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/lit/ - Literature

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19070294 No.19070294 [Reply] [Original]

Any literature on the human instrumentality project and related thing? Something where lots of humans combine into one big consciousess.
This is virtually what civilization attempts to do, put a lot of humans into one organism to achieve greatness and it's quite successful. It's what allowed us to get so good at music, math, physics and general culture. But it's way too flawed. I want something about complete unification of humans and how great it would be. Mortality is no longer a problem: all is one and one is all. A human dying would be like a skin cell dying in a human: no effect whatsoever for the larger organism. Imagine all civilizational achievements but multiplied by 100000x. It's the only way to transcend and start interacting with the more intelligent beings that live here on earth. If ants did that they would start to recognize humans as intelligent creatures with agency instead of random parts of the natural world.
Or maybe just some factions of humans uniting their consciousness like in the mafia, but 1000x more efficient and flawless. Most organized crime fails because someone steps out of order: they rat or rebel. If they hadn't that option, if the people in the organization were part of one larger consciousness this wouldn't occur, you would just have radically stronger, smarter and magnificent agents who could overpower any individual human any part of the day. Then you could have different such factions fighting for power, the defeated ones get unified into an even larger consciousness part of the winner. Kinda like agario.
I've never heard of any sci-fi book exploring any part of these ideas. Anyone have suggestions?

>> No.19070305

I know my post seems like a lot but I swear I'm not a schizo. You could ask specific questions about things I discuss and I will try my best to answer it clearly and rationally. It just seems like a lot.

>> No.19070314

Just wait until the Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Blu-Ray torrent comes out like everyone else dude.

>> No.19070322

Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke.

While it has nothing to do with Instrumentality, Steppenwolf gave me evangelion vibes, especially the ending.

>> No.19070331

>>19070294
Jesus christ that formatting

>> No.19070353

Humanity turning into a gestalt consciousness/hivemind is unironically a good thing.
The revelation of this century won’t be political, economic, scientific or technological in nature, it will be religious.
The only reason you’d think a gestalt consciousness is based is because you’ve been infected by the mind virus of individualism and cannot think out of the current zeitgeist.

>> No.19070370

>>19070353
>Humanity turning into a gestalt consciousness/hivemind is unironically a good thing.
It would be the best thing to ever happen to humanity and it's a thing I wish to happen more than anything else in the world. The trouble is how to achieve it?
>The revelation of this century won’t be political, economic, scientific or technological in nature, it will be religious.
What do you mean? Will the revelation be that the hivemind is a good thing? Or something else?
>The only reason you’d think a gestalt consciousness is based is because you’ve been infected by the mind virus of individualism and cannot think out of the current zeitgeist.
You said based. I think you meant bad, or cringe.

>> No.19070372

>>19070353
>Humanity turning into a gestalt consciousness/hivemind is unironically a good thing
Heraclitus was right

>> No.19070377

The movie planet of the apes teaches us that if the apes were more hive-minded they could easily defeat humans, no matter what our copes about being smarter are.

>> No.19070412
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19070412

>>19070294
>sci-fi.
You're doing it wrong. Start with anything else, faggot. Here's some tips:

Fourth Ennead - Plotinus
Selected Poems - Rābiʿa al-ʿAdawiyya al-Qaysiyya
The Conference of the Birds - Attar of Nishapur
The Mirror of Simple Souls - Marguerite Porete
Ribhu Gita
Selected Poems - Rumi
The Seven Valleys - Baháʼu'lláh

>> No.19070445

>>19070412
What do any of these works have to do with the themes in the OP?

>> No.19070691
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19070691

>>19070331
>Jesus christ that formatting
to be fair if you format it gets called r*dit spacing by retards

>>19070294
you are right and even underestimate the effect of instrumentality.

take space colonization. People only long for it cause it is the only thing they can imagine, our civilization but bigger, 10 trillions individuals instead of 8 billion, it´s almost laughable that this is where their fantasy ends.

also about the topic itself there are 3 concepts you need to keep in mind when talking about swarms or higher consciousness.
>being
the ability to separate yourself from the rest of the world by acting this separation out. Being is an active act, not an state.
>power
it has nothing to do with being but is maybe the most important part of it. Imagine cancer, it´s just one cell of you but you cant even act control out in your body. your potential of acting is limited but still comparatively huge to single cells
>feeling/sensing
the act of sensing yourself or your environment. With your body again as an example your senses are pretty emcompassing but in other facters lacking

you can view at many superstructures be it single cells,a single human, tribes or countries.


