/lit/ - Literature

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/clg/ - Classical Languages General Anonymous Fri Nov 12 07:53:47 2021 No.19387091 [Reply] [Original]

Previous Thread: >>19281510

Last thread went better than expected.
So again, let's discuss current readings, frustrations and accomplishments.

Also post something you have written. Let's see people's handwritings.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 08:24:17 2021 No.19387173 Only these are Classical Arabic Chinese Greek Hebrew Latin Sanskrit Tamil(?)

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 09:21:54 2021 No.19387324 I read the part of Lucretius where he lists off all the horrible ways to be tortured today. Was very cool

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 14:20:52 2021 No.19388585 bump

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 14:29:34 2021 No.19388625 File: 22 KB, 789x750, 2a3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I started on Classical Chinese.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 14:57:50 2021 No.19388788 >>19388625 Can one of you help me with a grammar probrem?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 14:59:06 2021 No.19388797 Today I will blast a fat shit and study Greek.

Anonymous Fri Nov 12 15:12:42 2021 No.19388865
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I will never learn Greek. All I do is conjugate verbs and drill words on Anki. Nothing sticks to the unconscious. I will never intuitively recognise what mood something is. I will never be able to read Greek and enjoy it. My quality of life had significantly decreased since I started studying it but I can't stop now. I've spent too much time, too much money, talked to friends and relatives who have told their friends about it. All I will ever do for the rest of my life is conjugate.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 15:13:34 2021 No.19388869 >>19388865 >Anki ah yeah the renaissance authors used that a lot to rebuild greek

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 16:01:04 2021 No.19389056 >>19388865 you have to do some composition

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 16:07:12 2021 No.19389074 >>19388865 Δοκίμασε να μιλήσεις μαζί μου. Είμαι Έλληνας

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 17:07:27 2021 No.19389341 File: 8 KB, 211x193, 1636754766292.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19387173 >no Pali >no Syriac >no Old Church Slavonic >no Akkadian >no Coptic >no Ge'ez >no Avestan >no Tibetan

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 17:36:41 2021 No.19389474 >>19389341 all vernacular languages

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 18:59:46 2021 No.19389852 bump

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 19:39:47 2021 No.19390016 >>19389474 Akkadian, Slavonic, and Coptic all became liturgical languages.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 22:41:16 2021 No.19390675 >>19388788 Sure, what is it?

Anonymous Fri Nov 12 22:44:06 2021 No.19390682

>>19388865
Rather than studying conjugation and vocabulary out of context, read a bunch. Absorb the language through comprehensible input. That's the only way to actually acquire a language.
>>19389074
It seems fairly obvious by what thread he's posting in that he's studying ancient Greek, not modern.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 23:13:36 2021 No.19390785 File: 26 KB, 1011x543, paradigm (1).gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Have you drilled your paradigms today?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 23:15:54 2021 No.19390793 >>19387173 >>19388797 >>19388865 >>19389074 >>19390682 >>19390785 Imagine learning GAYreek, the language of sodomites, why don't you learn a real language like Arabic, instead?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 12 23:18:13 2021 No.19390810 >>19390793 >he doesn't know about arab pederasty Bros... Do we tell him

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 03:22:59 2021 No.19391625 >>19390675 Greetings anon, What's the function of 之 here: 王如知此,則無望民之多於鄰國也 and here: 參差荇菜、左右流之

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 04:03:54 2021 No.19391734 >>19387173 >Chinese cringe replace this for aramaic

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 04:04:46 2021 No.19391737 Give me the encouragement to finally take up Latin anons. Is it worth it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 05:07:48 2021 No.19391897 File: 147 KB, 683x1024, EnAcub-WEAIkId9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I love this mother fucker like you wouldn't believe

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 07:15:56 2021 No.19392252 latinbro reporting in

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 07:47:20 2021 No.19392362 Please jannies, don't ruin this. No one on /int/ cares about dead languages. Or even about living ones either, judging by how often the thread dies over there. Not to mention that they can't string two sentences together.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 07:53:11 2021 No.19392386 >>19391737 Latin's easily the best bang for the buck when it comes to classical languages. The literary corpus is vast and varied, and if you know English, you already have a big head start when it comes to vocabulary.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 08:06:49 2021 No.19392432 >>19391897 Look at how happy he is taking care of his calf

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 08:21:53 2021 No.19392484 > Hebrew > Aramaic > Syriac Does there exist anything worthwhile written in these languages for someone who isn't particularly interested in Christianity/Judaism?

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 10:00:09 2021 No.19392782
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Can someone recommend me a good Greek textbook?
I used Grekisk läsebok för nybörjare for a while but found it extremely dull. Took a peak at the Italian Athenaze and it looked pretty good but I don't speak Italian.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 10:02:19 2021 No.19392791 >>19387091 How do I start with latin on my own? Is it easier if I speak a romance language?

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 10:20:11 2021 No.19392866

>>19392791
> How do I start with latin on my own?
LLPSI + supplements. If you must, you can read the grammar sections first. YT has audio recordings for reconstructed pronunciation.

(There's one guy here vehemently opposed to LLPSI. Ask him to actually compose some Latin, and he will likely silently fuck off.)

> Is it easier if I speak a romance language?
Yes, Romance cognates help a lot and complement the ones you know from English.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 10:36:01 2021 No.19392935 File: 78 KB, 396x385, 1615742554641.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Ἀθήναζε κεφάλαιον XIX so wholesome bros

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 14:02:18 2021 No.19393839 Greek Latin Sanskrit full stop

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 14:45:20 2021 No.19394099 >>19393839 Greek used to be not really anymore Just latin and arabic now

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 14:51:51 2021 No.19394127

>>19392791
Made this post recently:
I've heard good things about the new Reading Latin by Sidwell and Jones but haven't used it. I personally am torn between two choices to recommend: First is Shelmerdine, which does a great job of explaining tricky grammar so you never really feel lost, but is too light on largish texts for you to practice on. Second is Cambridge, which has the opposite problem: great texts (seems like everybody loves Cambridge's story too), but occasionally scanty on grammar.

I never really used Wheelock but that's the other classic one people sometimes talk about. I've always wondered whether maybe it's a good balance of the Cambridge/Shelmerdine extremes?

I personally don't like LLPSI at all. But it has a minority of absolutely fanatic followers online and a couple on /lit/ in particular.

I think the most important thing is just not becoming obsessed with the "method." Latin is there to learn if you want it. You could get a grammar, that is a non-didactic reference book, and teach yourself from it if you really wanted to. With a teacher it would be even easier since he could choose how to progress through topics and prepare practice for you. But at the end of the day, all any textbook or method for learning Latin is is a particular arrangement of grammar topics, with different strategies for teaching those topics through practice (reading texts and sometimes writing although the latter is very rare nowadays).

LLPSI people seem to value the immersion (low grammar) method, Shelmerdine people seem to value more upfront "here is the shit you need to know, explained," the Cambridge authors seem slightly afraid to bombard people with grammar concepts (which may avoid frightening some, but frustrate those seeking an upfront explanation of something tricky). Most books are somewhere in between extremes.

But again, it's there to be learned, and any book or method is just a stepladder you will kick away when you get where you're going. Best advice is just to start. Five false starts is better than one ideal start that gets procrastinated forever. There are thousands of Latin primers and readers on archive.org that students of the past 200 years did just fine with.

>>19392866
I'm one of the people who dislikes LLPSI. I don't really "vehemently" oppose it as you can hopefully see above, since I don't oppose anything, but I do oppose how many people recommending LLPSI are really rather new to learning Latin and pushing the idea of immersion-based learning because they're emotionally invested in it.

As for romance language, it will help a fair bit with cognates, but not much with conjugation and only a little with grammar. Maybe it will help that you're familiar with subjunctives and subordinate clauses from your native lang, although Latin has more, and more complicated, ones.

All in all, the secret is to just start doing it. Failing and struggling are still doing. Even "cheating" with a paradigm print-out sheet is still doing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 14:53:33 2021 No.19394138 >>19392791 Gwynnes latin

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 15:07:20 2021 No.19394210

>>19394127
>I'm one of the people who dislikes LLPSI. I don't really "vehemently" oppose it as you can hopefully see above
Yeah, don't worry. I'm not even claiming that LLPSI is necessarily the best method to use for everyone, but it's the one I had a positive experience with.

The guy I meant outright claims that it's impossible for anyone to learn Latin with it, and that, despite all subjectivity, is the one thing I can safely call bullshit on.

