking I could leave. I request to stay here, with you, and continue—“

[Anonymous No.19401847]

>>19401839
“I am sorry, too, Doctor, but the time for that will soon be past.” The Dread Lord lashed out. Black tendrils marked by ribbons of light wrapped around Hozza’s neck. They choked the orc as they lifted him into the air. Gotta grabbed at his War Master’s hand to hold him back, but he relented and dropping to his knees, his head hanging low. “I will do what I must do. After, I will have my servants box up your belongings and send them to Yendell. Perhaps in another thousand years you can find your way back to me,” the Dread Lord spoke with dispassion—like a goblin rattling off inventory counts—as he snatched up Hozza and began to squeeze the life from him.
“Oh, no.” Glum released Tad’s hand. “We can’t … there’s nothing …” His mouth hung open as he laid into his cane, his strength disappearing along with his hope. Something in his eyes brightened and with renewed vigor he began a rapid shuffle toward the dining table. Tad followed him along, still dragging the Wraith’s Edge with him. Somewhere behind, Ayara shouted for Tad again while T’loran collapsed into a whimpering beg similar to Gotta’s. Like the orc, he begged for the Dread Lord to spare Hozza’s life. On the opposite side of the room, Bigrummar had gotten to his feet and stumbled around, listlessly awaiting his death or just too dazed from his broken nose. He called for Yurzan, who looked about in a panic, pinned near the banquet hall doors by the raging wraith in between.
“Glum, Glum,” Tad repeated, breathless, as he struggled to keep up with his elderly boss’s race to the heap of contents by the end of the table.
Glum wobbled as he dropped on his left knee, holding the rest of himself up against his right arm and the cane. When he rose, he turned, the cane spinning as he pivoted against it. In his left hand he held the purple pouch of the eggfinity. “Tad! Use this,” he urged the boy as he held the item out to him.
Tad kept his eyes locked on his boss as he took the pouch from him. The dagger still hung from his other hand. He looked down at the pouch resting against his palm.

[Anonymous No.19401852]

>>19401847
“Turn yourself to stone! Then the Dread Lord can’t hurt you,” Glum laid his hand over Tad’s, crushing the velvet with his fingers, feeling the cold stone unyielding inside. “Maybe in a couple of thousand years some other Dread Lord will figure out how to free you and … and …” He pushed closer, abandoning his cane and pressing against Tad, their hands—clutching the eggfinity—being pinched between their chests. “Tad, I don’t know what will happen … but it’s better than you dying here. At least there will be a chance,” the old goblin spoke between sobs. He was looking at the scene by the door, at the Dread Lord choking Hozza to death as T’loran and the others looked on, helpless.
Tad could only see the pile of food and dinnerware at the end of the table. The carpet there was marred by Hozza’s blood, when the Dread Lord tormented him with the Wraith’s Edge.
With a gasp, Tad pulled away from Glum. “I can … I think I can help!”
“Help?” Glum almost fell over, but Tad caught him and lifted up his boss’s toppled cane with his foot. As the older goblin took it and straightened himself he watched Tad warily as the boy held up the dagger. “Don’t be foolish! It only works in the hands of an immortal!”
A smile broke out across Tad’s face as he turned the dagger around in his hand. It was heavy, but better balanced than that awkward shiv of Yurzan’s. He bent his arm, pointing the end downwards. Maybe his Ottis story was wrong about a goblin being able to carry an orc’s sword but would anyone have accepted him wielding a wraith’s weapon? He turned.
The Dread Lord wasn’t even using their hand to hold Hozza aloft as it strangled him. Instead, it seemed a coiled, writhing mass of black being used like an arm. Hozza kicked and sputtered, gripping the wraith’s massive appendage so tight his fingers sunk into it.
Everyone was too focused on the impending murder to notice the young goblin charging toward the Dread Lord, one hand holding a knife and the other wrapped around a velvet pouch. Tad stopped at the base of the wraith, where the inky, formless body met the carpet. It was hot there, like being in the Furnace Works. Simple breathing made Tad parched. He gulped down air, his heart racing, but exhaled with the realization he wouldn’t need to breathe as a statue. He waded in among the writhing tendrils. They moved around so much he wouldn’t dare waste his one strike on them.

[Anonymous No.19401860]

>>19401852
He pushed forward, ignoring the whipping limbs and searing heat being so near the enraged Dread Lord. He held the dagger up with one hand and rubbed his thumb along the mouth of the pouch, wary not to let it slip inside and touch the stone egg.
One of the serpentine limbs struck Tad across his forehead. He stumbled and uttered an instinctive “ouch.” He immediately tightened his lips with an embarrassed grimace as he froze in place.
Withering Sorrows set Hozza down. The orc gasped in relief. With the whole of the room caught by a sudden, oppressive silence, the Dread Lord turned about and bowed so that Tad found himself staring into the wraith’s eyes of embers. “What do you think you’re doing, little goblin?”
“Reasearch for my Ottis Tale,” Tad answered. He tipped himself forward. Just as he was on the balls of his feet his thumb felt the cold, smooth surface of the Eggfinity. His last thought, as the stone overcame him, was—

[Anonymous No.19401890]

>>19401823
>Starts off saying “anything can be art” (give the example of some unspecified noise).
>Proceeds to bitch that those damn kids just don’t art like they’re supposed to.
OK, Boomer.

[Anonymous No.19401903]

>>19401808
GRRM you fat lazy hack shit go finish winds of winter

[Anonymous No.19401904]

>>19401860
So in my original draft, once Tad turns to stone to strike the Dread Lord, I continue the chapter once Tad is revived after the battle with the Dread Lord (like Bilbo getting knocked out during the battle of the five armies). Should I instead switch to different POV characters to show the battle?

[Anonymous No.19401910]

>>19401903
My writing is that bad? I shall seppukku.

[Anonymous No.19401952]

>>19401904
no. if you feel you need more action put more description of the battle before he gets knocked out

[Anonymous No.19401977]

>>19401952
That was all of the battle. Before that was a dinner party.

[Anonymous No.19401988]

I've been noticing storytelling elements more(such as revealing character) a lot more and a lot of it seems heavyhanded and obvious to me. Am I just getting better or are most writers bad at being a bit more subtle?

[Anonymous No.19401996]

>>19401456
That's true about the reading good books of other genres. A lot of genre fiction uses different types of narratives, like fantasy heist novels or fantasy mysteries. I think the point is agents are getting ornery if you write a fantasy that doesn't provide the degree of world-building that nerds typically demand.

[Anonymous No.19402067]

>>19401988
What do you mean by “revealing a character”?

[Anonymous No.19402086]

>>19400659
2.99

[Anonymous No.19402108]

>>19402067
A scene or part of a scene where you reveal detail about a character. For example, a group digging through a newcomer's backpack and pulling out a notebook of drawings to reveal he's artistic.

[Anonymous No.19402112]

>>19400659
Set a price tag for it on Amazon but everywhere you advertise it you should include a download link.

