Materialism is too brutal of a blackpill for me, Jose Delgado is crushing to read

[Anonymous No.19299999]

I don't know if most proponents of materialism actually think its' logical implications through, they seem to just mindlessly live consooming, rather than facing the fundamental horror and crushing meaninglessness they just try to be as blissfully thoughtless as possible, or even take some sort of sick enjoyment in the meaninglessness that i cannot fathom the reason for

There's the growing suspicion in me that all philosophy asides from materialism is just cope and delusions with no rational basis to make life more tolerable, atleast the more i study mathematics and read up on physics the more it seems to be the case. Of course, i desperately don't want that to be the case, but i have yet to see anything very reassuring on that front

For one i am totally unable to derive satisfaction from pleasure when i think about the possibility of Psychological Hedonism being true, it's primordially disgusting on some indescribable level to be totally enslaved to this one blind brute sensation, the moment i am engaging in a pleasurable activity like eating and then i think about the possibility of all my actions being driven by pleasure, i take measures to avoid that pleasure out of sheer disgsut like covering my nose to weaken the taste of the food and retreat into laying in bed doing as little as possible all day until i again retreat into coping and denying that all my actions are done just for pleasure just to function again. But i don't know if that disgust is just a form of Psychological Hedonism itself, maybe i'm just engaging in another form of hedonism i'm not aware of by being ascetic, i don't know, maybe the Burning Monk was too, maybe neuroscience will find that to be the case

And full alteration and prediction of the brain, fucking horrifying shit, at that point your life is as worthless as an inanimate object, on every level possible, fuck i'll either give up completely on living or kill myself on the spot when that happens the only reason i'd even stay alive then is fear of death

Fuck man, i have to fall back into (probably) coping, well, even saying probably and not absolutely is coping, just to function again

[Anonymous No.19300041]

>>19299999
materialism is the biggest cope

[Anonymous No.19300081]

>>19300041
It literally cannot be cope, it is the pure opposite of cope, it's the most horrifying thought ever put to paper, just being in the mindset that it is correct drives me into a catatonic state sapped of any drive to do anything except do the absolute bare minimum work to survive and hope i relapse again into telling myself that it isn't through some form of (hopefully not cope) rationalization. This has happened multiple times and i still cannot adapt to it in the slightest whereas i have adapted to many other displeasing truths but this particular one is an insurmountable wall

I'm doubtful midwits actually have deliberated on it for any extended period of time or they would be thoroughly unable to formulate anything as ridiculous as "optimistic nihilism"

So i'm begging for any rational foundation that opposes it, it's seriously interfering with my life

[Anonymous No.19300120]

>>19300081
And no, it's not depression, i don't even have any symptoms or potential causes of depression outside of these overwhelming periods of existential horror, i'm fit and work out regularly, i get vitamin D, i eat very healthily, and outside these periods i'm productive and disciplined

[Anonymous No.19300173]

>>19299999
If you have ever even for a second believed in anything other than strict physicalism you are a retard and will never make it or thrive in our new world.

There is no scary "logical implication" at the end of physicalism.

Psychological hedonism is by no means a necessary implication of physicalism, even if I think it's true.

> And full alteration and prediction of the brain, fucking horrifying shit, at that point your life is as worthless as an inanimate object

Can an inanimate object experience? Ofcourse, so I don't know why you're so afraid of changing our perceptions.

Personally I believe we will run into some sort of hardline biological/evolutionary limitation that will make this impossible, but if I'm wrong, I still don't see why it's so scary.

For me at least, the only partial solution is morality/virtue. That acts as the baseline level of meaning, beyond that, it's up to you, chasing personal preferences and gratification, etc.

>>19300120
None of these things mean you don't have depression, thats a popsci understanding of depression, not saying you have it, but don't write it off.

[Anonymous No.19300202]

>>19299999
The biggest blackpill is that I will not be able to survive without wageslaving for some shit company and even if I had taken a better path for my instruction e.g. some hot STEM thing I would still have to give my life to a bugman company except for more money I don't need or want. It's impossible to work just barely enough to survive, you have to take the full package and live in an enslaved semi-poverty. All the crazy innawood plans are bullshit and you can't even pull this off in Europe, there are just too many expenses to live rurally on odd jobs. I'm going to kill myself. I don't want to do this gig economy thing and get squeezed just to be allowed to live in a concrete grave. I have no idea how so few people are killing themselves.

[Anonymous No.19300224]

>>19300173
>If you have ever even for a second believed in anything other than strict physicalism you are a retard and will never make it or thrive in our new world.
You are calling countless people definitely way smarter than you retards, i'm not saying they were necessarily right but you being so arrogant and quick to dismiss them is midwit shit

Also "our new world", who are you fucking Klaus Schwab?

>Can an inanimate object experience? Of course, so I don't know why you're so afraid of changing our perceptions.
Worthless under materialism

>For me at least, the only partial solution is morality/virtue. That acts as the baseline level of meaning, beyond that, it's up to you, chasing personal preferences and gratification, etc.
Worthless under materialism

>None of these things mean you don't have depression, thats a popsci understanding of depression, not saying you have it, but don't write it off.
But i even do enjoy things normally when i'm not pondering the idea there simply isn't anything to indicate depression there

[Anonymous No.19300272]

>>19300224
>You are calling countless people definitely way smarter than you retards,

Yes, and? If you believe in anything other than physicalism in the modern age you are a retard, full-stop. Historical figures get a pass because they were products of their environment. Today's products believe in physicalism.

>experience worthless under materialism

No?

>morality worthless under materialism
Uh no??

If you're just going to assert things without an argument then you're too doomerpilled for salvation and should probably just off yourself anyway.

[Anonymous No.19300273]

>>19300081
Read Jung

[Anonymous No.19300284]

>>19300202
Suicide rates are up compared to even 5 years ago. Also, an astonishing number of people (~4.5% per NIMH) think seriously about killing themselves every year.

I think about this every time I see Steven Pinker on TV telling me we live in the 'best of all possible worlds' or whatever he's selling.

[Anonymous No.19300291]

>>19300284
That's because we should be hunting and fishing all day every day instead of staring at screens moving from box to box.

[Anonymous No.19300298]

>>19300272
>Today's products believe in physicalism.
What great minds has this produced? Who are these titans of the modern era, produced by and espousing physicalism, and what are the fruits of their intellect?

[Anonymous No.19300314]

>>19300298
You can keep coping if you want to, not my problem.

[Anonymous No.19300322]

>>19300272
>Yes, and? If you believe in anything other than physicalism in the modern age you are a retard, full-stop. Historical figures get a pass because they were products of their environment. Today's products believe in physicalism.
So you're saying just because the ones on the right are more modern they're automatically right? Even tho most of the ones on the right aren't even scientists? Just pop-sci shills? What grand discovery in the past few decades has changed the paradigm so much?

Who are these physicalist geniuses of the modern era that are even remotely comparable to titans like the one on the left?

>>19300314
>no counterargument
Nice bad faith midwit

[Anonymous No.19300326]

>>19300314
I'm not the guy you were replying to in >>19300224 -- I'm a different anon. I'm still curious if you have an answer to my question though.

[Anonymous No.19300339]

>>19300173
Since you are obviously a genius, answer this: Where is consciousness? Carefully think about your answer.

[Anonymous No.19300345]

Actually OP while we're at it, could you give us your working definition of materialism? I started writing something up but realized we might not even be talking about the same thing here.

[Anonymous No.19300361]

>>19300284
I'm talking 30% of people not 4%, I know the mental health statistics, I am still baffled that a whole 90% at least of people are overally happy with being wagies. I can't imagine commuting in sone urban shithole, even worse if I have to take ugly public transport filled with niggers, to work in some shit company and feign interest in whatever faggot thing they wamt me to do and then commute back home and enjoy the company of cattle people with not a trace of soul or dignity and consumer goods to trigger my monkey neuron before I go to sleep. How in the fucking fuck are people ok with this life? It's impossible

[Anonymous No.19300373]

>>19300361
Soma and intense amounts of denial

[Anonymous No.19300375]

>>19300081
https://www.nature.com/articles/436150a

This is a great short story illustrating what you're saying. Only a few pages long.

[Anonymous No.19300389]

>>19300361
Everyone is on antidepressants and antipsychotics and adderall anon.

[Anonymous No.19300397]

>>19300361
I know what you meant. I think it can be hard for people who are exceptionally thoughtful/introverted to make it through life these days.

I remember reading a really interesting piece in an ethnography journal years ago about mid-African tribesman, and how depression and suicide were essentially non-existent to them. They didn't even have a word for depression, and suicidal ideation was so rare in their society that when the rare once-in-a-generation tribesman did express these ideas, he was declared to be possessed by demons, and tied to a tree until 'the demons left him.' Apparently this 'cure' had a 100% success rate.

[Anonymous No.19300398]

>>19300081
I'm in the same position as this anon.

Please point me in another direction. I'm reading Bernardo Kastrup's book Why Materialism is Baloney. What could I follow up with?

[Anonymous No.19300406]

>>19299999
Holy digits, cursed post

Spirituality is seeing the significance of the physical, material world and how it connects to the transcendant. It encourages you to think in context of the eternal, of the world your children will inherit

I don't know why firsties cling to an unnatural ideology that turns them psychotic and degenerate

Materialism is a denial of the transcendant and a focus on immediate. Of course it will drive you mad; it causes you to lose your scope of reality to your ego

See >>19300224 for an entry level pill

[Anonymous No.19300409]

>>19300398
Berkeley’s Discourse on Human Understanding, in order to fully dissuade you of the idea that you ever have any empirical grounds for positing the strange concept of ‘matter’

[Anonymous No.19300414]

>>19300375
this is a fun hypothetical and a neat little thought experiment. thanks for sharing anon.