> Best advice is just to start. Five false starts is better than one ideal start that gets procrastinated forever.
Exactly

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 15:23:16 2021 No.19394275 >>19391625 First one: Can’t really explain, but the sentence means “if the king knew this, he would not wish for the population to grow larger than his neighbors’.” Second one: 之 means “this,” referring to 荇菜

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 15:24:56 2021 No.19394279

>>19388625
How is it to read classical Chinese? I'm trying to ask this in a way that results in a 10-page autistic effortpost describing every nuance because I have a thousand questions and I don't even know where to start really

When I was in undergrad I went around asking every Chinese specialist I could how hard it would be, and they either discouraged me or didn't respond to my emails

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 15:41:09 2021 No.19394361

>>19394127
>>19394210
>As for romance language, it will help a fair bit with cognates, but not much with conjugation and only a little with grammar.
And, for perspective, I was talking about Italian, and "cognates" undersells it a bit, because, as opposed to the English cognates, you get the gender of the non-neutral 3rd declension nouns for free, which means that you almost never have to remember a noun's gender, only its declension.

There are no cases, that's true, but many of the verb tenses and conjugations are very close: forms like imperfect, imperative, present participle and gerund are intuitively recognizable to Italian speakers, even if they haven't taken a single Latin lesson.

I don't know how it is for other Romance languages, but things like these might make the immersion method more practical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 15:56:52 2021 No.19394435 >>19387091 how do I into samskrta?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 15:58:27 2021 No.19394440 >>19391897 bro it's dick-eye-ohpolis

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 16:10:54 2021 No.19394490 >>19388865 Just do the MIA method.

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 16:49:01 2021 No.19394663

>>19394361
That's not too bad, I think romance languages are much closer to English than Latin in their basic "feel" though. Specifically, I can read Italian, French, Romanian, and I never feel like I'm reading Latin, but when I read German it sometimes feels like Latin (or Greek) because it's more synthetic (inflected) and it relies more on participial phrases to supply additional information.

Romance languages feel more analytic to me. Most of the legwork of reading them is learning prepositional and idiomatic phrases. Like "dans la mesure où," "nella misura in cui" (per quanto), "în gradul în care," etc., for "insofar/inasmuch as." That feels to me much more like English, where aside from basic grammar (future/past tenses etc.), you are mostly learning vocabulary for words and idiom/phrase vocabulary for syntax/construction.

Latin has a fair bit of that too, but once you learn the core words they are mostly logical. Most of the grind comes from the synthetic (inflectional) parts, and the logical sequences of subordinating clauses.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 18:42:21 2021 No.19395253 going to get some sleep. keep the thread up till i wake up

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 18:50:23 2021 No.19395294 >>19390793 arabs' biggest intellectual achievement is cum tributing original greek texts and saying ta daaa

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 18:51:48 2021 No.19395300 >>19394127 holy moly

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 19:33:21 2021 No.19395468

>>19391625
The simple explanation of the first sentence is that it's a possessive marker. 多於鄰國 means "is more numerous than (those of) the neighboring countries" so it's literally something like "would not desire the people's being more numerous than (those of) the neighboring countries". And yeah, in the second one it's an object pronoun "this", "it". Also "him", "her", "them".
>>19391734
How's it cringe?

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 19:36:56 2021 No.19395480

>>19394279
It's a natural language like any other. The main difficulties is A, the characters (which is not as much of an issue if you already know a modern Sinosphere language), B, the fact that its cultural context is somewhat removed from yours if you're a Westerner and writers often rely on allusions that you may not understand (but the more of the canon you read, the more of the references you'll get, especially if you read good commentaries), and C, the fact that it's often rather dense and elliptical.
>>19394663
Yeah, Western Europe forms a sprachbund, that's not news.

Anonymous Sat Nov 13 19:42:56 2021 No.19395500

>>19395480
>Yeah, Western Europe forms a sprachbund, that's not news.
But the point of my post was that English (Germanic) and French (Romance) feel more similar than German (Germanic) to me, not that they all have convergent features

Admit it anon, did you just want to say Sprachbund

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 19:44:50 2021 No.19395509 >>19394127 I feel like the most important thing is that if you learn to 'decipher' Latin into your native language, you'll never actually learn to understand and use Latin that way.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 20:12:06 2021 No.19395620 >>19395500 Maybe partly. Though I think that might partly just be a 'you' thing anyway- as far as I know, French and German are generally considered more 'core' members than English.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 13 20:48:31 2021 No.19395753 >>19392484 Syriac is extremely important for Persian and Arabic history

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 02:06:52 2021 No.19396922 bump

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 02:10:21 2021 No.19396932 >>19390016 I can also speak to Ge'ez and Syriac having become liturgical languages.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 03:15:42 2021 No.19397179 >>19394490 seems pretty though with a dead language

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 03:25:31 2021 No.19397198 >>19390793 Ah yes, the language of goatfucking, much better.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 03:28:44 2021 No.19397207 >>19392386 Oh shit, I know English!

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 03:29:45 2021 No.19397213 >>19392782 Learn Italian then.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 04:43:08 2021 No.19397378 >>19387173 There are four great civilisations with two languages give or take: Western - Latin and Greek Islamic - Arabic and Persian Indian - Sanskrit and Tamil Sinic - Chinese and Japanese Literally no other languages are worthwhile.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 04:51:42 2021 No.19397395 File: 3.20 MB, 6535x6535, 1635455024437.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm not the one who asked this in the previous thread, but I am interested in an answer - is there a chart like this for Greek?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 05:28:28 2021 No.19397472 >>19397395 i don't think there is. would really appreciate if someone made one.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 06:44:49 2021 No.19397691 Taking my second semester of Latin in the Spring. Taught out of Wheelock. Over the one month break, would it be better to keep drilling from WL, or to tear into LLPSI?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 06:57:00 2021 No.19397732 >>19390016 Classcial means a non-spoken language spread across many cultures Sorry brownoid.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 06:58:01 2021 No.19397738 >>19397395 >that chart ah yes the "I want to take 30 years to read Latin" chart

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 07:09:08 2021 No.19397771 >>19397395 I'm one of the people who likes LLPSI, but this chart is... just not great. It was posted as a first version, but I don't know if the creator abandoned improving it, and improvement it needs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 07:20:50 2021 No.19397809 >>19397771 >'m one of the people who likes LLPSI But you can't speak Latin.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 07:40:10 2021 No.19397872 >>19397732 I'm not saying they're classical you retarded mongoloid. I'm saying they're liturgical.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 08:29:45 2021 No.19398014 >>19397809 Ō, tandem ades, >>19394210 Num modō nātūrāle nēminem ūllam linguam, an linguam Latīnam tantum, discere posse putās? Quid igitur est differentia inter hanc et cēterās linguās? At Latīnē respondē, prōsam tuam vidēre volumus.

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 08:49:43 2021 No.19398081

>>19397809
Ō, tandem ades,
> the guy I meant outright claims that it's impossible for anyone to learn Latin with it

Num modō nātūrāle nēminem ūllam linguam, an linguam Latīnam tantum, discere posse putās? Quae igitur est differentia inter hanc et cēterās linguās?

At Latīnē respondē, prōsam tuam vidēre volumus.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 08:51:35 2021 No.19398086 File: 55 KB, 258x360, 1633294945305.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19397198

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 08:52:32 2021 No.19398088
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>>19394275
>>19395468
Thanks chums. I've one more 之 related question.
>百姓安之
is translated by Legge as "the people reposed under him" and by Bloom as "the hundred surnames were at peace". Legge translates 之 as "him", refering to the aforementioned ruler Yao whereas Bloom's is different, I interpret Bloom's as being used like the 的 in "不安的" in normal Chinese, sorry I don't know grammar terminology, like the marker of an adjective, in this case 安. The dictionary gives 廣莫之野 from Zhuangzi as an example of this kinda usage. Who is right? How do both 安 and 之 work in this line?

I've two Chinese editions of Mencius with modern translations, the first translates it as "百姓安居乐业" going with Bloom? However the second translates it as "百姓很满意他", implying, I think, that like Legge 安 is verb and 之 is "him" but it's the 百姓 that are verbing (安) him (之), rather than being 安’d by him. I'm confused and possibly retarded. Please be patient.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 09:11:27 2021 No.19398138 >>19397872 >I'm saying they're liturgical. This is a Classical language thread

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 12:51:30 2021 No.19399062 >>19397378 Pali and Tibetan are also quite important

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 13:00:45 2021 No.19399104

Grew up speaking Sanskrit (I'm Brahmin) so got a good headstart there. If anyone has any questions related to the grammar or vocabulary or texts or translation help, go ahead and ask!

