fascism

[Anonymous No.18975113]

Which book made you a fascist or significantly enforced your fascist views? I am interested in studying fascism, what are some interesting books you'd recommend me to start with? Doesn't have to be directly related to fascism, but also near topics like traditionalism, nationalism etc

[Anonymous No.18975132]

>>18975113
Some fat bitch with purple hair called me a fascist for wanting to have a nation so I just went with it. Haven't read any books on the subject.

[Anonymous No.18975155]

>>18975132
I am not talking about fascism as in the leftist definition of it. I am not talking about so called trump's "fascism".

[Anonymous No.18975189]

>>18975113
>Which book made you a fascist or significantly enforced your fascist views?
None, I'm not a brainlet to be a fascist.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18975209]

>>18975155
They’re authoritarian statists. All perspectives can see that.
They come from a long line of western liars. Just lie to yourself like the first post and you’re done. The bible through a fascist lens, history books through a fascist lens, Adam Smith through a fascist lens, etc. there’s nothing particularly deep about them, they’re just murderous machismo turned up to eleven. …or dialed back in some cases, sure.

[Anonymous No.18975219]

>>18975209
The fuck are you rambling about?

[Anonymous No.18975227]

>>18975113
Fascism is the true ideology of the masses and the proletariat

[Anonymous No.18975228]

op is 13 years old and just finished screaming his little lungs out at a hoi4 game

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18975244]

>>18975219
A tactic of the liberal state when it is in danger of a popular revolt.

[Anonymous No.18975245]

>>18975228
No, and I am not a fascist. Just interested to learn this topic thoroughly, because I can see that it's very misunderstood and people using fascism as mockery don't even know what they're talking about.

[Anonymous No.18975259]

>>18975244
Fascism was popular in all the places where was implemented

[Anonymous No.18975261]

Start with Thomas777

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18975265]

>>18975259
No
Here’s that ever present component of lies

[Anonymous No.18975268]

>>18975113
>I am interested in studying fascism
Be careful. Studying an ideology can lead to sympathizing with it if you are not careful, fascism especially.

>I’m just studying it bro
Cool, just be careful. This is not an ideology like liberalism or communism which the state and society will tolerate or encourage. It is dangerous, and should you become a fascist you will be dealt with, far harsher than any other radical would be (and rightfully so). Just my two cents.

[Anonymous No.18975276]

[Anonymous No.18975288]

>>18975244
>le capital in decline
>capitalist and bolsheviks team up to physically destroy fascism and NS
>then proceed to built up a political, legally and morally system to completely oppose Fascism in every possible form
All OP needs to know is that Third Position is just a continuation of the Right post Enlightenment. Both tankies, soc dem ands liberals and leftist retards

On side not Keith Woods is gonna debate some tankie on this in a few days. Make sure to tune in

[Anonymous No.18975303]

>>18975268
>Just my two cents
you mean shekels?

[Anonymous No.18975312]

>>18975288
>tankie vs fash debate
Ugh. To the wall with both of 'em.

[Anonymous No.18975325]

>>18975312
>Ugh. To the wall with both of 'em.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18975328]

>>18975288
>Stalin
>Not a fascist
Like I mentioned already, they rise up to quash the people’s movements every time.

[Anonymous No.18975331]

>>18975268
I don't know where you live but there is no thought crimes in my country, at least yet.
>like communism which the state and society will tolarate
this is so fucking hypocrite but probably you're right. Also I couldn't care less if I start to sympathize with fascism, as I already do a little bit at least on cultural issues. Economically I have the biggest disagreements with fascists at the moment.

[Anonymous No.18975339]

>>18975288
>tankies
who are these?

[Anonymous No.18975342]

>>18975265
but it was though? it was literally a populist movement that garnered massive support by appealing to the masses

[Anonymous No.18975344]

Modern Fascism is a meme. What has once been a ferocious emerging movement is now reduced to a cope for angry white men online still living with their parents. The 20th movement that most clearly represented a white identity has been ridiculed and vilified beyond any possibility of recovery. As a white person, I am looking forward to the demographic decline of my race as important geopolitical force and I encourage race mixing. FUCK racism.

[Anonymous No.18975350]

>politics thread
>OP asks for books on a specific topic
>the thread is nothing but sperglords shitting themselves
Can't even blame /pol/ on that one, butters is a homegrown talent.

[Anonymous No.18975353]

>>18975328
Butters you should read 200 Years Together
>>18975339
Far left Westerners w sympathies for the USSR
mostly very silly college students

[Anonymous No.18975358]

>>18975344
>As a White person

[Anonymous No.18975364]

>>18975328
Yeah Stalin after WW2 was based. Soviets adopted because he wanted the state to survive. Marxism failed because class is a spook while tribe is not.
Yockey made this clear

[Anonymous No.18975366]

>>18975344
>The 20th movement that most clearly represented a white identity
more white people opted to rise up and fight fascism rather than adopting it

[Anonymous No.18975383]

>>18975366
you mean got tricked into fighting men theyd otherwise agree with because of propaganda
wasn't the united states racist sexist and homophobic mr systemlib? Why would they disagree with nazism?

[Anonymous No.18975396]

>>18975344
>As a white person
Lmao
>>18975113
Just read 100 questions asked and answered by Oswald Mosley, OP. If you're interested then read other Mosley work and Mussolini.

[Anonymous No.18975404]

>>18975383
>you mean got tricked into fighting men theyd otherwise agree with because of propaganda
oh i see. damn wide-eyed wypipo getting bamboozled over and over again, innocent little babes. it's like charlie brown and the football

[Anonymous No.18975411]

>>18975219
The triptard imagines it’s possible to build a stateless utopia where it wouldn’t wind up trading its fuckholes for scraps of food

[Anonymous No.18975413]

>>18975383
>wasn't the united states racist sexist and homophobic mr systemlib? Why would they disagree with nazism?
peek Angloid take
Fascism is when you do a racism

[Anonymous No.18975415]

>>18975404
haha yeah so funny when governments lie and kill millions of people lol

[Anonymous No.18975416]

>>18975383
>you mean got tricked into fighting men theyd otherwise agree with because of propaganda
this applies to every war in human history

[Anonymous No.18975418]

>>18975344
Yikerinos!

[Anonymous No.18975426]

>>18975415
like the nazis?

[Anonymous No.18975430]

>>18975426
what did they lie about?

[Anonymous No.18975436]

>>18975113
/lit/roons itt
And OP, if you’re looking for fascist theory, you’re already starting wrong. Fascism is an ideology of practice, not of mental masturbation from an academic’s office

[Anonymous No.18975449]

>>18975426
lel you're going to have to elaborate on that. national socialism was an open book that was quite explicit about its intentions

[Anonymous No.18975481]

>>18975113
Listen to Bowden’s talks, many of them are even /lit/ related

[Anonymous No.18975492]

>>18975481
Angloid manchild that reads superhero comic books as a cope. You will NEVER by a dominant man.

[Anonymous No.18975511]

>>18975430
>haha we're totally not reestablishing our armed forces in secret, what are you talking about :D
>haha no we're not taking *all* of czechoslovakia, juuust this tiny bit around the edge here
>haha no we're definitely not going to barge through the benelux again, that'd be crazy lol
>haha no we have no plans of invading the soviet union, we signed a pact silly :P
>haha no we're not rounding up and killing loads of people in occupied territories, shut up :$
>haha no we're not exterminating people through labor in service of the failing war effort, on god doe no cap

[Anonymous No.18975515]

>>18975492
Did he really

[Anonymous No.18975525]

>>18975511
Those are not lies, they are based tactics.

[Anonymous No.18975531]

>>18975511
>theyre liars because they dont publicly announce their geopolitical strategies, same as every other nation on earth

[Anonymous No.18975548]

>>18975511
So your criticism is that they lied to their enemies for strategic gain? And what, killed some partisans?
>exterminating people through labor
lol
This is very weak criticism when compared to what happened in Allied countries where the governments had to drag the population by their ears to manufacture the support for war. I think you just don't know the history and have a fixation on "NAZIS BAD!"
you stink like /his/

[Anonymous No.18975567]

>>18975548
seriously though, national socialists never lied to their own people, meanwhile America straight up orchestrated the pearl harbor attack to push their own people into a war 95% of people didn't want

[Anonymous No.18975582]

>>18975567
There's that but also look into how it went in the UK. It was incredibly unpopular, nobody wanted a repeat of the last war's 'victory'. France was fallen, London was being bombed, the Japanese took Singapore and sank British fleets. It all seems moot in retrospect because of the role the Soviets would come to play but the British perspective early in the war was fucking bleak.

[Anonymous No.18975583]

>>18975331
>Economically I have the biggest disagreements with fascists at the moment
what are your disagreements?

[Anonymous No.18975634]

>>18975113
I am the foremost authority of Fascism what specifically about it do you want to learn about? For beginners I'd start with A. James Gregor's "Interpretations of Fascism".

>>18975209
If you want to enforce your worldview on people "authoritarian statism" is inevitable. Even if you you are an anarchist who wants to overthrow governments some form of authoritarianism is inevitable. Revolution is inherently authoritarian.

>>18975244
Where was the popular revolt in Italy at the time? There was no such thing because in the Socialist Party of Italy the only revolutionaries were the syndicalists wing who ended up creating the Fascist Party and the communist wing who ended up creating the Communist Party.

>>18975342
It was "popular" but not a "populist" movement.

[Anonymous No.18975647]

>>18975567
So based. A government that lies to their own people is the best kind of government

[Anonymous No.18975680]

>>18975331
>on cultural issues
If you have a meme understanding of Fascism and you agree with it on "cultural issues" then you are most certainly wrong because Fascism has never been a bastion of "traditional values". There was a strained relationship with it at best.

[Anonymous No.18975685]

>>18975634
they may not have supported democracy but they without a doubt appealed to "the people" with their rhetoric and policy. at the very least, if not populists them selves, they certainly built on the preexisting populist movements

[Anonymous No.18975698]

Why attracts people to failed doctrines from the past?

[Anonymous No.18975717]

liberty or equality by erik von kuehneldt leddihn

it's not a fascist book at all, but it is a teardown of democracy, which is an essential part of fascism or authoritarian thought, i believe.

[Anonymous No.18975718]

>>18975680
>Fascism has never been a bastion of "traditional values".
It always had, and don't even dare to bring up Marinetti and D'Annunzio as an argument

[Anonymous No.18975726]

>>18975685
Wrong on both accounts.

Mussolini only ever spoke ill of representative democracy, the kind in the United States at the time. He called Fascism "autocracy on the road to democracy", the kind of Democracy they would support would be the Direct Democracy found in Ancient Hellenes.

PNF's appeal to the masses through rhetoric was just that, rhetoric. This is just how politics worked in Italy at the time where it wasn't so much as policy that was important but the leader.

If we want to hold Fascists accountable for everything they said then we might as well say Fascism supported giving the vote for women, radical for 1919. Obviously they only said this because then they were fringe and only thus appealed to the fringe elements of Italian society at the time.

>>18975718
How was it? Please explain.

[Anonymous No.18975770]

>>18975718
>don't even dare to bring up Marinetti and D'Annunzio as argument
>don't even dare bring up the origin of Fascism as an argument.

what a retard

[Anonymous No.18975771]

>>18975718
Wasn't Mussolini an anti-clergy socialist atheist?
D'Annunzio, Marinetti, Marconi, Futurism?
C'mon, appealing the Christian Religious values was just a populist move but those people were more smarter than we think of them

[Anonymous No.18975787]

>>18975771
you're not going to persecute the clergy or the nobility in a traditional catholic society like Italy without causing a civil war. disrupting unity was everything the Fascists were against, Italy had then barely been united for just over half a century.

