/lit/ - Literature

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946395]

Where to Start with Communism General
Start with their history edition

Previous thread >>18935670

[Anonymous No.18946404]

First for fascism

Read Werner Sombart, the natural completion of Marxism. Even Engels agreed!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946411]

>>18946404
Statism isn’t communism. This is why you need to read some history

[Anonymous No.18946415]

Marxism, Christianism and Fascism generals would help clean this board.

[Anonymous No.18946417]

read the xenosystems pdf archive
you are all fascists
the Outside is coming for you all

[Anonymous No.18946425]

>>18946395
>>18946411
>read history
>posts anti-historical authors
as expected from the retard clown of /lit/

[Anonymous No.18946428]

>>18946411
Shut the fuck up granny!

>>18946417
Shut the fuck up tranny!

[Anonymous No.18946434]

>>18946411
Communism is slavery to the state - always has been. See China, Soviet Union - see any practical example of it in practice. Millions dead, societies collapsed. You people just need to be shot because you're hopelessly brain-dead.

[Anonymous No.18946442]

No one truly believes in the anarchist project.
It all ironically died with the other leftist traditions after the fall of the soviet Union.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946446]

>>18946434
No. The USSR, China, North Korea, they’re not communism.
You’re even posting a picture of some statists shooting people that wanted to be free

[Anonymous No.18946447]

>>18946395
I like how you picked a seedy kike with a giant beak for your OP.

Now show us your tits.

[Anonymous No.18946449]

>>18946395
yeah just up against the wall i will recover those volumes of marx for you

[Anonymous No.18946450]

>>18946447
You sure you want to see them?

[Anonymous No.18946452]

>>18946446
They are communism because literally communism in practice.
>You’re even posting a picture of some statists
They're just the national guard shooting a bunch of bandits causing trouble.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946453]

>>18946442
Okay boomer

[Anonymous No.18946473]

>>18946395
this thread is gonna speedrun to the bump limit from fascist pseud spam like the last one, anyways >>18946259 >>18946272

[Anonymous No.18946479]

>>18946473
>Fascism bad
Why?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946495]

>>18946479
The autocratic nature breeds corruption, viciousness and leads to the same shit more devious liberals take us. That being extinction.

Read Against His-Story, Against Leviathan

[Anonymous No.18946499]

>>18946395
Forget reading about communism. How about you start by implementing it successfully first?

[Anonymous No.18946503]

>The autocratic nature breeds corruption
Proof?
>viciousness
It is only way to stop communism from destroying society.
>That being extinction.
Communists should be driven into extinction though?

[Anonymous No.18946508]

>>18946434
You definitely haven't read any theory. Before you reply ask yourself where your "knowledge" of communism comes from and remember history is written by the winners. Also, Follow the money. If anyone would like me to disprove them regarding communism please tell me what communism is in your own words or would you idiots prefer to live in the comfort of unwavering perennial "knowledge"

>>18946446

[Anonymous No.18946512]

lel buitters """"arguments""" in favor of anarchism boiling down to "you have zero imagination" says everything you need to know about anarchism

[Anonymous No.18946515]

>>18946508
>You haven't read my propaganda
Yeah, I don't waste my time from garbage. I already know about the millions of people killed by your ideas. The only solution to communism is a couple of glock shots to your head.

[Anonymous No.18946519]

>>18946499
Tell that to the CIA LOL.

[Anonymous No.18946525]

>>18946519
>CIA overthrew all my governments
>The people have no agency - the CIA controls all of them
Take your meds, please.

[Anonymous No.18946534]

>>18946525
>defending the CIA
>ever for any reason
>even if it's a commie insulting them

[Anonymous No.18946538]

>>18946395
'Cause there's always someone, somewhere
With a big nose, who knows
And who trips you up and laughs
When you fall

[Anonymous No.18946539]

>>18946515
Purports that communist theory is propaganda,
>Lives in the west
Oh the irony.
It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. Maybe one day you might get curious and see what all the hype with communism is about. Heck you may even read the theory in order to combat it. However not reading and calling it propaganda is laughable at best

[Anonymous No.18946543]

>>18946519
This>>18946525
plus don’t you know Russia was doing the same, and now China.

[Anonymous No.18946546]

>>18946395
id rather start by kissing your nipples

[Anonymous No.18946558]

>>18946453
You don't think it's damning that everyone who call themselves anarchist these days are moralists and cry for government intervention when their sensibilities are offended?

You guys are a bunch of Peter Pan trustfund faggot useful idiots and no normal working person like or respect you.

[Anonymous No.18946561]

>>18946525
The beauty of American Propaganda is not only how effective it has been in placating the population but how it has done this through the illusion of choice. But no, please do go on about how the West are the good guys and the Global South should just use their "agency". How ironic

[Anonymous No.18946563]

>>18946519
>the cia can send some agents in and wrestle complete control of the nation by manipulating its people
>we can totally achieve a long term stateless classless society where everyone just operates autonomously though haha

[Anonymous No.18946568]

Any experience with Robert Wolff's book "in defense of anarchism"? Or Chomsky's "On anarchism"?

[Anonymous No.18946569]

>>18946546
>not forcing butterfly to kiss your nipples
There's no governments to stop me anymore. Only raw physical power matters now. Suck my man nipples or die Butterfly. Your menopausal body is no match for me. No one is coming to save you.

[Anonymous No.18946574]

>>18946534
>all those protestors were CIA
No, they just hated you and communism. Also, the CIA had a legitimate interest because they were combating the KGB and other communist intelligence agencies who inflitrated Western governments

[Anonymous No.18946578]

>>18946563
"Send some agents in" Was that gross oversimplification on purpose or are you just not versed in the topic? Surely you cant think its that simple? This info is all over the internet if you are ever curious but I doubt you're the type to read.

[Anonymous No.18946581]

>>18946561
The west are good guys for killing people like you. Pinochet did nothing wrong. We really do need anti-communist pogroms.

[Anonymous No.18946591]

>>18946581
What is your opinion on the West's exploitation of the Global South. I think it is bad how about you?

[Anonymous No.18946596]

>>18946395
First, accept hierarchies and Pareto distributions as evidently true. Next, realise that most people are simply cattle and that they don’t posses the capacity to rise above this. Nevertheless, make no presuppositions on this matter and establish systems of perfect mobility in every domain such that true meritocracy is the nature of the state. The beauty of radical elitism is that it propagates society forward too fast for dissent among the populace to set in. It is the optimal way for humans to organise themselves and is the inevitable end state of all political systems, with the only distinction being the quality of said elites between systems.

[Anonymous No.18946607]

Unless someone lived under communism, it is not worth paying attention to their thoughts on it.

[Anonymous No.18946610]

>>18946591
There is no exploitation going on. Exploitation is just silly moral construct by socialists.

[Anonymous No.18946616]

>>18946607
The people shilling communism here are paid by foreign intelligence services like wumaos

[Anonymous No.18946618]

>>18946453
Aren't you going through menopause?