[Anonymous No.19402129]

>>19402112
I didn't think about advertising 2bh; was just gonna drop it then wait a while. How would I do that without sounding like a newfag trying to get his first book out? Which is what it is, but I don't want to come off as obnoxious.

[Anonymous No.19402193]

>>19402129
The absolute best thing you can do here is to come off as humble. The recent authors we've had shilling their books with no tact while taking literally no criticism has been astounding.
Look at Boswell or Jason Bryan, two new authors here who take zero criticism and are only willing to let you read their work if you pay them. Their first attempts at letting people know they had released their book was to throw on some fake
>We did it guys! My first book is out and it's all thanks to you! WAGMI bros!!!
And then proceeded to stand there with open palms waiting for you drop money into their hands.
If you want a (relative) success story here look at Charles Dearmore. Dearmore released his book for free on Amazon for the first week and then purchased some banner ads on 4chan. All of this showed some clear interest in the website and respect for the userbase he was advertising to. Now this didn't get him any money from us but it did get him a solid set of reviews that attracted normies to check out the book. I will point out that Dearmore bought the wrong set of ads on the website though, buy the lower banner ads instead of the upper banner ads. It's 1/3rd of the price and you're more likely to attract people who sit in threads instead of people who sit in the catalog (basedjak posters).

[Anonymous No.19402255]

I'm writing a fantasy novel in the form of a memoir written by the protagonist

My friends seem to like the idea, but perhaps /sffg/ would like to give their thoughts. I know Name of the Wind is not popular around here and somebody told me that novel has a similar style in execution.

[Anonymous No.19402298]

>>19402255
Sounds like shit. Why would anyone read a memoir of a character they don’t know. The only fictional novel that did it right Anne Rice interview with the Vampire.

[Anonymous No.19402305]

>>19402255
Name of the Wind sucks but there have been good books written like this, like Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings and Gene Wolfes Book of the New Sun.

[Anonymous No.19402306]

>>19402255
>/sffg/
wait a moment... this isn't /sffg/... anyway I always thought /sffg/ didn't like homebrew writefags desu

[Anonymous No.19402332]

>>19402306
>I always thought /sffg/ didn't like homebrew writefags desu
They don’t. But fags, for whatever reason, keep trying to turn it into /wg/.

[Anonymous No.19402347]

>>19402298
>>19402255
it's a pretty common literary convention
>fantasy novel
we seriously have enough of this trash.

[Anonymous No.19402367]

What even constitutes a fantasy novel? If it's just goblins, dragons, elves and all that crap, then I should be in the clear. I swear, Japan is the worst when it comes to fantasy tropes. A never-ending vicious cycle of it parodying itself parodying Tolkien stuff

[Anonymous No.19402373]

>>19402367
It's actually not Tolkien but Dragon Quest; I don't think Tolkien is as big there than here in the West

[Anonymous No.19402383]

>>19402367
>I should be in the clear
You're not. 100 Years of Solitude is also fantasy.

[Anonymous No.19402387]

>>19402367
grimgar was good though
but all fantasy books are trash

[Anonymous No.19402397]

>>19402387
im going to fix that

[Anonymous No.19402411]

>>19402373
I thought it sort of kick-started dark fantasy with Berserk as the first of its kind? I have nothing to back that claim though.

[Anonymous No.19402412]

>>19402387
>all fantasy books are trash
Why

[Anonymous No.19402431]

>>19402411
That's right, you don't know what you're talking about at all.

[Anonymous No.19402460]

>>19398118
I've reached a decision. The village idiot will talk about how windmills kill bats by causing internal bleeding.
>>19398158
>>19399513
It wasn't a set-up for a joke, just a slightly comical situation.

[Anonymous No.19402522]

>>19402411
The first dark fantasy was Devilman, Berserk is much later and more popular in the west.

[Anonymous No.19402928]

/wg/, I didn't do my research on how heart valve replacements work and now I've got a main character with an artificial heart stuck in a post apocalyptic wasteland with no way to get anticoagulants

should I just ignore this, or should I give him a habit of eating whole cloves of garlic completely raw. mind you this book is a comedy, but I'm not sure if it's the right fight to pick

[Anonymous No.19402942]

>>19402928
If it's a comedy I would just go with the garlic

[Anonymous No.19402953]

>>19402942
second question: would it be better if he ate garlic like an orange or if he took it like medication?

[Anonymous No.19402961]

>>19402953
Depends on his personality, but I would go with former because the mental image of a guy eating raw garlic is amusing to me

[Anonymous No.19402965]

>>19402953
you could have him chomping on the garlic at the most innappropriate moments it'd be fuckin hilarious lmao

[Anonymous No.19402979]

>>19402953
Constantly chewing on the same piece like chewing tobacco could be good. Would play into the Wild West theme that so many post apocalyptic stories lean into.

[Anonymous No.19403353]

>>19402193
Thanks for the advice. I didn't know that about upper and lower ads. I agree with the sentiment on humility, and it's one of the reasons I'm employing more high wit than low wit in my writing.
I'd love to write an "incel novel" too but capturing the idiosyncrasies with wit is going to be tough. I've heard of some very sensitive authors get dragged through the mud over much smaller.

[Anonymous No.19403383]

>>19402460
A man and a dog walk into a bar. The bartender first asks what the dog wants. The dog barks and whimpers. Before the bartender understands the warning, the man shoots the bartender with a ray gun and removes his human disguise. The dog howls like the biting wind of a winter night.

[Anonymous No.19403700]

Being an atheist I struggle to write religious characters who aren’t retarded because I know that IRL anyone who believes in god is mentally handicapped.

[Anonymous No.19403723]

Is anyone knowledgeable of the YA market? Is it hard to succeed as a contemporary writer (non thriller too) if you’re not Sarah Dessen or John Green?

[Anonymous No.19403733]

>>19403383
You know what would be cool? If the dog was stuck in a timeloop and would keep trying to warn different people.

[Anonymous No.19404015]

A friend recently sent me a script snd i honestly think it’s horrible. It’s not that it’s too poorly written but rather that every choice made by the author is what i find to be wrong with writing these days it’s crime/thriller . Wat do? I honestly read one page, then i get the shingles and have to either hit something or walk the frustration off…

[Anonymous No.19404019]

>>19404015
Tell him your honest thoughts, that's why he gave it to you.

[Anonymous No.19404025]

>>19404015
Ooh! Ooh! Does someone in it have multiple personalities?

[Anonymous No.19404032]

>>19404015
Can we see?

[Anonymous No.19404042]

I made the mistake of mentioning how my fantasy story is inspired by last year’s BLM riots in that it’s about goblins revolting against the elves who are exploiting them. Now the people in my writing group are insisting that I need to get black sensitivity readers and I need to tread carefully or else risk cultural appropriation.
My fantasy scenario is hardly 1:1 with the black experience in America and there are other ways for people to be oppressed than the Black American way so it seems weird to insist it can’t not be the same thing, right?