[Anonymous No.19300417]

>>19300345
To put it as simply as possible, the total combination of the Reddit midwit mindset, but actually seriously pondering and psychologically assimilating the implications of it and not "just don't think about it bro" cope

[Anonymous No.19300423]

>>19300406
Can you recommend me some reading material, anon?

[Anonymous No.19300427]

>>19300417
It does seem ominous and kind of evil, right?

[Anonymous No.19300443]

>>19300417
I think I understand -- you're grappling with the horrifying philosophical implications of Rick and Morty being true? (I don't browse Reddit so this is my guess at their metaphysics)

[Anonymous No.19300470]

>>19300443
Don't make a joke of this, anon. Seriously consider the implications of materialist atheism..

[Anonymous No.19300476]

I have existential OCD and deal with similar episodes.

[Anonymous No.19300478]

>>19300470
I wasn't trying to make a joke, and I hope it didn't come across that way. Am I correct though? Can you accurately sum up the midwit redditor's metaphysics as 'Rick and Morty is right' ?

[Anonymous No.19300483]

>>19300224
Something can have value to me, without it having objective value.

[Anonymous No.19300495]

>>19300478
Yeah, I don't watch Rick and Morty but probably

[Anonymous No.19300504]

I haven't actually read it, but I put The Emperors New Mind by Roger Penrose on a shortlist as it seemed like something that would address this topic in some way and it seemed a step above reddit-tier pseud determinism schlock. Maybe give it a try, if you do let me know if it's shit so I don't have to waste time with it.

[Anonymous No.19300507]

>>19300443
OP here
Yeah, that's a very apt descriptor if memey, actually, it's basically Rick and Morty being the undeniably guide to reality, like actually living in the World of that show

>>19300470 isn't me

[Anonymous No.19300509]

>>19300202
for me it was this aswell, it doesn't matter how much you can find new nuances in how the machine works, you can't escape it

[Anonymous No.19300511]

>>19300495
In that case I think you're going to be very disappointed by the answers you find here. The Rick and Morty solution to an uncaring and brutally random universe is 'find+do the best drugs you can lmao.' The midwit redditor lacks the depth of mind required to truly suffer. They can feel pain, but they do not suffer. So toke up bro, I've got Taco Bell coming through and we've got 3 whole heckin starwars to watch on this most epic of evenings.

[Anonymous No.19300518]

>>19299999
I used to feel like you. I developed a psychological complex where I would roll around in bed clasping my head feeling threatened by the thought that it is just my brain producing the phenomenal world. I even read Thomas Metzinger and took lots of notes on him before Ligotti popularized his views. I majored in Neuroscience too before going back for a better degree.
It wasn't until I sacrificed rats in my neurobiology lab that my materialist worldview crashed. I could feel the soul of the rats crying in agony. The experience was as real as grabbing a cup to drink water from. I dropped my atheistic materialist and pseudo Buddhist bullshit and became Zoroastrian after reading the Gathas, and ofc I left the lab too.
On a humorous note, I've shot a nigger in self-defense and felt nothing unlike the experience with the rats. Would do again.

[Anonymous No.19300528]

>>19300518
You're making a joke, right?

[Anonymous No.19300536]

> they seem to just mindlessly live consooming
the largest explicit materialist movement in history also happens to be explicitly against mindless consumption and nihilism.

[Anonymous No.19300539]

>>19300528
You could dismiss it as a hallucination, but it most certainly was real. I could feel the soul of the rat, which haunts me in some sense. Unlike nignogs, they actually do possess souls. If I had been doing invasive experiments on black "people", I would have still remained a materialist in all likelihood.

[Anonymous No.19300540]

>>19300518
This unironically reads like a Terry Davis rant

[Anonymous No.19300549]

>>19299999
Checked and based

No one in human history has ever lived to fully accept materialism. No one has ever accepted the full implications of Darwinism. They would realize life is truly random, meaningless and apathetic. Every person must abide by some sort of ethical inheritance or ideal that guides them for life. Otherwise they would just kill themselves or become perpetually depressed at the absurdity of their existence. This is plainly stated by many atheists like Camus and John Gray who admit to coping by just adopting certain ideals.

[Anonymous No.19300555]

>>19300549
>This is plainly stated by many atheists like Camus and John Gray who admit to coping by just adopting certain ideals.
strong poast

[Anonymous No.19300556]

Test

[Anonymous No.19300559]

>>19299999
>it's primordially disgusting on some indescribable level
Why aren't you disgusted by this disgust, since it is rooted in the same thing as your animal pleasure?

[Anonymous No.19300562]

>>19300081

Why do you find it so horrifying?

[Anonymous No.19300563]

>>19300549
>No one has ever accepted the full implications of Darwinism. They would realize life is truly random, meaningless and apathetic.
Nietzsche came the closest

[Anonymous No.19300569]

>>19300423
Unironically religious texts. Don't take the stories literally; they may or may not have happened but that's besides the point; it's about understanding the symbolic meaning behind them.

Think about something as simple as "honor your father and mother." A statement like that is meant to help you open your heart to the wisdom of your ancestors. You descend from survivors; people who weren't lost to the horrors of the past. You survived the primordial soup, the oceans, the age of the dinosaurs where your siblings were devoured whole by monstrous beasts, and the extinction level events that followed them

You are composed of elements that survived all those things.

You can get all of that from a simple sentence. Once you understand meaning in that way it helps you analyze the world properly

The best life lessons are learned through experience. Spend timv in nature and think about how complex everything that surrounds you is, how complex you are, your life is. Whether or not God is a consciousness like a human spirit becomes less relavent when you reach the point at which you can take in the material from multiple angles. There's so much richness in the material that it's impossible to try to make it seem like a cheap existence without either denial of reality or a blindness to it

I don't know what philosophy books match my worldview; I got to where i am through deep thought, reflection, and implementing several different practices into my spirital belifs

The nihilism of this age comes from humanity's loss of reverence for things greater than it; the survivors of this era will look upon it with great sadness

[Anonymous No.19300575]

>>19300202
>I'm going to kill myself.

Then do it. The only people you will hurt are your immediate family. "Waterfalls of pity roar, your just another person crying"

[Anonymous No.19300587]

>>19300569
Blessed post, anon.

[Anonymous No.19300589]

>>19300081
I am a materialist and I still manage to get a deep profound meaningful enjoyment out of pleasure. I guess my brain is set up to experience that when my life is going well, sucks that you were dealt a shitty brain chemistry set up.

[Anonymous No.19300593]

>>19300511
That anon wasn't me bro

Also i'm not looking exclusively for answers from a Rick and Morty paradigm, i'm just saying i'm developing a creeping suspicion that that paradigm might be true

[Anonymous No.19300596]

>>19300081
Materialism has a huge problem though: you have no access to the noumenal world. I feel like most materialist philosophies pay some lip service to Kant's Copernican turn, but don't actually meaningfully engage with the fact that:

A. All reality is filtered through subjective experience. Your material world is just the experienced mental model. Your mind also has innate faculties that shape how it processed information and relates to the noumenal world. Many physics books will allude to this in an introduction and then pass over it.

B. The old problem of realism versus nominalism has not been resolved. What is math? Is it something invented or discovered? What makes it so certain? Why does it describe the material world so well, yet contain objects that don't exist in the material world (e.g. perfect circles). This was the question Wittgenstein tried to answer following Russel.

C. Our models have to posit an observer work. However, it's assumed that the Moon doesn't disappear when we stop looking at it.

Second, there is the issue that nothing can be included in these materialist models without being understood. They must have meaning, and not in the Hallmark "feelings" definition of the word, but in the sense that all reality must correspond to some form of semiotics. After all, the only reality we have solid evidence of isn't the noumenal one, it's our subjective one, and so the laws of semiotics become as central as those of physics. Indeed the one cannot be without the other.

[Anonymous No.19300603]

>>19299999
absolutely checked but you are all pressed about some shit you cannot know from within human rationality so just pick the equally as likely and much better feeling cope.

[Anonymous No.19300607]

>>19300603
This is the answer

/Thread

[Anonymous No.19300608]

>>19300559
...i guess you're right. That's a pretty good argument against it

[Anonymous No.19300611]

>>19300549
What are you talking about? Darwin literally uncovered that fact that, baked into the structure of reality are principles driving simplicity towards complexity. The mechanism the universe has to do this is horrifying, but the results are awe inspiring.

[Anonymous No.19300617]

>>19300575
I don't want to hurt anyone, well I'd actually nuke humanity out of existence but it's an all or nothing kind of deal. I just want to escape this shit life. I don't want to be "employed", I don't care about your fucking company and getting promoted I just want to work less than 20 hours a week possibly not on a computer, own a roof over my head, have something to eat and winters with no heating.

[Anonymous No.19300620]

>>19300608
I don't think you've taken the final step of materialism, which is that every thought, feeling, and philosophy you come up with is part of a material reality unfolding in a deterministic manner. This should put your mind at ease and relax you, if anything.

[Anonymous No.19300623]

>>19300611
bingo

[Anonymous No.19300626]

>>19299999
how do you respond to something as simple as the thing in itself?

[Anonymous No.19300630]

>>19300596
and it's abbreviated form:
>>19300603

[Anonymous No.19300634]

>>19300202
>I have no idea how so few people are killing themselves.
People keep themselves busy and tied up in lots of responsibilities so there's not much time to think this hard. It's the best approach to meaninglessness that doesn't involve killing yourself. I'm like you though and I'm slowly losing it.

[Anonymous No.19300636]

>>19300620
>unfolding in a deterministic manner.
quantum mechanics shows us that a certain degree of 'randomness' exists. determinism is anti-materialist. Materialism also does not preclude subjects or agency.

