All Poetry Thread

[Anonymous No.19353281]

"Revive /lit/" edition
Let's have a wholesome poetry thread.
Post and discuss favourite poems.
Post and rate each other's work.

Some things to discuss:
>Can poetry change anything?
>Does poetry have a place in contemporary society?
>Is poetry important?
>What do you think the future of poetry is going to be like?

Have fun!

[Anonymous No.19353302]

>>19352858

[Anonymous No.19353309]

>>19353302
>The internet is part of a long tradition of losers but sadly lacks their poetry.
based and true

[Anonymous No.19353321]

I thought "Psalm" by George Trakl was a good poem but I misunderstood it.

The original line I read was:

>There are little girls in a courtyard in tiny frocks full of heart-rending want!

which is 10/10
But then I read the line in a different translation:

>It is little girls in a courtyard, in little dresses full of heart-rending poverty!

And now it's just depressing.
The first translation is better even if it is not true to the original meaning of the poem.

[Anonymous No.19353333]

>>19353321
what's different about the meaning?

[Anonymous No.19353347]

>>19353321
I had never read this, thanks for showing it to me.
I instantly loved it.
I think the first translation is accurate as 'want' can mean 'poor', but the word also carries other associations with it which make the line better.

[Anonymous No.19353350]

>Can poetry change anything?
a handful of good words could turn the world around

>Does poetry have a place in contemporary society?
yes but since it now takes 3 clicks to add an instrumental most of it will be in the forms of music (going back to the roots) (see "i thought about killing you")

>Is poetry important?
define poetry; i consider rap and tweets a form of poetry and they have a central spot i our society

>What do you think the future of poetry is going to be like?

cant wait for gpt-3 poetry that breaks rules we have never even realized
musical poetry just like in the old days of bards and skalds (next step to rapping)
anti-poetry, like some parts of fanged noumena. the rhythm is unpleasant, the words too long, but it leaves you with very strong feelings.
much darker and brutal
instead of the beauty of nature it will focus on the ugliness of the machine
future of poetry is going to be shadowed by fear of the machine and most of it are going to be not songs of joy, but spasmatic last breaths trying to prove their humanity

Incest and cannibalism are proscribed loops, short-circuits,
the avatars of a delirium indifferent to persons which
the codes must segregate; condensing a totemic social
order protected by taboo. Aboriginal codes ritualistically
constitute a somatic realm of ancestrally invested bodies
and cooked meat, immunizing it against uncoded tracts
populated by enemies, prey animals, unsettled spirits,
magical plants and unprocessed corpses.


in further future
>asemic writing
>dna poetry
>poetically beautiful recursive software

and functional poetry, beautiful not only in form but also in function - like powerful incantations that sound beautiful, too

[Anonymous No.19353356]

>>19353281
When you think about it writing is quite outdated. If we had a Dante today I doubt he would be writing poetry, he would probably choose a different medium.

[Anonymous No.19353363]

>>19353350
Do you have any examples of poetry set to music?

[Anonymous No.19353368]

>>19353350
>i thought about killing you

Well that sucked

[Anonymous No.19353371]

How’s Malcolm Guite regarded in the poetry world?

I just discovered his YouTube channel and binged a ton of his videos. First time poetry has had any kind of effect on me.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MrRyqwxKZ-A

[Anonymous No.19353384]

>>19353363
this is how i imagine it will sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RMHHwJ9Eqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1YszVVybo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43TmnIaL3n4
>but these are not profound!!! they don't rhyme!!! it's not poetry!!!

ok

[Anonymous No.19353387]

>>19353350
This right here is what I'm talking about.
I disagree with much of what you said, anon, but this is precisely the discourse I'm looking for.

That being said, I think Nick Land has gone past the technobabble threshold and though his position and concepts are interesting and necessary to consider today, crossing that threshold made his writing cringe. He's driven himself into a dead end.
Asemic writing is something much more interesting that I think could potentially have a place in the future of poetry, although not in a form that is entirely removed from the context of words and coherent text. If it ever becomes a trend I expect people to go too hard in that direction until they learn to master its techniques and incorporate it into literature more appropriately.
DNA poetry we need to dicsuss more, I'm not sure what to think about it.
Software and codefaggots can fuck off, they will never be poets.
>functional poetry, like powerful incantations
You have my full, undivided attention. Elaborate.

[Anonymous No.19353388]

>>19353350

[Anonymous No.19353396]

>>19353384
This just sucks and lacks all originality. Closed the first video after 5 seconds and did not bother to look at rest.

[Anonymous No.19353420]

>>19353371
Sorry, anon, I haven't heard of him.
>>19353384
>nuages
One of my favourite "late night cigarette" videos. I recognize that this is a long way from what masterful poetry and music would sound like, but even here you can glimpse some of the interactions which could elevate both.

[Anonymous No.19353421]

>>19353371
It’s me again. Picked this collection of Keats up forever ago. (He’s supposed to be good right?)

What are the essential poems to start with?

[Anonymous No.19353444]

Who are your favourite 20th century poets?

[Anonymous No.19353445]

>>19353421
It seems good to me.
I'd start with
1. Ode to a Grecian Urn (the thread quote is from there)
2. Ode to a Nightingale
3. On first looking into Chapman's Homer
4. Hymn to Apollo
Then you can read other sonnets or odes or "To X" before reading Hyperion and Endymion, they are longer and you'll benefit from having gotten used to his style from the shorter ones. Side note - Hyperion is unfinished.
I haven't read all of the poetry I see in this book, so another anon might have other suggestions.

[Anonymous No.19353452]

>>19353396
this is why i consider it the direction poetry will take in future and not its present magnum opus? what is your point, do you disagree that some text can be made better when read aloud to fitting accompaniment? and that sharing such form has been made easier in the last 10 years?

>functional poetry, like powerful incantations

for instance, dna or software code that is simple but very beautiful. with how fast society has been changing i expect aesthetics will change too.
so even if it's difficult to think about now, the notion of "beautiful code" will become completely normalized, just like "beautiful equations".
think classical music that is beautiful to hear but also beautifully complicated. poetry is putting in few words something that previously needed pages of description. or noticing amazing similarities and connections between two distinct things (metaphors are pretty important in poetry and a driving force of language). i imagine this is also the case with elegant code or equations like e=mc2. maybe they are just very good metaphors. imagine a piece of recursive code, let's say 10 lines, that can make a language generator sound twice as human. wouldn't that be beautiful? or a gene sequence that has rhythm, is nice to look at, but also when coded into a flower makes it explode in colour and shape? and, even better, there are obvious similarities in the form of the genetic code and the form of the flower, even if you don't know genetics?

my point is, up until now we only had language of the human (natural language) and language of the numbers (maths). so we could make beautiful poems and beautiful equations. now we also know the language of the machine, the language of life, the language of the brain (neuroscience). so why not write poems in all of these? the bible was written in black flame on parchment of white fire, and God spoke with Adam using lighting and fire. why can't future poetry be written with sun and rain, lighting, tree, mutation and action? i imagine we will soon be able to control these elements and force them into any form, rhythm and meaning we want.

(it might be worth adding that i have no idea how computer or genetic code works)

[Anonymous No.19353455]

>>19353444
checked
Eliot, Ado/unis, Charles Olson

[Anonymous No.19353466]

>>19353452
the second part is answer to >>19353387


for a trailer of what i mean with poetry written using elements look at the sky when a starlink chain is passing. it is a (very simple) human-made choreography of stars. we will soon be able to make stars dance. the basic ideas of metaphors, rhythm, conveying emotion, aesthetic will still hold. but natural language is EXTREMELY limiting, and with the power that humanity is gaining it would be dumb to limit yourself to 21 characters.
tl;dr very-future poetry will be written with stars, and not in latin alphabet

[Anonymous No.19353484]

>>19353452
Reading what you said, I can't help but like most of these things. I can see how all of them will be really interesting and I'm excited to start discovering new things like that.
The one thing that becomes obvious, then, is that poetry is going to have to go through the shame schism that philosophy survived a hundred years ago. We are going to have to separate the poetry from the non-poetry, and that is going to require a redefinition of the word. I think that a resurgence of philosophy of language is coming simply in order to make sense of what we view and understand as language going forward so that these other things can find their places in our lives. There are things we intuitively understand as languages and others not so much, and while I'd say that a gene poem or a maths poem I could see being poems, what needs to change is the language in which humans communicate for the masses to be able to appreciate these new things. As long as humans exist and think in langauge as we know it, traditional word-based poetry is going to be front and center. In fact, given the central place language has in human cognition, in consciousness at all, I don't know if it's possiblle to be entirely divorced from it and accept other things as naturally as we do this language, and if we do - will we still be human?

[Anonymous No.19353496]

>>19353466
checked yet again
I'm the same anon from our conversation above.
At this point I think you're blurring the line between poetry and what is often called 'poetry' in the visual medium. But crossing that line robs the word poetry of value and meaning, because then the constellations can be described as stellar poetry.
The distinction might have already been made, because the neuroscience book on reading and wrinting that I read recently showed that the human brain handles written language differently than other visually presented information.

[Anonymous No.19353508]

>>19353484
consider that more and more communication now happens in forms of videos and the trend is likely to continue.
>We are going to have to separate the poetry from the non-poetry
this i dont bother myself with. its basic instinct to get rid of categorisation as soon as it stops being helpful. language is either your tool or your prison. saying "this is not music" "this is not art" or "this is not poetry" seems reddit-tier. the people at the forefront of this might not care what the rest calls it. maybe a nice way to put it is i don't think future poetry will be called poetry, the same way movies are not called theatre.
> I don't know if it's possiblle to be entirely divorced from it and accept other things as naturally as we do this language, and if we do - will we still be human?
the chinese alphabet is way more complicated than latin, and some would argue it is more human and better reflects the way our brain works. gives amazing possibilities for poets, too. think of going from 23 symbols to pic related (particularly ideograms) and then the next step. and the next. and a good number of humans have the capability to use the chinese system and think in ideograms. i don't think it makes them less human. i think the more complex the system, the more human it is. the only difference between us and the machine is were way more complicated.

[Anonymous No.19353513]

>>19353508
>the chinese alphabet

[Anonymous No.19353532]

>>19353508
I don't think the chinese alphabet is a good example. One, it's still a language, just a different version, and two - your idea that if we can upgrade from a 23 letter alphabet to picrel then we should be able to upgrade to something that doesn't rest entirely in language seems false.
I get why you're excited, I am too, but I think we should consider these things more carefully and in-depth. We're not talking about what "others" are going to call this new artform, but ultimately art that either aims or can't help but be understood only by a select few isn't elitist, it's retarded and niche, especially when said art aims to be an exploration of the human condition.
You might not like categorization because it's 'reddit-tier', but that's just reductionist and lazy, and doesn't deal with the fact that the issue will still have to be adressed, at least neurologically. When I say poetry, I mean the linguistic type that triggers the neurological pathways associated with language interpretation.
So, going forward in this thread, let's try to keep the discussion centered around this type of poetry. I really liked the idea of asemic poetry, poetry that's composed with music in mind and above all I was intrigued by the "incantation-like" poetry you mentioned. My interpretation of that was that poetry could potentially be used to hijack the brain to some extent via the aforementioned neural-linguistic pathways and induce a state or emotion the way our ancestors did with chanting and ritual.

[Anonymous No.19353551]

>>19353532
>hijack the brain to some extent via the aforementioned neural-linguistic pathways

everything i mentioned still uses symbols and meaning. i dont think we know enough about brain functions to use them as guides.

>art that either aims or can't help but be understood only by a select few isn't elitist, it's retarded and niche

if its really good people will do everything they can to understand it and it will make them grow, not adapt to them.

>your idea that if we can upgrade from a 23 letter alphabet to picrel then we should be able to upgrade to something that doesn't rest entirely in language seems false.
but the chinese (or japanese) system works in a completely different way. it's not just more symbols, it's a completely different way of thinking about them.
but i understand what you mean. such art if it is ever developed would deserve its own name and does not fit into the thread.
>>19353513
you are right, sorry.

[Anonymous No.19353843]

>>19353452
People for centuries have had power over nature and have manipulated it in artistic ways. Woodcarving, jewelcutting, metallurgy, etc... yet these are not called poetry. Poetry is in words.

[Anonymous No.19353858]

>>19353281
Where to start poetrybros?

[Anonymous No.19353891]

>>19353843
where we're going we won't need words

[Anonymous No.19353908]

>>19353891
If we're going to bring Wittgenstein into this, I'm obliged to say that where we're going we can only go THROUGH words

[Anonymous No.19353919]

I need a good poem to memorize. any suggestions. My main objective is to get pussy or also express to people how thoughtful and introspective I am about life.
I know some macbeth but that just makes people want to kill themselves.

[Anonymous No.19353927]

>>19353858
I would say start with the greeks unironically, but you can also start with contemporary poets that you might like. Give Anne Carson's Glass Essay a go, it's written in a very accessible language and the imagery and themes are relatable (as a bonus she is going to introduce you to Emily Bronte through the Essay).
Alternatively, you can start with romantic poetry, though that is going to take some getting used to because of the outdated language. Should you decide to go this way you can try Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Wordsworth... there's a lot of them and those are just the Brits.
Give us more guidelines and we'll be able to help you out more.

[Anonymous No.19353944]

>>19353919
> My main objective is to get pussy or also express to people how thoughtful and introspective I am about life
If you can only achieve this through memorization, I have bad news for you. Either read more and actually think about what you're reading and explore how it makes you feel, or forever be stuck on the mental crossroads where people can tell you're faking understanding and thought and it makes them cringe.
Also, if you think girls are going to be impressed by you reciting a poem, you are retarded. It is a very niche thing that COULD work, but without the knowledge behind it, your timing and performance will be truly autistic and you'll end up on the YLYL threads on /gif/.

