/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19277456]

I'm starting to think none of you have actually read the Greeks

[Anonymous No.19277464]

>>19277456
>I'm starting to think none of you actually read
Could have just stopped there, OP

[Anonymous No.19277471]

>>19277456
And yet neither Senece nor Cicero killed themselves. Really makes you think.

[Anonymous No.19277473]

>>19277456
only 1 out of the bottom 4 is greek

[Anonymous No.19277474]

>>19277456
Nah, I've read them and I know the perennial truth. Feels bad, man.

[Anonymous No.19277479]

>>19277456
There isn't a single greek thinker or work in that picture, what are you trying to say OP?

[Anonymous No.19277482]

I've read the Oresteia

[Anonymous No.19277515]

>>19277471
>And yet neither Senece nor Cicero killed themselves
Are you actually retarded?

[Anonymous No.19277518]

>>19277515
Did they kill themselves?

[Anonymous No.19277527]

>>19277456
I’ve read Plato (75%), The Iliad, The Odyssey and Oedipus Rex

[Anonymous No.19277571]

>>19277518
It’s kinda complicated as they were both put into impossible situations but I would say yes.

[Anonymous No.19277626]

>>19277571
Wasn't Cicero killed by one of Marc Antony's men who then nailed his hands to the doors of the senate house?

[Anonymous No.19277747]

Delete greekshit

[Anonymous No.19277775]

>>19277456
greek philosophy began when greece was declining and becoming effeminate.
say yes to life.

[Anonymous No.19277779]

GET

[Anonymous No.19277795]

>>19277571
It's not complicated at all, Seneca did kill himself

[Anonymous No.19277810]

>>19277795
Not because he wanted to. He did it because it would be more honorable than to be forcibly executed. He still only did it under the command of the emperor.

[Anonymous No.19277840]

>>19277456
The difference is that you are a depressed faggot who can't understand that the Greeks and people of God knew the tragic aspect of life. The consciousness of tragedy is not cowering from life, but its affirmation.

>Tragedy is so far from proving anything about the pessimism of Hellenes, in Schopenhauer's sense, that it may, on the contrary, be considered its decisive repudiation and counter-instance. Saying Yes to life even in its strangest and hardest problems, the will to life rejoicing over its own inexhaustibility even in the very sacrifice of its highest type—that is what I called Dionysian, that is what I guessed to be the bridge to the psychology of the tragic poet.

The tragedians infused the myths with a pessimistic tone emphasizing the awareness of destiny, giving it a a more realistic aspect to the crimes, curses in order to transform the mourning into high art.
This is also expressed by the tragic Heraclitus who knew that life being a flux and war of opposites, was itself the order of Justice (this was also how Anaximander understood the cosmic laws).

[Anonymous No.19277903]

>>19277795
>>19277810
and it had nothing to do with his utter contempt for existence lol

[Anonymous No.19277915]

>>19277456
The Birth of Tragedy

[Anonymous No.19277999]

>>19277456
>Seneca
>Cicero
Neither of these are Greeks

[Anonymous No.19278087]

>>19277775
>nietzsche
>not effeminate
you got filtered by him

[Anonymous No.19278337]

>>19277456
Since when did "read the Greeks" mean "agree with everything the Greeks wrote"?

[Anonymous No.19278479]

>>19277775
Stick to the presocratics

[Anonymous No.19278500]

>>19277775
>>19277840
>>19277915
Nietzsche provided a fictional account of Greeks. He was no historian and most of philologists of his time lamented him for misrepresenting Greeks with his retarded romantic babbling.

Anyway, I think OP is talking about The Wisdom of Silenus and Hegesias of Cyrene.

>"You, most blessed and happiest among humans, may well consider those blessed and happiest who have departed this life before you, and thus you may consider it unlawful, indeed blasphemous, to speak anything ill or false of them, since they now have been transformed into a better and more refined nature. This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true. Moreover, you know what is so often said and passes for a trite expression. What is that, he asked? He answered: It is best not to be born at all; and next to that, it is better to die than to live; and this is confirmed even by divine testimony. Pertinently to this they say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: 'you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.' It is plain therefore, that he declared the condition of the dead to be better than that of the living."

Hegesias of Cyrene, Death by Starvation:
>The book was called Death by Starvation or The Death-Persuader. According to the Roman orator Cicero (lived 106 – 43 BC), the entire book was essentially an argument for why everyone should just give up on life and kill themselves.

[Anonymous No.19278602]

>>19278500
I literally showed how pre-socratics agreed with him and pointed out a spiritual understanding of greek drama (and how both form a single sense of tragedy). Pessimism does not equal antinatalism and pessimism can be sublated to its artistic and spiritual expression: Tragedy. This is the difference between the noble and the perfidious: for the noble the ontological pessimism is the very productive, creative force expressing itself in Beauty through art and spirituality; whereas for the rabble the pessimism hypostatizes, it fixes itself on the fixty of the I through which the Object inherits.