For example most countries are less than the sum of its parts and even less intelligent or aware than single cells, they are just big, an magnitude above us in the hierachy but nothing else. They cant even sense most things.

a single human is unironically kinda the peak at the moment. We can recreate a fraction of the world just by experiencing it.
Back to instrumentality.
The difference to other super structures is, that instrumentality is more than the sums of its parts. It takes the distinctions of individuals away so they stop making each other hurt. you basically brute force an spiritual awakening on them.

Tbh i never thought much about the kinds of instrumentality there are. The only ones i have in mind are pseudo mind control cults where all people act as one entity and can share information with each other, or the akira flesh mountain. And EVA instrumentality of course.


Also it´s ironic that you put EVA as an example, since Ano had Shinji reject it since he wants him to become a salary man so he can be acknowledged by society. it´s like seeing the light and lashing out angrily, calling it escapism.

>> No.19070793

>>19070314
It’s on Amazon Prime my nigga, but worst girl wins

>> No.19070804
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19070804

>>19070294
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's Noosphere and Omega Point concepts are essentially this. Also, Hegel I suppose but it's less about a singularity of consciousness and more about the world becoming unified through Logos as a self reflecting mirror of God (not some annihilationist oriental drivel ala NGE).

>> No.19070815

>>19070445
read and find out

>> No.19070836

I hate individualism so fucking much and I don't understand whats the appeal. Nihilism, fear of death, pointless suffering, cruelty are all results of individualism. Congratulations, you are free to live your measly 80 years with your measly single human IQ and your measly work-hours. Maybe you're genetically successful and get to have offspring to be embarrassed and disappointed by. All under the tyranny of the state and every other individual. A short, weak life of suffering, envy and hate. What is so valuable about you? Why do you value yourself more than other people? You came from the dust and to dust you will return. Even the most ardent individualists lie to themselves. They want to be recognized and liked by their community, they want to be part of something greater but wont admit it. The collective of individuals.

>> No.19070854

Is this what the jews meant by communism?

>> No.19070926

>>19070294
Asimov - The Last Question

>> No.19071114

>>19070322
>>19070926
Bad books, bad answers! Read More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon

>> No.19071131

>>19070412
uberbased

>> No.19071240

>>19070691
Nice plebbit spacing. Go back there.

>> No.19071620
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19071620

>>19070294
Eva is just weeb GR

>> No.19071652
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19071652

>>19071620
Yeah but Gravity's Rainbow doesn't have cute anime girls.

>> No.19071681

>>19070836
Conversely, why value others more than yourself?

There are downsides to individualism but on the other hand, Western individualism goes hand in hand with heroism, genius, fate, destiny, and individual greatness.

>> No.19072176

>>19070294
>>19072032
>>19072032

>> No.19072650

>>19070294
CCRU

>> No.19072670

>>19070294
I don’t know man, I liked Eva because it had cool robot fights and waifus.
>>19071652
Where’s mommy misato?

>> No.19072743

>Kinda like agario.
how would your techno civilization deal with the problem of teamers cheating by using meme fonts

>> No.19072818

>>19070353
Did you even watch End of Eva? How could you disagree with Shinji's decision.
it's unironically one of the most beautiful moments in cinema history

Shinji chooses to be human.

>> No.19072922

>>19072818
Not him but anti escapism messages in anime are always hypocritical.
>bro just choose to suffer
Thanks but no

>> No.19072927

Jung's 7 Sermons of the Dead.

His Pleroma is the Instrumentality Project.

>> No.19072933

>>19070353
>>19070370
t. SEELE

I refuse to dissolve into the tranny love slime ocean, I refuse. Instrumentality/anti-individuation is just gilded womb-lust.