[Anonymous No.19353978]

>>19353919
>My main objective is to get pussy or also express to people how thoughtful and introspective I am about life.
pic rel

[Anonymous No.19354205]

Here's another Frenchie, Boris Vian:

Surprise Party

The turntable hacked up a melancholy blues
The air was heavy with dust and odors
Several zazous danced while holding to their hearts
Short girls with spasmodic behinds

In a closet, an amateur obstetrics couple
Delivered themselves to games full of art and naivete
Another in a corner attempted with ardor
Tonsil-coupling, to music.

Hands encountered one another under too-short skirts
Drunk, two lovebirds—(what if I said: two dodos?)
Looked everywhere for a bed; they were all full…

Let this happy youth screw itself
Why eradicate from them this impure manure
If their hope restricts itself to rubbing membranes?

[Anonymous No.19354263]

>>19353927
I read some poe and I liked it

[Anonymous No.19354526]

>>19354263
Then look into the Romantics I mentioned but include Shelley

[Anonymous No.19355844]

good run, lads

[Anonymous No.19355949]

does anyone know any prose poets with a comic style like Louis Jenkins, James Tate, Russel Edson, etc.?

[Anonymous No.19355964]

>>19353919
>My main objective is to get pussy
well youve come to the right place

[Anonymous No.19355981]

>>19353444
robert graves, auden, some poems by eliot

[Anonymous No.19357890]

the discussion about the "relevance" of poetry as if its under threat always feels weird to me because rap music is obviously a form of vulgar doggerel and its the most popular genre of music in the world

[Anonymous No.19357732]

>>19353350
Good stuff

[Anonymous No.19357917]

>>19357890
Yes, the vulgar doggerel known as "rap" is popular. Not sure what bearing that has. Let's go back to the discussion at hand. Poetry's relevance is under threat.

[Anonymous No.19358104]

Poetry major here.
Anyone else have a good list of obscure/non canonical poets?
I'll post a list of recs when i'm home, would.love some new ones.

[Anonymous No.19358127]

>>19354263
Oxford Book of Narrative Verse

[Anonymous No.19358136]

>>19358104
gloria evans davies

[Anonymous No.19358142]

>>19358104
How was it majoring poetry? I'm not memeing, I am considering getting a masters in creative writing/lit/poetry and I need some info.
Are the classes useful/fun? How are the other people in the course? What can you work after that?

[Anonymous No.19358154]

>>19358136
>seasons
>castles
>animals/nature
>crwyssrfywehrw
yep, it's a welsh poem alright
God I fucking hate the welsh and their stupid gay-ass wannabe poetry

[Anonymous No.19358158]

>>19358154
>seasons
>castles
>animals/nature
only found in welsh poems

[Anonymous No.19358191]

>>19358158
no, but I'm tired of their poems which only talk about the fatherland and the donkeys that live in it and the local hill named Hwryhtn and how it's so amazing to be welsh (and not English) in the height of spring, oh also the ruins of the castle that the kids squat in like little visigoth larpers

[Anonymous No.19358214]

>>19358142
Its great. I'm studying in Brisbane for reference. The classes are terrific, so are the lecturers. Theres also plenty of room for diversifying your electives (im taking some zoology courses).

Not sure about my classmates desu, they keep tryong to make friends with me but I already have enough friends so i've been fairly reticent.

As for jobs, i've already had a few offers for editing/screening submissions for small local publications. I'm not really sure either honestly. Foresight isn't my strength, that's probably why I'm majoring in poetry.

[Anonymous No.19358218]

>>19358136
Thanks sm for the rec

[Anonymous No.19358222]

>O wae's me on the weary days, When it is scarce grey licht at noon
me for the next five months

[Anonymous No.19358238]

>>19358214
>Foresight isn't my strength, that's probably why I'm majoring in poetry.
based self aware anon
Thanks for the info, that was actually useful

[Anonymous No.19358249]

>>19358238
No problem at all. Lmk if you have any more questions.

[Anonymous No.19358260]

Here's a poem I like.

The Moon by David Berman

A web of sewer, pipe, and wire connects each house to the others.

In 206 a dog sleeps by the stove where a small gas leak causes him
to have visions; visions that are rooted in nothing but gas.

Next door, a man who has decided to buy a car part by part
excitedly unpacks a wheel and an ashtray.

He arranges them every which way. It’s really beginning to take
shape.

Out the garage window he sees a group of ugly children
enter the forest. Their mouths look like coin slots.
A neighbor plays keyboards in a local cover band.
Preparing for an engagement at the high school prom,

they pack their equipment in silence.

Last night they played the Police Academy Ball and all
the officers slow-danced with target range silhouettes.
This year the theme for the prom is the Tetragrammaton.

A yellow Corsair sails through the disco parking lot

and swaying palms presage the lot of young libertines.

Inside the car a young lady wears a corsage of bullet-sized rodents.
Her date, the handsome cornerback, stretches his talons over the
molded steering wheel.

They park and walk into the lush starlit gardens behind the disco
just as the band is striking up.

Their keen eyes and ears twitch. The other couples
look beautiful tonight. They stroll around listening
to the brilliant conversation. The passionate speeches.

Clouds drift across the silverware. There is red larkspur,
blue gum, and ivy. A boy kneels before his date.

And the moon, I forgot to mention the moon.

[Anonymous No.19358277]

>>19358260
I had never read poetry talking about this until now. It has a distinctly 80s/90s vibe and it's cool. I wonder why the author decided to talk about this of all things, any interpretations?

[Anonymous No.19358325]

>>19353281
>As Wagner argued at length in Oper und Drama, the virtue of Stabreim is its ability to establish through phonology associations or antitheses between particular words and concepts. (Stabreim entails a use of language akin to music in so far as it allows the word to derive meaning from its place in a phonetic pattern rather as the musical note derives meaning from its place in a tonic pattern.) It is a verse form which, in Wagner's hands, demands that particular attention be paid not only to each word but also to each root-syllable.

>When Brunnhilde argues with her master in Die Walküre II.ii, Wotan makes an angry attempt to silence her:

>Was bist du, als meines Willens
>blind wählende Kür?—

>The phrasing and rhetoric of Wotan's question echo Brunnhilde's earlier plea:

>wer—bin ich,
>wär'ich dein Wille nicht?

[Anonymous No.19358328]

>>19358260
Poetry for the unpoetic.

[Anonymous No.19358329]

>>19358325
>Weia! Waga! Woge, du Welle, walle zur Wiege! Wagalaweia! Wallala weiala weia!

>In his open letter to Friedrich Nietzsche of 12 June 1872 Wagner explained that Woglinde’s opening gambit is based on OHG heilawâc ( = water drawn from a river or well at some divinely appointed hour), recast by analogy with the eia popeia ( = hushabye) of children’s nursery rhymes.
>In conversation with Cosima, Wagner described this passage as ‘the world’s lullaby’ (CT, 17 July 1869), a reading already suggested by Opera and Drama, where the composer imputes the birth of language to a melodic vocalization.

[Anonymous No.19358332]

>>19353452
Hard disagree. See >>19353843
If you consider math or dna manipulation poetry, you probably also consider painting or sculpting poetry. I think you mistake art in general for poetry(?)
Secondly, I don't think math and art should be grouped together. Mathematicians don't have to prove anything to poets, poets don't have to prove anything to mathematicians, the goals, means and traditions of math and poetry are completely different.
The same probably goes for coding and genetic engineering, though I don't know much about those.

[Anonymous No.19358347]

>>19358191
good god

[Anonymous No.19358385]

>>19358347
no reverence for the anglo/anglo orbiters

[Anonymous No.19358389]

>>19358332
Amen

[Anonymous No.19358390]

>>19358385
deary me

[Anonymous No.19358758]

>>19357917
>poetry's relevance is under threat
there are many people who feel this, yet we can't seem to say exactly what the threat is - people not reading poetry? not reading in general? poetry not being very good at making money in the hypercapitalistic society we live in? the inability of people to be vulnerable the way poetry needs them to be?

[Anonymous No.19358766]

>>19358758
>the hypercapitalistic society we live in
lol a lot of "acclaimed poets" live off grants bestowed by the nanny state

[Anonymous No.19358804]

>>19358766
checked
let's name some and have fun shitting on their "poetry"

[Anonymous No.19358813]

Hours fly,

[Anonymous No.19358816]

Flowers die,

[Anonymous No.19358824]

>>19358813
>>19358816
don't do the whole thing like this, please

[Anonymous No.19358827]

New days

[Anonymous No.19358833]

New ways,

[Anonymous No.19358834]

>>19358827
>>19358833
stop it now

[Anonymous No.19358836]

Pass by!

[Anonymous No.19358837]

>>19358804
I'll start with Jackie Kay, poet laureate of Scotland from 2016 to 2021. The offspring a Scottish woman and a Nigerian, she was put up for adoption. Her adopted father was a member of the Communist Party. In her youth she experienced le racism, telling the Guardian
>As an eight-year-old, older boys would wait for her after school, “fill bubblegum wrappers with mud and get me down and shove them into my mouth and say, 'That’s what you should eat, because you’re from a mud hut'
adding
>The image of a Scottish person isn’t me, and I think that we need to try and change what we think of when we think of a Scottish person.
She was appointed Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in 2006 for services to literature.
She lives in England.

Below is her celebrated poem "In My Country"

walking by the waters,
down where an honest river
shakes hands with the sea,
a woman passed round me
in a slow, watchful circle,
as if I were a superstition;
or the worst dregs of her imagination,
so when she finally spoke her words spliced into bars
of an old wheel. A segment of air.
Where do you come from?
‘Here,’ I said, ‘Here. These parts

[Anonymous No.19358838]

>>19358834
>>19358824
Love stays

[Anonymous No.19358852]

>>19358838
lol

[Anonymous No.19358878]

A poem I wrote. Please critique anons.
.
.
On melancholy hill,
He called me so I came
through Hakagawa's house,
where we arrived from the big town,
beneath cold January skies
as flames died of boredom.
.
.
Do you dare? Now? Dare now. dare, please? NOW! dare!
Die die die die die
Please.
Now.
Now please.
Yes coffee?
Yes thank you.
No, just coffee please.
Yes, thank you.
.
.
A little life.
Bug infested computer cabinets.
I found a torn paperback in the rain.
The library threw out books infested with ideology.
Say nothing, please Albert, I know it already.
Already, is it time already?
All that salt.
And will it be worth it after all?
Do I dare go outside with a bald head?
I am but 22. Pink snow. Dew. Matsuo Basho.
Steel chairs. Faces like dead TV screens.
Perpetual stares. Owls walk in the street.
Oh please, please we have no money!
YES SIR! They are hiding inside sir!
YES SIR! Brown eyes SIR! Brown hair SIR!
Bang.
.
.
Snow crazed sky, white beyond redemption.
The fire smoulders inside.
Outside wandering blankets of night
envelope the post genocide sky.
If I had a time machine, dad, i really want to go back dad, please show me how...
.
.
Stop
Reading.

[Anonymous No.19358887]

>>19358837
What the fuck
That's highschool-tier, jesus fucking fuck. I almost hate this more than shit like Kaur cause at least Kaur's hot and knows her audience and is abusing the system for personal gain which is based, even though her poetry can't be classified as such.
This is worse, because the person is being unironic and honestly thinks she's doing something for the world or poetry with this garbage.

[Anonymous No.19358901]

>>19358837
>walking by the waters,
>down where an honest river
>shakes hands with the sea,
>a woman passed round me
>in a slow, watchful circle,
>as if I were a superstition;
>or the worst dregs of her imagination,
>so when she finally spoke her words spliced into bars
>of an old wheel. A segment of air.
>Where do you come from?
>‘Here,’ I said, ‘Here. These parts
pretty good

[Anonymous No.19358904]

>>19358901
Why did you copy the entire poem you autist

[Anonymous No.19358914]

>>19358878
Not bad, anon.
I feel a need for variety of length of the imagery, and of the imagery itself. The imagery is what I would call "first order" imagery, where it's based on immediately available perceptions and sensations, and I think you can let yourself go deeper than that sometimes.
The repetitions sometimes hit home, but sometimes they're unnnecessary.
>Outside wandering blankets of night
envelope the post genocide sky.
I particularly like this, and I particularly hate
>Faces like dead TV screens.
Reminds me of the opening sentence of Neuromancer but it's not as clean an image and it feels shallow.
Keep going, anon.

[Anonymous No.19358916]

>>19358904
eh? cos that's what i was replying to

[Anonymous No.19358929]

>>19358901
How is it good?!
What part of it is good??
The utterly basic imagery? The obvious lack of knowledge on how to use line breaks for emphasis, tempo or visual styling? The failed attempt at conveying the gravity of the situation by using pedestrian language constructions and images?
This is bad in ways that don't even let it be an antipoem. How was I supposed to even figure out that the poem is about "raycism" if I hadn't read about the author at first, there's no indication in the text, "where do you come from" is too ambiguous.

[Anonymous No.19358936]

>>19358766
>>19358804
why does this feel like samefagging
both using air quotes like that. idk

[Anonymous No.19358939]

>>19358936
I'm the second guy, didn't even occur to me

[Anonymous No.19358941]

>>19358936
nope, not that there's anything wrong with "samefagging"

[Anonymous No.19358948]

>>19358941
ok it definitely is lol

[Anonymous No.19358950]

Okay I admit it, they were all me, even the guy complaining about the samefagging.

[Anonymous No.19358985]

>>19358914
Yes anon, indeed. This is very much a first draft. Thank you for reading.

[Anonymous No.19359001]

Feedback on this?

[Anonymous No.19359021]

>>19359001
Fix the line breaks ('that' doesn't need a line to itself, neither do 'is hit' and 'always hit') and remove some of the yaps, you can get away with 4
>that yaps and yaps,
>yaps and yaps
Like so.

[Anonymous No.19359049]

>>19359001
decent

>>19359021
are you joking? this is terrible advice

[Anonymous No.19359086]

>>19359021
>>19359049
Thank you!