>Where things are born, there too must they perish; for each in turn metes out
punishment and expiation for its wickedness, each in the allotted time

And even the Aristotelian psychological interpretation of catharsis goes in favor of Nietzsche's point.
But what an empty retort of yours with this ''he was no historian''. So we cannot construe a particular expression of greek psychology and pathos from literary analyses, comparative studies? Tragedians, poets, myths, philosophers, none being able to express their own culture? Because we know literary critics who categorized Nietzsche's views positively (no wonder why his interpretations are influential).

[Anonymous No.19278679]

I tried, but it was all Greek to me.

[Anonymous No.19278702]

>>19277471
kek

[Anonymous No.19278709]

>>19278679
You got a slight chuckle from me. Here's your (you)

[Anonymous No.19278754]

>>19277473
Who? None of them are Greek.

[Anonymous No.19278771]

>>19277903
This.
Then you have people (OP, >>19277571, >>19277795, >>19278500) with a soul so sick, intellectually incapable of understanding things in depth for they themselves lack any depth, to right off transfer their pathological pessimism to any form of tragical conception or suicide itself.

>The sick man is a parasite of society. In a certain state it is indecent to live longer. To go on vegetating in cowardly dependence on physicians and machinations, after the meaning of life, the right to life, has been lost. [...] To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death freely chosen, death at the right time, brightly and cheerfully accomplished amid children and witnesses: then a real farewell is still possible, as the one who is taking leave is still there. [...] From love of life one should desire a different death: free, conscious, without accident, without ambush.

[Anonymous No.19278989]

>>19277464
>I'm starting to think

[Anonymous No.19279191]

>>19278989
>I'm

[Anonymous No.19279218]

>>19277456
Okay so literally none of these are historically greek

[Anonymous No.19279325]

>>19278602
>I literally showed how pre-socratics agreed with him and pointed out a spiritual understanding of greek drama (and how both form a single sense of tragedy).
He misrepresented them. And no scholar of Greeks take him seriously. He pulled many concepts out of his ass.

>The Birth of Tragedy was angrily criticized by many respected professional scholars of Greek literature. Particularly vehement was philologist Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff, who denounced Nietzsche's work as slipshod and misleading.

Nonetheless Philosophical Pessimism/antinatalism is also Greek wisdom of Silenus who was the master of Dionysus. And that Germanic goblin have no authority over preSocratics.

>>19278771
>with a soul so sick, intellectually incapable of understanding things in depth for they themselves lack any depth
What depth Nietzsche himself was pseud retard and a dogshit scholar.

[Anonymous No.19279382]

>>19278771
>>The sick man is a parasite of society. In a certain state it is indecent to live longer. To go on vegetating in cowardly dependence on physicians and machinations, after the meaning of life, the right to life, has been lost. [...] To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death freely chosen, death at the right time, brightly and cheerfully accomplished amid children and witnesses: then a real farewell is still possible, as the one who is taking leave is still there. [...] From love of life one should desire a different death: free, conscious, without accident, without ambush
Utter madness, a healthy should never make such solipsistic claims about the sick. You should repeat this when you will be 50 years old, weak and fragile, suffering from ass cancer and shitting your guts down in the fucking loo. No one will repeat these ramblings of a pathetic invalid. These words have zero relation with reality.

[Anonymous No.19279387]

>>19279325
I was going to give you another serious answer but all you do is resort to ''nietzsche this, nietzsche that'' without any substantial elaboration.

>that germanic goblin have no authority
Yes and I didn't use any of his interpretations about them to write what I did in that post.

>Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff
His reaction was mainly because of Nietzsche's point about Euripides.

>no scholar of greeks take him seriously
Who is Jacob Burckhardt?

>Silenus
Read the Birth of Tragedy.

Anyway, why would I try to argue in favour of one of the most artistically prolific civilizations in history against a sick nihilist advocating mass suicide and how the greatest producers thought just like him?

[Anonymous No.19279394]

>>19279382
>his microbrain was incapable of computing a non-literal reading of clear and direct short passage of three lines.

This is the board I frequent.

[Anonymous No.19279400]

>>19279387
>>Silenus
>Read the Birth of Tragedy.
No, I have told you earlier, that Germanic goblin has no authority over Greeks. Silenus uttered those words and same words were written by Sophocles and I will go to primary sources rather than reading the words of a madman.

[Anonymous No.19279413]

>>19279394
Ah, the good old christcuck trick of no don't get it man, it's a metaphor man.