[Anonymous No.19300642]

>>19299999
Read Hegel. I was right with you until I made it there. Unfortunately a lot of background is required. I had a bunch of philosophy classes in college but what also helped me in my studies more recently:

A New History of Western Philosophy - Kenney
The Story of Philosophy - Durant
Bernstein Tapes - Google it for PhD program classes that were taped on Kant and the Phenomenology of Spirit
The Stanford Plato Encyclopedia - use this quite a bit for intros and reminders
The Signature in all Things - Boehme, hard but very important for ontology

Then some classes from the Teaching Company I found helpful (lectures can be purchased through Audible cheaply).

Mind Body Philosophy
Modern Philosophy: Decartes to Derrida
Redefining Reality
Eastern Philosophy (forget the name, wasn't quite as good)

For Hegel, get the Phenomenology of Spirit, which was written as an introduction to his system, but also get Hegel's Ladder by Hackett. I have found it invaluable.


These didn't so much give me a clear ontology to supplant materialism, as show me that materialism can't be all there is to ontology.

[Anonymous No.19300646]

>>19300634
yeah but keeping yourself busy doing nightmarish suicide inducing things doesn't look like much of a strategy. people actually like living like this

[Anonymous No.19300648]

>>19300636
>quantum mechanics shows us that a certain degree of 'randomness' exists.
I disagree. We simply do not have a sophisticated enough model to account for the "randomness"

[Anonymous No.19300671]

>>19300636
Physics can also say nothing about why the fundemental forces are what they are. We know how the strong and weak nuclear forced work, but not why they have the strengths they have. Any shift in any of those constants and intelligent life, even planets, become impossible. There are seemingly infinite ways our universe could have been created, but it just happened to form following constants that allow for observers. That's spooky.

And while many forms of non-material thought beggar credulity, so does the idea that a massive amount of matter began expanding "just so" that Shakespeare's Hamlet would get written 14 billion years later.

[Anonymous No.19300679]

>>19299999
>There's the growing suspicion in me that all philosophy asides from materialism is just cope and delusions with no rational basis
As far as rationality goes, have you noticed that this whole thing has no context? Like why there's any life at all, why there's a universe. The mind reels. If you believe there was fundamentally no meaning I can see why it would make you depressed, but I also don't see why there's any reason to believe that absence of a purely rational meaning must lead to a conclusion that there's no meaning. Why doesn't irrational meaning count when the very fact of existence is apparently irrational in the first place?
To me it makes a lot more sense that if consciousness exists, which it apparently does, that it would go on existing in some way and for some purpose. A purpose other than what you call psychological hedonism, because we know in practice that overindulgence in pleasure actually causes subjective suffering.

[Anonymous No.19300681]

>>19300646
>people actually like living like this
Unless they're fronting, like almost everyone does in some way. You can't get a straight answer from parents as to why they had kids because they're too proud to admit it was mainly due to momentary utopic hope from hormonal stupor. But also maybe some people are wired to be happy doing dumb shit.

[Anonymous No.19300695]

>>19300648
I don't know if that is true and neither do you unless youre a top researcher in quantum mechanics, but regardless the inability to account for randomness in a model does not disprove the existence of randomness in reality.

[Anonymous No.19300721]

>>19300397
Imagine a world where anybody who read Schopenhauer or Celine were tied to a tree until they agreed that life was worth living.

[Anonymous No.19300751]

>>19300721
>And that tree's name?
>4chan.org

[Anonymous No.19300753]

>>19300081
I fully sympathise with your position and I too go through cycles of ‘coping’ and existential paralysis like you. It sometimes feels like the only way to feel better about it is to stop thinking, which goes against everything that my world view is constructed around. I’m currently in a semi-content coping state and one thing that has helped me recently is unironically Ecclesiastes: “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” Something else that helps me is from the divine comedy, at the very beginning of Dante’s journey from existential doubt to salvation he requires courage. Courage is the first step. I am not religious in any way btw.

[Anonymous No.19300761]

>>19300681
people are fucking dumb, they're not fronting just fake and slimy

[Anonymous No.19300804]

>>19300695
I am a top researcher in quantum mechanics, and since we are allowing assertions as long as they can't be disproven, I am saying there is no randomness

[Anonymous No.19300836]

>>19300563
The closest, yes. Then he couldn’t escape the abyss and went insane. He still failed.

[Anonymous No.19300847]

>>19300836
His health failed him and caused the collapse at the end of his life. I wouldn't say he failed.

[Anonymous No.19300849]

>>19300836
>Then he couldn’t escape the abyss and went insane.
Maybe his problem was he didn't have a cool cat.

[Anonymous No.19300879]

>>19300761
I thought that's what fronting means. Anyway I agree.

[Anonymous No.19300914]

>>19300483
Don't worry, you'll stop valuing it eventually

[Anonymous No.19301003]

>>19299999
Everything is a cope and delusion, including materialism.

[Anonymous No.19301056]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19301073]

>>19299999

Cioran time

[Anonymous No.19301087]

>>19300804
what the fuck are you talking about jesse

[Anonymous No.19301089]

>>19299999
Skip all reading of Rick & Morty tier atheists and reading 99.9% of religious/spiritual doctrine. Start by reading Nagarjuna and understanding Madhyamaka. Then realize materialism itself is a metaphysics that should be discarded just like Platonism. You must learn to contend with the challenge toward conceptions of reality put forth by Nagarjuna. Materialism is itself yet another dogma to be deconstructed.

[Anonymous No.19301117]

>>19299999
Oh shut the fuck up. God I hate philosophy.

Just get on with your fucking life.

[Anonymous No.19301130]

>>19301073
Was Cioran a materialist?

[Anonymous No.19301144]

>>19301089
>You must learn to contend with the challenge toward conceptions of reality put forth by Nagarjuna. Materialism is itself yet another dogma to be deconstructed.
Do you like Pyrrho and Sextus Empiricus Nagarjuna-anon?

[Anonymous No.19301184]

>>19301130
>Was Cioran a materialist?
He is a monster

[Anonymous No.19301194]

>>19300273
/thread

[Anonymous No.19301201]

>>19301194
Where do I start with Jung?

[Anonymous No.19301209]

>>19300549
>No one has ever accepted the full implications of Darwinism. They would realize life is truly random, meaningless and apathetic. Every person must abide by some sort of ethical inheritance or ideal that guides them for life.

I have taken it to the logical conclusion. I am "mentally ill" (prescribed anti-psychotics that I refuse to take) but also a functioning member of society. I truly only live for hedonic reasons. But (you always forget this) love is hedonistic. I love my friends and family. I continue living, happy and without meaning, for the joy of being around my loved ones.

[Anonymous No.19301210]

>>19301201
Start by skipping him, he is awful

[Anonymous No.19301216]

>>19301144
I haven't engaged with Pyrrho but I hold skepticism in high regard and often hold nominalist and pragmatist views. I believe there is inherent value in existence that is beyond the conceptual dualising mind. The emotional and conceptual mind is a mechanical object like the rest of the universe, but the universe as it is isn't a nihilistic void but is better compared to the idea of "primordial purity".

[Anonymous No.19301277]

>>19300518
lots to unpack here

[Anonymous No.19301299]

>>19299999
Even if materialism is true, that doesn't mean consciousness is an emergent property. Consciousness might be a common state of all matter, and for ethical reasons you should consider that the default. The brain as a cage which separates the individual from Brahman/oceanic consciousness in a web of selfishness. You don't know.

[Anonymous No.19301306]

>>19300202
Literally just go insane and get SSDI. Turn you get $1,200/month to live on, which is actually easy to do if your job is to do so

[Anonymous No.19301323]

>>19301299
This

[Anonymous No.19301332]

>>19299999
>There's the growing suspicion in me that all philosophy asides from materialism is just cope and delusions with no rational basis to make life more tolerable

This is my suspicion too, especially after working with stroke victims and seeing personalities fragment after physical debilitation. Watching family members interpret random arm waves and grunts as love and recognition is some horrifying stuff. I feel like on some level this is essentially what everyone's doing as a massive death cope.

[Anonymous No.19301366]

>>19301332
That's incredibly bleak

[Anonymous No.19301373]

>>19301332
Jesus lol

[Anonymous No.19301417]

>>19300611
>Darwin literally uncovered that fact that, baked into the structure of reality are principles driving simplicity towards complexity. The mechanism the universe has to do this is horrifying, but the results are awe inspiring
Can someone hit me with some recs on this? Anyone but Nick Land though please

[Anonymous No.19301426]

>>19300081
>I'm doubtful midwits actually have deliberated on it
You don't see people like Carl Cox, Richard Stallman, John McAfee, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Alexander the Great, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin and Teddy Roosevelt finding themselves in analysis paralysis on philosophical topics. If it's midwits that only can't learn/understand/don't care, then why didn't all these great entrepreneurial men?

[Anonymous No.19301432]

>>19301417
The Selfish Gene

[Anonymous No.19301437]

>>19300041
This, it's satanic cope

[Anonymous No.19301444]

Are materialists just bugmen?

[Anonymous No.19301445]

>>19301417
It's not true though, don't worry about it you'll be wasting your time on a false hypothetical.

[Anonymous No.19301474]

>>19300298
Claude Shannon, the father of information science and the reason we have the Internet

[Anonymous No.19301481]

>>19300679
>Like why there's any life at all,

It just happened. Why do you need a reason? Are you 5?

[Anonymous No.19301484]

>>19300202
At what point in human history was this ever different? You have to work to sustain yourself.

[Anonymous No.19301487]

>>19299999
Tell me more about this Jose fella

[Anonymous No.19301488]

>>19300648
This is true

[Anonymous No.19301490]

>>19301481
>It just happened
Classic.

[Anonymous No.19301498]

>>19300646
LOL nightmarish? What is nightmarish to you? Having to work for 40 hours a week?

[Anonymous No.19301512]

>>19301481
Kek

[Anonymous No.19301513]

>>19300634

You have to learn to appreciate little things, like enjoying sunshine on your face, or how dewy grass feels in your toes or how a baby smiles. It's the little things. Enjoy your freedom and youth. It's cliche but talk to some old people. It will be gone in a blink.