[Anonymous No.19359108]

>>19353281
I'm a keen reader but have never got into poetry. My favourite authors at the moment are Tolstoy, Hemingway and Murakami.

If anyone has recommendations of where to start, I'd appreciate it greatly

[Anonymous No.19359256]

>>19359049
When you say things like this, point out why you think something's good or bad

[Anonymous No.19359282]

>>19353321
Pretty sure both translations are accurate; and that, as it seems, you just happened to have misunderstood the first from want of a decent vocabulary.

[Anonymous No.19359318]

>>19359282
for want*

[Anonymous No.19359446]

>>19353281
Can I get American poetry recs? So far I've enjoyed Longfellow and Emerson(and Poe obviously but....), Any recs?

[Anonymous No.19359566]

>>19359446
Edward Dorn
Gregory Corso
Lawrence Ferlinghetti

[Anonymous No.19359768]

>>19359566
checked
I'll be, I've never heard of these

[Anonymous No.19360146]

>>19353281
*Notes on Her*
Whenever I see her
She smiling ear to ear.
She's twenty two year old but
she thinks she is a kitten- purring.
I pat her and she hugs me.
She is happy and she loves me.
I love her one hundred million thousand times

[Anonymous No.19360183]

>>19359446
Ted Berrigans "Sonnets"

[Anonymous No.19360185]

>>19360146
Anon, that's sweet but... it's sweet.

[Anonymous No.19360278]

>>19354205
bravo

[Anonymous No.19360598]

>>19359108
Bumping this request. Any recommendations here would be really helpful

[Anonymous No.19360657]

>>19360598
there's like a gazillion anthologies on this page, click and scroll around, if something strikes your fancy, investigate further
https://www.bartleby.com/verse/indexes.html

[Anonymous No.19361140]

>>19360278
Another appreciater of Vian?
>>19360598
Your prose preferences won't help you much when starting your poetry journey, but they do show you're used to putting in thought in your reading and not just mindlessly scrolling your eyes across the page.
I'd say figure out what you feel you need to gain from poetry - is it a way you wish to feel, an insight, just beautiful imagery, linguistic play, truth and meaning? Give us some pointers.

[Anonymous No.19361282]

>>19358332
i consider pic rel to be poetry. i dont consider mona lisa to be poetry. i see a difference.
> I don't think math and art should be grouped together
"should"s are revolting to me in these contexts and the fact you say it shouldn't happen would be enough for an artist to try. there is a similarity in a good metaphor and a good equation. both groups talk about beauty. both use language to describe the world in novel ways. both are about toying with rules and symbols and being innovative but within rules.

you say
>poetry is in words
but there is no definition of a word. funny. very meta. show me the poetry. point to me where it ends.

[Anonymous No.19361294]

This is a language which we have lost the ability to read.

[Anonymous No.19361305]

So in the
end

when one is doing

poetry

one gets to the point where one would like just to emit
an
in
arti
cul
ate sound

[Anonymous No.19361313]

O sweet spontaneous
earth how often have
the
doting

fingers of
prurient poets pinched
and
poked

thee
,has the naughty thumb
of science prodded
thy

beauty how
often have religions taken
thee upon their scraggy knees
squeezing and

buffeting thee that thou mightest conceive
gods
(but
true

to the incomparable
couch of death thy
rhythmic
lover

thou answerest


them only with

spring)

[Anonymous No.19361319]

>>19361282
>show me the poetry. point to me where it ends.
poetry is here
poetry ends here

[Anonymous No.19361328]

>>19361319
nice
also this one i liked
>>19359001

[Anonymous No.19361353]

>>19361313
A favourite by Cummings, nice

[Anonymous No.19361397]

>>19361282
Poetry is defined as much by its tradition and place in human history, as it is by the actual definition of the word being "a type of literature", which is based in language.
What you're suggesting has some of the qualities necessary to make it poetry but it falls short in several areas such as tradition, established semantics of its compositional blocks, and it's almost entirely divorced from the rest of human linguistics and is bound to stay that way for a while even if you were to establish "stick patterns" as a language, because much of the complexity and nuance of existing languages is going to be missing (not to mention you'll be breaking the link between spoken word and its visual representation).
In essence, you're going to be making art, just not poetry.

[Anonymous No.19361444]

>>19361397
interesting
can i write poems in a conlang?
if i wrote a poem with fake kanji, how would you know? and if noone can tell, why does it matter?
can pic rel be a poem?
can languages without script have poetry?
can there be sign language poetry?
can i write poems in a secret conlang?

[Anonymous No.19361564]

>>19361444
trips have been checked
>can i write poems in a conlang?
probably
>if i wrote a poem with fake kanji, how would you know?
I wouldn't?
>and if noone can tell, why does it matter?
none of the shit you're saying matters, that's kind of the point
>can pic rel be a poem?
quipus can prolly be/have been used to write a poem
>can languages without script have poetry?
yeah, oral literature
>can there be sign language poetry?
yes
>can i write poems in a secret conlang?
you're repeating yourself
I think you're kind of missing the point of what poetry is linguistically and culturally.
I have no idea why you're trying to cram the word "poetry" everywhere, just call it art.

[Anonymous No.19361584]

>>19361444
>>19361564
too tired to enter this debate, but I think both of you could be interested by the Groupe mu's works.
In Réthorique de la poésie especially they try to give a linguistic approach to the question of what constitutes poetry

[Anonymous No.19361594]

>>19353350
you're retarded and do not read poetry, you must delete your post now

[Anonymous No.19361603]

>>19361564
if i can write poems in my secret conlang and quipus can be used to write poems why can't i write my poems with sticks and water? i will be able to translate them. i think the word art is meaningless and i get vomit taste in my mouth when i use it unironically. it carries no ideas, while the word poetry carries ideas of rhythm, symbolism, composition, direction.
if i think
>what if i made a poem with these sticks
and it helps me arrange them in a novel and interesting way, then it was useful and made sense to call it a poem. language is my tool while it seems to be your prison.

[Anonymous No.19361619]

>>19361603
you might actually be retarded

[Anonymous No.19361658]

>>19361584
thank you, downloading it now

>>19361594
i will not and you will have to consider my ideas and remember this thread when they come true in a hundred years in the age of aminoacidhaikus, python epics and gasoline-in-water sonnets

[Anonymous No.19361684]

>This woman, who died long ago, was one of the primordial twins. She was one half of the divine syzygy. The purpose of the narrative is the recollection of her and of her death. The Mind does not wish to forget her. Thus the ratiocination of the Brain consists of a permanent record of her existence, and, if read, will be understood this way. All the information processed by the Brain–experienced by us as the arranging and rearranging of physical objects–is an attempt at this preservation of her; stones and rocks and sticks and amoebae are traces of her.

[Anonymous No.19361974]

I have been thumbing through William Dunbar's poems. My mother died a couple weeks ago. His serious poems are very melancholic.

I seik about this warld unstabille
To find ane sentence convenabille,
Bot I can nocht in all my wit
Sa trew ane sentence fynd of it,
As say, it is dessaveabille.

For yisterday I did declair
Quhow that the seasoun soft and fair
Com in als fresche as pako fedder;
This day it stangis lyk ane edder,
Concluding all in my contrair.

Yisterday fair up sprang the flouris;
This day thai ar all slane with schouris,
And fowllis in forrest that sang cleir
Now walkis with a drery cheir,
Full caild ar baith thair beddis and bouris.

So nixt to symmer wyntir bene,
Nixt efter confort, cairis kene,
Nixt dirk mednycht the mirthefull morrow,
Nixt efter joy aye cumis sorrow.
So is this warld and ay hes bene.

[Anonymous No.19362325]

poem I wrote.

Fall Arithmetic

Suppose I pass on foot ten trees a day;
And give each twenty limbs, or something near.
Each branch's pupils daily grow more sere,
And each lets five pale leaves fall by the way.

Then let be said that autumn makes three souls,
And thirty days until each spirit's death.
The simple product of the Reaper's breath
Makes ninety-thousand leaves hewn on my strolls.

I watch on every walk just one leaf flown,
Upon a century I'd know one year!
If I knew every leaf the wind has blown
As sages know each man's own essence clear,
Then I would be content and turn to stone --
Just give me one good fall to die sincere.

[Anonymous No.19362488]

I'm currently looking to start reading poetry, and am making my way through Paul Fussel's Poetic Meter and Poetic Form to assist in my ability to read them. I have found it useful thus far, however he seems to assume a level of ability in his readers which I've yet to attain (perhaps I'm a slow study).

An example in the chapter on scansion which I spent a particularly long time agonising over:

Back out of all this now too much for us,
Back in a time made simple by the loss
Of detail, burned, dissolved, and broken off

Fussel says of the last line that the metric pattern in the poem forces the reader to pronounce detail with emphasis on "tail", counter to the traditional pronunciation of the word. Am I right to presume then that the poem is written in iambic pentameter, with each of the first 2 lines starting with a trochee? If I am right about that, am I right in presuming that while the third line begins instead with an anapest, one would read the second line going straight into the third without pause, forcing the third line to follow the same metric pattern as those prior despite its different construction? If I'm right about this, does the final line also only have 4 feet?
This seems right to me, and seems to be the interpretation Fussel himself uses, however he doesn't go into much further detail about why the emphasis on "tail" is the way it is.

Further, does /lit/ reccomend any other (perhaps more modern) books which would assist in my reading of poetry?

[Anonymous No.19362686]

>>19353281
I have started reading some of the more popular poems of Rudyard Kipling, I'm really enjoying them. Can somebody recommend me some similar poets, either in the bold/directness of them, the patriotism, the sense of superiority and such?

Pic unrelated.

[Anonymous No.19362691]

>>19353350
when has a poem ever turned the world around?

[Anonymous No.19362697]

Heres my to-read for poetry/plays

[Anonymous No.19363501]

>>19362697
What're you preparing to do? Or is it just studying?

[Anonymous No.19363547]

>>19362691
shelley said 'poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world'

[Anonymous No.19363596]

>>19363501
Just study. Going over some overlooked poets I missed.

[Anonymous No.19363605]

The harbingers are come. See, see their mark:
White is their color, and behold my head.
But must they have my brain? Must they dispark
Those sparkling notions, which therein were bred?
Must dullness turn me to a clod?
Yet have they left me, Thou art still my God.

Good men ye be, to leave me my best room,
Ev’n all my heart, and what is lodgèd there:
I pass not, I, what of the rest become,
So Thou art still my God be out of fear.
He will be pleasèd with that ditty:
And if I please him, I write fine and witty.

Farewell sweet phrases, lovely metaphors.
But will ye leave me thus? When ye before
Of stews and brothels only knew the doors,
Then did I wash you with my tears, and more,
Brought you to church well dressed and clad:
My God must have my best, ev’n all I had.

Lovely enchanting language, sugar-cane,
Honey of roses, wither wilt thou fly?
Hath some fond lover ’ticed thee to thy bane?
And wilt thou leave the church and love a sty?
Fie, thou wilt soil thy broidered coat,
And hurt thyself, and him that sings the note.

Let foolish lovers, if they will love dung,
With canvas, not with arras, clothe their shame:
Let folly speak in her own native tongue.
True beauty dwells on high: ours is a flame
But borrowed thence to light us thither.
Beauty and beauteous words should go together.

Yet if you go, I pass not; take your way:
For Thou art still my God is all that ye
Perhaps with more embellishment can say.
Go, birds of spring: let winter have his fee;
Let a bleak paleness chalk the door,
So all within be livelier than before.

[Anonymous No.19363628]

>>19363605
I really like the parts that I can get. I get lost in what exactly he's trying to say, how do I overcome this? Multiple readings while checking words like 'fie' or 'thither"?

[Anonymous No.19363636]

>>19362686
i love Kipling's verse, idk what's similar tho, perhaps as a Kipling fan you might also like poets like John Masefield (picrel is an example), there's also the narrative poems of Scott, RLS, Byron, Morris etc.

[Anonymous No.19363645]

>>19363636
>John Masefield
Holy shit, that is amazing

[Anonymous No.19363709]

>>19362691
19th century european nationalism was largely influenced by poetry

[Anonymous No.19363755]

>>19363709
delusional

[Anonymous No.19363812]

>>19363755
checked retard

[Anonymous No.19364320]

>>19362691
ozymandias made me quit my plan of becoming an emperor grande desu

[Anonymous No.19364362]

>>19364320
What are you aiming for now?

[Anonymous No.19364394]

>>19364362
>As a matter of fact, none but advanced Mental Alchemists have been able to attain the degree of power necessary to control the grosser physical conditions, such as the control of the elements of Nature ; the production or cessation of tempests ; the production and cessation of earth quakes and other great physical phenomena . But that such men have existed, and do exist to- day, is a matter of earnest belief to all advanced occultists of all schools . That the Masters exist, and have these powers, the best teachers assure their students , having had experiences which justify them in such belief and statements. These Masters do not make public exhibitions of their powers, but seek seclusion from the crowds of men, in order to better work their way along the Path of Attainment . We mention their existence, at this point, merely to call your attention to the fact that their power is entirely Mental.

a garden, a library, and a pretty girl

[Anonymous No.19364443]

>>19353350
yea sure accelerationist wow very cool n these are neat poetic concepts n all but this is not fundamentally new from the ideas already introduced in surrealism.
when you think can predict how art is gonna look like usually those ideas have already been worked out. we'll see what the future holds but i hope more than what we already have

[Anonymous No.19364454]

>>19364443
your trivialist irony is most refreshing

[Anonymous No.19365183]

bump

[Anonymous No.19365778]

>>19358136
That is actually decent, and I haven't read much modern or Welsh poetry.

[Anonymous No.19365982]

>>19364394
based

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19366499]

There are some excellent snippets from Leavis' criticism wrt Victorian poetry I found quite insightful that I will share later when I am not phonefagging. I highly recommend Revaluations and his earlier book which I cannot remember the title even though I am reading it atm. I think he might be in the anti-Milton camp which is a shame but otherwise he is a great thinker. Would appreciate some other good critic recommendations.