[Anonymous No.19279415]

>>19277471
Based and kekked

[Anonymous No.19279447]

>>19279400
Silenus uttered those words... lol. But yeah, I'll have your excision of his myth refuted by giving you the mythical fact that Silenus.... had descendants! Also, his name is derived from the words seiô, "to move to and fro," and lênos, "the wine-trough''. More: he was a satyr and related to the symbol of the phallus. But yeah you probably won't take mythical symbolism too seriously, right?

If you dismiss Nietzsche's views without having read them because your sick soul is consumed by resentment against the man, then read Plutarch's related essay.

>by Sophocles
And I explained the tragic art of Sophocles (you should read... I mean remember, of course, Oedipus at Colonus).

>I will go to primary sources rather than reading the words of a madman.
Didn't I quote Anaximander some posts above?

[Anonymous No.19279459]

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Philosophical_pessimism

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Antinatalism

I kneel...

[Anonymous No.19279468]

>>19279413
>guy never read Nietzsche in his life but knows when Nietzsche is employing his common witty and ironical remarks in the ambiguous aphorisms making the plain and repeated interrelation between the physiological and the psychical, one as mirror of the other and when Nietzsche is being seriously literal in his words even though they show exactly this kind of ambiguity

Look at the state of this board, holy shit

[Anonymous No.19279475]

>>19277471
Excellent bait anon

[Anonymous No.19279511]

>>19279447
>le interpretations
Kek, fuck off bro.

>This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true.
Philosophical Pessimism is a Perennial Truth. It is also a part of Greek wisdom which you're denying and coping as hard as you can. Wisdom and mythology are intertwined. If your cult of optimism has ancient philosophical roots then so does pessimism.

Hegesias of Cyrene, Death by Starvation:
>The book was called Death by Starvation or The Death-Persuader. According to the Roman orator Cicero (lived 106 – 43 BC), the entire book was essentially an argument for why everyone should just give up on life and kill themselves.

Ecclesiastes 4:1
>Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun: I saw the tears of the oppressed-- and they have no comforter; power was on the side of their oppressors-- and they have no comforter.
Ecclesiastes 4:2
>And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive.
Ecclesiastes 4:3
>But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 4:4
>And I saw that all toil and all achievement spring from one person’s envy of another. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.


THE DIALOGUE OF PESSIMISM, MESOPOTAMIAN WISDOM
>What then is good? To have my neck and yours broken, Or to be thrown into the river, is that good?
>Who is so tall as to ascend to heaven? Who is so broad as to encompass the entire world?

First Two Noble Truth of Buddhism:
>dukkha (suffering, incapable of satisfying, painful) is an innate characteristic of existence in the realm of samsara;
>samudaya (origin, arising) of this dukkha, which arises or "comes together" with taṇhā ("craving, desire or attachment")

[Anonymous No.19279516]

>>19279468
Go away pilpul, jerk around your Scholastic faggotroy some where else.

[Anonymous No.19279577]

>>19279511
Anon, you can barely address my points making me at this moment doubt whether you are being disingenuous or just a utter retard. See why:

>Philosophical Pessimism is a Perennial Truth
Yes, I never denied and I agree (I made this clear all the time).

>It is also a part of Greek wisdom which you're denying and coping as hard as you can
Force your peabrain to do something and at least read my post here: >>19277840 and here >>19278602. I literally wrote ''The tragedians infused the myths with a pessimistic tone emphasizing the awareness of destiny, giving it a a more realistic aspect to the crimes, curses'', and literally confirmed an ontological pessimism of their vision of the world and life.

>Wisdom and mythology are intertwined.
Then do as Silenus: dance, chant and produce descendants.

>If your cult of optimism has ancient philosophical roots then so does pessimism.
I'm not an optimist and you are a dumbfuck who can't even understand what I'm saying.

>proceeds with the copy-paste from pro-nihilism threads forcing a literal rendering of complex passages that resonate with all the symbolical tone of someone like Heraclitus.

You are not a pessimist, you are a resentful depressive nihilist who wants everyone to partake of your weakness by fulfilling your wish of death. As soon as your wisdom came forth from an acolyte's putrid mouth, then its proper response was promptly made: ''Then why don't you just kill yourself?'' To this day this has not been answered and what is even more embarrassing, has not been performed.