[Anonymous No.18946621]

>>18946578
lol you dont get it, it doesnt MATTER how simple or complex the operation is, thats not the point, the point is that youre fantasizing about autonomously functioning masses when half those massess are a stones throw way from saying "fuck you" to your little pet project and completely tearing the whole thing down. an anarchistic society depends ENTIRELY on the wills of the people all lining up perfectly, and there will never be a moment where you arent at risk of peoples wills going off in different directions, assuming you can actually get them all on the same path in the first place without using authoritarianism and defeating the purpose of a stateless classless socialist movement

[Anonymous No.18946631]

>>18946610
4chan is a good place to come to when I like to laugh. Even your overlords when asked in public would feign ignorance and give some idol pleasantries. I hope you find peace

[Anonymous No.18946648]

>>18946631
>People are exploited because they work for a living
>Fucking people would laugh in your face if you told them earning for a living is exploitative
You don't go outside a lot do you

[Anonymous No.18946668]

>>18946621
woah. communism and anarchism are not interchangeable so I don't know why you have used that word. And to answer your second point I think you have a fundamental misconception of communism. It is not a single form of government or state that you can point to and say this is communism. "Communism is a process" A revolution does not take place and boom the next day the country is communist. Thats not how it works they have to do what China is doing and what Russia failed to do. Although the methodology is debatable and is still being debated within the CCP. I am also of the opinion that authoritarianism(aka force) coupled with education if used by the proletariat to remove the bourgeoisie is not a bad thing and should be encouraged.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946681]

>>18946499
>Liberalism’ll do it. This time just pretend there’s no state

[Anonymous No.18946685]

>>18946395
>>18946446
>butterfly tripfag reveals xirs true form

[Anonymous No.18946699]

>>18946648
This is how deep rooted Western propaganda and ideology is. You believe that a system where you see a mere penance of the value your labor creates you aren't being exploited? In a system where corporations lobby the governing bodies to reduce worker freedoms and rights you aren't being exploited? Easier to fool an idiot than convince them that they have been fooled.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946716]

>>18946558
>Liberal hippie plants
>anarchists
Read a whole book with them in it. It damns the movement, but things may be changing.

>>18946618
Nothing yet. You want me to keep you posted?

>>18946685
Hmm? That’s Fredy Perlman. A damn fine author.

[Anonymous No.18946731]

>>18946648
not everyone that works is exploited, true. this is why the term "labour aristocracy" was coined

[Anonymous No.18946745]

>>18946699
>a mere penance of the value your labor creates
surplus value doesn't exist, they are remunerated in line with the precise market value of their labor.

[Anonymous No.18946746]

>>18946668
see>>18946446

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946760]

>>18946621
Millions of years humans lived without this sociopathic system. There are indeed other ways to live, better ways to live

[Anonymous No.18946769]

>>18946411
Marxism confirmed for libertarianism

[Anonymous No.18946797]

Start by removing yourself from the gene pool.

Leftism does not work.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18946798]

>>18946769
Marx split the FI over this statist stage bullshit.

[Anonymous No.18946816]

>>18946596
Not even wrong

[Anonymous No.18946831]

>>18946760
>Millions of years humans lived without this sociopathic system.
...because they lived in small tribal communities with small tribal hierarchies instead. what kind of point are you even trying to make here?

[Anonymous No.18946861]

>>18946699
>Sign a contract on a wage you negotiated
>FUCK CAN'T YOU SEE THE WESTERN IMPERIALISTS ARE EXPLOITING YOU!?!?!?
and
>Corporations
Corporations are made of workers themselves, and they have every right to fight for their political representation. Just because the workers' are too stupid to do it themselves doesn't mean the corporations are "exploiting" you by participating in a system anyone can.

[Anonymous No.18946873]

>>18946745
>"Surplus Value doesn't exist."
This is why arguing with people who haven't read theory is entertaining.
Surplus is that which is above that required to sustain production. So in an agricultural community, surplus is the food grown which is above that required to feed everyone. The rest is traded for other things.

So Marxist surplus value is this: In a factory, or rather in an industrial society, surplus value is the production of commodities (things sold on the market) which is above that required to sustain the production of commodities. So, it is profit and other forms of income and payments which are not necessary to sustain production.

>they are remunerated in line with the precise market value of their labor.
You have to be trolling man.I wont even answer this fully as its so obvious but please ask yourself how is the market value of labor determined and who determines it?

[Anonymous No.18946877]

>>18946831
>Global-homo corportatist is better than small tribal communities that maintain their culture, heritage and family ties
Is this is really the own you think it is? Even more so, most people back then could be nomads since it was not possible to develop private property since the population density made it impossible. That's not really the case now with all the people here and technology.

[Anonymous No.18946898]

>>18946581
Your guys swept from victory to victory and you're still seething while trying to sound menacing. Go get the commies! Go get 'em! This regime you're living in and which is traveling along a downward spiral like Nine Inch Nails is what your guys created. The really blackpilled reactionaries at least have an ethos that isn't acting like a dumb idiot.

https://youtu.be/hhvza-_2ox8

[Anonymous No.18946917]

>>18946873
>This is why arguing with people who haven't read theory
Your "theory" is just sophistry. Nobody has to care how you value things. Everything you're typing is sophistry.
>Surplus is that which is above that required to sustain production.
What the fuck does this mean? Do you really think people make things just for the sake of production... they would go out of business from input costs alone. They have to meet demand.
>surplus is the food grown which is above that required to feed everyone.
Its literally impossible to know how much food an entire population needs to eat, retard. Even then, food is a perishable good. You make more of it in case you lose it. This works for a lot of commodities, especially ones that required to sustain life. You guys are stupid - you really think you can plan an entire economy to meet everyone's "needs" which is impossible only the consumer knows what they want. Figuring that out requires experimentation through market forces.
>So, it is profit and other forms of income and payments which are not necessary to sustain production.
People would just make food out the kindness of their own heart with anyone any incentive. That makes a lot of sense; that's why it didn't work in China or the USSR - people just died from starvation. You really are dumb.

[Anonymous No.18946922]

>>18946861
What kind of circular logic is this? Surely you see the discrepancy between people having to work to buy things that they need to live and claiming that there is a choice in choosing to work and signing a contract. In this capitalist society all the means of productions are owned by capitalists and therefore the majority of the proletariat have to exchange their labor in order to survive. Not to mention that the alternative you provide is that they should join the club and work there way up the hierarchy so they too can enjoy the albeit small benefits of being part of the system because lets face it. 99% of people will never reach the pinnacle, ceo positions etc.

Also just because corporations are made up of workers means that their political choices are in the interests of the average worker. The whole point of corporations is to make as much profit as possible. So what would their political outlook look like I wonder?

Anyways, You don't seem like someone who reads at all. Even my capitalist friends wouldn't make arguments that simple and easily refutable go read a fucking book then come back to this board.

[Anonymous No.18946923]

>>18946873
Why do you assume that a worker has a right to the surplus value of their labour? This is obviously retarded.

[Anonymous No.18946924]

>>18946873
I meant to say surplus value extraction doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.18946928]

>>18946434
The Chinese are more free then you, the ideological poison you’re controlled by prevents you from seeing this

[Anonymous No.18946930]

>>18946798
how can i read communism when every post you make drives me closer to the edge?