[Anonymous No.19301520]

>>19301513
Live laugh love

/Thread

[Anonymous No.19301525]

>>19300617
>I just want to escape this shit life.

What is so shit about your life?

[Anonymous No.19301540]

>>19301520
It's true though. People that dwell to much on the "meaningless of everything" enjoy dwelling on that. People enjoy being depressed.

[Anonymous No.19301549]

>>19301484
We work less than ever and live longer than ever. It's fucking amazing.

[Anonymous No.19301555]

>>19301540
Yes, I agree with you

[Anonymous No.19301559]

>>19301549
Yeah the decadence of my life sometimes astounds me.

[Anonymous No.19301623]

What scares me is that in a Godless/materialist/physicalist universe there seem to be no limits on the potential suffering a concious being could endure.

Say they create a mahine that can think and feel. They can make it feel whatever they want it to feel. Make it feel like a human being burnt alive, or being crushed to death, or drowning, or all three at the same time. But why stop there? This non-human thinking machine could have limitations for sensation beyond that of a human. They could make it suffer 100 times more, 1000 times more. Why not 100000000000000000000 times more than someone being burnt at the stake? Run this pain program on the thinking computer, then hook the computer up to a self sustaining fusion reactor, and send it off into space towards nothing.

Is there any specultive fiction that touches on this topic?

[Anonymous No.19301629]

>>19299999
You should trust that disgust you feel towards the modern way of life and thought. You are halfway into genuine religious belief. As a practicing religious person, I feel nothing of the existential pain people talk about in this thread. As one anon above said, you should engage with religious texts. It might also be helpful to engage with those authors who rationally break away from materialism to spirituality in the modern world. By this I mean people like Schopenhauer, Jung, Eliade, Henry Corbin, etc.

[Anonymous No.19301631]

>>19301623
Jesus, this is nightmarish.

[Anonymous No.19301634]

>>19301332

[Anonymous No.19301636]

>>19301629
What religious texts specifically?

[Anonymous No.19301639]

>>19301623
Hot. Imagine putting a cute boy/girl’s consciousness into such a machine and making him/her endure 1,000,000 years of unbearable full body tickling

[Anonymous No.19301640]

>>19301540
Just because the little things don't make some people feel warm and fuzzy on the inside doesn't mean they enjoy being depressed.

[Anonymous No.19301641]

>>19301623
I think Jane Austen used to write about this.

[Anonymous No.19301655]

>>19301636
The Bible, which is the religious text of the one true religion. Then read the rest, but only to appreciate when they agree with Christianity.

[Anonymous No.19301661]

>>19301623
Pic related and ‘I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream’

[Anonymous No.19301672]

>>19301636
I'm the anon who wrote the post. You should read all of them. Upanishads, Bible, Qur'an, etc. Hopefully you would realize they all stem from the same source although one of them is better and purest among them.

[Anonymous No.19301694]

>>19301623
"there are no absolutes in human misery and things can always get worse" - Cormac McCarthy

[Anonymous No.19301698]

>>19301481
Boring response but I'll take what I can get. It's not that I need it a reason, which I'm sure you understood anyways.
When I contemplate what's beyond the universe - I don't know a better way to put it than the "context" of everything - my mind hits up against a frightening and impenetrable mystery. It brings up all kinds of interesting questions about the nature of life and reality. So I think my point was and is that the fact that I'm not able to understand doesn't lead me to conclude that there is no meaning, and I don't really get why it would lead someone else to believe that either.

[Anonymous No.19301702]

>>19301426
>people like Carl Cox, Richard Stallman, John McAfee, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Alexander the Great, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin and Teddy Roosevelt

[Anonymous No.19301713]

>>19301623
Black Mirror episode ‘White Christmas’

[Anonymous No.19301723]

>>19301694
It's kind of beautiful how horrible it is possible to make a human feel. I can barely go on living and do live in a materialist mental hell, but I've barely scratched the surface of what is possible. I've come close to killing myself, but imagine you physically couldn't even do that. I wonder how insane one person could become under extreme conditions where death is impossible. For this reason I think immortality is the worst possible curse

[Anonymous No.19301736]

>>19301629
>>19301641
>>19301655
>>19301672
>>19301702
>all of this evangelising
Here’s an easy cure. God (a imagined entity) and speaking of him releases chemicals for serotonin. Remove the subject (your representation of a world better than this) and get used to living intensely in one world with one brain and material access only

Even if god is real you’re only experiencing references to him and talking to other humans, plus the release of relaxation and ‘strokes’ (psychology theory) when you feel relaxed.

No wonder so many here scored as INFP on the mbti.

[Anonymous No.19301754]

>>19301713
Black Mirror actually touches on this theme pretty often. I can think of three other episodes from the ones I've seen: The one where they're trapped in a video game; another video game one where a guy beta tests experimental VR horror game and gets trapped; and the one where the woman's consciousness is trapped in a stuffed animal after her death and the guy neglects her, and then years later their child takes revenge on him and puts him inside (I think I have the genders right on that one).

[Anonymous No.19301764]

>>19301754
‘White Christmas’ episode has another plot where he makes her suffer for the space of 200 years

[Anonymous No.19301887]

Thread theme:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kMPTDOXxttg

[Anonymous No.19301943]

>>19301089
>metaphysics
I remember some Muslim was telling me science doesn't explain metaphysics, thus it is unreliable, and then linked to some Muslim preacher in London "debating" an atheist about metaphysics. People were agreeing with him (fellow Muslims) as though metaphysics was some kind of actual, measurable scientific theorem.

[Anonymous No.19301967]

>>19301702
You've just posted some dudes opinion as a reply. Where is your opinion?

[Anonymous No.19301972]

>>19301698
>I don't really get why it would lead someone else to believe that either.

From a material point of view, it's a chain reaction. Why does a flower grow and bloom? Its a chain of chemical reactions all continuing from the big bang. There is no meaning behind it other than the reaction. I can't see it any other way. I saw video game/art piece at the MOMA that made me think of reality as an open world sand box game that plays itself.

https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/3656

For no other reason than it just does.

[Anonymous No.19301982]

>>19300518
humans are evil and can be killed without remorse.

[Anonymous No.19301987]

>>19301623
>there seem to be no limits on the potential suffering a conscious being could endure.

What are the worst things you can imagine, and of course there is suffering a being couldn't endure, you die as result.

You really think physical pain is the worst you can suffer? LOL

What about a mother that locks her teenage daughter out of the house at night because she missed curfew to teach her a lesson. While the daughter is waiting outside a guy comes up in a van kidnaps her takes her to his house and rapes her and chops her up and puts her in concrete. Now the mother has to live with the guilt every day hearing laughter and seeing other people happy. Physical pain is easy.

[Anonymous No.19301991]

>>19300518
LOL this is funny, but seems like you just went crazy.

[Anonymous No.19301994]

>>19301713
the best episode of the series. It sucks now.

[Anonymous No.19302158]

>>19300518
Based Schizo

[Anonymous No.19302170]

>>19301987
Watching cartel videos made me realise there’s no god

[Anonymous No.19302175]

>>19301306
I'm not American, you get nothing here
>>19301498
>>19301484
Yes I don't want to work 40 hours + commuting to make money for some stupid fucking company that is making the world worse every day. It's not work I am against, I just hate modern jobs. I hate cities, I hate asphalt I hate concrete I hate cars I hate buses and trains and people in buses and trains. I hate the company that produces, idk, steel parts for kitchen counters, very interesting that you modified the alloy so now you can save 0.1% of production costs, I don't fucking care I hope you go bankrupt. I cannot feel "inspired" by your banking company, if I could do artisan work, I would be happy but no, I have to work this soulless shit. I actually love working, just not like this.

[Anonymous No.19302178]

>>19299999
has no one noticed these are quints? checked

[Anonymous No.19302198]

>>19301417
Darwin

[Anonymous No.19302211]

>>19300414
>>19300375
It wouldn't even prove the universe is deterministic if it's just reading backwards in time
doesn't really kill free will

[Anonymous No.19302258]

There's a fundamental human need that I think often gets overlooked, yet I find it's the cause of so much of our behaviour.
It's what the feeling of being high status, being validated, being virtuous, having high-self esteem, and being admired/influential all have in common. It's fulfilling the preferences of the value system you've internalised in a way that makes you feel significant.

OP, like many ascetics, has internalised some values that associate 'pleasure' with something low status or shameful/disgusting. While engaging in simple pleasures will satisfy some of his needs, the associated shame erodes his self-esteem, and deprives him of the feeling of moral superiority and self-control that self-deprivation would evoke in him.
The people usually labelled as 'hedonists' do not share these associations, and will in fact see indulging in pleasure as a sign that they are 'successful' at life.
For something to be 'meaningful' in a non-semantic way usually means it is seen as something that fulfils this need for 'significance' or esteem. Enriching the soul is really enriching the ego in some indirect way and sublime way.

[Anonymous No.19302284]

>>19301736
This psychologistic view of God—that divinity was invented to meet some transhistoric extracultural neurophysiological instinct/need—is also a myth anon. A much worse one than even the Abrahamic one, I might add.

[Anonymous No.19302286]

All of these idealist boys are fucking retarded who speak of le transcendental consciousness with so much romanticism and don't apply same categories of excruciating suffering on it like they do on materialism. Let's say idealism is true then I would say it's a fucking fate more horrible than materialism because it's not just a worldly nightmare or drama which could end or be extinguished but a transcendental nightmare and we're all "part" of that nightmare and we can't escape from it.