[Anonymous No.19279687]

>>19279577
Philosophical Pessimism is antinatalistic and second axiom is to not have been born as the greatest salvation. Why do you want to bring children into the worst of all possible worlds? Where all will perish, all our actions means nothing in grand scheme of things, all civilizations die and I don't want to "contribute" anything towards the beast called human whose history is of mindless slaughter in the name of fanaticism which your beloved prophet preached. It's either God or nothing, a Pessimist can't fell so low into becoming a part of optimistic cult of vitality by affirming the most disgusting conspiracy of procreation, which is the most optimistic affirmation of life. All is vanity, the future is already past which signify nothing, was nothing and will be nothing. Pessimism is just a fucking edgy label that you use to cover up your vulgar optimism and lust for life. I am aware of my "weakness" to not kill myself but what kind of Nietzschean are you who is jerking away his time arguing with a "resentful" fag on one of the most nihilistic, resentful and degenerate website. All of you so called life affirmers what the fuck you're doing here? Go drink, dance, sing and impregnate women. But no, you're the ones who are weak, who sing romantic songs about life, about dangers of life while sitting in the comforts of your rooms.

[Anonymous No.19279761]

>>19279687
Are you choosing God over nothing, anon?

[Anonymous No.19279762]

>>19279577
>As soon as your wisdom came forth from an acolyte's putrid mouth, then its proper response was promptly made: ''Then why don't you just kill yourself?'' To this day this has not been answered and what is even more embarrassing, has not been performed.
It was answered and "performed" by Philipp Mainländer. Nietzsche been a resentful goblin he was, you should read what he said about Mainländer.

>>Nietzsche immediately read Die Philosophie der Erlösung in the year it was published, before any review had appeared. The work contributed to his final separation from Schopenhauer's philosophy.[22] In his own works, Nietzsche gave no attention to Mainländer until a decade later, that is, in the second, expanded edition of The Gay Science, the same book in which he had introduced the phrase "God is dead" in the first edition five years prior: "Could one count such dilettantes and old maids as the sickeningly sentimental apostle of virginity, Mainländer, as a genuine German? After all he was probably a Jew – (all Jews become sentimental when they moralize)."[23] It has been suggested that Mainländer was more than a mere influence, and was instead plagiarized.[24][25]

When a Pessimist commit suicide optimism cultist Nietzsche called him a dilettante but when a Pessimist(Schopenhauer because he played flute) doesn't commit suicide optimism cultists like Nietzsche call them "taking things too lightly". You people are disgustingly pathetic with no honor.

[Anonymous No.19279770]

>>19279762
Why does "honor" matter to you? You're a nihilist.

[Anonymous No.19279780]

>>19279761
No, you're either born with the gift of faith or you're not. When I was a kid I had a very personal relationship with God but the more "real" relationship I had was with emptiness or vanity which has always pained me, I wasn't aware of it in my childhood and it was there. I have lost the faith, my personal relationship and I can't seem to revive it but vanity is still there.

[Anonymous No.19279788]

>>19279770
No, I am not a nihilist but a Pessimist. Honor in the context of intellectual honesty for the people who think life should be affirmed even in the most horrible moment of suffering.

[Anonymous No.19279821]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19280404]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19280421]

>>19277471
KEK

[Anonymous No.19280823]

>>19279687
>Philosophical Pessimism is antinatalistic
No, it isn’t. Since you kept pressing on that mythical event of the encounter between Midas and Silenus isolatedly, I’ll simply tell you again Silenus used to chant, dance and had descendants. I won’t infer from this that Silenus is the symbol of a corny optimism because I’m not as retarded as you.

>the second axiom is not to have been born as the greatest salvation
The point is that there is precisely no salvation, no escape from the “conspiracy” of life and fate. Again, use your microbrain to joint the points with what I said about tragedy.

>why do you want to bring children into the worst of all possible words
Free will appears unfettered, deliberate; it is boundlessly free, wandering, the spirit. But fate is a necessity; unless we believe that world history is a dream-error, the unspeakable sorrows of mankind fantasies, and that we ourselves are but the toys of our fantasies. Fate is the boundless force of opposition against free will. Free will without fate is just as unthinkable as spirit without reality, good without evil. Only antithesis creates the quality.


In sum, your pessimism is just a moralism against humanity, nature, life, against God. Yes, all is vanity but how above every conceivable vanity is this of yours. You as a despiser of all things still respect yourself as a despiser. Vanity of vanities.
Your low internal potency can only find relief by subjecting the potency of everyone else to the same low and weak expression.

> what kind of Nietzschean are you who is jerking away his time arguing with a "resentful" fag on one of the most nihilistic, resentful and degenerate website. All of you so called life affirmers what the fuck you're doing here?
Why are you trying to advocate for what you believe in the same way the average normie will convince someone sad that life is sooo beautiful and sweet and cute and the most retarded shit? I can’t see no difference between both of your sentimentalisms.

> All of you so called life affirmers what the fuck you're doing here? Go drink, dance, sing and impregnate women. But no, you're the ones who are weak, who sing romantic songs about life, about dangers of life while sitting in the comforts of your rooms.
Affirming life does not mean affirming whatever retarded shit you think life consists in with your deviated depressed sense. I affirm nobility, the tragic sense of life, and solitude is one of the necessary consequences.