[Anonymous No.18946936]

>>18946873
>how is the market value of labor determined and who determines it?
negotiation between employers, workers (or their representatives) and the state. AKA the market

[Anonymous No.18946941]

>>18946877
what the fuck are you talking about dude? are you illiterate? i didn't say or even imply that

[Anonymous No.18946943]

The way marxists refer simply to 'theory' has to be the most obnoxious, solipsistic verbal tic in any political dialect

[Anonymous No.18946947]

>>18946930
>drives me closer to the edge
AND I'M ABOUTTA BREAK

[Anonymous No.18946948]

>>18946898
>Capitalism will collapse any day now says increasingly nervous communist for millionth time since 1865

[Anonymous No.18946952]

>>18946446
>le not real communism
Chinese politicians study the works and history of Marxism, adapting it to contemporary problems, THEY are the ones with authority to claim what real communism is, not some random bitch on 4chan

[Anonymous No.18946954]

>>18946873
It's just erroneous to assume that the "value" of profit is derived entirely from workers labor and that they are somehow being ripped off or having more taken from them than they receive. If their labor was worth more, they would leave and go to a place where the price for their labor was higher.

[Anonymous No.18946958]

>>18946499
China

[Anonymous No.18946961]

>>18946943
And then you actually read the stuff they're referring to and it's always intentionally impenetrable gobbledygook.

[Anonymous No.18946968]

>>18946873
>This is why arguing with people who haven't read theory is entertaining.
Meanwhile you haven't read an ounce of theory yourself.

Learn basic economics before you discuss economics.

Leftists are mentally challenged.

[Anonymous No.18946970]

>>18946948
Yes, all of your wisdom is showing the power of performance while global poverty spikes and the one major economy not to completely fuck up is... hmm

https://youtu.be/9DOauvmg4Kg?t=1444

[Anonymous No.18946976]

>>18946958
…is authoritarian capitalist.

[Anonymous No.18946978]

>>18946970
Capitalism cures poverty. Leftism creates it.

[Anonymous No.18946984]

>>18946941
You literally defended globo-homo corporatist capitalism because anarchism would maintain blood bonds between family members and ethnicites as evil "hiearchies." Imagine having such a worthless definition of "hierarchy" that it also means things like conditional, family love.
>See, tribal relations can't be anarchistic because you're "forced" into loving your family and perserving your culture by taking care of them their natural roles
You niggers are stupid

[Anonymous No.18946986]

>>18946515
capitalism has unironically killed more and I’m not a communist

[Anonymous No.18946990]

>>18946976
Okay let's do that and throw Jeff Bezos in prison.

>No that's socialism

[Anonymous No.18946994]

If you even think in terms of "capitalism" as a coherent thing then you're mentally fogged to begin with. It's just as nebulous and existentially questionable as "communism" to begin with. This whole debate to me honestly seems like the early 20th century version of what we have now arguing about Biden vs Trump.

[Anonymous No.18946996]

>>18946986
>private ownership and freedom has killed more people than communism

[Anonymous No.18947003]

>>18946970
>Capitalism was lowering poverty until COVID
>Capitalism bad because of natural disasters
Lmfao, COVID interrupting capitalist production increases poverty - no shit. All that productivity that would have came without COVID hitting would have lowered it - according to your own fucking graph. You guys have to be solipsists. There's no way.

[Anonymous No.18947008]

>>18947003
>You guys have to be solipsists. There's no way.
I have yet to meet a leftist who isn't. Mises said it very well, these retards are just taking out their anger because their lack of success and/or incompetency is publicly displayed in a capitalist society.

[Anonymous No.18947010]

>>18946986
You are unironically retarded. Communism claimed 100s of millions of deaths in the 20th century. Meanwhile, how many died in the US?

[Anonymous No.18947019]

>>18947003
You know where most of that actual poverty reduction in the world is occurring, right? It's not happening in countries run by economists who kiss the feet of your Yoda, Milton Friedman. Different ideas, different plans, different results. And in the United States, political leadership is accountable to corporate power, not the other way around. Recent events have just underscored that fact.

[Anonymous No.18947023]

>>18947008
Mises was pretty smart for his time - even commies like Bukharin said he presented the biggest threat to their school

[Anonymous No.18947027]

>>18947019
I'm going to presume you're going to say China, which is using capitalism.

[Anonymous No.18947028]

All commies are subhumans

[Anonymous No.18947029]

>>18946984
>You literally defended globo-homo corporatist capitalism
nigger WHAT? are you high? all i did was point out to that delusional retard that most humans lived in communities with hierarchies and authority figures, which is objectively true, nothing more or less

youre fucked in the head bro

[Anonymous No.18947032]

can no longer believe i share this planet with people who think like this.

[Anonymous No.18947033]

>>18947019
>You know where most of that actual poverty reduction in the world is occurring, right?
Try to read just an ounce of history please.

>>18947023
It's incredible, books written in the first half of the 1900s are more insightful than most things ever since. And his work is extremely relevant still today, almost 100 years after first being published.

[Anonymous No.18947035]

>>18947019
You're gonna claim China is "socialist" when they literally decollectivized the peoples' communes, co-operatives, allowed American foreign investment and free trade after being an auterky shit hole. When their party is filled with billionaries, when they have higher wealth inequality than the United States, when they literally took away all the rice bowl programs from the Maoist era and banned strikes. Like, you're so dumb. "Socialist China" with its WTO, IMF and World Bank membership bro lmfao

[Anonymous No.18947050]

>>18947029
>in communities with hierarchies and authority figures,
Absolutely worthless definition - you think its hierarchical for tribes to look out for their kin, and for fathers to lead the household. And that this is apparently no different than what we see now - mass immigration and cultural genocide. You really owned the anarchists by defending neoliberalism by saying decentralized tribal communities are no different than the modern state that forces your to get your children to be brainwashed by critical race theory and social justice warriors forces consumerist decadence on them

[Anonymous No.18947053]

>>18946917
You aren't reading to understand it looks like youre reading to argue. I guess I will dumb it down even more.
>What the fuck does this mean? Do you really think people make things just for the sake of production... they would go out of business from input costs alone. They have to meet demand.
Reread what I wrote. And make sure you understand what definition i am using for the word production. Its as if your purposely being obtuse.
>Its literally impossible to know how much food an entire population needs to eat, retard. Even then, food is a perishable good. You make more of it in case you lose it. This works for a lot of commodities, especially ones that required to sustain life. You guys are stupid - you really think you can plan an entire economy to meet everyone's "needs" which is impossible only the consumer knows what they want. Figuring that out requires experimentation through market forces.
Woah there. I think economic planning like that in regards to communism is stupid. Thats one of the many reasons Russia failed overall. I agree economic planning is stupid. Look to China for a modern day example. capitalist modes of production used to benefit the proletariat. In Xi Jingpings book he talks about this much better than I can but also realises how they as a country need to do better in regards to moving towards a "truer" socialism free of these capitalist modes
That is an entirely different conversation one which cant be spoken about in depth on a mongolian basket weaving forum.

>People would just make food out the kindness of their own heart with anyone any incentive. That makes a lot of sense; that's why it didn't work in China or the USSR - people just died from starvation. You really are dumb.
I didnt say any of that and its like you are purposely misconstruing my points. Anyways the USSR is a unique example and is a result of stupid management and stupid policies which you cant simply ascribe to some arbitrary concept you refer to as "communism". China on the other hand you are wrong about. I don't know where you got this idea of starving from but please do some more research beyond the western funded place you receive "knowledge" from.>>18946954


>>18946923
Re read your sentence lol. "value of their labour" Repeating capitalist talking points like you hope to own a company one day. Keep grinding I believe in you.

