/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19356521]

Settle the debate, who was better?

[Anonymous No.19356684]

>>19356521
Carson. O'Connor could not see past her faith and it hurt her writing, she admitted as much herself.

[Anonymous No.19356828]

>>19356521
In my opinion, O'Connor. But they are different writers. O'Connor truly suffered, she had Lupus and died young. There is something about really suffering in an artist, whether it be psychologically, physically, or both, that cannot be faked, replaced, or compensated for. She was extremely well read in theology and had a critical, yet hopeful view of humanity. Her work is much darker, but that is because she had a Christian worldview and believed that all humans are incapable of being truly good unless they are immersed in God's grace. She primarily wrote short stories, which is probably where her work is at its best, although I think Wise Blood is really amazing, I believe it is in her short fiction that you really find something more complete, this is probably because she focused on short fiction toward the end of her life, so that was the area where her ideas were the most mature and developed, and her craftsmanship was at its most precise.

Carson McCullers was kind of a leach and a one trick pony, her first book, The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter (wonderful title) is more autobiographical than you would expect, and it is really good, but a lot of the stuff that comes after is basically a rehashing of the early stuff. I do like Ballad of the Sad Cafe tho. She used to follow around Katherine Anne Porter at Yaddo and try to fuck her, like she wanted to suck her talent out of her pussy. Katherine Anne Porter was also a better writer than Carson McCullers, for Ship of Fools and Flowering Judas mainly.

One of the things that I consider a plus about O'Connor that others might be irritated by, or find a fault, is that her stories are somewhat enigmatic. Most beginner readers who try her out are confused by her brutality and her lack of clear answers. I personally enjoy this because it allows for the illumination of many different lessons and perspectives depending on where the reader is coming from, what stage of life they are in, etc.. There is an obvious through line in her stories, the need for grace and the essential sinfulness of humans, but I think there is always room for interpretations, enigmas, and points of significance to be debated over. She is like Kafka, whose work seems to be very symbolic, although in a way that what is being symbolized is actually obscured or not always agreed upon. I believe that most of the truly great short fiction writers, even if they are at bottom quite hopeful, seem to be pessimists on the surface. Chekhov is like this, Maupassant too, and some might say Faulkner as well.

Anyways that's my thoughts on O'Connor. I think McCullers first novel is good. I think O'Connor's Wise Blood and her short fiction are really good, even pivotal in terms of American fiction of the 20th century. I wish she had lived longer and been able to write more, but perhaps the stories would not have the same intensity and passion if she knew she had more time.

[Anonymous No.19356842]

I want to make out with Carson, bros

[Anonymous No.19357018]

My vote goes to Carson obvs, O'Connor was exposed as a poor writer by her poor attempt at the novel, you can't make much of a case with a collection of 30 page works compared to the works of McCullers. Carson managed to actually complete coherent novels that weren't entirely dependent on the Bible for its themes and inspiration and actually developed her own style instead of ripping it from her predecessors. Carson's characters were more compelling and her plot lines more interesting, she was consistent with this quality across all her novels bar maybe Clock Without Hands whereas O'Connor couldn't manage it in a single one.

>>19356828
>O'Connor truly suffered, she had Lupus and died young.
McCullers had rheumatic fever when she was a teenager and had a bunch of strokes in her 20's, it's not a competition, but if it were, Carson suffered more.

>Her work is much darker,
Not really anon, again, I don't care to rank them in this aspect but not a single one of McCullers' novels had a happy ending. McCullers wrote with a constant theme of sadness and isolation across all of her novels, I can't even remember the ending to Wise Blood it was so forgettable but I felt no strong emotion either way, happy or sad, which I think speaks to the the quality of the 'darkness' in it.

>Carson McCullers was kind of a leach
Wrong. McCullers was active before O'Connor, she couldn't leach of a words that hadn't been written yet, O'Connor took inspiration from Carson.

>one trick pony
Flannery 'known for short stories' O'Connor. She had a very average novel and the rest is short stories, the cheek of you calling McCullers one-trick

>is more autobiographical than you would expect
Maybe you are thinking of Frankie in The Member of the Wedding but I don't think Mick resembled Carson that much at all. THIALH is allegorical so she is supposed to represent the average post war American girl.