[Anonymous No.19366952]

>>19366499
checked
we're w aiting on the name and pics

[Anonymous No.19366985]

>>19358901
>pretty good
no

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19368288]

>>19366952
The title is New Bearings in English Poetry (1932)

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19368293]

>>19368288

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19368312]

>>19368293
>Tennyson did his best.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19368332]

He devotes chapters in this book to praising T. S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, and Gerard Manley Hopkins and basically shows the genealogy between them and the Romantics. Yeats, De La Mare, and Thomas Hardy are important intermediaries between Eliot, Pound, and Hopkins and the great Victorian poets. Gets the old noggin churning.

[Anonymous No.19368336]

>>19353281
Some guy posted Hope by Bronte the other day and I really liked that. Not much of a poetry guy myself but I liked that.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19368366]

>n New Bearings in English Poetry (1932) he attacked English late Victorian poetry and proclaimed the importance of the work of T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, and Gerard Manley Hopkins, emphasizing wit and the play of intellect rather than late-Romantic sensuousness.
Encyclopedia Britannica

The way Leavis reviews individual books of poetry has inspired me to start finding the original editions of poets on archive.org rather than just reading anthologies of their work. It makes sense because that would be the best way to review a poet's progression as an artist.

[Anonymous No.19368372]

>>19353281
J'aime son mauvais gout, sa joupe brigarree, son grand chale boiteux, sa parole egaree, et son front retreci

-Baudelaire predicted Jackie

[Anonymous No.19368925]

>>19366499
Last week I read Ten Victorian Poets by FL Lucas.

[Anonymous No.19368932]

>>19353333
He wrongly interpreted want as desire.

[Anonymous No.19368937]

>>19368925
and currently reading the unabridged Lives of the Poets by Johnson, I don't think he'd like Pound and co. much. Neither did Lucas iirc.

[Anonymous No.19368965]

>>19362325
Anon that's genuinely beautiful. Really, seriously great. I think there are lines in it that are going to be coming back to me for the rest of the season. Such a wonderful and human piece.
Meanwhile, here's something ugly and inhuman that I wrote.

[Anonymous No.19368969]

>>19364320
Really? It just made me want to become an emperor even more, so I could show that dead metaphorical bastard how it's done.

[Anonymous No.19369090]

>>19368366
That book sounds like something I need to get! "New Bearings in English Poetry" by Leavis, yes?
Is it in print or am I looking for old copies?

[Anonymous No.19369106]

>>19358104
fuck me never heard of him, and his books second hand cost... If Oxford was doing a Selected Poems of his work which book would have more of his poetry in it?
>I'll post a list of recs when i'm home
"We're waiting!"

>>19358260
Great read. Thanks for a new name to look into

>>19360657
Cheers

>>19362325
I like it.

>>19358136
Decent.

>>19358214
>I'm studying in Brisbane for reference.
Queensland represent. Townsville here

[Anonymous No.19369113]

>>19369106
>your pic
Ah, man, now I'm too sad to go to sleep

[Anonymous No.19369146]

I guess he's not really obscure, but he's also not popular.

[Anonymous No.19369150]

>>19369146

[Anonymous No.19369160]

[Anonymous No.19369174]

>>19369146
That's prose

[Anonymous No.19369519]

>>19369146
>>19369150
>>19369160
I'd never come across him, this is very interesting, thanks, anon!

[Anonymous No.19369930]

>>19369106
That's a sentiment you won't see in poetry today.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19370005]

>>19368925
>>19368937
Thank you for the Lucas recommendation. Johnson's book is a classic but I have only read snippets about poets I was interested in. I should probably read the whole thing some day. Johnson definitely wouldn't have liked the modernists and I am not as keen on modernism as I was when I was probably the average age of this board. I prefer Hardy and Lawrence's poetry as far as that era goes, which is totally contrary to my sage's opinion... Though I think his description of the move from Romanticism to Modernism in poetry poignant. Seems like the kind of book that would be indispensable to understanding the why's and how's.

>>19369090
You can find any old book on archive.org. For example I am currently reading an early printing, if not the first edition, of Paradise Lost on there. Definitely check it out.

>>19369146
Been to Jeffers' house in Carmel, CA. Not a big fan of his poetry but he lived an admirable life.

[Anonymous No.19370458]

>>19353444
eliot and it aint even close

[Anonymous No.19370627]

>>19370458
based

[Anonymous No.19370641]

>>19370458
easily the best american poet of the time - by being british

[Anonymous No.19370813]

The Pope was in his chapel before day or battle broke,
(Don John of Austria is hidden in the smoke.)
The hidden room in man’s house where God sits all the year,
The secret window whence the world looks small and very dear.
He sees as in a mirror on the monstrous twilight sea
The crescent of his cruel ships whose name is mystery;
They fling great shadows foe-wards, making Cross and Castle dark,
They veil the plumèd lions on the galleys of St. Mark;
And above the ships are palaces of brown, black-bearded chiefs,
And below the ships are prisons, where with multitudinous griefs,
Christian captives sick and sunless, all a labouring race repines
Like a race in sunken cities, like a nation in the mines.
They are lost like slaves that sweat, and in the skies of morning hung
The stair-ways of the tallest gods when tyranny was young.
They are countless, voiceless, hopeless as those fallen or fleeing on
Before the high Kings’ horses in the granite of Babylon.
And many a one grows witless in his quiet room in hell
Where a yellow face looks inward through the lattice of his cell,
And he finds his God forgotten, and he seeks no more a sign—
(But Don John of Austria has burst the battle-line!)
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop,
Purpling all the ocean like a bloody pirate’s sloop,
Scarlet running over on the silvers and the golds,
Breaking of the hatches up and bursting of the holds,
Thronging of the thousands up that labour under sea
White for bliss and blind for sun and stunned for liberty.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19371267]

>>19370641
Why not both, like Henry James?

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19371282]

I leant upon a coppice gate
When Frost was spectre-grey,
And Winter's dregs made desolate
The weakening eye of day.
The tangled bine-stems scored the sky
Like strings of broken lyres,
And all mankind that haunted nigh
Had sought their household fires.

The land's sharp features seemed to be
The Century's corpse outleant,
His crypt the cloudy canopy,
The wind his death-lament.
The ancient pulse of germ and birth
Was shrunken hard and dry,
And every spirit upon earth
Seemed fervourless as I.

At once a voice arose among
The bleak twigs overhead
In a full-hearted evensong
Of joy illimited;
An aged thrush, frail, gaunt, and small,
In blast-beruffled plume,
Had chosen thus to fling his soul
Upon the growing gloom.

So little cause for carolings
Of such ecstatic sound
Was written on terrestrial things
Afar or nigh around,
That I could think there trembled through
His happy good-night air
Some blessed Hope, whereof he knew
And I was unaware.

[Anonymous No.19371331]

Where to post your poems?

[Anonymous No.19371399]

>>19371331
Make a poetry thread

[Anonymous No.19371414]

>>19371399
This is a poetry thread.

[Anonymous No.19371811]

>>19353350
Here’s something I wrote by inspiration of your post

Those delicate sweet figures! Those mutants made from bone! That which I desire mind and body, body and mind!
Oh how if I could turn fortunes wheel towards my cards & bring a sweetheart nearer! Then would I hold her in my palm & bite her melancholy skin to draw the hidden pigment within, a taste of the forbidden.

[Anonymous No.19371914]

What slender youth, bedew’d with liquid odors,
Courts thee on roses in some pleasant cave,
Pyrrha? For whom bind’st thou
In wreaths thy golden hair,
Plain in thy neatness? O how oft shall he
Of faith and changed gods complain, and seas
Rough with black winds, and storms
Unwonted shall admire!
Who now enjoys thee credulous, all gold,
Who, always vacant, always amiable
Hopes thee, of flattering gales
Unmindful. Hapless they
To whom thou untried seem’st fair. Me, in my vow’d
Picture, the sacred wall declares to have hung
My dank and dropping weeds
To the stern god of sea.

>>19366499
Leavis was a hack who poisoned English literary criticism for a generation.

[Anonymous No.19371986]

>>19353281
Ode to Buttercunt

this board should be a refuge from the tepid and tedious ideas of the herd (or the hive)
yet out of your chrysalis you have emerged
that foul cocoon disgorging, through mucus membranes torn apart by mandibles and chitinous limbs
locust-like, yet somehow worse
gay colours a cover for something evil and unseen
this fly, this insect
and there it sits, among a vile and viscous slime
collapsed to the ground
sodden wings feebly fluttering, buffeted this way and that by the social breeze
no independent mind within
no mind at all
but a behaviourist's black box
algorithmic and determined
perfectly predictable
and so you crawl, emerging from the filth of your birth
up a mouldering and poorly-plastered wall
stuck to the side, watching and waiting
for the moment most opportune
when, with the obstinacy of a parasite
you launch yourself
limbs spread-eagled in ungainly flight
a drunken and wavering meander
across the room, through chattered cries and diesel fumes
before alighting on a thread
your proboscis extends, penetrates with some insipid post
passes on some infectious, deleterious disease
until finally
at long last
you leave.

[Anonymous No.19372206]

Beginning of a poem I’m working on. Posting bc I’m bored

Je bois l’inépuisable
Rouge de l’ocre
D’un jour de pluie
Je bois l’inachevable
Blanc des étoiles
Sous la fenêtre
Je bois
Du vin
Devin
Divin
Et moins devin
Et moins divin
Je bois
Par plaisir
Et déplaisir
Je bois fanatiquement frénétiquement fatidiquement activement passivement parfaitement fatalement je bois
Je bois
Ce que je vois
Je bois
Ce qui est là
Pour être bu
Par moi

>shitty translation

I drink the bottomless
Ochre’s red
Of a rainy day
I drink the unfinishable
Stars’ white
Under the window
I drink
Divine
Diviner
Wine
And less divine
And less diviner
I drink
By pleasure
And displeasure
I drink fanatically frenetically fatefully actively passively perfectly fatally I drink
I drink
What I see
I drink
What is here
To be drunk
By me

[Anonymous No.19372325]

>>19371914
nice milton
>>19371986
fuck off retard

[Anonymous No.19372872]

Been awhile since I posted on /lit/. Here's something meagre

We stretch ourselves into further dissaray,
finding promises in husks and shells,
On abandoned seaside towns by the bay.
Small dreams bloom and die to be found again.

To be shown in postcards, carrying salty air and smudged ink
From a tourist store bought pen,
Sent to who knows where.
But I know it's sent to the air,
As i wait pensively: the only ship docked.

And i'll leave, only to find my self deadlocked,
Trapped in a hedgehog's dilemma, rapidly
Turning the clock of rapidly dying seasons,
Blending together as if they never existed at all,
Leaving its' parting gift at the harbour of virgin ice,

With my bomber jacket and skullcap to suffice.
No need to touch another, if they do not say hello first.
No need to stare, if they blink first-
Then why do i feel such thirst?

From when the younger, more ideal, me
Had his heart filling to burst?
The seasons lasted eternally,
And their coming deaths were a surprise, always.

I'd say 'hello' and shake hands in the hallways.
I would know you, if you cared to know anything at all-
Or if your eyes were shrewd enough, curious enough, to close the gap first.

Close the gap to this anchored boat, see if the weight can be lifted; the hedgehog's quills dulled and put away, as we sail into the fog beyond the bay

[Anonymous No.19372946]

>>19368965
Thank you so much for the kind words anon! I was actually very insecure about that poem, I worried that it didn't get its point across, so thank you for reassuring me. I liked your poem a lot too, it's so visceral. The skin sliding over bone is a good image. Ironically I feel like our poems end in kind of similar places, even though they are very different.
I wrote that poem after reading A Shropshire Lad, so I'll leave one from the master to beautify the thread.

When I was one-and-twenty
I heard a wise man say,
“Give crowns and pounds and guineas
But not your heart away;
Give pearls away and rubies
But keep your fancy free.”
But I was one-and-twenty,
No use to talk to me.

When I was one-and-twenty
I heard him say again,
“The heart out of the bosom
Was never given in vain;
’Tis paid with sighs a plenty
And sold for endless rue.”
And I am two-and-twenty,
And oh, ’tis true, ’tis true.

[Anonymous No.19372988]

A wise nigger tongued my mother's anus
and this is what he said:
You have a dick and your mother fine tits
why aren't you in her bed?

[Anonymous No.19373003]

Madriiax iadanamad solpeth lava sa prge
Zorge gi imvamar, fetharsi dsabramg
Marebe mahorela

[Anonymous No.19373019]

>>19368965
Not bad

>>19370813
Amazing

>>19371282
>In blast-beruffled plume,
Had chosen thus to fling his soul
Upon the growing gloom

me likey

>>19372872
Fire

[Anonymous No.19373057]

>>19372946
Housman is one of my very favourite poets. If you haven't, read his later collections: Last Poems, More Poems and the posthumous Additional Poems. They're even more cutting and personal.

He would not stay for me, and who can wonder?
He would not stay for me to stand and gaze.
I shook his hand, and tore my heart in sunder,
And went with half my life about my ways.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19373075]

>>19373019
Glad you enjoyed the Hardy poem

[Anonymous No.19373098]

>>19370813
Good. I'd avoid using "a laboring race repines" and then repeat " a race in sunken cities". Maybe sub in "tribe" for one of the uses of race, if the meter permits?

[Anonymous No.19373125]

This is a poem I wrote for myself a couple of years ago, was going through a rough breakup and poetry helped a bit. (I loved Jack Gilbert's Failing and Flying, just seemed like such a good meditation on love and loss and finitude. Anyways:


In Search of Lost Time

It’s strange, the first time you realize
That there was something you had lost
And you wander, absentmindedly searching,
For a thing that can not be put back.

Yet I remember, as clear as day, how her
Hair used to fall across her face.
The way she squinted, and how her brown eyes
Sparked, when her gaze caught mine.