I'm currently learning Attic via Griechisher Lehrgang. I highly recommend it. It dives straight into real attic literature right from chapter one.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 13:06:26 2021 No.19399134 >>19399104 >Griechisher Lehrgang german? Can a non-german speaker understand?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 13:06:49 2021 No.19399136 How do I go about learning Syriac?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 13:19:57 2021 No.19399208 >>19399134 I think he means Griechischer Lehrgang by Zuntz.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 13:22:17 2021 No.19399225 >>19399062 Don't know about Tibetan. But the only Pali literature is the Theravadan canon. Virtually no secular literature.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 14:34:33 2021 No.19399666 bump

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 15:24:23 2021 No.19399939

>>19392866
> There's one guy here vehemently opposed to LLPSI. Ask him to actually compose some Latin, and he will likely silently fuck off.

>>19397771
> A: I like LLPSI
>>19397809
> B: OnE cAn'T lEaRN lAtIn wItH LLPSI
>>19398081
> A: Aliquod Latīnē scrībe!
>>
> B: [crickets, 6 hours and counting]

Like clockwork.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 15:30:07 2021 No.19399965 >>19399939 you're kind of proving the point about the llpsi fans being a cult

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 15:31:13 2021 No.19399975 >>19399965 also before you do the alternating capital letters thing at me i am only learning so i am not saying i'm an expert. i'm saying your behavior is agressive

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 15:46:18 2021 No.19400057

>>19399965
In what way? As I said before, I don't even claim that LLPSI is the best method there is, only that I like it. Seems profoundly un-cultish to me.

But if someone claims that it's impossible to learn Latin from it, of course I'm going to call that person out, especially if he's unable to match even the modest level of Latin I learned from it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 16:44:56 2021 No.19400304 keep the thread up till the morning for me boys

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 16:55:39 2021 No.19400342 >>19399208 I mean "could i understand the book?"

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 16:59:06 2021 No.19400350 >>19400342 Ah, sorry. But there seems to be an English version of it as well, if you're interested.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:02:53 2021 No.19400372 I lied about knowing Latin, but I don't. Now I have just a few months to learn it and to study a lot of works in Latin. I'm an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:03:46 2021 No.19400382 Downloaded the 36 lectures of "Latin 101 - Learning a Classical Language" from The Great Courses. Should I watch those first before LLPSI, alongside, or after?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:09:08 2021 No.19400415 >>19400372 >study a lot of works in Latin That's probably the bigger problem than just getting some basic competency in the language. What are those works?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:09:51 2021 No.19400419 1>>19397738 I unironically do - I'm a linguist first and a literatus second, so the top right corner of the chart is a lot more interesting to me than the bottom left.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:12:09 2021 No.19400429 >>19400415 >What are those works? Cicero's De Amicitia, one of the books from Virgil's Aeneid and a bunch of excerpts from other works.

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:32:13 2021 No.19400543

>>19400415
Read the Sermon on the Mount from the Vulgate next to the Douay English. The speech is famous enough that you probably already know parts of it, and was originally written in simple enough Greek, that you'll pick it up in an instant. Same reason some Greek elementary teachers often read parts of the NT to their kids when teaching them Greek; the language is a lot more conversational and simple than English translations often make you think.

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:47:14 2021 No.19400622
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>>19400429
It's not that much, but it's Cicero and Virgil. The first part of LLPSI (until chapter 36 in pic related) could be done in two months, but it's still quite a gap to those two guys.

It depends on how much time you can devote to it, and if you already know a Romance language.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:48:16 2021 No.19400625 >>19400622 > chapter 36 chapter 35

Anonymous Sun Nov 14 17:50:30 2021 No.19400635

>>19398088
I think this is a 使動用法, so it translates literally as "the peasantry were made calm by this," but the "by this" part isn't really necessary.

I don't know much more about it, but my Japanese crib has the whole context, that is
>是天受之、使之主事時事治、百姓安之、是民受之也
as "That is, Heaven accepted it/him (之). And by having [a person accepted by Heaven (之)] be the ruler, earthly affairs were calmed, and the peasantry were at peace. That is, the people accepted it/him (之)." Which agrees with Bloom's interpretation more, but I don't think Legge is wrong exactly.

As an aside, Bloom's "hundred surnames" is a ridiculously bad translation coming from Japanese, where 百姓 just means peasant. I don't know if it's less common in modern Chinese.

>like the 的 in normal Chinese
之 is sometimes used like this (equivalent to Japanese の), like in the wonderful 五穀輪迴之所 (= "the place of five-grain transubstantiation" = the toilet) from 西遊記.

>I'm confused and possibly retarded
Welcome to classical Chinese, you will learn to enjoy this feeling

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 18:48:40 2021 No.19400952 A multireddit for classical languages. https://old.reddit.com/user/terpomo11/m/classicallanguages/

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 21:08:16 2021 No.19401745 >>19399134 You're aware French and German indisputably have the best language learning resources, right? No point learning classical languages until you've achieved proficiency in German and French.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 21:11:20 2021 No.19401768 >>19401745 Better even than English, even though it's the de facto world language in the modern day?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 14 22:25:28 2021 No.19402091 >>19400635 I’m assuming you know Japanese as well. Do you have a preferred resource for learning classical Japanese? Is this even something Japanese adults ever do or am I supposed to buy high school kobun textbooks?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 01:29:28 2021 No.19402711 >>19397732 No it doesn't.

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 02:30:29 2021 No.19402861

>>19402091
Adults certainly do it, but I suppose the introductory textbooks are mostly aimed at junior high and high school students because that’s where the money is.

I would start with a book like this (). If you’re in Japan just hit a bookstore and see what catches your eye in the juken section or the general linguistics section.
> http://asakura.co.jp/detail.php?book_code=51526

Pretty much as soon as you have the basics down you can read 学問のすゝめ (Fukuzawa Yukichi). It’s so close to modern Japanese it barely counts, but it’s a good way to ease your way in. After that it depends what you want to read, but Basho’s 奥の細道 isn’t too hard I guess. You’ll need a 古典 dictionary though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 09:38:58 2021 No.19403869 >>19387091 >Also post something you have written. Let's see people's handwritings. Quis manū scrībit adhūc?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 11:29:27 2021 No.19404296 >>19397378 THIS

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 11:43:56 2021 No.19404361 >>19401745 If you have to snobpost, at least mention the titles for the benefit of speakers of those languages. I guess Zuntz is the German choice one for Greek. What else? What's the best one for Latin?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 13:28:50 2021 No.19404852 Is there anything good written in India's classical languages?

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 15:23:24 2021 No.19405336

>LLPSI is a cult
not really. we just love the book and are amazed at how effective it was for us so we want to tell other people. that's it. it's like when you find an amazing album and you recommend it to your friends.

also when i recommend LLPSI, i never say it'll teach you perfect Latin and that you'll be able to read Cicero. i always tell people it'll "get you addicted to latin" which is what it did for me

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 15:39:17 2021 No.19405395 >>19387091 Where is this pic from?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 15:58:49 2021 No.19405467 to those that are currently learning. quidquid agis, prudenter agas

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 16:03:02 2021 No.19405481 File: 11 KB, 209x241, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Romanus antiquus hic. Roga me quodvis

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 16:06:27 2021 No.19405500 >>19402861 ty anon I will follow your advice. My goal is to be able to read and enjoy poetry like manyoushuu without modern Japanese paraphrases.

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 16:12:44 2021 No.19405521

>>19402861
>ゆえに学問には文字を知ること必要なれども、古来世の人の思うごとく、ただ文字を読むのみをもって学問とするは大なる心得違いなり。
>Thus it is necessary to know how to read in order to study, but as our forebears well knew, it is a grave error to think that the mere reading of words alone is sufficient to constitute learning.

Fukuzawa BTFO'd /lit/ in one sentence

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 16:26:03 2021 No.19405556

>>19405336
I think the cult accusations come from the extreme sensitivity to incredulity on the other side of the aisle. That and the tone of
>HUH? HUH? GOT NO ANSWER FOR THAT? HUH? COMPOSE ME SOMETHING IN LATIN RIGHT NOW, YEAH THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT, YEAH, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T DO IT

I am a comprehensible input guy, so I don't mind LLPSI at all other than personally disliking it. The only thing I've ever minded is that there ARE people who claim pure immersion without grammar study is sufficient. It's just not true. They are fascinated by the idea of immersion, maybe because of bad experiences with a traditional Latin class, but they take this and turn immersion into a metaphilosophy of life itself.