>>18946936
This is good you are not totally done for. Now ask yourself considering the value people place on money in our society who holds more power in this situation? workers, employers or the state? Hint its the fucking employers. Just look at how corporations control laws in the US through lobbying. Now using what you have just learnt go back to my post re read it and come up with a better rebuttal.

[Anonymous No.18947057]

>>18946574
>>18946581
You fools defending American empire are traitors. There are over 800 American military bases globally. The Chinese built their only international naval base in east Africa and western media chimps out. It’s absolutely clear who the global aggressor is, who the one spreading war and globohomoism is. This empire is worthy of no patriotic american’s defense, it is completely antithetical to our founders values, and instead completely in line with the British empire who we rebelled against. You’ve forgotten what it means to be American.

[Anonymous No.18947073]

>>18947053
>the absolute state of leftists
Learn basic economics.

[Anonymous No.18947078]

>>18946596
China is obviously hierarchical, and that hierarchy is determined by merit, meanwhile in the anglosphere the hierarchy is determined by one’s ability to get away with financial fraud

[Anonymous No.18947080]

>>18947053
Nah it's the state that has more power. Also you just completely ignored the point about how surplus value extraction isn't real and that excess value doesn't get stripped from laborers. If anything it come from the entrepreneur who puts all the pieces together and drives the project from its inception, laborers are no different from machines or cattle in this equation. Marxists would understand their own movement and what they're trying to accomplish much better if they read Machiavelli and Pareto.

[Anonymous No.18947084]

>>18946877
>>Global-homo corportatist is better than small tribal communities that maintain their culture, heritage and family ties
Yes it is. Next question?

[Anonymous No.18947087]

>>18947050
dude what the fuck lmao why do you keep going on huge rants that have nothing to do with what i said? i think its hierarchical to have a hierarchy, i dont think having a hierarchy is the same as globohomo and i never even REMOTELY implied that, i dont even know hwy the fuck youre bringing up globohomo neoliberalism at all. where the fuck are you getting this from? this is the most bizarre interaction ive ever had on this website. you people are so fucked lol

[Anonymous No.18947097]

>>18947053
>Just look at how corporations control laws in the US through lobbying
That's only one form of power leaking, there are much bigger forms of power leaking through the government i.e. the academy and its nexus of think tanks.

[Anonymous No.18947101]

>>18946395
This thread is now infested with CCP shills and wumaos.

[Anonymous No.18947106]

>>18946668
Good post

[Anonymous No.18947110]

>>18946968
Man said basic economics. Westerns in all their chauvinism assert that the economics they created for their capitalist society which is an important distinction to make, is somehow the be all and end all in regards how to run a successful economy. At least refute one of my points like the others than just saying learn economics. I have a fucking degree in it man.

>>18946954
Accidentally tagged you. Anyways thats not what erroneous means and your second point only makes sense in a fictional capitalist society where people can just up and leave to another job that pays more and treats them well very conveniently ignoring the glaringly obvious facts that workers do not get to determine the value of their labor. If they try the government gets lobbied by the corporations who own them. Look what happened to unions in America.

>>18946948
I look forward to the day the American Empire collapses. A country build on genocide and slave labor. Not to mention the exploitation of workers. 2 centuries from now America will cease to exist. Collapse is inevitable at this point.

>>18946943
>>18946961
Admitting you don't read something you're so vehemently against. Niggas on /lit/ do not read LOL

[Anonymous No.18947115]

>>18946395

[Anonymous No.18947116]

>>18947101
get btfo’d bitch

[Anonymous No.18947127]

>>18946978
>>18947003
Just wait for the money to trickle down bro. I promise it will trickle down bro. Whats that you can't afford basic health insurance? You want to government you pay taxes to, to actually spend them on the population? Get a job you fucking commie!

[Anonymous No.18947131]

>>18946877
>Global-homo and not globohomo
Looks like you need to brush up on your slang Chang. Your not earning your Xi Jinpooh sheckels

[Anonymous No.18947136]

>>18947110
>is somehow the be all and end all in regards how to run a successful economy
Can you point to any other way on how to successfully run an economy?

Leftism doesn't work, we have already established this. The only succesful countries are capitalist countries.

You have a degree in economics, yet you know nothing about economics. Well if that isn't a proof of the current state of this world, I don't know what is.

[Anonymous No.18947144]

>>18947101
Does the CCP have any organic support they don't pay for, except among tranny tankies?

Imagine all the money they put into online astroturf to manipulate dumb westerners, and the best they manage to pull to their side is terminally online trannies. Take them! Enjoy!

[Anonymous No.18947147]

>>18947110
>Accidentally tagged you. Anyways thats not what erroneous means and your second point only makes sense in a fictional capitalist society where people can just up and leave to another job that pays more and treats them well very conveniently ignoring the glaringly obvious facts that workers do not get to determine the value of their labor. If they try the government gets lobbied by the corporations who own them. Look what happened to unions in America.
YOU KEEP IGNORING THE POINT that surplus value extraction does not exist, you immediately switch and start talking about other different ways in which workers are immiserated to avoid having to address this central point. There is no surplus extraction of value from workers, therefore organising workers in a political movement will *NOT* allow to have "more" of the value that they create. End of story.

[Anonymous No.18947149]

>>18947127
Can you name some of the most important contributors to the theory of trickle down economics?

If you can't afford health insurance you have the government to thank for that, they have driven up prices. Taxation is theft.

[Anonymous No.18947155]

>>18947116
Retard. You're not meant to out yourself that easily. Are chinks unironically this dumb?

[Anonymous No.18947157]

>>18946954
>If their labor was worth more, they would leave and go to a place where the price for their labor was higher.
Or you could start a revolution

[Anonymous No.18947167]

>>18947157
Then the price of their labor would be even lower because businesses can't function in a politically unstable state dealing with a rebellion.

[Anonymous No.18947171]

>>18946668
>xi will turn over the means of production any day now, just two more weeks bros

[Anonymous No.18947173]

I really wish commies would just understand elite theory and understand their own place in the world and recognize that they use this movement as a means of trying to ascend the elite hierarchy. They don't give a shit about muh workers at the end of the day, they just want to become new elites, and that is the only thing that has ever and will ever matter to them.

[Anonymous No.18947174]

>>18947157
If they genuinely have the will sure. Revolutions can be ironically pretty lucrative for some richoids

[Anonymous No.18947188]

Letists: labor theory of value is real
Also leftists: we need to have minimum wages

[Anonymous No.18947204]

How can something as braindead as Marxism even exist

[Anonymous No.18947207]

>>18946395
is that adam friedland?

[Anonymous No.18947208]

>>18947204
The median IQ is 100, all you need to know.

[Anonymous No.18947237]

>>18947101
As opposed to American Empire shills?

>>18947136
You pose a very good question. But to answer that I would first have to give my defintion or opinion on what a good economy. A good economy is one that meets the needs of all its people. Now does any western country do that successfully? No. Poverty is growing in the west the poor are getting poorer etc. However capitalists would look to the total amount of money being made by a country and say yes that is a good economy. If a country has people suffering due to lack of capital how can that economy be good?