Then, I reach back to remember the feeling
Of her coarse blankets, and I suddenly begin to fall,
Over and over again, into the cascade,
The quiet thunder of her.

And in my mind I’m with her on that pastel couch,
Adrift together amidst a sea of paper and ink.
She bites the end of her pencil while her soft brow
Furrows, and I forget our work, just watching her.

And as we sat over our gently steaming coffee,
I felt the whole world unfurl its canvas beneath us,
And we made reckless promises
That I would give anything to have kept.

I remember even the awe I felt when we fought.
That feeling, beneath the anger,
That I was in the presence of something strange and beautiful,
Like a blinding sunrise amidst jagged mountain peaks.

But all this fades, as I grasp at the shadows
Which cannot help but dim and blur.
And again I lose her, as vividly as that day when
I, already missing her, said our last goodbye.

And when the pain is gone, and the ice within my chest
Has melted into a tired apathy, I can still feel
The hollow outline of that familiar shape
Where she had pressed herself in me.

[Anonymous No.19373128]

>>19373075
I don't know who Hardy is :/

[Anonymous No.19373145]

>>19373098
Lmaooooo

[Anonymous No.19373179]

>>19373145
lol what? The reuse of "race" within like ten words is kinda jarring. I feel like word repetition is one of those things you want to avoid unless the word repetition is explicitly the point, which it doesn't seem to be in this case.

[Anonymous No.19373232]

>>19373179
Sorry for laughing anon, it's just that anon did not write this, G. K. Chesterton wrote it a century ago.
I personally think that the word repetition flows nicely and connects the two lines, but you are entitled to your opinion of course.

[Anonymous No.19373240]

>>19373125
pretty

[Anonymous No.19373260]

>>19373232
hahahahahaha ok that's actually really funny. Gonna go dig up Chesterton and tell him my unsolicited advice!

[Anonymous No.19373346]

Love

Love is not where knives are drawn,
Nor where the tongue of spite is heard,
The Tongue of Love is sweet and mild,
Its Heart being torn. . . speaks not a word!
Love is gentle, Love is kind,
Never breaks a bond, nor promise,
Love still stands when all else falls,
Oh listen, you doubting Thomas!
Love's not for those who dressed in thorns
Travel a selfish lover's path,
Who drink the life from those who give,
Then brand them with a fiery wrath!
Love is never Understood
By those especially who praise it most,
For Love in Silence performs sweet Acts,
As Secret as the Holy Ghost!

The swine are always at the table,
The wolves are always at the door,
And Love (crucified in between them)
Performs good works Forever more!
MS

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19374416]

>>19371914
I have some favorite novelists and poets that certainly wouldn't make the Leavis cut. But you have to admit he is good at describing the why's and wherefore's of currents in poetry and novels. I am pretty sure he is anti-Milton as many of the modernists were, but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to like Milton. Eliot and above all Pound I can hardly enjoy anymore even if he ranks them so high in the book I recommended; he ranks them justly since they really were a huge breath of fresh air. The whole Romantic "dream within a dream" as Poe would have it had been beaten to death by the time Eliot and Pound were on the scene.

If this thread is still up, I will post some screenshots tomorrow of what he wrote about Eliot. He's good at explaining just why these posts were so fresh compared to what was leading up to them.

Needless to say, I wouldn't say he poisoned the well of criticism for a generation. That's going a bit too far. If anything, it seems WW2 played a much bigger role in poisoning the well because everything has been so shit since then.

[Anonymous No.19374838]

>>19374416
I'm very much looking forward to your screenshots on Eliot, fren. I think we're on the cusp of spilling over into another artistic movement, at least in poetry, because I feel the glorification of the mundane and the small people problems that have been choking poetry for decades has reached some critical mass and I personally can't tolerate it anymore.

[Anonymous No.19375579]

>>19374416
bump, waiting

[Anonymous No.19376138]

I wrote this poem about a boy in my class whose face I wished to see but could not because of the evil mask

>It's so bad I live in this era,
>Because I can't see your face
>But here's the place on tera,
>That my hearts in its case
>Though your mind brims with lies,
>And you bow to the hydras rag,
>When I see those glacier blue eyes,
>It reminds me of that Atlantean tag
>You could be the heir of the devil,
>Or have a heart twisted and gray,
>But as long as something makes you revel,
>Please lounge on this dark earth and stay

[Anonymous No.19376170]

>>19376138
if you're a fag that's cute
if you're a girl, that's cute and show pics

[Anonymous No.19376240]

>>19373019
Hey man, thank you for the reply! it's been a long road, wrapping my head around metre, but I think I'm getting the hang of it.

[Anonymous No.19376259]

>>19362325
This is a very nice poem anon, but your math is wrong.

[Anonymous No.19376267]

>>19376170
Well I’ve written female protagonist since before I ever cared for woman. Perhaps my writing would do better under a pen name, thanks for the advice.

[Anonymous No.19376291]

>>19376240
Bless up!

[Anonymous No.19376292]

If someone did read Virgil in both latin and english, does some aestetics and understandings get lost in a modern language?

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19377098]

>>19374838
>>19375579
Sorry I am so slow I decided to grab a few phone screencaps before this thread dies.

What is remarkable about Eliot is how he basically bypasses Milton and decided to fuse the Metaphysical poets and the early Modern English drama with a modern sensibility.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19377111]

>>19377098
It seems to me that based on what Leavis writes, it is vital to come up with a personal canon and fuse it with your own experience for good poetry. Identify the errors of your own time and take what good you can from tradition without being derivative. It's a fine line to tread.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19377128]

>>19377111
His comments on Milton follow here and my next post. Leavis is referring to Eliot's criticism of Milton.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19377142]

I’ll rate some poems later when I get the chance.

in midnight mirage mingle I my mind,
with briars of desires of blithe I bind,
transvoke I the phantasmagoria
great delirium theoria.

cry the psalm!
eye on palm!

magnify i demon dementia
of kadmon adam adamantia,
bled from stones of hexecontalic kind,
behold the obelisk of my design!

vault of night!
bolt of light!


square on square the cube of typhonius,
the leper Leap of Leo Nemeaeus,
mouths like horeb mount but made to utter
the songs of foreign name and many color.

death in strife!
breath of life!

damaru and kangling melodious
above and below the skulls odious,
bhairava Sunyata the twofold wrath,
I am the nameless one whose name is ATh.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19377161]

>>19377128
>Its staple idiom and movement derive immediately from modern speech.

I feel this is the immediate conundrum any poets of today have. Do you keep on with the rhythms of modern speech or pull out the meter? I get the impression that though the Modernists revitalized verse, poetry has been kind of at a dead-end since then. Some of the confessional poets are enjoyable, but most poets today are academics just playing word games. Feels as if the modernist style is inescapable, which may not be a bad thing in itself (nor do I consider Milton to be a bad poet at all, he just played a big role in creating the moribund Victorian poetry that preceded the Modernists).

[Anonymous No.19377757]

>>19377098
I'd never thought about that "skip" he did, huh.
>>19377111
>it is vital to come up with a personal canon and fuse it with your own experience for good poetry
This is probably the closest one can come to a recipe for poety, like holy shit. I think many of the aspiring /lit/ poets simply do not understand this, especially the "personal canon" part. And that for them to draw on tradition, they have to read all sorts of poetry. They can have favourites, of course, but they HAVE to read as much as they can and analyze the 'how' and the 'why'.
>>19377161
>A man's most vivid emotional and sensuous experience is inevitably bound up with the language that he actually speaks.
I believe Modernists *begun* the revitalization of verse, but they never saw it through to the end because of war. The trajectory of verse, and literature as a whole, was irrevocably changed by that equation of total annihilation; the work was never finished.
For me, the reasons for confessional poetry being so prevalent in our day are two: on one hand, after being faced with horror and grief beyond the ability of the rational mind to deal with, the psyche of Europeans broke in a very particular way. There was suddenly no grey area, no middle ground where one could comfortably stand and make reasonable declarations. The idea that art could change anything suddenly sounded childish, but the thirst to create could never be quenched. So poets reached out towards the smallest unit of humanity they hoped they could inflict change upon - themselves. Confession, after all, is not about others. Perhaps we could be absolved of sins, they thought, perhaps we could find a way to sleep at night.
On the other hand capitalism and the atomisation of society in the second half of the 20th century brought individualism into sharp relief. The self as seen and actualized through the self, and not through others, became the core concept around which newer generations tried to build themselves up. Social media and the internet cementented this as a principle of being, but now people are far removed from the horrors which first inspired confessional poetry, and they have become numb to the world. Without being vulnerable to what is around them, to the experiences offered, their imagery and by extension their language become flat and eventually blend together into verse you can no longer separate by poet. Ironically, collectively they are the voice of a generation, but as individual poets in the age of absolute individualism they are but pieces made from the same mould.
Continued in the next reply.

[Anonymous No.19377789]

Ah, Ah, Ah- Atchoo!
Sneezing until I go mad
Damn sinusitis

[Anonymous No.19377829]

>>19377161
>>19377757
cont.
I think what is going to happen now is that the work of the Modernists is going to finally be continued. The revitalization of verse is going to be resumed, but now with radically new tools available to us as poets.
The most important such tool, I believe, is going to be Weltpoesie, or world poetry. I know that much of poetry can be said is already 'world' poetry, but I do not think it has ever been as delineated as the more broad weltliteratur.
And the first poets who will write such poetry are going to be the ones who do not write in their native tongues. English (and other languages) can be infused with meaning by different cultures, and with linguistic structures and words by other languages. Eliot's work is nascent weltpoesie in that it attempts to weave multiple languages in its verse, but it is much more obvious and immature in execution compared to what I think we will see in the coming decades.
I (not a native English speaker) am trying to wrap my poetry around this concept of weltpoesie, though it does require a lot of work, a lot of reading and knowledge, and above all - vulnerability.

[Anonymous No.19377848]

>>19377161
>>19377757
cont.
I think what is going to happen now is that the work of the Modernists is going to finally be continued. The revitalization of verse is going to be resumed, but now with radically new tools available to us as poets.
The most important such tool, I believe, is going to be Weltpoesie, or world poetry. I know that much of poetry is already 'world' poetry, but I do not think it has ever been as delineated as the broader weltliteratur.
And the first poets to write Weltpoesie are going to be the ones who do not write in their native tongues. English (and other languages) can be infused with meaning by different cultures, and with linguistic structures and words by other languages. Eliot's work is nascent weltpoesie in that it attempts to weave multiple languages in its verse, but it is much more obvious and immature in execution compared to what I think we will see in the coming decades.
I (not a native English speaker) am trying to wrap my poetry around this concept of weltpoesie, though it does require a lot of work, a lot of reading and knowledge, and above all - vulnerability.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19377995]

>>19377757
>>19377848
In the event that this thread dies before I can form a cogent response, I want to thank you for your effortpost. Your first one has a lot of cogs turning in my head and I am eager to read part two.

[Anonymous No.19378028]

>>19377995
If it dies, I'll make a part two. The success of this thread shows my experiment was a success - /lit/ desperately wants quality discussion!

[Anonymous No.19378092]

>>19353363
American prayer- James Douglas Morrison

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19378169]

>>19377757
I appreciate your psychological take on how these movements came about, such as confessional poetry being in response to World War II and feeling a need for absolution. Perhaps it could even be said the sort of post-Romantic Victorian dreamscapes were even a case of sticking one's head in the sand when leading up to that catastrophe. When we consider the absence of satirical verse during the 19th century, which acted as a corrective in previous eras, that is also relevant to our time and it would be interesting to see satire come again on the scene. That could shake things up a bit. There is a translator of Dante named Anthony Esolen who does work like this but he comes off as just preaching to the choir, along with his other peers. So I have yet to see potential along this line.

Your concept of weltpoesie is interesting and to some degree that has been explored by poets, especially here in California. Jerome Rothenberg is a name that comes immediately to mind. It seems inevitable given the status of English, but what makes English so different as a lingua franca compared to Latin or French is that there is no particular level of refined speech you are expected to emulate e.g. Frederick the Great speaking courtly French. I think you are right that there is potential for development in this direction building off what we see in The Wasteland. This might be the only thing that breaks up the monotony of what you described earlier concerning individualists blending into collective voices.

Again, thank you for your imaginative post anon. Leavis has some other good criticism on English novels I recommend, especially the Great Tradition. Conrad is a great example of an ESL doing the kind of work you have in mind but for prose. We'll see if such things happen in poetry.

[Anonymous No.19378274]

>>19378169
You're absolutely right about why English has the greatest potential.
Conrad is a good example, but he's outdated. I'm thinking something more refined and of-our-times. I don't know if you've been on any of the poetry threads recently, maybe you've seen excerpts of my work there.
Thank you, fren, it feels nice engaging like this with someone. I'm definitely going to go over the books you showed me.
Another interesting discussion can be had about Charles Olson's projective verse in relation to what we discussed up there, but it is late where I am and I gotta sleep.

[Anonymous No.19378932]

>>19377142
has a nice flow to it. kinda reminds me of joyce.

--Inspired by this girl i matched with who keeps texting me but can never seem to find the time to set up a second date


what do you want with me?
im down bad, girl
down bad..
just looking for one
good
girl
to give my all to
but feel like I'm what's left

ghost me, bitch
ghost me
dont leave me hanging on a thread
standing still and watch the world move
got no time to be your friend
--

[Anonymous No.19379771]

The Scholar has grown old his shoulders hunch
and his many papered books collect dust on
shelves that toll like church bells to him.
His expression grim his face void and colorless
it took him 50 years to guess
he’s pissed away life's savings on a bird's nest.
But the best he can say is it's worth it, yes,
for no one else paid his expense!
And who should say it’s worse how he went?
A fun life is always well spent.

[Anonymous No.19379786]

i love this one

[Anonymous No.19380540]

>>19379771
mid

“Sometimes I get tired too, buddy, know what I mean?”
the janitor said, who walks around collecting luchtrays
and emptying trash cans or lifting the day
and saying polite, to kids who aren't,
“know what I mean?”