I only ever want to add that caveat that the best way to learn Latin is comprehensible input, agreed, but comprehensible input where you can put your hand up while reading and say "I'm lost, what is happening in this passage?" and your teacher, tutor, or friend can say "oh that's probably the ablative of respect, it's kinda weird" or "oh that's the dative of possession, it's kind of weird." And then maybe prepare a few exercises, examples, and sample texts for you so you can practice recognizing it.

To me, a book is a simulation of friend/tutor/teacher who knows grammar. That's it.

Also I sometimes find LLPSI enthusiasts a bit short sighted in their disdain for abstract grammar learning. It's not just about Latin. I have learned several other languages using the ability to view grammar abstractly that I first learned from Latin class. I was able to learn extremely challenging languages and skip the worst initial parts of their learning curves because I could go "yeah yeah this is just Latin grammar with a few addons/exceptions." That is one of the greatest parts of learning classical languages, it demystifies language acquisition in general.

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 16:44:00 2021 No.19405608
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>>19405500
If you have specific works you're interested in, the Kadokawa Beginner's Classics series is a good place to start after you know the basic grammar. They have an abridged version of the classical text with a translation into modern Japanese, and an explanation of the historical context that's really key to understanding anything from pre-Edo times.

Manyoshu specifically is written in a different script (万葉仮名) so reading it unaided will probably be quite a long-term goal. You might find it more profitable and pleasurable to research later tanka and haiku poetry to read on the way. That said, with the exception of the monumental classics like Manyoshu and Hyakunin-Isshu, Japanese people generally consider poetry to be something you do, not something you read. Once you have a sense for it, just start composing, or even translating English poetry into traditional Japanese forms.

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 17:22:29 2021 No.19405776

>>19405556
> COMPOSE ME SOMETHING IN LATIN RIGHT NOW
If "RIGHT NOW" means "in the next couple of hours", uh, yes? People with THIS strong opinions about a textbook should be able to back them up with SOME knowledge of the subject.

Maybe you're assuming that anyone who cares enough about Latin to comment about LLPSI clears that low bar, but you'd be surprised: https://desuarchive.org/int/thread/153237229/#153247556
Note that the original post in that thread is exactly the same kind of useless contrarian one-liner as this thread's "But you can't speak Latin": https://desuarchive.org/int/thread/153237229/#153246408

This has played out so many times here and on /int/, if you care to look into the archives, and it always follows the script outlined above, which is why I assume it's the same guy. It's all so tiresome.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 17:28:06 2021 No.19405801 >>19405776 Isn't it possible he's just trolling you at that point because he knows he can say one line and get "FUCK YOU BITCH FIGHT ME" responses?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 17:29:25 2021 No.19405806 >>19405336 It's also sort of baffling because, even if you start with LLPSI, you can always read other textbooks afterwards. It's not as though once you've completed Familia Romana you can't read Wheelock.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 17:31:06 2021 No.19405814 ὁ Δικαιόπολις ἐστὶν ἀθηναῖος·

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 17:33:10 2021 No.19405826 File: 81 KB, 1110x1400, 1625169871715.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19389341 >>no Coptic

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 17:35:22 2021 No.19405837 >>19397378 Turks and South East Asians absolutely seething at this post

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 18:03:17 2021 No.19405967

>>19405801
This has been going on before I've even taken up Latin (which means he could easily have learned some, if he tried).

He typically shows up when someone suggests LLPSI to newcomers, who have no reason to disbelieve his claims that it's impossible to learn anything from it. I'm hoping to demonstrate to those that he's full of shit, otherwise I wouldn't care.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 19:08:17 2021 No.19406219 >>19397378 I would remove arabic. I would add Hebrew / Aramaic Arabic is not a classical language

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 19:10:47 2021 No.19406234 >>19406219 Classical Arabic absolutely is a classical language, with prose, poetry, and philosophical works.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 19:14:26 2021 No.19406250 >>19406219 >>19406234 And to add, I also consider Hebrew and Aramaic to be classical languages, but do they have any secular works? Do they really lose to Arabic, of all things, in this category?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 20:18:51 2021 No.19406571 >>19391734 Classical Chinese is literally called Classical Chinese.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 20:47:39 2021 No.19406715 File: 92 KB, 1600x1200, 0108-021937[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19403869 Here's something I copied out in Classical Chinese, and then a bunch of 永s to use up the rest of the ink. I know it's not that good.

Anonymous Mon Nov 15 20:56:43 2021 No.19406756

>>19405481
Quomodo ad tempus nostrum advenisti?
>>19405556
Partly just playing devil's advocate here, but you never explicitly studied the grammar of your native language and you came out speaking it fluently anyway, didn't you? And people have been speaking since long before the formal study of grammar existed. (Also, you do realize that LLPSI has sections that explicitly teach grammar, right? It just introduces it with examples first, and then explains it.)

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 22:19:21 2021 No.19407138 Guys, Ancient Greek sounds really ugly. Why didn’t you guys tell me beforehand?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 22:23:02 2021 No.19407152 >>19407138 Which pronunciation?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 15 23:03:46 2021 No.19407319 >>19406715 Impressive, very nice >>19405814 ναί, ἐστίν.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 01:40:55 2021 No.19407866 >>19387324 in what work of his?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 02:32:13 2021 No.19407973 >>19404852 top of my head anything by kalidasa mrichhakatikam (little clay cart) by sudraka kathasaritrasagar

Anonymous Tue Nov 16 07:13:19 2021 No.19408615
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blogspot re: my ongoing filtering by classical chinese (thanks to anon above again for his help)
>故湯之於伊尹,學焉而後臣之
for 學焉, Legge and Bloom both write "learned of", Hinton less word-for-word writes "took as teacher" implying "learned from" - there's a massive difference between learning of and learning from
my Chinese editions both write 向他学习, i.e learned from

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 07:14:26 2021 No.19408616 >>19408615 *blogpost, anagram-ish typo there

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 07:35:28 2021 No.19408661 >>19407152 erasmus

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 08:45:38 2021 No.19408904 >In a dictionary, Latin verbs are listed with four "principal parts" (or fewer for deponent and defective verbs), which allow the student to deduce the other conjugated forms of the verbs. Is there a chart that spells it out?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 08:54:18 2021 No.19408936 >>19408904 Probably best to just pick some regular word and look at its conjugation table: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carpo#Latin It should be easy to see which forms are made from which root.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 09:00:02 2021 No.19408962 >>19406250 Nope. Virtually no-one used Hebrew prior to the 20th century revival except Rabbis studying the Tanakh. Even Jewish philosophers like Maimonides wrote in Arabic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 09:10:02 2021 No.19408995 >>19408936 I think it's easier with an irregular verb like fero since the differences are more distinct, but even then it's still not clear which forms are formed from the first part and which from the second.

Anonymous Tue Nov 16 09:15:40 2021 No.19409014

>>19408995
The problem with irregular verbs is that you don't know in which respect they're irregular, so it's hard to generalize from them.

> it's still not clear which forms are formed from the first part and which from the second.
Do you mean the first person and the infinite here? I actually wanted to link capere, not carpere: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capio#Latin
for precisely this reason: it's an io-variant of the third conjugation, and that's, as far as I know, the only reason the first person is part of the four principal parts.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 09:22:18 2021 No.19409049 >>19409014 >it's an io-variant of the third conjugation, and that's, as far as I know, the only reason the first person is part of the four principal parts. Oh, that's all it's for. Thank you, this clears it up.

Anonymous Tue Nov 16 09:29:25 2021 No.19409085

>>19408962
I have, since asking my question, found out that there are plenty of medieval poems written in Hebrew (even though the very same authors used Arabic in their prose).

There's also a travel report of Benjamin of Tudela.

Beats Aramaic then, I guess.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 09:59:13 2021 No.19409215 File: 208 KB, 909x1299, 1908175_b_6681.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19409085 Well Aramaic became Syriac, which like Hebrew was basically all devotional works. But yes, the guy saying Arabic isn't a classical language is retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 10:04:27 2021 No.19409236 >>19409085 > plenty of medieval poems written in Hebrew Those seem to be written in classicising style, so they're basically Biblical Hebrew, but many of them plainly secular. Mental I've never heard of it before.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 11:56:59 2021 No.19409700 >>19406756 > Quomodo ad tempus nostrum advenisti? Fortasse modo exspectāvit?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 16:10:33 2021 No.19411140 >>19409236 intredasting

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 16:23:44 2021 No.19411221 >>19407866 He only has one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 16:31:55 2021 No.19411274 >>19407319 Aw, thank you, you really think so? >>19408615 If by 'learned of' you mean 'became aware of the existence of', I don't think 學 can mean that. >>19409700 Nemo MM annos vivere potest.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 18:16:36 2021 No.19411819 >>19398081 all wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 18:31:24 2021 No.19411890 Any recommended resources for learning Persian?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 19:24:01 2021 No.19412100 >>19411819 NO U

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 16 23:09:19 2021 No.19413154 Is it worth starting off with modern equivalents of a language before learning their classical forms?