>her stories are somewhat enigmatic.
They might be on the surface but all her questions can be answered in the Bible. She was held back by her Religion, and I don't care for her takes on capitalism in relation to idolatry because I'm not Catholic and I don't think it's revolutionary to criticism materialism either, there are other writers who have done it better and not in such a limited capacity as well. And anything enigmatic in her work I don't think is worth solving, Wise Blood is a boring novel about boring people and I don't care to look further into it because I bet any subtext there is boring too.

[Anonymous No.19357036]

>>19356521
one on the right and it isn't close

[Anonymous No.19357049]

>>19357036
Any particular reason?

[Anonymous No.19357061]

>>19356521
Anne Porter

[Anonymous No.19357062]

>>19356521
Carson was cuter, but I find O'Conner's short stories to be a lot more powerful even if she was a bit limited by her religion.

[Anonymous No.19357064]

They were both proto incels
Carson was slightly better because she at least had sex with men (but she preferred women). Still better than nothing. Flannery was a khv.

I can’t really respect Carson because she never got any pussy and I can’t respect Flannery because she never got any cock.
They were both a waste of genetic material.

[Anonymous No.19357067]

>>19356521
They’re both too skinny and I can’t tell which one is the pervert so it’d have to be a threesome even though I don’t like younger women.

[Anonymous No.19357077]

>>19356828
>>19357018
so this is the next stage of waifuism. just like the tumblrinas fawning over sylvia plath in 2011.

[Anonymous No.19357079]

>>19357062
McCullers is objectively the better writer though, O'Connor's novel failed miserably and even though her short stories were good she clearly could't maintain that quality over an extended piece.

>>19357064
>>19357067
post face

[Anonymous No.19357086]

>>19357077
>have a discussion on /lit/
>mouthbreathers accuse you of waifuism
Might unironically check out reddit

[Anonymous No.19357170]

>>19357086
>Might unironically check out reddit
It’s worse. It’s a lot worse. You lose some autism for genuine stupidity, and the smartest midwit is still a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.19357174]

>>19357079
I’m not going to piss my wife off by doxxing myself on /lit/ over fictitious dead lezzer threesomes. I’ve never been more than a couple of months without a cunt desperate to please or sleep next to me. The point is that these threads obsess with the author. The author is dead. Show me the text.

Fucksake I need a blowjob.

[Anonymous No.19357205]

>>19357170
Hmm I just tried to make a subreddit for Carson McCullers and apparently you need karma for that so I guess I'm staying a little longer.

>>19357174
>he has a wife
Don't believe that for a second. You're disgusting, post wife.

[Anonymous No.19357220]

>>19357205
>post wife
I want to get out of hospital eventually.

[Anonymous No.19357318]

>>19357174
There is no way you are married

[Anonymous No.19357381]

>>19357064
Based and unexpected take.

[Anonymous No.19358559]

>>19357381
>unexpected
He posts it every time

[Anonymous No.19358568]

>>19357318
This is the third time I’ve been married

[Anonymous No.19358596]

kingsley amis called the one on the left 'the decades most overrated writer' (in 1956)

[Anonymous No.19358618]

>>19356842
Pedo

[Anonymous No.19358661]

>>19356521
Mccullers can't even write. Flannery is way better

[Anonymous No.19358665]

>>19356521
Damn these bitches ugly

[Anonymous No.19358796]

>>19358596
>kingsley amis
Who?

[Anonymous No.19358829]

>>19358796
are you an american?

[Anonymous No.19358863]

>>19358829
Almost no one outside of England cares about or remembers Kingsley.

[Anonymous No.19358880]

>>19358863
anyway, are you?

[Anonymous No.19358911]

>>19358880
You tell me. I know who he is and have read him.

[Anonymous No.19358924]

>>19358911
have you read difficulties with girls

[Anonymous No.19358932]

>>19358596
>Old white man doesn't like thing
Post favourite writer faggot, a quick google search and I will find an old white man shitting on them. Means nothing.

>>19358661
Did you want to say why you think this?

>>19358665
Post face.

[Anonymous No.19358945]

>>19358932
my favourite writer is w.s. (the playwright)

[Anonymous No.19358946]

>>19358924
Have you ever actually read anything or do you just read looking for clever little quips to make up for your lack of identity and proofs for your shaky ideology?

[Anonymous No.19358951]

>>19358946
i know i've asked you this already, but are you absolutely sure you're not an american?