[Anonymous No.18975794]

>>18975787
Yes that was what I mean, as an Italian son of a catholic fascist

[Anonymous No.18975808]

>>18975794
yeh i was just restating what you said. the fascists from my understanding did what they could to appease everyone's concerns. that's why mussolini was in power for two decades. joining the war and betting on german victory screwed him over in the end.

the spanish civil war is an example of what happens when all groups attempt to fight for dominance, and the result was a weakened and destroyed spain.

[Anonymous No.18975817]

>>18975698
>if only society was shitty for everyone and not just me

[Anonymous No.18975820]

>>18975113
Hirohito is a fascist now? Is everything that existed before the domination of the allies in 1945 fascist? If it’s not explicitly western liberalism or communism, it’s fascist. Is that right?

[Anonymous No.18975825]

>>18975808
>betting on german victory
Mussolini was very skeptical of Hitler, he wanted to join in an alliance with France and UK which refused.

[Anonymous No.18975833]

>>18975820
lel, masses of people are literally proclaiming america is a christian fascist state because texas banned abortions passed 6 weeks. these people deliberately strip words of their meaning in order to force a message

[Anonymous No.18975834]

>>18975825
after the nullification of the stresa front? i read party members were urging him not to join Hitler, even D'Annunzio was telling him not to do it.

[Anonymous No.18975835]

>>18975825
Also all the real fascist I know (old people who lived under fascism) are all against Hitler.
The only fascists who likes Hitler are the new wannabes "traditional" ones

[Anonymous No.18975856]

>>18975834
Yes but he would have been invaded,
Like hitler would be invaded by URSS if he didn't invade as first but people are blind they think that if Hitler didn't attack Russia Russia wouldn't attack first

[Anonymous No.18975859]

I wish Moot got rid of /pol/ when he had the chance

[Anonymous No.18975865]

>>18975833
if actual fascism was ever implemented americans would think it was communism.

[Anonymous No.18975881]

>>18975865
Mussolini was anticapitalist but once he got in power he had dealt with the industrial powers of italy (northern industrials).
My history teacher used to ask us what part of the fascist ideology did Mussolini ripped of and we eventually answer with anticapitalism

[Anonymous No.18975900]

>>18975881
how do you mean when you say "dealt with" and "ripped of" with the capitalists? it's not so clear sounding in english.

from my understanding at the time in 1939, the only country with more state ownership than Italy was the USSR

[Anonymous No.18975926]

>>18975900
Ripped off "anticapitalism" from the fascist ideology

The whole industry in italy was in the hands of aristocrats (like Agnelli) you have to deal with them or the country will eventually stop producing.
This didnt happen in Russia but the communist revolution was a strange case.
In fact how the fuck did the Workers go against industry if there were none?
This is an interesting point of Leninism, forced industrialization after the revolution

[Anonymous No.18975929]

>>18975856
>Yes but he would have been invaded,
not by hitler. for hitler it was paramount to invade the ussr as soon as possible. mussolini would have been neutral against german ambitions after anschluss.

if germans invaded italy the italians would have fought to the bitter end and it would have been a bloodbath. not worth it for hitler whose primary strength was his panzer army.

[Anonymous No.18975954]

>>18975833
It’s a clever sleight of hand that the left has pulled. I’ve noticed that even old school communists are now slowly being tossed into the “fascist” category as well. I suppose things were always headed this way.

[Anonymous No.18975959]

>>18975926
aha to "rip off" in english means to steal or plagiarize.

>From 1935 onwards the state’s role in industrial
financing, raw material allocation, the replacement of imported by homeproduced materials, and direct control of major industries increased. By 1939 it controlled over four-fifths of Italy’ s shipping and shipbuilding, three-quarters of her pig-iron production and almost half that of steel. This level of state intervention greatly surpassed that in Nazi Germany, giving Italy a public sector second only to that of Stalin’s Russia.

It was their private sector which there was monopoly on

>The difference lay, of course, in the survival in Italy of an increasingly concentrated private sector: for example, two firms, Montecatini and SNIA Viscosa, monopolized the entire chemical industry. Powerful private interests may have mistrusted the state’s growing role, not to mention the dangerous purposes towards which Italy’s still uneven economic resources were by the late 1930s being directed. They were nevertheless too compromised to extricate themselves from a system that continued to benefit them.

Source is from M. Blinkhorn: Mussolini and Fascist Italy

From my understanding the Fascist logic in not expropriating all of the private sector was that they were needed to modernize Italy.

[Anonymous No.18975971]

>>18975209
>>18975244
>>18975265
>butterskank
Didn't read your drivel

[Anonymous No.18976011]

>>18975113
No book in particular, the same way no book made me believe in God or made me love my family
The only fascist book i read that were written by fascist were the Anthology of Jose Antonio, and than later Mein Kampf
But there are a lot of writers that later in life influenced my political tought, like Carl Jung, Heidegger, Nietzsche, Hegel, Carl Schmit, Max Weber
desu more or less most of my opinions were formed like this, i remember some redditor asking me for souces on why being a troon isnt an authentic way of life and he was baffled when i said that its from Kierkegaards Sickness upon Death. "Kierkegaard didnt talk about troons!!!!!!" does he has to for you to understand? The same goes for fascism, Hegels and Heideggers philosophy of society and self-consciousness for me is the core of fascist philosophy of society
Luthers philosophy of society also, some also see Platos State as a possible basis for fascism

[Anonymous No.18976025]

>>18976011
>The only fascist book i read that were written by fascist were two non fascist

[Anonymous No.18976060]

>>18976025
>Only italian fascism is fascism
no
also, OP pic includes Hitler

[Anonymous No.18976079]

>>18976060
then you might as well say lenin was fascist. stupid thing to say. both those people you listed had nothing in common with mussolini's regime outside the most shallow things.

if you wanted to list actual non intalian fascists it'd people ledesma ramos' JONS or Mosley's BUF, the former being a lot closer in ideology to Musso. than mosley

[Anonymous No.18976087]

>>18975189
> I'm not a brainlet to be a fascist.
fascism is the only right way

cuckold

[Anonymous No.18976108]

>>18976079
>both those people you listed had nothing in common with mussolini's regime outside the most shallow things
Again Mussolini =/= Only fascist
Its like saying the US isnt a democracy since it has nothing in common with ancient Athens, and also its plain out wrong to say that Falangism and National socialism have nothing in common with Italian fascism
Fascism is the third position between liberal democracies and communism, both who claim that there is one solution and one way that can be implemented into every society. Fascism which has its focus on the uniqueness of every nation takes in the needs, was it historical, cultural and political of the nation, thats why Italian fascist were moralist, Persian SUMKA were secular; Belgian Rexist were monarchists, de Rivera Falangism was anti monarchist etc. If only Italian fascism is fascism than fascism is dead since only Italy is Italian and there is no point in forcing a foreign policy on your nation

[Anonymous No.18976109]

Read these for fascist economics
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

Read Zeev Sternhell and A James Gregor for how fascism is a continuation of socialism on a national basis but without the cult of degeneracy.

[Anonymous No.18976118]

Everyone should read Codreanu

[Anonymous No.18976119]

>>18976108
>Again Mussolini =/= Only fascist
again not democracy and not communism =/= fascism
the rest of your post shows just how incredibly misinformed you are so I have no desire to respond.

[Anonymous No.18976143]

>>18976108
retarded post.
it would only be fascist politically if it was actually similar to the politics of italian fascism which none of those parties were. italian fascism wasn't "moralist" either dummy.

the only time fascism could be "fascism" when policy radically differed from actual fascism (yourself retardedly lumping together monarchism and anti-monarchism as fascism) would be if the party philosophy was based in actualism.

>Fascism which has its focus on the uniqueness of every nation takes in the needs, was it historical, cultural and political of the nation
like anon said by this very logic lenin's vanguard was a fascist movement.

stupid post

[Anonymous No.18976167]

>>18976119
>again not democracy and not communism =/= fascism
should have just said that you are too retarded to understand the political state of the early 20th century
>>18976143
>yourself retardedly lumping together monarchism and anti-monarchism as fascism
So if you advocate for or against monarchism than you arent a fascist anymore? Retard
>like anon said by this very logic lenin's vanguard was a fascist movement
No since they are communist, fascism is anticommunist, they arent nationalist but internationalist and they are marxist not corporatist. Its like you are being retarded on purpose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1934_Montreux_Fascist_conference#:~:text=The%201934%20Montreux%20Fascist%20conference,December%201934%20in%20Montreux%2C%20Switzerland.

Huh looks like the Belgian "monarchists" and Spanish "antimonarchists" were present on the Fascist international conference, guess they wandered there by mistake?

[Anonymous No.18976168]

>>18975227
>fascism
>appealing to "proletariat"
ngmi

[Anonymous No.18976179]

>>18976168
Hitler did more for workers rights than Stalin

[Anonymous No.18976189]

>>18975113
Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism.
>>18975132
Nationalism, fascism, they're different but both trash.
>>18975209
Authoritarian statism is not enough to define fascism. I am opposed to state communism (Marxism-Leninism[-Maoism] etc.) but I don't believe they're truly fascist, though the line seems to become increasingly blurred. Palingenic, authoritarian, and revolutionary nationalism is a better definition but still not perfect.

>>18975244
This definition has no currency outside of certain Marxist circles

>>18975245
I don't feel comfortable giving fascist recommendations since I'm opposed to fascism, but Giovanni Gentile was the 'philosopher of fascism' and he tried very hard to systematize an actual ideology out of it. What's important to remember is none of the higher-up fascists gave a single fuck, and none of the lower-down fascists gave a single fuck. He, like most fascist writers, only appealed to a very small subset of middle-class intellectuals swept up in turn-of-the-century modernism and were rightfully left in the grave during the post-war era, which was the dawn of post-modernism.

>>18975268
>Studying an ideology can lead to sympathizing with it
Only if you're a suggestible brainlet.
>This is not an ideology like liberalism or communism which the state and society will tolerate or encourage
This is such an ill-informed position. Liberalism, maybe, but Western powers consider green anarchists (ALF, ELF, etc.) to be the single-most dangerous domestic terrorist threat today. That might have changed since the George Floyd riots but that was definitely true 15 years ago.
>>18975328
Stalin was as bad as a fascist but he wasn't a fascist in any meaningful sense.
>>18975344
Obvious bait but the first three sentences are spot-on. To deform Foucault: fascism is like a fish, it can't exist outside of early 20th century modernism. Fascism was deeply influenced by Romantic nationalism, revolutionary socialism, and industrialization. Those three pillars have long fallen. Romantic nationalism gave way to an increasingly connected world, revolutionary socialism failed, and industrialization has entered an intensified, clearly destructive, and increasingly alienated phase.

>>18975634
>some form of authoritarianism is inevitable
Only if you play semantic games about what 'authoritarianism' means. 'Authority' is ill-defined in fascism and has a specialist definition in anarchism. We are clearly not talking about the same things.
>Where was the popular revolt in Italy at the time?

>"When in 1922 the general strike against Fascism broke out, the democratic government armed the Fascist hordes and throttled this last attempt at the defence of freedom and right. But Italian democracy had dug its own grave. It thought it could use Mussolini as a tool against the workers, but thus it became its own grave-digger.

[Anonymous No.18976200]

Jared Taylor White Identity
Francis Yockey Imperium

[Anonymous No.18976207]

>>18975209
Kys troon
>>18976189
Eco is a retard
Ur-fascism is just "fascism mean hating the women, also being rude and everything that i dislike"

[Anonymous No.18976215]

>>18976168
workers don't want the insane utopian social agenda the far left offers, nobody does. People want families, they want existing institutions, they want faith. Communism's only appeal to the normal person is purely material, so what good are you if there is a right wing faction that will support worker's right and better pay?

[Anonymous No.18976220]

>>18976168
These are the demands of Codreanu in parliament, this is why he got killed by the corrupt liberal state which was in the pocket of bankers and industrialists.