[Anonymous No.19280864]

>>19279762
Then I don’t think you believe Mainlander. Why are you not acquiescing his answer and instead keeps giving empty words that only distorts everything you employ as argument (Silenus, Greeks, myth, etc)? But I advise you not to fall for his sophistry, his answer was a sinple silence. How crushing is the roar of life’s victory with it: Life and Fate operate in silence.

Yeah, I admit Nietzsche worked with some resentment, but remember that he praised the resentment of Jews? This is because creative resentment still yields positive results. Look at yours, it is purely nihilistic and destructive, a resentment so profound that it ontologizes itself as the very answer of all things. It parasitizes your consciousness and takes its place. Your point of view of all things is nothing but your own eidetic transposition of Resentment-in-itself.

> When a Pessimist commit suicide optimism cultist Nietzsche called him a dilettante but when a Pessimist(Schopenhauer because he played flute) doesn't commit suicide optimism cultists like Nietzsche call them "taking things too lightly". You people are disgustingly pathetic with no honor.
Exactly! This is the point. Your kind will always be hypocrite and vain. As I said life will always triumph on you, you yield to life, whereas we battle against it, transform it, Fire against Fire.

[Anonymous No.19280994]

>>19280823
>No, it isn’t.
Yes, it is. Silenus is just a source to provide the wisdom that dead are better than living, which has been passed down to us from the eternity. There isn't just the wisdom of Silenus but Pessimistic wisdom came to us from many civilizations around the world.

>The point is that there is precisely no salvation, no escape from the “conspiracy” of life and fate.
Not for us but for our potential kids. No sane man will commit the sin of ripping apart them from nonexistence and bringing them into this wretched world. Even Nietzsche died childless.

>Fate is the boundless force of opposition against free will.
This such a shitty cope. We have a choice for those noble beings to let them stay into potentialities and blessed calm of nonexistence.

>Your low internal potency can only find relief by subjecting the potency of everyone else to the same low and weak expression.
Everyone does this. Scapegoating is desire building 101. The thing is, Pessimists side with religions in their antihumanism while you're slaves of worldly desire and lust for life. Pessimist say No to world in its entirety. Pessimists are the quietists of philosophers.

>Why are you trying to advocate for what you believe in the same way the average normie will convince someone sad that life is sooo beautiful and sweet and cute and the most retarded shit?
There is a difference here. It's you're the one who is affirming being drunk, dancing and impregnating women not me, I am negating everything. From logic which you're telling me to commit suicide, with same logic I am telling you to affirm being drunk, dancing and impregnating women. If you don't like other people preaching to you then don't preach to them first and call them names.

>Affirming life does not mean affirming whatever retarded shit you think life consists in with your deviated depressed sense.
Hmm, let's see what gay and sane Nietzsche is telling people to affirm

>They return to the innocent conscience of the wild beast, as exultant monsters, who perhaps go away having committed a hideous succession of murder, arson, rape and torture, in a mood of bravado and spiritual equilibrium as though they had simply played a student’s prank, [...] At the centre of all these noble races [...] the beast must out again, must return to the wild. It was the noble races which left the concept of ‘barbarian’ in their traces wherever they went; even their highest culture betrays the fact that they were conscious of this and indeed proud of it

I am not psychopath and I will never tell anyone to affirm this brain vomit. There is nothing noble about these lines.

[Anonymous No.19281011]

>>19280994
>potentialities and blessed calm of nonexistence

[Anonymous No.19281021]

>>19277456
>I'm starting to think none of you have actually read the Greeks
None of those people are Greeks, and KIKEro should not be trusted

[Anonymous No.19281051]

>>19280994
Lol, besides ignoring all the more in depth analyses of myth, tragedy, Dionysus, you keep ignoring the very life of Silenus himself having children, affirming life in its own ecstasy.

>Not for us but for our potential kids. No sane man will commit the sin of ripping apart them from nonexistence and bringing them into this wretched world.
Bringing what to existence? How is non-existence feeling comfy in non-existence? Existence and suffering are one. There is nothing besides this, you still can't understand tragedy and Silenus' wisdom, there is simply nothing but suffering.

>This such a shitty cope.
Tell this to the greeks and tragedians, retard.

>We have a choice for those noble beings to let them stay into potentialities and blessed calm of nonexistence.
See above.

>From logic which you're telling me to commit suicide, with same logic I am telling you to affirm being drunk, dancing and impregnating women. If you don't like other people preaching to you then don't preach to them first and call them names.
I'm not affirming being drunk, dancing and impregnating women. I mean, yeah you can do it, but life is not only this. There is indeed a difference and it is this: life is open, you on the other hand have only one choice: suicide and murder.