[Anonymous No.19404047]

>>19403700
Try to find non-sensationalized conversion stories if youre talking Christianity. Seeing that motivation, along with any other virtues you may admire, well help make a character sympathetic. A lot of people come to faith for different reasons. Some because they want respect. Some for forgiveness. Some servitude. Others want freedom. Some people need community, while contrarians may shrink away into the corner pew. You'd be surprised how much variety of belief is under a church roof even for people that read the same translation. Its wolves devouring sheep almost every week.

[Anonymous No.19404048]

I wish there was something like a worldbuilding contractor.
Someone who would just worldbuild an actual setting so that i can write a story in it.
I'm just not creative enough for that.

[Anonymous No.19404072]

>>19404048
Then don’t do it? It’s only autistic retards who insist you need to know whether unions exist to handle the plumbing in your fantasy setting when all you want to do is have some people traipsing around a dungeon and fucking orcs with their mithril drilldos (but did they pay sales tax on those, and what initiatives does the sales tax address?).
Alternatively, just dive write in and figure shit out as you go. If you’re serious about it, you can fix things up upon revising or getting into your second draft, and it’ll be much easier since you’ve identified what you need to address with the first draft.

[Anonymous No.19404077]

>>19402953
Have him be really obsessed about getting his garlic fix. Mixing garlic in with his water, etc

[Anonymous No.19404087]

>>19404072
But now I’m thinking of a fun little tale of some beings who exist outside reality and have the duty of designing worlds/universes for all the deities out there (they may be omnipotent, but they don’t have much imagination).

[Anonymous No.19404100]

>>19404042
Why would you ever write something like that?

[Anonymous No.19404109]

>>19404100
Why not? Should I write yet another isekai? Or a fantasy story about people getting the enchanted maguffin to slay Lord Evilbadguy?

[Anonymous No.19404117]

>>19404109
>Should I write yet another isekai
yes

[Anonymous No.19404125]

>>19404109
I have no clue why you would go from one stupid idea to another so readily. Can't you come up with something that isn't lame? Have you considered that instead of fantasy, you could try writing something worthwhile? Isekai, race riots and the monomyth are not the only paths available to you.

[Anonymous No.19404241]

Guys how should I try to get my creativity back? I don't want to resort to recreational weed or DMT

[Anonymous No.19404281]

>>19404087
I read one such story. It became so episodic that it lacked any kind of narrative drive for the Creator. Had to drop since I don't care about Wizard lady and Elf queen, I want to see what the Creator is up to, but every time story changes to his perspective it's just to introduce some other character that will carry the next chapters.

[Anonymous No.19404292]

>>19404241
Close your browser. No, seriously. Close your browser. You're being distracted.

[Anonymous No.19404293]

>>19404048
what fantasyfags dont want you to know is that worldbuilding is important for every genre. they just want to seem special because they come up with their worlds by ripping off other fantasy authors instead of researching stuff that is real.

[Anonymous No.19404330]

>>19404042
>my writing group are insisting that I need to get black sensitivity readers
white liberals really are the worst. well, second worst

[Anonymous No.19404373]

>>19403700
Have you tried an advancing past midwittery? There are plenty of perfectly logical reasons that someone could believe in a god, they just have a different axiomatic basis for that belief than you do.
t. Atheist

[Anonymous No.19404408]

>>19404125
I have more ideas than you. You’re just here to shit on peoples’ efforts, so fuck off.

[Anonymous No.19404421]

>>19403700
>Anti theists writing about what they believe against
Well, there are precedents, I guess. I think there's a saying that when Kant argued against the five proofs against God, he himself found a six one for Him.

[Anonymous No.19404422]

Is writing a YA fantasy with a black female main character overdone now?

[Anonymous No.19404424]

>>19404408
Anon. You are not making any effort. Black people are goblins? Really? Is that the best you can do?

[Anonymous No.19404428]

>>19404422
>fantasy
Yes.

[Anonymous No.19404512]

>>19404424
Agreed. black people don't belong in stories at all

[Anonymous No.19404664]

>>19404019
I guess you’re right.

>>19404025
Not that i noticed.

>>19404032
I don’t kiss and tell.

[Anonymous No.19404880]

>submit query to publisher last Tuesday
>be told by them to expect a response with comments by Friday
>Friday has passed and now it's Monday
Am I dead, bros?

[Anonymous No.19404915]

>>19404880
there are a lot of fridays. maybe they meant this friday?

[Anonymous No.19405033]

>>19403353
I'm Thinking of Ending Things does a great job at exploring the incel mindset. Can only speak for the movie though, heard the book was a little less flattering towards the end and that's why Kaufman changed it.

[Anonymous No.19405047]

>>19398936
>Why write if you’re not going to make money?
Absolute subhuman. Kill yourself, scum.

[Anonymous No.19405061]

>>19404042
Imagine accidentally writing a less creative Bright.

[Anonymous No.19405115]

Need advice.
I'm putting together a sample for a project that I can pitch to an academic publisher and hopefully get a small team together. All it entails is taking the early 1600s English of this original commentary work and transliterating it into modern spelling, and then supplying some notes and contextual commentary aside from the original text--this is because I feel the commentary is useful, both for reading and potentially for academics citing themselves; however, the work itself hasn't been reprinted in centuries. But even then, the grammar of the period is weird, as are the exceedingly long paragraphs with no breaks. Since it's just block-paragraph commentary that doesn't break until the next topic of commentary, and since there is quite a bit of grammatically incorrect (for modern rules) comma and other punctuation usage, I'm tempted to "fix" it, but at the same time I know that would be drifting too far into editorializing and not keeping the original work intact. For comparison, all the editing I'd do is stuff like "sonne > son" spelling transliteration.

[Anonymous No.19405199]

>>19405033
Cool. I'll take a look at it. A thriller sounds nice. I'd probably write more realistic, if not gothic, than thriller if it was me.

[Anonymous No.19405238]

>>19403700
fedora EUPHORIC cringe
>>19403723
just browse manuscript wishlist. have some beer around to drink afterwards though, you'll need it.
>>19404422
no, that's what every agent wants
just rewrite any popular book but make the characters brown and you'll be in.

[Anonymous No.19405261]

>>19404880
it can take 3 months to get a response. chill out and stop checking your inbox. i'm kind of wondering what you mean by submitted the query to a PUBLISHER. did you mean an agent, or is it some kind of indie press?

my first rejection of this ms just came in. also just to complain, i feel like you're expected to lick the feet of agents. most advice tells you to open the query letter with a reason why you think they're a good fit for it, so shit like, "i read your blog and subscribed to your twitter!" or "i like the other books you helped published!" or whatever crap. i have a hard time doing that. at most i'll drop a line if they're from the same area as me and mention that, but it feels so disingenuous to try to brownnose them. idk. i just write the query letter part the same way i'd write a business email.

[Anonymous No.19405275]

When I write a draft, what feels like an entire chapter only ends up being like 1,000 words, then I have to pad it out with more stuff. There's definitely enough content for an entire chapter; I just keep making it so short. Is this normal?

[Anonymous No.19405292]

>>19405275
1k-1.5k is ok and what authors usually do for daily chapter releases. A chapter should be as long as needed though—though I'd draw the line at 5-6k, and I'd absolutely draw the line over 9k. Then you have the school of thought more common on reddit that chapters can be a sentence or word long too. Do whatever you want.