>WE DEMAND the introduction of the death penalty, exclusively for the fraudulent manipulators of public funds.

>WE DEMAND the revision and confiscation of the fortunes of those that fleeced their poor country.

>WE DEMAND the calling to account of the politicians that have been proven to have worked against the country, supporting fraudulent private dealings.

>WE DEMAND the future obstruction of political persons that have been proven to have worked against the country, supporting fraudulent private dealings.

>WE DEMAND the future obstruction of political persons to take part in administration councils of various banks and institution.

>WE DEMAND the ejection of the droves of merciless exploiters who came to this land to exploit the riches of the soil and the labor of our arms.

>WE DEMAND that the Romanian territory be declared an inalienable and imprescriptible property of the Romanian Nation.

3) To declare war on misery and general poverty, putting the good to
work and to temperance, sending the parasitical elements to work by
force, which play the sluggard role in the hive of the state, all the
slothful, who watch the coffee shop tables from dawn till dusk, the bored
ones who wander the streets, all the electoral agents from city halls,
prefect’s offices, ministries, the democratic ideologues who wish to keep
cheap discourses.

4) To abolish all that is parasitism on the worn-out body of the
country, to raise up, organize and stimulate the creative energies of the
people.

5) To abolish dishonesty and confiscate the riches of the guilty,
bringing the stolen money back to the state coffers, to the last dime.

6) To take charge of the large destitute mass, for better or for worse, to
eat of the same brown bread and the same poor meal that the
downtrodden worker eats. That in these harsh times, moral filth,
unequal treatment harms much more than material filth. Some live in
luxury, with champagne and caviar and others don ’t even have polenta,
under the people-loving democratic regime.

10) To raise from the ground up the new ethnic national state, to be
based upon national culture, family and worker corporations.

Ezra Pound:
>As far as financial morals are concerned, I should say that from being a country where practically everything and anything was for sale, Mussolini has in ten years transformed it into a country where it would even be dangerous to try to buy out the government.

[Anonymous No.18976221]

>>18975344
China has more in common with fascism than it does liberalism

highly homogenous, majority han dominate minorities
Authoritarian nationalist government with limited free market and SOE
Non-diverse companies full of boards of han chinese males
tech companies are pretty much 99% han chinese male

It btfos all libtard theory
- Democracy is only government a wealthy country can have. Muh "cant fight history" theory elites had about China
- Diversity is strength/Social Justice progressivism, Chinese companies shit on this
- Must have degenerate culture glorifying filth. They banned rap, LGBT on TV, justin bieber, restrictions on video game time, and encourage children to join military or educate themselves rather than promote consumerist entertainment

China is basically /pol/ government but chinese

[Anonymous No.18976227]

>>18976221
China is a technocratic bourgeois oligarchy, it's a robber baron junta ruling over a dehumanized mass who don't even know what it means to be Chinese.

[Anonymous No.18976230]

>>18976221
Let's just all keep in mind that the Chinese govt has lifted more people out of poverty in the last few decades than probably any in history and created a middle class of like 400 million. This was done with foreign capital, granted, but the fact remains.

[Anonymous No.18976231]

>>18976167
i don't know why I am even responding to someone whos understanding of fascism comes from mein kampf and the falange.

First of all the fact that there was a "fascist congress" proves nothing. There was many members of the international communist congress, all of which who hold radically different views. There were communists, anarchists, syndicalists, socialists, social democrats: all in the communist international. But they're "all the same" huh? which is why they kill eachother in every conflict?

Second, lenin's vanguard, in genealogy, has far more in common with italian fascism than any of the other party's you listed.

Third, Fascism was "anti communist" in so far as it was convenient for the political situation for the fascists at the time. If Fascism was anti communist full stop Mussolini would not enlist the help of communists like niccolo bombacci. That he imprisoned political opponents who happened to be communists is not proof of an innate anti-communism of fascism.

Fascists on the Fascist Party of Mexico:
>This party was not anything else than a bad imitation of ours, and did not possess the causes of origin and the finalities of it. It, in fact, assumed the aspect of a political movement tending to gather in the whole country old conservative and Catholic forces dispersed by the revolution, and to form, in this way, a party clearly opposed to the actual government.

I wonder how they would bave opened their mouth if alliances of convenience were not necessary in Europe.

>>18976189
A strike is not a revolution. Even Engels acknowledged revolution is inherently authoritarian. Unless you are some weird anarchist, which if you were you're obviously not going to get anywhere.

I should stop coming on this website, it's filled with brainlets.

[Anonymous No.18976241]

>>18976168
do you even know what fascism is?

[Anonymous No.18976252]

Reality made me a racist and antisemite not books. I'm also a staunch antifascist and have no sympathy for bootlickers.

[Anonymous No.18976262]

>>18976207
first reply:
>"lol guys, i'm le rude! XD"
second reply:
>"why do they call us rude...?"

[Anonymous No.18976269]

>>18976262
i think the point is that calling something rude isn't a good criticism sweatie

[Anonymous No.18976271]

>>18976207
Something tells me you probably haven't read Eco
>>18976231
You didn't say 'revolution,' you said 'popular revolt,' which were common in Europe after WWI. I don't care about revolution ultimately, I care about insurrection.
>Unless you are some weird anarchist, which if you were you're obviously not going to get anywhere.
You act like I want to go anywhere. Progress is bullshit. If utopia is not here now we will never have it. Fascism, state communism, and political ideologies will never work.

[Anonymous No.18976284]

>>18976271
The point isn't to a create utopia you fucking midwit fag. It won't 'work', what does that even mean? What do you mean by work? They all work in their own way, the question is over which is more suitable for the time and place.

[Anonymous No.18976286]

>>18976271
>You didn't say 'revolution,' you said 'popular revolt,'
Revolt as opposed to revolution? A popular revolt IS a revolution.
>I don't care about revolution ultimately, I care about insurrection
The gap between Blanquism and Fascism can be crossed over with one step.
>>18976284
This.

[Anonymous No.18976293]

Living around non-whites made me fascist. Before that I was a lib left who thought all non-white cultures were amazing and like, so spiritual ya know?

[Anonymous No.18976297]

There's nothing wrong with white nationalism. The US was white nationalist for most of it's history. The founders of this country were European and the majority of settlers were English or German descent along with French, Italians, Irish, Poles, and other Europeans.

[Anonymous No.18976299]

>>18976252
Based

[Anonymous No.18976302]

>>18976230
And all it took was becoming as statist and capitalist as possible (the two things commies insist communism is not). How curious...

[Anonymous No.18976309]

>>18976231
Cope, seethe and dilate Italianigger
Mussolini wasnt even the inventor of Fascism, he coopted DAnuzzios movement
Just like how England invented a bunch of sports and now sucks at them so did fascism come from Italy in its, atleast now, most laughable state. Mussolini later on starte copying Hitler and his movement. Also i like how you twist me saying "the only fascist authors" to "the only things on fascism"

[Anonymous No.18976317]

>>18976167
>posts fascist international
>results of the fascist international
>The CAUR did not win official endorsement from the Italian Fascist Party or the Spanish Falange. It was unsuccessful either to present a commonly agreed definition as to what "fascism" was or to unite most major fascist parties into one international movement.
Fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.18976326]

>>18976284
>The point isn't to a create utopia you fucking midwit fag
They're grand narratives and posit their own end-of-history. I do not believe in grand narratives, whether it's the struggle of races and states (social darwnism), progress towards a libertarian society, or the dialectical unfolding towards communism. At their base they are utopian ideologies.

>>>18976286
>Revolt as opposed to revolution? A popular revolt IS a revolution.
Clearly this has become a semantic argument, but I'll bit. A revolution is just that -- a 're-volution', a 'return' in a certain sense. Generally when revolutions are discussed it's in terms of overthrow, regime change, national liberation, et al. 'Popular revolt' is a specialized definition which is less ambiguous. Clearly the civil unrest seen in interwar Europe was a popular revolt as were the various peasant insurrections seen at the end of the medieval period. Neither were successful.

>The gap between Blanquism and Fascism can be crossed over with one step.
This is totally irrelevant, I'm an anarchist. I don't believe in organized revolution at all, not by a professional cadre or reified 'masses.'
From Stirner: "The Revolution aimed at new arrangements; insurrection leads us no longer to let ourselves be arranged, but to arrange ourselves, and sets no glittering hopes on 'institutions'. It is not a fight against the established, since, if it prospers, the established collapses of itself; it is only a working forth of me out of the established. If I leave the established, it is dead and passes into decay." I rely on no one for my own liberation.

[Anonymous No.18976328]

>>18976317
>ONLY ITALIAN FASCIST ARE FASCIST!!!!
>Post proof of other movements being fascist
>THATS NOT PROOF BECAUSE THEY WERENT SUCESSFUL!!!! NOOO NOT MY HECKING MUSSOLINO
kys

[Anonymous No.18976331]

>>18975113
fascism is based on spooks. "nations" arent a real thing

[Anonymous No.18976332]

>>18976309
>illiterate retard spergs out
The only think Mussolini co'opted from D'Anunnzino was aesthetics like the salute and the idealization of roman times. The fascist party came into existence 4 years before the fiume endeavor.
>Also i like how you twist me saying "the only fascist authors" to "the only things on fascism"
You don't know anything besides memes

[Anonymous No.18976340]

>>18976328
>these people don't agree on anything
>but they're fascists broooooo
Idiot

[Anonymous No.18976342]

>>18976331
Say that to the IRS or the border control
>>18976332
>You don't know anything besides memes
You literally said nothing except "thats not fascist because i said so, also Lenin is more fascist because i said so"

[Anonymous No.18976343]

>>18975358
>>18975344
>tfw Jewish
>tfw strongly believe in the moral superiority of fascist thought and organization
Every group is entitled to their 'Israel'. Well, in so far as they can take it and keep it that is. All is war and one's group or nation are biologically and psychologically fundamental to functioning human behavior. 'Diverse societies' are dysgenic and only exist by virtue of borrowed time enabled by social infrastructure built by prior more functional generations that is slowly being eroded by a generation unable to maintain itself that having not developed under natural stresses now glory in unnatural ecumenical behavior/ideas not unlike swines wallowing in mud. In effect they celebrate their own death and degradation.
>>18975113
>Which book made you a fascist or significantly enforced your fascist views?
Too many to list really since I can see the truth of fascist virtue in everything from Gilgamesh to Shakespeare to Spengler to Xi Jinping's 'Governance of China'. That said I think the works of Joseph de Maistre are a good place to start. Once you appreciate the biological axioms of the world and human society fascism becomes an inescapable conclusion.

[Anonymous No.18976349]

>>18976340
>these people don't agree on anything
Keep repeating yourself and maybe it will turn true, who knows

[Anonymous No.18976351]

>>18975209
Imagine listening to what a woman has to say about fascism.

>>18975244
>"""""popular""""" revolt

[Anonymous No.18976355]

>deboonked the concept of human being
>called italians half-apes
>expelled from the NSDAP for racism

[Anonymous No.18976358]

>>18976351
>woman

[Anonymous No.18976360]

>>18976227
You are a product of western propaganda. I wonder if you can even begin to believe it.
You so easily believe you know what the Chinese know, better than them in fact.

[Anonymous No.18976366]

>>18976343
this might be the most based post I've read on this board in months

[Anonymous No.18976386]

>>18975698
>Why attracts people to failed doctrines from the past?
China is literally on the verge of ruling the entire world for the rest of history. All western 'anti-fascist' institutions are on the brink of collapse.