''This is the crux of the moral pessimists: if they really wanted to promote their neighbor's redemption, then they would have to resolve themselves to spoiling existence for him, and thus being his misfortune; out of pity they would have to become evil''.

>beast passage from Nietzsche
This has context but essentially, yes, life is made of struggle, war. The world is a vast altar on which everything must be sacrificed. You have no choice but giving praise to it, being alive, dying naturally, killing yourself and killing others, in any way you'll affirm life itself.

[Anonymous No.19281073]

>>19277456
Who cares, fuck the greeks theyre boring as shit, i use audible btw dork

[Anonymous No.19281076]

>>19280864
>Why are you not acquiescing his answer
His answer wasn't suicide. But asceticism and I am trying my best to do what Schopenhauer and Mainländer preached. I do admit that Will-to-Live is strong to defeat but I will not affirm the principal of individuation and bring the greatest weight onto someone else, which is of the Self, a dagger in the flesh.

>How crushing is the roar of life’s victory with it: Life and Fate operate in silence.
There are no victories, just momentary triumphs which signify nothing. All will perish.

>creative resentment still yields positive results. Look at yours, it is purely nihilistic and destructive, a resentment so profound that it ontologizes itself as the very answer of all things.
Pessimist is away from action, from life. He isn't the destructive being, he is the quietist who wants nothing from life and give life just his negations, a nothing in return of nothing like Silence of God. Destructive beings are the life affirms, the skull crushers, the fanatic beasts of history, puppets of entropy high on lust for life, drenched in the illusion of dumb Will-to-Live. I don't blame your kind, you're too weak to deny will.

>Exactly! This is the point. Your kind will always be hypocrite and vain.
Nietzsche is our kind? And what is hypocrisy and being vain?

>As I said life will always triumph on you, you yield to life, whereas we battle against it, transform it, Fire against Fire.
All will perish, there is only death and vanity, painful nothingness against nothingness.

[Anonymous No.19281141]

>>19281051
>Silenus himself having children, affirming life in its own ecstasy.
Doesn't matter, the logical conclusion of that wisdom is antinatalism. He was just a source to a Perennial wisdom, "This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true."

>Bringing what to existence? How is non-existence feeling comfy in non-existence?
Potential children, like you coom into your wife's pussy and the thing comes out of it after 9 months. I respect Nietzsche for not inflecting the painful illusion of life to those potentialities for suffering.

>Tell this to the greeks and tragedians, retard.
I don't care if they had no control over their dicks or dick gloves weren't invented in their times. I am suffering right now and like Nietzsche I am not interested in inflicting it on those potentialities.

>I'm not affirming being drunk, dancing and impregnating women. I mean, yeah you can do it, but life is not only this. There is indeed a difference and it is this
There are many options in life I don't care about your dogma.

>This has context but essentially, yes, life is made of struggle, war. The world is a vast altar on which everything must be sacrificed. You have no choice but giving praise to it, being alive, dying naturally, killing yourself and killing others, in any way you'll affirm life itself.
Yes, this result in having poetic dictators who read the words of madmen and end with genocides for furthering the romantic cult of vitality.

[Anonymous No.19281239]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19281253]

>>19281076
>His answer wasn't suicide. But asceticism.
Asceticism in the hands of idiots become poison. I'd suggest you to avoid their corruption of it.

>I do admit that Will-to-Live is strong to defeat
Will-to-Live, Will-to-non-existence, they are all the same Will. Here I agree with Schopenhauer against Bahnsen and Mainlander. But it is what I said, Will, Power, these are the same and the only force operating and your will-to-death, will-not-to-will is just the very Will that brings life on.

>There are no victories, just momentary triumphs which signify nothing. All will perish.
Read Heraclitus. For water it is death to become earth, but out of
earth water arises. This is the Fire, the Logos, the Nomos of Life.

>Pessimist is away from action, from life. He isn't the destructive being, he is the quietist who wants nothing from life
Yet you can't shut up about it.

>Destructive beings are the life affirms
Read the Greeks, anon. Destruction is the one element of life indispensable to creation. Your dumb pseudo-gnostic absolute dualism is pure retardation.

>All will perish, there is only death and vanity, painful nothingness against nothingness.
Repeating yourself again, I'll avoid doing the same. Read above.

>>19281141
>Silenus
Yeah you keep repeating yourself with misinterpretations without getting the whole picture. Read above.

>Potential children
Do you care to show me potential children? What is it like? How does it feel being a potential child?

>I don't care if they had no control over their dicks or dick gloves weren't invented in their times.
Holy shit, this is not what I meant you absolute dumbfuck. I meant the tragic consciousness of Fate. Dude you are so sick you can't even understand things straight. No wonder you find yourself in this condition.