[Anonymous No.19405381]

>>19405292
>1k-1.5k is ok and what authors usually do for daily chapter releases
Seriously? I've been doing 2k-2.5k just building up backlog before I start posting. I'm going to have to do some word count checks now on popular web stories.

[Anonymous No.19405433]

>>19405292
I do 4-6k words a chapter depending on how I want it to feel. For snappy, impactful scenes I edit for brevity. Chapters with lots of "scene" I will have more scenes but shorter overal. For something slow, thoughtful and lots of "sequel" I usually end up adding more content, but with less scenes.

[Anonymous No.19405648]

/wg/, I've finished my book and am editing it but I want to add in one last scene and can't decide how much to spoil about the next book and how to keep hidden

>there's a laboratory under the setting
>it's connected to an insane asylum one of the MCs escaped from as part of her backstory
>at the heart of it is a kaiju-sized embryo hooked up to machines
>a skull of similar scale lies beneath the MC's house still dreaming
>one of these creatures was responsible for creating the world
>they wait for the heroes who will one day destroy it

note that the next book will focus on the aforementioned escapee discovering this lab and exploring it

[Anonymous No.19405982]

>Trying to create a novel that I'm passionate about, appeals to me and not thinking about marketability
>But....I kind of do need it to make money
I'm fucked aren't I bros

[Anonymous No.19406029]

>>19405033
>check bibliography
>a couple non-fiction books
>starts thinking about the concept for fiction but doesn't write it for a couple years
>spends 3 years writing first novel
>get a movie deal
I spent plenty of time thinking about my story before I even considered writing at all. It took me a while to even understand how to do this so I can sympathize with that. He really got a nice bump to his career with that movie.

[Anonymous No.19406105]

>>19405982
i actually did move targets to something more marketable (instead of a male centric story, a female centric one), but i was also interested in that story itself and came to love it, so it's not like you need to sell out, just change your priorities and explore more marketable ideas. my idea was using this to get published initially, after which you distinguish yourself out of the slush pile enough to have leverage to write what you want. hopefully in the next few years the female centricity is going to burn out and we can return to a more sane environment. surely there are only so many books that can be written about [some historical figure's wife]. surely.

so basically, write what you want, but do so smartly. it's a market. you can write another version of stoner but is that going to have a market today? the literary industry has a tendency to move in trends...if you're thinking in terms of 10 years and not 1 year then it's fine. but you will NEVER get published until you have a finished manuscript in hand. literally just write more. most people's first novel (or 2 or 3) are trash until they figure out how to write. stop thinking about it so hard.
>>19406029
idk, i dont trust when someone says it's their first novel. i'd lie and say my first published was my first written, to avoid admitting i wrote another one previously that wasn't any good. take things with a grain of salt. every bio you read is marketing copy.

[Anonymous No.19406117]

>>19406029
Yeah you're right about the bibliography, I forgot I often warn people about that too because it's usually the case people spend 3-5 years before they right something good. Surely he had been working on fiction for quite some time.
One example I give is Dan Wells. It appears in his bibliography that "I am not a Serial Killer" was his first novel but in any interview he admits he wrote fan-fiction and shit novels for 8 years. At least he made it because he saw himself as a writer and kept doing it.

[Anonymous No.19406122]

>>19406117
*write something
shit it's been a long day

[Anonymous No.19406145]

>>19406029
>He really got a nice bump to his career with that movie.
Meanwhile Kaufman continues to flounder. I haven't read the book yet but if this is another Orchid Thief situation then the wrong person is profiting again.

[Anonymous No.19406148]

So apparently you CAN query more than 1 agent at a given agency (unless they expressly say not to). Just not more than 1 at a time.
Wow that explains so much. I was afraid of running out of agents before.
That's honestly so great because a lot of agencies seem shitty and have a cringe client list. Today was a great day.

[Anonymous No.19406400]

>>19406105
>Genderflipping the protagonist is a silly idea most people have for fun
>It's a serious decision I have to make in life
Weird how things work out

[Anonymous No.19406494]

>>19400831
So, "Roog" by Philip K. Dick?

[Anonymous No.19406519]

>>19402193
>Boswell
When did I take no criticism?
Also, I've offered an early version of about 40% of the novel for free.
https://reddit.com/user/ulatekh/comments/pluf8q/hello/

I'm interested in knowing what I did to come across as an ass, or antagonize anyone.

[Anonymous No.19406539]

>>19406519
>40% of an early version
Not even that guy but Jesus man. You're not even willing to throw up pdf for other anons to read? You expect them to pay you full price?

[Anonymous No.19406554]

>>19406539
Full price of the e-book is $2.99, which is the lowest Amazon would let me price it.
And I wonder why throwing up 40% of it isn't enough; seems like that would let you know if you'd like it or not.

[Anonymous No.19406595]

>>19406554
Nah that's bullshit. You can set the book for free or you can throw up a PDF just for us. If you cared about actual feedback on your story you wouldn't be giving us 40% of the novel, let alone one that is mostly unedited and has been revised multiple times since.
You're here because you can smell $50 of drinking money. Only thing that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.19406641]

>>19406595
So, essentially, what I did wrong was not give it all away for free?
Because that's a wholly unfair charge.

If I get no credit at all for posting 40% of it for free, I'm speechless.

And the editing was light...mostly minor grammar fixes. If I thought the posted version was far from the final version, I'd update what I posted.

And if this answer is a sign of "takes zero criticism", so be it. If I'm being criticized for not giving away the whole thing for free, that's not even remotely fair.

I bought a paperback copy of both "Son Of The Sun" and "Salvation On Peril Island", and left nice reviews of both on Amazon.
I wasn't trying to get anything for free.
I never even considered asking for that.

[Anonymous No.19406674]

>>19406641
>And if this answer is a sign of "takes zero criticism", so be it. If I'm being criticized for not giving away the whole thing for free, that's not even remotely fair.
Like I said, not the guy who said that but considering how much indignance you've shown over this it's not surprising you've built that reputation.
/wg/ is almost like an anonymous book club. You don't walk into a book club with a box full of your novels and proceed to pester everyone like a street hawker. Maybe that's how it works on reddit but not here. I can see where the complaint about tact comes in.

[Anonymous No.19406677]

My primary motivation to write my first novel was so I could have a power fantasy about saving the world and getting together with a tsundere girl.
I think the biggest influences on my writing are Star Wars and superhero movies. The good ones, anyway.

[Anonymous No.19406699]

>>19406674
So giving away 40% of it counts for nothing.
And standing up for myself, when I think I've been wronged, is somehow lacking tact.

Any other criticisms? Or is that it?

[Anonymous No.19406732]

>>19406699
Just that you've been a good lesson for >>19402129

[Anonymous No.19406749]

>>19406732
So advertising on here would make a difference?