[Anonymous No.18976393]

>>18976326
>Clearly this has become a semantic argument, but I'll bit. A revolution is just that -- a 're-volution', a 'return' in a certain sense. Generally when revolutions are discussed it's in terms of overthrow, regime change, national liberation, et al. 'Popular revolt' is a specialized definition which is less ambiguous. Clearly the civil unrest seen in interwar Europe was a popular revolt as were the various peasant insurrections seen at the end of the medieval period. Neither were successful.
When I said popular revolt, I meant a revolution- so if those two mean different things then that's my fault and I apologize. However you are the one who started the semantic debate when you asserted that a popular revolt and a revolt are two different things while I said that a general strike was a revolution.

The period of the biennio rosso in general is plagued with ideology and each side has a vastly different perspective on the events took place then.

>This is totally irrelevant, I'm an anarchist. I don't believe in organized revolution at all, not by a professional cadre or reified 'masses.'
"Revolution" in the blanquist sense was no different than an insurrection. I think the one getting caught up in semantics is you, fren.

>>18976331
Fascism is not based on "Nation", Gentile acknowledges nations as idealist constructs. If the ego believes in something it's not a spook anyway.
>>18976342
>You literally said nothing except "thats not fascist because i said so, also Lenin is more fascist because i said so"
I just explained to you why they are not. I said they have vastly opposing views on literally everything and not able to come to any agreement. You are asking me to prove a negative "explain how these are not fascist" when you should be showing me how they ARE fascist.

[Anonymous No.18976400]

>>18976393
>a popular revolt and a revolt
A popular revolt and a revolution

[Anonymous No.18976411]

>>18976393
>while I said that a general strike was a revolution.
While I said that a general strike was NOT* a revolution
In fact the Italian socialist party did nothing to capitalize on it.

[Anonymous No.18976413]

>>18976293
Are you me? I was full of egalitarianism until I joined the military. Then I saw how the system really worked, where actual combat was seen by a white majority who had to constantly deal with being hamstrung by a political class of blacks, browns, and women who formed a union of morons and managers, cooks and janitors colluding with logistics and human resources types, to make actual work done by actual workers as difficult, dysfunctional, and discredited as possible. The whole fucking thing is a demented structure built out of self-sabotage where you have to carry more and more parasites on your back until you're expended. No-one can join the US army and think it is sustainable.

[Anonymous No.18976448]

>>18976393
>how these are not fascist" when you should be showing me how they ARE fascist.
So being part of a new wave of political movements from the early 20th-century with anticommunist, antidemocratic, totalitarian, nationalist and corporatist policies that were all inspired by the same movement but had different influences and needs which resulted in their policies being different in some non core ares doesnt make you a fascist?
>They couldnt agree on anything!!!
They could agree on being totalitarian, anticommunist, antidemocratic, nationalist parties. Just because the prefascist of germany were ispired by Wagner and Schoppenhaur and called themselves Völkish doesnt mean that they arent fascist once fascist as it is started to form as a political position

You sound like a deranged commie that things that real communism has never been tried without anybody really knowing what real communism is

Also, you accuse me of something while you yourself said that Lenin is closer to fascism than leon degrelle or jose antonio de rivera, without previously saying what fascism is. For you fascism currently is "babistics", undefined nonsense

Once you accept that fascism comes in many forms since every nation has its needs, see Aristotles Politics since youre a brainlet and also like how >>18976343 said

So try not to be the average lit pseud

[Anonymous No.18976471]

>>18976448
>So being part of a new wave of political movements from the early 20th-century with anticommunist, antidemocratic, totalitarian, nationalist and corporatist policies that were all inspired by the same movement but had different influences and needs which resulted in their policies being different in some non core ares doesnt make you a fascist?
No it doesn't retard. I'm not going to engage with you. I don't care. Also none of those things are inherent to fascism either.

>Also, you accuse me of something while you yourself said that Lenin is closer to fascism than leon degrelle or jose antonio de rivera, without previously saying what fascism is
An idealist interpretation of revolutionary syndicalism, which itself was a revolutionary interpretation of Marxist Communism

Have a good day

[Anonymous No.18976489]

>>18976471
>No it doesn't retard. I'm not going to engage with you. I don't care. Also none of those things are inherent to fascism either.
"ill continue being a retard and not explain what fascism is, while also ignoring the historical aspect of fascism"
>An idealist interpretation of revolutionary syndicalism, which itself was a revolutionary interpretation of Marxist Communism
Yea youre retarded, since you also claimed that falangism aka national syndicalism isnt fascism? Read some actual history nigger instead of seeing fascism as a small bookclub in your brain

[Anonymous No.18976503]

>>18976489
>falangism
Wasn't national syndicalism, falange adopted the label of national syndicalism from Ledesma Ramos' JONS, who then left the Falange merger precisely over the fact that it wasn't national syndicalism.

Idk why i'm still replying to you.

[Anonymous No.18976511]

>>18976471
>An idealist interpretation of revolutionary syndicalism

[Anonymous No.18976519]

>>18976511
Yes.
>It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.
Gentile from his "What is Fascism" essay.
It would actually be more accurate to call it an idealist "interpretation of syndicalism" becauzs it is the "national" part which is precisely idealist.

[Anonymous No.18976576]

>>18976269
the point remains to show any larger statement and identity aside from vitriol

[Anonymous No.18976776]

>>18976343
Based Revisionist Maximalist

[Anonymous No.18976784]

>>18975344

[Anonymous No.18976798]

>>18975726
>How was it? Please explain.
Very pro traditional gender roles and sexual morality.

[Anonymous No.18976799]

>>18975717
>it is a teardown of democracy, which is an essential part of fascism or authoritarian thought, i believe.
that brought Hoppe's "democracy - the god that failed" into my mind, which has been on my wishlist for a long time. Do you think I should start with that one? Although I think it's more centered towards monarchy and its application on anarcho capitalism

[Anonymous No.18976809]

>>18975771
I didn't say Fascism was religious, but otherwise its core value system was very much a traditionalist one.

[Anonymous No.18976818]

>>18976189
Based effort poster MOGGING our shitposts

[Anonymous No.18976855]

>>18976798
>>18976798
>pro traditional gender roles
Mussolini's mistress was a journalist and an art critic. Pro-natalist policy isn't "traditional gender roles", the party encouraged women to do sports and be active, a first for the time.
>traditional sexual morality
What? There were gay people in his party

Sorry but anything that isn't modern day LGBTQ isn't "traditionalism"

[Anonymous No.18976860]

>>18976221
>Fascism is when there is no Washington Post to call for more womxyn CEOs!
Fucking Angloids, when will they understand that muh social issues is the end all of political theory

[Anonymous No.18976863]

>>18976855
This

[Anonymous No.18976872]

>>18976221
>Fascism is when there is no Washington Post to call for more womxyn CEOs!
Fucking Angloids, when will they understand that muh social issues is not the end all of political theory

[Anonymous No.18976875]

>>18976189
you seem deeply mentally disturbed. You say that fascism can't exist outside of its historical context but you are also uncomfortable sharing fascist literature. You can't have both. Jeff Bezos sells the communist manifesto without a care in the world. is fascism more adapted to the modern world than Marxism ?

[Anonymous No.18976877]

>>18975113
why the fuck would i become a follower of a totalitarian ideology that doesn't work and can't work lmao

[Anonymous No.18976889]

>>18976875
Fascism came into the world because they thought Marxism was not adapted for the modern world. That was in 1915.

[Anonymous No.18976898]

>>18976860
>>18976872
ywnbaw

[Anonymous No.18976907]

>>18975835
Are they against Hitler as a person and for what he did or against his ideology as well?

[Anonymous No.18976925]

>>18976855
He didn't want women to pursue higher education so they become tradwives rather than pursuing careers. He also banned homosexuality.
"Mussolini's mistress was a journalist" and "they were gay people in the party" are poor counter arguments, his social stance is clear.

[Anonymous No.18976935]

>>18976898
you will never leave your parent's home

[Anonymous No.18976938]

>>18975244
Someone actually gets it. We were so close to mass economic revolt in the last ten-fifteen years.

[Anonymous No.18976949]

>>18976925
>He didn't want women to pursue higher education so they become tradwives rather than pursuing careers.
I don't think Mussolini wanted most men to be pursing higher education, does that make him anti-men.
Also imagine thinking keeping women from working is anti women. You are brainwashed by capitalism.
>He also banned homosexuality.
Homosexuality was never illegal in Fascist Italy. It was literally a non issue and they didn't talk about it.

You are both ideological and ignorant, the two worst kinds of people.

[Anonymous No.18976967]

>>18975113
I am not a fascist, and neither was Hirohito.

[Anonymous No.18976972]

>>18975113
Ernst Nolte, Three Faces of Fascism

[Anonymous No.18976980]

>>18976189
>This is such an ill-informed position. Liberalism, maybe, but Western powers consider green anarchists (ALF, ELF, etc.) to be the single-most dangerous domestic terrorist threat today
The Stasi fell 30 years ago, there is no outside force pushing leftist terror in the West today. If anything, the leaders of the West are encouraging green movements like the climate change fight. As for leftism in general, well, there’s a reason communist texts can be bought on Amazon and fascist ones cannot. Only one is a threat to the West today, and it’s not the one you can openly identify as without retribution.

[Anonymous No.18976991]

I'm a right wing traditionalist but not a fascist but I'm sympathetic only because of the actual existing fascist societies and how successful they were in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Brazil, Germany etc. A good model to work towards.

[Anonymous No.18977031]

>>18976949
>I don't think Mussolini wanted most men to be pursing higher education, does that make him anti-men.
>Also imagine thinking keeping women from working is anti women. You are brainwashed by capitalism.
Are you having trouble following the argument, we are talking about whether Fascism's social stance was traditionalist, not whether it was "anti women", whatever that means.
Mussolini wanted women to stay at home raising children while men run society war. This is the traditional view of gender roles.
>Homosexuality was never illegal in Fascist Italy. It was literally a non issue and they didn't talk about it.
"1930–1945 - The government punishes male homosexual behaviour with administrative punishment, such as public admonition and confinement"
>You are both ideological and ignorant, the two worst kinds of people.
This coming from the man who thinks Benito "literally sending gays on an island" Mussolini had no problem with homosexuality. What incentive do you have to try and argue that fascist Italy was not extremely right wing on social issues anyway? Neither fascists or non fascists deny this. Are you having fun being a contrarian?

[Anonymous No.18977141]

>>18977031
>Are you having trouble following the argument, we are talking about whether Fascism's social stance was traditionalist, not whether it was "anti women", whatever that means.
>Mussolini wanted women to stay at home raising children while men run society war. This is the traditional view of gender roles.
This has about as much substance at saying that drinking water is "traditional". The regime wanted Italian people to be healthy, it wasn't tradition for the sake of tradition. The reality of women in Italy was largely dependent on your social status and who you knew, and Italian society than was largely conservative as such there was no need to radically alter the social role of women. If we are going to talk about repression it was indeed the state's role to shape everyone to an ideal image. This still isn't "traditionalism"
>1930–1945 - The government punishes male homosexual behaviour with administrative punishment, such as public admonition and confinement"
Again, there were gays in the government. The reality is that these people were more than likely persecuted for their opposition to the regime and also branded as homosexual to hit two birds with one stone.
>This coming from the man who thinks Benito "literally sending gays on an island" Mussolini had no problem with homosexuality. What incentive do you have to try and argue that fascist Italy was not extremely right wing on social issues anyway?
No Mussolini had no problems with gays for their gayness alone. He was friends with Marinetti who was clearly gay.
There is no such thing as "right wing on social issues", Fascist social policy was a matter of pragmatism and health.
>Neither fascists or non fascists deny this
I deny it.
>Are you having fun being a contrarian?
I'm having fun looking at reality without ideological and prejudiced lens.

[Anonymous No.18977199]

>>18976776
My views are in fact very simple, and were the overwhelming norm for most of human history. We are living in an era of extreme views made ordinary, and it is clearly already passing. Only the myopic and ignorant think liberalism is normal, or anything other than a blip.