>There are many options in life I don't care about your dogma.
Ah, now I am the dogmatist. Lol you are miserably retarded.


Anyhow, I knew this would be a waste of time from the beginning judging by your dumb insubstantial superficialities and sentimentalism. What avails sowing seeds in a sterile soil?

[Anonymous No.19281254]

>>19281051
I want to hear your response to >>19281076
And
>>19281141

[Anonymous No.19281276]

>>19277456
I read them in highschool.

[Anonymous No.19281281]

unless you were born disabled or in a third world country, the only thing stopping you from enjoying life is purposely making your brain torture you
>b-but hedonism is soulless
no one is talking about hedonism

[Anonymous No.19281288]

>>19281254
>>19281253

[Anonymous No.19281394]

>>19281288
Great response

[Anonymous No.19281399]

>>19277456
I am Greek. Everything I read is Greeks.

[Anonymous No.19281402]

>>19281253
This is tiresome and we're moving circles. I will keep working my way towards self denial, towards taking off the cloak of Will-to-Live within representstion as a seprate subjectivity in which I can't feel the mystical oneness of all, which is the greatest tragedy, the root of all tragedies like Nietzsche and Mainländer I will never inflict it on a potentiality. To be not born is the greatest blessing. What Silenus gave us is the Perennial Truth, he was one source which came to us from many civilizations. All is vanity, all will perish. Death is my best hope to reunite with singularity of a Dead God.

[Anonymous No.19281426]

>>19281402
Are you a materialist?

[Anonymous No.19281443]

>>19281402
Have you read the upanishads?

[Anonymous No.19281505]

>>19281281
How do you enjoy life, anon?

[Anonymous No.19281506]

>>19281402
Of course this is tiresome and we keep moving in circles. You refuse to engage with Heraclitus, Aristotle, Tragedy, myth of Silenus and Dionysus. You just keep dogmatically repeating the same thing. Absolute NPC.

[Anonymous No.19281518]

>>19281402
I doubt you practice asceticism.

[Anonymous No.19281582]

>>19281426
No, I am a fence sitter. Emergence of consciousness out of matter doesn't make any sense. Emergence of matter out of consciousness also doesn't make either, why principal of individuation happened? Why singularity divided itself into a transcendental nightmare from the blessed calm of singularity? Mainländer's Death of God makes some sort of sense but even with God problem of circular reasoning arises. So I don't know.

>>19281443
No I haven't. I have just skimmed through it. But I can't believe in the idea of a "Good" God. Because this word is mostly garbage even if there is some beauty, and if he is real he is responsible for the ugliness.

>>19281506
Everyone becomes dogmatic when they open their mouths, this privilege isn't available to divided humanity who can't seem to shut the fuck up due to some reason. And I wish I was a NPC so I don't have to bear the weight of my wretched self and painful delusion of death contemplation which comes with it. Let's say I have made my own interpenetration of Silenus' wisdom and I don't give a shit about having an "accurate" interpenetration and having an approval stamp of some scholastic biblical authority. Also Nietzsche and Heraclitus both had no kids.

>19281518
Not fully but I am trying.

[Anonymous No.19281590]

>>19281281

Enjoying life is absurd. The dominance of pain is axiomatic, Rationally and experientially. What is the greatest "joy" that one can imagine? The answer can be polarized into two main categories: the Moral or social "joy", peace on Earth and such, and the bodily or individual "joy", ecstatic altered states and such. The latter already reveals the axiom since it equates "joy" with anesthetized or cretinous diminishing of experience, something categorically less than life as such, identical to the antinatalist argument, just quantitatively deficient. The former is simply absurd, to what degree would one experience a "joy" at all, let alone the greatest, if, say, the ideal of this joy was realized with one exception, a "Lovecraftian" intrusion would crush one's phalanges every day? A single instance of moderate or even minor pain would totally compromise an otherwise utopian abundance of "joy".

[Anonymous No.19281600]

>>19281506
>Absolute NPC.
>>19281582

402

To be reincarnated in a stone or a speck of dust – my soul weeps with this yearning.
I’m losing my taste for everything, including even my taste for finding everything tasteless.

Fernando Pessoa, The Book of Disquiet

[Anonymous No.19281653]

>>19281582
>Emergence of consciousness out of matter doesn't make any sense
Why not?
>if he is real he is responsible for the ugliness
Ugliness only exists in your perception

[Anonymous No.19281656]

>>19281582
The problem is not your ''interpretation'' of Silenus' wisdom, the problem is that you don't have one at all. You just excise an event of the myth, takes it literally and axiomatizes it, ignoring everything else. I already said what I needed to say, which you didn't even address (for it is clear you didn't understand). May God heal you.