[Anonymous No.19406754]

>>19406677
>My primary motivation to write my first novel was so I could have a power fantasy about saving the world and getting together with a tsundere girl.
This reminds me of When the Sleeper Wakes by HG Wells. It has that element but also education is replaced by hypnosis, all the nation's wealth hinges upon a single investment, and the government's military is completely non-English (all Africans in wasp-colored suits). I didn't expected the story would end the way it did, but the protag definitely goes full power fantasy.

[Anonymous No.19406870]

>>19406519
>40% of the novel for free
>>19406554
>40%
>>19406641
>40% of it for free
>>19406699
>giving away 40% of it
This kind of absolutely pathetic point-repetition does nothing to sell your novel, nor does it do anything to make you look like anything other than a scummy faggot trying to sell copies under the guise of wanting criticism. I have 100% confidence that if I did buy your book and I reviewed it poorly you would respond by attacking my review, trying to ad-hom, or by never replying to the criticism at all if it was on /wg/ only.

[Anonymous No.19406922]

I'd give away 100% of my novel away for free but I haven't written it yet

[Anonymous No.19406954]

>>19406870
I'm repeating that point because it's going completely unacknowledged. Not sure why that makes it "absolutely pathetic".
You seem to want my book for free; you can get 40% of it for free now, but somehow that counts for nothing.
I bought "Son Of The Sun" and "Salvation On Peril Island" after reading just the "Look Inside!" portion on Amazon. Am I really an outlier?

I'm getting the distinct impression that the only response you really want from me is to fall to my knees and lick your boots. But I won't succumb to bullies.

I was working on a banner ad for this site, but if my questions are only answered with middle-school bullying, it's not worth it.

[Anonymous No.19406963]

Get a trip or return to reddit. Either is fine with me.

[Anonymous No.19407000]

>>19406954
You acting like people need to give a fuck that you're giving away two-fifths of an old draft for free indicates more about your personality than I need to know to make a determination that I won't bother with your faggy novel. Your bot-like reddit post history and the projection of
>the only response you really want from me is to fall to my knees and lick your boots
is just icing on the cake.
tl;dr stop posting

[Anonymous No.19407024]

>>19407000
>old draft
You aren't reading what I write.
>the editing was light...mostly minor grammar fixes. If I thought the posted version was far from the final version, I'd update what I posted.
>bot-like reddit post history
Are you referring to my prolific output? What makes that "bot like"?

[Anonymous No.19407033]

This is why I don't post my work here.

[Anonymous No.19407034]

>>19407024
>prolific output
This fucking guy.

[Anonymous No.19407035]

>>19406519
What do you work as?

[Anonymous No.19407038]

>splitting my previous 120k word ms into 2 so I can keep a more reasonable pacing and bring both halves to 100-110k
my word processor is already thanking me. it is really an absolutely massive story and i cant understand why i was trying to fit it in 1 novel. haven't touched it in a year now. this is going to be fun. should take about 8-10 months, and then i can move on to the half complete manuscript that was too difficult for me before.

[Anonymous No.19407046]

>>19407024
>prolific output

[Anonymous No.19407048]

>>19407046
>>prolific output

[Anonymous No.19407051]

>>19407046
>>19407048
top moa

[Anonymous No.19407054]

>>19407048
>>>prolific output

[Anonymous No.19407058]

>>19407046
No, THIS prolific output:
https://old.reddit.com/user/ulatekh/comments/pluf8q/hello/

[Anonymous No.19407059]

>>19407054
>>>>prolific output
Need I go on? There's more, but it's more spread out. This shit reads like you're a fucking bot.

[Anonymous No.19407064]

>>19407058
>I posted an early draft of about 40% of it here on Reddit
>>19407024
>>old draft
>You aren't reading what I write.
Hmm

[Anonymous No.19407068]

The absolute state of Boswell.

[Anonymous No.19407078]

Hey boswell. What's your line of work?

[Anonymous No.19407094]

>>19407033
Yeah, I think everyone here is seeing that now.

[Anonymous No.19407103]

I'm afraid someone will steal my ideas if I post em kek

[Anonymous No.19407108]

>>19407033
The actual reason you shouldn't post work here is because the vast majority of posters here are total pseuds, Boswell included. They don't represent the average reader at all and their tastes are informed by a pretense to being more intellectual than they are.

[Anonymous No.19407110]

how do i come up with names that sound right
not weird, but also not just completely random. ones that convey something, but more in terms of sound than by bludgeoning you over the head with having them named after some bloke from greek mythology with a vaguely similar life path

[Anonymous No.19407112]

>>19407033
I don't know. I feel like this wouldn't have happened if Boswell was able to read the room. Dozens of people post their work here every week, most take their feedback like adults.

[Anonymous No.19407115]

>>19407108
Honestly this is why I fucking hate this board but I don't have anyone else to talk with about writing.

[Anonymous No.19407125]

>>19407110
What kind of story are you writing?

[Anonymous No.19407126]

>>19407110
Throw a bunch of random words into Google translate; I usually just stick around Greek, Latin, German words. Then combine them into hybrid names. Once you get good at it, you can make completely original names that sound really authentic but have no actual meaning.

[Anonymous No.19407129]

>>19407115
>I don't have anyone else to talk with about writing
Same 2bh. None of the reading/writing groups I join ever stick

[Anonymous No.19407136]

>>19407112
>most take their feedback like adults
WHAT feedback?
You want the entire book for free?
That's supposed to be feedback?

[Anonymous No.19407141]

>>19407078
Like most neckbeards, I program computers.

[Anonymous No.19407147]

Who the hell is Boswell?

[Anonymous No.19407148]

>>19407136
The feedback is that you have an unmanaged personality disorder and act like a deranged lunatic while self-aggrandizing and refusing to listen to feedback.

[Anonymous No.19407153]

>>19407141
Ah, that makes sense, no wonder

[Anonymous No.19407194]

>>19406870
>worried I would respond to a bad review with ad-hominem attacks
>>19407108
>makes ad-hominem attacks on me
>>19407112
>read the room
You expect that from an autist?

Someone always seems to start this thread with "no one here writes".
Not given the way they're treated, no.

[Anonymous No.19407201]

>>19407148
>circular logic
>ad hominem attacks

[Anonymous No.19407206]

>>19407194
>bawww ur meen
>>19407201
>also mean means ad-hom

[Anonymous No.19407209]

>>19407059
Those are the comments I attach to the stories I write, so I can link to my master story list & my subreddit.
Such links aren't allowed in the story body.

[Anonymous No.19407216]

>>19407209
Oh I get it now, you're one of those S'Arais-like posters who gets off on the negative attention. Kill yourself, this is my final reply btw.

[Anonymous No.19407256]

>>19407216
I'm just trying to get a straight answer about what criticism I should be taking.
Instead, I got ranting, ad hominem attacks, projection, circular logic, and bullying.
When both sides of this conversation are compared to each other, I'm comfortable with how it turned out.
Have a good evening.

[Anonymous No.19407262]

>>19407147
I'm an unknown writer that wrote this book:
>>19406519

[Anonymous No.19407284]

>>19407153
Given the website we're both on, was that really a surprise?

[Anonymous No.19407290]

>>19407068
Oooh, title for a sequel!