[Anonymous No.18977220]

>>18976343
>Every group is entitled to their 'Israel'. Well, in so far as they can take it and keep it that is.
Is that why you genocide the Palestinians?

[Anonymous No.18977236]

>>18975113
I actually read the Doctrine of Facism yesterday (Mussolini). Very good quick read for a brief summary. Mein Kampf and Inside the Third Reich are pretty good insights into a quasi-facist state not run by retarded Italians. Evolas Revolt is decent to get an understanding of some of why Nazism captured so much spirit of the time too.

[Anonymous No.18977279]

>>18976980
>the Stasi fell 30 years ago, there is no outside force pushing leftist terror in the West today

Holy fuck, are you serious? The ALF and ELF have nothing to do with the Stasi, 'green movements' as you know them are also not nearly as radical as either of those: the ALF advocates for property destruction and raids on animal agriculture, the ELF supports arson and sabotage. Both are considered terrorist organizations by Western governments.

Like I said, ill-informed.

[Anonymous No.18977296]

>>18977141
>This has about as much substance at saying that drinking water is "traditional". The regime wanted Italian people to be healthy, it wasn't tradition for the sake of tradition. The reality of women in Italy was largely dependent on your social status and who you knew, and Italian society than was largely conservative as such there was no need to radically alter the social role of women. If we are going to talk about repression it was indeed the state's role to shape everyone to an ideal image. This still isn't "traditionalism"
This is just muddling the issue. The question is this: Is the Fascist view of the role of women in society traditionalist or non traditionalist? And the answer is that Fascist wanted women to stay home and raise children rather than getting educated and pursuing careers, which is precisely what the phrase traditional gender roles means. And you cannot cannot avoid implicitly admitting it yourself when you see that wasn't tradition for tradition's shake. In other words, you are changing the question of whether Fascism is traditionalist to whether it is a good thing or not, whether it wants "Italian people to be healthy.
>Again, there were gays in the government. The reality is that these people were more than likely persecuted for their opposition to the regime and also branded as homosexual to hit two birds with one stone.
This is more acrobatics to deny what is plain. Mussolini persecuted homosexuals, and the fascists considered homosexuality to be incompatible with their ideal of manhood. It doesn't matter if there were gay Fascists. Gay Nazis existed too, doesn't change what the regime did.

[Anonymous No.18977314]

>>18977220
I don't know why your types think this is some kind of 'gotcha' question. As though you're somehow enlightened or different for your cowardly haphazard criticism of Israel. Very likely you say such things precisely because you're so deep in narcissistic delusion you can't imagine someone would reply with anything but horror and denial at the idea.
Yes, it is the policy of Israel to genocide the so called Palestinians, so what? It is done sufficiently slowly and with the appropriate sleight of hand that the international community cannot organize against it as an actionable wrong. And in the end we will win, they don't have to leave their 'homes', but neither do we have to cease making them as undesirable as possible. There's any number of Arab or Muslim countries in the world for them. Yet they insist on lingering about as vanquished beggars, well they will only destroy themselves both inside and out by doing so. I invite anyone to look at the obesity rate in Gaza against GDP and try to tell me these are people and not half insane cattle, relinquishing control over themselves to invite sympathy from the world instead. The world has no sympathy for those who won't/can't help themselves.
So no, I haven't contradicted myself. Palestine will never exist because they can neither take it nor keep it, and I've no qualms about destroying them inside or out in struggle. There are no rights, especially not for the defeated, and so we will win.

[Anonymous No.18977371]

>>18977296
>This is just muddling the issue. The question is this: Is the Fascist view of the role of women in society traditionalist or non traditionalist? And the answer is that Fascist wanted women to stay home and raise children rather than getting educated and pursuing careers, which is precisely what the phrase traditional gender roles means. And you cannot cannot avoid implicitly admitting it yourself when you see that wasn't tradition for tradition's shake. In other words, you are changing the question of whether Fascism is traditionalist to whether it is a good thing or not, whether it wants "Italian people to be healthy.
We haven't even agreed on what "tradition" is. The regime was guilty of such policy that challenged the currents of "traditionalism", it recognized women as politcal entities and mobilized them on this account. There were women paramilitaries, the regime created the first womens' sports organization, canonized women who marched with the blackshirts, and attempted to ensure representation of women in the Chamber of Corporations. Calling it "traditionalist" again is an inaccurate view of what was going on at the time.
>This is more acrobatics to deny what is plain. Mussolini persecuted homosexuals, and the fascists considered homosexuality to be incompatible with their ideal of manhood. It doesn't matter if there were gay Fascists. Gay Nazis existed too, doesn't change what the regime did.
I just told you it was their opposition to the regime which resulted in their persecution, not their homosexuality. You cannot compare it to Hitler's Germany because there was any mass persecution of Homosexuals in Fascist Italy. In fact since it is you that is bringing this up you should bring up those anecdotes in which homosexuals were persecuted. Again homosexuality was never illegal in Fascist Italy, and persecution of Homosexuals was persecution of dissidents.

[Anonymous No.18977452]

>>18977314
>>18976343
Israel and the Jews have been inspirational as fuck for me. If after 2000 years they won their homeland back, anything is possible.

[Anonymous No.18977514]

>>18977371
>We haven't even agreed on what "tradition" is. The regime was guilty of such policy that challenged the currents of "traditionalism", it recognized women as politcal entities and mobilized them on this account. There were women paramilitaries, the regime created the first womens' sports organization, canonized women who marched with the blackshirts, and attempted to ensure representation of women in the Chamber of Corporations. Calling it "traditionalist" again is an inaccurate view of what was going on at the time.
It's less inaccurate than any attempt to paint them as almost proto-feminists. Creating a women's sports organization is not necessarily at odds with the core of traditional values. The traditional gender role of women is to stay at home to raise children. And taking measures to try to prevent women to pursue careers or getting a higher education is a traditionalist-minded enactment of gender roles. The most you could argue is that the picture is more complicated than the popular perception - but the regime's outlook on women was certainly on the traditionalist side.
>I just told you it was their opposition to the regime which resulted in their persecution, not their homosexuality. You cannot compare it to Hitler's Germany because there was any mass persecution of Homosexuals in Fascist Italy. In fact since it is you that is bringing this up you should bring up those anecdotes in which homosexuals were persecuted. Again homosexuality was never illegal in Fascist Italy, and persecution of Homosexuals was persecution of dissidents.
This is speculation on your part. Given that public Fascist rhetoric was anti-gay, it is a forced interpretation to insist that the prosecution of homosexuals by the Fascists was purely motivated by political grievance. Besides, the fact that you could smear a political opponent with the accusation of homosexuality serves again to highlight that Fascism is anti-gay.

[Anonymous No.18977548]

>>18977514
>It's less inaccurate than any attempt to paint them as almost proto-feminists. Creating a women's sports organization is not necessarily at odds with the core of traditional values. The traditional gender role of women is to stay at home to raise children. And taking measures to try to prevent women to pursue careers or getting a higher education is a traditionalist-minded enactment of gender roles. The most you could argue is that the picture is more complicated than the popular perception - but the regime's outlook on women was certainly on the traditionalist side.
I am arguing the picture is more complicated. The Fascists themselves remarked that they offered women the "third way between the oratory and the house". Again we haven't agreed on what "tradition" is.
>This is speculation on your part. Given that public Fascist rhetoric was anti-gay, it is a forced interpretation to insist that the prosecution of homosexuals by the Fascists was purely motivated by political grievance. Besides, the fact that you could smear a political opponent with the accusation of homosexuality serves again to highlight that Fascism is anti-gay.
This is not my speculation this is my understanding of the political climate at the time. The regime never talked about homosexual issues. They literally did not care, it was not an issue in Italian society at the time. This was 1925, gay people were not a political entity in the way they were now. There is no evidence of state sanctioned persecution of homosexuals. There were not even homosexuals to persecute. This was just not something anyone cared about at the time.

[Anonymous No.18977556]

>>18977452
Since they want to dilute European homelands with immigrants then they don't deserve a homeland of their own

[Anonymous No.18977566]

>>18977556
Nah, not how it works.

Also, Jews aren't doing anything of the sort. That is simply a nonsensical conspiracy theory. Europeans simply aren't having kids and their governments are importing immigrants to prop up the welfare states as a result. It's not the Jews fault.

[Anonymous No.18977588]

>>18975209
you have no fucking vision

[Anonymous No.18977589]

>>18977556
I don't get why Euros whine about immigrants when the EU exists. You're worrying about being replaced when your countries are vassals of an institution which wants to destroy your unique cultures and replace it with a cosmopolitan, rootless, "European" one.

[Anonymous No.18977597]

>>18977556
Europeans are the ones doing that to themselves. Any country that can't maintain its borders and demographics doesn't deserve to exist.

[Anonymous No.18977608]

>>18975209
>>18975244
The fucking bullshit that people fellate theirselves with to make them feel intellectual

[Anonymous No.18977630]

Imperium by Yokey and Prussian Socialism by Spengler.

[Anonymous No.18977636]

>>18976168
Is this a joke

[Anonymous No.18977653]

>>18975209
>>18975244
>>18975265
Tripshits are so fucking dumb it's unbelievable

[Anonymous No.18977659]

>>18976343
>All is war and one's group or nation are biologically and psychologically fundamental to functioning human behavior ... 'Diverse societies' are dysgenic ... Xi Jinping's 'Governance of China'.
Uhh

[Anonymous No.18977697]

>>18977659
Oh come the fuck on.
>Limiting Mongolian language education
>Uyghur camps
>Restrictions on Tibetan children's Tibetan cultural education
China are literal fascists, and slapping a hammer and sickle on their seal doesn't change that. You have to be a shill, because nobody is dumb enough to take Xi's words at face value.

>inb4 "It's not a genocide", "western propaganda", etc.
Holy cope

[Anonymous No.18977723]

>>18977548
>I am arguing the picture is more complicated. The Fascists themselves remarked that they offered women the "third way between the oratory and the house". Again we haven't agreed on what "tradition" is.
The traditional gender role of women is pretty clear. Her primarily role is to stay home raising children and being a good wife. And this would be opposed to the feminist view that women should chose themselves their "role". Since the Fascists attempted to discourage women from following career and wanted them to serve a particular state-function their position is clearly a trraditional one, even if it is more "progressive" than other traditionalisms on the spectrum.
>This is not my speculation this is my understanding of the political climate at the time. The regime never talked about homosexual issues. They literally did not care, it was not an issue in Italian society at the time. This was 1925, gay people were not a political entity in the way they were now. There is no evidence of state sanctioned persecution of homosexuals. There were not even homosexuals to persecute. This was just not something anyone cared about at the time.
The Fascist view of homosexuality was that it is a form of deviancy - this is the traditionalist view, similar eg. to the Catholic teachings on the matter. And you can have a traditionalist view on homosexuality without actually prosecuting homosexuals - although the fascists did in fact persecute them. Why assume that the motive was purely political? And if it was, why not persecute them as political opponents rather than as homosexuals? It highlights the social stigma they perpetuated.

[Anonymous No.18977728]

>>18977697
>>Limiting Mongolian language education
>>Uyghur camps
>>Restrictions on Tibetan children's Tibetan cultural education
Literal Fascists did not do this btw

[Anonymous No.18977750]

>>18977723
>The traditional gender role of women is pretty clear. Her primarily role is to stay home raising children and being a good wife. And this would be opposed to the feminist view that women should chose themselves their "role". Since the Fascists attempted to discourage women from following career and wanted them to serve a particular state-function their position is clearly a trraditional one, even if it is more "progressive" than other traditionalisms on the spectrum.
No one in the state was allowed to "choose" their own role.
>The Fascist view of homosexuality was that it is a form of deviancy - this is the traditionalist view, similar eg. to the Catholic teachings on the matter. And you can have a traditionalist view on homosexuality without actually prosecuting homosexuals - although the fascists did in fact persecute them. Why assume that the motive was purely political? And if it was, why not persecute them as political opponents rather than as homosexuals? It highlights the social stigma they perpetuated.
It's easier to persecute people when the public also does not like them. It's a matter of tactics.