[Anonymous No.19302287]

>>19302258
>It's fulfilling the preferences of the value system you've internalised
The reason why many people go insane is that they are raised on a value system that you are supposed to drop after your teens and replace with the exact opposite thereof. If today you renounce an opportunity for profit over your principles you're not a "good man", you're a retard. But people still pretend that e.g. honesty is a valuable trait because lying about having values shows that you know how to navigate society: nobody actually believes you value honesty, and if you actually live by your principles they laugh and think you're a retard for actually doing what you claim.

[Anonymous No.19302355]

>>19302286
I think that’s reductionist. Idealism means ‘idea’, if anything it’s more pessimistic. It’s saying that our mind takes in reality and makes up blocks and objective truths when the world is a Picasso painting

[Anonymous No.19302570]

>Jose Delgado
This nigga was doing remote mind control on monkeys with microwaves in the 80s, imagine what they can do now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qUEwP4I2mw

[Anonymous No.19302585]

>>19300518
Its true, the only thing that can convince a materialist existentialist of meaning and the divine is some kind experiential psychic break.

I think its the unconscious mind essentially giving you a religious experience to stop the cringe nihilistic thoughts that damage you.

[Anonymous No.19302589]

You must come to terms with your creatureliness as a human being.

[Anonymous No.19302590]

>>19300549
What if the adaptions of evolution are driven by an external intelligence?
Either the consciousness of the creature or the cosmos willing it to develop webbed toes if you live in the swamp.

[Anonymous No.19302616]

>>19302170
Evil is a necessary property of being

[Anonymous No.19302685]

>>19302616
Do you think it sounds profound when you say vague stupid shit like this?

[Anonymous No.19302704]

>>19302616
I'm pretty sure the universe existed for billions of years without any life whatsoever, thus "being" without any form of evil you absolute pseud

[Anonymous No.19302736]

>>19302616
Kek. If it were necessary it would exist in the first place. All I saw was 2 people dying on my screen. And because I wasn’t raised to believe in skydaddy I’ve loved the same life as you without the cope.

That’s the argument no spiritualist can defend. Isolate a human in the wilderness for a good 80 years and they won’t have a single experience with your bible or your quaran. I think you guys just struggle to male friends Who aren’t connected by a cope so you get together and purge your unhappiness from the week.

[Anonymous No.19303086]

>>19302736
There's something seriously wrong with your rational facutlies if you "love" life despite everything you know, antinatalism is the only logical conclusion. Every non-materialist "refutation" of antinatalism is cope

Pessimism is a perennial truth

[Anonymous No.19303101]

>>19302736
Look up shamanism. Even isolated tribes have a person who receives divine revelation for them.

[Anonymous No.19303226]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19303593]

>>19302616
midwit if not bait

[Anonymous No.19303600]

>>19301967
>Where is your opinion?
I don't have opinions that I care to express. Can't you read?

[Anonymous No.19303649]

>>19302704
Did it exist if no one was there to confirm it?

[Anonymous No.19303658]

>>19302175
Grow up.

[Anonymous No.19303664]

>>19302175
Do a naked and afraid survivalist challenge and see if you can make it then? You’ll be back to working 40 hours a week in no time.

[Anonymous No.19303668]

>>19302211
There is no free will

[Anonymous No.19303670]

>>19302258
>There's a fundamental human need that I think often gets overlooked, yet I find it's the cause of so much of our behaviour.
>It's what the feeling of being high status, being validated, being virtuous, having high-self esteem, and being admired/influential all have in common. It's fulfilling the preferences of the value system you've internalised in a way that makes you feel significant.


True

[Anonymous No.19303677]

>>19301332
>massive death cope
I don't think it's a death cope. It's a meaning cope. Most people, myself included, are completely fine with oblivion. What we are not ok with is meaninglessness, or living without a defined purpose. For the families of those victims, I suspect they are interpreting those signals that way not so much because the death/decline of a loved one in unbearable, but because their continued existence in their current state has to be given some meaning. If they are just a vegetable, living on for no purpose, it is far more horrifying to the family than them simply being dead. So they cope and pretend that the loved one is still extracting some meaning from their existence.

I could be wrong. Maybe for others existential dread primarily comes from the certainty of death. For myself, death has never been the issue. It is living without a purpose, or being unable to formulate a purpose that I can authentically buy into without a lot of cognitive dissonance. I'm far too self aware to pull it off. Even though I've got to the point where I'm certain I won't kill myself, it has almost gotten worse, paradoxically. I feel almost as trapped as those stroke victims. Even though I have an outwardly "successful" life (family, home, career, friends, hobbies, etc) I'm constantly aware of the fact that I haven't been able to pull myself up by my existential bootstraps.

[Anonymous No.19303792]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19303803]

>>19303677
>What we are not ok with is meaninglessness, or living without a defined purpose.

Lol why?

[Anonymous No.19303815]

>>19303677
>If they are just a vegetable

This is such an idiotic phrase, it’s not
your but whenever I hear some one say it I cringe, it’s it’s like someone trying to sound flippant about a tragedy, to sound cool but doesn’t actually realize what vegetative in the context means.

[Anonymous No.19303816]

>>19303803
Do you really have to ask this? Ngmi

[Anonymous No.19303842]

>>19303677
The fear of meaninglessness is a death cope.

[Anonymous No.19303855]

>>19303842
This doesn't make sense

[Anonymous No.19303884]

>>19303803
It's impossible to answer that question, it's too axiomatic

The search for meaning/purpose is the axiom behind every single other want/desire in my life, even the desire to stay alive, which stems from fear of death, which stems from fear of losing my consciousness, consciousness which i only value due to the search for meaning

I used to think i was more afraid of death than meaninglessness, but then i actually got into a near-death situation with a man was pointing a gun at my head, and i was shockingly calm and collected with the fact that i might die then and there, it still surprises me to this day honestly. And then some time after that day i started painfully reflecting on the rationality or absence thereof of human behavior and whether there is any purpose to it or whether we are all deluded, which then made me realize it's actually meaninglessness that scares the shit out of me more than my mortality

[Anonymous No.19303904]

>>19303816
Yes, I’ve always thought life has no inherent meaning and never thought it was a big deal. So when people freak out about it I want to know why?

[Anonymous No.19303907]

>>19303884
How are you holding up now?

[Anonymous No.19303916]

>>19303884
So on your death bed you want to be ar
To say “ah that was my purpose” or do you want to know what your purpose is right now and be comfortable knowing your place in things?

[Anonymous No.19303950]

>>19303916
I would like to know my purpose now

[Anonymous No.19303960]

>>19303815
sorry for triggering you bro. I wasn't trying to be flippant, it's just commonly used to describe a person in a situation where they are technically alive, but mentally not there anymore. which is what the person I was replying to seemed to be describing. which is a fate far worse than death imo.

[Anonymous No.19303989]

>>19303904
>who cares just do whatever lol
you're either being edgy or haven't actually thought about the implications. I'm not "freaking out" about it. I function perfectly fine and from the outside appear to be living a very successful and fulfilling life. But if it doesn't gnaw away at you from the inside, you are either deluding yourself, ignoring it, or coping. Or some combination of those things. I'm in my mid thirties now and am more sure of this than ever.

[Anonymous No.19304005]

>>19303907
I'm doing fine, i think alot of what helped me deal with that situation was knowing that i live in a very violent country, where you're statistically likely to be held at gunpoint by a criminal atleast once in your life. If it was a situation i could have fought my way out of, there'd probably still been some panic, but i guess when it's a situation of powerlessness you tend to just kind of internally say "well... fuck, that sucks" and hope you get out alive

>>19303916
I want reassurance that life isn't just the process of a blind pursuit of and avoidance of pleasure and pain respectively, in which we're devoid of the ability to find anything greater than us and our sense pleasures and material things to serve as a purpose for our toils; That is, without having to retreat into deliberate ignorance like the protagonist of an Lovecraft novel. In whatever form that might come

[Anonymous No.19304036]

>>19303989
Same. Getting an easy, high-paying job is really the key. By easy I mean both mentally and physically easy, so you have the energy to even enjoy hedonic activities outside of work. My current job is a mentally taxing STEM position that leaves me mentally fried and numb after hours

[Anonymous No.19304056]

>>19303907
I'm doing fine, i think alot of what helped me deal with that situation was knowing that i live in a very violent country, where you're statistically likely to be held at gunpoint by a criminal atleast once in your life. If it was a situation i could have fought my way out of, there'd probably still been some panic, but i guess when it's a situation of powerlessness you tend to just kind of internally say "well... fuck, that sucks" and hope you get out alive

>>19303916
I want reassurance that life isn't just the process of a blind pursuit of and avoidance of pleasure and pain respectively, in which we're devoid of the ability to find anything greater than us and our sense pleasures and material things to serve as a purpose for our toils; That is, without having to retreat into deliberate ignorance like the protagonist of a Lovecraft novel. In whatever form that might come

This is because, to try to put it as close to comprehensible as i can: As conscious beings with a rich inner world and rational faculties we are existentially and qualitatively "lonely" in only being able to find the closest thing to a purpose to our existence in the consumption of resources and the blind animal pleasure from that consumption, pleasure which even the most primitive lifeforms feel, and which is capable of totally consuming the rest of our inner world in extreme amounts bringing us to the same level of thought as a maggot or some other extremely simple lifeform ala pic related

I hope that made it comprehensible enough, i might just be sounding like a schizobabbler for all i know

[Anonymous No.19304109]

[Anonymous No.19304114]

>>19299999
Based digits, based thread

[Anonymous No.19304189]

[Anonymous No.19304222]

>>19300224
> i'm not depressed because i like some activities
> i'm not racist, i have some black friends

[Anonymous No.19304263]

>>19304222
You can't know the truth and be happy

Choose one

[Anonymous No.19304367]

>>19301623
>>19301661
Why are people scared of machines doing this, when you guys are the ones who imagined it and humans are the ones who make machines?