>>19070836
American individualism =/= individuation. lol

>> No.19072936

>>19072818
>it's unironically one of the most beautiful moments in cinema history
t. not into, and has absolutely no real experience with, cinema

>> No.19072938

>>19072936
I've watched and enjoyed real cinema and I still consider EoE a masterpiece

>> No.19072942

>>19072938
stop lying to me and, more importantly, yourself

>> No.19073026

>>19072933
>Instrumentality/anti-individuation is just gilded womb-lust.
And? It's the natural progression/evolution of civilization. Civilization means denial of your individuality in service of the greater whole. Paying taxes, obeying laws, being in good relations with others, are all part of this. However, as it is now, it's not perfect. We would become so much more powerful, creative, intelligent and amazing if we genuinely unified.
>>19072922
There is nothing wrong with suffering per se, as long as you understand the meaning of your suffering as part of something greater. This is what allowed early christians and missionaries to endure torture, they saw themselves as part of God's divine plan and the suffering had meaning to them because it wasn't just the individual: weak, small and frail.
The problem is that in the modern day for the individual suffering is mostly meaningless.

>> No.19073036

>>19073026
>There is nothing wrong with suffering per se
Nah, I don't buy it. This is a cope. There is nothing wrong with escaping

>> No.19073044

>>19073026
So why would you WANT to consummate civilization's vampirism?

>> No.19073064

>>19071620
Is this actually true or is it just a meme? The only thing I've seen anyone post as evidence is that passage about moving buildings

>> No.19073089

>>19072942
I'm not impressed you watch Cocteau in a smelly apartment.

>> No.19073096

>>19073089
more like cockteau faggot

>> No.19073121

>>19073064
Read it and find out!

>> No.19073279

>>19073121
No thanks.

>> No.19073659

>>19070294
>humans
Go unify with reddit

>> No.19073713

>>19070294
>Any literature on the human instrumentality project and related thing? Something where lots of humans combine into one big consciousess.

The Empty Man, based on a graphic novel, is a horror movie that gets into these issues. It's pretty good.

>> No.19074454

>>19070412
>Selected Poems - Rābiʿa al-ʿAdawiyya al-Qaysiyya

>> No.19074465

No joke: Atomised, Houellebecq

>> No.19074489

>>19072936
I can almost guarantee I've seen more of classic film than you.
It was pretty much the only media I consumed for 4 years.

Cope.

>> No.19074494

>>19072922
choosing suffering over a dream is what makes it meaningful and great.
It sounds like a pretty simple idea but with the buildup of the entire show it's fantastic.

>> No.19074571

The second resurrection from Dante and the Bible

>> No.19074805
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19074805

>>19070294
my diary desu

>> No.19074810

>>19070294
>It's quite successful
Uh oh. He is part of the symbiote.

>> No.19074811

>>19074489
>4 years
lmao shut the fuck up newfag, lurk moar

>> No.19074819

>>19070353
Buddy, humanity has been trying to "become one with God" since the beginning. If you think this is a new idea, you have fallen for the trap. Do you think these attempts at ascension have really put us in a good world?

>> No.19074820

>>19070294
>NOOOOOOOOO I'M A FUCKING SCHIZO I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FORMAT MY POSTS IT'S MY SCHIZOPHRENIA GUYS
just stop posting you cretin

>> No.19074884

>>19070305
>I know my post seems like a lot but I swear I'm not a schizo.
No, you don't look like a schizo, you look like a child. The whole category of "instrumentality" was debunked by cybernetics and post-modern (non humanistic) philosophy.
Anyway, if you want to read about instrumentality, I would recommend you brainlets like Heidegger and Benjamin (both of them worthless).

>> No.19074892

>>19074884
also by maths from the XIX and XX, and XX century physics.

>> No.19074902

>>19074811
I was watching it before and after that as well retard, just alongside other stuff. Learn to read.

>> No.19075334

>>19073659
I would if I had the option.
>>19074884
>The whole category of "instrumentality" was debunked by cybernetics and post-modern (non humanistic) philosophy
How? What's the debunk?
>>19074892
>also by maths from the XIX and XX, and XX century physics.
How? I probably already know way more maths than you ever will.

>> No.19075383

>>19075334
Instrumentality is transcendent and teleological, whilist all agency is immanent and immediate (the medium and the process are continuously produced and interwoven to the point of consistency).

>How? I probably already know way more maths than you ever will
I doubt it... maybe you are a stem bugman. If you really knew maths you wouldn't be writting stuff as logically cringy as the post that opened this thread.

>> No.19075417

>>19075383
>If you really knew maths you wouldn't be writting stuff as logically cringy as the post that opened this thread.
What's logically cringy about my post?

>> No.19076688

bump