Anonymous Tue Nov 16 23:45:01 2021 No.19413283

>>19390682
>Rather than studying conjugation and vocabulary out of context, read a bunch. Absorb the language through comprehensible input. That's the only way to actually acquire a language.

But what's the best way to learn enough so I can actually read it?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 00:21:29 2021 No.19413419 >>19397395 >no Allen and Greenough this is why you shouldn't trust anything on 4chan

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 00:23:44 2021 No.19413425

>>19413283
You can start reading before you’re really able to understand anything. Open the text of your choice to page 1, look up the first word on Wiktionary or whatever. If it’s conjugated, look up what the tense means. Repeat for the second word. Do one sentence a day if that’s all you can handle. It will fry your brain but it’s absolutely the fastest way to learn to read. Eventually you’ll be sick of looking up conjugated forms and you will take to paradigms like a thirsty traveler at an oasis.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 00:28:10 2021 No.19413445

>>19413154
Not really, it's common wisdom in almost all Ancient Greek classes not to do this. It might help a small amount if you already know Greek or a Romance language for some cognates, but that's about it. Most people don't do it. But if you are gonna learn modern Greek anyway or some shit, and you find it helps, hey go for it.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 00:34:27 2021 No.19413468

This is my mega, made a couple years ago. It is far from complete but I ran into a space issue. I almost never browse /lit/ and stumbled here by mistake.
Good luck to all, I hope this aids you in your studies.
https://mega.nz/folder/9o4QEIIK#P3piz8Bfw-z7jgb7Q8NWDg

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 02:07:58 2021 No.19413692 >>19411274 Not 學 but 學焉. And I disagree with that translation, it seems much more likely to be "learned from", but two major English translations go with "learned of".

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 03:18:49 2021 No.19413821

>>19413154
Learning one language just to learn another isn't even a good idea when learning living languages. Just go for the one you want to learn straight away.

I wouldn't recommend that anyone learns Swedish, Norwegian, or Icelandic just to learn Old Norse, for example. It's literally better for everyone involved if you just got into ON right away, instead of beating around the bush and wasting your time and potentially developing unsound habits that won't apply to ON anyway.

>ask me anything about ON btw

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 04:37:11 2021 No.19414005

>>19398088
>it's the 百姓 that are verbing him, rather than being 安'd by him.
Yes and no. Here, both translations are correct. 安 here is similar to 安心. It carries the meaning of approval, hence the next sentence. But, here's the interesting thing, in order for people to be at peace, first you as a king need to be competent enough to make them be at peace. That means, you need to do something to them, so that they will respond approvingly. So 安 here behaves more like a state than a verb.

>>19400635
>Bloom's "hundred surnames" is a ridiculously bad translation ...
Yay, it's too literal. He isn't wrong however. It originally refers to the top 100 surnames in Chinese. In ancient time, these surnames usually imply an aristocratic status, so it doesn't necessarily mean commoner as we know it today. Though of course, in modern time we just read it as common people.

>>19413692
It's most definitely "learnt from", otherwise the text makes no sense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 05:12:12 2021 No.19414070 For the guy who is asking questions about Chinese grammar, check out Pulleyblank's "Outline of Classical Chinese Grammar". It has grammar explanations of the exact sentences you are posting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 06:43:24 2021 No.19414251 >>19388865 One half is declination, conjugation, second half is translating via construction method.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 08:36:38 2021 No.19414522 >>19413468 Stuck "decrypting folder data"

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 08:49:44 2021 No.19414566 >>19414522 Don't bother. It's some schizo rambling about how you shouldn't read the Attic tragedians because they're cultists or something.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 08:51:21 2021 No.19414573 >>19414251 what's the construction method?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 09:44:55 2021 No.19414802 >classical language thread >people just name every old language as classical

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 10:04:17 2021 No.19414867 >>19414802 What makes a language classical?

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 10:11:02 2021 No.19414900

There's no modern language thread but I want to post this somewhere. I've been using that LingQ website after a year or two of seeing Steve Kaufmann (a language learning channel) shill it on youtube, and it's fucking amazing. It costs $10 a month and the free version is worthless though.

The way it works is you input text or use their prepared texts, and every time a new word occurs, it's highlighted in blue. So when you start out, everything will be in blue, but by the time you've gone through one text, all the words you didn't click on will go from Blue (unknown/new) to plain text (assumes you know it).

But the main feature is, you can click on words or phrases you have trouble with, and it will highlight them in yellow until you decide they are "known." When you click them a suggested definition will pop up instantly. The most amazing part of this is how good the algorithmic and user-suggested definitions are. It's so worn-in that compound phrases, idioms, and conjugated forms are almost always caught and you instantly get a result, no having to look it up in the dictionary or enter it into a translate program manually.

When you turn to a new page, any words the program hasn't seen you deal with before will be in blue, and any words you've had trouble with before and clicked on will be in yellow. So every time you go to a new page, you have a basic sense of how rough it's going to be.

I can't believe I never used it until now. It's great for daily reading practice. I've just been putting news and wikipedia articles into it (there's a browser extension). It takes all the annoying dictionary lookup parts out of reading, and visually knowing how rough a page is going to be is fantastic.

Thought I would recommend it on /lit/, but like I said it is roughly $10/mo and the free version is not usable (you can't do the yellow clicking thing more than a few times which is the whole point). I swear I am not a shill.

It has Latin as one of its suggested languages but I don't know if it would hold up for Latin.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 10:12:16 2021 No.19414903 >>19414900 Also I imagine it would be especially useful for languages that rely on uninflected languages that rely on radicals?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 10:14:02 2021 No.19414909 Also I imagine it would be especially useful for uninflected languages that rely on radicals? Chinese is one of its supported langs but I can't vouch. And presumably that's not classical Chinese. Still worth checking out maybe.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 10:48:48 2021 No.19415037 File: 107 KB, 720x1520, Screenshot_20211118-004627.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19414566 what are you talking about? think before you speak. >>19414522 works on my phone and PC

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 11:32:31 2021 No.19415211 Is it just me or does Greek have an insane amount of vocabulary? Feels like every writer comes with their own lexicon. Having to constantly reference dictionaries what turned me off from my studies the most, far more than the grammar.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 11:46:29 2021 No.19415275 >>19414867 Being unspoken and used across many cultures

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 11:57:33 2021 No.19415342

>>19415211
I would really like to see a list of vocabulary sizes of classical languages, as that is the only hard part of language acquisition once you reach an intermediate level.

Sure, it will just be an approximate guess, but still better than the ridiculous claims of word counts in the millions made by some nationalist cranks.

40k for classical Latin seems to be in the right ballpark, and 7k for Biblical Hebrew (if you look at the OT only). Anyone able to take a guess for other languages?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:00:26 2021 No.19415357 >>19415211 I've heard that but I've also read with the most common 5k words well hammered down you'll largely be able to read even Plato.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:02:56 2021 No.19415372 >>19415342 How hard is it to learn Biblical Hebrew, just for the Bible? Especially if you're already quite familiar with the Bible?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:08:06 2021 No.19415388 >>19415372 Someone else will have to answer that. I'm interested in learning it myself, that's why I recently looked up the vocabulary size.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:24:18 2021 No.19415447

>>19415388
Doing a bit of googling about it now. A few resources are saying that 600 words make up 80% of the Old Testament and 1800-2000 make up 90%. I wonder if just learning the script, key words, and basic grammar would be enough to start at least working on it in a fun way. It would be nice to at least know or be able to look up the key nouns and verbs in every sentence.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:31:12 2021 No.19415471 >>19415447 Yes, I've read somewhere that after learning the 2k most common words, you know everything that occurs more than 50 times or so, and for the rest you can rely on a glossed version like Zondervan's.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:31:22 2021 No.19415472

>>19415447
Update, just found this anki deck
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/819202036

I went through and suspended all the listening comprehension test cards and English-to-Hebrew cards since I'm only interested in reading/listening. Maybe if I autistically grind this for a few days I will be able to read a few sentences.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:33:07 2021 No.19415479 >>19415471 Cool, thank you! I have an interlinear Greek from back when I was learning Koine but this Zondervan looks even better.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:39:40 2021 No.19415516 >>19415479 >>19415472 Oh shit, seems I misremembered! It's only 700 words, even better. Do you already know the grammar? As far as I understand "words" in context are "semitic roots", where meaning varies depending on the conjugation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:52:19 2021 No.19415569 >>19399225 Plenty of secular poetry but otherwise yeah. Pali is synthetic prakit designed to be the conveyor of the three baskets

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:53:53 2021 No.19415574 >>19392386 Plus there's a shit ton of medieval religious philosophy no one has translated yet, instead they just keep doing the same books by the same ancient Roman authors over and over.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 12:55:24 2021 No.19415580 >>19395500 English is a mutt language, that's why

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 13:00:03 2021 No.19415598

>>19415516
Nothing aside from absolute basics from a failed attempt at learning Arabic years ago. Trying to see how much I could reasonably crash course myself, to do the same diminishing returns/frequency strategy as with the vocabulary. But so far I'm realizing this is not something I can do for fun on weekends..