[Anonymous No.19304406]

>>19301623
hey don't tell them my origin story

[Anonymous No.19304416]

What can I read to understand both sides of the materialism argument?

[Anonymous No.19304474]

>>19299999
Unable to speak directly for materialism, but I do derive what you term "sick enjoyment" from the fact that even the strongest regimes with the most convincing ideals will be overthrown by their children, that all the labour of man is for his mouth, and that all are fated to die.

It is better that men can arise in every age who think clearly, than that our desires for comfort are realized.

[Anonymous No.19304539]

>>19300202
>give my life.
Dude you literally only have to work for 10 years and by then you'd have accrued enough to live off of for the rest of your life. You fuckers like to pretend you're smart but can't into compound interest.

[Anonymous No.19304829]

I completely gave up art which had been the sole purpose of my life for the last 12 years. It was the only thing that stopped making me want to kill myself. I wanted to find a way to sell art and live in poverty doing something I enjoyed. I wanted nothing else from life, I just wanted to survive doing something that wasn't torture. This year I gave up and all the things I had left out of the door while I chased this thing have waltzed back in and they're worse than before.
I tried to find some purpose in religion but I don't believe. There's no afterlife, there's no God whose promises I believe in. I have tried so hard to force myself to believe, I just cannot. I can't pray because I have no hope at all than anything will change for me, I'll just be another number working a miserable job day in day out, going back home with nothing to do. I don't like anything the world has to offer me, I don't like anything, I just wanted to paint but I didn't make it. I don't want to live like this. I promised myself I'd stay alive until both my parents died but I can't do it. Maybe I'll use what's left of my savings to travel somewhere far away and kill myself there.

[Anonymous No.19304857]

>>19304829
I will pray for you, anon.

What is your daily life like? Why is it so unbearable?

[Anonymous No.19304917]

I agree, good thing it isn't true

[Anonymous No.19304952]

>>19299999
Bump

[Anonymous No.19305692]

>>19304056
The way I address this, through a pleasure-minus-pain material lens, is that I consider the forms of pleasure that man can enjoy to be far more nuanced and sublime than the pleasures that some profane life-form such as a maggot might enjoy. Whereas maggots (if they can indeed feel anything at all) only have access to the contentment of satisfying their hunger; man can feel love, catharsis, friendship, and other refined enjoyments derived of mental states that simply aren't available to maggots and the like.

[Anonymous No.19305702]

>>19304917
Please enlighten us, wise master

[Anonymous No.19305703]

>>19299999
Materialism is a crock of shit

[Anonymous No.19305726]

>>19305702
Im not that anon but I will, you silly faggot. Because nothing is "true" you fucking retard. So a materialist would argue that happiness is just a construct of chemicals in the brain. Theyd argue that by manipulating the brains material chemistry, humans could be sent into a state of artificial bliss and happiness forever, or any other state, and that therefore the entirety of the spiritual realm is rendered invalid. Yet, if it were true, all of the various physical interventions on mans psyches would work flawlessly without the deleterious effects we all witness. Furthermore, there would be no resistance, the thing informing the resistance toward a materialist conception of reality and the Self, IS an aspect of reality and the Self.
So, in the final summation: if any man says he truly believes this, let him be the first to undergo the lobotomy. PUT HIS FUCKIN MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS, IF THE MATRIX IS ALL THERE IS, THEN GO AHEAD AND ENTER IT FOREVER YOURSELF.

[Anonymous No.19305739]

>>19299999
Are we going to ignore these digits? Materialism is a brutal blackpill but don't let it deter you from the truth.

[Anonymous No.19305763]

>>19305739
Tell me, anon

What is the truth?

[Anonymous No.19305771]

>>19303649
Yes

[Anonymous No.19305813]

>>19299999
>>19300081

Life is tragic, and most things happen by accident. Every philosopher has known this, even optimistic Plato has the dyad in his hidden doctrine, a principle which accounts for change, bending, and interrelation within the world.

[Anonymous No.19305825]

>>19305703
Why?

[Anonymous No.19305906]

>>19305726
>Because nothing is "true" you fucking retard.

Yeah everything's unverifiable and hidden behind a veil of subjective experience. Pretty basic shit. I don't know why you're admonishing me as if I don't already know this.

>So a materialist would argue that happiness is just a construct of chemicals in the brain.

An intelligent materialist would say that chemicals in the brain probably have something to do with our subjective experience, but that we are still largely ignorant of how it really functions.

>They'd argue that by manipulating the brains material chemistry, humans could be sent into a state of artificial bliss and happiness forever, or any other state

They might argue that, but with the addendum that such things are currently unfeasible because we don't have anything approaching a full understanding of the brain and its inner workings.

>and that therefore the entirety of the spiritual realm is rendered invalid.

This doesn't follow from the earlier clause of this sentence.

>Yet, if it were true, all of the various physical interventions on mans psyches would work flawlessly without the deleterious effects we all witness.

We do not have anything approaching a full understanding of the brain and how consciousness arises from it, so it is entirely unsurprising that we can't induce mental states at will by manipulating it.

>Furthermore, there would be no resistance, the thing informing the resistance toward a materialist conception of reality and the Self, IS an aspect of reality and the Self.

I see no reason why a mind arising from completely material means could not itself abhor or resist the thought of materialism.

>So, in the final summation: if any man says he truly believes this, let him be the first to undergo the lobotomy. PUT HIS FUCKIN MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS, IF THE MATRIX IS ALL THERE IS, THEN GO AHEAD AND ENTER IT FOREVER YOURSELF.

You're losing any coherence you had here. Why do you think it follows that sincere materialists should feel compelled to lobotomize themselves? If anything, a materialist should abhor lobotomy even more than a spiritualist, because the materialist understands that lobotomy will alter his self and destroy his personality and his ability to function properly, whereas a spiritualist could convince himself that some permanent, divine part of himself could survive a lobotomy. A materialist would be the last person to agree to a lobotomy, because he would understand the full implications of it.

[Anonymous No.19306002]

>>19303989
>you're either being edgy or haven't actually thought about the implications. I'm not "freaking out" about it. I function perfectly fine and from the outside appear to be living a very successful and fulfilling life. But if it doesn't gnaw away at you from the inside, you are either deluding yourself, ignoring it, or coping. Or some combination of those things. I'm in my mid thirties now and am more sure of this than ever.

LOL u sound like the main character in The Fall. Your only purpose is to reproduce. That's all that's it. Go and do some charity you navel gazing wimp.

[Anonymous No.19306009]

>>19303989
>haven't actually thought about the implications.

There are no implications about life having no meaning. Eat Pray Love must be your fave book.

[Anonymous No.19306033]

>>19300273
Exactly this

[Anonymous No.19306063]

>>19299999
the hard problem of consciousness disproves physicalism

[Anonymous No.19306082]

>>19306063
It doesn't

The truth is obvious, you're just choking on it

[Anonymous No.19306101]

All of the non-materialist/physicalists in this thread have outed themselves as supremo brainlets

[Anonymous No.19306110]

Imagine being retarded enough to believe only in some vague “physical” reality. Qualia is inherently non-material

[Anonymous No.19306116]

>>19306002
>Your only purpose is to reproduce
That’s how evolution works, yes. If you fail to reproduce, you were a loser and had inferior genetics to a literal molerat.
>Go and do some charity you navel gazing wimp
Charity is irrational.

[Anonymous No.19306137]

>>19306101
They're just coping, why cause a chain of suicides?

[Anonymous No.19306142]

>>19306110
Right?

[Anonymous No.19306160]

>>19306082
Physicalism can't explain subjective experience.

[Anonymous No.19306181]

>>19306160
You're right, but it's a small gap quickly being closed by neuroscience. It's undeniable that consciousness doesn't have something to do with the brain because brain damage directly impacts someone's personality and subjective experience.

[Anonymous No.19306207]

>>19306181
>You're right, but it's a small gap quickly being closed by neuroscience
Lmao
“This wiggly bit seems to gyrate when he feels sad” is all you will ever get.

[Anonymous No.19306224]

>>19306207
How is that not enough to indicate a connection?

[Anonymous No.19306226]

Thread seems interesting but a liitlo too long. Cana someone summarize it for me, in green text if you like.

[Anonymous No.19306228]

>>19306181
I'm really just fishing for possible physicalist explanations, I agree that physicalism is likely the answer. But I'd suggest checking out Bernardo Kastrup's dissertation on Analytical Idealism, his idealism circumnavigates the hard problem and he uses his idealist framework to explain physicalist objections such as the one you just brought up. It's an interesting read.

I don't think neuroscience will ever explain subjective experience when our algorithmic behavior supposedly inspired by inanimate atoms could and logically should just as easily occur "in the dark" without consciousness.

[Anonymous No.19306232]

>>19306226
We've gotten nowhere because existential thought is a mind virus that eats cycles that could be better spent thinking.

[Anonymous No.19306244]

>>19306224
No one said there wasn’t some vague “connection”. Qualia, by virtue of being subjective, is inherently non-material and cannot be explained physically. The very act of experiencing is the queerest thing in nature, undeniably, and you’d have to tie yourself in knots to think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.19306246]

>>19306181
Daily reminder that neuroscientists can't map the inputs and outputs of a fucking microprocessor. What makes you think any of their shit is accurate for the human brain?

[Anonymous No.19306257]

>>19306228
I was just fishing for immaterial explanations, anon

Kastrup is great, reading him now

[Anonymous No.19306258]

the neural correlates of consciousness are damning but not entirely.
If there is a part of subjective self that is immaterial, its really weird and doesn't feel like this, like you feel right now. It's pretty fuckin alien if you think about it.

[Anonymous No.19306260]

>>19306228
>I agree that physicalism is likely the answer
Incoherent unless you’re claiming to be a mindless robot

[Anonymous No.19306266]

>>19306258
>If there is a part of subjective self that is immaterial, its really weird and doesn't feel like this, like you feel right now

Any and all “feeling” is immaterial.