[Anonymous No.19407297]

>>19407064
Just to remind you...
>19407024
the editing was light...mostly minor grammar fixes. If I thought the posted version was far from the final version, I'd update what I posted.

[Anonymous No.19407304]

ngggg
https://ghostbin.com/RinBB

[Anonymous No.19407312]

>5 posts in a row
Just report and ignore.

[Anonymous No.19407390]

>>19398060
>> Formatting manuscript
>https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
Can you fix the OP to link a site that doesn't require an email to see anything of value?
Something like
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-format-a-book-manuscript#how-to-format-your-book-manuscript

[Anonymous No.19408033]

Anyone writing? What'cha workin' on?

[Anonymous No.19408051]

>>19408033
me fuck
https://ghostbin.com/UXs93

[Anonymous No.19408233]

how do you come up with a villain you can sympathize with? like the villain has committed genocide but you want the protag to like them and consider joining them

does anyone have any tips or good resources or books that do this well? Thank you

[Anonymous No.19408249]

Three men in long dark brown coats approached, and no one could have possibly predicted what was about to happen. They walked in and started to dry themselves off and took their coats off. There they can be seen attached; to the sides of their bodies they were polished and ready for the slaughter. The men had sheen black rifles that almost reached the floor. "Everyone on the ground! This is a stick up!" said one of the men. The women behind the counter screamed at the top of her lungs and people dropped to the floor in an instant. "No one gets hurts if you all comply!" said the second man with the grizzly beard. He shot twice into the air and small clouds of dust engulfed him. He pointed to his henchman "Get to work idiots!".

The two men scrambled in the back trying to get the money into their bags. Pallets of money were stacked but there was too much to take with them. "What are we going to do?" said one of them, "I don't know, we'll take what we can" said the other as he stuffed cash into his bag. Outside the head robber looked out the window and saw a sea of flashing lights and sirens that could be heard blocks away. "Shit" he said as he loaded a magazine into his rifle. "Sir! We've got them surrounded, what are our orders?" said one of the deputies outside. The police chief he was talking to was known for being corrupt but he could get the job done when necessary. The police chief took a sip of the liquor bottle he usually hid in his car, "Fuck, I don't care what people say I want them dead. Don't let them leave alive," he said wiping his lips. "Sir!" said the deputy then he ran towards the ammunition container.

Three shots came from the bank window and two officers went down. "Open fire!" yelled the chief. Inside the two henchman became frightened. "Why did you do that Jack?!" said one of them. "Oh, you thought we were going to get away?" said Jack as he laughed taking aim again. A wave of bullets hit the bank walls and glass was shattering from all angles. Jack unloaded his clip with the eyes of a madman hellbent on killing as many officers as he could before dying. His two henchman dropped their guns and ran while stepping on hostages as they fled. "There! Fire!" said an officer outside spotting them run away and the robbers were gunned down. Inside Jack was sweating with his heart pumping out his chest; the adrenaline was too much for him to handle. Suddenly, Sam snaps out of his day dream and looks at his feet then says "If I take one more step, it'll be the farthest from home I've ever been". Looking back Frodo asks "Come on Sam" as Sam takes a step. "Remember what Bilbo used to say, It's a dangerous business Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off too." The camera pans out and Lord of the Rings comes across the screen and everyone in the theater claps.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pGaz_qN0cw

The end.

The end.

[Anonymous No.19408385]

>>19408233
You need to understand how people become villains. I modeled one villain off of Ray Kurzweil because he's fairly infamous to those are skeptical of robotics. He included some of his early childhood and reasoning for his motivations in some of his books and interviews, so it gave me a sympathetic peek into a man many find to be insane.

It's usually not as simple as a tragic backstory, but it's a steady building of evidence that reinforces the choices that they made. Without some evidence it can feel like a cop-out and there's no sympathy. Villains don't have to be correct about their interpretation of evidence, but I think it should make some sense so the reader can tiptoe into the villain's perspective. Often times villains are similar to protagonists and differ because of one fateful difference in how they chose to live their or the life given to them that they accepted.

[Anonymous No.19408389]

>>19408233
Speaker for the Dead is a book entirely about a genocide committer trying to redeem himself.

[Anonymous No.19408749]

>>19405238
I want my fantasy series to actually be seen as good though, not pity read or read just because the character is a black teen girl

[Anonymous No.19408757]

>>19408749
>the character is a black teen girl
lmao okay i will pity read your story, anon

[Anonymous No.19409060]

Today I will write about a fat religious guy keeping a copy of R. Crumb's Genesis hidden away in his room so he can masturbate to it.

[Anonymous No.19409176]

I don't like worldbuilding and prefer to write self contained stories that effectively function as a puzzle and are "solved" by the end, however I still like worldbuidling as a concept and want to feature it in my stories, is it a bad practice to talk about cool shit that will never have any implications in the main story?

For example imagine Dune but the spice and worms are just background flavor instead crucial parts of the plot, which is actually a political drama between the houses with no fantasy elements.

[Anonymous No.19409274]

Thoughts on dramatically skipping/understating fights between the protaganist and the antagonist's underlings? Epic fantasy web novel. Do you think readers will be bothered they don't get to see the choreography or will they simply be fine with it since the outcome is obvious?


For context, Lucius (the MC) is basically Zombieman from OPM / Wolverine

>Lucius sighed. He could feel the state of his body, the growing tension between death and life. His head pounded with a throbbing rush of blood that fought back against the void. “You all could surrender. I’m not trying to stay here, I’m trying to leave, and you people insist on attacking me with your sense of justice. You could just-”
>A sword rammed through his back, slipping between his ribs and through his lung before bursting from his breast.
>“Well then,” he said, his voice barely audible, for he couldn’t even breathe properly. Then he reversed his sword grip and stabbed it behind himself, slicing through the attacker’s throat. Blood showered him, and the butchery began.
>Some hours later, his subordinates woke him up by pouring a bucket of water onto him

[Anonymous No.19409299]

>>19409176
Tangents of world building don’t need to loop back the main plot line to be relevant. Imagine a trapper giving small details on the local wildlife, he may not encounter a mountain lion in his travels that day but it can say a lot about the character to see how he delivers this information.

[Anonymous No.19409333]

Can creative writing be taught?

[Anonymous No.19409350]

>>19409333
checked and yes i think so, at least helpful parts like structuring and how to develop characters (wants/needs/etc.). show don't tell, that sort of stuff.

[Anonymous No.19409372]

>>19409176
I'd say it depends on how you present the information. Don't just dump it on the reader without any context, try integrate it in a way that feels natural.

[Anonymous No.19409568]

I may have lost a notebook with some good writing in it.
My honor demands that I commit sudoku.

[Anonymous No.19409727]

tfw there's a potentially infinite amount of detail in every scene and you, the author, has to choose precisely the correct amount

[Anonymous No.19409744]

>>19409727
It's more important to depict action than to describe minutiae, unless said minutiae is part of the sensory experience of a character whose limited perspective is being used as a filter for aforementioned scene.