>>18947147
To answer your point on surplus value extraction please explain because I have explained a couple of times already and your only rebuttal is no you are wrong. So please go ahead and explain

[Anonymous No.18947244]

>>18946668
>"Communism is a process"
I couldnt have put it better myself. communism is a perpetual process, a carrot on a stick. the utopia is perpetually just over that hill, you just have to trust the state and keep working in your sweat shop. paradise awaits you!

actually i could put it better. communism isnt a process, its a religion.

[Anonymous No.18947246]

>>18946395
>that OP pic
Unintentional self-parody

[Anonymous No.18947286]

>>18947237
>A good economy is one that meets the needs of all its people
This will never be the case, anywhere, ever. If you have a degree in economics you obviously know this already.

[Anonymous No.18947297]

>>18947244
criticises communism using sweat shops as an example...
I mean the jokes write themselves desu.
Surely you see the discrepancy between defending capitalism then criticisng communism for using sweatshops...

[Anonymous No.18947311]

>>18947286
When I say needs I mean basic needs such as food healthcare education etc. Just in case you're being obtuse on purpose. Will never be the case.Okay so why does the US try so hard to regime change countries who attempt? Its okay I know you wont have a good answer but please enlighten me.

[Anonymous No.18947338]

>>18947297
>criticises communism using sweat shops as an example..

whats wring with doing that? the person i was replying to was citing actual communist nations that utilize sweat shops and severaly lack labour rights and regulations as examples of what communism should be, of course im bring up the sweat shops, why wouldnt I? im genuinely curious to hear your logic and why you decided to post this and i await your reply

[Anonymous No.18947343]

>>18947311
>When I say needs I mean basic needs such as food healthcare education etc
Again, this is never going to be reality anywhere.

Why? It's quite simple. All humans are very different in every way imaginable. The only thing we share are instincts deeply ingrained into us. How are you possibly going to provide food, healthcare, education and "etc" whatever that is, speaking of being obtuse, to every single person? It's impossible.

By far the best system is free market capitalism, where people are free to spend their resources as they wish. That system has brought the most prosperity to people and will continue to do so in perpetuity.

[Anonymous No.18947397]

>>18947311
Hegemony, would be the same shit if this was a mostly communist wirld and certain areas decided to do otherwise

[Anonymous No.18947406]

>>18947144
>>18947155
That the best you’ve got? When confronted with criticism you can’t refute you retreat to, “oh they’re just shills.” Weak.

[Anonymous No.18947407]

>>18947237
I cannot explain it any more simply than " There is no surplus extraction of value from workers, therefore organising workers in a political movement will *NOT* allow to have "more" of the value that they create." If you don't understand this, I can't help you. Extraction is simply asserted you Marx, and by you, it has no existence in reality. It is not real. It doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.18947414]

>>18947311
>Okay so why does the US try so hard to regime change countries who attempt? Its okay I know you wont have a good answer but please enlighten me.

KEK why are you acting so smug as if this ia difficult question to answer? The US nation builds because if they dont someone else will and they will lose influence, and that someone will gain influence, and by extension, power and leverage

how the FUCK could you not only not know this, but act smugly like you just check mated with such a question? this is a whole new level of ignorance

[Anonymous No.18947429]

>>18946976
…is socialist.

[Anonymous No.18947448]

>>18947115
why does this look like a marxists.org page lmao

[Anonymous No.18947453]

>>18946978
Nope, the industrial revolution led to tons of poverty until the government intervened and granted worker’s rights. The US has been partially socialistic since then

[Anonymous No.18947458]

After spending this sunday evening I am convinced that American Propagandists are some of the smartest people on this planet. The acceptance of capitalism and the straight up denial that there could even possibly be a better alternative has been fascinating. Anywho good night and death to the American Empire.

#FREEYB

[Anonymous No.18947463]

>>18946395

[Anonymous No.18947465]

>>18947453
People all over the world risked their lives to get to the U.S. you absolute mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.18947467]

>>18946519
>ideology so good it cant hold up to an intelligence agency
lel, tranny cope

[Anonymous No.18947469]

>>18946922
>Surely you see the discrepancy between people having to work to buy things that they need to live and claiming that there is a choice in choosing to work and signing a contract. In
Imagine typing all these words just to say people shouldn't work to survive. You're just a bum.
> In this capitalist society all the means of productions are owned by capitalists
Yes and so what? Capitalists are workers; if you don't want to be a worker - just become self employed. You're just looking for excuses to be a parasite. Get a life

[Anonymous No.18947471]

>>18947458
Consider that you're in a cult

[Anonymous No.18947473]

>>18946996
Freedom for international finance to commit fraud on a massive scale, pillage third world country’s resources causing starvation and perpetual war, yes it’s been a blight on humanity causing untold amounts of death. And China has private ownership dumby

[Anonymous No.18947484]

>>18947458
>not embracing communism means you are straight up in denial that there could even possibly be a better alternative to American capitalism

[Anonymous No.18947498]

>>18946996
The American believes they are free. Lord have mercy on their souls.

>>18947471
>>18947467
YB better

[Anonymous No.18947499]

>>18947473
That is jews and central banking not a free market economy bub and your retarded solution is to give them even more power. Bravo, we got us a real galaxy brain here
https://esotericawakening.com/the-scam-and-how-it-works

[Anonymous No.18947505]

>>18947473
Couldn't have said it better myself, you got btfo by >>18947499

[Anonymous No.18947507]

>>18947458
>You want to own property, and not give it to globohomblins gender studies majors like me?
>Must be the American propaganda bro
No, not really.

[Anonymous No.18947512]

>>18947010
That number is Cold War propaganda no even western historian today defends. Meanwhile the US has killed millions in war. And as far as domestically ever heard of the opioid epidemic? Millions dead and families destroyed for profit and there’s been no justice. Certainly there was death and starvation in communism but hundreds of millions were lifted out of poverty. Meanwhile for all those killed in the US what has improved? Our country been in decline since the baby boom.

[Anonymous No.18947515]

>>18947027
*socialism

[Anonymous No.18947519]

>>18947512

[Anonymous No.18947520]

>>18947028
The result of capitalism in the US has been atomization and trannydom. Who’s really the subhuman here?

[Anonymous No.18947523]

>>18947512
>That number is Cold War propaganda n
No need to continue this conversation when don't even accept basic facts.

[Anonymous No.18947526]

>>18947458
This thread has made me embrace pogroms. We need a lot of them get rid of all these fucking socialists man I swear the god

[Anonymous No.18947531]

>>18947512
They won't listen. If its not the numbers it will be something else. I think most comrades have to realise the average person from birth has only ever had negative information about communism fed to them from birth. And the majority of people don't like to change their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.18947536]

>>18947526
>>18947523
yb better

[Anonymous No.18947554]

>>18947531
>grow up in first world western country
>read about the horrors of communism
>have people explain how it was to live through it
Yeah I wonder why no one wants to go back to being genocided

[Anonymous No.18947560]

>>18947523
The 100 million death toll just isn’t real man I’m sorry, a cursory look into modern scholarship disproves this, but you only see information reflective of your libertarian worldview— such is the nature of ideology.

[Anonymous No.18947573]

I stopped being a Marxist when I learned Marx was in favor of free trade. He's literally just a liberal.