[Anonymous No.19306285]

>>19306266
Except for what we can describe through neurology, of course. Your subject is still reacting in time, or with fear, or whatever, these require brainwork. They require amygdala and pons and all sorts of shit. We know this much.

The self without those structures is too bizarre to imagine.

[Anonymous No.19306295]

>>19306260
Anything other than physicalism as an explanation for reality is literally incomprehensible.

[Anonymous No.19306301]

>>19306285
>Except for what we can describe through neurology, of course
Neurology cannot describe or explain conscious experience.

[Anonymous No.19306310]

>>19306301
I'm sorry but the biggest hard problem advocates still give it up for correlates.
Anything else would be straight-up denial.

[Anonymous No.19306313]

>>19306295
A reality that lacks minds to experience it might be understandable through the lens of physicalism, but not ours. What is the “physical” supposed to even be?

[Anonymous No.19306323]

>>19306310
Correlates aren’t qualia. You’re genuinely claiming to be a philosophical zombie if you think some squiggly bits in your brain is what your mind is.

[Anonymous No.19306327]

how can it be both a cope and a blackpill

[Anonymous No.19306337]

>>19306327
Maybe different people perceive it to be different things. Oooooo mind blown

[Anonymous No.19306399]

>>19306002
I have already reproduced and give to charity as well as volunteer. Not that any of those things are relevant to the discussion.

>>19306009
>There are no implications about life having no meaning.
You're being obtuse. Clearly there are. Your values, how you decide to live, and your general outlook are going to be drastically different depending on one's worldview. I'm onboard with the idea that people need to create their own values, but without any foundation, I think the project is ultimately futile.

[Anonymous No.19306431]

>>19306399
Not him, but I’d always act based on my own intuition rather than based on some BS “objective morality”. Why should I do what is “objectively right: when doing something else makes me feel better?

[Anonymous No.19306488]

>>19306323
Its part of the story, m8.

[Anonymous No.19306504]

>>19300284
Not that astonishing of a percentage and doesn't really show that today is worsevthan prior times.

[Anonymous No.19306583]

>>19306431
why do you value feeling better? is there anything important enough to you that you would feel worse in order to achieve it? if so, what does that say about your intuition? if not, why?

[Anonymous No.19306671]

>>19306583
>why do you value feeling better?
It feels good.

[Anonymous No.19306681]

>>19306504
>the hands of a european 'person' typed this post

[Anonymous No.19306719]

>>19300284
Pinker is a huge fag for locking comments on his Twitter posts. What's even the point of being a public intellectual if you're gonna do that?

[Anonymous No.19306803]

>>19299999
Schizo here.

My perspective on what you appear to be calling materialism and what I refer to as rationalist empiricism is, naturally, very different from yours. I didn't realize until I was about nine or ten years old, for example, that everyone else in church was not literally talking to God.

To me, empiricism is the tool that allows me to have some confidence that what I'm experiencing corresponds to an objective reality that exists independently of myself. I believe, on faith alone, that that universe exists. For everything else I require proof.

Because if I don't - if I ever allow myself to believe that the thing that constantly speaks to me and calls itself God is real - I'm gonna be straight fucked. The moment I concede that argument, I invite the demons over the threshold, so to speak. My grip on reality depends on a relentless commitment to accuracy and a refusal to believe anything more than "the universe exists" without evidence.

All human beings rely on each other for basic reality checking, to some degree, but because of the psychosis my helplessness is more acute. Anyone who lies to me about anything at all, for any reason, weakens my grip on reality, and so I cannot tolerate very many friends in the long term. Lucidity is a choice I have to make every day. My brain does things to me, both at random and in response to stress, that most people have to take drugs to experience. I have repeatedly humiliated myself during episodes of severe psychosis that felt, subjectively, exactly how demonic possession is described. In order to function in the world at all I have to seriously restrict my own behavior and, to a lesser degree, what I permit myself to think about. All antipsychotics really do for me is make the episodes less painful - or, at high enough dosages, they put me in a vegetative state, in which I no longer understand why I am suffering and cannot form short term memories, which makes me panic and generally makes things worse.

So what the hell are you complaining about, really? Your source of abject horror is my only comfort in the perpetual noise. Would you really trade your life for mine, if you could?

[Anonymous No.19306975]

Great thread

[Anonymous No.19307252]

>>19306803
Fantastic post. Hope you make it, schizobro.

[Anonymous No.19307263]

>>19306285
Nope. can literally cut those parts of the brain out and it still mostly works.

[Anonymous No.19307414]

>>19307263
Occasionally they cut half of the whole brain out for people with seizures

[Anonymous No.19307439]

>>19300081
How i know you're in your early 20s

[Anonymous No.19307660]

>>19299999
>There's the growing suspicion in me that all philosophy asides from materialism is just cope and delusions with no rational basis
>Psychological Hedonism is primordially disgusting on some indescribable level
kek
>i have to fall back into (probably) coping, well, even saying probably and not absolutely is coping, just to function again
If everything is coping then even the best things regardless of definition are copes. Therefore coping is good. You're an idiot.
Checked btw

[Anonymous No.19307691]

Assuming your conceptualization of materialism is true and we're merely hopeless slaves to meaningless physical/biological urges and processes, what would you do differently in a world where this materialist enslavement was not the case?

[Anonymous No.19307713]

>>19305763
Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nar5doQyu2M

The meaning of truth is revealed.

[Anonymous No.19307770]

Why are you people so afraid of having limits? Everything has limits that define it, rules it is subjected to. A square has four equal sides, four right angles, and the area between them. Without limits, our existence would have no meaning. To imagine that our body and spirit are separate is as silly as imagining that my limbs are somehow separate from my body. Why would they be, unless someone were to artificially disconnect them? And yes, these limits could always be greater, it's our nature to push them out as far as we can, to grow bigger, stronger, faster, smarter. To improve. But at the end of the day, because a day must end, we eventually hit our personal limits that define us. In that moment or for all of eternity. We are not slaves to these limits. We ARE these limits. We are the sun as it rises and sets. We are the droplet that beads and falls. We are the ripple on the water's surface expanding outward as far as we can. Is this not as beautiful as it is terrifying? Is there not a pretty red bud on every thorny stem?

[Anonymous No.19307805]

>>19307770
Limits must be broken.

[Anonymous No.19307814]

>>19307805
Thus creating a new limit

[Anonymous No.19307835]

>>19307805
You have such a narrow view of the word "limit". A limit isn't just a challenge or an obstacle. It's also a metric. A descriptor. It is our existence. A man is this many inches tall and weighs that much. That number may change over time, but it is still a limit. Without those limits that man would be boundless, nearly as large as your mother.

[Anonymous No.19307857]

>>19304857
I have given up on art, my daily routine is relatively healthy. I'm poor and I live a frugal life but it doesn't really matter, I could be filthy rich and nothing would change, I could earn a living working 1 hour on some other job, then I'd come back home and I would feel useless. What is the point? If art no longer makes any sense except to prod people's brains for momentary dopamine rushes then I see no point in making art at all. That can't be art, it's really all just yet another product to consume. If everyone has abandoned any ideal then there's no point in art. If I were to sculpt a Pieta what would people see in it? Just an exercise in skill and nothing else. I don't see art as just aesthetics, art needs to elevate. But how can someone elevate anything if there's nothing to reach for? Really without the idea of honoring God or uplifting the soul, ennobling people — myself included — who are now impossible to ennoble like one can't ennoble an animal, art is what? Just a sensory stimulus? Then people who draw fucked up porn are the best artists of this time. Then the whores dancing half-naked are the new muses. I can't accept this. I just cannot find a role for myself when everything is so ugly, I genuinely just want to leave.

[Anonymous No.19308048]

Dear diary, today OP was a faggot. Business as usual.

[Anonymous No.19308063]

>>19299999
Look at this dude, trying to be something other than human. As if he could be anything else.
>Any time I do something a human enjoys, I have to stop myself because I might only enjoy it because I'm human.
You don't say. But what else could you do? What else could you be? What advantage does this idea of self loathing provide you? Philosophy and religion have to benefit you in some way or else they are pointless to have learned.

[Anonymous No.19308072]

>>19299999
>he didn't start with the Greeks
>he doesn't know how to search for happiness and truth beyond materialism
those quints are wasted on you

[Anonymous No.19308114]

Is the whole board nothing but retarded preteens, or what?
The world doesn't owe you a sense of meaning or importance, most people are lucky to have food to eat and spare time to fret about self-importance
>>19308072
relitards are the offal of human kind

[Anonymous No.19308116]

>>19301417
>Anyone but Nick Land though please

YOU WILL READ THE LAND AND GO FULL SCHIZO LIKE THE REST OF US

[Anonymous No.19308117]

>>19307857
Today you learn blackpills are psyops, not truth

[Anonymous No.19308147]

>Invent a false dichotomy of mind/matter back when we have no better understanding of matter beyond "a rock", and no better understanding of mind beyond "I feels things".
>Stick to this false dichotomy despite getting solid better knowledge on rocks and brains
>Said better knowledge implies that there is no actual dichotomy, it was just our (understandably) faulty reasoning due to limitations of our analysis and perception.
>"OOOOH NNNOOOOOOO I AM NO DIFFERENT FROM A ROCK LYING ON THE SIDE OF A ROAD HELP ME NIGGERMAN I AM SUICIIIOOOOOOMING"
>post this impression on an Internet Thai Flipflop Manufacturing forum utilizing a series of thinking rocks.

Picrel is you, anon. You are a horse scared by it's own farts. The only difference here is that horse has no other option other than scaring itself. It does so by necessity. You are deliberately doing this when you don't have to. You are inferior to said horse. Probably inferior to an actual rock, too.