[Anonymous No.18977844]

>>18976189
>am opposed to state communism (Marxism-Leninism[-Maoism]
they are. red shirt, brown shirt, black shirt. they're all the same

[Anonymous No.18977931]

Modern "Fascists" are fucking embarrassing larpers. You're just internet incels mad that you cant get your dick wet and that there are other people that don't look like you living around you. It's so juvenile. Fascism is no longer a legitimate political force. Franco was your last hurrah and he's dead. Nationalism is never coming back to Europe. Just get with the times.

[Anonymous No.18978015]

>>18977931
Are you a socialist or Marxist?

[Anonymous No.18978021]

>>18978015
Social Democrat.

[Anonymous No.18978038]

>>18978021
cringe

[Anonymous No.18978067]

>>18978038
Too busy winning elections and actually being influential on mainstream politics to care about fashy seething. Social democracy makes the most sense out of any ideology and this is why you seethe so hard at the mention of it. Socialists, fascists, Nazis, libertarians, conservatives tremble at the sight of the SocDem chad.

[Anonymous No.18978084]

>>18978067
dont care. social democrats are milquetoast faggots too afraid of actually solving the problems of capitalism. you guys are just putting a bandaid over an axe wound

[Anonymous No.18978089]

>>18975113
The Republic

[Anonymous No.18978094]

>>18978084
We're one of the few level headed folks left in politics. Commies and fashies would just send us all straight to hell on earth. SocDem's take care of the people but still give them a chance of making something of themselves as well. Best of both worlds. No racism, no starvation, no exploitation by the rich, no authoritarianism. What's not to love really?

[Anonymous No.18978106]

>>18978094
nah youre just establishment shills kys

[Anonymous No.18978112]

>>18978106
Establishment shills are pro capitalist.

[Anonymous No.18978117]

>>18978067
Social democrats are losing in record numbers all across Europe while Far Right parties are having record number increases.

>Social democracy makes the most sense out of any ideology and this is why you seethe so hard at the mention of it.
I can't imagine the person who look at the current world and sees nothing wrong with it.

[Anonymous No.18978154]

>>18978094
Social Democracy works until millions and millions of Africans and Arabs come to soak up the welfare. It's why Bernie Sanders himself was against open borders. Don't expect Social Democracy to last long once that happens.

[Anonymous No.18978174]

>>18975132
Fuckin lol.

[Anonymous No.18978368]

>>18977697
The PRC was founded in anti-fascist struggle. But keep believing whatever you want to believe -- because if you just make up your world in your head, then anything is possible.

https://youtu.be/rCxsgTShFQc?t=1605

[Anonymous No.18978383]

>>18975113
All fascists must die.

[Anonymous No.18978392]

>>18978112
>Establishment shills are pro capitalist.
No, they're pro oligarch.

[Anonymous No.18978423]

>>18975265
You're a complete retard. Populism has always been a key driver of fascist movements; in very basic terms it's what happens when a ruling elite develops a poverty of empathy with the conservative part of its base--the more glaring the discrpancy the more pronounced the fascistic impulses become.

[Anonymous No.18978445]

fascism is nice. you have the ideological radicalism of communism, but also real tangible goals and direction for improving things, as opposed to communism's directionless chaos justified by the utopian carrot on a stick which leads it much more open to serious corruption of its intended values, as anything can be justified as being apart of the pursuit of that imagined utopian end phase of the movement. fascists have a fire lit under their ass, they have to take action immediate concrete action and produce immediate results because there is no utopian promised land thats always over the next hill to distract everyone

[Anonymous No.18978543]

>>18978368
>This posting style again
Change it up desu, your shilling is getting stale.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978606]

>>18978423
People’s popular movements that want FREEDOM are countered with rightwing extremists and their bootlicking populists.
Hitler had to appeal to the Catholics and Protestants, and the working class that liked what they heard from the socialists. So he pretended to be a type of socialist. The Nazi party wasn’t popular enough to seize power without the go ahead of the business class.
The “Bolsheviks” weren’t the majority when they took that name. They allied with the socialists, picked up turncoat Whites, then turned on the people that thought they’d had a revolution.

If your populist movement is geared towards hoisting up a demigod to crush a popular movement what the fuck good is it?
It’s all counterrevolutionary and won’t lead to freedom, communism, peace or ecological stability

Stupid liberals

[Anonymous No.18978650]

>>18978021
>Social Democrat
Your ilk is precisely why Fascism came into being.

[Anonymous No.18978656]

>>18975209
>mothfag comes into the thread with a based take for once
>retards on /lit/ dogpile him
higgest IQ on 4chan

[Anonymous No.18978661]

>>18978656
Ask yourself why people become "authoritarian statists"

[Anonymous No.18978664]

>>18978606
>freedom, communism, peace or ecological stability
Ew

[Anonymous No.18978668]

>>18975113
pol/NSG/ here.
We have our own reading list, there are a range of works related to Fascism and a lot get threads on /lit/.
Currently I'm reading post-war papers about the evolution of the state-military-population pipeline and the breakdown of the warrior class.

I was always a socialist, but at the same time saw the communists for what they were.
Before I called myself a "fascist" I would have identified as a "Georgist"- which is a purely economic position.
It turns out I was the "economic liberal, social conservative" section of the political compass.
For many years I thought I was the only one- a socialist who hated commies and a patriot but not a libertarian.

The works of Tullock that explain (rent seeking), the "Scandinavian school" (who Identified M->C->M' and the dynamic of Kapitol creation independently of Karl Marx), and very early socialist works on the commons and land tax.

Jews fear Fascists, Jewish bankers fear people like me specifically.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978682]

>>18978661
You answer

[Anonymous No.18978687]

>>18978682
It's called being the change you want to see.

[Anonymous No.18978698]

>>18978606
>Hitler had to appeal to the Catholics and Protestants, and the working class that liked what they heard from the socialists. So he pretended to be a type of socialist.
From SOCIAL DEMOCRATS, who aren't socialists even. Most people who voted NSDAP switched from SPD to NSDAP.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/09/20.htm

[Anonymous No.18978713]

>>18978661
You characterize it as authoritarian- but really it's proletarian.
If you are part of the proletariat none of the directives of the state will even effect you.
Authoritarianism arises when citizens cannot participate in the decision making process, and the state is in the grip of loud minorities within the institution.

Sometimes there is confusion which comes from conflating Fascism with the necessities of war; which were at the time universal.
Measures such as rationing were Authoritarian; but linked to the war rather than the ideology of the government.

The state absorbing sub-state authorites (what Trump would call "The swamp") is centeralization, if you don't see it that way it's likely because you enjoy special privilege from the unelected authorities which strangle our democracies.

I am not apologizing for the direct action taken by the NSDAP in any way- my point is that your idea of "authoritarian" is not universally accepted.

[Anonymous No.18978720]

It is a sad fact that Fascism, the shining entity which must be adapted by degrees to a given nation's cultural and historic identity, will not proliferate again for some time. It failed to grow in the 20th Century, and for it's potency will not be allowed to return until after the tree of Western Liberalism, as it is now, lies dead.
What's more the shame is how everyone in the fringe clings to Nazism, the product of Fascism under German culture, while they themselves are so far from it.
I would support and align with an American Fascist movement, grown from American soil, in a heartbeat if it were true, but, as I have said, it is the point that such a time will not occur in the foreseeable future. It is a similar dream to the US breaking apart and every man of any moral fiber in the South having to make the same decision as Lee, the same decision predicted by Faulkner. Possible, but little plausible.
Still, the ideas of strength, looking out for your fellows, and disdain for labor exportation, the ultrarich are good to hold. Anything by Mosley, Codreanu, Gentile, and of course Mussolini are great reads.

[Anonymous No.18978721]

>>18978713
I think you are replying to the wrong person. This has nothing to do with anything I said.
Anyway "proletarian" can be authoritarian as well. Anything can be, it's a matter of perspective.

[Anonymous No.18978726]

>>18978713
>Authoritarianism arises when citizens cannot participate in the decision making process, and the state is in the grip of loud minorities within the institution.
Authoritarianism arises whenever there is one person whose beliefs or ideas are not exactly the same as the ruling one. Ie, it always exists so long as there is more than one person in a state. You really think every person is going to be happy in a proletarian dictatorship when you've forced the cream of humanity down to the bottom?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978731]

>>18978698
Didn’t mean to imply. Lots to go over

>>18978687
The change we want to see is statelessness.
We’ve had several working models up, some old some new, so save your breath trying to tell me they don’t exist or don’t work

[Anonymous No.18978733]

>>18978731
My favourite stateless society was medieval Europe

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978734]

>>18978720
>…to a given nation's cultural and historic identity

[Anonymous No.18978753]

>>18978731
>The change we
This is precisely your issue. Grow up.

I believe a future advanced society will be "stateless" and be run in a direct democracy.

Not today.

[Anonymous No.18978766]

>>18978726
I would distinguish here clearly between a natural and an alien authority.

If the authority is made up by natural citizens, is democratic/regional and governs the commons it is a natural authority.
If the authority is made up of foreigners, is not democratic, and usurps individual rights or sovereign rights it's an alien authority.
While some bodies may have mixed characteristics the majority fall clearly into one or the other.

The NSDAP was "authoritarian" primarily in the sense that it applied force very directly and overtly against anti-socials and non-citizens/non-volk.
For instance their intervention against Jewish land speculation companies was entirely natural, as they were the elected government and land is a common asset.
If you believe you have the right as an individual to speculate against natural resources within the state when you aren't a natural citizen of the state- we drink your tears

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978772]

>>18978753
>but not yet!
It should have been ages ago. You start it asap, and not with tyranny. Bakunin argues this

And stop spreading this idiotic quote. The man was a buffoon.

[Anonymous No.18978784]

>>18978772
>It should have been ages ago.
But it was not.
>You start it asap, and not with tyranny.
This is a matter of perspective. To the bourgeoisie violating private property rights is "tyranny".
>Bakunin Argues this
Bakunin had what we might call an "authoritarian personality". Read Mendel's "Michael Bakunin: Roots of Apocalypse" it's a psychobiography.
>And stop spreading this idiotic quote
No because he is 100% correct.
>The man was a buffoon
Maybe not the sharpest knife but he had a lot of courage. I bet he read more theory than you.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978790]

>>18978784
>This is a matter of perspective.
My perspective is long

[Anonymous No.18978792]

>>18978772
Your tears sustain us.
Your argument cannot even sustain itself

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978797]

>>18978792
>tears he says.

Your end goal is the death of all life on earth. The End of histories. Did you even know this was your camp’s objective?

[Anonymous No.18978801]

>>18977659
China is over 90% Han. They're less diverse than western europe and north america.

>>18978731
Hey, I read that book earlier this year. As a person who believes in a strong state to protect the environment and restore our culture, it was interesting.

[Anonymous No.18978802]

>>18978668
>Jewish bankers fear people like me specifically.
Nobody fears fat retards like you

[Anonymous No.18978803]

>>18978790
>When I do it it's freedom! When my enemy does it, it's tyranny!

[Anonymous No.18978806]

>>18977697
The Soviets did the same shit

[Anonymous No.18978808]

>>18978803
Is that from Daisies?

[Anonymous No.18978809]

>>18978806

[Anonymous No.18978814]

>>18978808
Ye

[Anonymous No.18978821]

>>18978806
And they were thusly fascist. You'll notice most "communist" countries are actually fascist.