[Anonymous No.18947631]

>>18947560
So whats the actual number?

[Anonymous No.18947641]

>>18947531
It’s true, while the industrial revolution led to a dialectical shift in some countries that allowed revolution to take place, the bourgeoise in the anglosphere reacted with the creation of the sociological field of Public Relations (or just propaganda.) The aim of this was to destroy class consciousness and grant citizens small instances of socialism to abet the issues wrought by the industrial revolution. This style of socialism was called fabianism. Then stuff like consumerism also diluted class consciousness.

When people use the internet today they can discover tons of information confirming their pre-existing worldview. This bolsters their ideological certitude. The result is a feedback loop where people get stuck in an echo chamber, becoming very hostile to information conflicting with their ideology, obviously such people arguing against them are retarded, because all information they find on the internet confirms their position. The way we access information is not at all conducive to grasping the actual truth of things.

Therefore not only is a communist vanguard unable to take hold, NO opposition to the status quo is able to materialize. Therefore, realistically, I only see change possible when this system breaks down sufficiently. That will take a while tho.

[Anonymous No.18947668]

>>18947641
You sound extremely dumb, and possibly underage

[Anonymous No.18947671]

>>18947554
>THOSE PEOPLE WERE FILTHY FARMERS WHO WOULDN'T SURRENDER THEIR PRODUCE TO THE RED ARMY TO BE USED FOR THE COMMON GOOD (ie. shipped to Moscow while rural areas starve en masse) THEY DESERVED TO DIE REEEEEEEEEEEEEE LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE

[Anonymous No.18947688]

>>18947641
Youre not immune to propaganda

[Anonymous No.18947762]

Marxism is just a label that dykes use on twitter to signal their mental illness. How is this any different with the Incel freaks here?

[Anonymous No.18947781]

>>18946928
dengist begone

[Anonymous No.18947790]

Fucking scum

[Anonymous No.18947792]

>>18947073
stop reading that sowell book and read something serious, like pic related

[Anonymous No.18947822]

>>18947631
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin

[Anonymous No.18947827]

>>18947035
Read Deng

[Anonymous No.18947836]

bait thread

[Anonymous No.18947862]

>>18947792
>read about this failure
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.18947866]

>>18947171
That would obviously be greatly destabilizing, the point is to work towards that. To rush the process is anarchism. Progress is being made tho, reading the five year plans demonstrates this.

[Anonymous No.18947890]

honestly though, why in gods name should i become a communist or anarchist or whatever if there is still no actual viable road map to moving from a capitalist to a communist country? without a real tangible plan, you're literally just asking me to put some dictator in power with no actual plan.
at least fascism has a plan, monarchy has a plan, every non-leftist ideology has plan. with leftism its just "oh well i guess we won the revolution and now these guys have supreme power and thats that"
theres no expectations or rubric or anything like that by which we can judge the government by, it literally just becomes "the state just does whatever it wants, dont worry, the workers paradise will come soon" which 9/10 times means shitty discount fascism without any of the actual good stuff that fascist ideologies bring to the table

you have fucking retards like butters and every other commie subhuman running around screeching "bro JUST IMAGINE HOW GOOD AND DIFFERENT THINGS COULD BE THEY COULD BE LIKE TOTALLY GOOD BROOOOO JUST IMAGINE BROOOOOOOOOO" and that seems to be the extent of what leftists here have to offer when people critique their ideas and demand an explanation for how this is meant to be a real viable movement and not just some hippie day dream about perpetually passing a joint around a sweet drum circle and living haply ever after

what the FUCK do you commie retards expect from others when this is all you have to offer??????

[Anonymous No.18947895]

>>18947173
Elite theory is great stuff, I have no problem with it. We should have good elites who gain power through a meritocratic process instead of lies and greed. China has the former.

[Anonymous No.18947900]

>>18947204
Because it works

[Anonymous No.18947904]

>>18947890
step 1 take power
step 2 ???
step 3 communism

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18947942]

>>18946952
They themselves don’t claim to be doing communism.
They say they’re working towards it. Read the thread first. You’re out of your element

[Anonymous No.18947943]

>>18947343
Lmao this is retarded, poverty exists cuz… people are different? What a cope. Look at Denmark or Sweden, hardly any poverty.

[Anonymous No.18947948]

>>18947942
>they arent doing communism they are just working on doing communism

I cant believe you thought this was a good defense

[Anonymous No.18947953]

>>18947465
and?

[Anonymous No.18947956]

>>18947943
This post is so American I can't even

[Anonymous No.18947971]

>>18947499
Chinese banks operate according to their own socialist rules, not to those of globalism.

[Anonymous No.18947977]

>>18947943
denmark is a very capitalist economy with no minimum wage

[Anonymous No.18947979]

gay thread for gay niggers. you already know what i put in the option field

[Anonymous No.18947986]

>>18947526
I’m not afraid of some fat boomer

[Anonymous No.18948013]

>>18947890
Look at the results of fascism. It destroyed the nations it took hold in. Meanwhile China is doing great. And even though communism collapsed in the USSR, Russia is still doing well.

[Anonymous No.18948019]

>>18947942
>They themselves don’t claim to be doing communism. They say they’re working towards it.
Yea they’re not anarchists

[Anonymous No.18948041]

>>18948013
china is prospering because of a mixture of the fascist principles they adopted mixed with absolutely ruthless capitalism operated with no regard for human lives, including those of their own people

[Anonymous No.18948223]

>>18947971
Chinese banks answer to the IMF and BIS you fucking retard. If they cant exchange their currency and operate by UCC trade laws how do you think they will trade with other nations? Stop trying to act like you know what you are talking about when you clearly dont.

[Anonymous No.18948279]

>>18948013
China is literally a national socialist nation, not communist. You are fucking stupid and dont understand any of this beyond surface level labels. China has private corporations and stock market ffs. Why are communists so fucking stupid?

[Anonymous No.18948305]

>>18948279
sorry but you are objectively incorrect, they have incorporated some basic fascist structuring into their government but they are not national socialist

[Anonymous No.18948312]

read these, become communist.

[Anonymous No.18948323]

>Arguing with communists
>Not just embracing pogroms against them

[Anonymous No.18948500]

>>18947977
>denmark is a very capitalist economy with no minimum wage
And they’re also quite socialist. The point of Marx’s dialectical materialism is not simply that capitalism is destroyed and then there’s socialism then communism. Rather, the previous mode of production remains but is improved upon, to the point where it is fundamentally different. So there’s still capitalism, but there’s also socialism to regulate it.

[Anonymous No.18948507]

>>18948312
Where’s this list from?