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 13:03:41 2021 No.19415615
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>>19387091
New to Latin, currently working through an Ovid text. I stepped away from my Latin after cramming it literally every day for like 4 months and now I'm losing it. Just have to reestablish my rhythm again. Does anyone else use Perseus? I can't believe how much of a miracle it is. It makes me feel so spoiled thinking that just a few decades ago people didn't have this luxury and had to parse everything manually. Like, I was googling every term and parsing into a table with wikitionary and even THAT took a considerable amount of time compared with the ease of Perseus.
If you're studying Latin, what are some pithy things that you enjoy? I'm liking Ovid but it can be pretty challenging at times and I have a desire for something shorter to commit to memory, like Aesop or something. Listening to Ovid read on youtube tho-- it is truly musical.
>Obstipuere diu, rumpitque silentia voce
>Pyrrha prior iussisque deae parere recusat,
>detque sibi veniam pavido rogat ore, pavetque
>laedere iactatis maternas ossibus umbras.
>Interea repetunt caecis obscura latebris
>verba datae sortis secum inter seque volutant.
>Inde Promethides placidis Epimethida dictis
>mulcet et “aut fallax” ait “est sollertia nobis,
>aut pia sunt nullumque nefas oracula suadent.
>Magna parens terra est, lapides in corpore terrae
>ossa reor dici; iacere hos post terga iubemur.”

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 13:23:03 2021 No.19415693 >>19415598 Another update, enjoying this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFT5h-JsGlU

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 13:25:11 2021 No.19415697 >>19415598 >>19415693 I've only watched a few videos of Aleph with Beth. No idea how far the entire series would take you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 13:52:28 2021 No.19415815 >>19415598 > Nothing aside from absolute basics from a failed attempt at learning Arabic years ago. Was that classical Arabic? As far as I know, the vocabulary size of Quranic Arabic is comparable to OT Hebrew.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 15:02:38 2021 No.19416152

>>19415342
> the ridiculous claims of word counts in the millions made by some nationalist cranks
Looking at you, Sanskrit.
> no, sir, pls understand that u can create new sanskrit terms by combining existing terms, so the number is actually infinite!!
Fuck off.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 15:03:31 2021 No.19416157

I know there's a companion for Roma Aeterna, which I plan on using, but is there any other supplement that verifies what is being said in the chapters? I will be studying with RA soon and want to be sure that I'm understanding the material. Is the one supplement enough?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 17:24:39 2021 No.19416816 >>19416152 >Looking at you, Sanskrit. kek

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 19:23:49 2021 No.19417525 >>19415472 thanks anon

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 20:03:02 2021 No.19417704 File: 165 KB, 840x709, thumb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Just stopping by to say I admire you classical language nogs. After I become proficient in French I want to get deeper into Latin.

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 20:09:08 2021 No.19417731
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>>19417704
Just remember anybody can do it, 80% of the battle is just the initial diving in and making a mess of it for a few months. I admire French learners more at this point because I still feel like trying to read or speak French is like trying to make Michelangelo's David out of wet macaroni.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 17 21:02:41 2021 No.19418024 >>19415615 Martial. Short and sweet

Anonymous Wed Nov 17 21:09:33 2021 No.19418063

I am wanting to read Plato. Are there specific translations I should target or does it not matter much? There is a completed works but not going to buy it just yet if I need to consider translations. I know this isn't really the correct place to ask but I don't want to waste a thread on it. I am monolingual so please no obvious comments about learning greek.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 00:26:25 2021 No.19418983 >>19397378 THis. and someone should make a chart for learning each of these. Unfortunately I don't have any books beyond learning Latin.

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 00:38:18 2021 No.19419044

>>19418063
There is a lot of variety in translations, some are bad some are good, most are just "fine." Even before I knew Greek, I advanced to a point of knowledge of basic Greek metaphysical vocabulary that I DESPERATELY needed the Greek text available side by side with the English, even if I could only read key words. This is because one of my main interests in Plato is watching how key metaphysical and logical language first emerged in human civilization, Plato being a major figure in this, and I didn't want English circumlocutions or "equivalents," I wanted to know how Plato was really thinking and appropriating the Greek language.

So the only answer for me was to get Loebs or similar parallel editions. I remember I just couldn't stand the Reeve Republic anymore, and the big red Collected Works edition just had me going to Perseus every ten seconds to look up the Greek.

Loebs also tend to be literal, unfancy translations, which is another bonus because at least not so much of Plato's thought is "hidden" behind English circumlocutions.

For these reasons, I would recommend Loebs, or at the very least, similarly literal/unfancy translations. Even if you never plan to learn Greek, you can get a lot of joy out of figuring out what the key noun is in a passage of Plato or Aristotle. With Aristotle it's particularly important because modern translators often cram Aristotle into logical categories and language that they presume to be universally conceptually/linguistically valid, when in reality, Aristotle stands at the BEGINNING of the entire tradition that LED to those terms being invented and becoming habitual in the first place, so don't you think it's important to see the originals first? For example would you rather think Aristotle used the bloodless abstract term "essence" from whole cloth, or would you rather know this:
>Aristotle turns in Ζ.4 to a consideration of the next candidate for substance: essence. (‘Essence’ is the standard English translation of Aristotle’s curious phrase to ti ên einai, literally “the what it was to be” for a thing. This phrase so boggled his Roman translators that they coined the word essentia to render the entire phrase, and it is from this Latin word that ours derives. Aristotle also sometimes uses the shorter phrase to ti esti, literally “the what it is,” for approximately the same idea.) In his logical works, Aristotle links the notion of essence to that of definition (horismos)—“a definition is an account (logos) that signifies an essence” (Topics 102a3)—and he links both of these notions to a certain kind of per se predication (kath’ hauto, literally, “in respect of itself,” or “intrinsically“)—”what belongs to a thing in respect of itself belongs to it in its essence (en tôi ti esti)”

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 00:55:29 2021 No.19419126 >>19419044 Thank you for the detailed response anon. I will consider what you have said and do some browsing around. Learning Greek would be more ideal of course but my life does not allow for it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 01:01:04 2021 No.19419145 >>19418063 John Burnet is the way to go >I am monolingual so blah blah.... why not learn a language then? it's not as hard as you may think. download LLPSI and you'll be amazed

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 01:05:37 2021 No.19419169

>>19419145
Well I am in my 20s and have only ever known one language. Languages are harder to learn in adulthood for monolinguals or so is the general impression. I am also frankly not incredibly intelligent, I think learning a difficult language properly would take me about a decade and it is not worth it.

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 01:18:53 2021 No.19419206

>>19419044
You are in the other thread as well
>Loebs also tend to be literal, unfancy translations
This is flat out wrong. Loeb is infamous for poor translations. If you absolutely must have a parallel edition of an obscure work they can suffice but no one serious about reading Latin or Greek relies on them.
The best way to learn is to read as much as possible in the target language. If you need a translation there are all sorts available to download. Loeb provides tje worst of both worlds - sloppy, poor translations and uncritical versions of text.
Oxford Classical Texts are the definitive sources for authentic Latin and Greek. Have them open in one tab and a translation in another.
inb4 'I don't like their translation' again, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 02:03:27 2021 No.19419328

>>19419206
The newer Loebs are already infamous? Shorey is infamous? That's news to me.

In any case, yes, the main point of my post was that an adequate parallel is better than a literary non-parallel. Loebs are cheap and everywhere. The anon wasn't requesting a critical edition, he's not a philologist and not even interested in learning Greek, I was just suggesting that ANY middle of the road Greek translation will do fine if you can basically follow the original Greek in the parallel text for major key words. And I guess I don't find Shorey's Republic "infamously" terrible.