[Anonymous No.19308164]

>>19307857
>it's really all just
>Just an
>as just
>Just a
>I just
These reductions make as much sense as, say
>(you're going on about ennobeling of the soul and honoring God)
>"Well then a God is JUST a guy in the sky who tortures us in order to condition our souls to fit some arbitrary quality of "nobility", like we're JUST some agricultural crop for him or something".

Your reasoning has no content beyond
> "A, B and C are JUST X".
>"X is JUST bad".
You're brainwashing yourself into being upset for no good reason.

[Anonymous No.19308187]

>>19307835
>Without those limits that man would be boundless
That’s the goal, yes.

[Anonymous No.19308205]

this reads like you came up with this stuff because it sounds good and smart

[Anonymous No.19308239]

>>19308164
How it anything I said reductive because of a word I used? People DO not believe in anything today, the ruling mindset is nihilistic hedonism. Who do I only get answers from very smart Redditors who think they can deconstruct what I say over tone or terminology?

[Anonymous No.19308267]

>>19308239
>How it anything I said reductive because of a word I used
it is reductive specifically in how you tale and phenomenon and arbitralriy equate it with another one, and the other one is then arbitrarily a Bad Thing.

>People DO not believe in anything today
They never did. Reminder that we crucified Jesus back in the I century, not yesterday. You only invent this decline to exemplify how it happening made (you) the victim, while people of The Olde that you idealize where free from the effects of such decadent horror - which is what allowed them to live lives full of meaning and reason. Yeah, I'm sure that's what the early Christians felt when they were literally fed alive to lions in the Colosseum as an entertainment for a crowd.

>the ruling mindset is nihilistic hedonism
It's not the ruling one - it's the default one. Always has been, back since the animals. And as far as it existed, it wasn't really good at preventing others from not subscribing to it - that's why it is not the ruling one. Hedonistic consoomers don't care about whether you subscribe to their hedonism - if they cared, they would not be hedonists. Instead it is (you) who cares about what they think. Because (you) a bitch.

>Who do I only get answers from very smart Redditors who think they can deconstruct what I say over tone or terminology?
My criticism was not about terminology - it was about the entire process - you refuse understanding in favor of JUST reducing everything to, well, shit. That's your own choice, and an entirely arbitrary one.

[Anonymous No.19308298]

>>19306803
What does "the voice that calls itself God" tell you, anon?

[Anonymous No.19308351]

>>19308267
>You only invent this decline
Stop wasting my time with your stupid gaslighting. I should really stop posting about this shit.

[Anonymous No.19308367]

>>19308267
>mans decline is invented
ok retard. Its actually well documented.

[Anonymous No.19308391]

>>19308351
>Stop wasting my time with your stupid gaslighting.
Apologies. I didn't recognize you as a personal eyewitness without your trip, Methuselah. Never thought that you'll be posting as anon.

[Anonymous No.19308397]

>>19299999
Stop shilling your ideology. Materialism, philosophically-speaking, is retarded. Like on the level of dumb myths you tell the population to keep them in line. I get where you're coming from but you are clearly immature.

[Anonymous No.19308543]

>>19304367
The whole thread and premise is just misery porn. Not philosophical one bit. Of course it doesn't make sense.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.19308548]

>>19300596
It’s a shame that the best post in the thread has gotten ignored.

[Anonymous No.19308623]

>>19307691
I already behave as if it isn't the case because it's my source of motivation

If it was proven to BE the case though i'd become completely nihilistic, if all our subjective experiences of "choice" and "higher thought" are illusory, then conscious, self-aware aren't truly any different from unconscious inanimate objects, and human suffering or thriving aren't any more worth caring about than a rock or a pile of shit

[Anonymous No.19308861]

>>19307857
Why did you give up? Why do you make art for any other reason that for your own sake? Or whatever cause you feel is best? At least your hobby isn't insanely expensive. I'm into motorsports. I will probably never drive in something close to the higher formulas. Even lower tier racing like karts or god forbid formula 4 or indy lights costs anywhere from thousands to tens of thousands of dollars per SEASON. I will forever be figuratively sucking off old dudes or wage slaving like a mother fucker just to make it to the grid, but I will NEVER stop, because I love it and it loves me back. Don't stop fighting, the fight is what keeps us alive. This has nothing to do with materialism and everything to do with your abandonment of the things you truly care about. Consider therapy, a regular sleep schedule, or whatever gets you in good shape and get back on the horse.

[Anonymous No.19308878]

>>19308623
Why is suffering any less meaningful just because it is predetermined. How is choice illusory. We still make choices, they are just finite choices with finite outcomes because we are finite. That doesn't mean we didn't make a choice. We make choices all the time, even without knowing, that's who we are. Conscious beings are self aware, but that doesn't make them suddenly capable of defying fate.

[Anonymous No.19309234]

>>19308861
>Why do you make art for any other reason that for your own sake?
And what would be art for art's sake? Enjoying wasting art supplies? Much like writing, art is an act of communication. You should ask yourself then what is the point if love: why would you want to love another when you already have yourself to love, and one should approach love as nothing but sex, and masturbate as if that covered the need for love. "You should make art for art's sake" is a massively nihilistic idea that is about as absurd as asking a plant to take root in the sand, and grow for growth's sake, or to ask someone to live for life's sake, without a purpose or a point.

[Anonymous No.19310360]

>>19308623
I understand where you're coming from and I hope you can stay motivated.
But why would you necessarily do anything different in either case? Behind your judgements of the situation, nothing in your experience would change.
Choosing to do whatever you want at anytime completely free from any conditions and causes would just be random and equally meaningless, and that's assuming that in such a case it would even be possible to want.

Slap yourself hard in the face. Maybe the slap, the pain, the reaction, and the thoughts about it are all determined and meaningless. But I'm sure the action felt free, and try and tell me that pain doesn't feel just as "meaningful" as it needs to. If it doesn't, then you didn't slap hard enough. Besides, if everything is meaningless, then so is the meaninglessness.

If all is material, then so is your clinging and grasping for something that is not, whether that be grasping for free will or meaning or whatever. This conflict is possibly where a lot if not all of your anxiety lies. In the case of materialism, any aversion you have for these "hedonistic" desires is born from the same source that the desires are, as is everything. All you need to do is let go, not push away, but stop resisting and let go of trying to hold onto something that isn't there to be held on to, and then eventually let go of materialism itself. Either materialism is true and you're grasping for something that can't be grasped, or materialism isn't true and you're creating a conflict where it doesn't exist. Note that this doesn't mean to just lie down and vegetate, in your experience you still gotta make choices yourself.

[Anonymous No.19310459]

>>19300549
>They would realize life is truly random, meaningless and apathetic
life is extremely rare on the contrary, the right set of condtions that allow it, to have earth, the atmosphere and water etc that make life possible is infinitely tiny.

[Anonymous No.19310541]

>materialism can't be cope because it's miserable and horrifying
An adult will have seen people drown in their misery
some comfort themselves by pretending their better than everyone else
others comfort themselves by pretending reality is as miserable as they are
materialism manages to accomplish both
an extremely effective and boring form of cope

[Anonymous No.19310829]

>>19309234
Why not release art online? Even if you're not super successful, you would still have at least a few fans to communicate your art to.

>>19310459
We have no idea whether the conditions are rare because we only known of one set of conditions. There's no reason to assume that Earth-like conditions are the only ones that produce life.

[Anonymous No.19310892]

>>19307857
do you mind being more specific about what sort of art you are making? what your aim is, what your intentions are?

I don't see how it matters if most people are not regularly having near religious experiences with art. That has never been true, most people in human history had very little exposure to art and relied on nature and rituals for that sort of elevation. As long as you are able to get your art out there, whether online, local galleries, whatever, that's all you can really do. It may be a con of our age that people have such easy access to distractions that deter them from "higher" art as you put it, but the pro of our age is that it is easier than ever to reach an audience with whatever you are creating. If you had been born a few generations earlier, you would have likely never even had the opportunity to make art, let alone share it with anyone.

[Anonymous No.19310980]

>>19299999
you should smoke salvia

[Anonymous No.19311179]

>>19301549
>We work less than ever
you're fucking retarded if you think this is true

[Anonymous No.19311356]

>>19311179
You're retarded if you think it's not.

[Anonymous No.19311364]

>>19300596
>However, it's assumed that the Moon doesn't disappear when we stop looking at it.

Yes it does. It doesn't even exist if you stop looking at it. If you never look at the moon again it will never exist again.

[Anonymous No.19311374]

>>19307857
cringe

[Anonymous No.19311867]

>>19311356
you've never read a book in your life numbnut

[Anonymous No.19312018]

There is no meaning. The physical world is all we will truly experience outside of evolved religious copes.
There is not to be had in the mess, and that is satisfying your biological programming for success, happiness, friendship, and romance.
That's all there is and ever will be

[Anonymous No.19312146]

How do I escape materialism?

[Anonymous No.19312161]

>>19312146
Why would you want to escape it?

[Anonymous No.19312799]

>>19310892
>most people in human history had very little exposure to art
there was art everywhere in the streets, in churches and temples...

[Anonymous No.19312817]

>>19310892
>>19310829
Also no, it makes no sense to dump art online. If you're not making an active effort to "market" your art which means dropping what you are doing and doing something else entirely, you won't exist. Try looking forward to posting art only to have it comment spammed by the occasional bot. I'm not going to burn myself out for years for the sake of adding "content" to the pile. At this point I am actively against fueling this machine in any way, I want nothing to do with algorithms and the subhumans who use social media.

[Anonymous No.19312927]

>>19309234
I'm not asking you to make art for "art's sake". I am asking you to find something that you want to communicate and an audience you want to communicate to if you actually enjoy communicating. We are more connected than ever before in human history. Go find your message and your audience.

[Anonymous No.19313078]

>>19311867
says someone who thinks we work more than ever before kek.

[Anonymous No.19313081]

>>19312018
based