[Anonymous No.19281697]

>>19281653
>Why not?
Consciousness by its definition is immaterial.
>Ugliness only exists in your perception
Spend few hours at >>>/gif/ and only watch rekt threads.

>>19281656
Blah blah christcuck scholastic authority blah blah blah

[Anonymous No.19281740]

>>19281697
>scholastic christcuck
And I didn't invoke anything related, lol.

What comforts me is that you will keep going, regardless. And this means that you'll still suffer, at each second of your life. Even if you muster the courage to eat a bullet, I can imagine the dread triggering physiological responses. This sentimentalism of yours in the end is just oversensitivity, you people still haven't suffered enough.

[Anonymous No.19281755]

>>19277456
the greeks meme is the one redemptive quality of the internet

[Anonymous No.19281779]

>life is so terrible, better to not birth
>b-but it's fine if youre already alive
Has there ever been any belief more transparently contrived than antinatialism

[Anonymous No.19281781]

>>19281740
Keep projecting your insecurities ye failed christcuck scholastic authority.

[Anonymous No.19281782]

>>19278500
>myth of silenus
>if you knew truth you’d kill your self right now
t alive

[Anonymous No.19281831]

>>19281779
Efilism is far worse
Just anti-natalism with a murderous edge to it, which may sound at first like they're more consistent in their beliefs at least, but then you realize that they also REALLY ought to kill themselves then

[Anonymous No.19281839]

>>19281697
>Spend few hours at >>>/gif/ and only watch rekt threads.
Anyone's perception will skew towards life being ugly if they routinely cover themselves in filth

[Anonymous No.19281887]

>>19281839
If those things seems distant to you then it doesn't mean that I will never happen to you or in your surroundings, life is absolutely brutal. Those people were just average human beings and it all happens on this planet that we all share. I really wish life wasn't like this because people suffer way too much but suffering is an objective truth of life. You should visit hospital, jails, courtrooms, mental hospitals, drugs ridden back streets, slums, graveyards etc. sometime and contemplate on these Truths. I can't seem to forget what I see in slums or hospitals in comparison to time in spend in park or enjoying little crumbs of beauty. My awareness of evil conquers the beauty like it's nothing.

[Anonymous No.19282011]

>>19281887
>hospitals
beauty of new life
>slums
the group that typically has the most kids?
that chooses life the most?
clearly they see something you don't

[Anonymous No.19282108]

>>19282011
>beauty of new life
They come and leave the same day. But people with prolonged suffering stay there and if you visit regularly you will start to recognize few dead faces waiting for their burial.
>the group that typically has the most kids?
>that chooses life the most?
Because for them there is only survival and have no privilege to think about larger philosophical questions from a high vantage point. I had a conversation with an anon who was from a poor family and he told to me that he has seen one of the most sincere and intelligent guy getting his soul killed after living in that shitshow for years and years. There is nothing there to learn except another domain of suffering.

[Anonymous No.19282145]

>>19281399
The Greeks we are referring to are white people who lived in your land a very long time ago

[Anonymous No.19283344]

>>19281582
>Emergence of consciousness out of matter doesn't make any sense. Emergence of matter out of consciousness also doesn't make either,

consider the possibility that the physical laws and content of this universe were designed to develop into intelligence. consider the possibility that this intelligence seeks to destroy itself on discovery of it's own origins

[Anonymous No.19283526]

>>19283344
This is absolutely retarded

[Anonymous No.19283574]

>>19283526
Explain the big bang

[Anonymous No.19284193]

>>19277775
turin horse incident disproves his entire philosophy

[Anonymous No.19284544]

>>19281740
Wow I’m not even a pessimist but damn…so triggered. Your supposed Nietzschean will to power failing when you meet with chaos keeps me going anon.

[Anonymous No.19284914]

>>19281656
>May God heal you.

Few moments later

>>19281740
>What comforts me is that you will keep going, regardless. And this means that you'll still suffer, at each second of your life. Even if you muster the courage to eat a bullet, I can imagine the dread triggering physiological responses. This sentimentalism of yours in the end is just oversensitivity, you people still haven't suffered enough.

The absolute state of "believers"

[Anonymous No.19284918]

>>19284914
How do you know they're the same anon?

[Anonymous No.19284922]

>>19284918
Match the prose style and follow the reply chain.

[Anonymous No.19285412]

>>19281505
>>19281590
>still no replies

The ABSOLUTE state...

[Anonymous No.19285428]

>>19284544
Nietzsche in Beyond Good and Evil wrote about that. The answer to the misery of pessimists is misery. You also seem like them with this oversensitivity.

[Anonymous No.19285434]

>>19284914
See >>19285428