No need to be so catty about it. People like you are why I come to /lit/ to talk about this stuff instead of having to suppress my wince when I see this kind of bitchy venom because you saw an opportunity to one-up someone with pedantry. If you have criticisms or think someone is giving bad advice just say it without being a douche.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 03:55:48 2021 No.19419657 >>19419328 You are giving bad advice. For reasons why see >>19419206

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 04:07:01 2021 No.19419694 >>19419206 The Loeb translations of Plato are fairly literal and are nearly identical with Burnet's critical text. Maybe this is true for certain other works, but their translations of Plato look perfectly fine.

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 07:56:48 2021 No.19420276

>>19416152
>>19416816
Greek is also notorious for this shit, up to the minister of education some years ago.

> I would really like to see a list of vocabulary sizes of classical languages
Here someone estimates around 200,000 lemmata for Ancient Greek:
https://hellenisteukontos.blogspot.com/2009/06/lerna-ii-definitions.html
Substantially more than Classical Latin, but fewer than English. Sounds about right.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 11:45:07 2021 No.19421165 Where does one start?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 11:50:24 2021 No.19421188 File: 38 KB, 474x669, mnjk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19421165

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 12:40:38 2021 No.19421429 >>19421188 Lingva balls

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 13:48:45 2021 No.19421789 >>19387091 how long will it take me to learn enough Greek to be able to read the entire New Testament?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 14:58:35 2021 No.19422092 >>19421789 How much time every day are you going to study?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 15:04:15 2021 No.19422115 >>19422092 I dunno, I can spare a good hour of serious, focused study in an evening. I can spend more time here and there leisurely reading to consolidate what I've learned.

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 15:48:04 2021 No.19422335

>>19413154
Only if there's essentially no resources for the classical form in a language you already speak. For instance, I don't know of any resources for Classical Japanese that aren't either in Japanese, or assume knowledge of modern Japanese. But otherwise, like >>19413821 said, go for the language you actually want to learn. If you already know a related language it'll help, but don't learn a modern language just for the sake of learning an older one.
>>19413425
Does that really work if you stick with it? I've given it a stab but I got frustrated pretty quickly. Have you learned a language that way?
>>19414573
Doesn't it refer to grammar translation? i.e. the method that doesn't work for actually acquiring a language.
>>19415357
In any language, it's diminishing returns, see Zipf's law and the Pareto principle.
>>19419169
You already learnt fluent English. It's not as hard as you think.

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 15:52:00 2021 No.19422358

>>19421789
There are a ton of variables to this (if you already have prior knowledge of grammatical concepts, e.g. what's the difference between verb tense and verb mood, if you are a monolingual starting from scratch, how well your memory works and retains new info, your mental stamina, the time you have to dedicate to study, if you form a daily habit, etc)

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 15:56:27 2021 No.19422369

>>19421789
There are methods focused on just the NT that cut out a lot of the stuff you would have to do if you were learning Attic and focus on getting you reading biblical Koine ASAP. As these are designed for seminarians and people from all sorts of countries and educational backgrounds who may not be classical scholars, you can imagine most of these methods are pretty gentle and do a lot to lower the difficulty curve. I had a Koine book that would tell you at the end of every chapter what % of NT Koine words you now know, because it would already be like 50% just a few chapters in.

If you just want to read the NT, you can crash course Koine without caring too much about Attic conjugation etc. If you're only likely to see 2-4 verb forms 80% of the time, why bother agonising over forms you will NEVER see in the NT? At that point, you are better off learning the main conjugations almost as vocabulary, and relying on glosses for everything else. Especially since if you're learning NT Greek just to read the NT, you probably already know the NT like the back of your hand. That's the rationale anyway.

But I have spoken to people who did this method and then did want to move on to Greek, and they told me they wished they had just started with Attic instead of Koine. So take that for what you will.

Even if you do the Attic route, at least get an interlinear Greek New Testament and a beginner-friendly frequency-based vocabulary list and start trying to make your way through, as a parallel to your Attic. The progress you make will probably surprise you, especially since stuff you learn the old fashioned way in Attic will then supervene on your "rough" Koine-learning and make it much easier, and the vocab and experience you build "rough"-reading Koine will possibly make you feel more like Greek is a real language, which it's easy to forget when you're 300 pages into Hansen and Quinn and feel like you're learning set theory and electrical engineering combined.

Anonymous Thu Nov 18 16:14:07 2021 No.19422449

>>19422369
Just to give an example of how thorough glosses are:
https://biblehub.com/text/john/1-4.htm

It's not hard to learn to read the "morphology" thing on the right. Or you can get a gloss that tells you in even longer form what exactly the word is and what it's doing. You can likely already read most of this verse.

>ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀνθρώπων.
>en = in
>auto = self, referring back to the last person mentioned, so "him, the one I just mentioned"
>life = zoe like in zoo-logical
>en = was, one of simplest most common conjugated forms of "is" you can just learn as vocabulary
>kai = and
>he = the (feminine definite article, chapter 1 info any greek book)
>zoe = life again
>en = was again
>to = just the article again, neuter this time, "the"
>phos = light
>ton anthropon = article + noun in the genitive plural, meaning "of men," also textbook chapter 1 stuff

Now imagine how easy it is if after a few hours of learning ultra-common words like ἦν (was) and ἐν (in), you already have 50%+ of words in the New Testament, and everything else is just a matter of the gloss telling you that φῶς means light. The only thing you would have to supply yourself is the basic, chapter1 knowledge of articles and maybe a minimum of grammar knowledge. And on top of all that, you already know John 1:4 because you're Christian and probably didn't even have to look up "life" or "light" even if you didn't know them already.

This method of learning is really neglected these days, there is nothing wrong with "cheating." If this interested you, I bet I could ask you a month from now what ἡ ζωὴ means and you would still know. That's one of the best ways to acquire vocabulary and familiarity with any language, which is really 80% of learning, the other 20% being learning the skeleton of grammar.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 16:30:13 2021 No.19422524 >>19387173 >no Spanish

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 16:37:16 2021 No.19422564 >>19422524 How is it classical? It's only even been written for eight or nine hundred years, and in a secondary position to Latin for much of that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 17:37:39 2021 No.19422861 >>19406234 >>19406250 Arabic is only relevant after the quran. It is not a classical language if it influence only reach the medieval age and after.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 19:38:34 2021 No.19423408 >>19422861 The only reason this is no longer /lang/ general is that a thread for living languages is considered off-topic for /lit/. Personally, I'm happy to see conversations about any language listed on lexicity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 18 19:57:06 2021 No.19423469 If you're interested in East Asian classical languages, bvfeQyJ

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 01:42:01 2021 No.19424851 >>19411890 Thackston's Introduction to Persian. Only awful thing is the answer key is $30, and it's the size of pamphlet...

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 07:50:17 2021 No.19425876 >>19416152 >>19420276 Arabic, too. http://lughat.blogspot.com/2013/12/does-arabic-have-most-words-dont.html I don't get it. If I wanted people to learn my ancestral language, I would UNDERstate the number of words, if anything.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 08:36:06 2021 No.19425999 >>19387091 Can someone fluent in Latin translate a quote for me? "Nothing is permanent except change" Google translated to "Nihil est permanens nisi mutatio" but it's probably wrong.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 08:59:14 2021 No.19426070 >>19425999 Seems fine to me, but I'd shorten it to: Nihil permanet nisi mūtātiō. (But I'm not fluent either.)

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 08:59:42 2021 No.19426071 >>19425999 not too bad, I'd just use the indicative though nil permanet nisi mutatio

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 09:18:06 2021 No.19426133 File: 683 KB, 902x713, el-papa.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Semper ubi sub ubi

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 09:26:22 2021 No.19426165 >>19426071 >indicative grammar is banned under the llspi initiative, sorry. please do not discuss it again

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 09:30:49 2021 No.19426181 >>19426165 You do realize that there are grammar sections in LLPSI?

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 09:34:23 2021 No.19426195 >>19426181 no it doesnt please do not discuss that we do not want it

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 09:36:47 2021 No.19426207 >>19387091 How hard is it to learn Greek or Hebrew compared to Latin? Much harder?

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 09:58:57 2021 No.19426315

>>19426207
I only know some Latin, but shortly looked at the other two, so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass here...

Greek seems to be harder in every possible way. Unless, maybe, if you're only interested in the NT and just ignore everything that's not basic Koine, like >>19422369

About Biblical Hebrew, Lexicity claims:
> when compared with Greek and Latin, it's also much easier.
A bit surprising, since it seems so alien. But just from skimming Wikipedia, Grammar seems to be easier than Latin (and Greek, ofc) and the Tanakh vocabulary is small, as mentioned at >>19415342

The difficulty will probably ramp up if you want to read the Mishnah. But I would love to hear from someone who actually knows Hebrew, how difficult, say, Maimonides' Mishneh Torah would be if one only knows Biblical.