[Anonymous No.18948513]

>>18948500
well at least we can finally settle that national socialism is indeed socialist

[Anonymous No.18948528]

>>18948513
You won’t see me disagreeing with this. It’s objectively true. The only people who disagree are retards like butterfly

[Anonymous No.18948541]

>>18948223
Answer to ≠ works with

[Anonymous No.18948569]

>>18948528
well im glad to see at least someone agrees that socialist thought is not limited to waving a magic wand and turning capitalism into communism

[Anonymous No.18948575]

>>18948507
my brain

my calibre library, i just download them from libgen

[Anonymous No.18948603]

https://terebess.hu/english/maotse1.html

[Anonymous No.18948610]

how does /lit/ feel about labour backed currency?

https://federsgenius.wordpress.com/tag/labour-based-currency/

[Anonymous No.18948618]

>>18948041
>china is prospering because of a mixture of the fascist principles
The insistence on China being fascist is just silly. Mao, Deng, and Xi talk about Marxism all throughout their writings and it’s reflected in their governance. You keep asserting their fascist but provide no examples lol.
>ruthless capitalism operated with no regard for human lives
Already shown not to be the case itt
>>18948279
>China is literally a national socialist nation
Well there are socialist, and they are quite nationalistic, but they’re not nazis (despite what US libs say.)

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948633]

>>18947948
It’s not a defense. It’s a fact. This is what tankies believe. Not me.
They’re doing fascism as far as I’m concerned.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948642]

>>18948618
To amend what I just said. China gives their little millionaire entrepreneurs some leeway, so they’re not as “corporatist” as the land of deception USA. It’s a shade of fascism. And they’re winning at capitalism. A dirty game.

[Anonymous No.18948655]

>>18948633
yes it is a defense, youre very clearly implying that they are not communist just because they are engaged in the process of Marxist dialectical materialism and not magically arriving at the theoretical end stage over night

im sorry but youre seriously so far out of your element here, you really really have a lot to learn before you can adequately engage in discourse about politics and economics

[Anonymous No.18948662]

>>18948642
>they’re not as “corporatist” as the land of deception USA
do you even know what corporatism is? china is MUCH more overtly corperatist than the US. jesus christ butters

[Anonymous No.18948677]

>>18948633
How about neither, and I just take what I want. Why would you be stupid enough to wait for some democratic council to tell you when you should eat, and how much? Just steal what you want, you faggot. God, you fucking socialists are so fucking dumb - worthless bookworm faggots man

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948680]

>>18948655
They are quite clear on this. Their party is the Communist Party, but their politics and economics are not (yet?) moved there. They say they’re doing “socialism with Chinese characters”. They broke away from what the Soviets were doing
>yu ar out of yu element
No no no. It must be you again. Stop swinging your dumb head in here. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Go away.

[Anonymous No.18948689]

Back in the very old days of /lit/ I used to yell at youse young cunts to read some genuinely seminal history. CPGB historians group. Annales. Sheila Fitzpatrick. Today none of you are worth yelling at. Back in my day the shitcunts spamming lit with liquid faeces were a better class of shitcunt: working class.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948692]

>>18948677
Here. Go read this. Enjoy

[Anonymous No.18948694]

>>18948689
Fuck the working class - why do so many people care about of fucking worthless ants? Work is just energy over time - there's no need to attach a pious moralization over it. Workers are replaceable cogs, insects not worthy of pity.

[Anonymous No.18948703]

>>18948680
oh my GOD..................... being a communist doesn't mean you wave a magical wand and end up at the theoretical conclusion of marxs dialectical materialism . china IS communist china IS "real communism". the fact that chinas modes of production have not completely finished evolving does not mean they are not communist

youre a fucking self proclaimed leftist for christ sake how do you not have at least a basic grasp of marxs dialectical materialism and communism

[Anonymous No.18948712]

>>18948703
Its socialism until communism is achieved.

[Anonymous No.18948716]

>>18948703
Communism is for faggots and you should kill yourself. Life is too easy these days, and it just breeds all kinds of profligates

[Anonymous No.18948728]

>>18948712
>you cant call someone who is actively working towards communism, literally currently engaged in a critical process of creating communism, a communist

[Anonymous No.18948731]

how do you respond to the fact that communism has killed so many millions of people mostly through starvation? It seems irresponsible considering capitalism has not starved so many tens of millions? Seems like you are a little kid in your ideology who has read a few books that reaffirm your convictions, instead of challenging them? Also you are a tranny tripfag and I can only imagine the smell? How do you respond?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948734]

>>18948728
Correct.

[Anonymous No.18948735]

>>18948642
>And they’re winning at capitalism.
Yes they’re better at capitalism than the US, they’ve sublated capitalism and moved beyond it. That’s the power of socialism with Chinese characteristics.

[Anonymous No.18948741]

>>18948734
then you arent an anarchist

[Anonymous No.18948753]

>>18948731
>how do you respond to the fact that communism has killed so many millions of people mostly through starvation?
Solipsism - just say the deaths didn't happen, and the CIA invented the numbers. Then, argue it was a utopia where nobody suffered. Easy.

[Anonymous No.18948754]

>>18948734
but Isn't that just an extremely cheap and dishonest way to try and separate communist ideological theory from the realities of trying to actually engage with communism in real life? there is no communism without what the USSR and china did, and they did it for the express purpose of communism, therefor they are objectively communists

[Anonymous No.18948758]

>>18948753
I mean I guess that's possible but what about all those first hand accounts?

[Anonymous No.18948759]

>>18948758
CIA paid them to lie.

[Anonymous No.18948771]

>>18948731
Capitalism absolutely has caused starvation and killed millions. There has also been starvation caused by communism but the millions raised out of poverty outweigh the mistakes made by those governments. So is the war and starvation caused by capitalism outweighed by the good it’s done? You could make a good case it is at least for the 18th and 19th centuries. Marx says as much, that capitalism is an improvement over feudalism. But is the destruction of the last 50 years as caused by the US excusable? I think not. International war has been no benefit to those countries invaded, nor has it been a benefit to the American people, who have seen a continual rise in poverty for decades.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948772]

>>18948741
I am libertarian-socailist (aka anarchist) this describes my political frame of mind, my preferred method for reaching COMMUNISM

[Anonymous No.18948777]

>>18948772
>libertarian
>socialist
Two things that don't go together

[Anonymous No.18948778]

reminder that the reason the OG bolsheviks spent years in prison and exile for spreading marxist ideas and literature in the most reactionary country on the face of the earth, where they had no credible hope of ever taking power, was because they were communists.
i'll hear their thoughts of men who bled and died for what they believed in every time over what some coiffed cunt on 4chan wishes communism would be.

[Anonymous No.18948782]

>>18948771
im sorry but your gamble of an assumption did not pay off here, but the only people who starve to death in capitalist nations in anything close to notable amounts are elderly people living in isolated environments or severely mentally ill people, and even then that is in extremely rare circumstances, and it has nothing to do with some sort of economic barrier between them and their food

people starved by the tens of millions in communist nations because the army literally went town to town and took all the food and left them, and no one had any way to access food, and killed farmers and seized their land and put people in charge of it who could not do the job

[Anonymous No.18948787]

>>18948778
I think I'll reject communism on the basis of the countless victims of communism over the glorification of thugs by some cracker ass Sovietboo larper

[Anonymous No.18948788]

>>18948759
lol dumb Americans paid to spread misinformation could have just adopted communism themselves, saved their money and at least TRIPLED it with sickle bucks.

>>18948771
literally billion+ raised out of poverty because of capitalism sry fren and those numbers are actually verifyable as oppose to your supposed mils good luck proving (against the backdrop of magnitudes more deaths). 100+ million starved in the 20th century at the hands of commies. You are speaking degrees of magnitude out of sync with the reality. No war has ever killed numbers on the same magnitude. AND you think only bad guy capitalist countries go to war? no1 else? US is a super power. Their behaviour is in line with any rational super power. Call them evil, sure, but their actions in other countries are in line with any human power that wants to hold power, has nothing to do with ideology.