[Anonymous No.19409764]

>>19398060
Is not instantly hating my own writing a bad sign?

[Anonymous No.19409806]

I'm finding out I enjoy more writing in English than in my own language, but then my English is obviously not as good as my mother tongue. I feel like I've played myself.

[Anonymous No.19409817]

>>19409806
>English is obviously not as good as my mother tongue
Unless you're Hungarian this is false.

[Anonymous No.19409878]

>>19409817
My English, anon, not English itself. The English I speak is not as good as my original Spanish, but I feel more comfortable writing fiction in English. Hence, the irony.

[Anonymous No.19409942]

>>19409764
>s-self hatred is the goal, right?
meds. take them

[Anonymous No.19410035]

I got back my mojo, AMA

[Anonymous No.19410080]

>>19410035
why?

[Anonymous No.19410154]

>>19410080
Things just clicked. I wrote 1.8k words today, finished a chapter and know exactly what I'll write tomorrow. I feel good about myself.

[Anonymous No.19410213]

>>19409333
No, all the countless courses and schools out there are just a big scam

[Anonymous No.19410235]

>>19410154
Things are starting to click for me too. I hear my characters speaking in my head. Since I've been reading short stories every day, it's been conjuring up so many memories and brought a new awareness to how I wanted to express the story. If I keep up I should be done with this novel by spring.

[Anonymous No.19410379]

>>19408033
Been working on my next chapter on and off. It's been rough staying focused this week though, been slacking off too hard with vidya.

[Anonymous No.19410580]

>>19410379
Just set video games for a certain time if you must. I play 30-60 mins in the morning with breakfast, read a short story, then go to work. I do different things as an oblique strategy to change perspective often, but sticking certain things to schedules helped me manage time better. A moderate amount of reading and writing has helped me stick with it.

[Anonymous No.19411340]

>>19410580
honestly i'd be so much more productive with a permaban

[Anonymous No.19411986]

>>19399770
Do you specifically seek out "subversive" agents who will publish an unknown straight white male or are you trying your luck with whatever foid/fag/darkie you find on the agency's webpage?

[Anonymous No.19412190]

>>19411986
>go to manuscript wishlist
>theyre all far left edgelord "dark, sarcastic, witty" wine aunts, brown wammenz, and 5% bugmen who love marvel movies
>they all fill their page with twitter hashtags like bipoc representation, own voices, underrepresented voices, diverse writers, lgbbqtasdfkjghslkdfl;sjdfop+++, blm, feminism, etc
honestly i might be better off just shooting myself in the head. it's not just one or two. it's 95% of them.

diversity of everything except the only thing that could have mattered: diversity of ideas

[Anonymous No.19412199]

>>19410213
this but unironically

[Anonymous No.19412244]

>>19404048
>Take a period of history.
>tHe cOjUnCtIoN or whatever to add fantastical elements.
Do that and its just human culture + developments and whatever you want to add.

[Anonymous No.19412271]

>>19409764
That depends. Are you thinking "wow, this writing stuff isn't so hard after all..." or "yeah, this is about what I expected from myself"?

[Anonymous No.19412289]

>>19409764
For me there are only two options "wew this comically bad" and "yeah I'm thinking this is based". I have the maturity of a small child

[Anonymous No.19412333]

>>19412289
based lightswitch brain

[Anonymous No.19412360]

>>19412190
Perhaps there is something inherently "woke" about a manuscript wishlist. Surely there are plenty of agents that don't use them.

[Anonymous No.19412449]

>>19412190
That's what I've been experiencing in the short story market too. I saw one magazine today that said something like
>"We prioritize BIPOC, female, queer, and disabled writers. If that for some reason annoys you, we REALLY don't want to read your work"
I'm 1/4 Asian so I could probably fit their standards, but part of me feels kind of shitty submitting something like that. Something feels dishonest about presenting myself as the kind of guy who finds such an environment appealing.

[Anonymous No.19412578]

If you treat writing every day as a sort of practice, how do you make it an iterative process? Repetition is one thing, but it’s really iteration that improves something I think. So how would you take your writing from just doing the thing over and over to doing to the over and over while making assessments and judgements to improve along the way?

[Anonymous No.19412666]

>>19412360
mswl is a pretty standard thing, it's just a statement of what kind of books they would like to represent.
>>19412449
i'm not even a white male. work should be judged based on merit, not race and gender checkboxes. this is wrong and disgusting. and if you complain about it they cancel you and throw you out of the industry, just ruin your entire life for not going along with it. at best you can find an agent who doesn't explicitly mention any of this woke nonsense. at best.

and given the decline in sales of books i think even readers don't want this wokeshit. the harder they push the more the sales go down.

[Anonymous No.19412750]

Just like self publish

[Anonymous No.19412772]

https://maryww.com/2009/04/14/the-talent-killers-how-literary-agents-are-destroying-literature-and-what-publishers-can-do-to-stop-them/

>I can answer that question for you. I can tell you why your desk is piling up with flimsy bits of vampire literature, fantasy, romance, detective stories and the kind of first-draft bubble gum that used to be called chick-lit but is now shuffled in with other women’s writing in order to give it heft—although as far as you can see, neither the quality nor the subject matter has improved—which you are required to somehow turn into publishable books. It is because the vast majority of literary agents do not, in fact, have any interest in literature. They are only interested in jackpots.
>There is no room for gourmet tastes or discerning palates in this system. Agents’ websites may trumpet their dedication to literary fiction, but what they really want is books that sell. These purveyors of literary costume jewelry seek out the kind of quirky but unsubstantial mental junk food that is as similar as possible to last season’s bestsellers—fiction that will sell quickly and widely by association with the almost-identical books that have preceded it. See last week’s best-seller list for an eloquent guide to this fad-based publishing system.

[Anonymous No.19412783]

>>19412578
>If you treat writing every day as a sort of practice
why would you do that? that may be the case but you should be trying to tell a story of some sort. not merely puts words to paper as an exercise.
>iteration
editing

[Anonymous No.19412786]

>>19409274
It's fine if you try to be more subtle about it.
Instead of "and the butchery began", try something like "He closed his eyes and took a deep breath" followed by "When his subordinates finally arrived, they were greeted by a bloodbath."
Don't give the reader the expectation of a massacre scene if you aren't giving them one.

[Anonymous No.19412804]

>>19412783
>why would you do that?
Improve your writing. Pretty impressive if you can write a story every single day for years…

[Anonymous No.19412807]

>>19398060
I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO SUBMIT MY SHIT.

[Anonymous No.19412818]

>>19412783
>editing
Editing crap won’t make it anything other than crap. It won’t improve your prose. It provides no feedback. And it’s not iterative.

[Anonymous No.19412834]

>>19412807
royal road?

[Anonymous No.19412843]

>>19412578
To repeat a process and improve you need a critical step where you evaluate the results. But without a concept of what's better and what's worse, you have nothing to evaluate. To get better at writing you have to know what's better than what you have. If you don't have experience or haven't read widely it's tough to do and you'll just spin your wheels.