[Anonymous No.19380836]

>>19353321
I think the second translation served you as a kind of helpful commentary on the first, superior translation (poetically speaking)-- want, need, poverty, desire are more or less the same thing, though each word pulls in a slightly different semantic direction away from the essential 'lack or void' that requires fulfilling. Of the four words 'want' comprehends the push and pull or 'tension' of the semantic sum best: the word is (or should be) charged: 'electric' -- the second translation allowed you to see this better in the first.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19380910]

>>19358104
Check out David barnitz and William davies
>>19361282
In truth the only actual place you’ll find widespread popular poetry today and in the future is in song creation, the visual arts and so forth do not partake of the one thing essential to the poem, and that is that it must be a coherent unity of form with word content. As soon as you are doing considerations beyond the form of the words (word choice, word order, line, stanza position and so forth) it no longer is a question of poetry.

>>19361313
>>19361353
Man I really don’t like cummings.

>>19362691
Religious poetry, most cultures have historical sacred songs, the Bible’s poetry has conquered earth, in Arabia pre Islam they would have tribal disputes settled by a third party tribe, in which the two opposing tribes would compose poems for the battle, in china there were government examines which required ability in poetry. So you can go on and on like this.

>>19368332
Only one in that group in my eye that is enjoyable is Hopkin, does he trace the decadent/aesthetician roots of hopkin through Walter pater?

>>19373003
Nice enochian poem, here’s one of mine.

Micma, oi od tol conisbra __(your name)__ gnay fifis a iaiadix od zuraah. C sald marb de a aldaraia od basedaga piamol; Ol oherela lap olora, goho Mad Zilodarp; GEMEGANZA; tofglo, marb symp, urbs a aldaraia. Oi Olpirt de Ialpirgah I a zimz c ds olora gnay camliax nonca, malpirgi de Iaida.. Oecrimi pambt Iadpil, nomig Ioiad. Solpeth de a micalz Ozongon de Luach fafen pild amgedpha a sapah de a mozod, ofekufa aspt a madrid de a babalond. Torzu Madimi, brita od zacam gmicalzo. zacar ca od zamran, odo cicle qaa; zorge lap zirdo noco mad, hoath Iaida.


Translation

Behold this and all works of man (your Name) does carry out with honor and humility. "With wonder according to the Will of God and holy righteousness; I make a law for man," saith The God of Stretch Forth and Conquer*; Your will be done; all things, according to another, beautify the Will of God. This Light of the Flames of First Glory it is the vestures with which man does speak to you, fiery darts of The Highest. Sing praises unto He That Lives, even as He That Lives Forever. Hearken to the mighty Winds of praising angels that continually begin anew the mighty sounds of the joy of God, elevated before the iniquity of the harlot. Arise Madimi, I have talked of you and I move you in power. Move, therefore and show yourselve. Be friendly unto me for I am the servant of the same your god, the true worshipper of the highest.


>>19376138
Try to write about something inhuman.

>>19377757
I disagree with this “revitalization “ of verse ideal, by this I mean to say, when we actually analyze the modernists, what have they done? Free verse? Whitman and long before him, Blake and long long long before them the entirety of ancient Semitic poetry is in free verse, make it fixated on the self experiencing emotion and sublime, even sublime in the mundane?

Don’t

[Anonymous No.19380926]

>>19380910
wh davies? he isn't obscure

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19380945]

>>19380910
Cont*

Well that’s the major project of romanticism so it’s not that, and confession, confession doesn’t derive from them either, prior to Whitman (who is the master of modern confession.) the confession derives from de Quincey’s opium eater, firmly in the romantic tradition and resultant in a multitude of similar highly refined in terms of prose/verse texts in French decadent and Parnassian literature. The major movement of modern poetry is precisely what robbed it of all vigor. The unification of confessional style, with a poundian fixation on politics, mix this with the mundane aesthetic focus, but blend this with an unstudied free verse, for while I do not like them, pound and Elliot weren’t ignorant of metrical nor non-metrical poetic traditions, their imitators very clearly were, the result is a non-musical line which has not strength of image nor power in the rhythm which is chiefly concerned with temporal politics OR, is so tied up in empathy and association of ideal that you cannot read it without also reading a biography and needing of feel sympathy for the writers situation. The result of this is clear, the lack of refinement of our arts musically and the falling away of them so harshly that the field of poetry had to be reinvented from the ground up, and by that I mean, songs in general and especially rap arose out of dedication to metrical regularity or at minimum musical rhythm, mixed with rhyme, on topics of natural earthy abundance, wealth, fame, power, honor, drinking, all of the ancient topics of sensual poetry. This is the actual revitalization of poetry through Atavism, modernism by all regards if we look at what it did, is it split poetry down the middle.

One half so reference filled and caring so much on rhythmical aspects that don’t sound good but rather make statements usually in shitty temporal politics and inferior philosophy, and these completely cannot be read by the non poet/poetry fixated, instead being written for other poets to circle jerk with. Perfect example here being ashberry and in many regards pound himself relies on you going “I KNOW THAT REFERENCE!” Instead of ability.

The other half divided it into such a simplistic confessional style and this I believe is even more damaging, because it corrupted the conception of poetry in the broader mind to being this highly emotional but mindless practice which is based on arbitrarily dividing prose with no consideration other than getting the emotion out, and the natural result of this is poetry becoming inspirational quotes for people who share our feelings in the most vague general sense. Sylvia Plath is the mother of rupi kaur.

Both of these tell the average person they shouldn’t read poetry and that it isn’t for them, when in truth poetry is not a hardly divided thing from prose, but because of this style, no one considers poetry something to be enjoyed really.

This division is modernism.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19380948]

>>19380926
Never seen him discussed online so he’s obscure for these circles, Vernon watkins is another name which comes to mind.

[Anonymous No.19380970]

>>19380910
They didn't invent free verse, they re-introduced it in poetry. English at the time really sorely needed to break the mould. Towards the middle/end of the 19th century poets had begun talking about nothing, about the dream of a dream, which is beautiful but ultimately says very little and was disconnected from the reality people experienced. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the poets wrote about ancient times and myths, that particular form of verse lends itself very well to the depiction of mythology, but by the 19th century there was very little to mythologize in the world thanks to the Enlightenment.
People needed poetry that spoke about the world they found themselves in, and that required someone to look at verse critically, to do away with the structures that were no longer useful and to (re)introduce new ones that could make sense of the experiences. The world was picking up pace, and everyday language was matching pace, but verse was starting to lag behind. Modernists found a way through experimentation to speak MEANINGFULLY (as Wittgenstein would have it) about this new world.
I think we find ourselves in a similar situation. Contemporary confessional poetry attempts to bridge the gap between the inner world of the poet and the strange, hyper-technological, hyper-capitalistic, hyper-individualistic and totally atomized outside world. Some of them manage better than others, but they've come upon the same obstacle that the Romantics encountered and couldn't break through.
Poetry as it is today is ill-equipped to talk meaningfully about the imagery and life experiences we're immersed in, and the most successful attempts to change this (that I can think of right now) are Adonis, Anne Carson and Transtromer.
Now is the time for radical change in verse. One such change that I can see would be if poetry tries to speak of faith and faithlessness and approaches this issue with everything humanity has learned about itself over the last century.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19380976]

>>19377848
As for this world poetry, you’re actually mistaken. It wouldn’t be new but rather very old, something we see commonly in medieval times is playful verse mixing Latin and other common tongues, and older we see again in the Bible integration of foreign terminology to lend asiatic texture, this is also what happened in the poem kubla khan but also, we see it in the historical “asiatic” rhetorical school. And the complaints of the attics and of Cicero against it still remains, that it will render itself harder to understand by even more people which neuters it rhetorically. While it may boost musicality, any rhetorical beauty and turn of phrase will be harmed, in very small amounts such as “che sara sara” in Faust or songs commonly sang in one language then the second stanza is the repetition but translated this isn’t a problem, but the first example gets by on account of short and small amount, the latter gets by on the power of music itself and throwing away all aspects of poetic beauty other than sound. A good example of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEM8TspcCBY

However Eliot, pound and Joyce are all fantastic examples of how obscurity of line on account of using differing and strange language can make people not want to read you, being “filtered” is really finding the book unenjoyable because it isn’t in a form that can be consumed and rhetorically move you. Joyce and dosto play the same game, and while I consider dosto’s prose to be utilitarian; since both men aim at an ideal/preaching end, who among us can claim dosto isn’t the superior in preaching, converting men to his beliefs and his philosophy? Is Joyce much more controlling and mighty and refined in ability to manipulate texts? Or course, but when this has infected the text itself to such a high point that the person cannot comprehend what they’re reading, then all rhetorical power and the majority of beauty is drained, thus dosto has more power over the average person than Joyce.

What you’re arguing for would be to strip verse of even further power by boosting the obscurity. I am fine with obscure poetry if you’re writing for yourself, but if the ideal is revitalization of the public interest and power over the masses, the atavism of rap is the better option.

[Anonymous No.19380991]

>>19380945
>The major movement of modern poetry is precisely what robbed it of all vigor. The unification of confessional style, with a poundian fixation on politics, mix this with the mundane aesthetic focus, but blend this with an unstudied free verse, for while I do not like them, pound and Elliot weren’t ignorant of metrical nor non-metrical poetic traditions, their imitators very clearly were, the result is a non-musical line which has not strength of image nor power in the rhythm which is chiefly concerned with temporal politics OR, is so tied up in empathy and association of ideal that you cannot read it without also reading a biography and needing of feel sympathy for the writers situation.
Absoluely true. There is no arguing this, poets today do not respect the poetic traditions and their attempts to speak meaningfully of the world are anemic and the energy they manage to infuse in their work fades away in years, if not months.
I don't like pound precisely because of what you mentioned, a good poet should write in a way that can reach as many people as possible while still leaving enough obscure and not immediately accessible bits to make people want to learn more about literature and the world in order to understand. Pound is just jerking himself off on the page most of the time.
>Sylvia Plath is the mother of rupi kaur.
I agree. Though I'd like to say that the experiences Sylva Plath draws upon to write her poetry is incomparable to Kaur's and that makes her poetry immeasurably more valuable and meaningful. Kaur seems adrift and there is no profundity in her work because she's never had through profound experiences, or if she has, she has shut them out out of fear/pain, which is what most people do these days.
The poor skills and lack of education in modern poets shouldn't be what we judge Modernism by, though. That's precisely it. Modernism started with poets like Hopkins and Eliot whose verse is undeniably genius, but they spawned generations of imitators who could not hope to gain the same level of erudition and feel for language and ended up writing worse and worse poetry. Then came the imitators of the imitators, and so on. Nowadays we're not reading poetry that stems from life, we're reading poetry that stems from other poetry, going several generations back. That's why their work is flat and just shitty.

[Anonymous No.19380998]

>>19380976
I'd like to point out that when I say "new" I mean new in the current context. I know all of these htings are mostly rediscoveries or reintroductions.
There was miscommunication here. I didn't mean that we should start writing multilingual poetry, I'm mostly against that because of
> it will render itself harder to understand by even more people which neuters it rhetorically
this. I meant something more akin to Walter Benjamin's idea of translation bringing languages together, driving them closer to 'pure' language (what he called the language of God). My idea was something more subtle and easy to understand, that's why I said Eliot's attempts are immature.
I think if we can find the right level of obscurity, we can spark people's desire to learn again, to make them want to know more just so that they can unlock even more meaning and beauty in the poem, but that is going to be very hard work. If we're not careful we can end up writing for those who already know what we speak of, and we would have achieved nothing.

[Anonymous No.19381006]

>>19380948
but not for a poetry major

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19381008]

>>19380970
>English at the time really sorely needed to break the mould.

I mean you say this but I extremely disagree as a lover of Victorian, Symbolist, decadent and romantic poetry, and we can see for example in India how never breaking from the metrical and historical tradition actually kept their poetic tradition fully alive today and booming, and further, becoming more and more refined on a technical level, more refined than anything we have in English.

>Towards the middle/end of the 19th century poets had begun talking about nothing,

I believe in art for arts sake, aesthetic for its own value, it shouldn’t have to “speak” or connect with you in an ideal level, it shouldn’t relate to you, if you want these things you ought go to philosophy where ideas have mastery, no rather poetry has always been a thing of pleasure, of music, of fantasy, of glorification and abundance.

>about the dream of a dream, which is beautiful but ultimately says very little and was disconnected from the reality people experienced.

No more disconnected than the writings of Edmund Spenser with the English, no more disconnected than William Blake with the English, no more disconnected than Ovid with the Romans, no more disconnected than li-he and Han-yu with the Chinese, no more disconnected than with Ariosto and the Italians, no more disconnected than Pindar or Horace or holderlin, no really the point wasn’t ever relation of the normie but ability to carve image and sound that even if you didn’t relate you would be forced to relate, by rhetorical ability and by condensing of idea into sensuality so much so that anyone could enjoy it and become lost in the writers imagination-world. The modernists killed the imagination and the music by majority.

>I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the poets wrote about ancient times and myths,

The oldest poems in history write of the (even further) ancient days and myths, it’s because these things are inherently very beautiful.
>but by the 19th century there was very little to mythologize in the world thanks to the Enlightenment.

The symbolists, decadents, weird fiction and early fantasy basically all destroy this argument as does the contemporary verse from India.

>People needed poetry that spoke about the world they found themselves in,

You say that but this also coincided with the loss of poetry as a popular artform. So no I don’t believe it was needed, rather it caused the opposite.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19381018]

>>19381008
>To do away with the structures that were no longer useful

See that’s the problem, pretty much all of the forms were useful and are useful if applied properly because they literally sound good and assist in the texture of the piece. Or do you think rhythmical regulation doesn’t make something sound better? Studies show it often does, rhyme even more so. And again, the music industry isn’t a liar, people want both.