[Anonymous No.19358959]

>>19358945
>I have felt, with even greater force, the same feelings—this time, however, not of bewilderment, but of firm, indubitable conviction that the unquestionable glory of a great genius, which Shakespeare enjoys and which compels writers of our time to imitate him and readers and spectators to discover in him non-existent merits (thereby distorting their aesthetic and ethical understanding)—is a great evil, as is every untruth.-Leo Tolstoy

Embarrassing. Think b4 u speak faggot.

[Anonymous No.19358966]

>>19358959
tolstoy! outrageous!

[Anonymous No.19358975]

>>19358966
Funny because I've never read Tolstoy and I don't ever intend to because I don't read translations. You are missing the point entirely, you shouldn't let old white men who have reputation tell you what to like, think 4 urself!

[Anonymous No.19358982]

>>19358932
This horrifically underdeveloped jaw and palate looks like she grew up on a liquid diet. Many such cases! Sad!

[Anonymous No.19359002]

>>19358975
er no i got that i'm on the wind up
thought you were as well

[Anonymous No.19359013]

>>19358982
Post face.

>>19359002
No I was not aware, I am thinking you are just saying this to dodge the L. Anyhow, I'm still counting this as an argument won on my part so go suck my dick you faggot.

[Anonymous No.19359014]

>>19358966
checked
what the fuck is this from??
Is that taking itself seriously, I can't tell.

[Anonymous No.19359028]

>>19359014
no he's being funny

>>19359013
don't start

[Anonymous No.19359048]

>>19359028
I believe you started it when you came into my thread and shit talked Carson faggot. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Anonymous No.19359053]

>>19359048
eh? i didn't do anything that was kingsley

[Anonymous No.19359057]

>>19358796
He wrote Lucky Jim

[Anonymous No.19359065]

>>19358932
>Did you want to say why you think this?
Yes.

[Anonymous No.19359107]

>>19357018
You are very pretentious

[Anonymous No.19359135]

>>19356521
O'Connor without a doubt

[Anonymous No.19359253]

Carson is 100% the better writer

[Anonymous No.19359295]

>>19359107
You are very stupid

[Anonymous No.19359646]

>>19359013
>i win!
If you ever got over yourself and quit this childish behavior you would probably contribute to some high quality discussion and get more people to read Carson.

[Anonymous No.19359748]

>>19359646
You're right, I'm incredibly immature but I'm also better read than you. Of course it doesn't count as a 'proper discussion' when I let you know that you are wrong though does it, how else would you cope with a tranny embarrassing you in thread after thread? Keep seething faggot.

[Anonymous No.19359766]

>>19359748
What are you getting on about?

[Anonymous No.19359779]

>>19356521
Left is a cutie so i guess right was a better writer

[Anonymous No.19359785]

>>19357064
Her celibacy makes O'Connor spiritually superior.

[Anonymous No.19359794]

>>19359779
Lmao she looks like kristin schaal

[Anonymous No.19359852]

>>19359646
In his defence half of this thread is calling McCullers ugly.

[Anonymous No.19359982]

>>19359852
He has no defense. Every McCullers thread I have looked in has largely featured him proving that he can be more autistic than anyone else. He destroys any chance for conversation and he knows it.

[Anonymous No.19360036]

>>19359982
Anon you should scroll up to the fourth post in this thread, if you would like to have a discussion reply to it, tell me I'm wrong or expand on something I said, because I only received two (You)'s for writing that, both were insults and the person I replied to didn't even bother responding at all. I am not preventing discussion at all, nobody wants to have one.

[Anonymous No.19360054]

>>19356521
Carson McCullers is cuter than Flannery O’Connor, sooooooo.

[Anonymous No.19360109]

>>19356521
Alice Munro

[Anonymous No.19360132]

>>19359982
>>19360036
>He abandons thread instead of having the 'discussion' he is gagging for
Many such cases!

[Anonymous No.19360148]

>>19360036
That is my point, you make the occasional decent post but you resort to shit flinging anytime anyone disagrees in the slightest.

>>19360132
>shit flinging
Case in point. Some of us have lives outside of 4chan.

[Anonymous No.19360199]

>>19360148
>resort to shit flinging anytime anyone disagrees in the slightest.
lol no one even disagreed with me, I was refreshing the thread all last night waiting for an actual response to that post but I was just insulted so I insulted back.