Hopefully that one Hebrew/Aramaic student turns up that posts from time to time.

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 10:02:02 2021 No.19426322

>>19426207
Reason Im asking is because I speak 4 languages fluently, I imagine I could pick up Latin within a reasonable timeframe as a hobby since I already speak Italian. However, I am not sure if learning Hebrew or Greek would make much sense considering it is probably considerably different to all other languages I know (Slovene, Croatian/Serbian, English, Italian, passive Spanish). And I have a job obviously, so I cant do more than an hour or two of learning per day on average.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 10:04:07 2021 No.19426327 >>19426315 Wow that is surprising that Hebrew would be easier than the other two. Maybe the its harder to pick up the basics due to how foreign it is to us and then levels off in difficulty? Interesting, either way.

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 10:04:53 2021 No.19426329

>>19426207
Greek: I didn't feel a severely noticeable difference. It felt easier than Latin but I suspect that to be due to personal enjoyment rather than actual difficulty. Something about the language felt meatier, cleaner, deeper than Latin for me. Latin has always _felt_ like a fake language, something I had a hard time picturing anyone, ever speaking. Greek, in contrast, felt a lot more _real_, perhaps due to the available reading material being more interesting to me.

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 10:12:38 2021 No.19426355

>>19426322
If you know Italian, English, and a declined language, Latin will be easy for you, I can tell you from experience.

Also, at least traditionally, Greek learning material assumes that you already know Latin.

Ultimately it depends on what you want out of the language. Latin and Greek have a huge and diverse corpus that has poetry, history, theater, philosophy, science, prose, religion. Classical Hebrew has religion, and that's pretty much it.

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 10:20:47 2021 No.19426384

>>19419657
>You are giving bad advice.
What's bad about his advice? If you aren't a classics scholar/ philologist you really don't need an intensive grammar survey/super accurate translation of a work. Most of the nuances of the language will probably go over the heads of self learners anyway. I'd say bickering about the accuracy of a translation, and demanding grammatical mastery of all those attempting to learn ancient greek is horrible gatekeeping for a language and discipline that cant really afford to remain that way. Let people, learning outside of the classroom, learn the way that works for them. This should be encouraged, not slapped down.

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 11:22:24 2021 No.19426601

>>19415615
Have you used the Scaife viewer from Perseus?

https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0959.phi001.perseus-eng2:1.1right=perseus-lat2

It can be annoying that the text doesn't line up, but it's still a great tool in the making.

Anonymous Fri Nov 19 11:25:40 2021 No.19426620

>>19426329
Oh yeah, Greek is amazing like that. Reading Greek just takes you right back, there in Ancient Greece.

It's just got such a colloquial rhythm to it, so many small words added for feeling and emphasis. Plato's dialogs are just like strolling the hills around Athens and overhearing some random conversation.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 11:59:08 2021 No.19426772 >>19424851 You can't pirate? >>19425876 I think the point is cultural posturing rather than getting people to learn.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 16:17:23 2021 No.19427986 Nōlī hoc fīlum morī sinere.

>>	Anonymous Fri Nov 19 19:27:15 2021 No.19428820 >>19426315 > Hopefully that one Hebrew/Aramaic student turns up that posts from time to time. He won't come back, will he ;_;

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 00:22:22 2021 No.19430013 >>19426133 Always where, under where.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 02:07:05 2021 No.19430276 >>19426772 There are no scans on Libgen or MAM. I will eventually scan the answer key however because it's mind-boggling how greedy these publishers are, no fucking excuse for not combining the two when the key is only 40 pages.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 02:11:10 2021 No.19430290 >>19426601 I have not yet. Not really sure how to even use this. Found Ovid but doesnt seem like any of the hyperlinks work. Thanks for the info tho

Anonymous Sat Nov 20 04:49:55 2021 No.19430622

Salvete sodales il/lit/erati; spero vos omnes bene se habere. Scribo ut quaeram qui modus linguae Graecae antiquae discendae, ut opinamini, discipulo se docenti optimus sit. Scilicet, velim optimum huius operis librum scire, aut, hoc deposito, qui libri satis bene se commendent.

Talem librum, Hansen & Quinn auctoribus, jam habeo, sed nescio num dignus sit ille—id est, si liber magnopere melior sit, eum aut emere aut alio modo invenire me haud turbet. Vobis gratias, auxilio gaudens, ego do.

Anonymous Sat Nov 20 09:21:55 2021 No.19431368

>>19430622
annum plus minusve fructus sum "Ἀθήναζε", id est liber graece scriptus LLPSI(Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata) consimilis: sunt duo libri verum ut dicam, quibus gradatim graeca lingua accipitur, mea sententia, praecipue italicae versiones, sine magistro perfruibiles, in primis latine loqui iam peritus
ipse vero modo capitulum usque duodevigesimum libri secundi legi adhuc

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 10:15:52 2021 No.19431510 I AM WRITING MY DECLINATION TABLES I HAVE DONE MY FIRST ONE TODAY 99 LEFT TO DO (OR AT LEAST UNTIL I MEMORISE IT)

Anonymous Sat Nov 20 10:19:13 2021 No.19431521

Lege Ἀθήναζε amice. Memor esto Ἀθήναζε habere duas partes et subsidas. Si quaeres exercitias ad partes grammaticae discendas Keller & Russel multas habet. Sunt quoque nonnulla acroamata graece edita si tibi placeat aliquid audire.

Utinam notus esset mihi liber graece, similis Smith&Hall in quo potuerim verba anglica in graecam converta legere.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 10:47:56 2021 No.19431595 File: 251 KB, 750x649, 1618373689873.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I am erotically charged by learning foreign languages. I can't recite Latin out loud without having a boner.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 10:55:24 2021 No.19431615 >>19431595 There's a dearth of Latin smut written after 500, just saying.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 11:10:58 2021 No.19431680 >>19407138 I imagine having to listen to americans pronounce ancient greek without any knowledge of phonology is one of the circles of hell. >Ay-goh E-mee dick-eye-opohlice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 11:11:16 2021 No.19431683 >>19431615 Its not about degenerate shit. I feel my mind being subsumed into the way of thought of the people who spoke the language. The idea of that is erotic to me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 11:43:40 2021 No.19431838 File: 742 KB, 640x853, moon-duss.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19431680

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 14:47:01 2021 No.19432715 >>19431510 good for you

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 14:50:07 2021 No.19432729 >>19431838 kek where is this from

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 15:10:08 2021 No.19432828 >>19407138 it's literally one of the most beautiful languages, behind Old English in first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 15:37:23 2021 No.19432941 File: 95 KB, 832x472, david sloth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19432828 Old English sounds like German. And we all agreed beforehand the German language is ugly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 15:45:06 2021 No.19432983 >>19432941 German is a harsh, cold language Old English is filled with warmth and poetry

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 17:16:17 2021 No.19433371 >>19431510 Is that really the best way to memorize it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 18:23:03 2021 No.19433604 >>19433371 don't know if it's the best way but a way nonetheless

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 19:43:02 2021 No.19433970 >>19431368 >>19431521 Multas gratias vobis ago! Hoc de libro audivi, sed semper in indicibus multorum. Bonus erit, si quidem LLPSI libris similis fuerit, nam illi libri mihi Latine discenti maximo auxilio fuerunt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 20:01:56 2021 No.19434047 To any Latin bros who have become fluent and are able to read as easily as they do in their native language, how many years did it take you? I’ve been studying for 11 months and can only read the Vulgate..

Anonymous Sat Nov 20 20:31:57 2021 No.19434186

>>19434047
Search "Latin Novella" on Amazon (make sure it's books not movies) and their are lots of elementary readers made by Latin teachers for their students because of this very gap in difficulty from the textbook to Caesar.

If you are poor, then search "Latin Reader" on Archive. These will mostly be like 100 years old but they will be free. They are meant for people at your stage.

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 20:32:52 2021 No.19434189 >>19430276 > I will eventually scan the answer key however because it's mind-boggling how greedy these publishers are, no fucking excuse for not combining the two when the key is only 40 pages. Rēx

>>	Anonymous Sat Nov 20 20:58:21 2021 No.19434309 >>19397691 Practice with context will stick much better than grammar drills. No reason you cant do both. Learn from Wheelocks, internalize it with LLSPI.

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