[Anonymous No.18978823]

>>18978797
The end goal of the environmentalists is the zooification of life.

[Anonymous No.18978837]

>>18978392
Based anti-neolib economics chad

[Anonymous No.18978839]

>>18978606
Avraham Barkai would disagree with you

[Anonymous No.18978867]

>>18975113
Unironically Mien Kampf.

>>18975155
Neither was he.

>>18975411
In the end that's what butters actually wants. "Anarchists" just desire to be prostitutes without judgement, and a pay scale significantly better than what a free market or pimp provides.

>I want to be paid lots of money to have enjoyable sex and never worry about exploitation

Remember that show Firefly? Remember how Morena Baccarin played a freelance space hooker who set her own terms and always enjoyed the lap of luxury? That's the dream of every female anarchist who's ever lived.

[Anonymous No.18978879]

>>18978772
>Bakunin argues this
Bakunin argues he should bang his sister.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978880]

>>18978801
The picture is daft.
Strong states destroy the environment.

>>18978803
Why are you confused?

>>18978823
How about half of it? To wilderness and a commitment to letting it grow untampered with.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978897]

>>18978867
>Framing everything in transactions and involving his dick.
This is of course all that you want. Not I.

[Anonymous No.18978918]

>>18978880
>Strong states destroy the environment.
This is entirely dependent on who is in control of the state, if a dictator happened to also be an environmentalist we don't have to do much guesswork to predict which policy he would enact.
>Why are you confused?
You have a very black/white view of morality and are akin to a secular Christian.
>I represent the side of goodness, and virtue, my enemy that of evil and tyranny!

>How about half of it? To wilderness and a commitment to letting it grow untampered with.
Eh sure why not. I never really had much of a problem with this. My stance of enviormental issues is pragmatic and non-ideological, i.e don't murder the planet for future generations.
However a lot of enviormentalists are fear mongerers and make human beings out to be some unnatural force and evil force.

[Anonymous No.18978937]

>>18975113
Rousseau, Hegel and Marx

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18978958]

>>18978918
>This is entirely dependent on who is in control of the state,
Wrong.
>if a dictator
Ruled the whole world? We’d be at the mercy of a global king? Roll the dice and see if we get Caligula again!
> You have a very black/white view of morality
Not particularly really. My enemies are misguided, wayward fools. I wish they’d wake up, but they wish for bloody mangled corpses.
The evil force that’s had us in its grip is “unnatural”, for lack of a better term. It’s a brain worm, but not a real living thing

[Anonymous No.18978985]

>>18978958
>Ruled the whole world? We’d be at the mercy of a global king? Roll the dice and see if we get Caligula again!
Again, "we".
This we is your fatal error. YOU would tolerate the Caligula, because it is YOU who would tolerate the barbarism and give excuses of your own inability to ACT. READ NIETZSCHE. Understand that the so called TYRANTS you rail against come into being from your complacency! Where is the insurrection? No where to be found! People like you enable the state through your passivity, it is YOU who brings the state into being!
>Every citizen shares a relationship with the State and is so intimate that the State exists only in so far as it is made to exist by the citizen.
-Gentile

What have you done to bring your ideal world into being? NOTHING!

The state has no power really, power is innate to the individual. I have more power than all of the governments in the world combined.

Anyway there is no such thing as "unnatural", a better term would simply be people you disagree with.

[Anonymous No.18978990]

>>18975113
Fascism died with WWII, however you can be far-right or an admirer of Hitler, Mussolini, etc.
>>18975227
>>18976189
Don't fall for these retards' ideological musical chairs game. Any analysis along the lines of "X is actually the real fascism/communism/liberalism" is a complete intellectual dead end

[Anonymous No.18978995]

>>18975265
>>18975244
>>18975209
God I hate narcissistics.

[Anonymous No.18979056]

>>18975132
This but ive read Mosley

[Anonymous No.18979062]

>>18979056
Mosley is literally patriotic demsoc. I don't know how anyone can be offended by his views.

[Anonymous No.18979081]

I'm not a fascist for multiple reasons. Fascism is too authoritarian, too democratic and too proletarian. When I say "too authoritarian" I don't come from the perspective of a liberal democrat, I agree more with fascists than with liberal democrats, but giving citizens no personal freedom and having them under the constant surveillance of some kind of wanna be Himmler is not desirable. Also, fascism is too dogmatic, too war hungry, but probably the best critique from a right wing viewpoint is its proletarian character.

Defining fascism is notoriously difficult, I recommend reading various scholars, Zeev Sternhall, James A. Gregor, Roger Griffin, Stanley Payne, Ernst Nolte, Karlheinz Weissmann come to mind.

From my interpretation fascism is to a significant degree a middle class phenomenon. The European middle class was afraid that bolschevism would come over to Europe and they'd lose their privileged status so they supported fascist strongmen who promised they would protect them. They very poor have an association with (Russian) communism, the ultra wealthy have an association with (Anglo) capitalism, what's left for the middle class who views the classes above and below as parasites is fascism (native).

Also, I think fascism can re emerge. It's true that unique conditions, such as ww1, fin de siecle pessimism, the rise of social darwinism, the rapid transformation of European countries from monarchies into democracies, the bolschevik revolution etc. made fascism possible, but fascism has an eternal appeal.

Leftists have over the years identified several thinkers they accused of being "proto fascist" and there's a degree to which fascism was an attempt to escape modernity and go back to the middle ages, corporatism and the guild system are almost identical.

[Anonymous No.18979091]

>>18975113
>Which book made you a fascist or significantly enforced your fascist views?
Unironically picrel

[Anonymous No.18979106]

>>18979081
Stupid post. I will not elaborate further. You also didn't read any of the authors you name dropped aside perhaps from that hack Roger Griffin.

[Anonymous No.18979111]

>>18979081
The best critique of fascism is probably that it's opposition to modernity was never sincere, and even if it's opposition to bolschevism was sincere, it never amounted to being more of an inverted copy of its supposed political enemy. Don't let anybody ever tell you fascists are opposed to democracy, fascists love democracy, depend on democracy for their very survival. Look at the crowds Hitler had. The masses gave him energy, whereas the traditional right wing position is that masses are primitive and vulgar.

[Anonymous No.18979125]

>>18979111
>The best critique of fascism is probably that it's opposition to modernity was never sincere
Because it was never opposed to modernity and Hitler wasn't a Fascist.

[Anonymous No.18979126]

>>18979106
t. Butthurt fascist

[Anonymous No.18979132]

>>18979126
t. Illiterate retard

[Anonymous No.18979138]

>>18978797
>Your end goal is the death of all life on earth. The End of histories. Did you even know this was your camp’s objective?
Muh ebil Nazi doesn't work on actual Nazis, it only works on NPC's

[Anonymous No.18979145]

>>18975113
>traditionalism
fascists don't like reactionaries

[Anonymous No.18979147]

>>18978802
I think if they did not fear what I had to say they would not go to such pains to censor me.
Many people hate the Jewish bankers, they are not a scapegoat but a universal offender.
But among those many people few can lay a road map to the removal of the Jewish banker.

[Anonymous No.18979159]

>>18979147
>jewish bankers
just, bankers.

[Anonymous No.18979164]

I'm basically a Nazi but not racist or anti-Semite in fact, I think racism is just a meme to keep poor people fighting each other, as if the penniless redneck or literal grandson of a slave is oppressing you.
What's this ideology called?

[Anonymous No.18979169]

>>18979164
Democraric socialism

[Anonymous No.18979176]

>>18979164
Social democracy

[Anonymous No.18979184]

>>18979125
That's a brainlet opinion. National socialism was fascism with German characteristics. Fascism looks different in each country because of unique national characteristics.

>> (OP)

Also, the horseshoe theory is unironically true. But fascists and communists will lose their mind if you mention it. The thing is, it's important from which perspective a critique comes from. When the horseshoe theory is brought up by a liberal democrat who accuses both communism and fascism to infringe on his beloved liberalism then it surely is cringe.

However, fascists don't like communism either, but they probably don't like the Boomer who worships at the altar of the free market critique of communism, and yet think criticism of communism is legitimate. When I say that communists and fascists have a lot in common, I don't say this as a liberal Democrat scared that these two groups will undermine democracy and muh capitalism, I say it because it's true.

Communism and fascism are twins. Both are idealists, both claim their legitimacy lies in opposing the evil of the other twin, both are dogmatic, totalitarian and utopian, and unsurprisingly there are countless cases of fascists turned communist and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.18979188]

>>18979145
>reactionaries
Only Bolsheviks use that word, it means "those that are against the revolution".
Fascists were always opposed to the Bolshevik's and their campaign of rape, theft and arson.

>>18979159
I was a banker from the time I was 16,
I held the money for my friends who were fearful of being robbed by family, and I made loans to those who needed investment capitol.
I was paying the electricity and water bills of my friends families before I had even got a job.
I charged no interest, took no profit, and God as my witness every cent I lent was returned to me without prompt.
I forgive the proles for their slights at "bankers", though verily I am a banker no such slights have ever been directed at me and I fear no retribution because I have committed no sin.

There is a very clear seperation between those that Are wealthy, bankers and their counterparts- the Usurers and rent-seekers.
The Jew engages in fractional reserve banking, lending more than he can actually pay.
The Jew then leverages this theoretical reserve to invest anti-socially and impoverish the people
Having impoverished the people the Jew then forces them to assume debt simply to survive.
And from here the Jew leverages both the anti-social investments against the debts of the workers to create "kapital".

The Jew fears me because because I am the "other" banker, and I won't meet Jews halfway.

[Anonymous No.18979192]

>>18975113
Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.18979203]

>>18975113
Umberto Eco ~ Ur-Fascism

[Anonymous No.18979208]

>>18979188
>investment capitol
AHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.18979213]

>>18979184
>That's a brainlet opinion. National socialism was fascism with German characteristics.
I already addressed this ITT and won't address it again. Read the fucking thread before you go yapping your mouth.

>>18976231
>>18976332
>>18976393
>>18976471
>>18976503

>Communism and fascism are twins
Fascism is communism's revolutionary and idealist nephew.

You don't even understand the terminology you are using, communism isn't "idealist" even though fascist intellectuals argue that he is a crypto hegelian. Communism isn't utopian either in the sense that it doesn't see "free association of producers" to be a utopian concept. Marx spent all of his life railing against utopians.

Fascism ideologically outright rejects utopianism.

You haven't the faintest clue what you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.18979227]

>>18975268
Just don't scream about it in public and you'll be fine. Worked for me so far.

[Anonymous No.18979236]

>>18979213
Hey anon, let's go out for a cigarette and if you don't smoke you watch me and I'll explain to you as best I can that wisdom never convinced a fool and some other stuff about herding cats or kangaroos and something in the Qur'an about not bothering because they are deaf and dumb and blind, and dumb literally means they can't speak.

[Anonymous No.18979239]

>>18979188
>Only Bolsheviks use that word, it means "those that are against the revolution".

>Although we can discuss the question of what socialism is, what is its program and what are its tactics, one thing is obvious: the official Italian Socialist Party has been reactionary and absolutely conservative.
Mussolini's March 23, 1919 speech to announce the first Fasci di Combattimento

[Anonymous No.18979242]

The Sociological Imagination by C Wright Mills ended my allure to authoritarianism

[Anonymous No.18979243]

>>18979208
Yes, Yes I did.
I lent money to someone for a productive enterprise, and did not charge them interest.
Thus by all sensible definitions I was a banker, issued a loan and provided investment capitol.

When people say they hate "bankers" I think they really mean "usurers and rent-seekers"- not people who just hold and lend money.

[Anonymous No.18979248]

>>18979236
I view it as exercise for knowing exactly what I deduced from my reading material. I can recite all of this from memory now.