>The world was picking up pace, and everyday language was matching pace

I have seen nothing expressed in the plain language poetry which hasn’t been expressed in the past and better with the older forms, the plain language form you shill simply results in vulgarity and simple platitudes. Show me a poem in plain language that speaks of something impossible in the traditional form.

>Modernists found a way through experimentation to speak MEANINGFULLY (as Wittgenstein would have it) about this new world.

But they haven’t, they become either so macrocosmic or so microcosmic that they appeal to no one but the in group of people who want to write poetry, nor is “meaning” the God of poetry, beauty is.


>Anne Carson

I’ve read her, not impressed.

>Now is the time for radical change in verse. One such change that I can see would be if poetry tries to speak of faith and faithlessness and approaches this issue with everything humanity has learned about itself over the last century.

Nah I’m of the firm opinion our current tradition of poetry is a zombie and the only place the average person will go is music which at this point has no direct connection to the historical poetry, and this is because the God of music is beauty, which is why it will always have more appeal as an art than that art which tries to sacrifice beauty for attempts at meaning, which again, are better suited to philosophy writing.

>>19381006
Fair enough. The Bharavi-magha-Rambhadracharya line of poetry may be more interesting because while it’s popular in Indian, I assume its an English poetry fixation and not broader.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19381037]

>Sylva Plath draws upon to write her poetry is incomparable to Kaur's and that makes her poetry immeasurably more valuable and meaningful.

You say this but I’ve seen so many lines from Plath that have absolutely no power in their lonesome without the assumption that we ought care about the authors life, an assumption no other art requires of us today and which poetry historically didn’t require of us. Example her lines “starless, fatherless.” Who could possibly see any actual imagery from that contrast or be moved?

>Kaur seems adrift and there is no profundity in her work because she's never had through profound experiences,

See you say this, but I think this applies equally to the modernists, if I point to Elliot his entire point is he is adrift, and he doesn’t know where he is, and it is clear from his work the actual sacred and profound is so far from him. The image he produces is of an aesthetician in his home contemplating a cross, no different from Oscar Wilde’s sphinx poem.


>The poor skills and lack of education in modern poets shouldn't be what we judge Modernism by, though.

The poor quality and skill is precisely the only thing to judge artwork by.

>Modernism started with poets like Hopkins

See on this I don’t agree, Hopkins is in the religious-decadent movement, he’s far closer to Swinburne than Elliot.

>and Eliot whose verse is undeniably genius,

And I don’t see this in him either, because when you remove all of his references and quotes you are left with a shell whose musical ability isn’t as musical as Whitman nor as musical as the best of the romantics, so to call it genius when it isn’t even the best in class, it’s excessive.

>we're reading poetry that stems from other poetry, going several generations back. That's why their work is flat and just shitty.

I agree but I do not think the problem is in poetry being based in poetry, but rather that this is bad poetry built up out of bad poetry.

[Anonymous No.19381041]

>>19381008
>>19381018
I am going to consider everything you said about meaning and beauty as possible Gods of poetry. It is worth thinking about deeply, because there is a lot of truth in what you say, even though I don't agree with many of the arguments you made about pre-modernist verse.
I love Keats, and I absolutely agree with the pic I posted for this thread, but my interpretation of it is that for truth to be beauty it has to contain meaning, and it's up to the poet to make that meaning accessible and beautiful.

[Anonymous No.19381047]

>>19381037
>I agree but I do not think the problem is in poetry being based in poetry, but rather that this is bad poetry built up out of bad poetry.
Life has always been the source of art, it comes through the human to the human from something beyond the human which can only be experienced in the totality of life (including other art).
But when you start making art based on other art and continue down this path for too long, you're no different than Pound or Eliot with their endless academic references because people will need to have seen/experienced that other art yours is based on to understand the references and imagery.

[Anonymous No.19381055]

>>19353281
Sitting on the sofa
Your head in my lap
I'm running my fingers idly
Through your hair
Our eyes are on the television
Not really watching
An absent-minded moment
Precious and fleeting
One of many
Lost forever in time

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19381058]

>>19380998
I think if you want obscurity you ought do what Cicero recommends, study Thucydides and get his method but you need not go that far, the right level of obscurity is this, that the English be readable but produce uncommon statements which when mingled together are mighty enough to produce a new turn of phrase which can pass into the broader English language (as Coleridge, Alexander pope and Shakespeare did.) and that these should relate ideas and images in either sustained purity and clarity or in a delirious and strange-surprising way, so as to produce a conceit such as Donne’s speaking of the marriage of a man and a woman through a fly drinking the blood of them both.

I’ll even go as far as to give rap as examples, MF DOOM can make phrases much more memorable and useable and relate unconnected concepts better than they because he can still be understood, boosted by musicality. Even when it’s something as silly as “ Rap snitches, telling all their business
Sit in the court and be their own star witness”

Which you may mock, but it works and I’ve seen people use the exact wording. I understand the appeal to spiritualize and desire a language-philosophy, but if we forget that aesthetic beauty is a marriage of sensual and ideal, then we will move out of it being really art, and we see the result that has caused.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19381073]

>>19381041
I agree with Keats also but I disagree with you, because the Jewish mysticism and various Hindu and Christian mystics agree, the reasoning is the following to break it down.

God is Truth, Truth is One.
Truth is unity,
Knowledge is multiplicity,
Knowledge and truth are one,
The unity seen in the parts of knowledge is truth.
Beauty is harmony.
Harmony is when knowledge (data points, be they philosophical or simply the harmony of bird song and flowing stream and other such) is unified.
So Harmony is when partial knowledge is unified.
Ultimate beauty/harmony is identical to all knowledge, as all things are united.
Ultimate knowledge is identical to ultimate truth.

Thus beauty/harmony is the vision of knowledge which is the body of truth, truth is the spirit, knowledge is the soul, beauty is the body.

The only thing it needs to be beauty is Harmony. Whether that’s harmony of sensual forms with horrible and terrible things, or with itself, a harmony of conceptions, any harmony, when things harmonize that is beauty, the more harmonized the more beautiful. This is I believe the true root of wanting this universal language-poetry and philosophical poetry, because the ultimate and highest beauty would be a work which unifies/shows the harmony in all things at once.

That is my opinion of course, you’re free to disagree.

[Anonymous No.19381091]

Lars Porsena of Clusium, by the Nine Gods he swore
That the great house of Tarquin should suffer wrong no more.
By the Nine Gods he swore it, and named a trysting day,
And bade his messengers ride forth,
East and West and South and North,
To summon his array.
East and West and South and North the messengers ride fast,
And tower and town and cottage have heard the trumpet's blast.
Shame on the false Etruscan who lingers in his home,
When Porsena of Clusium is on the march for Rome!

The horsemen and the footmen are pouring in amain
From many a stately market-place, from many a fruitful plain;
From many a lonely hamlet which, hid by beech and pine
Like an eagle's nest hangs on the crest of purple Apennine;
From lordly Volaterrae, where scowls the far-famed hold
Piled by the hands of giants for god-like kings of old;
From sea-girt Populonia, whose sentinels descry
Sardinia's snowy mountain-tops fringing the southern sky;
From the proud mart of Pisae, queen of the western waves,
Where ride Massilia's triremes, heavy with fair-haired slaves;
From where sweet Clanis wanders through corn and vines and flowers;
From where Cortona lifts to heaven her diadem of towers.
Tall are the oaks whose acorns drop in dark Auser's rill;
Fat are the stags that champ the boughs of the Ciminian hill;
Beyond all streams Clitumnus is to the herdsman dear;
Best of all pools the fowler loves the great Volsinian mere.

But now no stroke of woodman is heard by Auser's rill;
No hunter tracks the stag's green path up the Ciminian hill;
Unwatched along Clitumnus grazes the milk-white steer;
Unharmed the water fowl may dip in the Volsinian mere.
The harvests of Arretium, this year, old men shall reap;
This year, young boys in Umbro shall plunge the struggling sheep;
And in the vats of Luna, this year, the must shall foam
Round the white feet of laughing girls whose sires have marched to Rome.

i just posted this to larp,but with that said what's the use of poetry or literature in general for that matter?

[Anonymous No.19381101]

>>19381073
My interpretation of beauty and truth is not based on a belief in God or on religious mysticism.
I do not think beauty and harmony are connected in the way you describe, my view of Being is different. You're arguing from a deeply personal space, I feel, and I am interested in what you say, it's just that my understanding of some of these core concepts is built on different presuppositions.

[Anonymous No.19381107]

>>19381091
>what's the use of poetry or literature in general for that matter?
You first, what do you think they do for people?

[Anonymous No.19381209]

>>19381107
>what do you think they do for people?
well as for things like prose ,say fiction,i would have to say its just a way of trying to explore and communicate our emotional side;something like exploring the psyche in an indirect and qualitative manner.As for poetry,well i just see it as a more of a condensed and cryptic way of doing the above.
consider this an ill-informed ,retarded or even normie tier opinion anon.

[Anonymous No.19381456]

>>19381209
It's not such a normie take, anon. Though if I were you, I'd ask myself the question if prose does what you described so well, what would being 'cryptic' help poetry with?

[Anonymous No.19381514]

>>19381456
>what would being 'cryptic' help poetry with?
the joy of deciphering the underlying meaning of condensed and compact sets of phrases similar to the joy of solving puzzles or playing chess.the 'cryptic' thing could also help in walking a tight rope or having double meanings more,especially when trying to communicate heretic ideas.

[Anonymous No.19381537]

>>19381514
That applies to works like Eliot's or Pound's, as Frater and I discussed up in the thread, but that would be a bad characteristic for all poetry to have because not all people find joy in deciphering. All people DO experience things, and I would say that poetry isn't actually cryptic, it's just that it offers the reader new things he hasn't seen, new ways of seeing things he has already seen and constructing images and narratives that can be found in life but people are not used to seeing/thinking about them.

[Anonymous No.19381575]

>>19381537
>new ways of seeing things he has already seen and constructing images and narratives that can be found in life but people are not used to seeing/thinking about them.
ah,art.
but then its still something similar to deciphering ,no?

[Anonymous No.19381622]

>>19381575
More like being 'shown', because if the poet did his job well, the imagery and ideas laid out on the page would seem to the reader almost as if they were their own.

[Anonymous No.19381737]

>>19381612
hmm,gud quote.first time coming across this person.

[Anonymous No.19381814]

>>19353281
I have never heard a motherfuckin' poem in my country since ages, I dunno whether ppl are retarded or I am the one desu ??
It isn't widely appreciated as in other countries which is weird af...

[Anonymous No.19381907]

>>19381814
what country is that

[Anonymous No.19382020]

>>19353444
i know its really edgy to say this but I love Bukowski

[Anonymous No.19382111]

IMPENITENTIA ULTIMA
For ROBERT HARBOROUGH SHERARD
Before my light goes out for ever if God should
give me a choice of graces,
I would not reck of length of days nor crave for
things to be;
But cry: “One day of the great lost days one face of
all the faces,
Grant me to see and touch once more and nothing
more to see.

“For, Lord I was free of all Thy flowers but I chose
the world's sad roses,
And that is why my feet are torn and mine eyes are
blind with sweat,
But at Thy terrible judgment-seat, when this my tired
life closes,
I am ready to reap whereof I sowed, and pay my
righteous debt.

“But once before the sand is run and the silver thread
is broken,
Give me a grace and cast aside the veil of dolorous
years,

Grant me one hour of all mine hours and let me see
for a token
Her pure and pitiful eyes shine out and bathe her
feet with tears.”

Her pitiful hands should calm and her hair stream
down and blind me,
Out of the sight of night and out of the reach of fear,
And her eyes should be my light whilst the sun went
out behind me,
And the viols in her voice be the last sound in mine
ear.

Before the ruining waters fall and my life be carried
under,
And Thine anger cleave me through as a child cuts
down a flower,
I will praise Thee, Lord, in Hell, while my limbs are
racked asunder,
For the last sad sight of her face and the little grace
of an hour.

[Anonymous No.19382271]

>>19382020
How is that an edgy opinion? He's my favorite poet, I've read practically all his stuff novels and all.

[Anonymous No.19382336]

>>19382271
You have shit taste. Bukowski ruined poetry

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19382340]

shadow, amber light.
heave of heavy cloudy breath,
sapphire moment.

[Anonymous No.19382352]

>>19382336
You're entitled to your opinion but if you honestly believe one person "ruined poetry" you're retarded. Why don't you write what you like and save it?

[Anonymous No.19382390]

>>19382352
He ruined poetry. He is the reason all those reddit poets are clogging up journals and why we have so many wannabe poets. He's quite literally Rupi Kaur if she was capable of great insights. As a fiction writer, I like bukowski. He's really funny and his prose is sharp and juicy, as he calls it. Really good novelist and his shorts are also top tier fiction but his poetry is terrible. There is nothing "poetic" about it. It's devoid of any merit and would be better if he just incorporated all of it into more short stories.

[Anonymous No.19382409]

>>19382340
Contrasts define all.
Shut windows in a dark room.
Open window now.

[Anonymous No.19382498]

>>19382390
The problem is that Bukowski's poetry is written in such a deceptively simple way. He didn't ruin poetry, he set it free, he made it accessible. Now everybody thinks they can be Bukowski. But the difference between his work and the work you're talking about is that he was actually saying something. I'm having a hard time getting my point across but I hope you'll get what I mean.

[Anonymous No.19382530]

Hiding, she paws
A brimming cliff ledge;
A swell of salt claws
Meteors of her own pledge.
Suns roost in skies;
Storms vein free.
Thirsting for waves her eyes,
Long blind, outstare the sea.

[Anonymous No.19383332]

>>19382498
Oh, so people needed
>"He made some mistakes
>but when He created you lying in bed
>He came all over His Blessed Universe."
to make poetry accessible. I guess we needed shit-tier porn, not art.

[Anonymous No.19384007]

Wrote two stanzas.