And if you are one to be offended by words I guess that might be a problem, but just for you, I promise no more names, slurs or shit flinging. Now back to the discussion you wanted, again scroll up to the fourth post, the ball is your court anon and contrary to yourself I have no life outside 4chan so I eagerly await your response!

[Anonymous No.19360658]

>1 hour 38 minutes ago
This board is so shit don't know why I bother

[Anonymous No.19360675]

I am too lazy to read this thread. Can someone tell me if the McCullers schizo/tranny has shown up yet? Is he screeching about David Foster Wallace yet?

[Anonymous No.19361178]

>>19360675
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.19361190]

>>19357018
>O'Connor was exposed as a poor writer by her poor attempt at the novel
plenty of great short story writers can't write a novel to save their lives. it's a different medium entirely. it rarely happens someone can do both

[Anonymous No.19361383]

>>19361190
McCullers wrote Wunderkind, Sucker and The Mortgaged heart as well as the novella The Ballad of the Sad Cafe which are all great. I've only read A Good Man is Hard to Find, Everything That Rises Must Converge and The Artificial Nigger from O'Connor and thought they were all great too, and as short stories better than those written by McCullers. But when it comes to novels the two writers are incomparable, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter and The Member of the Wedding are far ahead of Wise Blood and its not close and the difference in quality in this regard is too far to reconcile the difference in short stories. McCullers has a decent collection of short stories to O'Connor's great, but an excellent collection of novels compared to O'Conor's very average Wise Blood.

McCullers could do both whereas O'Connor could only do one.

[Anonymous No.19361513]

>>19356521
I want a catholic irish gf

[Anonymous No.19361587]

>>19361513
Be careful anon, a lot of those trad girls these days are sexual deviants in disguise, they larp as pure because they get off of being spoiled by sex and they will use you in their little fetish to cum and drop you when they're finished. They don't really care about morality and modesty and before you know it you'll mistake their lust for love and will get nothing but used pussy and a broken heart. Women can be so horrible.

[Anonymous No.19361789]

>>19361513
It's really the English catholics that are more hardcore what's left of the Irish catholics barely know anything about their religion.

[Anonymous No.19361836]

>>19357018
>I can't even remember the ending to Wise Blood it was so forgettable but I felt no strong emotion either way
Hazel Motes blinds himself with lime. Make of that what you will, but it's hardly forgettable.

[Anonymous No.19361874]

>>19358596
He said McCullers was "off the stuff." Was he talking about booze or something else?

[Anonymous No.19361895]

>>19361836
>blinds himself
w0w
>with lime
oh...

And anyway I didn't find him interesting as a character so I didn't care what happened. Plot line is pointless when the characters acting it out are forgettable.

>>19361789
I live opposite an abortion clinic and I can see nutty catholis praying for the dead babies every time I look out my window

>>19361874
Probably, I think she was a very heavy drinker, she smoked a lot as well.

[Anonymous No.19361934]

>>19361895
>I live opposite an abortion clinic and I can see nutty catholis praying

God bless them.

[Anonymous No.19362369]

>>19360109
based

[Anonymous No.19362438]

>>19358959
>moralising liking Bill, do communists really?

[Anonymous No.19362483]

>>19361874
yep, booze

[Anonymous No.19362560]

>>19361895
kek is that Marilyn Monroe?

[Anonymous No.19362744]

>>19362560
Yes, one of the only women to mog Marilyn Monroe

[Anonymous No.19362758]

>>19362744
>all black w the white socks
drip. can't lie

[Anonymous No.19362780]

>>19362744
If she fucked Monroe she’s got bad taste in cunt. Would not engage in threesome with.

[Anonymous No.19362794]

>>19362780
A virgin typed this.

[Anonymous No.19362981]

>>19362794
“Too thin”

[Anonymous No.19362988]

>>19356521
left because she doesn't have a dog face

[Anonymous No.19363175]

>>19361895
>I live opposite an abortion clinic and I can see nutty catholis praying for the dead babies every time I look out my window
Based Catholic brothers

[Anonymous No.19363202]

I oppose fag shit written by women and lesbians, so it not much of choice. That one anon that likes to trash Flannery can go choke on golden eye.

[Anonymous No.19363620]

>>19362758
Very effay

[Anonymous No.19364218]

>>19359852
It's the most interesting thing about her