[Anonymous No.18979257]

>>18979243
Interest-free banking is a thing

[Anonymous No.18979260]

>>18979213

>the idea of a classless, stateless, moneyless society where the state whithers away because of material abundance (and btw this will all happen inevitably because of the inherent contradictions of capitalism) isn't utopian

Brainlet.

>Fascism ideologically rejects utopianism

Yeah right, that's why it tries to restore a golden age, believes man is almost infinitely malleable, believes in a natural order etc.

Pseud.

[Anonymous No.18979270]

>>18979257
No such thing. "Islamic" banking is purely wordplay. It's not potatoe, it's potato. It's not interest, it's "Islamic interest". Replace "Islamic" with any other major banking enterprise that supposedly doesn't turn a profit (as opposed to some literal nobody lending $5 to his buddy)

[Anonymous No.18979272]

>>18979111
>it's opposition to modernity was never sincere
it never opposed modernity, it embraced it

[Anonymous No.18979273]

>>18978445
>fascists have a fire lit under their ass, they have to take action immediate concrete action and produce immediate results because there is no utopian promised land thats always over the next hill to distract everyone
"Action for action's sake." You have no long-term vision or even ideal to aspire to, are completely obsessed with short-term gain no matter where it leads, and then predictably run around bumbling into disasters. I call it... Retard Theory.

[Anonymous No.18979278]

>>18979260
>the idea of a classless, stateless, moneyless society
Communism
>where the state whithers away
Not communism
>and btw this will all happen inevitably because of the inherent contradictions of capitalism
Marx rebuked determinism. He said the material conditions in society facilitate class warfare.

>restore a golden age
Not fascism
>believes man is almost infinitely malleable
Not fascism
>believes in a natural order
Not fascism

Pseud

[Anonymous No.18979284]

>>18979239
Ah, if you didn't just pull this from Wikiquote some context might be needed.
>https://arplan.org/2018/10/24/fascism-of-the-first-hour/
Musellini is here co-opting the words of the bolshevics to explain his "third position".
The bolshevic revolutionaries ruined Russia and created a famine.
At the same time the existing socialist party isn't really socialist and isn't going far enough- he describes them as "reactionaries" for the benefit of the supporters of Bolshevism, to highlight his commitment to socialism in general.

What you are really looking at here is Musllini speaking TO the bolshevik, trying (and suceding) in convincing them than national socialism is better than bolshevik communism.

But make no mistake, Musellini is THE fascist and is in this speech clearly opposed to the bolshevic revolution.
He is in ever sense a "reactionary" himself- he is just defending against the accusation that he's not a real socialist

[Anonymous No.18979287]

>>18979257
>>18979270

[Anonymous No.18979288]

>>18979273
>"Action for action's sake."
Fascist action was born out of pragmatic need for whatever it was the situation demanded. It was a movement born out of military men and they went on their way as military men. The long term vision was a strong and united Italy. Mussolini was actually very good at realpolitik

[Anonymous No.18979293]

>>18979288
>The long term vision was a strong and united Italy. Mussolini was actually very good at realpolitik

[Anonymous No.18979294]

>>18979270
If the bank charges nominal rent for the percentage of the property which the bank owns then that's rent not interest. You're twisting the words, learn the definitions. Islamic isn't the only interest-free system anyway.

[Anonymous No.18979305]

>>18979284
Mussolini didn't believe in false dichotomies such as "revolutionary" and "reactionary", he opposed Bolsheviks for the amount of bloodshed their revolution resulted in. Yet Mussolini himself acknowledged that the tactics of the Fascist party were most certainly "Russian", that is to say "Sorelian" and violent. Fascists opposed large scale revolution in an Italy which was just barely united for over half a century.
>We are reactionary and revolutionary, we are liberal and conservative, we are radicals and pascifists. We are united not by blood, not by class but by hope for unity and glory.
-Musso

>>18979293
No one is perfect.

[Anonymous No.18979306]

>>18979257
Indeed.
Hitler did not ban banking- in the original NSDAP programed he simply called out "unearned incomes"- by which he meant what we now call rent-seeking.
>>18979270
Most "Islamic" banks still have a fractional reserve and simply invest the interest in charity, thus are still creaking Kapitol.
Many wealthy Arabs pay their tithe in this way.
I would call these "for cause" banks- they turn a profit but pay it out to a nominated beneficiary.

but none the less you are objectively wrong, because there are many banks which do not turn a profit.
You have micro-loan banks that simply issue more interest free loans with profits- thus never hold or create any Kapitol.
You have Syndicate banks where the depositors are all fractional share-holders, this is still rent-seeking but the profit goes directly to the depositors not the bank. this is common in agricultural buyers syndicates and a huge part of Chinese economic development.
Then there are state banks, the Ol' bank of Dulce. These make the state rather than a private entity the beneficiary and are effective relative to immigration and corruption, if you live in the bloc it's Russian lotto- nobody wins every time.

The oldest bank however is the deposit bank.
It looks like a safe, a guy with a gun, and a bunch of shoe boxes.
Still practiced by the mafia everywhere in the world.

[Anonymous No.18979308]

>>18979278
I noticed a thing with communists, they are right about one or two things, but that's it. They dogmatically stick to certain terms that are always made up in Marxist circles in a quasi incestuous / cultish way, unintelligible to outsiders. And you constantly make up terms in an attempt to make you look scientific like dialectical materialism, scientific socialism, base / structure etc. Communism is a cult of midwits.

[Anonymous No.18979313]

>>18975383
Because Nazis were completely deranged and had an atypically violent neurology.
Some dude in 1930's thinking homos are fucked in the head and that women aren't as capable as men had the same neurology as a lukewarm reddit liberal of today.
>hurr my great-grandpa though fags and niggers were lower than straight white men so he totally would've supported a mentally ill delusional social darwinist.
Retard.

[Anonymous No.18979318]

>>18979305
There are many reasons to oppose Bolsheviki, I will not assume to rank them.
There at some point must be a distinction between true and rhetorical definitions, politicians do not use words in their true sense outside the party room.
Mussolini wanted a revolution with extreme order, and just as ceasar he wanted to raise a legion in the countryside and then march on rome- which true to Italian tradition he did.

So yes, he was reactionary in the Marxist sense that he opposed the revolution.
But he was also revolutionary in the sense that he had his own revolution and thus wasn't "conservative"
I think we understand one another, the rest is just semantics.

[Anonymous No.18979321]

>>18979306
Interest is not the problem. Usury is.

[Anonymous No.18979323]

>>18979313
You seem upset.
are you still angry that the deranged Nazis took over Europe?
Do you think governments today are fascists and we need another bolshevic revolution?

You need more estrogen, it will help you dilate.

[Anonymous No.18979328]

>>18975245
read fascism 100 questions asked and answered by sir oswald mosley and also the doctrine of fascism by benito mussolini

[Anonymous No.18979330]

>>18979321
I am not sure what you mean, I believe usury and interest are the same thing.
When you lend someone money and demand a greater amount back this is commercial lending.
When you charge a % rather than a fixed rate this is usury, and the interest rate is the % of the original loan you charge

[Anonymous No.18979340]

>>18979318
If he knew of that he would be diposed by the King and Italy would be engulfed in a civil war anyway he would have went "boksheviki" on him. After The Republic of Salo Musso was just filled with grief and regret.

>So yes, he was reactionary in the Marxist sense that he opposed the revolution.
There was no revolution in Italy going on to oppose. The Fascist interventionists were agitating for Italian involvement in the first world war. To the Fascists that would be their "revolution".

>>18979330
Usury is a charge for the use of purchasing power, levied without regard to production and without regard to the possibilities of production.

https://youtu.be/hefWToMxp3Q

[Anonymous No.18979351]

Why would you follow a bankrupt ideology of history's greatest losers that killed millions? Read the great works on the Holocaust and know that this must never be repeated. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.18979401]

Unironically 12 rules for life

[Anonymous No.18979432]

Luv' Mosely
Luv' Codreanu
Luv' Mussolini
Luv' Grego and Pound
Simple as

[Anonymous No.18979462]

>>18975113
I was once heavier into fascist ideology but I sort of fell out of it and became disillusioned with certain aspects (the cronyism embroiled within it, the unfeasibility of establishing such a large, bloated governmental structure, etc.) but there are aspects that stick with me to this day. As far as books go, there is a plethora of fascist reading material. I'd recommend you start off with Stanley Payne's A History of Fascism. It's an excellent book for those new to the ideology and expertly explains what fascism is, what it isn't, and historical examples of fascist regimes. It's also very unbiased so don't expect propaganda. Of course, if you're reading about Fascism, you'd do well to read "Mussolini's" (I put Mussolini in quotations because it's established that he didn't write it, Giovanni Gentile did) Doctrine of Fascism. It's a short-read albeit pedantic but it's an overview of Classical Italian Fascism. There are also several manifestos within the genre of fascist ideology, most notably Mein Kampf and For My Legionaries. I prefer the latter, but both will give you a good understanding of why fascist thought was so appealing.

[Anonymous No.18979477]

>>18979340
>There was no revolution in Italy going on to oppose
There was the bolshevik takeover of Europe, it was the defining struggle of the 40's.
It came to a head in the Spanish civil war with both sides picking a team and the Fascists won.
>king deposed him
Not really, the allies deposed him and the King delivered the letter.
Musellini was no fan of the monarchy- but he was chosen by conservatives as a lesser evil because the communists burned cathedrals and executed the monarchs of Russia.

[Anonymous No.18979502]

>>18979477
>There was the bolshevik takeover of Europe, it was the defining struggle of the 40's.
I am talking about the late '10s in Italy. The Fascists did not even consider Bolsheviks to be Communists, which us why Reds like Bombacci.
> Moscow bows before the light radiating from Rome. The Communist International no longer speaks to the spirit; it is dead.
-Panunzio
>Musellini was no fan of the monarchy- but he was chosen by conservatives
He would have had conservatives shotbin hindsight.

Fascism is Red turned Black

[Anonymous No.18979505]

>>18979502
>which is why Reds like Bombacci joined the Fascist party*

[Anonymous No.18979554]

>>18979502
Weren't the bolsheviks the revolutionary communists, the precursors of lenenist council communism?
Mussolini recognized that not everyone in the bolshevik camp actually wanted that and thus he offered his "third position".

[Anonymous No.18979578]

>>18975113
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Battle Tendency.

When the Nazis saved the world.

[Anonymous No.18979600]

>>18979351
China is literally on the verge of ruling the entire world for the rest of history. All western 'anti-fascist' institutions are on the brink of collapse.

[Anonymous No.18979604]

>>18979432
Based

[Anonymous No.18979616]

>>18979554
Again there was no such revolution going on Italy. IDK how much Italy cared about what eas going on in Russia. Fascists were the first in the West to recognize the USSR

[Anonymous No.18979646]

>>18975344
>As a white person

[Anonymous No.18979661]

>>18979616
The Russians destryoed their whole country, Italy was terrified.
The catholics were scared the communists would massacre them.
The Monarchists were scared the communists would massacre them.
Rural people feared Communists would take their farms by force.
Urban Italians feared the bolshevik thugs and arsonists.

This was very much a thing in Italy, again- defining struggle of Europe at the time

[Anonymous No.18979711]

>>18975209
>They’re authoritarian statists.
REALLY? HOLY SHIT HOW DID YOU FIGURE THAT OUT. GODDAMN SOMEONE GIVE THIS BINT TENURE.

>>18979091
Doesn't this book just make people gay?

[Anonymous No.18980216]

>>18975244
lol fascism is liberal
that's why the liberal anglo gov'ts sided with the USSR against the fascists
oh shit

[Anonymous No.18981086]

>>18979278
Materialism is a shit tier framework to base an ideology on. Completely soulless and assumes that men are machines.