You're the hue-drunk
death-dye
of trampled flowers

The anvil-blunt
anger-zap
of pressed-on bruises

[Anonymous No.19384311]

i miss harold bloom

[Anonymous No.19384981]

>>19376138
>he writes poetry about beautiful people in his class, too
Perhaps this is why God hit me with the ugly stick, so I could write instead of enjoy.

[Anonymous No.19385023]

>>19381037
>You say this but I’ve seen so many lines from Plath that have absolutely no power in their lonesome without the assumption that we ought care about the authors life, an assumption no other art requires of us today and which poetry historically didn’t require of us. Example her lines “starless, fatherless.” Who could possibly see any actual imagery from that contrast or be moved?
I was moved

[Anonymous No.19385162]

>>19353281
Just wanted to say I recently started reading poetry and I think it's pretty neat
Do you anons have a recommendation of good poetry compilations?

[Anonymous No.19385387]

>>19385162
Imagist poetry published by penguin, if you can get it for under 5 dollars, get it. Otherwise no

[Anonymous No.19385653]

>>19385387
Thank you anon
I'll probably pirate it, heh

[Anonymous No.19385749]

I think that most of my writing ends up being some kind of attempt to share the psychopathic experience with humans, but I can never really tell if I'm doing it successfully.

[Anonymous No.19386041]

>>19385749
First four lines are absolute genius. I'd rework the rest.

[Anonymous No.19386316]

>>19365778
You'd be surprised, Wales is considered the land of poets

[Anonymous No.19386369]

>>19385162
Harold Bloom's Best Poems of the English Language is a good introductory collection and Norton's Anthology of Poetry is a very extensive collection.

[Anonymous No.19386452]

>>19386369

well ,are they beginner friendly?can esl chumps like me ever learn to appreciate poetry and prose?btw anon,is there any free of cost way of testing my english?

[Anonymous No.19386543]

Here's a poem about homelessness.

The home-full keep their circle back,
content to step outside it.
In micella they travel, wind jackets buffed
To gather human warmth.
Me, Me, I've lost mine -
i seem to disposses it.
I've lost mine - but well
they are eager enough to lend it.

[Anonymous No.19386710]

>>19386543
Are you homeless, anon?

[Anonymous No.19387045]

>>19386452
Yes, you can learn to appreciate poetry and prose. ESL is a meme, you can even write prose and poetry better than natives because that native/non-native divide is made up garbage. If you learn the language and practice it, you're gonna be fine.

[Anonymous No.19387049]

>>19386452
I'm not that anon, but there are many, many English tests online, just google "free English test". Why do you need it, though? If you pick up a book and start reading you can immediately tell what level you're on by which parts slow you down, etc.

[Anonymous No.19387050]

>>19385162
The Oxford Book of Verse series or Penguin's. No need to spend much money on them, they can all be found for a pittance.

[Anonymous No.19387097]

His bubbling blood red-gushing from his breast.
Three times Cairbar flung his spear;
Three times grasped his beard in his hand.
Often he stayed his hurried step,
And tossed on high his deadly arm.
The mighty chief was like a cloud of the desert,
Changing its form under stormy wind,
While the glens by the mountain are sad,
As by turns they dread the coming showers.

[Anonymous No.19387121]

>>19353309
>Collections
I gave my life for this
Sitting at dark walls
Spinning in emptiness
Waiting for the fall

I give my life for this
So in time you never know
The emptiness inside of your soul
Waiting to be known

Moving over darkness
And giving it a home
A place to bury my mind
And taking the challenge the daily ignition

Moving the motion
And burying the toll
On my broken soul

I gift to thee the enemy
The mind of the fall
So in time you can realign
And magnify the problems
That you know

Take what I've known
And build society
Reap what I've sown
And take the seeds and begin to grow

Take the trees and grow
Give them their home
Trade body for body
Give em our own
We all grow

We united once before
Divided that we now fall
We begin to build a home
Where we all are known

Gather our souls in time
Collectivize a device
Uniting our souls
In darkness we unite
In darkness we are binded to light

Just give us a chance to ignite
To expose another lie
That we are alone here
That we don't have hope here

Open the compartmentalized mind
Schizofy
The remnants of our mind

Breathe new life
Into my eyes
As we all begin to
Move in motion
Create from nothing, oceans

And sail the seas
Part the see of prophecy
And recollect an enemy
Deep inside of my soul

Tear apart the words we say
As we heard them one day
Past future the time of our lives
Is beginning to collide
Coalesce
And recollect our lives

[Anonymous No.19387465]

>>19387121
This has some potential, but I think some parts need to be revised or cut, the energy flow gets disrupted with things like
>Open the compartmentalized mind
>Schizofy
>The remnants of our mind

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19387479]

>>19386452
ESL is just a meme like the other anon said. There have been quite a few great ESL and FSL (French) writers of prose. Conrad is universally recognized as one of the GOATs. I am not a big fan of Nabokov but you cannot doubt that his composition demonstrates a mastery of English. Latin poetry however was written by LSLs for a long time. If you take the study of English poetry or some other language very seriously there's no reason why you couldn't have native competency or better.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19387484]

>>19385023
Plath is a great poetess. Not sure why this anon has such a big bone to pick with her. Her tragic life and the association of her life with her work is no different from say Lord Byron. There are plenty of other examples. Juxtaposition of fatherless with starless is actually great.

[Leavisite !dLbcGkpKrE No.19387548]

>>19381037
Have you actually read the Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock aloud? What is astonishing about the poem is how musical it is despite having the tone of bored, educated spoken speech. You have completely ignored my quotes from Leavis that compare Eliot's poetic effects with early modern English theatre.

Your association of Hopkins with the limpwristed decadent school is also quite curious. He was hardly a provocateur like Swinburne, Wilde, Beardsley, Huysmans, etc. His method of going back to pre-Miltonic style actually puts him much closer to Eliot and Pound, even if his verse is dissimilar to them. He just had a different canon to them. Eliot had the Elizabethan theatre, Pound took from Browning's monologues which ultimately also come from the English stage, and Hopkins from even more ancient sources, especially Old English. By fusing these ante Milton influences with a modern sensibility, they were able to create something altogether new.

[Anonymous No.19387577]

>>19387045
>>19387049
>>19387479
k frens,wish me luck

[Anonymous No.19387631]

>>19353452
Equipped with your post alone, I think one can prove beyond doubt that mass literacy was a mistake. Not only that but also justify the killing of billions for the sake of literal and literary healing.

[Anonymous No.19387661]

>>19387631
lmao, true

[Anonymous No.19387675]

>>19353321
hhahahaha kekasurus

[Anonymous No.19388196]

>>19387577
checked
and good luck, fren

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19388336]

>>19387484
Because I don’t need to read anything about Byron or sympathize with him to enjoy his Cain for example, Starless fatherless just seems bathetic to me and overly appealing to ideas, it produces no image and no beauty to me. Again you can read all of Byron and enjoy it without knowing about the man.

>>19387548
I have and it neither impresses me compared to the best of the romantics nor the average of Whitman, and implying that the decadents have nothing in them but provocation, Swinburne for example was integrating so much medieval material he was able to fool universities with his ballads when he felt like it. And for Hopkin’s canon, you’re forgetting the major relation of him with Walter pater and thus the influence of Flaubert, there is also the direct influence of Robert bridges, Hopkins poetry far more resembles mallarme, pater’s prose style, the highly artificial alliterative-rhyming style of Swinburne and so forth. We also see a direct parallel in Hopkin’s inscape conception with the aesthetic ideas of pater, so both on the theory of aesthetics and on the actual application there is extreme similarity and if I posted a fragment from Eliot and pound and put them against pater and Swinburne, I think we both know hopkins would resemble more the latter than the former. I think I’ll do so.

First from pater.

SHE is older than the rocks among which she sits;
Like the Vampire,
She has been dead many times,
And learned the secrets of the grave;
And has been a diver in deep seas,
And keeps their fallen day about her;
And trafficked for strange webs with Eastern merchants;
And, as Leda,
Was the mother of Helen of Troy,
And, as St Anne,
Was the mother of Mary;
And all this has been to her but as the sound of lyres and flutes,
And lives
Only in the delicacy
With which it has moulded the changing lineaments
And tinged the eyelids and the hands.

And this portion from Swinburne.

There was a graven image of Desire
Painted with red blood on a ground of gold
Passing between the young men and the old,
And by him Pain, whose body shone like fire,
And Pleasure with gaunt hands that grasped their hire.
Of his left wrist, with fingers clenched and cold,
The insatiable Satiety kept hold,
Walking with feet unshod that pashed the mire.
The senses and the sorrows and the sins,
And the strange loves that suck the breasts of Hate
Till lips and teeth bite in their sharp indenture,
Followed like beasts with flap of wings and fins.
Death stood aloof behind a gaping grate,
Upon whose lock was written Peradventure.

And this portion from Hopkins.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19388355]

>>19388336
Márgarét, áre you gríeving
Over Goldengrove unleaving?
Leáves, like the things of man, you
With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?
Áh! ás the heart grows older
It will come to such sights colder
By and by, nor spare a sigh
Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;
And yet you wíll weep and know why.
Now no matter, child, the name:
Sórrow’s spríngs áre the same.
Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed
What heart heard of, ghost guessed:
It is the blight man was born for,
It is Margaret you mourn for.

And this portion from Elliot

The readers of the Boston Evening Transcript
Sway in the wind like a field of ripe corn.

When evening quickens faintly in the street,
Wakening the appetites of life in some
And to others bringing the Boston Evening Transcript,
I mount the steps and ring the bell, turning
Wearily, as one would turn to nod good-bye to Rochefoucauld,
If the street were time and he at the end of the street,
And I say, "Cousin Harriet, here is the Boston Evening Transcript."

Or this portion from Elliot

Miss Nancy Ellicott
Strode across the hills and broke them,
Rode across the hills and broke them —
The barren New England hills —
Riding to hounds
Over the cow-pasture.

Miss Nancy Ellicott smoked
And danced all the modern dances;
And her aunts were not quite sure how they felt about it,
But they knew that it was modern.

Upon the glazen shelves kept watch
Matthew and Waldo, guardians of the faith,
The army of unalterable law.

Or this portion from Elliot

As she laughed I was aware of becoming involved in her laughter and being part of it, until her teeth were only accidental stars with a talent for squad-drill. I was drawn in by short gasps, inhaled at each momentary recovery, lost finally in the dark caverns of her throat, bruised by the ripple of unseen muscles. An elderly waiter with trembling hands was hurriedly spreading a pink and white checked cloth over the rusty green iron table, saying: “If the lady and gentleman wish to take their tea in the garden, if the lady and gentleman wish to take their tea in the garden ...” I decided that if the shaking of her breasts could be stopped, some of the fragments of the afternoon might be collected, and I concentrated my attention with careful subtlety to this end.
Or this portion from Pound

And before hell mouth; dry plain
and two mountains;
On the one mountain, a running form,
and another
In the turn of the hill; in hard steel
The road like a slow screw’s thread,
The angle almost imperceptible,
so that the circuit seemed hardly to rise;
And the running form, naked, Blake,
Shouting, whirling his arms, the swift limbs,
Howling against the evil,
his eyes rolling,
Whirling like flaming cart-wheels,
and his head held backward to gaze on the evil
As he ran from it,

admit aesthetics, conception and sound wise, Hopkins is closer to the first.

[Anonymous No.19388426]

>>19358837
I like it, nice use of consonance.

[Anonymous No.19388777]

>>19388336
>Swinburne
Frater, I was arguing with you earlier but the more you defend your position of Romantics>all, the less cogent your arguments seem. I am not seeing an unbiased take on poetry after the end of the 19th century on your side. All I'm seeing is some names and concepts like Hopkins' inscape thrown around with no real cohesion in what you're trying to say. At no point have you mentioned Eliot's soundscape which is as important if not more so than inscape (and instress), and is responsible for the sense of Beauty in all poetry.

[Anonymous No.19388963]

>>19386041
Any particular suggestions?

[Anonymous No.19389210]

>>19388336
I was completely unfamiliar with the poem quoted from Plath, but having read it now, it is certainly a good lament of loneliness. The "fatherless" image is meant to convey a sense of orphanhood, which embeds the lonely feeling further. Though she lost her father at a young age, that certainly doesn't make it merely sensational autobiography. Are you going to criticize Lord Byron for incorporating his experiences swashbuckling across Europe in Childe Harold's Pilgrimage?

I see no point of versifying Pater. But taking your quote as it is, there's plenty of Romanticism and dreamscaping in your versified Pater. We have iambic pentameters with Swinburne, but in his usual sexy, decadent themes, so very transgressive, like all of his other poems. He was just a coomer Tennyson.

Hopkins on the other hand has rhyming couplets with an irregular meter (sprung rhythm). He goes heavy on the alliteration to a degree no Victorian ever did except perhaps in humorous verse, except this is a work of high seriousness. It is a radical departure from Victorian style. The verse you quoted and such as the one I quote below were nothing like anything written yet in modern English, though there is a great similarity with it and Old English verse:

Is out with it! Oh,
We lash with the best or worst
Word last! How a lush-kept plush-capped sloe
Will, mouthed to flesh-burst,
Gush!–flush the man, the being with it, sour or sweet,
Brim, in a flash, full!–Hither then, last or first,
To hero of Calvary, Christ,’s feet–
Never ask if meaning it, wanting it, warned of it–men go.

This quote also corresponds quite well with your selection from Pound, which was not even the point of me including this quote. You'll definitely not find many similarities between Eliot and Hopkins considering they drew from different canons, but their entire approach to creation reflects modernist aesthetics. Not sure why you are so keen to claim Hopkins as a decadent and go contrary to the general consensus on him.

As for Mallarme, come off it. The only poet remotely similar to him in English is E. E. Cummings and that's only on a superficial basis.

[Anonymous No.19389565]

>>19353371
thanks for posting that