You seriously think communist countries are good guy no war here guys??? Much too enlightened over here for that??

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948790]

>>18948777
You again?
No no no no. The “Libertarian” party are LIBERALS they’re old rightwing liberals. They stole the word libertarian from the anarchists. Same shit with Rothbard and the oxymoron “anarcho-capitalism”. They just LIBERALS.

>>18948778
They call their PARTY Communist.
You honestly don’t know how words work?

[Anonymous No.18948791]

>>18946395
literally start with Marx.

after reading him you'll realize every communist ever has gotten it wrong. marx' vision was a harmonization of the world, but his ideas are always -- always -- taken up by grifters.

[Anonymous No.18948793]

>>18948772
>I am Libertarian-socailist
no you arent, wheres your libertarian socialist commune? you cant be a libertarian socialist without literally being an active libertarian socialist just like china cant be communist unless they are literally active communists

also holy shit, im EXTREMELY curious as to what you think the difference is between anarchism and what you perceive as communism, because they are both literaly the same thing, a stateless classless society free of unjust hierarchies where workers own and operate the means of production. saying you are an anarchist, and anarchism is a step towards communism,is fucking retarded

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948794]

>>18948793
ESL?

[Anonymous No.18948797]

>>18948790
>Socialist
>Libertarian
That's like saying you're a big government anarchist - a contradiction in terms. Socialism is not libertarianism.
>>18948793
Communism is just the state owning everything, even your life, for the sake of a Talmudic bureaucracy that saps the life out of you.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948803]

>>18948797
ESL, get out
You intentional dipshit

[Anonymous No.18948808]

>>18948790
>You honestly don’t know how words work?
i know what strained semantics are, but in this case you fail even on your own terms because the bolsheviks called what they had built communism. you may disagree (although i'm quite certain that given the chance you'd have been lenin's running dog like emma goldman was pre-kronstadt) but i've no reason to prioritize what you think over what they thought. they were better-read than you and they had some actual praxis to stand on.

[Anonymous No.18948809]

>>18948803
We really need to pogrom people like you

[Anonymous No.18948813]

>>18948803
>>18948794

LEEEEEL oh shit butters is having a gamer moment

[Anonymous No.18948814]

>>18948808
>Appeal to authority
Nobody cares, commie. All your schemes are retarded. Both you and the butterfly trannie need to be thrown out of a helicopter

[Anonymous No.18948817]

>>18948803
You haven't responded to my question about the tens of millions of dead due to starvation? By this point I'm over it I will take a description of your day to day smell?

[Anonymous No.18948818]

>>18948803
>>18948794
Do it butters, just call them the N word and walk away

[Anonymous No.18948833]

>>18948782
Look into the Indian famines under British rule

[Anonymous No.18948836]

>>18948833
>Look into the government caused famines
That's why people don't want communism though

[Anonymous No.18948837]

>>18948836
They were capitalists retard

[Anonymous No.18948839]

>>18948837
Government made famine - so it was communism.

[Anonymous No.18948841]

>>18948833
indian famines are a consequence of imperialism which can apply to anyone, the point is that people living in a sovereign capitalist nation are not starving to death because capitalism prevents them from accessing food, meanwhile people under communism are

[Anonymous No.18948854]

>>18948841
the transition to capitalism meant that india was practicing large-scale monoculture farming for export and their local economy was now exposed to financial fluctuations in europe for the first time and a decline in demand for wheat on the continent could have disastrous consequences which were not seen prior to colonization when farming was much more self-sufficient at the local level

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948855]

>>18948841
Your mental gymnastics are shameful. Please just go

[Anonymous No.18948859]

>>18948788
The spurious death tolls of communism have by addressed several times itt and the last thread. If you want to challenge your ideology and learn something you can read them. But I know you’re a boomer who’d rather continue gagging on that Cold War propaganda so w/e

[Anonymous No.18948861]

>>18948855
>Thinks liberatarianism can be socialist
>Accusing others of gymnastics
Socialism is against individual liberty and for big government. It can never be libertarian.

[Anonymous No.18948869]

>>18948839
>>18948841
Lmaoooo and here comes the cope

[Anonymous No.18948875]

>>18948855
how is it mental gymnastics? engaging in imperialism and taking resouces from other people, thus those people are without resources, is not at all the same as the conversation we are having here, which is about how effectively an economic system feeds its people


you're going to have an aneurysm soon from impotently sperging out like this

[Anonymous No.18948878]

>>18948791
>USSR? China? Oh that wasn’t REAL communism

[Anonymous No.18948879]

>>18948869
>no argument
guess who is objectively incorrect? you are!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948880]

>>18948861
Saying you were an anarchist in the 1800s was dangerous, so when the socialists split their tactics, the fancy and descriptive “libertarian-socialist” was coined.
I told you how the liberals took it for a political party already.
If you can’t get the words right, we can’t move on to the history. You’re doing all this on purpose, you tiresome twit

[Anonymous No.18948882]

>>18948814
seething!

[Anonymous No.18948883]

>>18948880
Statists pretending they're libertarian doesn't make them libertarian. Socialism was never libertarian. Stop calling yourself something you're not.

[Anonymous No.18948884]

>>18948880
liberals didn't steal anything. i fucking DARE you to prove they "stole it" despite the fact that liberals have been a thing since the 17th century

[Anonymous No.18948910]

>>18948880
Yea, im sorry, but you are so fucking historically illiterate, the liberal american use of "libertarian" comes from 1789 when an English supporter of the american revolution coined the term as a metaphysical opposition to determinism

what a fucking embarrassment you are, every god damn post. you cant touch finger to keyboard without typing out a lie or being wrong about something

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948912]

>>18948883
This is why I made the thread. Learn the history
Or shut the fuck up

>>18948884
That’s just it. They believed in their market capitalism, they’re Democratic Party was a very racist party. The. A slight shift for northern democrats during and after the Roosevelt years. The liberals that wanted to remain racists held on for a time, they called them Dixiecrats, but they converted to the old party of Lincoln. The free market liberals formed a new party. What’re they gonna call themselves? The Neoclassical Liberal Party? Naw. So they stole the name from people they abhor

[Anonymous No.18948918]

>>18948879
>It wasn’t real capitalism!

[Anonymous No.18948921]

>>18948912
see
>>18948910
you are objectively incorrect as always

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948922]

>>18948910
>Reaching into the philosopher terminology bag
Hahaha. Bye.

[Anonymous No.18948928]

madison and jefferson betrayed the vision of locke. real liberalism has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.18948931]

>>18948922
>americans didnt get the term from the prominent supporter of the american revolution who coined the term with a meaning that fits completely with the the way they use the term, they actually stole it from anarchists! of course i cant substantiate this claim in any way, you just have to trust me

this is so fucking sad lol. what are you even trying to achieve here?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18948936]

>>18948928
Ah, but they called themselves liberals, so they must have been doing it the whole time.
Democrats too. 100% real democracy

[Anonymous No.18948945]

alexander betrayed aristotle. real politics has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.18948961]

>>18948945
Aristotle actually orchestrated the poisoning of Alexander. Few know this