[Anonymous No.19412852]

>>19412834
Hell no. I'm good enough to target mid-range literary mags but I don't read literary mags so I wouldn't know which ones to submit to.

[Anonymous No.19412895]

>>19412852
The fact that you think a gigantic platform full of idiots willing to give away money for free content is beneath you is hilarious.

[Anonymous No.19412925]

>>19412666
>i think even readers don't want this wokeshi
I write horror and you're even more right about that when it comes to it. Most magazines and journals don't say things as bluntly as what I quoted, but you'll notice that those are the kind of stories they usually take. But when it comes to what sells, King and Joe Hill (his son lmao) still dominate when it comes to horror.

[Anonymous No.19412996]

>>19412786
I'll ask that when I get a beta reader for it. The chapter has already had plenty of fighting that led up to that, so I think the hunger for combat has already been sated?

I'll need a response from someone who has read the whole chapter to sort out that kind of nuance.

[Anonymous No.19413164]

Is it bad to autistically and pretentiously overthink everything I'm writing?

[Anonymous No.19413178]

>>19412852
Submit it to deez magazine. Have you heard of it? lol.

[Anonymous No.19413315]

>>19413164
If it's a draft, yeah. Just hammer out the damn thing and fix it in post

[Anonymous No.19413320]

I'm at 96k words and I just want to thank you lot for your cynicism and vitriol, as it has helped drive me further than even I thought possible.

[Anonymous No.19413324]

>>19413320
based

[Anonymous No.19413325]

>>19413320
Is this guy going to make it?

[Anonymous No.19413380]

>writing web serial story (not posted yet because I want to edit it properly and have a good backlog)
>pretty serious plot overall, very realistic outside of the few fantastical things
>main character is a literal psychopath in the sense that he has no guilt, is quick to resort to violence, and thinks very objectively while also being decent at faking social skills
>also MC cannot into sex (important later) for plot-reasons which make sense in context
>getting worldbuilding and plot done at the same time
>overall tone is a bit tragic after chapter ~35, with some intrigue mixed in
>then, 50 chapters in, the first long-term supporting character is introduced
>he's a smooth-talking jackass robber who pisses off around 90% of the people he interacts with
>total chauvinist, zero ethics, kleptomaniac, blatantly greedy as fuck, and has no honor
>MC is probably the only man autistic enough to not be bothered by him
>He is only friendly to the MC because he's fucking terrified of him after nearly dying attempting to rob him (he only lived because MC didn't want to have to deal with the cops after killing him)
>has been banned from multiple businesses, is referred to as a "scumbag" openly by people who know of him
>is also lazy and weak
>in the latest chapter he drags the MC to an inn just because "the innkeeper has a huge rack like you wouldn't believe"
>MC is too sexblind to know what the fuck a "huge rack" is, but goes anyway because he heard the rooms are cheap and they're both poor as shit
I can't wait until I get around to posting this so I can see the reactions. It's very fun writing a story where both of the main characters are the furthest thing from moral paragons possible. Even later on, in the second volume of planned chapters, the character who is closest to being a "good person" is the equivalent of being so racist that she would shoot someone in broad daylight if their skin was the wrong color.
Also later on the robber gets kidnapped and brutally tortured, and the MC commits things which are definitely against the Geneva convention against the people who captured him. Not because he wants his "friend" back, but because those same people have a lot of money and killing them is the easiest way to get it.
Writing is fun.

[Anonymous No.19413395]

>>19413380
you haven't spouted even a little bit of what the mc's goal is

[DR. GONZO !!JUfMKYBLVi9 No.19413405]

Finally got through my writer's block. It just needed to be treated with a whole lot of alcohol and a blowjob.

[Anonymous No.19413486]

>>19413395
Reach a landmark that's really far away and "fix" something in it. Part of the plot is that he isn't given much information at all besides the goal, and due to the nature of his character and the circumstances under which he receives the instruction he basically has no choice (in his mind) but to do it. I mean technically he could just fuck off and not do it, but if he was the type to do that he wouldn't have been picked. One of the underlying themes of the story is determinism, and how the ability to predict the future with great accuracy can allow someone or something powerful to create things like "destiny" just by picking starting variables.
In actuality, the goal is to get a sort of computer virus which has been coded into his DNA into the device inside of that landmark by having it read his biometrics, but he doesn't know that. He's basically an unwitting (sort of) agent in a very strange proxy war.
Also
>spouted
Why so aggressive, faggot?

[Anonymous No.19413496]

>>19413380
Your book sounds fucking cool, Anon.

[Anonymous No.19413504]

This past year I've finished a shitty fantasy book, several short stories and a small scifi novel. Didn't like any of them but stillsemi-proud I at least started what I always kinda wanted to try. Anyway, all those didn't have initial structure just a woblly kind of plan and some character ideas and ran out of gas towards the end.
Now I've come up with the idea of a historic novel set during the Russian revolution/civil war and everything starts falling into place. I've started on an outline, a kind of point by point plan of crucial events. There is a huge reading list of fiction and non-fiction I've made. And the ideas just keep coming.
I hope I'll be able to show you guys something later this year. There are several scenes in my head from different parts of the book that are pretty formed and need writing.
Planning to wrok in Russian and translate into English in parallel but probably will switch to one or the other later.
After reading the blood meridian I just don't feel confident in my English at all. The opposite, to be honest.

[Anonymous No.19413506]

>>19413496
I'm not going to shill it here once I start posting it because I'm not retarded, but if by some miracle you remember these posts you might be able to identify it if you come across it. I just hope my awful writing doesn't make the people who read it want to die. In fact, my prose is pretty much the reason I'm writing the whole first volume out and editing it before even posting one chapter, it makes me want to die of shame sometimes and I know I'll be way better by the time I finish Volume 1 than I was at the start.

[Anonymous No.19413645]

>>19398979
Not trying to be judgmental but this seems like a really strange exercise.

>>19405982
Get a day job. Try to get one where you can write on the job or at least one where you can think about writing on the job. If you're a bartender, for example, you can put stuff down on cocktail napkins. When you get home spend an hour or two typing up the stuff you mulled over at work that day.

[Anonymous No.19413836]

>>19413380
The problem with writing asshole characters is that nobody cares what happens to them and keeping readers invested is going to be very difficult.

[Anonymous No.19413846]

>>19412199
I wasn't being ironic, though

[Anonymous No.19413990]

>>19404048
Might as well just write fanfiction or hire someone else to write your novel entirely, retardo.
A "pre-built" world you write a story for will never feel as convincing as a world you built.

[Anonymous No.19414142]

How do you uphold 'show don't tell' in an epistolary story?

[Anonymous No.19414493]

>>19414142
People dont often show in journals, but plenty of historical letters go into detail about experiences. Even for epistles you have freedom to gloss over details and just tell a story or dive into the experience.

[Anonymous No.19414602]

>>19414142
Read Frankenstein.

[Anonymous No.19414611]

I have now started my 7th Vol, gonna make it lads. We all will if we keep going at it.

[Anonymous No.19414622]

>>19414611
Total wordcount? And how much time have you spent on it?